Nick Loper — Side-Hustles To Make Money In Your Spare Time

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy.

My boy, Matt Wolf. Joe Finn. Hey. It's a fabulous day here at the Hustle and Flowchart headquarters, also known as Matt's office.

Matt's laundry room.

Oh, office next to his laundry room with the screaming kids outside of the door. Yeah, sometimes.

Well, it's funny because this, the office we are in, legit used to be our laundry room.

No, it used to be a crafting.

Room, which was part of the laundry room.

Yeah, Matt had like the biggest crafting room in the world. And it's like, I don't craft that much. I don't sew, you know, quilts that much. You don't sew quilts, huh? You knit quilts? See? Yeah, Matt needs to teach me about quilting and stuff.

What the hell are you even talking about now?

I have no damn clue. So today we're not going to talk about laundry or quilting. Luckily, you could maybe as a side hustle. You never know.

It's true.

See how I tied that back?

So today we're talking to the Side Hustle master.

Okay, so it's Nick Loper. I wanted to keep going on that. Nick Loper is a badass and has created this fricking community and podcast and kind of movement called Side Hustle Nation. And basically, I mean, you've heard of things like Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Thumbtack, a million other things out there. There's just so many cool ways you can make money these days by leveraging these other platform services, kind of these peer to peer networks out there. But there's. What's really cool is you can actually do this to pay for stuff you already have, like cars, like houses or, or your time, or whatever you might be doing. But you can build this into a legit business if you want as well, or not. It could just be like side hustle Cash, if you want.

No. Very cool. Yeah, I mean, we're gonna talk about all sorts of side hustles. We ask them questions like, what are some of the most unique side hustles you've seen? What side hustles, what is the one side hustle you've seen turn into careers for the most amount of people. So we really dive into all these little kind of interesting ways to earn income online. But we also, if you are a podcaster, if you're interested in podcasting, we actually go off on a little tangent for a few minutes in this episode and really dive into some strategies around podcasting. How to grow a podcast, how to monetize a podcast, and, you know, various sort of selfish questions that we ask the dude because he's got, like, a top 20 podcast in the business category on itunes. And, you know, it's not every day we get to talk to guys who have made that kind of reach on itunes. So we really dive in on podcasting and a whole bunch of different side Hustle strategies.

Yeah, you're going to love it. There's something here for everyone.

And.

And, yeah, and the show notes, you know, we're doing this more commonly all the time now, is that we actually create little cheat sheets for you. So if you go to the show notes@evergreenprofits.com you look for Nick Loper on the list, or there's a little search bar on there that you could search his name, and you're gonna be able to just sign up for free, get that cheat sheet. And basically, you don't have to take notes, which is cool. We did the work for you.

There you go.

So go check it out. And if you. If you're an itunes or stitcher or wherever you're listening to the podcast, please subscribe. We would love you for that. We already love you, but, you know, just. You'll get a little higher love from us.

Yeah. All right, let's. Let's jump over and chat with Nick side Hustle Loper.

Sure.

Hey, Nick, thanks so much for joining us. How you doing today?

Doing great. How are you?

Really, really good. Yeah, I think this is the second time that we've gotten to chat. I think we chatted a couple years ago on my last podcast, the Authority Insider Show. And sure, a ton has changed since then, and it'll be just really interesting to see how things have changed in the last two years in the world of side hustling and podcasts and this world that we all operate in.

Never a dull moment, and it's always fun. We get to run into each other once a year at Traffic and Conversion, whether we need to or not.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's right. That's where I met you the first time. I think Matt probably goes back a little further there, but yeah, the side Hustle thing, super cool. We actually, years back, Matt and I had a little blog that we attempted to do some, you know, some education around side Hustle and forget what that was called.

It's called Gig hopping dot com. And you actually just refresh my memory. That's how we initially got introduced in. We had a site called gig hopper gighopping.com. we were trying to build this brand around gig hopping and try to get people to adopt this term of gig hopping in the same way they talk about side hustling and it never caught on, but we tried to get people to adopt it. And so we were kind of starting to go down that vein. We went down it for about two months and sort of pivoted. But that was back in about 2010.

Maybe a little while ago.

Yeah, and I think when we were in that process. Actually, no, I think it was a little later. I think it was maybe 2012, 2013. But when we started to go down that process, we started to look at other names in that niche, other people that were talking about the same kind of things. And I think that's when we initially crossed paths and I think started communicating back and forth through Twitter.

That sounds about right.

Twitter. I think that's the first connection I've heard on this podcast. Met you through Twitter.

I love Twitter. I wish more people would use it.

Let's go ahead. And for anybody who's listening to this show who doesn't know you and some of your backstory, can you bring us up to date with what you used to do and how you got to where you are today in your current business?

Yeah, sure. I used to do a lot of different things on the business front. I did.

A house painting business while I was in college. I did a footwear comparison shopping site that was my kind of original side hustle, I'll call it.

Started way back in the day, like direct link, Google AdWords style of stuff. Putting your affiliate link in the destination URL. A dollar a day budget. So just, you know, I was still in college, like a very, very small, you know, starting out on a very small scale. Went and worked corporate after that just because that's what you're supposed to do after graduation and wasn't, you know, fully confident in my ability to cut my own paycheck yet. And that's when I was building the shoe site up nights and weekends and ultimately quit my job to do the shoe thing full time. Ran that in various forms for almost a decade. Actually probably a little over a decade. And on the side from that started half a dozen other projects, including the side Hustle show. So now that's kind of the main focus these days.

Very cool. So that Side Hustle show, that's pretty much. Does that generate your income? Is that the main gig for you then?

It does. It's turned into the main gig over time. Started as a little side project Experiment. And then over the years, it's kind of grown and it's become more fun, and it started to generate revenue on its own. This year it'll just. On sponsorships. It'll probably be a 45 to $50,000 a year business, which is really close to what I was making at my old job.

Wow, you said the magic S word. Sponsorships. We actually just came back from a big podcasting event in Austin. We were speaking there and, yeah, we met a guy who's, you know, almost a million dollar in sponsorship off of, you know, just his. His simple podcast and radio show. I was like, oh, my God, like, that's some good stuff.

What. What podcast event was that?

It was called the New Media Summit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically the event was designed for people who want to get on podcasts. It wasn't necessarily designed to. For podcasters to learn more about podcasting. It was designed for people who have brands or their coaches or, you know, whatever they want to. They want to boost their personal brand by being featured on more podcasts was kind of the theme. Okay, so not. Not like, you know, there's like podcast movement and some of these other bigger podcasting events which are geared towards talking to podcasts. This was kind of like the other side of the microphone, I guess you could say.

Oh, that's good.

Well, cool. Well cool that you guys were up on stage there.

Yeah. But I think the sponsorship thing, we never really harnessed that, and we don't have sponsors currently. But if sponsor opportunities are listening right now, we are open. But it's just an interesting way to obviously fund your podcast in kind of a passion, because this is what we love doing, is connecting with folks like you and going deep. Yeah.

And we should add that's just one way to monetize a show. And I've got an article called I think the 11 ways to monetize a Podcast, plus my actual results. There's a lot of opportunity out there beyond just, hey, you know, this is brought to you by Casper.

Yeah. When you do the podcast sponsorships, just out of curiosity, how do you go about finding sponsors that are a good fit for your show and sort of mutually coming to an agreement on this is how much it should be. You know, the sponsorship world is really completely new to us because like you said, there's other ways to monetize a podcast, and we have a handful of other ways, just not sponsorship. So that's definitely a realm we're interested in. So, you know, how do you. How do you find Those connections and then kind of, how do you, how do you make a deal with the people that might be sponsors?

So a lot of the best deals have approached me.

Have sought me out. You know, they're probably looking through, you know, itunes, lists of business podcasts and stuff like that, and then they want to know your numbers and then they say, okay, well, what do you think? And it really is the wild, wild west, like, whatever you can negotiate. And I'm probably not the world's best negotiator, but these days a few different services or companies are kind of feeding me deals. So I get some deals through Libsyn, the hosting provider, get some deals through Advertecast. It's kind of a podcast advertising marketplace that I really like. They make it super simple and transparent to kind of create your listing and say, this is the price and you can kind of negotiate from there. I'm like, well, do you want a four episode run, an eight episode run? I think they're doing a lot of cool things in the space. And then there are a couple smaller companies. One is called True Native Media, where they're trying to build kind of these shadow. Maybe Shadow makes it sound shady, but these private.

Podcast networks where it's like, okay, there's no official outward branding that you're part of this network, but they're trying to lump together a bunch of shows, a bunch of hosts that they have relationships with, and then going out and selling those sponsorship spots, selling those packages to larger advertisers.

Oh, that's interesting. So basically they have maybe like a network of 10 podcasts, and then they can go to potential advertisers and say, across 10 podcasts, we have this reach. What are you willing to pay for that reach? Got it. That's really interesting.

Really cool. Yeah, it's like minded. Probably podcast, similar audience, all that fun stuff.

All right. No, I'm getting some ideas because, yeah, we have the marketing down, you know, with like after the podcast, we can, you know, do all sorts of cool advertising. And I was just, I did like a little idea something. You jogged me. I'm like, huh? We're really good at strategic ads. You could totally point our podcast to potential sponsorship companies. Like you said Casper or whoever else. So it's like you just kind of keep seeing us pop up. Maybe you should sponsor.

I should add, it was years before that became a viable business model. And really the inflection point of the show was realizing that it's unlikely to be a business on its own, at least at that point. In time. This is kind of like 2014 a year to 14, 15 months after I started. It's like, okay, it's not likely to become a business on its own. Entrepreneur on fire style, where it's like, okay, you're doing a daily show and you hit this huge audience. So the amplitude and frequency math looks really good for a sponsorship model. But it was realizing, okay, the podcast is content marketing. Like, there's got to be a business behind the business. And so once I kind of figured that out and started treating it as such, that's kind of when the inflection point, that's when the flip kind of switched. So I went from 1,000 email subscribers at that point, this was 60 episodes deep. So more than a year into the show, within three months, it was 3,000. Within six months, it was 6,000. So that was really kind of the turning point where it was off to the races for the show.

Yeah.

So what was the big like? So you had that mental shift. What did you do with the podcast or maybe with the platform to get more emails, subscribers like that?

It was figuring out a way to turn listeners into subscribers. Because as much as I love podcasting and I absolutely do, like, I'm a fanboy.

It'S this weird anonymous medium where you're kind of like, you know, it's me, my $50 mic in the living room now from my son's bedroom, close. And you don't know who's listening. And it's really weird. Unless you're getting blog comments on your show notes or people are tweeting you up, you don't know who's out there listening. So it was figuring out a way to turn listeners into email subscribers. And for me, what that looked like was creating for most episodes, like an episode specific lead magnet, episode specific opt in offer. And it started out with like, hey, a super tactical episode. Like, hey, you're driving, you're at the gym, you're walking the dog. You don't have to take notes. You don't have to listen to this four times. Don't worry, I took the notes for you. You can download them all here. Side hustlenation.com 64 I think was the first episode that it started on.

Nice.

Yeah, that's smart. We actually do something very similar. The person who writes our show notes for us, we actually don't write our show notes anymore. Hey, Patty, I know you're listening. The person who writes our show notes for us, she actually takes notes on all of our episodes, and we do the same thing. We give those notes away to anybody who opts into our list. And it's really, really smart and really effective because like you said, you know, most people are driving or running or at the gym and they need a recap. And that's. That's the best way to do it.

What did you want? Did you have another question on that?

Yeah, I just wanted to kind of just hammer in, like, if. If someone's listening right now, thinking about podcasting. I mean, Nick, you brought up an amazing mind shift. Because that was the exact reason. Because when we started podcasting back in 2010. 10. Yeah, yeah. We had a couple podcasts that was.

Dialing the OGs of the podcast world. Yeah, man, that's before it kind of got. Got big.

Yeah.

So it was. It was just to sort of clarify, we started a podcast in 2010 that I think made it three episodes. And then I think we started a second podcast in about 2011 that I think made it about 13 episodes. And it wasn't until about 24, 15 that we really got serious about podcasting.

But it wasn't serious. It was that. But it was that whole mind shift that you just said there that you had, that it's not the business, but this is content marketing at its finest. It's a great way to create a lot of awareness for your brand and put out great value. But then what are you going to do with that after the fact?

Right.

Yeah. So that's where. That's where this is our number one content generating thing. Now. This is what we love to do, but like you said, it's not the big money maker. It's not the end all, be all.

But yeah, I mean, we've learned that this is our favorite medium to create content in. So we've just kind of tuned out all other mediums. We've really kind of stopped writing as many written blog posts. One comes out maybe every three months or so, but for the most part, our content is just getting on podcasts and interviewing people. Now I'm curious what other sort of monetization tactics. I know you mentioned there's an article with 11 different ways to monetize a podcast. What are some of the other ones that you're leveraging outside of sponsorships?

So one that you could probably take advantage of even if nobody is listening? Actually, a couple you could take advantage of if nobody is listening. One was a friend of mine. He has a sales coaching, sales consulting podcast. So what he'll do is call up his target customer, like sales managers and large organizations. Hey, you're a leader in this space. I'd love to interview you for my podcast while he's recording. Mid roll ad. Hey, this is sponsored by me. My. My service. It's so great. Blah, blah, blah. And even if nobody listens, he's like, had this awesome conversation with one of his direct prospects. So I thought that was kind of an interesting way to go about it. And the other way to go about it is kind of the Tim Ferriss model of turning your podcast content into another product, into tools of titans, for example. Yeah, it's like I'm talking to all these awesome people. I'm going to bundle up that knowledge, the common takeaways, the themes, the tactics that. Into another product.

Yeah.

So we actually have it sitting in front of my desk right now. I've got your book buy buttons in front of me. Is this based on interviews that you had on the show that you kind of figured a unique way to repurpose a lot of that content?

So definitely part of that book comes from podcast content, podcast episodes, interviews, Definitely not the whole thing, but the. The conversations kind of inspired it in a way, because it was like a recurring theme of, like, well, I used this marketplace, or I tapped into this audience of buyers, and that's kind of the thesis of the book. It's like, go where the cash is already flowing. And that was something that came up over and over and over again. It's like, okay, maybe there's something. Maybe there's something to this.

I mean, that's what's fascinating about this whole side hustle industry, if you want to call it that. I'm sure it is now, because I just feel like there's a new marketplace or there's a new opportunity out there almost daily. And I know your book lines out hundreds of them, I think, literally. But even since then, I'm sure probably hundreds more have popped out. I mean, it's pretty wild. And it's something that everyone, even if you are a successful entrepreneur, you can take advantage of in different ways.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, for us, as far as monetization goes, our monetization strategy is actually one that you didn't mention, which is affiliate marketing. You know, we. We promote a lot of affiliate products, so we'll have guests on our show that maybe developed a software, or maybe they've got a course on Facebook ads, or maybe they've got a course on, you know, you name it. We, you know, we'll have them on our podcast, we'll get an affiliate link, and then when that episode goes live, we'll make some sales off of that, but then we take it a step further. And anybody who listened to that episode and went to our Show Notes page, we then retarget them on Facebook back to the offer from that guest. And so that's how we really sort of scale our income from the podcast, is we're retargeting people who listen to episodes with the offer that was mentioned in the episode. If there was an episode, if there was an offer mentioned. We don't have offers in every episode, but if it's available.

Oh, man, the retargeting, that's ninja level stuff.

I like it, dude. That's what we love doing.

That's our happy place, I would say.

That's right.

So the affiliate stuff from either, you know, your own product, like, drive people back to the site, and you've got affiliate relationships, whatever, you know, with products and services that you love. And it works really well from the guest's standpoint. If they've got, like you said, a software product, they just spend, you know, half hour, 45 minutes with you dropping a ton of value. And it's like, hey, by the way, I've got this thing I think your listeners would love. It's a natural fit.

Yeah. And it's cool with the way that we do it, is we're driving them to the Show Notes page, and it's essentially kind of tagging them with a category, more or less, or maybe a specific product. So it's a really simple way to start segmenting your audience outside of the show, where a lot of people, like you said, it's kind of like anonymous. You don't know who's listening. And that's why we chose deliberately to focus on our Show Notes page. And that's why itunes, it's like we struggle a little bit with the rankings there because of our focus.

Yeah, I really like that retargeting thing. Okay, now I got something to play with, too.

I mean, if you want to talk about that more off the. Off the air. You know, we've actually done a couple episodes where we've talked about that strategy, but we're happy to, you know, share exactly how we do it with you.

Nerd out.

Yeah, definitely nerd out on that. But so on the same vein of the podcasting stuff, was there some sort of. I know you mentioned that when you stopped looking at your podcast as the business model and you started looking at it as a marketing piece in your business, that was a big shift for you, but was There any other sort of pivotal moments where you started going, oh, man, this is really starting to take off. Was there any like, any things you did from like a promotion standpoint or, you know, maybe you were featured somewhere or, I don't know, was there any other pivotal moments where you went, wow, that had a big impact on the show?

So the biggest spikes that I've seen have been from podcast guesting, basically appearing on other relevant shows. But that's hard. It's hard to do if you're brand new starting out. So a couple things you need to get right are your itunes optimization. Make sure you're showing up in relevant searches for your keywords. Itunes recently has been cracking down on what they deem as keyword stuffing in your title and author tag. That means, okay, maybe I have to name the show strategically, like, what the show is actually about. So friend hosts like the wedding planning podcast or friend hosts like the pregnancy podcast? It's very keyword driven right in the title. And same with the side hustle show, right, where it's like, if people are looking for side hustles, maybe it'll show up. And I think that goes for your episode titles as well. So I was a guest on a show. This has been a few years ago now, but they did what they're supposed to do. The day the episode airs, they send me an email. Hey, Nick, thanks so much for joining me. Your episode is live today. Here's the link to check it out. And I click on it and it says like 37 Nick Loper. Like, this is awful. Like, who's going to click on this? Even if just, you know, what's in it? What's in it for me? So trying to sexy up your episode titles.

I think I was a reluctant audio adopter because, you know, I probably discovered, no, we're going to go back to Twitter. I feel like I saw some link or saw some. What I thought was an article on Twitter had a compelling sounding title. And then I land on the page and I'm like, wait, what's going on? Oh, it's a podcast pre smartphone. I don't even know how to get this thing onto my device. I'm not gonna sit here and listen to 40 minutes in my browser. So you buried the hook, the good stuff from that title 40 minutes deep into this MP3 file. I was physically upset at the moment, but once I figured out how to download the podcast, like, holy crap, a whole new world of on demand content opened up to me. And I've been a fan ever Since. So I guess I'm grateful for that initial anger producing tweet.

Twitter again. Look at Twitter's making stuff happen again.

I tell you, Twitter's a good platform. It didn't get enough adoption from the people that are in our market, unfortunately.

Speaking of Twitter, I think they just. I just saw they rolled out last week some audio uploading capabilities. I don't know the exacts around it, but maybe there's some new opportunities showing up there soon.

Interesting.

Something to look into.

Yeah, no, but the, you know, that's smart. As far as the podcasting, like the itunes rankings, one thing we've noticed is that the actual description of the podcast does absolutely nothing for you. Like you could pretty much leave the.

Description trying to craft that and, you know, be creative about inserting certain keywords and it's like not even crawled at all.

Yeah, no, it doesn't even seem like itunes is looking at what you write in the description. It's all about your name of your show and your titles. And one of the things we do, what we like to do, is we'll get into Libsyn once a month or so and we'll sort it by our most downloaded episodes, look at the titles and look for common themes. And anybody who listens to our show, they may notice that most of our titles now start with how to X. So you know, how to drive traffic with YouTube ads, how to get more people on webinars using Facebook ads. Almost all of our episodes now are how to X. Because when we dove into Libsyn and looked at all those stats, we noticed our most downloaded episodes all started with how to X. I like it.

Yeah. So are there any things that you look at consistently to try to find some trends, some things that pop up there on your end, like in terms of stats or things like that. So titles, probably the big three for.

Me are podcast downloads, net, new email subscribers, and just traffic to the website.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, because those are good. Because we always have these KPIs in our business and we know those things are going up, hitting the targets, then pretty much everything behind that kind of scales along with it.

One last thing on podcast marketing, and we don't need to make this whole episode about podcasting, but I would venture to guess the way that you guys have discovered new shows is through word of mouth. And the way word of mouth happens is by making something that is too good not to share. And I don't think I hit that standard every week out, but it's like trying to get better Every week, trying to be a friend at a conference, said, I want to be embarrassed by the work I did a year ago, and a year from now, I want to be embarrassed by the work that I'm doing today. So, like, trying to create something that's too good not to share. And there are, you know, dozens of episodes like that on other shows that I've listened to where I, you know, immediately got home from that dog walk and sent it to five people. Like, holy crap, you have to listen to this.

Yeah.

Oh, Joe. And I know that story because I tell Joe to listen to podcasts all the time. I'm like, oh, you got to listen this one. Oh, I got this one. Joe's like, dude, I got this seven that you told me last week to listen to.

Still, I got to walk my dog more.

No, I love that. And I think, you know, I think just looking back at our podcast, this podcast we've been doing for about a year and a half now, and you listen back to our first episodes, and in my mind, they're cringeworthy. Listening back to them. We've just. We've figured out how to get.

How do I word this? We figured out how to dig deeper with our guests and how to get more out of our guests, and we have also figured out exactly what our audience likes. You know, by looking at the data, we can figure out, like, okay, this is the type of topics that people really like. And so we've managed to dig that out, and we've also managed to figure out how to ask better questions. And, you know, you can definitely see the growth in the podcast as a result. So I think, you know, the. The best advice in marketing period is.

Put out good shit and be authentic with it.

Yeah.

Be yourself.

You guys ever had a scrap an episode?

Yes.

Very rare. But, yeah, this one. You're good. Don't worry.

No, we've. Let's see. I've scrapped two episodes ever. This show, specifically, one of the shows that I've scrapped. You know, I'm not going to share the name on air, but is a. A big name that probably most people in the marketing world know. And I did that interview and I went, nope, that was junk. And I just never released it. But, yeah, it's somebody that, if I mentioned his name, he would be very, very offended by the fact that I'm bringing it up. So I'm not going to say I have.

I have a guess. I won't name their name either, but I have a guess.

Same thing. Yeah, could be the same Person who knows very possible.

So do you want to. Let's shift the discussion a little bit over to the side hustle stuff and this. This niche, because I think when you created side Hustle Nation, I think, you know, back at the time you created it, what. What year did you say that was? 2013ish.

Yes. 2013.

Okay. So, you know, back when you did that, a lot of the side hustle stuff was really sort of fresh. You know, like, Uber was just kind of coming up.

Task rabbit.

Task rabbit. You know, I don't. Was Airbnb even a big thing back then? I mean, I don't even remember probably.

Starting Fiverr, but I think you hit.

That vein, like, right at a great time, right when it was kind of starting out. And I think, you know, you're kind of on the forefront of that. I'd never even heard the term side hustle until I saw the name of your podcast. And then that. That term just started to spread. And now in my mind, I still credit you with the term side hustle.

Yeah, I definitely didn't invent it, but, you know, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Yeah, it definitely turned out to be a rising tide. Yeah.

Well, you know, I think the point when I was like, holy moly. It was only just like a year or two ago, I heard Uber with a commercial on the radio, which I didn't even know they had commercials, but it makes sense. And they used, oh, this is like the world's favorite side hustle. And I think I immediately thought of you. And then, you know, or gig hopping. Back in the day, I was like, holy shit, this thing's mainstream now.

Yeah, I mean, it's like the. What is it, 28 immutable laws of marketing or something like that? I don't know if my number's right, but one of the laws of marketing is whoever introduces you to that term is going to own that term in your mind.

Right.

So because we've heard that term side hustle through you, we always associate you as the side hustle guy, so very, very cool.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Let's talk about some side hustles. I know Joe's actually got a few side hustles going on. I don't know if you want to go there first.

I do. I'm curious, Nick, do you. Do you do any yourself, or are you just inundated with so many people telling their cool stories?

Actually, I've been slacking on the side hustle experiment front. So lately, the experiments have mostly revolved around investing. Whereas in the past couple years I was dabbling with some Amazon fba, some E commerce stuff, a little bit of ebay, a little bit of freelancing on a couple different platforms and then building my own freelance brand. But now that we've got a couple kids, that stuff has kind of taken the back burner. And in the meantime, the side Hustle nation stuff has grown. So still have a handful of other other affiliate sites because that was my main background prior to starting it.

And those do okay. But really these days, the bulk of the energy is on the podcast and blog.

Yeah. So I'll tell my quick little story, the thing we're currently doing, my wife and I, but then I want to hear some cool, unique stories from your end to kind of inspire some folks here. So what I'm doing here is we had a Christine McDaniel, she's a good friend of ours, she was on the show here a couple times and she started a whole company around Turo. So the app that's peer to peer car rental. And essentially she built a brand and ended up selling that within just a year or so. But she was renting out, you know, Audi R8s and, you know, very high end luxury cars. So that piqued mine and my wife's interest. Not the fact that we needed to do a side hustle, but the fact like, hey, maybe we can actually rent our cars out so they're not a burden rather than, you know, because they sit at home, because we both work at home. So we figured, okay, well, let's start off with, you know, I have an Acura and a Subaru at home. Cool, let's throw them on there. And then it was pretty dang quick that they're pretty much rented out probably all days of the month other than like four days. And we did the math.

What do you guys do if you need to go someplace?

Well, yeah, that's where it gets a little tricky now. Yeah, before it was really Uber. Uber. Uber's an option. Yeah. Because legitimately I'm five minutes from Matt, his house here. So that's not, you know, that's pretty convenient. So what we ended up doing is we're like, I really want a Tesla Model S. How the heck can I hack my way through Turo to get a Tesla?

Okay, okay.

Just last week, Matt and I drove back, said Tesla from Austin, Texas, and we finally bought a used one, 2014. So it's not brand new, but hey, it's a freaking beautiful Tesla. And we Ran the numbers just last night and we're paying for both of our, you know, the Acura and the Subaru and all but $300 of the Tesla and insurance through just renting this stuff out. I'm just like, oh, okay, cool. So I'm pretty close to basically covering all of our cars.

And so are you going to rent out the Tesla too or that's just like your personal driver?

We are planning on renting it, but at this point, probably limited just because I'm like, oh, after driving it, this car is absolutely amazing. Yeah. But I'm not attached to the car. And that's what I started to see things as more of a tool and you can almost hack your way into what you want in life. That's how we frame it.

It's interesting because of this sort of gig economy side hustle economy that's come up. You can actually start looking at things that you sort of take for granted as legit assets. Now, like you own a car.

Most people say that, okay, that's a depreciating asset. It devalues itself X amount right. When you drive it off the lot, blah, blah, bl. But if you start taking it, looking at it as an asset, almost as if you'd look at real estate. I could buy a house. I could get, you know, my mortgage on this house is 1500 bucks a month. I can rent it out for 2000amonth. I'm cash flowing $500 a month. The gig economy has allowed people to start looking at items other than like their house and these big ticket items as actual assets that can generate cash flow for them.

Yeah, absolutely. I think the gig economy, the sharing economy is a great place to start. Very low barriers to entry, low hanging fruit. I mean, starting with what's sitting in your driveway right now, it's like these underutilized assets in your life. I was curious on the car thing, are you meeting customers at the airport or how does the handoff work?

We started to do that a couple times and then we realized we don't want to be at the airport at 9:30 at night when someone flies in. So my wife, genius, because she's probably gonna listen to this, she's just figured out a way to essentially, we park the car in a secure lot at the airport and we have a combo magnetic lock thing with the key fob in there. Or no, sorry, it's the little detachable part. So someone could use the key and we literally put it in the wheel well and we tell folks, hey, you know you can. We give them a text message. It's like a little scavenger hunt to find the car and to unlock the car. And we've. Everybody have said, this is the best experience. Like, I absolutely love this. I don't have to worry about time frames. Obviously, therein lies the idea of someone stealing your car. But I'm like, you're in a secure lot. You have to literally, like, show a pass to even leave.

And. And they have a combo to get the key.

And you have a combo. And we were like, cool, this works.

The Tesla, on the other hand, combo. So, okay, so, yeah, that's a smart way to do it. I was just wondering about the logistics of that, because if you're driving there, then you got to Uber back, and that eats into your margin and everything. I've actually heard of a guy who started similarly with his car. He was traveling for work, and he's like, okay, my wife doesn't need two cars sitting at home, so let's rent one of them out. And had such success with that. On the same Turo platform, T U R O that he.

Went to lease a couple of extra SUVs. So he added like 500 bucks a month in lease payments to his expenses, which is a little bit stressful, but was making 1,500 bucks renting them out. He's like, I'm still coming out ahead. And I didn't have to like, plunk down a huge down payment to acquire these cars. He's building his own little fleet.

That's exactly what my wife wants to do. Is that.

Is that a side hustle episode that people can listen to?

That is not an episode. His little blurb is just featured in the Buy Buttons book.

Ah, got it, Got it. If you want to I can share the Turo.

Yeah, well, you have to tell the story because it's pretty smart to the. The. The Starbucks tactic.

Jesus. Yeah, There was a. There was a time when we were meeting. This is one of the opportunities or times where we're trying to time it up. A guy was coming back from deployment, San Diego, massive Navy town. And he texted us from the boat. He's like, I'm going to be on this boat for about four hours. Because they're just taking forever. And we're like, dude, we're not gonna sit around for four hours. This is crazy. So we're down the street at a Starbucks. My wife's just like, you know what? I'm just gonna park the car in Starbucks parking lot, go into Starbucks and say, I found a lost Acura key. And say it really loud so all the employees can hear it, not just one. So they can, like, steal the car and no one knows. And it worked perfectly. We just told the Navy guy. We're like, all right, just go into the Starbucks, say you lost your Acura key, and you just happen. And it worked perfect. They're like, oh, sorry, man. Here's your key.

Yeah. So the guy. The guy got into town and just had to, like, ask the guy at Starbucks.

And a little side note, get creative.

That's awesome.

And I have a little car tracker in there, too, so I can know, you know, kind of have a feeling of when they're actually getting in the car, make sure it all checks out fine.

So not like a video tracker.

No, no, no, no.

You could just. You could just. You could just see where it is on a gps and you can see, like, how many miles they've driven.

Pretty much, yeah. But it's okay.

Maybe we should put something together on the Turo thing. We'll keep. Keep in touch about that.

Yeah, it's just really cool, like, hacking our way into stuff that we love.

So just on that same vein, as far as, you know, your show, you obviously interview people who have a wide variety of various side hustles. What are. What are some of the more creative stories you've heard that you kind of went, man, I've never really thought of doing that. Or maybe platforms out there that aren't really well known yet that might be on the rise that are really interesting.

Oh, my gosh. There's so many. I guess continuing along the lines of renting stuff out. A guest of mine wanted to get started in real estate investing. Didn't have the capital needed to buy his first rental house. Goes to his kid's friend's birthday party, and they've got one of these, like, giant inflatable bounce houses there. He's like, that's a form of real estate. Somebody's renting that out right now. So he goes home, finds one of these things used on Craigslist for 800 bucks and starts renting it out for 130, 140 bucks a day. He's like, man, this turns out to pencil out way better than a 1% rule in traditional real estate investing or rental real estate investing. So really like his story. Another one that was kind of inspiring to me was this guy in college, his last semester in college, starts this residential cleaning service. And I was like, are you just, you know, are you the guy who, like, Just love to clean your apartment. He's like, absolutely not. But he's like, I went on Yelp and I found that there were like, all these companies that have been in business oftentimes for decades, and nobody was complaining about the technical quality of their cleaning. Like, nobody was complaining about that. They were complaining about, like, the guy didn't answer my phone. I didn't know when they were coming. They sucked at scheduling, they didn't return my calls. He's like, I could find cleaners. Like, that's not rocket science. I could find people to do the work. I'm just going to own everybody on the business side of things. And so that's what he set out to do. And because he was a student, he said, I got. And he was specifically was using the thumbtack platform, which is like, for, you know, for home services, like, built for a business like this. He's like, I got all the business between 5pm when those companies shut down and 9am when they started out again. He's like. Because I was responding, you know, to the minute that somebody put in a request and still never lifted a mop or dusted a shelf himself. So I was like, I was pretty inspired by that one.

That's cool. And did he actually create that as a larger business or you just kind of keep it at that level?

Yeah. So he's got several crews running. So in two years, he built it to 60 grand a month. And it's just taken a percentage of the cleaning, passing most of it along to the cleaners, and has now people in place to take those calls and run it for him, essentially. And he's on to the next thing. Serial side hustle or serial entrepreneur style. Yeah.

I mean, it's so fascinating that that's what's cool with these side hustles, is that you can get so creative, think out of the box if you kind of allow yourself to do that. Not stay super surface level, but things like that. The Turo and how our friend Christine built a shell of a business around that was able to actually exit that within, I think, like eight or nine months. And it wasn't like massive. I think it was like six figures. But still, it's like, wow, you're leveraging someone else's platform and just doing. Putting your own little spin on it. Hers was luxury cars.

Yeah. And along and along the way, she got to buy all of her dream cars and basically have them paid for by the business. That's it.

Yeah. You see a lot of people doing that with Airbnb. We've got some members of the Side Hustle Nation Facebook community that are doing really well on Rover.com, which is Airbnb, but for dogs, like a dog sitting.

Service.

There are a ton of these. And even to kind of go up the value chain, you could create content around something that you're an expert in and put it up on kindle, up on udemy.com, turn it into a podcast on itunes, and start to sell sponsors. Do the affiliate thing. Another one that I was kind of intrigued by because the math penciled out pretty positively on. This was a woman. She was actually an Amazon seller, but was trying to diversify off of Amazon. She's like, I've leveraged this platform, it's been fine, but I don't want to have all my eggs in the Amazon basket. So she starts this after school program teaching arts and crafts at the elementary school where her son went. And she's like, okay, if I get eight or ten kids times, I forget what she charged, like 140 bucks times this eight week session. And she just shows up for an hour a day to teach this craft class. All of a sudden I'm making a pretty decent hourly wage and having fun playing with kids. If that's something that's in your wheelhouse.

Yeah, I just love it. That's the thing. This gig economy allows folks to really take control of what they love to do. Because I feel like with so many platforms out there, you can find your vein, the thing that you're really passionate about, and maybe you're stuck in a dead end job or even a business of your own that you kind of started to hate or feel like a drag. There's always these opportunities out there to kind of apply your genius.

Yeah, I remember we were actually in downtown San Diego around one of the trafficking conversion summits, and we got in an Uber ride to our. Well, no, what was it? We were driving down there. We got an Airbnb down in San Diego because we didn't want to drive back and forth to our houses. We just wanted to hang out by the event. And so we got an Uber and we were talking to the Uber driver or no, sorry, we drove down there, we were talking to the Airbnb guy. I'm getting my story mixed up. We were talking to the Airbnb guy and his entire business, his entire career, all he does is Uber and Airbnb. He has like three properties for Airbnb and then he Ubers. And that's how he Makes all of his income. And he had like a nice Escalade and his apartment was right downtown in a high rise in San Diego. And he was living a good life doing nothing but Airbnb and Uber. And I was just, I was so impressed by that.

He's doing okay. That's pretty cool.

So what are some. What are, like, I'm trying to think of what are the hotter platforms. I know there's so many of them, but that maybe folks don't quite know about. You know, we talked about things like thumbtack and, you know, obviously Turo is kind of starting to become more mainstream. I think it's still.

Yeah, I was going to say Turo is not usually considered in kind of that first tier, but definitely an up and coming one. You guys mentioned TaskRabbit and of course Uber and Lyft. One of the features that's built into Uber and Lyft, I think is really cool, is like destination mode. So if you're commuting to work or if you, if you're going someplace anyways, you can turn this on and say, I want to pick up a passenger that's going the same way I am.

Right.

And offset my commuting costs or just, you know, have a, have a way to make some money by not having to go too far out of your way. So you can do, I think a couple of those a day on Lyft or maybe six a day on Uber or vice versa. But I think that's a cool. The destination mode is a cool one. That's. That's an option on there. Trying to think of some other interesting.

We could have done that all the way on the drive from Austin to San Diego.

Seriously? I didn't know about that.

Yeah, no, I've never seen Uber or Lyft from the perspective of a driver. I've only seen it from the perspective of a rider.

One that's come up somewhat recently are these companies that will match you up with students in China who want to learn English. So again, not an amazing hourly rate, but if you're just looking for something to get started on the side, you might be looking in the $20 an hour range with companies like VIP Kid or say ABC, where it's like, you know, it's just video chat. And I remember asking the guy, because I met him at a conference, I was like, what? You know, what about the demand side? Like, do you have enough students? Like, if you get this flood of teachers? And he's like, it's China. There's Plenty of students. I was like, okay, fine.

It's funny, my wife actually looked into one of those things. She was thinking about experimenting with it, but she said the one sort of downside about that platform is that you're like working with them at like 4am or something on our west coast time.

Yeah, the time zones are going to be a tricky one, which it could work out to your advantage of like. Well, I'm not going to do it during work hours, but yeah, if it's 4:00am Then maybe find something else.

Is there a good spot for people to find, you know, kind of locate. I'm sure you probably have some resources and if so, that'd be great to spot these opportunities and maybe you know, in one centralized location and see more or less what they do so people can kind of match what their interest is.

I got a decently extensive list@side hustlenation.com I can send you guys the link to it.

It's got a couple hundred of these different platforms, so that might be a good place to start. I try and keep it updated.

That'd be good. Yeah. And I know Buy buttons also has a bunch of stuff in there too. But yeah, I think that's what Matt, you and I were actually trying to do back in the day is to create kind of like an extensive list and point kind of pair people up to well.

So fun fact about our website at Evergreen Profits is our two most popular website or our two most popular articles on our entire website are about side hustles.

That is true.

So we actually, we. My wife, you know, she's experiment with a lot of little side hustles. She's a stay at home mom, so she's, you know, experiment with a bunch of stuff. And so we have an article about a. An app called Gig Walk which I'm sure you're familiar with. You kind of go in and complete little tasks inside of stores and they give you like 15 bucks here and there.

Yeah. Do you guys ever play around with that one, by the way?

Yeah, my wife did. And so we actually wrote an article on our site called My first gigwalk or something and she actually wrote her story of her experience using gigwalk pros and cons and what she liked about it. And for whatever reason, if you search gigwalk on Google, we're like on the front page of Google for that keyword and it gets 20 something thousand searches a month. So that blog post got really popular really quick and we went, that's interesting. People are interested in this side hustle. Type stuff. So we created another article called like 20 Ways to Make money from your iPhone or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that article quickly became our second most popular article on our entire website. We haven't figured out how to monetize those articles yet, but they're very popular.

I'll take a look. There might be. Well, yeah, I don't know if gigwalk has a referral program, but some of your other ones might. I'll take a look at that one, see if I can help you out. One that we've been playing around with, my wife and I, is the Merch by Amazon platform. It's like Amazon's print on demand T shirt service where you just upload your design and write in your bullet points your description and stuff. It becomes searchable on Amazon and they print it, they ship it. Prime eligible. That's been a pretty fun one and very, very passive. Once the designs are uploaded and you're.

Getting some decent results from it as well.

Yeah, we've been in kind of the 100 to $200 a month range. We had $1 500amonth, which I would love to get to consistently. That was last summer during the eclipse. I think we had a handful of eclipse related T shirts and I'm like, well, dang it, next month there's no eclipse.

Yeah.

Oh, nice. So it's a very like seasonal based, like kind of thing. Or that's. So is that game kind of like a volume game? The more shirts you have out there, the more designs you have out there, the more likely you are to make some sales off of it. Or is it like a strategic sort of niche based thing that you do?

Yeah, I've definitely seen people go down the niche bait and say, okay, I'm going to create this brand around yoga T shirts or something like that. But you see a huge influx of products around. Any trending topic. Anytime Trump tweets something, you can bet there's going to be a million shirts on something like that. In fact, our account was approved right around the inauguration. So we had some alternative facts. Shirts that did well. And then it's a tiered program. So once you sell 10 shirts, then you get bumped up to the next tier and then once you sell 25, you get bumped up to the next tier. And so those kind of helped us open up more design slots. And I think we have 500, which we're not using anywhere near the capacity of the account at this point, but it's a pretty fun one to try and come up with creative say. And most of them are just text based designs. Like we're not super artistic to say, like, hey, this is, you know, maybe this is a saying that we'll sell. Yeah.

So what's the split with Amazon on that one?

So you set your own price.

If you punch in like 20 bucks, it'll show you like, okay, you're going to make 625 on this shirt. So you kind of can set your own royalty.

So similar to like what CreateSpace was kind of thing, but for sure. Got it, got it. Cool.

I actually talked to a guy just recently. He said, hey, I've been doing this merch side hustle, but I actually doubled my income from it when I started syndicating my best sellers over to Etsy with a platform called Printful. Which Printful. Because Etsy's not going to do this print on demand stuff. They don't have the capacity for that. But if you hook it up to your Printful account, and I'm still trying to figure out how to do this because it sounded cool, Printful will print the shirt and ship it out to your customer and has a much wider variety of different products. You can put that clever saying on.

Yeah.

That was actually one of the side hustles that we experimented with for a little while is my wife and I set up a Shopify store that was synced to Printful and we sold shirts and mugs and hoodies and stuff like that in the, actually it was in the off road dirt biking niche just because we have, we go to the desert and we used to do that kind of stuff a lot, but haven't lately. But that's a different story for a different day. But it didn't work out for us. We just, we couldn't make it profitable because we were, we were trying to run advertising to our Shopify store and we were never able to get an ROI off of our ad spend off of, you know, selling shirts where our profit margin was five bucks, you know.

Yeah, it makes sense to leverage the Amazon platform.

Oh yeah, Amazon thing is super smart. I love that because if you get some of these keywords I guess ranked in Amazon's algorithm, you're going to show up at the top.

I'm curious actually, Nick, what's your common demographic for folks who actually do the side hustles? Maybe not listeners of your show or readers of your blog, but actually doing the stuff might be the same people actually, but it could be, I don't.

Know, it's a little bit of a self Selecting group because it's, you know, the ones that will go out of their way to email you or to join the community. I've been surprised by it. I kind of thought it would be, you know, younger millennials, like kind of starting their career, maybe 10 years deep into their career, looking for something, kind of like looking around and being like, is this it? You know, looking for the next thing. But it's been really brought, you know, all the way down to, you know, kids who are still in college trying to figure out, okay, I'm staring down the barrel of these massive student loan payments. How can I get a head start on that? All the way up to people who are kind of nearing retirement and looking for the neck, looking for the next thing. You know, maybe they, you know, hopefully they're not in the position of needing the money, but they're like, you know, I guess everybody needs it in a certain way. But like, you know, something that you want to do that's fulfilling and that's interesting and compelling to you.

Yeah, because I could see from all angles. I mean, my mother in law, she rents out a room in her house, they just have this extra big spare room and they're consistently just booked up almost every single day of the month. And they're just like, this is an easy, what, like two grand a month? And all they're doing is just changing the bed sheets maybe once or twice a week. And they just.

Yeah, that's. That's your Airbnb.

That's their Airbnb. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's super surprising too, because the part of San Diego that we live in isn't really the touristy part. So it's, I've always been so fascinated by the fact that we're kind of, you know, people in San Diego would say we're kind of out in the middle of nowhere. But you still rent airbnbs out here.

And it still works consistent.

It's. Yeah. My one, my one friend who kind of, she told me a little bit how it works is like, look, because I was like, who's going to stay here? You know, we're out in suburbia. He's like, well, do you have a hotel in your, in your town? Like, oh, yeah, we got a half a dozen of these chain hotels not too far from us. I was like, I guess there's some demand. The risk, I should add, because there's always downsides to this stuff is local laws and regulations can kind of change. And if you're over leveraged in this business model or you're really relying on that. And then all of a sudden your city, your municipality pulls the rug out from under you. That could be devastating to that business.

Totally.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's a hot button issue in San Diego right now. There's actually a vote on the ballot coming up about short term rentals and the laws around it. So it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out because it could hurt. I mean, we know a lot of people that rent out Airbnb, so it could have a massive impact.

Luckily, we're in the county, so it's outside of the city zone and there's a lot more flexibility. But still. Yeah, it's totally possible. I mean, you see them with these scooters around town, the Bird and razors, and you could be a charger for that and make money.

Yeah. We actually have a friend who every single night he goes around and collects as many of these little bird scooters as he can, charges them overnight. You make five bucks per bird that you charge and then you go and release it. Do you know what the birds.

I was just in Salt Lake and they had the birds scooters and I was like, yeah. What happens when they run out of batteries?

Yeah, yeah, they just, they actually, it's a side hustle now. You can go and be a bird charger and just round them up into the night, charge them in your house and put them back out the next morning. And you make five bucks per bird that you charge once.

Our buddy.

Because the other ones, like the, the lime bikes, the battery powered ones, have like a little solar thing on the back.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I haven't ridden those ones. We see, we have the, we have all that stuff in San Diego, downtown.

Yeah. Oh, they're everywhere. I'm. I'm thinking that's going to be a lot more regulated in the coming future because they're just, just everywhere downtown. People are just leaving them on the sidewalks and leaving them in the entries of doorways and just stupid stuff.

Well, here's an example is our buddy, Dan Ryan. He listens to.

He's our number one fan.

I call him our favorite lurking, you know, listener. But he's a good buddy of ours here in town and he actually has his kids go out there and pretty much create like a plan for Bird every night. He lives in an area where they're all around. So every night after he's done working or after school, they basically tell him, all right, dad, let's go down the street and collect the Birds. This is our pattern, this is what we're gonna do. So it's forcing them to, or it's training them to kind of think strategically and they're figuring out how to balance, you know, how to make money for one in a creative way. So it's this big learning experience for his kids and he's just kind of going for the ride, fascinated with it all. It's money for them. So it's just pretty cool.

So I want to be respectful of your time. I know this is, it's, it's three o' clock now and I know we said we'd wrap up around this time. We. I have one super quick question for you and then we've got two quick wrap up questions and then we'll be done. Is there any side hustle that you've seen become a lot of people's main hustle? Like has there been any sort of like one thing that you've seen recurring? Like, okay, people are able to scale this up and turn it into a main business model.

The biggest entrepreneur maker that I've seen over the last three years is easily Amazon fba.

Both on the retail arbitrage, online arbitrage, wholesale side. We're essentially flipping somebody else's products and also the private label side where it's like, okay, now I'm going to have something created just for me. I'm going to create my own brand. I'm going to import that usually from some Chinese factory and I'm going to sell that on Amazon. That's been far and away, at least people, people doing that are posting the biggest revenue numbers. And of course, you know, it's a physical product so the margins are a little bit thinner than a digital product or affiliate business. But that seems to be still one of the hottest side hustles going.

Love it.

Makes sense. Cool, let's wrap up here. But really quick, are there any books that you kind of refer to often that help you mentally just kind of get further in life that you'd like to recommend Here?

Man.

That'S a good one. I guess one that I read recently that's made an impact is building a story brand where the idea is to position your product or service as the guide in this journey and your customer is the hero. And he's like, this is the framework for every popular movie ever. Luke has Yoda and Obi Wan and he just goes down the list and you're like, oh, now I can see this really common structure. So that's one that comes to mind. One of the first books, that.

First business books that I read was just Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And that kind of solidified the idea of building or buying assets instead of liabilities and investing for cash flow. And he's got his whole cash flow quadrant with the business and investor side on the right hand side versus the employee or the self employed on the other side. And it's like, you know, that was, it's all relatively basic stuff, but you know, when I was 19, like, hey, you know, it's just like nodding along. Yes, yes, yes. And have been trying to implement that ever since.

Cool. Love it.

Yeah, I love Rich Dad, Poor dad, one of my favorite books of all time.

That's the book that got us into this whole game. And Donald Miller's Building a Story brand. I'm actually reading that right now. And definitely a book that everyone telling their story or messaging should read for sure.

It's so good.

Definitely. It's actionable.

So the book, your book is called Buy Buttons and I believe that's available on Amazon. We'll make sure we link that up in the show notes. Your website, side hustlenation.com that's pretty much where you can find your content and all of your podcast stuff. Is there anywhere else you want to send people after listening to this show?

You bet. Well, I'll send you guys that link to the giant Make Extra money list post. Also, if you hit Sidehustlenation.com ideas, constantly updated laundry list of different things you can do to make extra money that, you know, no opt in required. Just, you know, hopefully gets the creative juices flowing over there. And of course, we'd love to have you tune into the Side Hustle show too.

Love it on Nick. Well, thank you, man. We'll be in touch and offer stands that we can help you out with some of that retargeting stuff too, because you can make some magic happen there. It's good stuff. Thanks, man. And yeah, we'll chat soon.

All right, catch up soon. All right, bye.

Bye. All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Cool free training that we give out at evergreenprofits. Com. So that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.