Navid Moazzez - Affiliate Marketing Using Virtual Summits

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Floatshark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf.

Hey. Hey there.

Dang it, Joe.

Too fast. Beat you to it again.

Beat me to it again.

I don't know when the first time was.

No, I don't either. This isn't the second time we've tried recording this intro at all. Not at all.

I was trying to be ambiguous.

I'm trying to be transparent.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

Have a good balance here.

There we go. We balance each other out. Joe's tried to lie to you. I'm trying to tell the truth.

No one will ever know what we were recording prior to this.

Never. No, that's true.

Until Matt becomes very truthful.

Who are we talking to today, Joe?

Navid Moassis.

Naveed Moaziz.

This guy's cool.

He's like the grandfather of virtual summits. He's so old and he's younger than us.

That was a joke.

No, but he was really kind of the first one I ever. I mean, we talk about it on the show, but there was other people doing virtual summits. But he was kind of the first one out there teaching it and sort of being the guy out there spreading the word of the power of virtual summits. We actually get into the episode 2015.

Or something like that, or before.

He said 2014 was his first one and him and I connected in 2015 when he was doing, I think, like his second virtual summit.

Yeah. And we get into that here.

Yeah.

Because you had him on a previous podcast and I. I've actually never really hung out or even talked to him. I know you have. Multiple times. Yeah, he's, I guess the grandfather, we can call him that. Of virtual summits. Even though he said there were people doing it prior to in other spaces, but he basically re engineered what they were doing and then packaged it up into a system that he's now like, I don't know how many. I think on this fancy note sheet he said that he's already generated over a hundred thousand email subscribers in the last 12 months alone with just this model.

Yeah.

So I don't know what he's done since he started, but it's a lot.

Yeah, it's true. He's been doing a lot. I know he's definitely made over seven figures doing virtual summits. And, you know, we've had a few episodes in the past where we've touched on virtual summits. We've talked to a few people that part of their business model is doing a lot of virtual Summits. And so with this episode, we decided to kind of approach it from a different angle and talk about the things that people aren't doing with virtual Summits, but they should be. And we talk about things like mini virtual summits, like one day virtual Summits. We talk about using Virtual Summits as an affiliate marketing tool. We talk about putting on evergreen virtual Summits that can just run perpetually, forever and constantly generate sales through summits. We talk about list building and tools and the funnel behind it all and the math behind it and just how.

To grow your influence around, you know, like the Dream 100 concept that you've heard us mention before. It's something Roland Fraser has told us to make for our own show, to bring in more people. Kind of always try to uplevel. That's pretty much what Naveed laid out. He actually referenced the dream 100 and then he says how he uses it. Even if you don't have a big network or where you feel like you want to be, he gives you actionable ways to actually. We all kind of riff on that idea, actually.

Yeah.

So some strategies you can use to grow your network using that concept.

You're going to hear some real time masterminding on this show. At one point, me and Joe and Naveed were sitting around literally throwing out ideas off the top of our head about some of the ways we can use these concepts. And it kind of turned into this impromptu mastermind in the middle of a podcast. And we debated, should we leave this little Mastermind portion in or should we edit it out? And. And we left it in. So you get to hear our little Mastermind Brainstorm sesh about really cool ways to use virtual summits.

So go do it. And I think we are. I know we've talked about virtual summits, so we'll see what version we're going to put out there into the world. We are not totally decided yet.

There is likely some form of virtual summit coming from us, but the key.

Thing is there's multiple forms. So if you think that there's just one type, you're wrong.

Whoa, whoa.

I thought you were going to be aggressive about it.

Ditto. Or what was it?

No, Jinx, Jinx.

You can't talk for the rest of this. We both said it at the same time.

What happens if I do talk?

You're going to get slapped.

Ow.

Was that convincing?

Yes.

You know what you should do?

No.

You should go get the notes for this show also.

Oh, yes, you should.

Yes. If you go to hustleandflowchart.com comp c.

O m P C O M P.

C O M P We actually take notes on these shows, and lately it literally is me and Joe taking notes on these shows. So, you know, we've got team members that help us, but lately Joe and I have actually been listening back and taking our own notes. So you're actually getting notes directly from us.

We actually enjoy the content that we're producing. Go figure.

That's weird.

Yeah, it is weird, huh? I guess you would call that unique.

Yeah.

I don't know, but it seems unique.

To like what you do.

Yeah, no, it's a very unique thing to do. It's a noble cause to actually do what you love.

Hustleandflowchart.com comp yeah.

And go read these notes that we are already fascinated about. And we're actually. We're doing the interview. We're learning things as we read our notes, which is weird, but very true.

It is true. Pretty much all of the tips, strategies, tools, backstory, resources, anything mentioned on the show, we put it in the notes so that pretty much anybody can read the notes and get a pretty good picture of all the stuff we talked about on the podcast. And easy reference. And Joe's throwing pens at me.

Yeah. It's time to wrap up this intro because, Matt, it's dinner time.

It is dinner time. So go to hustlerflowchart.com comp download the notes. Let's go talk summit stuff with Naveed.

Summit stuff.

Go.

Hey, Naveed, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me, guys.

Yeah, man. We were just kind of talking about the history of Matt and yourself. You guys kind of go way back, you know, and you. Yeah, I mean, what was. You were just saying was 2015.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I bought. I mean, it was in 2013. I know Matt from a long time ago, actually. I think when he was doing some other things with WordPress and stuff like that. And then I found the Learn to Blog, and I think I bought it initially or something because I was doing some blogging at the time for my site. I thought it could be useful, right. So I bought that one. And yeah, that's basically how I found out about Matt, I guess with Bradley. That was like back in the day, really. But I know we've also done some stuff, you know, later on for, you know, there's some trainings. And I did was on his previous podcast as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we made. I think. I think I made some Training for your members area at the time. You made some training for my members area at the time. And you were also on my podcast back when it was called Authority Insider, before we moved over to the Hustle.

And Flowchart, which we should link in the show notes if anyone wants to check it out. Because that was like live.

Yeah, why not? It is.

Yeah.

That's. That was probably from somewhere around 2015, 2016. Somewhere in there.

Yeah. I would say it was around when I came out with Virtual Summit Mastery, the first version. We launched it in September 2015, basically. And now we are onto Virtual Summit Mastery 3.0 now. So we have done a few iterations and improved it. Lots of case studies, going through it as well.

Yeah. And now you're in Sacramento, and I think pretty much every time you and I get on a call, you're in a different country. I think the first time I was talking to you, you lived in Cabo, I believe, either Cabo or Cancun, right?

Yeah, I've been living the first location. When I moved abroad after, you know, things took off in my business, I actually went to Cabo. Then I went to Cancun. So I was kind of there. I was in US for a little bit. But my main location actually has been London now for the past two years or so. But I'm just kind of traveling right now. And Sacramento was a good location for doing some interviews for some summits. Some have coming up as well. It's a good time zone for that.

Yeah. Well, it's cool because you do the virtual summits, but you're also like the digital nomad lifestyle where you kind of move around. So as you do the virtual summits, you can kind of position yourself in the optimal place to do the interviews.

Yeah, exactly. But it's really challenging because I wanted to push the quality for my song, my next one. So I had to kind of pick a place where I could get decent Internet. Also had a place where I could actually do something interesting. So it actually looks consistent with my brand and upping the quality. I mean, I want to push the game a little bit when it comes to Summit, since that's. We are teaching it, we are doing it our own as well. So, yeah, I want to push it a little bit, at least the best I can.

I want to. I'm curious about how you came into the whole Virtual Summit space because, I mean, you pretty much put virtual summits on the map, more or less. I mean, as far as what I've heard from Matt and you Know what I know about you?

Yeah, no, I feel like with the virtual summits, I'm not sure that they may predate you, they may have been around before you were doing them, but you were the first person that I remember going out there and talking about them and teaching them and sort of being the influencer in that space.

Yeah, it's interesting actually because obviously there were summits before. I was definitely not the first one because I found this through, you know, health summits. And they were doing already seven figures, you know, some tens of thousands of leads, hundreds of thousands of email subscribers in some cases as well. So I was like, I was very intrigued. That was back in 2014. You know, my business was kind of stale. I was doing podcasting, some blogging wasn't really taking off and I found summits and then I decided I'm going to host my own because I had already some experience doing some interviews for my podcasts, but didn't grow my email list or generate much revenue. So I did the branding summit. That was kind of my first one in 2014, had a bunch of speakers there. So I kind of re engineered what was, I guess what other people were doing a little bit. But then obviously over time came up with my own system there. But the first one honestly was a good success for me because I had only about 900 subscribers on my list before hosting it. And then I got about 3,000 from that first summit, $20,000 in profit. But that's not really the interesting thing with that one. I mean, I quit my job, moved abroad. I achieved my goals with it. But what happened afterwards, the month after that summit, is that I made significant amount, like over $32,000 from an affiliate promo. Plus I won his grand cash prize. That was for Amit Sethi at the time. And he had this kind of serious launch promotion. And I promoted it basically to my list was like 3,500 people or so. And then I had up against John Lee Dumas and some other big names and I won that promotion and got also. So it was over $40,000 in sales or revenue the month after my summit ended. So I leveraged that momentum to build on that and quickly I scaled it to a six figure business after hosting my first one, end of 2014. So it's really the back end of it that I leveraged a lot.

What were you doing before you were doing summits? I know we talked about it on our previous episode. I'm just kind of refresh here.

Yeah, I mean, not honestly, I was like as I said just building relationships with some people. I was doing my, doing interviews for, you know, for my, for YouTube and stuff like that, posting on social media. I was doing a lot of random things but it wasn't really taking off anything. But that was when I started doing my own summits that things started to, you know, kind of snowball. And then people came to me basically because I didn't really have a program or anything like that. I wasn't even intended to become an expert on the topic. People asked me how did you do this one? How did you pull it off? And then obviously started to get some more clients like Chandler Bolt of self publishing school. That was one of my first main one I would say I had other ones in different markets. But he definitely helped in terms of getting a really big case study and that helped him obviously scale to seven figures building all these relationships. So that summit was 30,000 opt ins or so and hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue. And then obviously in the back end over time that scaled for him to a seven figure, multi, multi, seven figure business.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's how, how the, the best businesses get created, right is you kind of start doing something and you start seeing some results with it and people start to take notice that you're getting results with this and start asking you hey, how are you doing that? And then the next thing you know, you, you kind of evolve that into a business. I know with us with the podcasting space most recently, we've put a lot of time and focus into the podcasting and monetizing the podcast and you know, growth, hacking and showing other people like the results we're getting with podcasting. And inevitably we get you know, two or three emails or Facebook messages or LinkedIn messages like every single day with people asking for advice on getting a podcast going or people that have a podcast asking about monetization or people that are have a podcast on.

And you, I see your ads for some stuff. You actually do promote the episodes too. You know, like you're pushing some stuff behind it. You have great content on your podcast. Obviously it's gonna eventually snowball. It's the same with what I was doing, right with summits. I was doing great work. I also did them a little differently. We started not only using them as a list build, we also use them to promote things in the back. And whether that's an affiliate product, can be membership site, course, high ticket offer, can be any, anything in the back end. Essentially that's how you can double, triple, quadruple even more your revenue from the actual summit. Although we have done six figures multi six figures from just an all access pass alone. Kind of the upgrade from this free summit. And then now we experimenting with some one click upsells and stuff like that throughout the funnel to increase that value cart value right away. It's some really cool stuff you can do with it.

Yeah. Well, just for anybody who might be listening to this episode in isolation and hasn't heard us talk about virtual summits in the past, can you give us a real quick sort of overview of the virtual summit concept and then we'll kind of dive a little bit deeper in some of the creative ways you're doing them.

Absolutely. I mean the traditional summits, they're typically like five to seven days long and you have 20 to 30 experts can even be more experts on. And it's kind of like the webinar on steroids. Because in an ideal world you'll get some experts on a handful of them. Also promote you to their audience, to their email list and that's how basically you would grow your audience. There's other ways to promote it too. We can get into that possibly here as well. And there's also kind of one day summit, sort of just kind of mini summits. Like you don't have to even do them five to seven days. But I think the snowball effect is a little bit bigger if you do it first. Start with a little bit longer one and then in between your bigger summits you can do like one day summits, five to 10 speakers or 12 speakers on. And then you basically can do them pre recorded or live, doesn't really matter. But you can also use one day summits to promote affiliate products or even your own courses and products as well as. But they won't get as many leads as the bigger summits. Obviously that's kind of the main difference. But that's kind of the way we are doing it. The using both in our business. That's kind of what I see, kind of the future. That's kind of the most effective sales funnel I've heard or found over the years. Also I heard on a podcast, Russell Brunson, he actually used this. I mean he's the sales funnel guy. Right. He's actually said on a podcast, I think it was marketing secrets or something, that the most profitable sales funnel that he's used or one of them was the summit funnel. So there you have it from the man himself from Funnels.

That's amazing. Yeah. And he's doing a lot. And that's where we've thought about the whole summit thing. Actually what's intriguing me was this whole mini summit one day concept just for us personally. We're thinking okay, well we have a really solid platform with the podcast here that is going and I know there's a lot of undertaking for a full summit. It's kind of like you said a webinar on steroids. So there's a lot of work but the benefits are massive. It sounds like list groups growth is probably the number one would you say.

Even a one day summit by the way guys? I mean that can also be a webinar on steroids because you still have more experts that can come in promote. The main difference is for a bigger summit you would have a longer lead up time with promotion and stuff like that. So maybe you have a few weeks, your affiliate partners, you provided more resources to promote and stuff like that. Maybe you do leaderboards and stuff. But for one day or mini summit you can basically just kind of do that as a regular webinar pro. Maybe you start the week before promote it. You get a good world like,000 to 3,000 leads. If everything goes well, if you have some big partners you can obviously get a whole lot more. But it doesn't have to be too much more in terms of the promo. And it can also be used as a pre, pre launch to something you can like fit them in as even a kind of a one day something can be as a live cast during a launch. You can do them in many ways.

Interesting. Yeah. And I'm just thinking because we do a lot of affiliate marketing and you mentioned that that could be a good way to maybe stir up some, some interest in that space. And I would imagine what on that one day summit or really any summit, it's just got killer value. You're getting the perspective from all these other people. Then at the other end there's an offer of some sort.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I don't usually sell on the actual some. Maybe I have some special deals and stuff like that on it. Right. But you can actually provide so much value on the sum of the sessions besides kind of the funnel when they are signing up obviously. And you obviously you would pitch maybe the all access pass or something in the emails. But then when they go through that funnel you can have one click upsells and stuff. And then towards the end you can obviously lead them into another funnel which could be a more high ticket one or even during the summit you can get them on a call or for an affiliate product, there's many ways to structure it. Depends always what your main goal is with this. If it's to get applications, I would definitely encourage you to, during the summit, try to get as many, you know, call schedule as possible. Because people, when they sign up for a summit, they're hot, right? They want to, they're like, there they are, like excited. So after the summit, some people cool off a little bit. So it's like good during a summit to get, get as much of that kind of going. If you, if your goal, especially with applications. But if it's to lead people into a course, I think afterwards is very good to kind of lead, lead them into a regular funnel for whatever you're selling in the back end.

Gotcha. So basically just the kind of grand overview of a summit is, you know, between one and, I don't know, maybe like a week. I don't know what the longest summits.

People do are, but I've done 30 days. That was my first summit.

Oh, wow, that was long. That's hefty.

That worked for me. I had like 88 speakers on that one. I don't recommend anyone going that route necessarily. I think someone has had more speakers on some summits they wanted to kind of. I don't think that's the most beneficial, I think is to have really solid content and also picking the right speakers for your summit. So you make sure they kind of complement what you are doing in your business. And then even if you have 20 to 30, I mean, if you have a good kind of synergy, I think a lot of these people also will come on board and promote you, especially if it fits their schedule and all of that. You can definitely get into some of this. It's obviously some markets are more competitive than others.

Gotcha. And then so while you're doing this summit, you know, you might do it live, you might do it prerecorded. I know some people do it in different ways, but basically the idea is people register to be able to access this summit for free while it's going to. And then the upsell is typically something like for 100 bucks, you get all the recordings after the summit, but then they're also being added to your email list so you can promote other products, affiliate offers, you know, done for you, services, anything like that, once they're on your list. And that's kind of the grand scheme of what you're trying to accomplish, right?

For sure. I mean, a tip for you guys. I know you, you're working on summit Right. So on the actual when they sign up, do do basically a one time offer for let's say if you mean you're in similar market as myself, so you can do like six to seven dollars or something for that. And then it goes up after let's say 15 minutes you can do it. So it goes up to 97. That actually crushed it for us. We used like deadline funnel to accomplish this and that was very successful. Like we got six figures in sales before the summit even started. Like on just the Premium Pass or Access Pass. That was pretty incredible.

That's really cool.

That's interesting.

So what has changed since. So last time I interviewed you about summits, I think it was roughly 2015. I think we decided what have you seen change in the world of virtual summits? What new additions have you started doing? How has it evolved since then?

Absolutely. I mean then. I mean. Well, still I felt I still evolved like at that time, like for how it was before. Like we had obviously added some backend files. We did a more high quality, we had great content on there. They were not really sleazy. But in terms of what I'm really excited about now is the thinking about how we can create a good customer journey for the people going through it. What's the end goal? Sometimes you just want to do something for the sake of doing it because you think okay, it's a great list build, but what's really the end goal with it? I love for example, the fact that you can do let's say 30 interviews with people, connect with them and then you can actually repurpose a lot of this content and keep promoting not only the speakers, but you also get content for like you can get content for months, a year. If you do one or a few year of these summits, even one day summits, you get a lot of content. Then you can also turn these summits evergreen. That was not really something we focus as much on. And when you interviewed me last time, I think there were still. We were testing a bunch of things. We were testing to give away five interviews and stuff like that. After the summit was over, that didn't work as well. So we basically wanted to replicate that experience of a live summit. Basically it's running let's say August 26th to August 31st and then basically afterwards we can close it like a close cart regular during the summit. But then a few weeks after or month after, whatever, we could open it up again as Evergreen. And then basically you run it the same way. But new people will come there you can drive traffic with your partners. Facebook ads, especially if you have a great funnel, you can definitely do that. And then people go through this customer journey and it's basically you have designed it in a way that so it fits for your business. That's kind of what we are doing with this building school 2.0 that we are launching. That's exactly the way we are thinking about it. What makes a good customer journey? How would I want to see people going through this? Because our most premium thing we are selling also this Virtual Summit Mastery. We want people to come into that one eventually, but maybe they are not ready for it right away. So we're trying to kind of design that customer journey so it just fits them.

Is there a specific person who is just perfect to use the Virtual Summit model for their business that you've seen?

That's a great question. I get that a lot because I get also a lot of objections like it's not for me and stuff like that. I think honestly a virtual summit is great for knowledge, businesses, experts, you know, it's definitely great for them. But I've seen it work great for software companies like Teachable. They are using it very successfully. Thinkific companies like that, even drip email marketing software, they used it to kind of create awareness because it's a big marketing campaign I think. But so some is work for whether you're starting absolutely from zero. I think you can grow up an email list, generate five figures of revenue. That's kind of what I see on average from a lot of our students coming from Virtual Summit Mastery. And then if you have already a business, maybe you're generating five to six figures, you can definitely use the Summit to scale up that. And obviously if you already have the seven figure levels, I mean Neil Patel, you saw our system, you had like Michael Hyde has used a variation of some of this stuff as well to do summits before. And we said they already very successful but they could bring people into let's say high ticket clients or corporate, whatever they want. Or in terms of Michael Hyatt, he used the Summit to get people into his membership site generating millions of dollars from that over time.

Yeah, that's why I wanted to bring that up. I like that you brought in the fact that there are successful people who have established businesses and they're known and they're still doing it. Like Bill Glaser right now from Dan Kennedy and Glazer Kennedy. We were actually in talks with him to get him on the show and he was like, hold on, I'm Actually heads down right now preparing for a summit. And I was like, that's awesome, that's really cool. And then I saw an ad for it today. One of our buddies, Steve, I gotta check that out.

Yeah. Another one that comes to mind now is the Food Revolution Summit. Right. I mean they are very successful in that space. I'm not saying that anyone should just kind of try to compete with them. That would be pretty difficult, I guess. But you can definitely go into a sub niche of that. They cover a lot of different topics. Let's say you're in a competitive market like the food niche or health niche, you're going to go into kind of a more specific niche. Like my student did Steph, instead of just doing a health summit, she did the Women's Strength summit. And then she crushed it for the first one. 20,000 opt in $60,000 in revenue from that one just because she went more specific. I think if you go really broad, it's going to be harder, especially in some markets. But there's also a lot of gold out there where summits hasn't been done well or they haven't been done at all. I think there, if you're listening into this and you're thinking what can I do? And maybe you don't even have a business yet, you can think of some niches like that. I have many students who just kind of saw an opportunity in a market, partnered with someone or did it themselves and just crushed it. To enter a market by hosting a summit. That's exactly how I would do if I had time right now. I would just, I mean I have a full list of kind of different topics I want. If I would enter it, I would just kind of do it with a summit and then I will build out all the other assets afterwards.

Yeah, and then you pretty much have like an instant list in that niche when you're done.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly. And they're very engaged too. That's kind of what I've seen over time. But you know, my first list building school summit I hosted in 2016, like that summit during, I mean there was over 26,000 opt ins during the summit and we had a bunch of partners. But then during the summit it was multiple six figures. But over time, like a few years that. Except because we tagged people in our email software so I could tell that over a million dollars came from that one virtual summit, which is really interesting. It's just one summit.

Wow. Yeah, that's cool. Now how much of the summit stuff are you doing? Yourself versus how much of it is a team? I think so. You know, you mentioned that Joe and I, to be doing a summit. It's something that we've tossed around the idea we. I think we even announced it on the show, like, yeah, we're going to do one. And then a week later we did another show where we're like, yeah, we're debating if we're going to do it. And I think really we haven't 100% decided for sure we're going to do a summit just because of the workload involved. After we started looking at like, okay, we've got to line up all the people like, you know, six months in advance and start recording interviews and get all the sales copywritten and get all the sales pages built and then get the members area and then set up all the sales systems. And you know, on the surface, it looks like there is a lot of moving parts. So I'm kind of curious how well systematized you have that. How much are you actually carrying on your shoulders versus how much of that is just kind of going to systems and team?

Yeah, what we do is very dialed in at this stage. And also that's kind of the system I try to give to my students as well. But you know, obviously when you interview me first time, that was a few years ago, I mean, I didn't have it as dialed in. Probably took a little bit longer for some people. But now, I mean, if you can do one summit, you have the templates for it and stuff like that, then you can clone it for the next one. And you asked about team. I don't have a big team. I have maybe kind of assistant VA helping me with some stuff. I have an editor. I have my designer, obviously on my team. So he maybe, even though we have templates, I just tell him now to kind of customize what they already have created and then he can go in there. So I don't have to go in and do everything right. So. But I have also students who are doing everything themselves because they maybe they can't afford to hire someone. Maybe they just have a va and that doesn't have to cost too much money. Can be a few dollars an hour if you hire from the Philippines or something like that, or an editor. I found even in US based from Upwork that's I think it's $10 to $14 an hour. It's pretty cheap, to be honest. Depending on obviously you can also increase the rate if they are good value for you can also start out low and then give them in salary increase over time. Right. So they actually stay happy with you. And if they're really good, obviously so team wise you don't need too much, but you need to systematize as you go. Like create processes. Systems. We use Process street for this. It's a great tool and we actually give my students, I've given them all my processes basically for doing a summit. So that's cool. Yeah, it's pretty good. So they just go through it and obviously it takes still about to do a bigger summit. I would recommend about three months, to be honest, because it's mostly not necessarily that it takes you as much time, but with the speakers and stuff, that's always takes more time. But it's also think about it in the bigger scale. You're creating all this content that I think is pretty valuable. How long would it take you to write so many 30 blog posts of that scale? You do an interview of 40 minutes to an hour. That's a lot of words you can do. And you don't have to do anything beyond the interview. If you use Rev.com, that's what we call the VSM multiplier method. So after we have done let's say a summit or just interview, you can Transcribe it with Rev.com and kind of repurpose all this content afterwards. So it's already prepared. Can also be used for action guides, session notes and stuff like that. So you can even create other resources around this. That's kind of what I love about it as well. There's so much you can really do with it. But again, six months, I don't think it would have to take you to line up speakers so far in advance. But it obviously depends a little bit who you want on board. If you kind of overwhelmed with the fact that hey, I want to do a big one, maybe consider doing a Monday summit as I mentioned, that could also work obviously for you guys to create more awareness. Maybe not as many opt ins, but still would be pretty successful, I think.

I like that. I like the one day summit idea. I think the big objection or at least one that we had is the workload and also thinking we're like, okay, well we have a good platform here in the podcast and listeners might think, okay, well they have a great platform on YouTube or something. So the benefit of having the summit in the mix sounds amazing because you have all this content you can repurpose and all these other channels and then you're growing the list sounds like you're probably growing relationships with your affiliate partners, your guests and other. Your subscribers.

Yeah, I mean, usually what I do for things like this, I mean, that's how I started. Not. I mean, we have obviously list Building School 2.0, probably at the time this is coming, it's kind of up. But we started working on this about three months, maybe a little bit longer before, because I wanted to make sure I could line up partners for it. And also, sometimes it's good if you can start even sooner in advance. Obviously, if you know your schedule for the year and stuff like that, do it as soon as you can. That's kind of what the big players, a lot of big players for big affiliate launches, they're definitely starting in advance to line up. People like Stu McLaren, Ryan Levesque, they have always. Their big affiliate launches each year. They do that in advance. It's the same a little bit for a summit. But I guess if you're listening in and you're thinking, okay, I'm not there yet, you don't have to worry. You just gotta start where you are. You don't have to think too much about the launches going on. You just need to kind of do it. And for me, myself, I was as good as I timed it in a month where there was not really too many launches. So basically I got about 95 to 96% or so of the people I've talked to. Everyone have been very supportive. They said, okay, I'm going to promote it, I'm going to share it. Most of them have never promoted me before, so that's pretty interesting. Maybe they've heard of me before, but that's still, you know, that's not the same as sharing me with their list and stuff like that.

Yeah, Now I'm curious about the outreach aspect of it because funnily enough, the interview stuff is not really, I think what, you know, scares us off from doing virtual summits. I would think it's probably more all of the outreach that needs to happen with getting affiliates to consistently push, you know, chasing up people to do the interviews. You know, we've all had experiences where somebody scheduled to do an interview and then five minutes before the interview, they. They don't show up. And then you email them and they're like, oh, I totally forgot. And now that throws off your whole timeline and schedule. And then, you know, you've got the. Once the thing goes live, you've got to get affiliates and all the people that were participating in the summit, you're trying to get them to push through Email and things like that, you know, how do you. How do you keep on top of all of that stuff?

Yeah, that can be challenging. I think still I love the fact that you can be still personal like you reaching out yourself or you maybe you can obviously a va to do the outreach but you can confirm it. I think you still should come from your name. I don't like when someone is sending an invite for a summit unless it's like a really big name. I would probably agree then but if it's not, I don't think it's good. You're not at that level where I think you are too big for doing an outreach to an influencer you really want on board. So that's kind of the first thing. And also really having that list of the Dream 100, I'm sure other people might have talked about it on the show before but having a list of people that you want to reach out to, not to say that everyone needs to be on the summit, but you have a list and you can expand on that. I have probably a few hundred people on mine so I can take from that list and then make sure. Okay, are they right fit? I can make it smaller for some summits as well. And then I go from there and then I start reaching out and I always reach out to actually more people than I would think that I really want on it. Because I know as you mentioned, some people will drop off. Some people might not schedule. For some weird reason even I posted on my Facebook that I'm doing kind of list building school 2.0 and I had some people say, yeah, I want to be part of it. Right. People said that they want to be part of my summit. I didn't reach out to them. And then when I reached out to messenger, these people don't schedule, they don't schedule the pre call. I mean what did they expect? That is just some free promotion from my end because we are getting quite some opt ins for our summit so they can obviously get exposure. And maybe they didn't just want to take that commitment to do that call with me because we do that with every single speaker. Unless they are, you know, very celebrity influencers or something, then they don't have time to do a quick call. But they see that the quality of the content also their relationships are building on that. If you can do that quick 10 to 15 minute call before we actually schedule the official kind of call with them or the official interview. Video interview. Right. So I think summits should be in video. If you can I think that's kind of increases a little bit the premium value of it as well. You can repurpose it in many ways as well. So. And then obviously the follow up is really the key in the follow up. I followed up with a few people and obviously then getting oh, sorry I missed the email and then they scheduled. So that can happen and just kind of being on top of it with your, you know, whatever you're using. And then you can have. There's probably some tools and stuff like that. You can see if they open it, I think streak and there's a banana tag or something. You can kind of see if they open the email and they can be on top of like really if they, you know, just kind of follow up with them, you know, ping them nicely. I don't like, you know, have any judgment if they miss it. You know, I know how it can be busy inbox, that's not the end of the world. Just follow up with them and you know, see if they get back to you. Otherwise I can also try another platform like Facebook like with some speakers didn't get back to me and then I might have reached out to someone on the team on Facebook because I had connection to them and they said sorry, it's been busy with a launch. And then they got back to me and they scheduled. So that's kind of, that's my process for a little bit. You can always get the VA in the mix to do some of this for the most part. I do most of this myself and it works pretty well. We use Airtable to kind of manage some of the list. It's kind of like Google sheets on steroids and that works pretty well for us.

Yeah. Is most of the traffic coming from affiliates when you do this or is your list big enough now that it's like most of it's coming from the list?

For my end, I mean I could definitely do a summit and just kind of do it for my own audience and add value to them and I'll still get quite a good sales. But I think the main thing is to have for me, at least in my market, I think this is for our big affiliate push of the year. We do maybe a few of these. Some summits might be bigger than others but definitely most of the traffic will come from the affiliates. But then we can retarget that traffic with Facebook ads and stuff like that and that can be powerful. Even YouTube and we might experiment a little bit with that as well. I had someone on even for my summit, Justin Brooke spoke To him it's like you can do like Google Ads and stuff like that. And his colleague John talked all about kind of YouTube ads. So I'm getting into that a little bit too. I think you guys had. Did you have them on the show as well?

We've had John, yeah.

They're killer what they are doing. I really like what they are doing. So I've got a ton of ideas how you can potentially use that for summits and some of our other funnels as well to kind of get, you know, just kind of use that traffic we are getting from the partners for especially summit that is live. And then you can obviously use that to get more sales and stuff like that. Especially we target for the sale for the premium pass is very high ROI.

Yeah, I like what you said about the Dream 100 because one of the things I wanted to ask you was connecting with influencers. If someone isn't a known person yet or they feel like their network isn't that large. Because we use the Dream 100 actually in our follow ups with all of our podcast guests, we have an airtable. We're actually as our top 100 and just today we sent. I forget her name now, but she was a rep for one of the people on the podcast. She connected us with two people on there.

That's awesome. I mean that's kind of the way after you've done an interview you can ask for one introduction or something like that. You don't ask for a specific name or something. That's how you can expand as well. But if you're unknown, start with some people you know in your network. I call it the latter strategy. So basically starting with people you know and basically going from there, right? So you can walk yourself up. So you start with someone in your network, maybe they make an introduction and then you can eventually you have a few yeses, then you can name drop some people in your email when you're doing a little bit more cold out treats. Because even though you have tried to build relationships, I'm a big proponent of building relationships before you actually need them. And not just any relationships, but authentic ones and then really starting to reach out. So if you do that over time and making that just part of your habit when you're coming out to do a summit at some point it's gonna be a lot easier. Honestly, like you guys, you have done that, you have promoted for you guys, it's not gonna be hard to get speakers on. You have already supported them with the show and promoted them and stuff. Like that.

Yeah, yeah. And just thinking of the folks. Yeah. Without that network, that's. I'm thinking it would be kind of cool to, you know, you can maybe post a dream 100 on, you know, your social media account so your current network and see who you're looking for. We've done that before, too. There's so many ways to like, really start the momentum if you feel like your network isn't that large or where it should be.

Yeah, the Dream 100 thing, like, we share that everywhere. When, when this, when this episode is done, when it goes live, you're going to get an email from us saying, hey, the episode's live. By the way, here's a link to our dream 100. If you know anybody on this list, we'd love a connection. Otherwise, feel free to connect us with anybody who you think would be a great fit for the show. But we share that dream 100 list with everybody. We post it to social media, we post it in, we link it to emails when we email anybody, pretty much. And so we constantly have people looking at our Dream 100. And Roland Frazier recently saw our Dream 100 and he connected us with 25 out of the hundred people on the Dream 100.

That's awesome. I like, I love this, actually. I mean, I think this is great. And also what I did and recently I said, I posted on my Facebook, so I. Obviously, maybe you're listening. You don't have so many followers yet or whatever. Maybe you're starting from scratch, but maybe you have some people on your Facebook that can connect you. They can tell them what you are doing. I mean, I just told people what I'm doing. I hadn't even posted too much in a while, but I still got a lot of engagement on that one and some introductions and stuff like that to other people because I just kind of gotten some momentum in the summit. But I wanted to see if there's some other people that have missed. And I actually got a few people on for this. Justin Brook was one of them and his colleague John, and I think I got a few others from this post as well. So it's pretty cool. See, that's.

Yeah, there's a power in just sharing what you're doing. We do it all the time. Matt, you're a little better at it with the podcast on, like, Facebook, but yeah, it's really interesting. You would never know who's kind of creeping. I put the little quotes, air quote the quotes because you never know who's actually paying attention to you online. A lot of people are so silent until you ask or you put yourself out there.

I completely agree. But it's about adding the value, right? So if you add value over time, I mean you're gonna have very easy way to do it. So if you get people on a summit, let's say they're saying yes, there's a big name and they promote it. See how you can add value beyond the summit to them. If they are nice, maybe you have never done anything for them before and they promote your summit, then it's kind of up to you. How can you promote. Maybe they have a lead magnet. Maybe you can promote that to your list afterwards. You can feature them in some way to add more value to them beyond the summit because they did you just a big favor. Especially if you are new to the market, right. You don't have much of this. They did you a massive favor. So you always think about that. Don't take things for granted. If people mail for you and promote you, that should be a privilege actually. So that's true.

Yeah. Because I do most of that follow ups with the Dream 100 and it's all that's constantly in my head is like, okay, I'm not going to pester them. I know they're busy, everyone is. We don't know what they're dealing with. But what's the value that we can add to the the conversation? And what are some common things that you do? You said obviously promote their offer or their freebie. Are there any other go tos that you use?

Yeah, I mean since we're now turning some of our summits evergreen, it's like a lot of the problems we saw before, I mean that's kind of what changed as well. A lot of summit content just kind of collect dust in a membership area. Like I mean that's with anything. I mean, you know that you do. That's kind of exclusive content. Like not so many people check it out. But if you kind of take some of this content that you've done with the speaker, maybe some can go on YouTube, some can go on your social media, some can even go in blog posts as a quote, you can link to them. You can promote them occasionally via email. Maybe they have a product you can promote. Obviously if you have 30 speakers, you're not going to promote all of them at the same time, but you can do that in different ways. Maybe you have a newsletter every week so you can feature a resource. I know you guys have a recap newsletter and stuff like that. You post Some stuff that could be a great place to feature resources. Maybe every week you have one or two from different speakers and stuff like that. And that's a good way to promote them ongoing, to be honest. And that's kind of what we have seen. A lot more excitement. When I'm telling them what I want to do. I basically focus on them first and foremost. When I get on, let's say a pre chat with them before I even do the interview and then I get the confirmation if they can promote or not. Most people say right away, mostly yes, if they can. And then I get the commitment and then basically I get into how I can help them, how we gonna share it for them and stuff like that. So it's basically start focusing on them and then seeing if they can commit to the dates I have for the summit. If not, you might still have them on the summit. I mean, usually I don't require them to promote or anything. It's just a matter of making them feel valuable so they actually want to share it. I think that's the most important thing. That's what most people miss the mark on. They just make it about themselves. But we try to make it also about the speakers so they feel value and also that they feel that their audience first and foremost. They will get amazing value if they promote this summit because it's just a free event. Right. They don't have to pitch a paid offer. So it's a very easy way to send 1, 2, 3, 4 emails for. And then obviously they will make the convert pretty well. These summits in most markets, obviously different conversion rates, like 6 to 10% is what I've seen in the online marketing space. Some markets can be 21 to 30% from free to paid. And if you have upsells and stuff like that in the back end, can be even higher over kind of the lifetime and the cart value and stuff like that.

Yeah, no, this is. This is fascinating. So you touched a little bit on Evergreen Summits and I'm curious what sort of technology has to happen when you. So let me start with this. I guess with Evergreen Summits, are you trying to give the appearance that they're live or are you just basically selling people that there is sort of a members area with all this content? Like how are you angling it when it's evergreen? Because I would imagine part of what makes summits work is the sort of scarcity element, that there is a time window for this.

Yes, so that's a great observation. Obviously. So when it's live it's people. You get more engagement, obviously for anything that's live. I mean, it's not that your session's gotta be live, but it happens during the set dates and you most actually do prerecorded and they still work. We haven't seen any drop off in conversion when it comes to sales, so let's get that out of the way. There can be a live summit, can still be prerecorded, but you could do some live elements like a Q and A or kickoff or something, or a closing note during a live summit. Then when we come to the Evergreen, the technology side, you have already recorded them. You probably used, let's say, something like zoom. Now we have stepped up the quality a little bit so we use a more professional live streaming setup for it. But we have recorded the session, edit them, so everything is done, uploaded, let's say to Vimeo or something like this. Then we just put a technology. The main tool for this to accomplish the truly evergreen side is to use Deadline Funnel. But you don't trick people to say, hey, this is a live session happening now. It's just a matter of when they hit the landing page or the opt in page for the summit to register. They see the dates there. It starts at this date, goes on till this date. It's basically a little script you add on the page and then they can see that it starts in the next day, the next two days or something. And they opt in. They get the same experience as someone who would opt in a few months ago when you'd ran it live. I think that's not a bad thing, to be honest, because they have never seen it before in most cases. So we are going to trick them to say. It's like you don't say, hey, this is a, you know, this is like an evergreen webinar. Essentially. That's kind of what it is. That's kind of how I would see it. People know that it's not live, but they still would sign up to get the same experience. Right. As they would during a live webinar.

And I don't think most people really care whether they're watching it live or not. No, I think the only thing that people might get, might care a little bit about is if they feel like they were fooled into thinking it was live. And I mean, the same goes for webinars, right?

Like, but that, that same completely. I mean, they already know that. It's like for a summit session you have recorded, it's not like you're saying, hey, this is A recording, but they will feel. It's not like you're saying, hey, what's going on? Everybody want to post in the chat right away. Like posting. It's not like this. You're not greeting people by name in those sessions. So you will not really be tricking anyone on these summit sessions. I mean, and also another very important note, I've shared this to my students before, is that don't mention the name of your summit actually on. If you, especially if you want to make it truly evergreen, you can use it for anything you want, like a podcast or YouTube video. Or at least you got to cut out the intro or something if you want to do that. But that's what Chandler bolted when he did the self publishing success summit back in the day. Was it like a few years ago? And then he repurposed this summit into a podcast because he had never mentioned really any time sensitive stuff during it. And that's very important to just make it evergreen. Think about these things. Instruct your speakers on it. Of course it's okay if you slip, but that's fine. But just kind of think about these things. If you make evergreen content, I think it's important to also make it work for any platform.

Yeah, no, that's. That's really smart. I mean, the more. What I was talking about was not necessarily the videos being live versus prerecorded, but more like, hey, the summit. The summit goes live on this date. And then kind of making.

Yeah, yeah, you know, that's, that's usually what we do to get the same experience. So that's kind of what. It's kind of like a webinar. You sign up and you get the same date. Right. And it's kind of a little bit similar to that.

Gotcha.

That makes sense. And I love. And just to reiterate your point about content repurposing and not mentioning Roland Fraser, he does that for his podcast and it's very obvious. He'll take clips from TNC traffic and conversion interviews he did there and just uses it for his podcast. And it's like with a summit you could do that. You can put it on YouTube, all this, all these other places. That's what we love about like, we try to do that with our podcasts. Like you said, you see the ads and it might be like snippets from the interview to bring them into the main thing we want them to digest, which is our podcast.

So same thing goes. Yeah, get to the level eventually where you only do what you love to do. Let's see really thrive in the interview setting then you should only do that. The rest is kind of like can be on autopilot. Pretty much like you after you've done the interview, it gets uploaded, let's say to Google Drive and then your editor goes in there or may you transcribe it after the editor? It depends. If you're going to do captions then you need to have the final edit obviously. And then you do that and then you get all the different things. You can get social media videos from this and stuff like that and can get so much content from it. To be honest, that's what I love about that's kind of what I'm most excited like a few years later I'm still using what we are teaching obviously that's kind of the main thing.

Yeah, I love that. So one other thing we kind of talked about, I think we didn't mention it yet on the air, but we talked about it before we hit record was the concept of using these summits to be an affiliate marketer. And you know, that's mine and Joe's game plan really. You know, we sell our newsletter now and we sell products as affiliates and that's really our whole business model these days. So I'm really, really interested to hear how you leverage summits into affiliate. Into affiliate promotions.

Yeah, I mean even started like I did it by chance, that was for my first summit. So I did the branding summit, got a few thousand people signed up and made some good money from that. It was a five figure summit, you know, just kind of from the access pass. But then, you know, I figured what can I do? Because I didn't really have kind of virtual summit master or anything any of my own price yet launched in a big scale. So I figured I could promote an affiliate product that was related to the summit. It got to be aligned with it. So so promoted one of Ramit Sadie's products there and I just basically sent a few emails to that list and it was so engaged I made like 32 or so thousand dollars from it and then won the promotion for that. I think just. And that was not even the most aligned. It could have even been better if I would do it today. To give you an example of what I could do, like let's say Stu McLaren has a program called Tribe. I could do like a membership summit or something like this and then promote his program in the back end. That would be very aligned. So let's see people going through it. Maybe they hear from Stu and some of his Case studies and maybe some other influencers on the summit. They gotta be primed. You can build a list of a few thousand people and you can beat out some big shot affiliates with this, like on launches. But also I'm talking this can be used for software, like for promoting software. Let's say I wanted to promote convertkit or a tool like that. I could basically do little email marketing type summit, like maybe a one day summit even for this to have maybe a few speakers on there and then maybe they would share the power of using ConvertKit in this one. And then I would basically, you know, promote, let's say a free trial and get a bunch of people signed up from this little funnel.

Hey Navid, I'm going to say that you're going in the danger zone because you're getting my wheels spinning. I think Matt's are too. We're like, oh, this is where the.

I was going to say, I mean we both like obviously love thrivecart but then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, something around that or like how to increase. I mean you could definitely something around, you know, different. You guys have like a PDF or something on your site for different tools or training on it.

We have like a whole handful of tools that we promote.

Yeah, like yeah, it's all topic based. That's what I'm hearing from you. And so there's. You can have. And I'm just thinking for us in our examples, yeah, like you said, we, we promote software tools and they all have a specific purpose but they all kind of link together too. But you can make these maybe one day summit on, you know, conversions and that could be something like thrivecarp. It'd be back there email.

So my question is for the affiliate stuff with what you're talking about here, does the model change on the front end? A little bit. If you're going to promote, let's say Stu McLaren's thing on the back end, would you still charge on the front end to get the recordings or would you just make this a completely free thing knowing that you're going to monetize through promoting Stu's thing?

Yeah, that's a great, that's actually a great question there. I would probably. So if it's for Stu's thing in this case, because there's a little different. Maybe when you promote a tool you can think about it a little bit differently. But I think for Stu, I would still want to get them into buyers because they will be more likely to purchase from him because they've already taken out the credit card and then they have trusted me and they will probably trust because some of these might be new to me. Right. So if I turn them into buyers, they're going to be way more likely to purchase. So I can also make this offer different then obviously it's not going to be a competition to try by any means. His score is amazing what they are doing, but is going to be like maybe some other resources, maybe some other case studies. I can still make the offer compelling, but maybe I would charge a little bit less. Maybe it will just be for me to. So I can promote it. Maybe I could put some Facebook ads behind it if I charge. So it could be let's say a $37 to $47 offer. Maybe I have a bump offer as well on the cart. So I can increase that a little bit. But it would be a pretty simple funnel. I would not go crazy with one click upsells and all this for probably this type of funnel because they. Cause the main thing is really to get them to purchase this program at the end of the day. That's kind of what what I want to drive them to in this case. And same with kind of tools you can decide depends the value on there. If you're just kind of teaching people about the tool, I think that's not. So that's not as valuable sharing strategies on the summit. So if you have a real content, real value, even if they don't use your tool, I think in that case obviously that could work as a. You can charge for an all access pass. Maybe not as much but you can do it as kind of recoup the investment in ad spend or whatever your you're doing to drive traffic.

Yeah, yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I guess at the end of the day too, you know, anybody who gets involved in your summit, anybody who you might interview in the summit, they kind of. There's a what's in it for them element as well. And I guess if you're not charging on the front end, they don't have that potential to earn affiliate commissions on the front end. Right?

Yeah, that's. But for a one day summit you don't get. I mean you can for example, this could also be a free thing that you promote all over. Right. So it doesn't have have to be. That can be almost like a podcast pretty much depending on your structure of it. Right. If you don't want to charge if you want to promote one of your products like the softwares you're promoting. Right. So then you might not charge for an all access pass, but you will do it. Just educate people. I know you have a great Facebook group on ThriveCart obviously and then you can kind of educate that group. Even if you get no new people on board for the summit, you guys still convert people into that tool. I think that's still valuable. I mean that depends. Again we come back to the main goal. What's your goal with the summit? Doesn't have to be always list build the summit is a great way to kind of educate and that can be done in this one day format. You might not even need speakers for that format. Right. You can just have maybe you bring on some users. So it's like you might have seen these launches where they bring on their students. They call it also live cast. So one day summit can be done in the same way. So you yourself will be on there sharing your experience with it. But then you can also bring on other users maybe from your own group. Right. Who you have convert into ThriveCart whatever it is and they will come on there and share their experience, maybe what they are using with it, their favorite features and stuff like that. That could be one idea for it.

I like this, I probably shouldn't be saying this out loud but whatever. We're very, very transparent in our business. One idea I was just having as you were Talking is for ThriveCart specifically we've created just a ton of content over the years. I mean like shit, tons of videos. Like how many videos have we made for ThriveCart? I don't know, probably hundreds.

We have like their own website there. I mean that ranks.

Yeah. So like we could probably actually repackage a whole bunch of videos that we made, sell it as if it was a summit and then at the end promote into ThriveCart.

Well technically I don't think that's a.

Bad idea to be honest. You can like do easily you can do something like this because people, they would struggle to find all this content. That's kind of, you know I remember Stu, Stu shared with me recently like how. How it was for Michael Hyde. He had this book like platform and then he, you know he wanted. He basically repurposed a lot of blog posts as well into his platform university membership site. So people don't real people pay for convenience. I think that's kind of where you can get in a, you know, members area for a summit or anything like that. It's kind of more convenience.

I think that's 100% what I was just going to say before you. I Was like, yeah, because people might be thinking, oh well, it's free content. But yeah, but people also want to save their time and they want cherry picked like the best.

I have to Google search to find out you have some great content.

Thank you everybody.

Like too much.

It's everywhere. That's our goal, to be everywhere.

Yeah, yeah.

Don't talk about thrivecart except for everywhere else.

It's funny, I try to avoid talking about it on the podcast because I have this like very, very irrational fear that people are going to go and like hijack us on it.

Oh yeah, it's.

Yeah. But it'd be pretty hard because if you search anything related to ThriveCart, we kind of own Google for it nowadays.

But you even share it in your traffic course a little bit. So I mean if you really.

It's not specifically around that, but it's kind of what you guys are doing.

I bought a traffic course is great.

I appreciate that. I remember seeing your name in there.

Yeah, pretty much anybody could model it. But I don't know if everybody has the same drive as we do to recreate what we've done.

I'm not sure if I'm going to only do for thrivecore. Obviously you guys own it. I promote it as well. Not as hard as you guys, but I would promote it for a site, ConvertKit as a lot of products as well. Probably that's kind of what I'm looking to do.

Yeah, I love those ideas. I love the idea of doing a summit into an affiliate thing.

Yeah. Because you're not, you're doing what you can do best, which is create the value, bring the right people together, even if it are customers. Because like, you know, when you're promoting an affiliate product, more or less you're going to hear from some of the people you're buying from. You know, with us we can follow up with a lot of these folks because we have Facebook groups and all that. It'd be so easy to find a handful of case study folks, bring the creator on from that product. That would probably be a no brainer for you guys.

Me, you know, the creator. So that'll be.

But I'm sure like, you know, most are going to have. It's almost like playing with the ego a little bit. It's like, hey, we're going to, you know, here's our plan. We're wrapping this around your tool as, you know, a big piece. It's a big value add to your community as a whole too.

Yeah, they're like kind of like A sponsor of it, like they put the way to. I mean, obviously they're not going to probably pay for the sponsor since they are, you know, you're getting affiliate commissions, but still, it's still a good way to position it. And I think, I mean, no one is talking about summits done in this way. I think that's also what makes kind of. Because I'm always trying to evolve. We do this sometimes. You get bored with the same stuff every day. So trying to kind of think of new ways of doing it and thinking of more effective ways as well and kind of newfound. This is a great way. I even had students. As I said, we did it now it's just kind of more refined in different ways. You can structure this. It's just kind of how it evolved over time.

I'm totally on board to make like a mini single day summit where it's a, you know, a product that we promote on the back end as an affiliate and then just make it an evergreen thing that you just always run ads to. And so you're getting some money on the front end for people that actually pay to register for the summit and then you're getting most of your money on the back end when people go and finally buy the affiliate product that you're promoting.

What people are doing for ClickFunnels, by the way, I mean, a lot of people are doing this like they have education with click. They have like their own funnels. Of course, Russell Brunson has the funnels for ClickFunnels and the webinars. But they're setting up their mini kind of funnels for it can do the same for a summit essentially and use it that way. And then obviously the end goal is to get people to sign up for a trial or for, you know, a paid, paid service as a software.

I love this. It's basically like we turned this into like a little mini mastermind on affiliate marketing.

But it's all inspired by Naveed and give them credit for the success of it as well.

So a lot of people maybe start using this after they listening to this. I mean, I haven't. The only time I can remember sharing this. Maybe I've shared a little bit in my private community, but it's not really something I teach a lot these days, like how to leverage this. Maybe I should talk about it more.

I love the idea. I mean, like, because we're. I mean we've kind of sort of announced it on Facebook a few times and stuff, but we're kind of getting out of the info product business and going, you know, putting most of our focus into the podcast and affiliate marketing. And so this is a way for us to continue to promote courses without, you know, really kind of selling courses.

Without the fulfillment factor. Yeah, we could just do, and this goes for anybody listening, set up a.

Mini course for Virtual Sign Mastery. And like when you have done a summit like this, you can set up how you did it and then you kind of promote my program in the back.

That's true. Yeah. See, I mean if, yeah, maybe we test it out with this and we got a little bit of time. And speaking of that, let's talk about your summit because, I mean it sounds like it's cool because you're still doing summits and that is the main form of your business. Give us a scoop on what you're. What you got coming up.

Absolutely. I mean we, as I said, I mean I have my Virtual Sign Mastery program running strong for a few years and we have hundreds of students in hundreds of different markets going through it successfully. So that's kind of what I love. And I see different markets. Obviously online marketing space is pretty competitive, but for now we are still doing it. We're going to go into different topics maybe later also enter different kind of markets around this which see when I have more time. But for now, the next one we have coming up or at the time this goes live is list building school 2.0. We did it a few years ago, did really well. I mentioned a little bit throughout this episode, but now we just kind of made it a lot better. We have new speakers. You guys are going to be on board. Matt and Joe, you got to crush it on your episode or your session on the summit. And, and also, yeah, we got to do some cool things around it. I mean if you're interested in how you're running a summit or growing your list and learning from the best experts in the world based on when it comes to list building, email marketing, I mean that's definitely encourage anyone to check it out for sure. And list buildingschool.com is going to be the URL for that.

Yeah. And once that goes live and we'll link everything in the show notes as we have them and you'll be hearing more about that from us as well. For sure.

Definitely have some, I mean if you. I have like a full guide on Summit as well on my site freely. I have some checklists and stuff like that. Definitely link whatever you want. I have like so much around it over the years, like a 16,000 word guy, we just kind of wrote the ultimate guide to hosting a virtual summit. They even have people, even if they're not in my program, maybe they can't get in for some reason or they can't afford it. They take my free material and they run with it and they say this like some of the best they have used. And I recently in the teachable Facebook group, I just saw it the other day, someone had run like a six figure summit. I was blown away. They had just used my free checklist actually for doing. But obviously we speed things up. That's kind of how I see courses these days. And you mentioned you kind of going out of a little bit that space. I see it more as we give people, of course I give people more in depth training in a program but we also give people the implementation resources. So we give them like fill in the blank copy funnel templates for Click Funnels and Thrive Architect and stuff like that. So we give them everything they could possibly need to do it. I think that's what I see in 2019 and beyond. That's really a good program when you give people the implementation they need to do it faster and better. That's kind of what we give. Free information is everywhere. Right. That's how I see it.

And just to clarify too, we're not like anti course, we're just anti us making courses. We actually love courses that buy a shit ton of courses. We don't want to be the ones making them anymore. We'd rather promote other people doing courses and do this kind of thing.

I love the course model. I think it. I also do our kind of smaller courses but I think when you're charging a premium for something you should give people some implementation as well within the program and some community aspect and stuff like that. And that's kind of what we do with Virtual Summit mastery as well.

I love it.

Yeah, you lead with all the good value and you're giving them the shortcut. If they're willing to invest a little bit more with you, it just makes sense.

So I wanted to ask, as we kind of get into our wrap up questions here, what is your current marketing stack that you like to use? I know you've mentioned a few tools, Deadline Funnel and Convertkit Airtable you said. Yeah, like when, when you set up a virtual summit now what's kind of your marketing stack to make sure it all tool stack to make it all happen?

Yeah, so I kind of change evolve over time but I actually convertkit I recommend mostly for the beginners like not Only beginners, but it's a great tool, I love it. It's very simple, simple to use. We still have a paid account with them but for most of the stuff we are doing we're using Active campaign because you can do a little more with the automation side and stuff like that and trigger things and stuff like. So I kind of like that and I use both actually. I use Clickfunnels for some stuff. We are mostly used Thrive Architect before but I kind of go in between the two a little bit test now. But either you can't really go wrong. There's also some softwares out there that can do the summits but I think either Thrive Architect or kind of for WordPress or ClickFunnels that's a great kind of just kind of for the free summit. Then you can use Teachable to host your courses or coaching programs. The whole access pass you can host in Teachable as well. So we just set up a really nice members area there customized a little bit. I have a guy who can do some of this with Teachable and that looks really good actually a lot better than when I had it on WordPress and you don't have to think too much about it going down and stuff like that. And then Demio is for videos, kind of for uploading videos and what else am I missing? I mean to record the. I mean I mentioned that I'm using a bit higher quality now. So Zoom is kind of the level one you can use. I think now I'm using like a Panasonic GH5 camera with basically a VMIX software. It's a live streaming software so I can record there and I'm using a capture card. But that's kind of when you get to the. That's like level three. I would say level one to level two is to kind of stick with Zoom. You can obviously use webcam, ATR 2100 microphone or something. And then you can step it up by using maybe a capture card with Zoom that will be level two and then a little better camera as well then you can get even better quality. So it's kind of like evolve over time. If you're doing summits a lot like I have, eventually you will want to kind of upgrade a little bit to make sure the quality gets better on your end at least. And then you have to kind of encourage the speakers to kind of have good Internet and have good lighting and all this stuff that goes into it. But it's really start small. If you look at some of my older Sessions that we have made so much money from these. It came from the content. That's the most important thing. I think it's not necessarily for the quality, but now if I want to repurpose for YouTube and stuff like that later, I think the quality does matter, to be honest. So that's why we are pushing more on the quality side too.

Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the tools that you use are pretty much the same that we use.

That's what I was gonna say.

I was smiling.

I'm like, this is almost identical stack.

Yeah. We don't use ConvertKit. We could also. TriQuarter is one we have used for a long time. That's very good as well. We are kind of checking like, you know, ThriveCart, we're testing some stuff with ClickFunnels as well. Depends a little bit the funnel we're setting it up for. But yeah, kind of just going between the two a little bit.

And we'll definitely mention thrivecart in the show notes. Yeah.

But no, that stack is the same as our. We don't use ConvertKit, but we, we still use ActiveCampaign and Drip. We actually separate them because ActiveCampaign is actually where all of our customers live. Drip is actually all of our free leads.

I saw some people moving. What's your experience on. Just kind of throwing it back to you. What's your experience on Drip? Your side note, like, is it.

So we're probably going to fully move off of Drip eventually because Drip is going in the direction of being an E commerce platform. So they're really, really gearing all of their feature set towards E comm people.

Which I saw Andrew Chaperone talked about it in a blog post. And also Brennan Dunn just moved to. He moved to ConvertKit, but I think he struggles a little bit there right now. At the time we are recording this because it's not. So it's not as advanced to everything, but you could do most things. But activecampaign definitely you can do a lot of things if you're like, you know, you geek out on marketing automation.

Definitely Active campaigns, I nerd out on that kind of stuff. And like, I just, I don't know why it took us so long to get on board. But Thrive Architect is freaking amazing. Like, we've used Click. We have a ClickFunnels account, we have a LeadPages account, we have a Convertory account, we have, you name it optimizepress. We've got them all. And just recently we started using like the Thrive Suite. Of tools, you know, like they've got something called Thrive Ultimatum, which is kind of the same kind of concept as Deadline Funnel.

It's similar, it's just not as. I don't think it's a robust, but it's pretty solid, you know.

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Yes. But you know that Thrive Architect, like I've been able to get the site looking exactly the way I want where clickfunnels, you know, you're kind of. They have some predefined things.

They have some really good stuff. That's kind of what we're seeing as well. The reason I asked also Stu's team recently, Stu McLaren, because they used clickfunnels. I was like, why did you choose this? They were like, so we can make changes quickly and stuff like that on the fly. And the pages actually load a lot faster with clickfunnels because on Amazon server. So there's kind of some pros and cons. Definitely the builder is a lot better in Thrive architecture. So if you care about that, it's a ton better. You can't even compare the builder and clickfunnels.

Yeah, no, it's interesting because we ran speed tests I think before and after and I think we're currently getting better speeds on Thrive than we are on.

Okay, interesting. Maybe your site is just good optimized.

Well, we're using, try to, you know, we're using a fairly optimized dedicated server hosting company that's optimized for WordPress and all of the, all of the files run off of a, like a, A CDN content delivery network. So it's kind of similar as if these files were hosted on Amazon. Like we're kind of getting the same end result.

They're separate.

I'm using WP engine, so I'm using. But I'm not on a dedicated plan. I'm paying still like a few like $2,500 a year or something for like 25 sites. Whatever I have. So it's still quite pricey. But I'm sure if you pay for a dedicated, it must be quite even more. Maybe in that case. Or maybe you have a good, good deal as well with the company you're sitting.

Yeah, I think we pay like 200amonth.

Ish.

Or something. We use a company called Presidium.

Presidium.

Presidium is the company we use and they're very similar to WP Engine, as in like their only WordPress hosting. So you can't go and install like third party scripts just like through FTP or anything.

Sure, yeah.

But, yeah, we're kind of getting in the weeds on that there.

Some people love that.

Yeah.

It's just the tech stack question. Something kind of new that we've been introducing, especially when it's like a very practical episode like this where people can go and implement some stuff.

Yeah.

So I think it helps a lot. And we'll link everything in the show notes like we always do, and you be the decision maker if you want to do Click Funnels or Thrive.

I feel like people who list to our podcast, their heads probably spin because, like, we just constantly test and use different tools. So like an episode six months ago, we're probably raving about how good ClickFunnels is and why everybody needs it and.

They released a new feature or maybe they revamp their builder. You know, you never know with these things. Obviously they have the money to do it if they want to, but see what happens with it.

It's true.

So, you know, anybody who's listening, get the tools that sound best for your situation. Don't always listen to us because we test different tools all the time.

That's right.

I'm kind of a little bit the same. I'm testing different things, but I try to kind of stick with at least the same kind of tools I've recommended for a while. I mean, although I might. You know, we haven't used clickfunnels as much, but now I'm testing it out because I wanted to kind of see it for some. You know, if you have both. You have Thrive Architect and ClickFunnels and both work. It's just a matter of, you know, choose your preference and also matter of what you can afford as well, depending on. In your. Where you are in your business currently.

Nobody talks about leadpages anymore?

Well, yeah.

No one.

Yeah.

I mean, we still have a leadpages account, but we're literally. We bought the annual plan and I think we have like five more months, but we're slowly migrating all of our pages that are on LeadPages off of LeadPages and over to Thrive Architecture.

Why aren't they moving away from leadpages anyway? Like it's. I thought you mentioned something. I don't know. It doesn't seem like the big focus over there anyway, but who knows? That's our selection. Yeah. No, I'm going to ask the question, Matt.

Go for it. You asked the question, Joe.

Another rapid question.

Books.

Are there any things that you end up recommending to your friends or do you just read often that Just impact you big time.

Yeah, I mean I recently actually I just got a book that is on my desk now. Actually I haven't read the full book yet. I've just started it. But it's Ryan Levesque just released a great book is called Choose. I think I actually gave it to my girlfriend because she wants to start a business and stuff like that. It's called choose the single most important decision before starting your business. I think that obviously Ryan Levesque has the book Ask from before that was kind of, you know, after you choose your market then you ask the question. So that's kind of, you know, came before his book too. So it's a little interesting. So now kind of the first book in his. In his series that came. That came just came out and it's really good actually.

So yeah, that's what I've been hearing.

To check that out. It just came out in Amazon or whatever. I just picked it up the other day.

What should we ask him because we're going to be talking to him in two days on the podcast.

I was going to say we actually are interviewing Ryan Levesque in two days. Although Ryan's episode will actually air before yours because of the way we're setting up the timing. But we are interviewing Ryan in two days.

Yeah.

I have also injury with him coming up pretty soon. So that's cool.

Yeah, I heard the book is amazing and I've ordered it. It's in shipping right now, so I haven't even read it yet. But all the stuff I've heard from it. It's a good book and Ask was amazing.

Good feedback for sure. I've heard it for sure.

Cool, cool, cool, man. So where would you want people to go after listening to this episode?

I mean listbillingschool.com is a great place if they want to check out more about list building kind of how be running the summits. But other than that, my website, navidmoasses.com is a good place. We have a lot of blog posts and stuff there and some free resources as well. Around the web you can also type just Google Virtual Summit Virtual Summit Mastery and you'll find a bunch of stuff basically from me usually when you do that depending on what you're interested in. But definitely list building school would be a good place. That's also you can see how you're running things behind the scenes and see how we're doing. Go through the funnel as well. Encourage you. I'm sure you can put an affiliate link or something for this.

Yeah, we'll definitely, you know, when the summit gets closer, we'll definitely have a link in the show notes to that summit.

Well, hey, the best way to learn is to go through someone else's funnel, especially if you're interested in doing.

Yeah, I encourage you. Just funnel hack me. Actually just do it. Let's go through.

As long as you buy every product along the way, right?

Yeah, a few, but we'll see. We don't try to not do too much for the summit. We just kind of want to have the value there. But this definitely is a good. We have come out. I just spoke to myself team at the time. We recording this today. Actually, we have a killer kind of upsell offer for people who just kind of go through it. It will be amazing.

So sweet. We'll link that up.

Looking forward to it. Thank you very much for being on the show and spending the time with us.

For sure. It was a pleasure.

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