Nic Peterson - The Base Case & Chill Method For Passive Crypto Income

It's the crypto changes the math. The solvable problem plus crypto being a tool, it changes the math to where you can really realize I could never sell anything to anyone again and I'm still going to be just fine. That really allows you to just be yourself. And funny enough, oftentimes when you do that, a whole bunch more money comes at you.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy.

My boy, Matt Wolf.

Joe Fairy.

Hey, hey. Welcome back to Hustle and Flowchart. This is our first episode back since our little January hiatus, and today we're bringing back Nick Peterson. He was the very first person we did a rewind episode with back at the very beginning of January. People begged for us to bring him back. So we have him back in this episode. Now, Nick is the founder of Wulff Den Crypto. He is also the creator of the Night Swap decentralized exchange. And in this episode, we're going to talk to him about how that exchange came to be, how Wulff Den crypto came to be, why people don't worry about the price of the various tokens that he sells to people, how to stop checking your crypto prices so much, the meaning of base case and chill, and actually how to create fairly passive income from crypto.

We're going to talk about why everyone.

Fails in crypto and what to do about it. We're going to talk about the importance of TVL when operating in crypto. And we might even touch on Nick's little dixicle project. That didn't come out right, but I'm gonna leave it in anyway. All right, let's go. Jump over to Nick. Before we do, quick reminder, if you're not following us on Twitter, I'm Matt Rwolf on Twitter. Joe is Joe Fear on Twitter. And join us in the Discord. Hustleandflowchart.com Discord if you come hang out with us in the Discord, we answer questions, we chat with you, we share what we're looking into, what we're up to right now, lots of good intel and insights into the various projects and things that we're excited about. So make sure you're following us over at hustle and flowchart.com discord and that's it. Let's go talk to Nick Peterson.

Nick, you're back. It's round two, the encore. I don't know how. What was it, two years ago or so? First episode.

I probably should have put that in.

My notes, but I didn't well, thank you everyone. Who's live right now. We got Nick. We actually. Yeah, we released the first episode in one of our encore in the Encore series. It was the first one of the year actually, so had a whole bunch of people in the Discord and I could see some folks like Dwayne Moffet, got Alex in here. Have a whole bunch of people that have been preaching the Nick in our discord and communities. You're shaking your head.

It's crazy. It's wild.

True story.

We do have a. In our. In our hustle and flowchart Discord. We have a channel called Super Alpha and we only have like, you know, there's only maybe 15 people in it, but it's where we share the best of the best stuff. And I would say at least 50% of that channel is talking about the sort of night swap ecosystem. Coins, the various, you know, wolfies and guard. And lately it was the Spartan token and all of that kind of stuff. It's like the Super Alpha channel is mostly filled with stuff that Nick Peterson has his fingers in.

That brings me so much joy. Just because we'll probably get into it, just how it all came about. It's entertaining for sure.

I'd love to hear the story. Yeah, let's close the gap a little bit. I know you're all about shortening the gap and collapsing time, which I got to give you credit because Nick Smiths. If you didn't watch Nick Smith's 2021, I was there every day, 12 days. I think he even had a bonus day or two. Thing was frickin mind blowing, dude. So it reached me at the right time. It seemed like it reached a ton of other folks as well at the right time. I would say it even helped our business when it comes to big thing was open loops that I took away and just creating just this space for the right stuff to find and find its way in. And that's exactly what we've done in so many ways in our business. And now it's just insane. The crazy opportunities and scalable things that we just weren't even aware of that just showed up in our lives over the last month. So I credit you for that and that whole mental model and way of thinking.

I appreciate that. That's great to hear. It's great to hear. I don't have a lot of. I did all of Nick Smith's, as you guys know, just streaming to YouTube. So the feedback loop's a little delayed. Typically I have people live and all that stuff.

So, yeah, man. But Nick. Yeah. Since the last time we chatted, we've had a lot of your buddies on as well, Jeff Spencer. And I know he's come up so many times. He actually emailed us this morning. I was like, man, he's such a great guy. So I thank you for bringing him into this crew. But catch us up a little bit. Since, I mean, this last year, it seems like you did some big pivots into crypto and kind of learning on the fly there.

Yeah, yeah, definitely learning on the fly. Definitely learning on the fly. It's interesting because I tell people all the time, or the dialogue we have is, man, you pivot a lot. And then how do you do so many different things in so many different industries and so many different, you know, and I got to step back because to me it's the same thing. It's the same thing over and over. If you read bumpers, right, which I wrote way before I was really into crypto, it would. In your. My crypto world, and you read my book, you'd be like, oh, he wrote this for us. In crypto, the function and the principles and the concepts and kind of the operating system hasn't changed at all. The form has changed, you know, the language has changed, but it hasn't been a huge pivot. It's been, okay, well, you're here and you want to get here. These are the resources that you have. What's the most efficient path forward? It was that way in fitness, it was that way in business, it's that way in finance. And now it's that way using the blockchain as a tool. So it looks a lot different. But I roped in Dr. Jeff Spencer to all my business stuff. I rope him into all the crypto stuff because it is the same stuff. It just manifests differently. The thing that's fascinating about crypto is a combination of one, being blockchain and two, being super early. And three, just the massive attention that it's getting. The feedback loop is super tight, right? Like, you can be fearful and greedy and think you're rich and think you're poor all in a five minute span.

So that's why we're all not sleeping or highly anxious.

And yeah, okay, if you pay, like, if you really think about it and you're honest with yourselves, this was happening in business too. But you spent like three months thinking you were rich, and then three months thinking you were poor, and then three months of being greedy. So it's really just condensed everything down to have Tighter feedback loops and be able to recognize, learn more about yourself faster. It's been cool, but it's not a huge pivot.

Yeah, I got that impression when I was listening back to the first episode that we did together when I went back through and kind of did a re edit on them. And my game plan was to go back and edit it and go, okay, there's probably stuff in these older episodes that isn't relevant. So I'm going to go cut the stuff out that isn't relevant. Well, I didn't cut anything out because I felt like you could have been talking to us now in that episode. It was the same kind of concepts that we needed to hear now going into crypto. So I definitely feel that way. And yeah, Bumper is the same way. You read the book now and it's like, okay, this is. This is just as relevant today. And one concept that you talk about, and I've heard you talking about it during a lot of the Nicksmith stuff and a lot of the stuff you've been doing lately is your. Your concept of the base case. The base case and chill.

Right.

And the thing that you just said.

About how we go through this, all.

These range of emotions and it can happen in like five minutes where we're.

Fearful, we're greedy, we're rich, we're poor.

And that was, you know, that was the last 30 minutes. It sounds to me like the base case and chill. That whole philosophy, that way of thinking kind of solves that a little bit. Can maybe that. That's a good place to start. Can you break down what the base case and chill. What the hell I'm talking about when.

I say that is.

I'll give you guys an origin too, because a lot of the Wolf Den even doesn't know the origin. The base case I talk about all the time and people ask me a lot of detailed questions about my base case, which is not appropriate in my opinion because it's my base case. I'm sharing it with other people, but it's mine because it depends heavily on my unique disposition, my macro beliefs, the things that I'm willing to bet on. I'm betting on crypto long term. I am not going to try to convince anybody else to do that. But if you're also betting on crypto long term. Right. Then you know that about yourself. If you do not bet on crypto long term, it's still a good place to maybe get in, get some money and get out. But you have a different base case than I do, right? Your basic case is going to be in like US dollar or whatever Tesla stock. I don't know. The base case is at any given time. I'm here, I need to get here. This is what I know. What's the most efficient way to close the gap? And when I really deep dived in to crypto the first time, I realized that I believe I can reliably get 70% a year on just bitcoin alone. It doesn't mean it's going to go straight up. It means on average, year over year, I believe I get 70%. And so I was doing these small cap crypto things, right, like doing pre sales and all that. And I would put in like let's say 500 bucks, double it, flip the profit into bitcoin. So I was getting $500 a bitcoin a day. And if you run the math, that works out very, very well if my base case turns out to be true. The other part about that is we're always making space, right? Like I talk about nixmiths and we're being receptive and we're always saying, is there, is there information? Is there something missing? Is there a more efficient base case out there? I still have a very strong macro belief in bitcoin. It's not super helpful to other people though when you say, oh, don't worry, I know bitcoin's down, it'll go up, just trust me. So when I was looking at farming, I was looking at farming, I realized instead of pre sale, I can actually farm the $500 of Bitcoin a day pretty easily. So my macro belief's still in bitcoin, but I'm thinking like, look, I could farm it and for the other people around me, it's a little bit more palatable to see that number climb every day. So it eliminates right in crypto. From my perspective, if we can just stop people from doing dumb shit, they're probably going to be okay.

Minimize dumb shit and just focus on the consistent efforts, right?

Yeah. If they have a macro belief in crypto. If they don't have a macro belief in crypto, don't play there. So this was evolving. I woke up one morning, so I've always had a base case, which is I have a solvable problem. This is the gap. I believe I can get 70. Worst case scenario, I'll just go back to trading bitcoin. I believe I get 70%. So how can I find more reliable, more efficient things I have more control over? Can I decouple from the Macro market like we have. But my base case is, worst case, I'll get 70% of your own average in crypto. And everything else is just trying to make it easier, more reliable, risk adjusted, a better, a better return, risk adjusted, et cetera, et cetera. One of the ways to remove risk is it was like three in the morning and I keep thinking about incompetence and malice look identical. So how many of these people are scamming us and how many of them just aren't that good at what they do because they look the same? If I can discern that, I can make better decisions, remove some risk. And I just couldn't stop thinking about it. So I got the office like three in the morning on a Saturday. I just started trying to write a contract. And I realized writing the contract, it's tedious, but it's not difficult. So that didn't help. And I was like, I gotta launch this thing. I gotta see how a token goes live. Because I was, we were playing a lot of pre sales and launches and stuff at the time. And so I asked Kevin and a few others, the guy that writes all our Medium articles, legendary Medium articles. And I was like, guys, can you just put some money in this? If it blows up, I'll give it back. I just want to see what happens. And that was Wolfies. So I was live in Telegram, talking people through. Guys, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to try to add liquidity. It takes other projects like an hour to do this and I don't think it should, but let me find out like 90 seconds later. I was like, okay, I just added liquidity. So if somebody's taking an hour, they're probably doing something sketchy to the contractor. As I was just sharing this in real time. My belief is, what I've been telling people is the price of the token goes up when you stop focusing on the price of the token, right? Because if everybody's staring at the chart, there's only one thing they can do and that's sell it. It has to represent something more than the current US dollar value. Nobody wanted to listen because nobody. It's a weird thing to think about the price of the token not mattering. I launched the Wolf Dead, said I'm going to teach more stuff in here and the only way to get in is to buy and burn Wolfies so they get taken out of circulation. Wolfies went 12 15x from launch. Had no idea what I was doing because what was on the other side Inside of the wolf den meant more to them than the US dollar value of wolfies right now.

Right.

So that was Wolfie. Wolfie's is just a currency. But as we're, as we're teaching kind of this, this farming and this base case realized there is not an asset that can get higher returns like more than a stable that is designed specifically for this. So I'm pretty sure we could build an asset that would also become a really strong treasury asset. A long hold, but an asset designed specifically to pair with other things and generate yield. And that was Guardian. The, the other thing about Defi is and nobody knew who we were, we're like, we got turned down at every corner. And so finally it was Ape swap was like, yeah sure, we'll give you a farm and you know, we won't throw, you know that we, we talked to them, they said they won't throttle it down, the emissions will be reliable, yada yada yada. And they throttled our emissions down without telling us, which obviously impacts the base case. Right. So we went to baby swap. They said the same thing, they did the same thing. So it became like, all right, well in order to do this reliably, we also need to own the decentralized exchange. Again, everybody says the math won't work. You should not be able to get as much yield as we do out of guard. But because our holders are educated and protect the ecosystem, they're long term thinkers. Now as you guys know, I'm sure when the market crashed, the whole world was trying to figure out how did all of our stuff stay green. So it was just stepping into that base case. How do we make it more and more and more reliable? Apeswap in particular, we realized that there's one critical control point where this fails and that's if they cancel or throttle down this farm. And they said they wouldn't, but if they do, we're going to figure out if we really want to launch a Dex. That's a huge undertaking. And they did. So we did. Which is night. But that's, it's just a single process of removing risk. So some people like oh more and more projects, it's just getting harder to sustain. But we didn't maximize or we actually optimized to get there. So we plugged holes, we didn't like find a whole bunch of new buckets. We plugged all the holes in the current bucket. So it actually gets more and more sustainable as we roll these things up.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So it's almost like the whole point of investing in Guard, for instance, isn't necessarily to watch the price of Guard go up. It's because you know you're going to get these emissions of. Was it night tokens?

Right.

The night tokens is what the emissions are. So the people that are buying Guard, they're not going, I'm buying Guard because I want to see if Guard goes way up and. And stick and sell it when it goes up. They're buying Guard because they know they're going to essentially create an income stream by owning it and farming it.

And the creators of Guard, which is us, also created the dex, which determines the emissions.

I don't know if you guys have seen this. We've shared this. Sometimes we run a volatility index. So you can even go, all right, my solve a problem. 70%. I bought Knight at 55 cents and guard it, whatever. Even if both assets drew back 66%, I would still get 70% on the year. So now there's this huge range of. You don't have to watch the charts. So it's actually a risk adjusted. It's still a great return because none of those assets have ever drawn back 66%. So there's no evidence that it's possible. But even if it did, you'd be fine. So we're just creating this for the people that are willing to not be greedy. And I mean 70%, nobody needs more than that.

Let's be honest.

Yeah, we're just building the tools to all these tools that the developers don't understand because they swear they built something similar. All the math on blockchain makes sense, but the most important variable in all of these equations is the human behavior. So we spend most of the time just, hey, don't slow down, don't panic. Here's how you know if you need to change something, here's how you don't. And that changes the math in a way that nobody else in the blockchain can comprehend because they're just not considering humans as a variable. And that is probably the most dangerous variable, probably not one that we ignore.

Right? Yeah.

Well, I mean, you do see a lot of these rebase tokens, right? You've got like Olympus Dao and Wonderland and all these, which are currently all crashing to the ground at the moment as we speak. But you've got all of these ones where it's literally game theory is baked into what they built there. It's all based on this premise that if you keep on holding and I keep on holding, then we all win. But as soon as people start selling, it's bad for everybody.

There's a, there's a beautiful book, Filters Against Folly. It was written in like 1980 something. It's one of my favorite books of all time. And he dives deep into. It's a book, it's written by an ecologist and he dives deep into Tragedy of the Commons, where we have this much land. You take your share, I take my share, everybody's fine. And it just takes one person to think that they can get away with taking a tiny bit more than their share and it all goes to shit. It's a beautiful, beautifully written book. Probably half of it is that concept, the Tragedy of the Commons.

So, so I'm curious, how, how does night swap and the, the guard token, how, how does it do it differently where if, you know, one person in the mix decides, I'm going to put a lot in and then when the guard goes up a little bit, I'm pulling it all out. You know what, what's different about the platform that you've built that sort of prevents that technologically?

Nothing to be transparent. What's different is that probably 80% of the TVL doesn't care. It doesn't set off the same domino effect that it sets off in, in a standard because we have volatility index. They know as long as we're in this range, less important. And something I don't talk about often is we have a treasury that could buy back like 80% of the supply. And that's the only reason it exists. So if somebody, if a bunch of people just did decide to dump, okay, we'll buy it back. The other, the other thing that's different, it exists elsewhere, just not communicated effectively as we do, is there are multiple, probably a dozen different ways to make profit without selling the base asset. Right? You can sell your knight, you can put your knight in a raid, you could sell a raid token. Some of those raid tokens have pools for USDC or busd. So just helping people understand based on their time preference. I don't want people to think that you're supposed to hold forever. All that does is make people guilty. And then when they do, if they do need to take a little bit, they feel so guilty they're going to dump the whole thing and disappear. That's just not the ecosystem and it's not the thought process or the brain space that we want people to be in.

That's what I really love about this whole thing is that you have an ecosystem, cultivating an ecosystem. That's exactly what you're saying. But you're giving them education. It's kind of like Nick Smith's extended. It feels like, you know, in a lot of senses. And you're incubating other things, like Spartan, you know, that was what, a couple weeks ago? And so it's really cool that you're adding even more utility and more options and reasons why people want to be inside the ecosystem.

Yeah, it's fun. It's. My brain does really well with the moving pieces. The dev is always the hard part. Yes. So we're, we're heavier on dev now than we were before. Here, here's, here's another thing about crypto, just tangentially related. But, but it, it, it's important is that the opportunities like this have existed forever. They just weren't available to everybody.

Right.

You had to be an accredited investor or an institution or. So this kind of innovation is not new. It's just that 99% of the population is being exposed to it for the first time. And they are not conditioned, they don't have the experience, they're not quite sure how to act. And so typically, by the time you're buying Tesla stock, you're trying to make money, you know, pretty quickly. Especially now that you got Robinhood, it's really easy to jump on. What's not obvious to some of the later adopters or even the mass market is that Ethereum does not exist to make you rich. Like Vitalik does not wake up in the morning, go, how am I going to pump the token price? He's trying to change the way the fricking Internet works, you know, infrastructure. Yeah, like build something that's going to change the world. Just like Elon wakes up trying to put people on Mars or whatever the hell he's doing, he's not waking up thinking, oh, how can I pump up the price of Tesla stock today? And people don't fully realize that. They think the whole point of this asset is for the price to go up. And that's just a byproduct of what they're doing in the real world. So helping people kind of understand that or what we've done with Guard, which none of crypto is this. Maybe bits like some of the stuff in Magic Internet Money Ecosystem or Terra, like anchor, but very, very small number of assets are actually designed to consistently make you money. They represent other things. So there's just an understanding of infrastructure and ecosystem and what am I really investing in? And people look at what we do. This is recent said, well, how's that not going to fall apart like so and so or so, you know, whatever and you know that, excuse me, they just haven't taken a look at the ecosystem.

And that's what Nacho Fiat inside the chat said. Trust the person, not the product. Definitely. There's a lot of trust in the way you're thinking and also the thinking you're providing others. And it's that shift in thinking when this is a new thing for so many folks just getting into these instruments, these tools to create wealth or whatever it is to close the gap for folks individually. It's interesting because there is quite the shift and that's just from us in our own things. Just when you look at any part of crypto, NFTs like, okay, great, well there's utilities, there's applications that you can think about all these things, but without a lot of that, what are they, you know, and people are going to do dumb shit, you know, with their money if they don't fully understand or how to interact with these things.

Even if you don't fully understand what you're, you're investing. Here's the big thing and this is what Nixmas is all about. I wasn't going to do Nixmos this year. I did it like last minute. I decided, I'll do it today, thank you. And I was like, ah, can I just call everybody an asshole for 12 days and see if they still like me? But the thing, people don't know themselves, right? They're like, yeah, they're thinking of themselves as like a value investor, but they're staring at the chart on a five minute timeframe. Well then you're a day trader. Just admit that you're a day trader. So there's a huge disconnect. Even if you don't understand the project, if you're a value investor, then yeah, you want to know the roadmap, you want to know the people behind it, you want to know who's in charge, you want to know the track record, all that stuff. If you're a day trader, I know some very good day traders, ones that have made tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions on Bitcoin. They don't know anything about blockchain, they made a killing Forex. They know how to read charts, they know how to read volume, they look at charts. They don't try to pretend like they're going to do research on the white paper. You know, you don't have to know about the projects if you're day trading. You just have to know that you're day trading.

Yeah. Know you know where you're at, because that's where I found myself initially. It was, like, looking at charts and all this stuff. I'm like, this ain't me. You know, it didn't take me long for me to click. I'm like, no, no, this isn't how I'm going to do this thing, you know? And it quickly turned into, yeah, white papers. Understanding the tech, that's where we went. And Deep Dove, that was part of us creating some open loops and we're like, don't know where it's going to go, but sure as hell is the best education for who we are.

Well, I think, I think this actually leads into a sort of next tangent that I want to go off with you is, is the solvable problem thing. You mentioned the solvable problem a minute ago, and I'm really surprised we didn't talk about it on our last episode, because this, this concept is, was so impactful. I heard you talk about it on another podcast. I can't remember the podcast that we were listening to. But you Deep Dove on the concept of this solvable problem versus unsolvable problems. And I think a lot of people just go into crypto going, hey, I want to make a lot of money with crypto, right? That's kind of an unsolvable problem. But I'd love to hear your sort of definition and breakdown of that philosophy.

Shout out to Dr. Jeff Spencer for the human champion mind distinction. Most people come from the human mindset. Or the human mind. Yeah, the human mindset, which is survival. And everything in us just tells us more is the answer. Right? We're coming from a place of scarcity, and that's how we solve problems for some reason. But it's not solvable. Like, the only way to find out how fast you can run and how, how fast, how far you can run and how fast is to, like, run until you keel over and die. That is the only way to find out how much more is enough, is you go till you blow yourself up, which is what people in crypto do. So I, I, I've, I've, I'll give you an example. If people said, you know, if I could just fund this for my mom and this for my life, and it would, I would just need this much. My life's complete. I've done the important things, and I can look at their crypto profile and be like, well, you have that much? Yeah, but what if it goes, but, but, but it could go up, right? So this is what we're solving for. It's already solved. But this, this gnawing, like, well, what if I miss more? I probably talked to 15 people in the short time frame. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna name names. The tokens and stuff, they were all in the same token and they're all in the same place. About half of them were said, oh yeah, solvable problem. They sold, they bought the things that mattered to them. They're very happy. About half did not. Because what if I could have more? Took to price. That token is probably a tenth of what it was. So you went from the ability to lock in the things that matter most to you to not. That's like the biggest failure of all time. That's why we need to solve a problem to inform behavior. This is the question, do I need to take more risk or less risk? Do I need to do something or do nothing? If we know those, then we can start navigating, right? So solvable problem is just quantifying. These are the things that matter most. Retire my spouse so they never have to work again. Pay off mortgage and have all of my retirement funded. That's going to cost, I don't know, $20 million. And worst case scenario, if I could lock that in in seven years, I would be okay with that. Everybody wants to go. Best case scenario. But I'll tell you why we do that in a minute. So then we can actually. Okay, here's everything you have available. Here's where you want to be, here's what timeline. We've now defined enough variables to determine, given what you have and where you're at, you need to take more risk or you take less risk. If you need, given what you have in front of you right now, if you put that somewhere and you got 4% a year and that funded your ideal life, don't put it in crypto. You can get 4% without taking the risk, you know, or put an anchor protocol and insure it, right? That informs us now, if you're in the same position, but you have. There's other things. I don't know, you got to pay off some hospital bills from chemotherapy. You know, like these things happen and you need 42%. Well, then putting it on an anchor is actually the riskiest thing to do. All you're doing is locking in the fact that you don't get what you.

Need, you get halfway there or whatever.

What most people have is they don't have a Solvable problem. You ever try to do a multivariable equation? X plus Y plus Z equals A. So they tackle one thing, okay, that looks right and they tackle another thing, but that changes this thing and they start running in circles because every time you change a variable in a multivariable equation, everything else changes. So what we do is we, we get real about what we have right now, that it is what it is, what really matters to us, what are our true priorities in life, regardless of what anybody else says they should be. What are they actually? Now we can start working to solve the problem. And in crypto, the beautiful thing about crypto is I can set my base case. I set my base case at 70%. I get way more than 70% right now. But I don't take on more risk the market provides, it just does. And I could take that overage and I can collapse time with it. I could turn seven years into four years, into two years. I could throw it away and buy a yacht and party with it. I could remove risk. I could just put it into, I don't know, dollars under my mattress. Right, but you keep the optionality. And if you want to get there faster, having a conservative solvable problem will likely provide an opportunity for you to collapse that time down without increasing the risk that you don't get the things that actually matter to you. If you push harder, if everything goes right, I can get this in four years. I promise you everything is not going to go right. It never has since the beginning of time. You are a ticking time bomb. Right? So the worst case scenario. Yeah, worst case scenario as our base case and we collapse it instead of best case scenario, hope and pray, just engineering the things that matter to us.

And that goes back to one of the biggest things I took away from Niximus was, you know, the two things that have never failed in eternity. Time and randomness. I think that was just so clear. I mean, you beat it in everyone's head. I think it's just like you need to solve for that and shore up everything you have on the home front, figure out your base case and don't wreck yourself in the process and just don't do dumb shit. And sometimes it's just put your hands on your ass and just literally don't type anything, don't click a button just to sit back and know yourself and really get there. But the time and randomness thing I think is you just look at so many people looking at the best case scenario in crypto. I think that's probably like you Said, probably the biggest reason why people get wrecked. Smart people, too.

I'll give you a good example that everybody in crypto probably feels everybody was. Was calling for $100,000 bitcoin in December. Right. So people are like, okay, well, I got it. Boom, boom. And they put themselves in a position where if $100,000 bitcoin doesn't happen, they're in trouble. That is putting time against you. If you need something to happen to be okay in a short time frame, you have made time your enemy. And again, like. Like you mentioned, time is undefeated. It has always passed. I don't want to fight it. I want it on my team. And randomness, which this is another example. Everybody on the planet was calling for $100,000 bitcoin in December. It didn't happen. So that would be considered randomness. That's unexpected. So you put time, though. The way you keep time and randomness on your side is you develop a strategy that does not require bitcoin to be $100,000 in December for you to be okay. You know, that's what the base case is, and that's what we've been working on. Bear market's coming. You know, are we in it? I don't think so. Maybe. But it's coming regardless, whether it's now or next month or three, whatever. So if you're in a position where you're like, ooh, hopefully something happens before you hit a bear market, or I'm in trouble, you do not have time or randomness on your side. We want to deploy strategies to get those two players on our team.

Yeah. And once you start, I guess if you can catch yourself in that thought, you know, like, oh, okay, you know, there's a target. If this happens, then that's a red flag. Or if you're reading an article or something calling for 100k bitcoin and you're actually believing it, red flag again. It's interesting how so much of the masses. That's what it's driven by. That's human behavior. Again, back to that.

It is. It's super interesting. So I use this quote, Nick Smith, A lot is people prefer the certainty of misery to the misery of uncertainty. People often. I might have said this on the last podcast, even. But if you show Somebody here's door one, behind it, 100% chance you stay miserable. Here's door two. There's actually a 2% chance there's something that makes you happy on the other side of this door. It would stand to reason that everybody would Pick door two because there's some chance of happiness. In reality, almost everybody picks door one. They stay in bad relationships, they stay in bad investments. They look at their solvable problem. There's a comment to solve a problem. TM Dan. We trademarked it.

Right? You look at your solvable problem and you see that what you're doing clearly won't get you there, and you still won't do something different. So most people prefer the certainty of misery to the misery of uncertainty, and I've never seen anything like it. Very few things surprised me. This surprised me. The market goes red. Everybody panics. Red is scary. I get it. Especially if you haven't been in any kind of market for a while. Guardian, at the time Guardian went straight green. Whole markets going red, Guardians going green. People were actually panicking because people were buying Guardian. Like, like, oh, it's. Well, what. What about. What if these buyers. What if they sell later? And like, so you're scared of red and you're scared of green. What are you doing in the market? It's tough, but that's. That's humans, right? Fearful and greedy at the exact same time. And it's very difficult to. To function effectively in that state.

No, it's really, It's. It's a common thing that in our groups and the projects we're working on is like, we. When is it enough? And that's where a lot of folks just. I mean, it's. It's one of those endless questions, and they just don't have answers to it. And I hope that, you know, some folks are hearing this and, you know, creating a solvable problem and having a plan for themselves and not freaking getting rocked by some shiny object just like anything else that's going to steer them off course.

It's magical because we have a ton of investors in the Wolf Den that are tweeting about this all the time, and they don't even know the market went red. They had no idea. Don't even look at it anymore. People will be like, hey, you see Time Wonderland? No. Well, do you want to check it out? It's really cool. Like, no, I got the solvable problem. Problem solved. I don't need distractions. So being. It's really trying to work people in a place to protect them from themselves. And crypto just. It's the same conceptual frameworks. There's just nowhere else that is. That is available to everybody where you can lock in and insure 20% on anchor protocol or reliably get 70% in the base Case, same concepts, just actually solving that problem has become feasible for a larger number of people given their starting capital.

And that kind of goes A lot of people just complicate shit. That's what humans do, I guess naturally, I'm assuming. But the whole multivariable thing, there was some equation, you were just doing a bunch of diagrams in Nixmos and you know, the more inputs or the more things, you know, the success of whatever that thing is will go down. And you're doing the math, all that stuff, I can't recreate it right now. But even if it was like 90, 90% for what like four things and then one's like 70%, that thing just, it fails or it starts tanking and you know, like anchor. It's great because it's really, it's not complicated, you know, and it's stable and same with what you have. It's, it's not complicated once you get it. People just try to invest in everything, watch all the charts, track all the portfolios and yeah, like, you know, put all these, buy just way too much complicated shit going on. And I feel like people try to kind of be everywhere and it's, you.

Know, it's a realization we've had, we've really had to hone in over the last few months. I think one of my biggest problems with crypto has been being over diversified. When the markets were, were going up, I'd have one coin that would do really well, but then I'd have another coin that would do not as well and they just offset each other. And so I ended up getting like over diversified and was spread too thin across all of these coins. And now I'm starting to realize, like just kind of get focused in.

Well, it becomes, it becomes impossible. So you can invest in infrastructure. So like, you know that crypto is going to have networks and platforms, Ethereum, Polygon, Phantom, bse, you know, it's going to have exchanges, Uniswap, Pancake Swap, Night Swap, you know, it's going to have oracles like Chain Link. So you could think to yourself, it's like if I invest in electric cars, right, I wouldn't be all in on Tesla. I would be all in on all a little bit exposed to all the manufacturers and probably their vendors and probably. You know what I mean?

Yep.

So you, you can invest in infrastructure and then that's just a bet on crypto knowing that everything will fail. But it's like, it's like if you invested in Google, ask Jeeves, Bing and Yahoo, almost all them Failed. But your investment in Google made you a billionaire for sure. Enough asymmetry in like a bubble type situation that you, you can do infrastructure. You have to know that you're doing infrastructure right. So you get insurance for Defi to succeed, we're going to need insurance. So you might get some armor and so on and so forth. You could also invest in people. Like, you could just follow Elon Musk around and invest in everything he does. That's basically like, I'm on that train. Regardless how you feel about him. He does it, I'm putting money in it. Sure, right. And those are just different strategies. The problem with just kind of being overextended and not really understanding why is you don't have a tight enough feedback loop to say, okay, I'm betting on this and this is why. Oh, that didn't work out. What part of my operating system or decision making criteria can I update? If you're just throwing money out there and hoping right, then you have no way of getting better at it. So I'm a big fan of being thoughtful for that reason. I don't know that it improves your chances in the short term because we're all kind of speculating and guessing. I think it makes you a more discerning investor over the long term because you know how you came to that decision and can therefore update it if appropriate.

And that's where we realized hone in on the niche and we're working with other folks that can put multiple eyes on things. It's just like the Wulffden. You have a community around so you're not doing it alone. And it's nice to get that feedback. I want to shout out this question really fast. Going back to your Wolftin. It's from Dwayne Moffitt. He's asking what's been the biggest surprise as you've been building the ecosystem.

The biggest surprise is probably just the growth, to be honest. I've been in crypto like at this smaller cap in crypto for like seven months and maybe not a surprise but, but just more validation that like developers from all around crypto and I, I don't want to share the, the bigger names that actually today you guys know Joe Polish, I'm sure talked to Joe Polish today and he, he wants to introduce me to somebody who has a son that invented a network. So just these connections and it's like figuring things out that now these developers are brilliant. Like their, their brain is broken. We've just kind of been systematically using the same principles you know, just the same principles from Nixmos and cca, the certification that we teach and all that and solving these problems that these brilliant people could not solve because they're just, they're a little more on the technical side. And when you're that technical, you kind of develop a paradigm and with the paradigm comes some blinders. I can't tell you how many, how many times large projects have said that will never work, we don't want any part of it. And then come back and said, hey, how can we partner? Can we please get your endorsem? And it's just been the same in every industry that I've been in is just the how myopic. Even something is. It's decentralized, it's super innovative. You'd expect. I expected people to be a little less myopic because the whole concept of being decentralized is very non centralized. Right. So I expected less myopia. That's probably the most surprising thing. The way it works is brilliant when you understand how blockchain works. The other surprising thing is how difficult. I think it's because people see crypto as money and it's not, it's not money. It has a US dollar value, but it's not money. They, they have a very difficult time. So it's really about other people learn. Blockchain was relatively straightforward, it makes perfect sense, it's very well built. But people have a very hard time understanding like the difference between assets and US dollars. Like they really struggle with that. They have a hard time understanding like you know, the user interface on let's say Night Swap or whatever it shows US dollars but it's back calculated because the contracts are written in token emissions. You don't write smart contracts in US dollars.

Right, right.

So, so and you teach that to people and they still have a very difficult time like processing all of this in real time. Which tells me there will be mass adoption in crypto to some extent. The surprising thing to me that my realization is my, my opinions change a little bit. I don't think it'll be crypto as we know it now. The average population cannot process it this way. We can't have banks that kick out token emissions and back calculate changing APRs in real time like that. I just don't know how that gets adopted. So there'll be some, this is what I'm realizing. These are people that are kind of doing like Nexo is a good example or Celsius maybe where it's coinbase. It's like A centralized, but it uses blockchain.

They're all kind of experimenting with that. Like crypto.com has a variation of that as well. Yeah.

And so the most surprising thing was the realization that what we know today as fairly active traders is probably not the thing that's going to get mass adopted.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think the reality is with crypto, crypto will get mass adoption when people barely even realize they're doing anything with crypto. Right. Like they. They log into a bank account like. Like they're logging into their Chase account or whatever. And it feels like that. But what's happening behind the scenes that they're not even seeing is that stuff's getting transferred into crypto, moved around, compounded, whatever, and then coming back to them in a US dollar value. So it's gonna. That's my prediction of where it's going to go is through the common user. It's going to look very sort of native to what they're used to. But what's happening behind the scenes, the plumbing, the, you know, all the moving parts that are happening that you're not seeing will be happening through crypto. That's sort of where I see things going.

It has. It. I agree. It has to. People need customer support, they need refunds, they need 24.7chat, and they need somebody to make them feel good about what they're doing. And that's just not. That's not the blockchain world we live in now. But anchor protocol is a great example.

Right.

It's pegged to a dollar. They get well over 19, but they give you 19, which is better than you're going to get anywhere else outside of crypto anyway. So I imagine a world that's Nexo Celsius Anchor, which was a surprise to me because I thought it was further along the adoption curve than it was until I really got into it and stopped people trying to interact with it.

Yeah. And then you start to realize that all the stuff that we're building now or part of or investing in is actually the plumbing behind the scenes of what's. What's to come. I'm curious, what's the sort of roadmap for night swap? I know that it looks like you might be partnering with some other people and helping them launch coins, because that seemed like the case with the Spartan coin. What's your vision for it going forward?

Night swap is it's built a little bit different than many Dexes, and I've done videos, but it's built 100% around utility right. So most dexs and most projects are what's going to bring the most tvl and they typically give out high emissions, it tanks the token price and eventually usually they recover. Pancake recovered, baby swap recovered. And we just said no, we don't need to attract tvl. You guys probably know this. We actually move more capital in the real world than pretty much any of the people in the small cap crypto do. So moving capital is not actually the biggest concern we have, which I think is, is unusual in the space. Most people are in here trying to figure out how to get capital. We're trying to figure out the safest place to put it. So it's a little bit different. So it's all utility which means like there's no farm for bitcoin eth, right. Which would bring a ton of TVL but there doesn't serve any utility. You can already trade bitcoin and eth through a routing system. So there's no utility to that. So step one is always look for utility. There's no set roadmap because we make a lot of space and we are receptive to new information, information that maybe we couldn't conceive of yesterday. Spartan for example, the second we launched Spartan, the, the price of night has been supported. It's up like probably 11 cents and it's holding that floor from the Spartan volume.

Right.

I wasn't on a roadmap. I actually dropped a voice message in a group and I was like, hey, if anybody wants to do this, I don't have the bandwidth, I'll support you. And he goes yeah, I'll do it. So he launched Spartan with, with our support. So we're always just looking at solve a problem here, here, close the gap. Most efficient way to remove more risk. Where's you know, HACCP hazard analysis of critical control points. Where's. Where are the things that could go wrong and how can we support them? Whereas again most people are saying high apr, high apr. We'll figure it out later. I don't, I already we've conditioned everybody. If you want more than 70% go somewhere else. That's what we've run every scenario that's feasible. We can kick out 70% so we're attracting more sophisticated investors. Now the way that we leap forward because we're the fastest growing decks on all networks right now, no marketing, no telegram group. We don't do any of the stuff people say you're supposed to do is launch pads. Right? So people launch projects, astronaut launch pads single handedly. Like brought Apeswap to top three in tvl so we have a launchpad on bsc. We have a launchpad on Phantom. We're gonna start launching projects. We're gonna bias the ones that have a direct positive impact on our ecosystem, like Spartan. And we also partner with Astronaut and Padmon and two other launch pads. So they're going to whitelist our Wulff Den members because our Wulff Den members have consistently shown they spend a lot of money and they don't dump tokens. I mean, they're, they're the kind of people and you guys might know they'll be like, hey, I got to cash out ten grand. What's the best way to do it to protect the ecosystem? That's what our biggest holders are doing. Right. All these launchpads are coming to us. How do we get your support on these launches? And we say simple. You push liquidity to night swap. We pop up a farm. So the TVL should skyrocket. And once that happens, that's mania will set in. And I see some of the comments here. I get the same ones in Discord. Yeah, the price will get overbought. Everything. There's gonna be a mania phase. It's gonna get overbought. And if you're that skeptical, then you should have been smart enough to not participate in the mania phase. You buy it here, mania happens, it comes back down, probably higher than you bought it. Right. So it's always interesting to me that people are always worried about the huge mania phase. It's going to mess everything up. Only if you also act like an idiot during that phase will it mess things up for you, you know?

Right. Don't let it shake you. Yeah, yeah.

And if, you know, if, if you got, if you need $100,000 to close the gap and this mania phase gets you $100,000 of night sell it. You're welcome. Close the gap. You know that, that the roadmap is launch high quality projects. That's all there really is left to do is launch high quality projects. We help them market, build a community, understand the same things we've been talking about. They put liquidity on night swap. And what happens is it just becomes there's a certain kind of project that you're trading at all times on night swap. And some of them will go up, some of them will go down, some of them will tank and disappear. That's the nature of defi. But they're all going to, they're all going to meet some criteria. That's the whole point of Knight is from my ecosystem standpoint, it is to support the base case. As long as trading volume is coming through Knight, we will have all the trading fees in the world to support the base case from a not Wolf Den standpoint, but from Knight now stands alone as a top four decks on bsc. So now we need to jump Baby swap and Ape swap for number three and baby swap for number two. We're getting all that TVL through simply improving utility, whereas everybody else, except for pancake pancakes, the og, right. So there's not a single thing that we have done in order to attract APR chasers, APY chasers, all that stuff, which makes it far more robust. It's not bulletproof, no guarantees, yada, yada, yada. But there's no cell pressure to make up for, which is that's how most projects are getting their TVL is they're doing things that create a lot of cell pressure and to figure they'll deal with it later. So it's been fun.

Now I want to clarify something real quick for just maybe the less crypto or investor savvy people. You know, you keep saying tvl, which is total value locked. Can you sort of explain what that means and you know, its importance to what you're doing?

TVL is a few things. I'll share both sides because people need to be more honest about the risks. Here's the downside of tvl. It makes you a target. Now a dex, a well built dex is very, very safe. Pancake I trust Ape, I trust Baby, where a Dex is very, very safe. They all fork pancake contracts. Pancake is pretty much bulletproof. But with tvl, right? If you're a hacker, if you're a really good hacker and you're trying to figure out what you want to hack, you're going to go to the biggest thing, right? So with TVL comes comes risks. Not typically in a Dex, but when you start talking about auto compounding, vaults yield aggregators. Those are the things you hacked. And it's happened quite a bit recently. So that's the downside of tvl. The upside is Binance has built like a billion dollar grant. Fantom has a grant where they give you 850,000 Phantom, which is like two and a half million dollars if you have a certain amount of TVL.

Why?

Because I know as investors, I get it. All you care about is a short term price action. You don't know better, it's okay. But big players, billionaires, cz, they're saying who is Bringing the most money to my network. All of their grants, all of their rewards, all the attention, all their partnerships, they're looking at tbl. Crypto is still so early. Like people don't understand how early it is fully. So new money coming onto the platform is still the thing that people value the most.

There's like $4 billion that dropped onto Phantom the other day because Phantom said, Top 20 projects by TVL. We're giving an outrageous amount of money. So as a project there's nothing more important than TVL. It also tells people if you got 60 million TVL, then the next week you got 70 million and the next we got 75 million. This is building trust. Anybody that is going to intentionally scam or rug or do anything like that is going to do so well before these higher TVL marks, they're going to get in and get out with 20 million and be done, you know. So the higher the tvl, it really is a sign of more security. So those are the main reasons. If we were to say, hey, what's a great way to support the ecosystem of Dark Knight? Well, if somebody gave us $2 million to either give out, you could stake Dark Knight for Phantom or to buy back Dark Knight. If we just had $2 million just to support the price of Dark Knight, that makes it more robust. Pay for marketing, whatever, whatever you want to do. $2 million for free. The way you get that is TVL on these newer networks pretty much. I mean, Binance just did a billion dollar grant for TVL and trading volume. That's what most projects are worried about. A good project will disregard the price of their own token to get TVL because they're playing a longer game. It's very hard for a holder to understand that because that holder bought high and now it's low and they think the world is over. But the reality is you're really looking at TVL for the long game. More tvl, that's total value locked, that's assets on the platform. If you're a Dex, that means there's more trading happening, which means there's more trading fees coming through, which is more fees to support the Dex. If you're an auto compounder, auto compounders just do all the compounding for you and they take a small percent of your yield. So the more TVL and auto compounder, the more profit they have to support their token. People go, they don't fully think about as a defi, as a project owner, how do you make money? Because if you sell your token, it's like a soft rug pull. Everybody's mad at you if you charge them for stuff. They're pissed off because everything's supposed to be free. They don't think about how projects make money and you have to make money to be sustainable. And typically a well run project, their profits coming some byproduct of tvl, trading fees, auto compounding fees, stuff like that. So that's the mark.

That's good man. Yeah, no, I learned a lot from that too. And that's such a great metric to look at when analyzing projects in general ecosystems and all that and just understanding it more as you do your due diligence throughout everything.

And one thing I want to put a lot of value on too when it comes to night swap and what you're doing is that people know who you are.

Right.

And there's a lot of projects where people have no fricking clue who the person behind the project is. Which in our early days when we were hunting for what's going to make us the most money the quickest, we didn't care about that stuff. We have gotten wrecked with an R E K T a few times right for, for chasing some of that kind of stuff. And there is a ton of value with actually knowing the person behind the platform who's actually building it and creating the community and sustaining everything.

Yeah, it's a, it's unusual. I was going to do a doxed or undocs. I was going to be anonymous. Fortunately for everybody up to this point anyway, I'm lazy so much work to like switch out different telegram groups and a different YouTube. And so I said whatever.

That's also why I'm ultra transparent at the pal. Like this is my opinions, I'm speculating dubiously. I don't know what's going to happen. Don't buy this if you don't know. It's like, you know, I have hours and hours of YouTube video of me saying like do not buy stuff if you do not know what's going on. You see green, don't pan it. And so it's kind of a forcing function to be ultra transparent just to protect, you know, I got a lot to lose in real life. So it's, it's been good for that. And the anonymous nature, which is super interesting you brought that up. It does build a lot of, it builds a lot of trust. It also gives people somebody to blame which is, you know, everybody's gonna be, everybody's gonna make a stupid decision and look for somebody to blame. And I, I Do get a lot of that. And that's okay. So I have to work extra hard. But the, the anonymous thing is it makes it really difficult to build an ecosystem because here, here's the magic that I don't know if I've ever talked about this, so I'll share it with you guys. The magic is all developers, I've talked to so many developers and they all think the same thing. They all think everybody wants the same thing and they don't. They're like, oh, they just want to pump the token price. That's weird because nobody in the Wolf Den cares. So that's evidence not everybody wants the same thing. So we have like our premium NFWS, our NFTs and the last one just sold for 22 grand.

And then we have saws or what was that?

Wolf saws, a whole different animal.

Oh, that's right. Okay.

But what we're doing, that brings, that brings capital in the ecosystem. And then we buy back Knight and distribute it to the other NFT holders. We have tier. So you climb the Wolf Den, you get, you get more and more proximity, more access to me and the team and you burn wolfies and then, you know, you, you pay for stuff and then we buy back stuff. So what's happening is this ecosystem has more support than most, especially in this down market because we understand that not everybody values the same currencies, the same, right? Some people value proximity more than more dollars. So we can actually get them to buy token and burn it or send it back because they value proximity. So it's no longer a one to one buy to sell. Whereas everybody else on blockchain, they're just going, I need more people to buy and less people to sell. And we're actually saying like no. Some people value their time, time, identity, money, energy, reputation or the timer. Some people value proximity, some people value status. So if we can get you to, hey, we can give you this status, it's very valuable to you, it's important to you. And you buy this and send it or burn it or whatever. We've now changed the math, the buys and sells that are even possible just by understanding that people value different shit. It's not all the only reason you believe as a developer, it's dollar for dollar, that's all people care about is because you never gave them any other options. So we keep shifting the math to where blockchain developers can't really figure it out because they're going, how does the, how does the buy sell price action make sense here? Well, they bought for access to me and they can never sell because they send it in. These people actually provided liquidity because they're on a five year plan. And so it's just understanding that people value different things. Let's respect them all and not assume they're all greedy a holes trying to make money right now. That's it turns out right. So we just continue again, people are so how does this not fall apart? We've just changed the math. If you assume that it's buy, sell, buy, sell, buy, sell, the only way you're going to make money is to sell on somebody else, then yes, it will fall apart. But that's not the only way to make money and that's not necessarily the thing that everybody wants out of the ecosystem. So just understanding those dimensions, you know.

Yeah, and I think that'll help, I mean with through education like you're given here. And a ton of people are obviously thanking you for that here. You never stop educating. It's unreal how generous you are with sharing. So it's like obviously that's a trust thing there, but I feel like that's just going to help with onboarding when more people realize, oh, it's not just price go up or down, but there's utilities. And that's where Matt and I have gone. Kind of fallen into crypto gaming or play to earn. And there's some just wild utilities. But it's almost like that is a perfect on ramp. It has a lot of utilities but built into that thing, its own ecosystem, you know, all of them are different but it's kind of like what you're saying. There's different reasons why someone would want to get involved.

People like, well, it's all about money all the time on Twitter's voice. Like, well that's weird because when you go to the fair with your family and it costs you $2,000, are you expecting to get a 3x return on that? Like, no, you went. It's an experience, it's entertainment. It's like people pay for things other than to get more money back. Actually, most things people pay for is not to get more money back. When people come to crypto, they just get super myopic about money for money, not realizing that you can make it money for something else. And the byproduct of that is way more money than if you were trying to make money in the first place. Another reason why I think we're a ways away from mass adoption for sure.

Well, on that whole diffusion of innovation chart which is absolutely epic. I think that just staring at that chart that you went over at Nixmas is great. But, like, where would you put. Where would you imagine we are in the whole, like, adoption of crypto. And I'm sure the sectors are different.

Yeah. So you can zoom in, you can zoom out. Right. Like, you could say accountants are. And I don't know if Dan still watch. I'm picking on Dan. You can say accountants are late adoption. Right. Accounting, like, accounting is not new, but within that, you could have super innovative accountants. So you can zoom in and out, but on a broad scale. Here, here's how I might say this in Xmus. Here's how. Here's my back of hand, quick test. I know where I sit. Okay. So if I just speak my regular language and it closes. So if I just rattle off a bunch of stuff the way I typically communicate, like my typical colloquial speech, and you go, okay, this makes perfect sense then about that thing. We are probably in early adoption, early adoption phase. If I say a whole bunch of stuff and it increases, it increases uncertainty. So if I use words to communicate something and it closes the gap of uncertainty, that's considered information. If it widens the gap of uncertainty, if I say a bunch of stuff and you go, wow, what the hell? That's a different language. It's innovation. So the same words can be one, can be information, one person innovation to another. So if the way that I am typically speaking is more informative than confusing to people, then we are probably getting into early adopters. If it's more confusing to people than it is informing, we aren't even there yet. We're not an early adopters. We're innovative. And I think if you showed this podcast to the general population, they would be very confused about what we just talked about. That tells me we're still super early innovation. We're not even early adopters yet. It's not until you or me or any of us could sit with Joe Rogan and just jam, and he could very, very quickly and easily repeat what we say, but in his way, and his audience would get it. That's when we're in the early adoption phase. And I don't think we're there yet.

People have tried that.

People are trying. It's not working very well.

It's starting to land.

But yeah, we're still like change agent, innovator, and then early adopter. Like, we're in the innovator stage. That's where I live.

That makes sense.

I feel like bitcoin specifically speaking of bitcoin might be a little bit more advanced just because I know my, my parents are in it now. My father in law had me set up a coinbase account for him and a ledger for him. And so I feel like maybe bitcoin is a little bit more advanced but everything that's kind of following behind bitcoin feels.

I put bitcoin in a separate, I just talked about somebody, I put it in a separate category. It is actually. I agree, I agree. Crypto people call bitcoin the dinosaur, right? Because as of right now it's really just a currency and a store of value and there's some. Which is like we can, our brain can go oh, like gold. You know there's a pre wired idea there, there understands and if you go okay, it's like gold. It's just easier to move around. So I, I do think, I do think it's in a much, much later phase of adoption. Ethereum, you can say, well it's like the Internet. But even that is like, it's just too, it is too innovative for mass adoption at this point.

There's a gap for sure. Couple questions, let's see here. Well, the DE engineering events. So Dwayne's asking if there's going to be a 3.0. But also I'm curious of what these events are and of course how you can get into them.

DejEngineering. This is going to help you understand how ridiculous our life is. We're at Dr. Jeff Spencer's event actually and he just did Human Champion mind and we're like people need to hear this in crypto. Maybe we could do an event. And a friend of ours, Brandon Straza, his wife plans amazing events. And I was like, brandon, I'll do it in Dallas if your wife will set it up. We have this metric. I want you guys to know this so you can start working on it. We have this metric called ETH to effort ratio. We want to make as much ethereum with a little effort as possible. So we're always thinking about how can we not do any work. So we're like, yeah, look, I'll do it in Dallas. You guys settle up. We'll do it in Dallas. I don't know if you're familiar with the dick sickle. It's a ridiculous thing.

I was waiting for Brandon to make tickets. I was like, yeah, we'll sell them as NFTs. We'll announce to people. Maybe we get 20. Best case scenario, 50 people. But that might be A stretch. And I was waiting for him to get the art for the tickets, and I was like, I'm bored. So I screenshotted the dick sickle and I minted it, and they sold out like that. They were just gone. And we're like. I was like, oh, my God, what are people thinking for 1.5 each? 10 of them. So I was like, all right, Brandon, give me the rest of that art, and we'll sell these. And people start like, man, my wife, she loves the dick sickle. Now she wants one. Can she come to the event, too? And then we're having conversations that are like, you know, from women that have been clients of mine, like, very professional, type A, button up women that are like, hey, should I come? I want to come learn crypto. Like, well, I hate to tell you this, but the tickets. Just a warning. One is a frozen dick, and the other one has frozen dicks in the background.

And she goes, what's the difference? I said, well, Brandon was actually. I said, well, the more expensive one. The dicks are vibrating.

And she goes, well, I better get that one then. And, like, I just realized, like, people, it's just. It's the. It's just the perfect combination of, like, pretentious and ridiculous that it just really stuck with people. And so we sold out all 50 spots. We didn't market it or anything. Did the event. It was. It was phenomenal. Dr. Jeff Game. We had these giant neon dixicles everywhere. It was just.

Most outrageous thing, but the content was. I mean, you know, our people, they're thoughtful, they're sophisticated, they bring a lot of value. So just a really strange combination. I imagine people in the hotel were trying to figure out, like, are these giant dicks? Are they microphones? Are they doing karaoke? Like, what's going on here? So we did that. Sold out. We announced Wolfsaw. The first round of Wolfsaw sold out there. And the feedback was overwhelming. Like, hey, even I'm so glad I brought my wife. We're closer than we've ever been since doing that. She gets what I'm doing. She supports me now. Yada, yada, yada. So we said, okay, well, let's. Let's do it one more time, and we may do another one. So we just sold out. We had 50. I minted 50 tickets. And now we hit capacity, and people are still, like, begging for tickets. I just keep marking the price up. So last two were three eth. And I'm just finding shit to sell. Like, I'm going through my NFTs that I have. I'm listed for 3 ETH. I'm like, here, buy this and I'll give you the. You know, I'll manually give you the details.

Yeah, this will be something, I promise. Yeah, that was what Jake Anderson was asking, because I saw this in your telegram today, but it's like, hey, when's the Nick Peterson NFT coming? Of all your faces on the Random Meme Collection. There you go. You got a lot to work.

Sold one for 100k. Yeah, absolutely. Yesterday. Propeller hat and everything.

I didn't know that. This world's crazy. It's. It's fun, man.

This whole group of people, they. They just all collectively said, yeah, we're degenerates. Let's just call ourselves degens.

Well, I mean, this. You just proved it with all the. Just all the art and everything. Like, everybody has this little repressed thing inside of us, and I don't know if it's Covid or what or just this environment, the people. I mean, I think community is a huge piece of it, and trust within the community, shared understanding and a goal, even if it's personal goals.

Well, I think a lot of it came out of the Wall street bets thing. Right? Like, that was kind of their lingo in that Reddit and then just sort of transferred over.

Yeah, there's a thing that Defi does, which in. In the real world, if I'm a coach or consultant or whatever, I'm like, hey, look, I just want to do as little work as possible and make as much money as possible. They're like, yeah, dream on. Get a job, dude. And Defi. You're like, look, I just don't want to do any work, and I just want to have as much Ethereum as possible. They're like, yes, let me send you eth.

It's just a different way world where people are just a little more laid back. It's fun. I always joke that I'm going to launch a layer one called the apn, the Appropriately Pretentious Network. It's just the combination of sophistication and complete degenerate.

Oh, that would be epic.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

I mean, there's a whole other rabbit hole, and I don't think we should go down it now. Maybe if we do around three, somewhere in the future we can go down it. But this was another thing you talked about on another podcast that I heard with you that I thought would have been fun to, you know, to sort of see where it takes us is the whole conversation of the crypto world versus the, you know, the digital marketer, Internet marketer world, which that was the world we played in for the last decade and now we're, you know, we're keeping feet in both. Because I do think the, the sort of web3 crypto world, they need more marketing help. I think, I think the skills that we learn doing digital marketing is really, really needed over here. But the personalities, the people we bump into, the community, the way people approach, approach things feels completely different. It's so much less ego driven. It feels like.

Yeah, yeah, it is, it's. It's amazing. And again, rabbit hole that we, we don't need to go down now because many, many hours of thoughts. But it's different in that if you get. There's a. There's a thing about coaching and consulting and a lot of other coaches, consultants, probably the worst where it's like in order for me to make money, I have to convince you that I am something. And there's a lot of that, a lot of that ego, a lot of. And in crypto, when you get into it, some people come in starting that way that I know. But then you realize, oh, I don't actually have to convince anybody I'm anything in order to make money here. And so the ego just kind of, it kind of melts away once you realize, like, I don't have to convince anybody of anything.

Yeah. And that was actually something you said in our last podcast that stood out to me, is I'm done convincing anybody of anything anymore.

How damn freeing is that, huh?

It's been. I thought I was done and then I got into crypto and I realized I still had a little bit of bit to get rid of. There's just no. It's. Crypto changes the math. The solvable problem. Plus crypto being a tool, it changes the math to where you can really like realize I could never sell anything to anyone again and I'm still going to be just fine. And that, that really allows you to. The whole Nixmos thing really allows you to just be yourself.

Yeah.

And funny enough, oftentimes when you do that, a whole bunch more money comes at you.

That's why I was thanking you earlier because I'm like, Nixmas fell and in our laps, I think, at the perfect time. And it's just like I. We could not expect where we are now with just the projects we're working on, who we're working with. We're having this chat again about this now. Not some more marketing, whatever. You know, it's just, it's. I don't know, it's just a lot. It's better. Let's just say it's better. George is asking, and I wanted to ask this as well. Wulffen info, obviously. Was it wulffdincrypto.com you can get all the fun stuff. There's a white paper there. It's freaking hilarious. It's super informative.

Anything, any other places or directions you'd like us to point folks to to make sure they get the best info before they jump in?

It's a public URL, but I haven't shared it with anybody. That's Nicksmas 2021 replays.

What? So don't do that. That's huge. And Nicksmas 2021, I mean, there are so many comments. I mean, you can look at all the six word updates on Twitter and what people are saying. I'm sure the chat here, I mean, some folks have said it. I don't know what price tag you put on there, but it'd be a lot. So definitely dive into it.

So just, just for the people that might be listening just on the audio, can you, can you shout out some of the URLs for. So what was it? Joe Wulffden Crypto.com Wulffden Crypto.com any other, any other URLs you want to just kind of shout out on. On. On here for anybody listening on audio that they should go check out to go deeper down into your. Your ecosystem?

I think if you really want to get a deep dive on crypto, go to wulffdencrypto.com check out the white paper. Like I just recently saw all the updated memes and they're the best I greatly enjoy. And then Niximus 2021 is the successfinder.com backslash Niximas 2021. It's just hosted there for now. I'll keep it up there so that in the. For posterity sake, if somebody listens to this later on, it's still there. It's about 16 hours long, so should keep you busy for a while.

Oh yeah, I've gone on for ages, but yeah, it's. It gets you locked in. If you, if you like, like day one, you'll like all of them.

Yeah.

You won't even know what's coming. Awesome, man. Yeah, we're gonna link all that up. We'll make sure YouTube gets all the links so it's easy for folks to find if you're watching replays or whatever. And Then telegram, man, you're a beast on Telegram. So there's just. I mean, there's so much on there. So definitely join all the telegrams. I think for each project you have different ones, but yeah, just follow Nick around.

I don't know what's going on. Half the time I say stuff and I'm like, oh, I thought I was in a different group.

Oh, well.

Yeah, I pop into the Spartans one the other day and I'm greeted by you within like 30 seconds. I'm like, jeez, that didn't take long. So you're hitting that one up too, you know, so.

Yeah, that's true.

Appreciate your dedication.

That's the danger of getting the app on your desktop.

That's true. All right, brother, this has been great. Go take a nap. I'm sorry we starved you of today.

Appreciate you guys and, and looking forward to. To what you guys do next. Because I. I do see. I see a little pivoting and I just started paying attention again. So awesome. Looking forward.

Thanks for paying attention. We'll be in touch. My man.

Awesome. Awesome. Thanks so much for tuning into that episode with Nick Peterson. Once again, he blew our freaking minds. Like the last one, he talked about us how to think in a better way. This one, he taught us how to think about crypto in a better way. So really, really cool stuff. If this was a little bit over your head, don't worry. We're going to be taking you deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole with us in future episodes. I do want to remind you we're.

Only going to be doing this once.

A week for a little bit. That's probably going to be temporary while we're still laying the foundation for our new company over at Hard Fork Media. But with these new episodes, we are going to bring you deeper into this rabbit hole with us of crypto web 3 metaverse play to earn gaming defi all of the stuff that we're really into right now, that's what we're going to be talking about on this show. And this episode was a great example of the type of stuff that we'll be sharing with you. So thanks again for tuning in. Nick, he is just a brilliant mind. He approaches things differently than everybody else, and that's why we love him. And that's why this probably isn't the last time he's going to be on the show either. So once again, I want to remind you, make sure you're following, following us over on Twitter. Joe and I share just a ton of stuff on Twitter. Lately. I am Matt Ourwolf on Twitter Joe is Joe Fear on Twitter. And make sure you're following us on discord hustle and flowchart.com discord join the community in there. Join the conversation. We talk about our latest episodes. We talk about all the projects that we're getting involved in and what we're excited about right now. The community sharing cool projects and what they're excited about right now. It's just a very collaborative space where we all can interact with, with each other and it truly feels like a community. Much more so than like a Facebook group. So make sure you're hanging out with us over on Discord. Hustleandflowchart.com Discord we appreciate you guys. If you like this, if you like these new episodes we're putting out, leave us a review. Share this episode around. Help us out a little. Probably the best way you could really help us is by telling other people that you enjoyed this episode and linking them over to it. That would be amazing. So thanks again for tuning in. We do really appreciate you. Our show has grown by leaps and bounds, and even in this new shift of topic, it's growing even faster than it ever has before. So we really, really appreciate you. Thank you so much for continuing to tune in and some really, really exciting episodes coming up in the near future. And we'll see you in the next one.

Sa.