Neil Patel - Content Strategies To Grow Your Online Brand

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Welcome back to the show.

The Hustle and Flowchart show with Joe Fear and Matt Wolf.

And Neil Patel is our guest.

Neil Patel is our guest.

Dude, we gotta sing more often.

Was that singing?

I mean, that's the extent of the singing. I want to hear from you.

Yeah, I'm not sure anybody listening would have considered that singing. It was more like melodic talking.

Oh, okay. We could do that more then.

Yeah. Melodic talking.

What if we did our interviews that way? That'd make them probably a lot more interesting.

So tell me about yourself.

I grew up in San Diego.

No, I wasn't. I wasn't literally asking.

Oh, you don't want to hear my story? No.

You know whose story I do want to hear?

Neil Patel.

I want to hear Neil Patel's story, who we had on the show. This is.

Yeah. Okay, so today we have Neil Patel.

Today we have Neil Patel. And this. This was an interesting interview. And. And I'll tell you why. So we love Neil. We love Quick sprout. We love neilpatel.com. we love. Suggest.

We grew up basically in our marketing, learning from him.

Yeah, we were. We've been reading Quick Sprout for a long, long, long time. But I will say this was probably one of the more difficult interviews we've done. You know, Neil's great. We would never say anything bad about him, but we did have a little bit of a struggle pulling, you know, any sort of the depth answers out of him. We kind of asked a lot of questions, and you'll hear us trying to dig deeper and deeper on some of these questions and kind of get real short answers. So we were really trying to dig deep for you, but we kind of. We were having a hard time getting a lot out of him with our questions. But, you know, that doesn't take away from the episode. There is some gold nuggets in here. You know, we talk about ubersuggest software that he's involved in. We talk about how Quick Sprout got started. We talk about some SEO things to think about and how to get backlinks on your. On your website for SEO. We talk about. What else do we talk about, Joe? We do cover a lot of ground in it.

We talked a lot about. I was just letting you get all the talking that out of your brain first. We talked about. Yeah, I mean, we talked about Reddit, Quora, all the ways that he kickstarts content and he's an organic content guy, so he's not even like really touching ads, which is really cool. Talked about his podcast marketing school and how that fits in.

We talked about dealing with haters.

Yeah, that's true. And how he and his grind, like his work ethic, that's actually what I respect about him the most. And you'll hear us talk about it. But he is a grinder every day. And even right before we started the call, he was like up just getting work done, you know, just grinding away. I'm like, that's, it's cool because that is him. And if you look at his blog, like he's got the most in depth content, most consistent. He's got podcasts that are daily. Like he's everywhere. And he said that, you know, and.

He has YouTube videos and he's making it all himself. He's not outsourcing the writing or anything.

Once a week. Yeah. And we ask him. So yeah, it's, I mean, mad respect for the work ethic and just like the tenacity that he's been at for years. Like I don't know when he started. Yeah, I mean, literally, we've been reading probably back since like 2012. Ish, 13 maybe.

Yeah, I mean, I don't remember when I first discovered Quick Sprouts, but we've been reading it for a long time. That was kind of our SEO traffic bible for a long time. So a lot of love, a lot of respect for Neil. We've been wanting him to get on the show for a long, long time. We only had a 30 minute window with him, so this is a shorter than normal episode, but we'd love to hear your thoughts on it again, Neil Patel. Awesome, awesome stuff. Also, if you want the notes on this episode, we did take notes for you, go to hustle and flowchart.com comp. That's where you can get the notes on this episode. If you want to support the show and make sure that we keep on putting out great, amazing episodes and bringing on great guests, you can actually support the show over@egplettter.com we'll actually send you a print newsletter, but that's also your way to ongoingly support the show and let us know that you love what we're doing. And we appreciate every single member who signed up and you get access to our community and our training videos and that monthly newsletter and all sorts of cool stuff.

Basically, it's all the cool stuff that we're up to. We Shove it in this community. Exactly. And then it's a good little Q and A area too, for all these shows.

Yep. And if you just want the notes for just this one right now, go to hustleandflowchart.com comp. Let's go have a quick chat with Neil Patel.

Hey, Neil, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, man. So you were. It was a Roland connection, actually. Roland Frazier, mutual buddy of ours. And we ended up, I think the first time we actually, I think we saw you live on stage back at a trafficking conversion up in San Francisco years ago.

Sounds about right.

Yeah, I don't know if you remember that one. I think it was on stage with a ton of people. Tim Ferriss was there and. Yeah, all sorts of interesting folks.

We've been following you for a long time with quicksprout back in the day and your blog and you have your podcast now, Marketing school. So, content machine, what are you up to these days? So I know you're doing a lot and so maybe take us back on a quick backstory, not too long and we'll just kind of get into some tactical stuff people can take.

Yeah, so I'm working on ubersuggest these days.

Free marketing tool that just helps you get more rankings. Have ad agency, Neil Patel Digital. But in general, I just love anything marketing related and helping people grow their traffic.

Yeah, cool.

How did you get into marketing in the first place? What was kind of the genesis and what got you excited about it?

Well, so back in the day when I was 16 or so, I was trying to find a better paying job. I was searching monster.com, i didn't qualify for all the high paying jobs because I didn't have a college degree. So I decided to do the next best thing, which was to create a copycat of Monster.com and help other people find a job. And I paid a few marketing firms to help me out. They provided little to no results. And from being broke and frustrated, I eventually had to learn how to do it on my own.

Nice. What was the name of that site?

Just a advice monkey.

Advice monkey. Okay.

Does that still exist today?

No, it doesn't exist at all.

So what is the genesis of quicksprout? How did that come to be and why did you decide to start teaching what you were doing in the marketing world?

Yeah, so I had an ad agency back in the day and I had a blog on, you know, at an ad agency back in the day before my current one, Neil Patel Digital. And I decided to Blog on marketing to try to get customers because I couldn't afford to do paid advertising.

And Quick Sprout, you know, was a good feed into it and then eventually decided to turn it into a software company with a few partners that didn't work out. Not because of the partners or anything like that, just people didn't want to pay for the software. And at the same time I was blogging on neilpatel.com and that became more of a marketing personal blog for me due to the fact that I had my name in it. So then I switched my efforts to neilpatel.com and then my brother in law, Heathenshawn took over Quicksprout and now he runs it with a team of two other people.

Wow. I remember, yeah, very clearly back in the day. I think it was like five years ago. I think you guys put out on Quicksprout like the most epic long form guides for free. I forget what they were called now, but they were designed beautifully. The content was better than most products that were for sale. And I was just like, how the hell is this guy doing this? It's amazing.

I did it by spending more money and losing more money. But it was fun. I enjoyed it.

Yeah, well, when you hit on an interesting point where you said you couldn't afford traffic at that point in the beginning. So you blogged and still to this day it seems like that's the prevalent form of your content. With the podcast, even too is another iteration of the content.

Is that still kind of the core thing you are always focused on with your content, all of your properties, blogging, kind of this SEO rich type content.

It is, it's driven a lot of leads for us. It's kind of funny because I was talking to the CEO and my co founder of my ad agency, Mike, and Mike's just like, we got to figure out outbound sales. He's like, we're going to figure it out this year. And I'm like, dude, outbound sales is really hard. He's just like, man. He's just like, what are you talking about? He's like, most ad agencies generate the revenue through outbound sales. He's like, we're one of the few that gets a ton of inbound leads. He's like, we did what they're trying to do. And he's like, you're telling me it's going to be really hard to replicate what almost everyone else does. I'm like, good point.

I mean, that's the thing. You guys have spread the deck it seems like so well. I love when you go to neilpatel.com, you have these selections, kind of four steps, and you're taking people down not only a path, but it's all very content driven, everything you're doing.

What was the motivation behind ubersuggest? Because I believe you guys acquired that one, right? That wasn't one you built from scratch.

I didn't build it from scratch, so I acquired it, I believe, at the end of 2017. Maybe I could be wrong on the date. I think it was sometime in 2017.

And I was just acquiring it to generate more leads. And then eventually, when I acquired it, not everyone loves me in the marketing community. The traffic tanked right away. Once people found out I acquired it, like, almost by 40%. And then the moment I released stuff for free that they pay for, people are like, oh, we love you, Neil. And then traffic went back up, and then I started releasing more stuff people pay for for free. And traffic has just been on a tear since.

Why do you think the people in the marketing community didn't. Didn't like that? Was it they didn't like the fact that you're putting something out there for free or they didn't like you because of something prior to ubersuggest?

I have a ton of haters, for whatever reason it may be. I don't know. I don't. It doesn't really bother me. I just keep pushing forward.

Yeah, I love it, man. You just have your head down like you said when I started the call. You're just like, just cracking away at work every year.

And I think, yeah, it's just like, I don't let little things like that bother me. No, you're never going to love everyone now. I don't have that big of a brand, but, like, you look at, like, a Gary Vaynerchuk. He's an amazing guy, but how many people probably hate him? A ton.

Yeah. So how do you. So do you choose just to not look at everything or do you just have, like a thick skin where you're just like, I'm good.

Both. I don't look at everything and I have thick skin. And, you know, it's funny, I was listening to Gary V podcast episode a long time. He's like, I love my haters. They motivate me. And that's a good approach. One of my buddies, Tim Sykes, is similar. I just take the model of I just keep my head down and work, and I don't really pay attention to, you know, what's happening in this space. So like for example, a good, a great example of this is one of my guys, Grant, last week hit me up and he's just like, hey, someone created a YouTube video about you calling him out. And I'm like, I called someone out in a YouTube video and it was a video on how I said content isn't king. And in the video they were just like, yeah, you know, indirectly he was calling me. I forgot the guys names on it. They seem like great guys and I don't know them at all, but you know, they probably are amazing people. And I was like, yeah, cool, ignore it. And I didn't even listen to it. And then my podcast co host yesterday, Eric, sent me a link. He's like, check this out. He's like, these guys are saying you're calling them out. And I didn't mention them in my video. I didn't even know about them until my team sent it to me. But like, I don't really care what people say. I just keep pushing forward and just doing what I do.

That's, I mean, yeah, and I'm sure. Was that something you've always had as pushing through? Because I know a lot of entrepreneurs and I mean you hear even like big time celebrities and comedians getting destroyed when they see like one negative content comment, you know, about something you put out. Was that just like, just, you just don't give a shit. You're just like, I'm creating the best content. Beat me.

Yeah, well, I do like looking at negativity. If someone tells me I'm doing a poor job and they can tell me how I can get better, I love that. I thrive off that because that helps me produce better content, better product, better service. If someone just says, you suck, I'm like, cool, sounds good. Tell me why. They can't tell me why then. I don't care because I just look to improve. So my philosophy is don't get bogged down by people saying negative stuff more. So take that negativity and if you can improve, improve if you can't, because it's just opinions and there's nothing you can use to make yourself better, then keep moving on.

Yeah, very objective. And it's like, if you have something objective to say, then cool, I'll listen to you. That makes sense. Well, with like everything you guys are doing with your content, is there one that you feel is like the perfect opportunity for listeners here? When it comes to content marketing, you have the blog, you have podcast, videos, all sorts of stuff. Where do you Think someone listening has the best success to either extend their brand into a new platform or medium or maybe start something fresh.

So you're saying where should they get started? Like, extend their. Like, where's the biggest opportunity is it to write more content? Try out podcasting instead?

Exactly. Just for discoverability and to be, you know, plant their brand in a position that you see is just the best place to be right now.

Yeah. So I see it right now as video is the future. It's great for discoverability. SEO is great. The biggest potential for SEO that most people don't leverage is just updating content. If you can update everything more often, you'll find that your old content will rank much higher. Podcasting hasn't taken off as much as I've liked in the United States, but give another three to five years and I believe it will.

Cool. And what do you see with. Because I know podcast is interesting right now with Google starting to rank the podcasts and they're actually transcribing in the.

Back end and whatnot now too.

Yeah. So where do you see that evolution? Because we're like super big proponents on the podcasting front, but totally agree with what you said. It's like, still got some years ahead of it to really go big time. Where do you see like the podcast medium shaping up when it comes to Google and SEO and all that stuff?

Yeah.

I think there's more traffic that's going to be had. It's just going to take time. And I don't think the biggest travel will come from Google search. I think over time will start coming from people more who are driving in their car. Alexa, Google home, stuff like that.

Gotcha.

Cool. So I want to, I want to shift into maybe talking about some, like, some. Some kind of tactical sort of things. I know one of the things that you're sort of most known for is content marketing, SEO type things. What. What would be, in your opinion, kind of the 80, 20 that people should focus on when it comes to SEO and content marketing? Like, where's. Where's the kind of beginning place people should be focused on?

The beginning place people should be looking at is keyword research. If you're picking the wrong keywords that no one cares about, you're screwed. And that's the biggest thing that people just start writing without doing their research first. And if you do your research first, it makes a world of difference.

Do you have a process for research that you tend to use or are you just kind of getting into ubersuggest and some of These other tools and just kind of looking around and trying to find keywords. I mean, what's your process for digging out the gold?

Yeah, my process right now is I go to Ubersuggest, I type in a keyword, I head over to the content ideas report. It shows me all the popular blog posts that are around that topic based off of social shares, backlinks and search traffic. And that's what I use to determine what I should write more on and what I should write less on.

Gotcha. And are you writing all the content yourself or do you do some outsourced writing? What's your process for that?

I just write myself. I typically write every Saturday and then I'll publish on Tuesday, so I only write once a week.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

And what's like a, what's a length? Because I think you probably are the most consistent, lengthy content writer out there. What, is there a certain number, you know, word count you're shooting for and kind of end result there with each piece?

Most of my blog posts are around 2,000 words.

Okay.

And I found that to do well. I found if you write a 10,000 word blog post, there's no guarantee that you're going to get more traffic. Once my 2000 word blog posts start ranking, I'll go in, adjust them, rewrite them, and make them like 10,000 words.

Okay, so all those guides and things you did back in the day.

That'S all kind of like a combo of different things you might have put together over the years. It sounds like, since you're constantly refreshing things too.

Exactly.

Okay, now what do you do once a piece of content is live? How do you sort of kickstart it? How do you get those initial eyeballs on a piece of new content?

So I hit up everyone else who's linked to my competing articles and I just ask them to link to mine. And most people ignore me, but I still try. And then what I'll do is I'll look at all the people who I linked out to in my blog post emailing. I'm letting them know I linked out to them and be like, hey, if you like it, feel free and share the post on your favorite social network. And then Buzzsumo has this feature called View Sharers. I'll see who shared my competitors articles and then I will hit those people up and tell them how I have a similar article and how mine's different. And if they like it, feel free and share.

Nice. So it's very organic and it's outreach and it's not maybe the sexiest stuff, but it's just like, it just seems like consistent efforts with everything you do. Same with the podcast. That's a daily show, correct?

Yeah, I just believe in grinding, right? Yeah. Going every single day, push hard and all those little things add up. There's not one thing that's going to make it or break it. It's just doing a lot of little stuff and doing it consistently.

Yeah.

Are you ever doing any sort of paid amplification on new pieces of content?

Very rarely. Sometimes I'll boost posts on Facebook, but not too often.

See, that's cool. I mean, I love hearing that. That's not really a big crucial part of your, your business at all. It sounds like what's the like going down. You mentioned Ubersuggest and BuzzSumo. Like what are some other tools in your, in your tool chest there that you tend to go to on a consistent basis?

Google Analytics. I like looking at traffic. Seeing what's done well in the past gives me ideas what to do more in the future. I like looking at Google trends. It shows me what's hot.

Buzzsumo. I mentioned that, but yeah, those are some of the main tools that I use on a regular basis.

Got it. And in analytics, like you said, you're looking at different things. Are there certain? Because I know in analytics, a lot of folks, if they don't have a question in their mind going into it, just like, holy crap, what am I looking at? Or what am I looking for? Do you have questions in your mind when you're going into analytics and looking for these trends or trying to spot something?

Yeah. So some of the big things that I really look for when I'm going into analytics is I optimize for a cohort. So repeat usage. Well, it says cohort analysis. And I keep trying to figure out ways how can I get people back, you know, every single week. Because like, if I look at my cohort after three months, in essence, pretty much zero percent of my traffic comes back.

So I'm trying to fix that and make that where. How can I end up making it where after? And you could end up saying, no, you have some people who come back. But when you look at the grand scheme that things is so negligible, it's not that many people. I'm trying to fix it where I'm like, alright, here's how I can get 3%, 5% because that makes a huge difference.

Yeah. I mean, because I'm on your site actually now and you're always testing New things, which is cool. And like you have the spin to win thing that's. It's like a very similar looking thing to like a Shopify type store. But I feel like you're always testing these things as an attempt to probably do exactly what you're doing there. Are there any things.

That you've found that just work really well consistently to keep boosting up the return of the cohort?

Yeah, I keep testing out. Collecting emails. Push notifications have helped tremendously. The other thing that has helped quite a bit is alerts and notifications. I tested that a little bit. Like, I'm a marketing blog. Why can't I have people put in their website and just start emailing them some of the things that are wrong that they can fix over time?

Yeah, that's. I think I remember seeing that. Yeah, it was like an analyzer or something like that. And then from there, yeah, you could follow up. That's what it seems like you're doing with ubersuggest as well. It's just another. It's like another legion, very effective tool that people are just gonna pretty much love you for, ideally, you know, turn those haters around.

Have you experimented with like, messenger bots and things like that to bring people back as well?

I have done quite a bit with Facebook messenger that's worked well. But yeah, messenger bots have worked. I'm just afraid that Facebook's gonna screw it up in the long run. Honestly. Screwed up, but just put so many restrictions that it's not as effective. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sure. What do you. What do you use for the push notifications? What do you like for that?

I use subscribers and it works well for me because they have a lot of good segmentation features. And for someone like me, I have people coming from different regions and stuff like that. So it's really important that I'm able to do all the segmentation and stuff because it's like I have a Portuguese version on my blog. Right. So all that needs to be thought out and, you know, done carefully.

Yeah, gotcha.

Now, are there any, like, major mistakes that you see often? Maybe when you're working with clients or things like that, that you're constantly telling people, all right, knock that off.

No, everyone does a ton of different mistakes. We don't see one common mistake.

Gotcha. Any come to mind that? Just that you're like, dude, don't do that kind of thing.

Maybe not a common mistake, but maybe like a fatal mistake that you see often?

Not so much because the web has Been around for such a long time. There's a lot of good practices, people writing about them. We just see people. The biggest thing we see people is they're all not. And this isn't necessarily a mistake, but they're looking for a silver bullet instead of just fixing all the little things.

That makes sense and that goes back to your grind. It sounds like just always being consistent with everything. Now I'm kind of curious with the whole grind thing because listeners are always trying to figure out, okay, where do I apply my time and then how to do that in an effective way to not work throughout the night. What does a week look like? How do you plan your time? Is it in a week? Form, day, form? What does that kind of look like?

Daily I look at my day, what it's going to be before I go to sleep the previous day. But yeah, all my stuff is done daily. My assistant plans out calls, meetings. But yeah, that's most of my day is calls, meetings and stuff like that.

Gotcha. Do you have any, do you have any like long term, big vision goals that you're shooting for? Anything on the horizon that you're. You're really excited about?

No.

Well, it depends if it's. If this is considered a goal or not. But I believe one day I can use machine learning and artificial autonomous to.

Not just optimize, but run most of SEO campaigns out there. I can put a computer that does most of the SEO for you and all automatic, so you don't even have to do it.

Got it. So is that maybe something that would be an ubersuggest one day?

Yeah, it'll probably be an ubersuggest. My goal is to roll something like that out. Q1 of 2020.

Oh, nice. Very cool, man. So where do you see AI playing a part with content? You have SEO helping you there. Do you see it as part of helping you write the content or do you not trust it? Like, where does the future look like?

So the future for me when it comes to.

SEO and content is not that a human can, a robot can end up writing it as good because I don't know how you make the computer as creative and maybe you don't need to. But the way I look at it is as you're writing it tells you what keywords to add, how to adjust your headlines, things like that.

That sounds interesting. Yeah. So I was listening to Naval Ravikant on Joe Rogan the other day and he was talking kind of a lot about that. And the creativity is the thing that won't go away. Like the machines aren't going to take that over anytime soon. But I like what you said there with the prompts and giving you good ideas of maybe backlinks to other posts that you've had or other outside keywords to use.

Exactly.

That'd be cool.

Are there any big third party platforms that you like to leverage to help drive traffic or awareness around your brand? Things like Quora or Red, Reddit or Medium? Are there anything, anything in those sort of realms that you're excited about or experimenting with right now?

I use them all. I'll use Quora, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. I even upload videos to IGTV. You know, Reddit, whatever it may be. Pinterest. We leverage everything, even if it barely gets you anything. Something's better than nothing.

Have you seen any of those kind of get a little more traction than maybe you were anticipating going into it?

Yeah.

You know Quora, not as much as I thought. Their numbers and analytics show you're getting a lot of traction, but the reality is you're not getting as much traction as they're showing. Reddit's always been good, but yeah, most of stuff just isn't.

Doesn't provide the results like the big channels like LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter.

Yeah.

What do you see and work well on LinkedIn? Are you, are you posting just to your wall? Are you writing long form articles on LinkedIn polls? How has LinkedIn been working for you?

Tried all of that. We've found that videos being uploaded to LinkedIn provide the best results.

Nice.

That's interesting. James Schramko was saying the same thing. Talked to him about it.

That has been said before. Yeah. And how about Reddit? Because that's something that we're kind of pretty bullish on. We're testing all sorts of things, even ads on there. How's your workflow look like there?

It's not bad. Reddit and us, it doesn't work as well for people like me because they don't like the SEO community. But yeah, Reddit works well. Product hunt works great. If you're releasing new products. Reddit ads are really affordable, at least for the time being.

Yeah, for now, that's for sure. Before they're overrun by a ton of marketers like those listening.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So let's talk about the podcast really quick. So it's a daily show. You have your co host Eric with you and it's called Marketing School. Where do you see. Is that just going to. Is that another long term thing? Essentially just more for discoverability, bringing people back more consistently?

No, we just do that for fun, really.

Do you have any special process behind the podcast? Like with us, for example, we release two episodes a week, and we batch record four episodes twice a month. So two days a month. We're recording four episodes two days a month. Do you have any sort of process where you're batching them or how are you keeping up with such a steady schedule on that?

Eric and I definitely batch record, and we do it based on whenever we're free, based on our schedules, which is kind of hectic. And then someone I don't even know who posts daily, I'm guessing is someone on his team.

Okay, so you guys are. Got it. You run completely different companies and. And. And then come together for the podcast then.

Correct.

Gotcha. Okay, so what gets you so, like, both of you guys so jacked up for the podcast? Like, it sounds like you just love doing it. Is there something specifically in there?

No, it's just fun. Eric and I have been friends for a long time, so we just do it for fun.

Right. I mean, that's really why this whole show started in the first place. And then we just choose to bring on some guests to kind of exchange new ideas around, so it's. I feel like more and more people are starting to do that too.

Do you ever have guests on your show, or is yours always just you two? You guys kind of feeding off each other?

No, we just enjoy feeding off each other and then going from there. Sweet. But, yeah, we haven't really done guest stuff.

Yeah, it's a totally different thing. Yeah, the whole riffing back and forth thing.

Interesting, man. Yeah. So I'm just thinking, like, what's your vision for. So you have ubersuggest. That's interesting. Any of these other assets in your company, the different sasses you own?

Let me ask you this. Do you still run kissmetrics? Are you still involved in that, or is that one that you've sold?

No, the company pretty much folded.

Oh, okay.

Okay, Gotcha. Okay. So, I mean, in the future, it sounds like it's more the same. Unless I'm wrong with ubersuggest and keeping the content up.

Exactly. So keep pushing. We'll do the same and see what happens, you know?

Yeah.

No, I love it. Consistency is king.

Yeah. Are you now. Are you.

Are you or anything? I just keep pushing forward and whatever happens, happens.

Yeah.

Cool. I love it. Just kind of go with the flow and see how it all unfolds. Are you a big reader? Do you Have.

I guess that's my first question. Do you read a lot of books?

I don't read a lot of books. I read a lot of articles on the Internet, though. Probably like three, four hours worth a day.

Is there anything. Typically at the end of the show, we always ask people for maybe a book recommendation or two, but maybe, maybe you have like a blog or an article recommendation.

I do read books, just not often. Like, I may only read like, 10, 15 books a year.

Okay. Any. Any. Any of those just kind of stand out. Maybe you recommend it often.

I love Principles by Ray Dalio. And if you're too lazy to read the book because it's a big book, download the app.

Yeah, the app is amazing and it's super interactive, too. It's.

He runs ads for the app, too, which is quite interesting because there's no money for him to be made. But again, he's Ray Dalio and doesn't really need the money.

Right?

That's true.

It's the best. In terms of articles, I'm curious, are there specific places you're going to on a consistent basis, or do you just have, like a feedly type account where you're just getting all sorts of interesting stuff?

I read TechCrunch a ton. I read Economist. I'll read BBC, I'll read CNN. But yeah, I'm just. I'll all over the board. Some tech sites, even like marketing sites like Search Engine Land, Search Engine Roundtable, but it's a bit of everything.

Cool. Do you use, like, a feed reader to keep up with all that, or you just kind of checking in on all the websites every day?

No, I just check in and go to the sites. Cool.

Keeping it simple. I love it.

Sweet. So we want to be respectful of your time. I know you've got some time restrictions here, so NeilPatel.com is your main site, and then you. You've got Ubersuggest.com. is there anywhere else you'd want to send people anything else you'd want our listeners to check out? After listening to this episode, check out.

My ad agency, Neil Patel Digital.

Neil Patel Digital. And that's@neilpatel digital.com.

Yep. Cool.

So we will link everything in the show. Notes. Neil. Thank you for your time, man.

Thanks. Bye.

All right, bye.

Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a CliffsNotes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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