Nicholas Kusmich - The Perfect Facebook Ad Funnel

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf.

Joe.

Hey, what's up?

Hey.

Welcome back to the Hustle and Float chart. Podkizzle pod kizzle.

We should get a shirt made like that.

We should.

Those T shirts. I love the Hustle and Flow chart T shirts.

Those Hustle and Flow chart T shirts. Are we just gonna, like, sell our T shirts now?

No, I'm just saying that's legitimately. Except for today, one of my commonwears. Always wearing the hoodie. But that's a special thing that we made for ourselves.

Yeah. No, you can't have one unless you pay us. Then you could probably have one.

No.

Is it really just only us?

I don't know. We can maybe. It's. It's a special limited release. We can. We can run something.

Okay, well, let's brainstorm that after the show.

Yeah. So we today.

Interesting. So it kind of. We. We're going down. I would say. This is. I'm trying to think, okay, we're talking to Nicholas Kuzmic, and he's just freaking brilliant when it comes to ads. And then. But like, the way Customer Journey is what I'm trying to get at. I want to reference a previous episode, Daniel Danes Hut. Who is on our show because I feel like it's very similar. Basically. Kind of got like a walkthrough of psychology and how people interact online and how to set up your. Your content funnels, ads, all that fun stuff, like, to resonate with people.

Yeah, well, Daniel's is very specific towards, like, content, like blog content and psychological triggers. Today with Nicholas, we really dove into. So Nicholas runs intensive intensives and teaches people how to do Facebook ads and has an agency that runs Facebook ads for people. And he just ultra, ultra successful. Been running Facebook ads since basically Facebook since day one, basically allowed running ads. And he's really talking about once you get somebody off of Facebook, what flow should happen? So what should we drive them to? What kind of lead magnet should we use to get them on our list? How should we sell them once we've got them? How should we follow up with them later? How should we retarget them? What do you do after the click on that ad? That's really, I think, where we dove deep on this episode, and Nicholas did not disappoint. In fact, I'm really excited to show this. This is one of my favorite episodes we've done in a while because it's been a while since we've done one of these, like, Tactical advertising episodes.

Yeah, no, it is. And it's also like a mindset shift. That's why I wanted to relate back to, like, Daniel's episode because, yeah, it was very tactical, very practical. Like, you can take, like, I don't know how many strategies he laid out that will allow you to sell quicker. Basically make your ad costs back immediately and then also still set yourself up to make a lot of sales in the future. Like, and he breaks down the science. He breaks down specific strategies to do that and like 10 other things.

Yeah.

So I would say that the companion notes that we like to take for everybody, this would be a good one to go hop in and go grab. Yeah, they're free. And if they're not free, I'm sorry, but they go away after a week. So you got to be quick. Yeah.

So if you go to hustleandflowchart.com comp for companion C O M P comp. Hustleandflowchart.com Comp if you go there, you can get the notes for a limited time. Also, I want to tell you to go to Nicholas Kuzmich.com perfect ad templates.

What's over there, Matt?

Nicholas is giving you his ten step, ten piece, ten point. I don't know, is it a ten step or ten perfect?

Jesus, you're butchering this.

No, it's an ad blueprint, but it's. I don't remember if it was a 10 point or a 10 step or basically.

Yeah, the elements that he uses, the flag and it's his. It's his perfect Facebook ad template. Yes. So you basically, it's all totally free URL.

Again, Matt nicholaskouzmich.com perfect ad template.

There it is. Yeah. And it's linked in the show notes. So if you're driving, please don't type that in.

Yeah. Basically, put it this way. If you go and get Nicholas's template and you run your ads, he's going to show you how to actually run the Facebook ads and drive traffic. This episode is going to teach you what. What to send that traffic to. So now you got both parts right. You got the traffic from this free download that he's given you. And you've got our audio, which is going to teach you where to send all that traffic. And then of course, you're going to go get our companion@hustleandflowchart.com comp and you'll be good to go. You're going to have all the goods.

I think that is why I really like this specific Episode. It's not just tactical, but it's not just like, here's another Facebook ads pop podcast. You're getting way more. And even Nicholas even laid it out. It was like, if, you know, this whole customer journey and the usage of Facebook and also how to take them down and liquidate all ad costs and all that stuff, it's very practical in so many different ways. Even if you have other traffic sources and content plays and all that fun stuff. It's a good mix of everything.

Yeah, let's go talk to him on the Hustle and. And Flowchisel.

That's it. Podcast sizzle. Hey, Nicholas, welcome to the show.

Oh, man, the pleasure's all mine. I'm excited to have this conversation.

Yeah, man. Well, Roland, definitely. Yeah, he made the connection for us. Roland Frazier. A bunch of our audience knows him very well from previous episodes.

Sure.

So, yeah, I appreciate the time, man, because, I mean, you are the Facebook guy that we just keep hearing all the time. Reference buddy, Aaron Fletcher. I think he always checks out everything you're doing. Are you buddies with him?

Yeah, yeah. Well, gosh, I haven't seen him in ages, but, yeah, we go back probably like seven years or so, so. Small world.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're all in San Diego, so we get together with him for lunch, like, what, maybe every three months or something.

Yeah, well, someone's gotta suffer and live out in San Diego, right?

And suffer with Aaron Fletcher.

No, I'm just kidding.

No. We actually were modeling kind of the way that you do your intensives, and we were looking at, like, how you do the branding and you pick people up from the airport. We're checking out all this stuff and we're like, dude, he is doing it. Right. And Aaron was putting on an intensive and still does, but we were part of the first one and we're like, man, Right. It's a lot of work into these, but they're amazing when you know just the outcome for everybody there is just the best.

You know what? And then it's funny that you bring that up. Like, we've. I was always looking for. I never just wanted to be a content guy. Right. Because the problem is our world is. Is like, got so much content and most people don't actually do much with the content. Like, unless you put their hand to the fire, they don't actually do much with it, which is kind of frustrating. So I said, is there a way where we could deliver a ton of value and almost, you know, force the hand to the fire to force people to get stuff Done. So we were one of the first people like ever to put on this. You know, I don't know if we came up with the term the intensive, but one of first people years and years and years ago to do this and just to find the ability to get someone to complete something before the experience is over, rather than making the experience the beginning of a process proved to be very, very, very helpful. So it was nice to see.

Yeah. And that's what it feels like. And I only have the experience of we've been at Roland's events, but also errands. And yeah, you walk away with basically a game plan and you're running by the time you're leaving, what the two, three day event together.

Right.

It's a hell of a way to do it.

Yeah, we like it a lot.

Yeah.

So I'm curious about the backstory. How did you get into digital marketing? What were you doing before this? And how did you get into what you're doing now?

Loaded question.

So the answer, in short, is like completely by mistake. So what I mean by that is if we rewind a whole bunch of 14, 14 years, way more than that now, probably like 20 years ago or so, I was a pastor. I started a church here in Toronto, Canada. And I thought, this is how I'm going to like make an impact to the world. And one of the processes or one of the decisions I made when I did that was, well, how can I be an effective quote unquote leader of this church without taking a salary from the church? Because I just never wanted anybody to be like, hey, you know, my, my donations pay for that guy's clothes or his car or whatever the heck. I just didn't want any of that attached to me. So I said, you know what, I'm figure out a side hustle to pay for my bills while I focus on doing this kind of like pro bono, if you will, which almost of course led to the Internet marketing world because that's how everyone, everyone made millions. So I jumped into kind of the Internet marketing world. I mean, my first course I ever bought, I don't know if this name will make any sense to you guys, but Corey Rudolph's course, which is like the grandfather of all Internet marketing. The first guy to sell car secrets on the Internet and information product. That's right. I got into his stuff and then that opened more doors and more doors and you know, Armin Morin's big seminar. And then like this new wave of Internet guys came around like the Frank Kerns and the John Reese's of the world. And I was like, just in the thick of it. And I did what they told me to do, which was create an ebook, sell the ebook, turn the ebook into a course, sell the course and, you know, just kind of go with the flow of things. And so I figured that's what I'm gonna do. I created a course under a pen name, an ebook under a pen name. And I said, well, I need a way to sell this stuff I don't really know how to do. And I was a little too late to the Google AdWords game at that point. A couple of slaps happened. People were freaking out. I said, well, I don't wanna play in that arena. And it just so happened, I think right place, right time. It just so happened that both Facebook came out and released their advertising platform in beta, as did the dating site, Plenty of fish.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah. So I figured let's kind of deep dive into both of these and see where this will take us. And literally, I mean, it was the wild, wild west back then. You could say anything, you could do anything, you could put images of whatever the heck you wanted. I mean, the rule of thumb at the time was if you could show, and I mean, I don't mean this in any bad way as possible, but if you could show like a woman with cleavage smiling, your ads are going to convert. And literally this was what the gurus of the time were suggesting you do. So long story short, we started, you know, playing on Facebook and plenty of fish. Very quickly did we see that Facebook was going somewhere with their advertising platform. So I made the decision to just go two feet in and say, I'm going to figure this out, I'm going to just focus on this. And this alone jumped two feet in, you know, had a little bit of first movers advantage. And the rest, I guess, as they say, is history. We started selling our own stuff, which led to conversations with people to say, well, can you teach us how to do that? So it was moved into a bit of like a consultancy that was also happening at the same time. And then people turned into this, well, you know what, this is too confusing. Can you just do it for us? And at that time I was like, I don't, I don't really know, but yeah, I can try if you're willing to ride this journey with me. And that was the birth of the agency. And so since then it was the agency which is kind of, you know, half our business and the consultancy training, that side of the business which is the other 50%. And it's just been a little bit of a crazy ride because, as you know, Facebook is the most stable, unchanging platform.

Oh, yeah, of course it is.

So it was smooth sailing all the way through. But yeah, I mean, literally, it started because, A, I think I was in the right place at the right time, jumping on Facebook as an advertising platform, and B, you know, I had this. It started as a side hustle and then turned into. Okay, I think, you know, this is the thing that I'm going to be doing for now on. And. And that was probably where I dove first all in probably like six years ago now.

Okay, six. I was going to ask, when did you stop pastoring? Or did you stop.

Yeah, so stopped about. About six years ago. And frankly, I was. I was actually gonna just take a year off because I thought, I've been doing this for 14 years. I need a. I need a break.

Yeah.

And that. That turned into a very long break. And so.

Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, yeah, it's. It sounds like a typical kind of progression is like, hey, get your feet wet with a side hustle or product online. We did the same kind of thing with content sold that. And then we did the whole agency route thing too. And you learn some of your best stuff owning an agency. You know, it just seems like a great way to get kind of paid to learn.

Yeah, yeah, most definitely. And we got lucky again and again, I attribute. I don't know if it's right place, right time. I don't know if the universe is conspiring in my favor, as some might say it. I don't know if it's the law of attraction or the lack thereof. I have no clue. I'm just grateful that it all kind of lined up that way. But, yeah, I mean, we got lucky. Some of our first agency clients were the biggest names out there. And I think this is because I already had. Cut my teeth a little bit on my own stuff. And then the ability to work with others and other people with fairly large names and doing some great work and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, nothing like understanding how to work with clients and then how to really make ads work on so many different levels with different niches and different industries and different budgets and different offers than owning an agency. For sure.

Totally. Yeah.

Do you think that. Do you think that Facebook ads over the years, over all the years you've done this, do you think that it's gotten easier to do Facebook ads? Or do you think it's getting harder to do Facebook ads.

I think the execution of the ads themselves is probably the same. But what has gotten harder is the fact that Facebook again is always changing. So there's always new stuff going on. The algorithm is always updating. So there's that going on. Now there's a ton of competition because like, slowly, you know, people are moving over to the platform and saying, yeah, I'm going to advertise there. So the environment has definitely changed, which has made it very challenging for most. In fact, if you look back at a lot of the agency, quote unquote gurus from when we all started, most of them are not agency anymore. Right. They're quote unquote just doing content. And I think that's because. And again, I love all these guys and they're all, we're all in the same team, but I think some of them were just like, you know what, forget this. This is way too much stress to stay on top of all these crazy change and to deal with client work. I'm just going to teach people how to do it so I don't have to be, you know, have my neck on the line every day, day in and day out for other people. So, yeah, I think results were a lot easier back then, but that's, I think just because again, the environment was a little bit more friendly and there weren't as many changes. But I still stand by the fact that Facebook today, anyways, I feel like is still the most underpriced direct response marketing platform on the planet and I think it will be for a little bit more time. So we have this amazing opportunity with it if people are just willing to ride the waves and invest the time, effort and mental anguish and energy it's going to take to stay current on there.

Yeah.

And I mean, not to mention the targeting in Facebook. I haven't seen an ad platform even come close to how granular you can get with your targeting there.

Yeah, we actually, we started experimenting with Reddit kind of recently here, the last couple months. And yeah, it's still one of those platforms not a lot of folks have done experimented with. And even us like, because we try to experiment with everything. We're like, oh yeah, why have we not tried Reddit? But the targeting there, it's getting better. But yeah, not even close, nowhere near, but some, some good potential there.

It's interesting that you said that it could be or it is still the most undervalued, you know, underpriced ads and attention you can get on Facebook. I Know, a lot of folks think it's just the opposite. So, like, what's your take? And how do you, how do you kind of navigate that?

Yeah, and here's. I get into these conversations all the time where, like, I'd have a conversation with a business owner and they're like, you know what? Here's what I've been told, man. My audience is no longer on Facebook. They're just. They're just not there. I'm like, well, where are they? They're like, they're on Instagram now. You know, they're really. I'm like, dude, that's the same bloody platform, right? Facebook owns Instagram. Use the same ads manager to, like, run the ads to Instagram. So to me, when I say Facebook, what I'm really saying is like, the, the, the book of properties that Facebook owns, including Instagram, including. And this is going to, you know, start rolling out even more aggressively, I think, as we go. Like, the WhatsApp messenger platform, the Facebook messenger platform, like, all of these. I just consider, like the full body of Facebook properties. And I think, again, the reason why a lot of people are saying no, it's. It's not the cheapest. Well, here's who is saying that. For one thing, if you talk to any of these, like, and part of the language, because I'm like, I'm a young dude too, so like, I might be considered millennial or whatever.

I think we're in there too.

Yeah, kind of, right? Maybe on the border or whatever. But all these, like, all these new school quote unquote marketers who like, never actually licked a stamp and put it on an envelope and sent it in the mail and said, this is what marketing is like when you talk. When I hang out with my old direct response marketing guys who buy television ads and buy radio placements and, like, lick stamps and place them where you've got to pay a dollar for the paper, a dollar for the stamp, and you're just like, you know, another $3 for the list that you're gonna be mail out to. When they got. When these guys look at Facebook, like, oh, my God, are you serious? You could, you could do something for, you know, pennies on the dollar for what we're used to spending. So the people who are really complaining about, oh, my God, Facebook is not that easy or it's getting more expensive, have never done real advertising. That's so true. But for those granted. So you were lucky that you were born in an era where advertising is so ridiculously easy that you can be bad at it and still make it work. I still think, like, if you look at, if you look at the YouTubes, for example, you know, comparable in price maybe, but the barrier to entry so high because it's video based. So you've got to, like, invest the time, energy, effort and money to do the videos. Right. LinkedIn is a joke. You can't even think about that. Twitter is not a bad advertising platform, but again, it's had its highs and lows and it's not near the capability that Facebook does. So, like, oftentimes I'll just challenge people and say, like, from a CPM perspective, when you factor in scale too. I mean, if you're talking about reaching a thousand people, that's one thing, but if we're talking about reaching 100 million people on any platform who can get those eyeballs for the cheapest and the most accurate and pinpoint, it's going to be hard to make an argument that any other platform other than Facebook can get you, though, that, you know, those eyeballs for the price that they can.

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. And just knowing, you know, Facebook's outlay of properties, like you said. Good point. With, like, WhatsApp coming, you know, it's not. I don't think that's available quite yet. Right.

There was some, like, testing rolled out and beta on certain accounts, but yeah, it's not. It's not fully rolled out, but the plan is to. So.

So yeah, I mean, just. Just the fact that they have that reach is like, come on, you got it. You gotta at least have some kind of presence there.

Yeah, yeah. In the future, I'm sure we'll be advertising instead of virtual reality as well. Cause they got Oculus.

Yeah, I'm telling. And that's what I appreciate about Facebook. Like, everyone has something to say about Facebook, right? Anyone who's advertising, like, oh, man, they just banned my account. Well, they banned your account because you violated a policy whether you knew it or not. Like, so, so there's that, but everyone's complaining, oh, the algorithm, this and that. I'm like, I am just so grateful that, like, never in the time of advertising history does A, a platform like Facebook exist and B, like, they're very intentional about buying up more and more properties that seem to be dominating, which this opens up our world that much more. Like when WhatsApp comes online. Beautiful. I'm waiting for that. Right. With Oculus, if that comes online, and I'm sure there's other platforms that, that Facebook's gonna Buy up. That just brings a big smile to my face and say, yeah, there's gonna be some figuring out we're gonna have to do. But never in.

Like could you ever do what you can do with Facebook. And so I let the people complain because it means they jump off the platform and it just leaves more room for me to do what I need to do.

Yeah. So what are some of the most. I mean, it seems like a pretty common failure on Facebook ads when someone's trying to get going with it is that they just quit too early or they're just too scared. Maybe they don't spend enough money.

Sure.

Are those kind of some of the common things or are there some other ones that you kind of experience?

There's yeah. And one of the things. And again, depending on who this audience is for some note. But you know, I think the people who have the hardest time actually are the people who have a little bit of direct response marketing background and they apply that to Facebook. So here's what I mean by that. Like.

If someone were to go on ebay or someone were good to go on like a Craigslist or if someone were to go to Amazon, the person going on that platform has complete commercial intent. Right. They are going with their credit card pre programmed into that platform with an intention to buy something. Nobody really browses Amazon just to browse. There's a, there's an intent to buy at some point. And so to sell on that platform makes perfect sense. Now Facebook is a different in that, you know, as entrepreneurs we think, oh, it's an advertising platform. People come with credit card in hand ready with an intention to buy, which is not the case. People do not wake up in the morning with credit cards saying, I wonder what I could buy on Facebook today? If they buy, it's either because a impulse so they see something that's like a novelty item. It kind of strikes a chord with them and they're like, oh, it's within a price point where I don't have to blink about this. So yes, I'll buy. Or they're put into, you know what our industry now beautifully terms of funnel. But either way, what. Where the problems I see happen most on Facebook is when we come in with like an old school advertising mentality where, where we're just like, hey, I'm gonna come on a social platform and I'm just gonna sell shit to people that doesn't know me. And that's where the problems happen. That's where you violate. I believe that there's Two like golden rules to advertising on Facebook. One is, and this is like, you know, a little pin off of piggybacking off of Gary Vee's jab, jab, jab, right hook. This is the idea that you must give before you ask. Especially on social and especially when trust is at an all time low. If someone doesn't know you, they don't like you, they don't trust you, they don'. They don't care who you are and their guard is up to think that everything is a scam. If you try to sell them right out of the gates, that's going to be a far harder sale than if you actually provide value in advance for sure. So when that rule gets violated and people are just like, hey, I don't know you, but look at my ad and come buy my stuff, that's where usually people have the most problem. And that's why I put such a heavy emphasis on seeing Facebook as a lead generation platform or a platform building platform versus a direct sale platform. Even though you could use it for that. I think you get the best bang for your buck when you see it as some form of lead generation first and then going from there.

Yeah. And that, that because you know, just the way, kind of like a typical customer journey or just a people journey, I guess, you know, online it's, it's kind of like you got to get that attention. You get them to take an action of some sort and then get them on a list so you can follow up and then all the magic happens after that point. At least that's the way, you know, we do it. And I'm sure most people, I mean, what's your process gonna look like for that customer journey using Facebook as a lead gen?

I love this question because we are always like balancing this delicate issue of yes, we recognize there's a customer's journey. Yes, we recognize that people need to be quote unquote, marketed to multiple times before making a purchase. But we also have to be sensitive that not everyone or not every business has the cash flow to carry 30 or 60 days before profit. So how do you balance the two? Right. How do you have a non direct sale type sequence that can still have you at least self liquidate at the very least or be profitable on day one. So that everything else that your traditional funnel has in place is actually just gravy? That's where your massive profits start to come in.

Yeah.

So after experimenting with this literally for seven years, I've created what I call and I'm doing This in air quotes, my proprietary like process, which is essentially, I call it the 3C predictable profit process. And it's a couple of, it's based on 4M's so it's easy to remember we can go through those now. But in short, it's an ad that drives someone to an opt in page that offers a lead magnet of sorts. And again, this is just using industry jargon, a lead magnet on the thank you page. Once someone opts in for that, that we're going to make a very particular type of offer. I call this a godfather offer or gfo that simultaneously allows the right people to buy now without pissing off the people who are not ready to buy now, who still will feel good about going through the rest of our sales process and buying at the end of it. And then we have also a little bit of integration with some retargeting and some email that we do to like expedite this process. But in short, we have found that, you know, so an ad to a lead magnet, and again, the lead magnet has to be positioned the right way and it has to have the certain things in it. But an ad to a lead magnet to a GFO page, a Godfather offer page that offers something on that page with a particular retargeting and email follow up has allowed us to become again, at the very least, self liquidating within the first day, first 24 hours, profitable by the first 72 hours. And then everything else that comes in through a traditional funnel is now just, you know, what Ryan Deiss might call a profit maximizer. Things that really just add to the bottom line of our efforts.

So how do you differentiate a godfather offer from any other type of offer?

Yeah, so for me, a godfather offer. And the reason we call it that is because we're trying to make an offer they can't refuse. Right. Something that for the right person. And again, I categorize all prospects into three categories. The cheetah category for ultra fast, the hare or rabbit for fast movers, and then or medium movers and then like the tortoise for the super slow mover. So just a little like high level to picture this in one's mind. The cheetahs are essentially those guys who are like, you know, those memes that are out on Facebook where the guy's like, take my money now. Those are the cheetahs. And every time I speak or anytime I talk to a group of people, there's always a percentage of people who are, who basically they're like, get out of my way. I knew from the moment I saw your ad that I wanted your solution.

And the worst thing you could do for that individual is like make them sit on a 90 minute webinar or jump through 14 hoops of your sales funnel before making them an offer. Because by that time they're derailed and they're buying from someone else. So you got the cheetahs, then you got the hares who. This is where our entire industry was born out of this idea of a sales funnel. These are the guys who need the 7 to 12 touch points, whoever came up with that stat. But you know, seven to 12 touch points before making a buy, that's what the sales funnel is for. And usually by the end of that, a percentage of your of your hair, people are going to say yes. And then you got your tortoise folks. And these guys literally, you know, they'll get on your list, they'll stay on your list, they'll stay on it for years and years to come. Never buy anything. But they'll always reply back to your email saying, I loved what you just shared with me today, thank you so much. And then somewhere down the road, anywhere from like, you know, whatever, let's call it 90 days to three years from now, they end up purchasing from you. And what I think the problem has happened with most business owners who plan their marketing is that they only tailor to the rabbit or hare folks, and they ignore the cheetahs and they ignore the tortoises. When I'm going to tell you that your cheetahs are your trick to profitability early on and your tortoises are your trick to real profitability because that's where majority of your buyers sit. And yet our entire industry focuses on the medium people. Right? So the God. Going back to the Godfather offer idea, the Godfather offer is essentially an irresistible offer positioned in such a way where your cheetah who may be sitting on the fence is pushed off the fence in your favor. So really the Godfather offers design. Is there anybody in a medium position who can be expedited to cheetah? So like hair to cheetah or a cheetah who's sitting on the fence who just needs that little bit of a nudge off the fence in your favor to say, I'm ready to buy now? So this will be an offer that a is only available if someone makes a buying decision within a very limited window. Now, when I say limited, I'm not talking about like buy now or die, your traditional OTO one time offer. I find when you do that, or at least whenever I've bought into that, there's like this huge sense of buyer's remorse that kicks in. And you're bringing in clients and prospects and customers who have like a negative mindset about you versus a positive mindset.

Sure.

And it makes the other people pissed off. Like, well, I guess I missed that deal. I can never get that again.

So we're not.

We're not really saying buy now or die, but we're saying, hey, you have a limited window to make a buying decision today. Because I believe one of the reasons why people don't buy from us is because they feel like they have time to make a decision. The longer you extend that time, the longer usually the inevitable decision gets pushed off until, I mean, I don't know, how many times have you opened up an Amazon tab and said, oh, yeah, I'll get back to that later. It's like, later never comes.

Later never comes. Yep.

Yeah, I don't know how many of those I've had. So we just want to encourage, and we put a little bit of a time, a time barrier on there. And then to me, there's three elements of a great goal, let's call it four elements to a great Godfather offer minus this time barrier. One is it's a discount of sorts, Right. I mean, it's no coincidence that Black Friday and Cyber Monday are the most lucrative days from traditional businesses selling products, because everybody waits for those days and they offer a discount. Right? So discount has, in a way, an ability to create someone or to cause someone to take an action faster than they normally might. The second thing is what I would call a stacked bonus. So this is the essential belief that, hey, if you buy now, you're also going to get this, this, and this and this that you normally wouldn't get if you bought anytime else. And the sweeter you can make that bonus, ideally, if your bonus could be actually worth more than the core offer itself, even better. So first you got a discount. Secondly, you got a bonus. Thirdly, if you can, a risk reversal guarantee. So this is not just a money back guarantee. It's not an unconditional money back guarantee. This is a risk reversal guarantee. So an example of that that I do, let's say at our intensives, for example, is. Or my first ever intensive, actually, when you walked into the room as an enrollee or a participant of the intensive, first thing you would have noticed when you walk into the room is that there is a table at the back of the room that has a check made out to you with your name on it for the amount that you paid to be at the intensive, plus an additional $500 written on there.

Wow.

And our risk reversal guarantee was simple and it was if at, by the end of day one of a two day intensive, if by, at the end of day one you don't feel like you got 100% of the value that you were promised, simply go back to the room, return your workbook, grab your check and cash it. So that at least we could say your experience with us was a profitable one. That is you made $500 just for being here and not liking it. Right. So that's an example of a risk reversal guarantee where we take on the risk to deliver versus the client or the customer. The prospect taking on the risk to say, well, maybe I can buy it, maybe I can't, even if I do and I don't like it, I only get my money back. It's not worth me like jumping through hoops to take them up in this offer. So those are three. And the fourth one then is a good reason why. This is based on a little bit of Cialdini's work, which Cialdini says a reason why is better than no reason why. And I go to say, a good reason why is better than just the reason why. So if you tell people, hey, this is the reason why we're doing this. This is the reason why this discount exists. Most people respect that because oftentimes they're already skeptical and they're like, ah, what's the catch here? Like, why is there a discount? Why all these bonuses? What's happening here? And we tend to find, hey, honesty is the best policy. If you tell people straight up, look, and this is what I do in my videos, in fact, I'm just like, look guys, here's the reality. The moment you click off this page, the likelihood of you taking the intended action that you did when you came on this page goes down drastically, almost to zero. And I like to reward decisive decision takers. So here's the fact that the reason why I'm giving you this a massive discount, B, and all these bonuses is because. And thirdly, this risk reversal guarantee because frankly, if you leave, you might not purchase. And I know that this can benefit you here. So I want to, you know, again, incentivize a fast action taker so you get the value and so do I, that sort of thing. You know, people just respect that. They're like, well, that makes total sense. And so the idea here, again, just going back to the whole concept of it is, is how, how do we present something that's tailored to the three speeds of prospects without pissing any one of the other speeds off? And how do we get profitable very early running Facebook ads so that we can reinvest those profits back into marketing without having to wait 60 or 90 days before we could see a profit? You know, this process really helps us do that.

That is so amazing. I mean that's. Yeah, Matt and I were like furiously taking notes over here as we were listening. But yeah, I mean this whole thing is just, just human psychology. It seems like you're walking them through this natural process. And inherently personalities are all different. Like you said, cheetah, rabbit or hare and tortoise, they're all different speeds and you just cater to them. And what's the makeup of the cheetah and the hairs percentage wise that you found? You said that the majority of your buyers are tortoises.

Yeah, and here's, this is actually based on a study, a consumer study that Dean Jackson brought light to for me a few years back. And it just, just, it kind of reshifted how we did everything. Here's what the study showed. It showed that 50% of the people who inquire about something end up buying that something within two year time period. Right. So if, you know, this couple went to inquire about a washer and dryer for their home, if 100 couples, let's say, went to inquire about a washer and dryer, 50 of them would buy them within a two year time period. So, so, so we know it doesn't mean they'll buy it from the original source that they inquired about, but it just means that they will buy a washer and Dr. Now of that 50% who end up saying yes, here are the statistics. 15% of them will buy within the first 90 days and 85% of them will buy between day 91 and two years. Now if you just think about that, that means the vast majority of your buyers are between day 91 and two years from now of all the people who are going to buy from you anyways. And yet most of the Internet marketing world, and I use that term loosely, most of the Internet marketing world essentially says hey, if they don't buy within my first seven day funnel, they're a dead lead, they're just never going to buy and we ignore them. Right. When statistics are showing that's where majority of your buyers are. So what we have found essentially is the Godfather offer. What percentage of People will purchase within that first little like three day time frame, let's call it. We have seen. We, we will know something's wrong if at least 3% of cold traffic is not buying. And again, keep in mind, this is half contingent upon the offer on the price. Like if you're offering a $27 product versus a $2,700 product, that would skew the numbers a little bit. But we're looking a minimum of 3%. And in my world, at least for my particular funnels, we've seen as high as 19%. I know that's a big, big reach, but essentially we'd say we want to turn it off if at least 3% of the people aren't buying within that first little window there, which may not sound much to the person who doesn't do much marketing, but 3% on cold traffic is pretty darn good because most people are like, oh, I got a percentage and a half and I'm happy with that. Right. So this way we really see everybody through the process, really benefit. And when you actually push it out to having a strategy that caters to the tortoises as well, that percentage jumps up drastically. We're now talking like 20 to 30%. If you have the wherewithal and the patience to play it out for two years, those numbers go up drastically.

Now, have you seen any sort of specific lead magnet style that's worked really well for most people?

Yes. I love this question because, like, this is something that we've tested our brains out on because, look, not all lead magnets are created equal, right? And I think everyone can like mentally attest to that and say, yeah, of course, like they're not created equal. But here's the argument that I hear a lot of times. So let's say someone's offering an ebook, for example, as a lead magnet. The mindset is, hey, we'll just give them an ebook. And as long as we capture the lead, I don't even really care if they read my ebook because my only job is to capture the lead. My actual belief here though, is that our marketing performs two functions. Function number one is marketing, obviously creating the dollar and the desire to create the sale. But secondly, it's also creating a behavior in our marketplace on how to interact with us. So if I were to give you an ebook, and you didn't read the ebook, and you didn't care to read the ebook, and you had no intention to read the ebook, even if I got your name and your email address as a lead, what I'M essentially saying is, hey guys, you know what? It's totally fine that every time I give you content not to consume it, don't worry about it, it's cool. So there are certain things that we want to avoid and I'll just, I'll random them, I'll ring them off here. Without actually going into the psychology of why, sure. We avoid ebooks oftentimes for the reason, like I just mentioned, we avoid webinars because I believe we transact with two currencies, time and money. And time is more valuable than money. And for someone who you don't know to say, hey, give me 90 minutes of your time, it's actually a pretty big um. We avoid like three part video series or anything that like is extended over time because we see the drop off so big. So for us, a lead magnet. I define a lead magnet. That is a one to two page downloadable PDF that is executionable on some level. And the acronym I like to use with all of our lead magnets is sage S A G E S stands for short. It needs to be able to be consumed in three to five minutes. If it takes longer than three to five minutes to consume the thing, it's too long. A stands for applicable or action oriented. In other words, people don't want information, right? If all you do is provide information, you're competing against Google. Like there's just silly. What people do want though is insight. And I believe the difference between information and insight is simply what to do with information to get a desired outcome. So it has to actually allow someone to apply it and get one step closer to their goal. Which actually brings me to the gift goal oriented. This idea that no matter what you're selling, everybody is on some sort of a journey to go from point A to point Z. And if your thing can help them get that one step closer to Z. And I'm not saying get them all the way there, I'm just saying get them one step closer. That's going to be. It's going to serve you super well. And E stands for easy. Most people tend to like over. Like if I were to offer a lead magnet that was like, hey, what's the easiest way to lose weight overnight? And I said, well, you have to like fly to the Himalayan mountains and get a very particular crystal from some shaman guru who's on the top of this particular peak. Like people are going to be like, screw you. Like, I don't care, it ain't going to happen.

But if I'm like, hey, it's Cool.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't be there. But if I'm like, hey, just go to your local, local grocery store, buy a lemon, cut it in half, squeeze the lemon into the water every morning and like, it'll help detoxify, like that's easier to do. So the point here is lead magnets, that's kind of the ideas on what you want to include in there. And then I will just say this. We always have our lead magnets to have a very particular introduction and pre framing, then the content itself and then a very particular closing call to action. Most lead magnets, no matter how bloody good they are that I've seen on the marketplace are just the content, the middle section. And what that ends up creating is hand claps instead of, you know, checkbooks, if you will. Like people like, wow, that was great content. Bravo is so good. But they were never primed or pre framed to actually take that next step in your sales process. So I believe the, the introduction and the pre framing of your lead magnet and how you end the lead magnet with a closing slash call to action is more important than the content itself because to me, the only role of the lead magnet it is. Well, there's two. One is to provide value and prove you can help somebody by actually helping them. And then secondly is to tee up your sale. And if you're not doing both of those, then essentially you're going to go to a whole bunch of people who end up being leads but never customers. And that kind of defeats the entire purpose.

Yeah, then all your follow ups are just, they're just going to fall on deaf ears if you've not trained them to actually consume the content and pay attention and take action and all these things. Yeah, it just makes perfect sense, right? I mean, yeah, if we didn't do it right, no one would be listening to these podcasts.

Totally useless.

I love that. No, and that's. There's just so many different things here. I like the sage thing and I know you have what, the perfect ad template. And what's the URL to that? Because I know you were going to give that away here.

Yeah, sure. So it's nicholaskouzmich.com perfect ad template. Pretty straightforward there. And that is our 10 stage ad writing formula. So one of the greatest frustrations we have found and we've heard from the marketplace is that moment you log into your ads manager, you look at where you're supposed to type in the text and you just see that blinking cursor staring back at you being like, come on, what do you got? Go ahead, write. Nothing more frustrating than that. Over time, what we've discovered is a simple ten stage ad writing formula that goes literally from step one all the way to step ten. You, you just follow the template based on three core principles. I call them look, hook, and took, capture attention, create connection, and give a call to action. 90% of the ads that we write follow this formula. It's what we teach all the time. And no one would ever feel stuck now saying, I just don't know what to write for an ad. Now you can know exactly what to write and get high conversions every time you do.

That's awesome. Cool. Yeah. So we'll link that in the show notes. I just wanted to, to give a little shout out there because I'm like.

This is perfect study.

People can go check out to see exactly what you're explaining here.

And that too.

Yeah, yeah, It's a double whammy, you know, Right? Yeah. There's so many cool things. And going back to the Godfather offer, I think it's just so powerful because it seems like that would be the perfect tool for someone to use if they are just, you know, if they have a limited budget or they've been gun shy to keep an ad going for longer than seven days or, or something like that. You can actually fund this thing now. So even if it's like 15% like you said, are from that study, that are the cheetahs, boom, that's 15% more dollars you can put in your ads to elongate to get to the 85%.

Yeah. And here's what we found, and that is, and why I put a lot of emphasis on the offer itself, is that you could have terrible marketing in a really great offer and it'll convert, but you can't have the opposite. You can't have amazing marketing and a terrible offer and see it convert. So if there's anywhere where anyone should put, you know, their initial intention. And here's where I don't like having conversations about Facebook ads because most of the conversations are just like, oh, well, what kind of bidding strategy should I use? Well, that's only relevant if you have a kick ass offer. If your offer is garbage and is not converting, you could have the best bidding strategy in the world and you can have the best image in the world and you can have the best, like, you know, ad copy in the world, but if the offer is not there, you're just not going to see the return. So I think people should see this from A holistic standpoint and realize that Facebook is one part of the puzzle. Of course. But when we're looking at it, at least where I put my focus is the quote unquote, top of funnel strategy is how do we take a cold prospect who doesn't know you and get them to transact with you within 72 hours? How do we do that? And that's a combination of good ads and good offers, obviously. And that's where you start to see, okay, well, maybe I can make this Facebook thing work.

Yeah, see, that's the thing. It's the offer. I mean, that goes for any kind of content you're putting out there too. Crappy con or crappy offer, Good luck with that content.

How much are you doing below the top of funnel? Are, do you do a lot of retargeting and are you actually driving people back to the offer through retargeting or anything like that? Or is from that point on it's kind of. You're working the list.

Yeah. So great point. So we always find, and here's kind of a strategy that we'll just throw out there. It's what I call a mirror campaign, or sometimes I've dubbed this the surround sound campaign. Obviously the list is such an important asset to so many people's businesses. The problem that we're facing right now is most people, if you look at their iPhone and you look at their little like envelope icon for email, like never in the history of existence did we see people have like 40,000 unread emails.

Right?

That is just ridiculous. Now I'm fortunate enough where I can maintain inbox zero through a lot of discipline and some certain systems, but the average person has hundreds of unread emails. So as much as the leads list, the email list is important in and of itself. The problem is it is becoming like a degrade, a degraded asset only because of volume. Right. Most people are just so overwhelmed that email open rates are going at an all time low. So the question that I've always figured out, or wanted to figure out is like, how do we balance the fact that email is an important thing and it's proven to work over and over and over and over again. But how do we layer on another strategy that's going to get us the same results as email and kind of piggyback off that? It's what we call a surround sound strategy or again, the mirror campaign. And the general rule is this.

Obviously if you don't know this, you should, that you can take any database that you own. And upload it to Facebook as a custom audience. This should be true of your customer list. This should be true of your leads list. This should be true of your suppression list. Like any kind of data that you own should be uploaded as a custom audience to Facebook. So here's our general rule of thumb. Once you've done that is that every core piece of content that ever goes out via email and you can decide what you determine as core pieces of content. If you're sending three emails a day, they're not all core pieces of content. But if you send a notice once a week, maybe that's core piece of content. But the rule is this, whenever you send out a core piece of content, you mirror the content of the email by means of a Facebook ad and you drive that ad to the exact same custom audience. And what we have found happen now as a result of that is this weird kind of like synergistic thing where the click through rates increase on these ads, as does the email open rates. And I think what is happening is someone might see it in their inbox and ignore it and then they might see the ad that reminds them of that and they're like, oh yeah. And then they go open the email or they go click on the ad or vice versa. But the case in point here is we're not just relying on the one channel now to get that message out. That is email. We now have two channels at minimum. Now if you add in text messaging, you have three channels now. But let's just say Facebook retargeting for the sake of this conversation. Now you're doubling your chance of having people see that content click through and then take the desired action. So the short answer to. Oh, the long answer to like, are we doing retargeting on top of email? 100%. And that strategy changes slightly within that first like godfather window, which is a little bit more aggressive because we have a short time to get specific ads in front of people during that window. And then after that windows expires. Yeah, we're doing a lot of what we'd call mirror campaigns to match the emails to drive people back to our offers.

That's really cool. It's basically like email retargeting, it seems like.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I like that. So what would you like? Would the like the title of that ad? You know, obviously there's a lot of different types of ads, but would that be like the subject line for instance? And then.

Yeah, so. So, yeah, because a lot of people who do email obviously are. Are Investing heavy into the subject line. And they know all the psychology of email. So, yes, your subject line would end up being the headline of the ad.

Your copy, depending on if you're a long email guy or a short email guy. But your copy would at worst just like mimic the overall essence of it. Or at best be it word for word, copy and paste, depending on how you write. And then your call to action will be the same. The link would drive to the same place. The only difference is if you don't use a creative in your email, you'd have to come up with a relevant poppy image that could work on your ad because that way people will stop and actually read it. And it's gonna work much better than just text. Yeah.

Yeah, I love it.

Have you experimented at all with messenger bots?

Yes. And you know, Seth Godin, I believe, was the guy who said that, like, marketers ruin everything.

Yeah.

So that's true of bot stuff. Like when bots first came out, everyone's like, oh my God, the new holy grail of advertising. Like 100% deliverability rate and everybody loves it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which was true for the first five minutes.

Exactly.

And then the marketers took a hold of that and Facebook actually caught on. And currently there's some discussion of whether they can fix this or not. But Facebook is in talks about like having a messenger promotional tab. Just like Gmail has a promotional tab tab, so anytime you get a message that seems promotional in nature, Facebook will automatically filter that into a promotional tab. Very similar to like these other like filters that we have in our messenger box that we don't even know exists, like requested messages or whatever, which would be extremely devastating to anybody who does messenger traffic type stuff. But long and short of it is, in all of our tests, we have found that messenger ads tend to work. Work best as middle and bottom of funnel strategies versus top. I think this is true because at this point, the person has some sort of affinity with you. And so if you're like middle of funnel pushing someone to content or bottom of funnel pushing people to the sale, at this point, they should have, in a perfect world, ideally, already received value from you. So they're not kind of.

Resistant to clicking on or responding to something that you see in their. In their message inbox. But right now, and again, I don't know about you, but anytime I see a messenger ad pop up of any sorts, I, I immediately ignore it because I'm like, okay, this, this is gonna be the. This. They're gonna suck me into their little bot magic and I'm gonna be harassed for. For kingdom come. So.

But the market is typically different. But yeah, you're right. Yeah. For us being the marketers for the like, I see what you're doing here.

Right, right. So I like them. But again, I think our best usage thus far has been middle of funnel, bottom of funnel versus top of funnel for messenger type ads.

Oh, and I could totally see Facebook doing like a promotions tap because I mean, Facebook obviously knows whether a message was sent via an API versus via their actual platform. So they have a pretty easy way to segment, I guess, easily. I have sort of a selfish question. I. Are you still doing a podcast? Didn't you had like the accelerated results podcast? Is that still going?

Yeah, so yes and no. So. So the. The whole point of that was to. To see if I could have another channel.

That I could distribute content on that could be as automated as possible. So the whole vision behind the accelerated results podcast, which, yes, it technically still does currently exist, we're working out some technical bugs, but was to the point where it didn't have to be a real podcast in the sense where I didn't have to interview people. I didn't, you know, pretty it up and make it perfect. It was literally. I would record content, I'd put it into. We literally have a Google Drive folder called Content Machine that would set off a bunch of automations, including pushing that content to YouTube. It would push it to SoundCloud, to iTunes and all the rest of that. The process of automating that was a lot more difficult than we originally banked on.

So does the podcast exist? The answer is yes. Is it a traditional podcast?

No.

But once we can work out some of these tech bugs of getting the content published to there regularly, yes, there will be content there. It just won't be a podcast as professionally done as this one.

I love that.

Appreciate that.

You sound like me. I always try to figure out these little ninja automations to make stuff. That's what I do in my free time, is try to figure out how to build stuff like that.

I love it. If it works.

If it works. Yeah.

Always harder to work than we originally planned.

Exactly.

So follow up question to that. How would you go about promoting a podcast on Facebook ads? There's where kind of the selfish question came in. Is kind of curious what you do there.

So it's a little bit tricky in the sense where people have asked us to help them with that all the time. And the tricky part with it is the fact that you can't actually track your KPIs, because for the most part, anyone who has a podcast, One of their KPIs is either, you know, a new podcast downloader, a new subscriber, there's no way to, like, drop a pixel somewhere on the back end of itunes to let you know every time someone has done that. So the only real.

Way to track any sort of anything that's similar to that would be clicks. Right. And even clicks is not going to be all that accurate. So there would have to be. I would. I'm always looking for a way to double dip somehow. So if I were to promote a podcast, I would probably do it on the back end of a lead generation play, because at least I would generate the leads, which would be a valuable asset to me. And then from there I can say, oh, well, by the way, also, you know, get this out there, you know, subscribe to the podcast. Dean Jackson, I don't know if you're familiar with his super signature idea.

Not that one, no.

Don't think so.

Okay, so. So what I love about this is Dean Jackson came up with this concept called the Super Signature. And it's at the end of every content. Well, I say at the end of every content piece, but he does it at the end of every email. But at the end of every content piece, he ends by saying, ps, whenever you're ready, these are the three best ways I can help you. And so for him, he's got a podcast, too. More cheese, less whiskers. One of the ways is, hey, come subscribe to the podcast or even be a guest on the podcast. And like, that's one of the ways he can help you. The second is, like, you know, come to a meetup or whatever. Or thirdly, buy my course or whatever. Right. So the idea is, when I did have the podcast, or, you know, whenever I have a lead magnet or. Or an intensive or whatever it be, every time I put content out into the world, you'll see a super signature of sorts at the end of that. And it could say something again along the lines of, hey, whenever you're ready, These are the three best ways I can help you. Number one, go to iTunes and subscribe to my accelerated results podcast. Number two, download, like maybe my free lead magnet template or my free ad writing template, or C, come enroll in our intensive or something like that. So. So I would always forget if I was promoting a podcast on the front end. Cold traffic would be some sort of a lead gen play where the back end somehow would be double dipping and saying, go enroll in the podcast. And I'd put that in front of them as much as I could. And then I would actually dedicate a clicks campaign for retargeting or remarketing. So anybody who's somewhat warm to me, I'd come up with some great copy that would encourage them to say, hey, my best content actually lives on my podcast. And these are. Or some of our previous guests. If you haven't already subscribed, you know, click here and go subscribe. And I just put a low daily budget that would auto feed that to my warm audience on a regular basis. That would be how we do it kind of on the back end of things.

Oh, I love that. That's awesome.

I love that super signature concept too. That's. That's so cool.

We just looked it up actually on like one of your blog posts. The 1% changes everything, which was cool because it says war room. We were actually there last month with Roland. But yeah, I saw the example of the three best ways I can help you out.

There you go.

There it is.

Like, and literally, like, you could do that at the end of a podcast, you could do that at the end of an email, you could do that in the end of a blog post. Like, whatever, it'd be a Facebook Live. And there's beautiful unwritten psychology about that. You're not saying, hey, come buy my stuff right now. You're just simply saying, hey, whenever you're ready, these are the three best ways I can help you. Assuming A, that at some point they're going to be ready. Secondly, that you are always ready to help them, them. And third, them to assume that when they are ready, these are the soft ways that they could do that. We have found, like, every time content goes out, even though the content itself is not promotional in nature at all, it still creates and generates transactions because of how that's positioned.

I love that.

Yeah. It's actually one of our personal missions to figure out how to bring podcasting into the current era of technology. Because a lot of the that stuff is so archaic when it comes to tracking. We actually did find one resource that you might think is kind of cool. Once you get the podcast up and going, there's a website called Podsites P O D S I G H T S. Okay. Basically what you do is you take your RSS feed from your podcast, you plug it into their site, they give you a new RSS feed, and that new RSS feed is what you serve to itunes and Spotify and all Those places. Now, their RSS feed actually manages to collect IP addresses in the background when somebody listens to an episode, regardless of what platform they listen to it on. And supposedly you can actually take this CSV file of IP addresses and upload them as an offline conversion event inside of Facebook.

Well, now, see that? That will open up an entire world for podcasters who actually want to promote podcasts.

Yeah, that's like, fascinating. Yeah. If we can start doing that. Yeah. And that's. It's still like. Cause that company, it's like buried on their page. It's not even a big selling point. I'm like, oh, my God, that's a massive sell. Yeah.

No, that company's whole USP is that they help you with your analytics for sponsorship reasons so that you can give data to sponsors, but that one feature of you can download the CSV file of all of your listeners IP addresses and upload them as offline conversions. It's literally buried in their sales page with like one single sentence that you can do that.

That should be on the forefront. Unless we want to keep this a secret. But I mean, this is actually the.

First time we brought it up.

Yeah, I mean, but that changes the game, right? Because I like, one of the sticking points for a lot of people who advertise is, again, they're not measuring their metrics. And if you don't measure your metrics, like, what on earth are you doing? Which is one of the reasons why a, like, we could never promote a podcast properly or we could never promote, like a book on Amazon because there's just no way to track it. But with something like this, like, that can change the game for all these people who have podcasts, including myself, soon to be able to get an idea and start pushing people there.

Yeah, that's the podcasting space. They're not really thinking marketing yet.

They will.

But yeah, for now, it's like just kind of try to do it yourself. You mentioned the book. I know you have a book called Give.

Yeah.

You want to give a shout out there about it. Yeah.

Well, so here's the thing. I had no intentions ever to write a book. And writing the book was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I've done some pretty hard things, but this was just a lot of work. But the case in point was, like, people ask me, like, if you were to just summarize everything, you know to be true about Facebook advertising into a book, could you do that? And that's what give ended up being. It was like, and again, I'm going to be the first to, like, let everyone know. This is not necessarily tactical in the weeds. This is the button you push on Facebook, because if I wrote that book the moment it was released, it would have to be rewritten 400 times because of Facebook. So this is like my higher level 4m strategy that we didn't really get to dive too deep into. But some of the things we talked about here is covered in much more depth in the book. And so if you're either making Facebook ads work for you right now and you just want to figure out a way to get even better results, or you're just like, I don't know if Facebook's right for me and can it work for my business? It'll be just as valuable to you as a person who's spending millions on Facebook because it shows you kind of a ticker into my brain on how I approach Facebook, which is oftentimes pretty different than how most people do. And we'll give you kind of a leg up in that way.

Awesome, man. Yeah, so give. I know it's on Amazon. Is there a better way to get it or is that the best?

Yeah, that's, that's, that's the best way. But please note, I get all these people writing in our customer service. We ordered the book and it didn't arrive. You got to take that up with Amazon. Amazon is shipping the book, not me. But.

Amazon. We let the channel of Amazon deal with all that for us.

Sweet.

Awesome. Well, this conversation has been amazing, and I want to be respectful of your time. I feel like I could go a whole nother hour on this conversation. I think we got to about half of our notes here of stuff that we thought would be cool to chat about.

So we'll have to book an encore.

Yeah, man, we will. That's super cool.

But we do have a few last minute wrap up questions before we let you go.

Do you have, like, a marketing tool stack or tools that you just couldn't live without in your business now?

Ooh, no. I mean, I'm, I'm. Yes and no. I mean, but the tools always change and there's always, like, new and better technology that are coming around. But if anybody is, like, looking to better their quote unquote marketing advertising game, I would just say, like, invest in the classics, right? So, like, one of my favorite books, for example, is like, Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwarz. It's been out of print and you can only get it through Brian Kurtz and all this other fancy Business. But like those old school guys who just kind of of like, knew how to do it when things were tough just makes marketing so much easier when you can, when you can do it, you know, now, when it's easy.

Yeah. Love it.

Love it.

So you're not answering.

Oh, I was going to say you're not using any tools like ad espresso or Quiet or any of those kinds of things.

Yeah, no, we were, we, we old school like that. We just go into the Ads Manager. And the reason for that, and I'll just provide a little bit of light, is because we like to have full control over how we do things. And oftentimes when you use another tool, they have a way that they like to do things and they, they did. They, you know, covered under the guise that, oh, it's so much easier. One push of the button creates 400 ad sets. I mean, technically I can do that in Facebook Ads Manager myself if you just know what buttons to push. So, yeah, we like having full control over and that's why Ads Manager is our way to go.

Yeah. And I agree with you, we don't use any of that stuff either. And I mean, the way Facebook has sort of evolved as well.

Right.

With campaign budget optimization now you can kind of do this, the same stuff. Now Facebook has split testing. You can do the. What is it? The dynamic creatives and stuff. So I mean, you kind of get the same stuff now, just built in, built automatically in.

Yeah, I love it. It's scary to build a tool on top of a big old platform like Facebook.

Well, you answered the other question that we always ask. Favorite book. So that's Breakthrough Advertising, Eugene Schwartz. And we actually are having Brian Kurtz on the podcast cast in a couple months or so. So that'll be great.

He's an amazing dude. I love everything about him. So that's great.

Any other book you'd want to shout out other than your own?

Yeah, well, you know what? Books have always been this weird, like, seasonal thing for me. So depending on like what I'm going through at the time or what I need to, like, overcome at the time, like, there's always just been like that proper book that sat in my lap. But yeah, that's why I like to go back to like the classic, like breakthrough advertising or like scientific advertising, some of this stuff that just is not going anywhere and the application of it is like cross plat platform, like cross generational, for that matter.

Generational. Yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

This has been amazing. Yeah. And maybe we'll do A round two pretty soon or you know, in the future. We'll, we'll give it some time to breathe here. But this is super cool. We'll get some feedback, I'm sure from a lot of folks.

So you've got Nicholas Kuzmich.com perfect ad template. That's where they can go and get the, that's the like the, the 10. That's the 10 step AD template, right?

Yeah, that's, that's both a 10 step AD template and your way to kind of like funnel hack my process to see, see how we do things and why you want to do them that way. Absolutely love it.

Is there anywhere else you'd want to send them other than that or just go there?

Well, I mean that's the best place if you want the ad writing template or to see how we set things up. I mean, if you are serious about wanting help from me, the best way I could do that is through my little membership community called the Council. And that's@nicholaskouzma.com thecouncil you can read all about it there. But that's like if you want access to me and some other really bright, intelligent minds on a daily basis who can really help push through things for you, that probably be the best place ago.

Awesome. We'll link it all in the show notes. As always, appreciate, appreciate your time, man. Appreciate you breaking down all of your knowledge here. This is super cool now.

It was a ton of fun. I appreciate you guys and look forward to doing it again.

All right, brother, have a good one.

All right, see you later.

Thank you.

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