Nicole Holland - How To Get Yourself On Any Podcast (No Matter How Big)

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flow chart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear.

Good day to you, sir.

Can you stop meditating so we can record this intro?

Dude, I'm just like starting my day.

You're starting your day? Oh, yeah. It's 7:00am when this comes out. 7:00am and so I just assume everybody listening at 7:00am for them as well.

You awake, everybody in the house?

Should we just skip the intro so they can sleep?

Let's just get into it. No, I'm just kidding. We can't do that. We like to talk. We do like to talk, but we have a podcast.

Yeah, that's very true.

Hopefully people like to hear us talk. I think you do if you.

I mean, people keep downloading it, so it must be doing something right to be working.

Well, we have another podcast veteran on the show with us today.

Yes.

And it's not you or I. Nope. It's actually a. A gal with purple hair.

It's very true.

Yeah. We should have asked her what brought on the purple hair. It's part of her branding.

Yeah, I'm sure that would be her answer. It's part of her branding.

That's right. I wonder what started the branding. That's what I'm so curious about. Maybe we'll do a follow up podcast just on her hair.

Okay.

I don't know. In her cats.

And her cats?

Her cats make appearances in the video footage version of this. Her name is Nicole Holland and she's a cool cat. Wow. Good way to purple cat.

No, no, but we hung out with her when we were in Orlando for New Media Summit. No, not new media.

Wrong.

But she has been to New Media Summit. I think I brought it up to her.

Yes. She knows Steve Ulsher and the crew over there.

We hung out with her at podcast movement in Orlando.

That is.

We go to so many events that it's just like I can't keep them straight in my head anymore.

It's sad reality.

It is.

It's actually a fun reality. So I wouldn't trade it for anything. But yes, we're hanging out with her there. We had. Right before she had to head out to a flight or something. I think we had a buffet with her.

We did.

And it was a fun buffet.

It was a fun fay. Fun buffet.

What are you trying to say? I don't know. Yeah, I get you. I get you.

You can always tell, like when we record intros at the very end of the day because we just stop making sense home.

I'm still meditating. Oh, yeah, 7:00am no, no, it was a. It was a fun thing out in Orlando. Jesus Christ. All right, so Nicole. Yeah, she. I swear to God, she's going to bring out some good content here that we aren't bringing to you right now. Hopefully, you're chuckling along.

We're agitating, Joe.

We're educating what we do now. So Nicole is. We met her a couple of years ago at an event in San Diego, and basically since then, we've stayed in contact. And she is like the ultra connector, Uber connector. She helps folks get onto podcasts. That's her specialty. And she has just a million strategies around that. So a lot of folks don't really understand what goes into booking for a show. You know, for you, you listening? If you were to go on another podcast, she has, like, a crazy process. She actually outlines six steps, and she'll go in great detail.

In those steps, she broke down how you and I can get on the Joe Rogan podcast.

That is true.

She literally told us the process to.

Get on that show, and she doesn't even know him, so is that powerful?

Yeah. So by the end of listening to this show, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to get yourself booked on some shows.

And also, if you actually do know Joe Rogan, we wouldn't mind an intro.

Yeah, that'd be great as well.

You could shortcut this whole, like, process that. Nicole. I'm just kidding.

No, but she. We. We. We cover how to get on shows, even if they're big shows that you think they're out of reach, we cover how to get the. Like, when you're on a show. How. How do you get those listeners back to your website so you can put them on a list? She's going to give us some tactics there.

Well, we talk about how we actually have been tracking our podcast guesting. We might have mentioned it before, and this is definitely very techy. That's not required. But it proves how effective podcast guesting is. It's freaking valuable, man. We're making about $1,000 per appearance, and they're not all created equal, so it's an average. And you might remember Steve Olsher was actually on the podcast last year sometime, and he dove deep into his strategy of actually making money with. So I would say, like, after you're done with this one, I would say go and check out Steve's. Yeah, they're. They're like a perfect combo pair. And Steve's also a Great supporter of this podcast. Damn right he is. He's the bala. But yeah, like Nicole just like blew our mind because we go on a lot of shows. Luckily, a lot of folks approach us for it. So it's not as much outreach. But doing outreach, that is something we're doing because now we realize, hey, this thing makes a lot of money.

Yeah, we get into that in the episode. We'll like, yeah. We break it down.

So we're motivated by this.

Now we're like, damn, yeah, no, some ninja stuff. I. We had a lot of fun recording this.

It was just a great, awesome chat. You're gonna really, really enjoy this one. It's a fun chat, entertaining, but also you're going to figure out how to get on just a ton of podcasts if you want to. And after listening to this, you're probably going to want to because we're going to talk about how power fail.

It's so easy to just talk.

Yeah, I have notes for this.

Of course we do.

Yeah.

Do you want to tell them about it?

You want me to tell them?

Tell them about it.

Okay, so if you go to hustleandflowchart.com comp c o m P you can get the notes for this. We actually have somebody listening and taking notes on every single episode. So her six step process that she's going to break down, going to have that all in notes. The process for getting people to go from that show they listen to, to your website and opt in, we're taking notes on that. So you're going to have that process as well. The reasons why you should be going on podcasts, we're going to have notes for you on that. We take notes on all of it.

And if you're going to. I don't know if the purple hair or the cats fall into the notes.

But you never know. You never know.

You got to get them to check it out and verify.

We might put some Easter eggs in there.

So. Hustleandfluchart.com computer c o m p that's also on flowchart.com comp be quick. They go away in two weeks. So whenever this thing goes live, basically just count two weeks out. Yeah, it's gone by then, so just don't lag.

Yeah. And also Nicole, she made a special link for listeners. This podcast at the nicole holland.com hustle. She's putting together some goodies there. She's actually talking about how to get on shows and she's, she's putting together some, some cool additional resources for you, after listening to this episode, she'll do a better job of explaining what's going to be at that URL later in this episode. But it's at the Nicole holland.com hustle.

And it's all very meta. So the way that she's giving you that link in this episode, you'll learn a lot in the process. It's really cool.

Yes.

And then lastly, before we head to the show, we are proudly supported by our buddies over there at Intercom.

Yes.

And. And Matt and I are going to try something new here. All right. This is like. This goes back to theater days.

Theater. Joe. Joe. There is no room for idle chat in marketing.

No room.

So if email is your only moneymaker, make room for something new.

I don't want just one money maker, Intercom. Oh, I want that, though. That's good. Okay, so Intercom, it's actually the only business messenger that starts with real time chat.

Say what?

Real time. That's. That's right. And then it keeps growing your business with the conversational bleep blops. The bops, I think that's what you dubbed them. So it's actually conversational bots that guide you with product tours. So it actually guides you through this whole thing.

Take Intercom Customer unity. In just 12 months, they converted 45% more visitors through Intercom's messenger.

That's a lot of bleep blops.

45% more.

That's a lot of money too, actually. Yeah. So you probably want to make room for a brand new. A new revenue channel. So if you go to intercom.com marketing, that's intercom.com marketing. Go grab Intercom. I like this back and forth. This is new. This is new. That's why it's theater. It's like us, you know?

Yeah.

It says this line. Joe says this line, Matt said. Yeah. So.

But. No, but Intercom is a legit tool and, you know, you probably actually shouldn't use it. The only people that I think should use it are the ones that are interested in making more money from their business.

So just us. We should hoard all the cash online and all funnel over all the conversations to us using Intercom. Okay. I guess we could share it with our cool audience here, too.

Yes. So go grab Intercom. You're going to want it. Intercom.com marketing. If you have a business, you're going to need it, so just do it.

You going to love it. All right, let's get over there. To Nicole and her purple hair and cats. Nicole, welcome to the show.

Yo. Thank you, thank you.

Yeah.

Great to be here.

It's been a while.

Hey, Matt. Thank you.

Hey.

This is one of those rare video podcasts we do, so we need to do more of these. Yeah, they're just more fun.

It's always interesting because we have, like, such a sort of consistent flow to the beginning of the podcast. It's always me doing the tech stuff and hitting record and getting it all prepped, and then Joe always kicks off the conversation. So, like, it's usually just Joe and our guest talking for like a minute, and then I jump in. But you forced me to jump in early.

I like it. Called them out.

Exciting.

You're pattern interrupting me here.

Good. Do more of that. Well, you were just. Yeah. What? We've spent like, the, what, 30 minutes talking before this? I mean, it's like, we should probably record some of this stuff. This shit's good. And we were talking about how you haven't. What, guest Podcast guest two years? Is that what it was?

No, no. But I would say this is the second interview I'm doing in probably about a year.

Oh, yeah.

Because I took a break. It's funny because, like, that's my thing, right. Podcast guesting is my thing that I teach and I do serve people with and all that, but I just needed a break, and so I just stopped. Or I had a lot of things that were kind of on the books that I just said, nope, nope, let's postpone this. Also, my. Like, I just did a big shift in my own podcast and started a new podcast. And I just. As it was bubbling up, I was like, I just need a break from doing the same old thing. And so I kind of shut everything down, stopped recording my own show and stopped guesting and all the things until now.

So probably smart until you figure out what the business looks like, you know, or, like, where your focus, where your energy is best applied. Because.

Can I be honest?

Yeah.

Okay, cool. So, like, what I really, really. The essence of what I really want the Nicole Holland show to be is what you guys have now. I don't have a co host, right. So it's like I just want to hang out with my friends and shoot the shit about cool stuff in business. And so that's where it's pivoting to. And I'm like, I'm not doing what I've been doing because it was just kind of like I got on that path and then I continued and I tried tweaking it and never really shifted the way I expected. And so I recognized I just need to have a new show and. Cause I love doing the interviews, right? I really love doing the interviews. I really love creating content for business owners to learn from other successful business owners, stuff like that. So I was like, okay, well, why don't I launch a new show? And so I am like, I have fascinating founders. And that is more of that interview about the founder's journey. But then the Nicole Holland show. Now I aspire to be, like, on Flowchart podcast, but it's just like, yeah, just less structured and more hanging out with friends and just sharing awesome stuff.

I feel like that's just how we run our entire business. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's bad. But, yeah, you're right. Thank you.

I mean, our whole business is really our show. We're figuring it out as we go.

Along, and I love it. And you're so transparent about it, and it's like, yeah, well, that was good. That was bad, whatever. And that's when I am who I am, when I'm fully, like, just showing up as me. That's me. And so even though I talk about showing up as you, and the more you. You can be, the better and all that, and I believe that there's still an element of. Of, like, filling a role. And I guess that role had outgrown. I had outgrown that role a long time ago and just couldn't figure out how to.

How to transition. So I just stopped. It's been a great year. It's been. Yeah, it's been. I think I stopped recording everything. So that's what I'd say. I would say we're recording now in October, so since April, I really haven't done, like, any interviews. Any on either side. And then in the. In the last weeks, in the last week or so, I think I've recorded, like, five for summits and lives and all the things.

It's so. And let's. And this is a great opportunity to have so many of these opportunities out there. But we're noticing what, like, if you look at our calendars right now, we have probably three guesting appearances in something, either podcasting or summits. And it's like every day we get invited to something. So now our issue is how do we schedule our. Making sure we're spreading enough time out there where that's not the only thing we're ever doing, even though it's amazing marketing and leads. Like, we're. We'll get into this in more detail, but we're actually been tracking our guesting on other shows to the revenue we're making. And it's. I'll just say it's fucking profitable. So it's really good. Everyone should do it, but we'll dog ear that. But, yeah, like, you can quickly get out of hand if you don't have a solid direction after that show. So it's like, make sure you have a solid, like, Legion business and then tack on that kind of stuff to the top, or else you might just be losing your mind doing that on time for sure.

Let's go backwards a little bit and talk about your story. So how did you get into what you're doing now? So, you know, how did you get into the podcasting world and connecting people with podcasters? And what were you doing before this? And let's hear the whole story.

All right. Well, in a nutshell, I think I've always been a connector. I've always looked.

It's innate. It's less of, like, connector is kind of secondary. I've always been since birth, since very early childhood, there's always been evidence of me figuring out what the problem somebody has is and helping them not have that problem anymore. And I just somehow, I think, like, you guys, like your strategists, I think it's just like an innate gift that it's like, okay, here's what you don't want, here's what you do want. Let's just make that happen. Pretty simple. And a lot of people, I think, make it really complicated, and it never has to be complicated. So for me, once I started podcasting, one of the things I was hearing from people was like, they were not satisfied with their guests or they weren't getting the people they wanted on the show. I was hearing a lot of complaints, and I was like, oh, well, I've got great guests. I've got Rolodex of amazing people. Because what I did was I started before I was podcasting. I was doing. I did a Summit. So in 2015, I launched a summit called the Business Building Rockstar Summit, where I tapped into 30 experts of different marketing strategies to teach the basics of, like, hey, if somebody wants to start leveraging Twitter, how do they do that? If they want to start leveraging podcasts, how do they do that? And our mutual friend John Lee Dumas was my guest. And after the interview, he's like, Nicole, he. You're really good at this. And summits are a lot more difficult to do than podcasts. You should really think about having a Podcast. And that's kind of how I got into podcasting. But backing up even further, how I got into this Internet space was really.

Fluky, I guess.

I mean, because you didn't come from this background.

I know that I did not. I will say I came from a marketing background. So my first, first love was marketing. I worked in professional sports entertainment for a bit. Guerrilla marketing was like something I just loved. I loved getting creative and again, using that strategic mind to say, okay, this is what the desired outcome by this entity is and how can we make that happen? And so I've always loved marketing. And I had a corporate training firm in the past and so on, and I was a life coach. And so I've had a lot of different experiences, experiences in life, but the. The most recent experience prior to starting my online business was I was a correctional officer. And it was killing me. And I just, at finally, I just to, you know, wrap up a really long story, I just decided. I was like, what am I going to do? Am I going to honor myself and actually stop doing this thing that is just tearing me apart physically, emotionally, spiritually that is literally killing me and step away from it? Or am I not? Am I going to stay stuck in this tunnel and feel like I have to do it? And I decided to stop, but I had no exit strategy. I had no plan for the next thing.

I had not planned properly. And it was just like, huh.

I'm done. And I quit. And then I was like, I gotta figure out how to make money pretty fast.

Back against the wall is the perfect time to figure.

Exactly. I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I would sooner flip burgers at McDonald's than go in another day into the detention center and be a part of what I was living at that time. And. And with that knowing, I just. I did a quit. And I was like, all right, now let's figure this out. How do you build a website? Learned how to build a website. Build a website. How do you. Whatever, right? I can't remember the different steps, but I did. I knew I needed to invest also, and I invested right away in High Ticket, a High Ticket program that promised all these results and blah, blah, blah. And very quickly, I determined that that was not working for me.

Did you Google how to make money online?

No, I didn't. I didn't even know it was a possibility. Like, this is how. Again, I was a correctional officer, guys. So I was dealing with rapists and murderers prior to that. I was doing crisis support and intervention, protect, doing Child protection. Like, I was working with police. So for about a decade before I started this online thing, I was a ghost. I didn't use the Internet. I didn't watch tv. I didn't. I knew nothing about what was, like, happening in the world. I just needed to protect myself. Right.

Rightly so.

So going in, I was like, I don't even know what to do. I just. I just had faith. I figured out in summits, I had been a part. I had attended a summit because when I. When I first recognized I need to figure out how to make money not having to come to work, I used to be a coach. I can be a coach again. I looked. I googled something about coaching, got on somebody's list who sent me to a summit. And I was like, this is amazing. All these authors, speakers, coaches. Marisa Murgatroyd Summit, actually, I think you know Marisa as well. And I was like, this is amazing. And this is everything I need to know. And then from there, that's where I was like, yes, I will buy your $18,000 program because you're promising to teach me. Absolutely. I will fly across the country. Yes. So that's how it started. And then I very quickly realized that most marketing is bullshit and thought, now how can I get my needs met and provide value to others that I was seeing kind of being taken advantage of as I deemed it and decided I liked what Marisa did. I also learned how to build a website through Jan Koch. He did a WP summit. I don't know if you know Jan or not, but he had this thing, and I was like, this is amazing. And it turned me on to people like Nick Loper, John Corcoran, and all these different people that I learned so much from over the years. So I thought, I want to do that. So that's what I did.

It's a good list builder, too. It's a good way to get your brand and connections list. I mean, it's a pretty damn good way to start business, I would say.

It's how things started for me. It's how I got my credibility. I went for top people that I could find. I went for the people who I was not looking at the bottom of the barrel. I'm like, I'm too old for that. I want to connect with. Even though I am new to this online space, I'm not new to life. And I know that I will go above and beyond to make sure their desires get met. And my desire is for them to give me that opportunity to do It. And so that's how I started my Internet business, really. So there's about a five month kind of learning of everything not to do and firing me up and infuriating me to figure out this is what I want to do. And so everything else has been really organic and natural. And like I said, talking with John and him saying, like, you should start a podcast, I was like, all right, this guy knows some things I don't. And it's just been a wild ride since.

John and Jeremy is how we met you actually back in San Diego.

John Corcoran.

Yes, yes. Yeah, John Corcoran. And that was at the rise.

25.

25. I was like, 26. Oh.

So that was the party. Is that where we first met? The party from John and Jeremy last year and two years ago, TNC 20. 2018.

Yeah, I think it was a couple years ago at the. Yeah, yes.

That's where we met.

That's right.

Yeah. We had a. We. We met a ton of people at that party. So, yeah, if you ever get a chance to go to that party, anyone.

That was actually the first time we met John Corcoran, too.

That was.

We.

That was my thing, too.

I had interviewed him, right. Like, he actually really was such. Such a key Support in my 2015 summit. The way I got his attention and got his support was I realized when I decided I wanted to have a summit.

I was like, okay, this is the person who I want to know. So I was on a list from Nick Loper. They did a little, you know, connecting with. That's. That was John's thing back in the day, connect with influencers. He had a little digital program on that. So Nick did this. I didn't know what any of this was at the time, by the way. Right. I was just a. I was just a person going through funnels, just like probably most people listening are. And.

And one thing led to another. So I went to his webinar and I was like, I don't need that. Right. I don't need that program. But he had an upgraded version of the program that got you a 30 minute phone call with him. And I was like, that's what I want. Couldn't care less about the program, but I want to get on the phone with this guy. Here you go. Take my money.

Smart, smart.

So, yeah. And so I wound up chatting with John. And, you know, we laugh about it because I. I said. He said, oh, how was the program going? Do you have any questions? Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, honestly, I don't mean to be offensive, but I haven't even gone through your program. I just wanted to talk to you. So smart.

I mean, being the connector you are, you're like, ooh, I found my in.

Yeah. Because I believe. I know we have to invest. Like, we. Whether it's time or money or energy or whatever it is, like, nothing's. Nothing's just coming to you because you exist and breathe.

Right? Right.

To actually be a value and do something. And so they want. He wanted money. I wanted to talk to him. Bob's your uncle. So I got on the phone and he. I said, like, I'm going to do this summit and I would like you to come on and be a guest to talk about how to connect with influencers, how to leverage connections to build your business. And we chatted for a while and I mean, I was. He had no idea who I was. And it was a 20 minute call or 30 minute call that turned into 45 minutes before he said, who else do you want? Like, I know a lot of people. Who do you want to talk to? What do you want to talk about? And let me make some introductions. And he did. And it was like one thing after another, and it was amazing. And so that was, I believe.

May or June of 2015. And I interviewed him multiple times since then. We've talked multiple times since then. We've become friends. And it wasn't until that event that our calendars lined up. And I actually did not fly out to TNC for tnc. I only flew out to San Diego for one night to meet John Gorkren.

No kidding. So you met him the same night. How cool is that?

Yes. And. And like now it's like, oh, of course I'm going to be at tnc. And like, so much magic happened there. Right. And it's just, it's wild when, when you just, like, I don't know, you let things flow. Right. Don't try and like, how can I. How can I get Right. You guys were talking about, on a recent episode, you were talking about seagulls. It's like, not, don't be a seagull. It's not about how much you can take away. It's like, just be there and be of service and give what other people want and you get so much back.

Yeah. Now was your initial business, so you did the summit. And then after the summit was the sort of next evolution, the connection game, you know, making connections for podcasters to podcast guests and that kind of thing. So how did that evolve into that.

Oh, my God, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Again, I was a correctional officer, Right. I didn't know the first thing about online business. I had no business model. I had been a coach in the past, like, in real human contact, like with local people. Yeah. And so, you know, everything was offline that I had done, and it had been a long time since. Even so, I didn't know what I was doing. I just. I had this list and offered people coaching. Right. So originally, when I started, before I did the summit, I was like, okay, I can coach people around general life coaching and help them. And I did, and I had a few clients, and then I was like, well, now, you know, I'm the. I'm the person who can curate the content. I don't know about these things, but I found the people that do. And so I was a content curator, and I could put that out and add value that way. And then beyond that, I was like, well, I'm a coach, so. And I love marketing, and now I know who to connect people with and what to connect them to. So I can take my strategic brain and help people figure out how to get their desires met in their business by leveraging my resources. That didn't go very well because I didn't, like, it just was not well planned out. I just didn't have the understanding that I needed. And the people that I was hiring and I was going, oh, you've got a program that's going to help me get this. Okay, here you go. That was a dud. Here you go. Nope, that was a dud. And I was like, all right. I mean, I had hired coaches and stuff, and I just found a lot of folks.

It's funny, I just did a. Recorded an interview earlier today for a summit, and one of the questions the guy asked me about podcast guesting, he said, now, have you done this for yourself and your business? And I'm like, yes, yes.

Yes, this has been proven. That's why I'm. And it's amazing to me how many people don't. They just regurgitate stuff. And when you don't know that, it's easy to fall victim to that. And so I was doing that a lot, and I was hiring coaches and spending money on programs and all of the things. And then I'd started the podcast, and it was going well in terms of building relationships, but it wasn't making me any money. I had no idea how to do that. And so connecting people with, like, connecting great guests with great Hosts. That was easy. And I just did that because I liked it and it was easy and it just built relationships.

Didn't feel like work to you?

Did not feel like work. How could I ever, ever charge for that? Like, no, this isn't something I'm going to sell. This is something. It's just easy. It's just who I am. And so from there, at the same time, I was sitting there trying to sell my coaching packages, which people were not buying, and I was just doing all the things and getting broker and broker. And I had been asked if I would, like, book people on podcasts, and I kept saying no because I didn't like what I was seeing from podcast booking people. I had them all marked as spam in my inbox because I got pitched all the time. And I was like, this makes me feel sick. And I had, at first, when I was first a podcaster, I had said yes to a few because I was like, oh, my gosh, this person wants to be on my show. I'm so honored. This is amazing. And then they'd show up like they have no idea who I am, what my audience cares about. It was like they were just looking to sell their stuff. And so I was like, oh, I don't like that at all. So I kept saying no. And then finally. But I was reaching out to business owners of. Of resources that I found fascinating and helpful, and I wanted to share. And so I had a guy by the name of Calvin Corelli. He's the founder of a tool called Simplero. I had him on the show because I was like, I really want to highlight and feature you to my audience, which was significant. I had a lot of followers that were in the entrepreneur space and the brand new entrepreneur space.

And so I wasn't making money, but I had a good following. And so he had a tool that solved a problem, and I had him on the show. And then afterwards I said, I'd love to introduce you to some more hosts because I love someplero. I think it's amazing. And would you be interested? And he's like, yeah, this was fun. This was easy. I liked having a conversation. And sure, I'll do that again. Can you, can you take care of that for me? And I was like, well, I can make introductions for you. And he's like, no, can you just take care of it? Like just. Can you just schedule it? Because I've got things to do. And I was like, well, no, but I can send you. I can refer you to people who can. And Again, like, I'm sitting here saying that, and I'm thinking, I don't believe in that. It's. It bothers me, those people. And then he said, no, no, that's okay. Then, like, you're a user. You know my product, you like my product, and it was a good time with you. So if you wanted to, like, you know, I'm happy to pay you to do it, but I don't want to do it myself. And that's when I went, wait a minute, hang on. And so I said, okay, wait a minute. You're telling me that there's. That. That's valuable to you. You would pay for that? And I said, okay, give me till tomorrow. I'm gonna just think about it and sleep on it. And I went to Google and spent all night, like, researching and looking at what people were charging and what was going on in the market and all the things. And then I thought, well, if I'm gonna build a system to do this for one person, because I'm a systems person.

Why not see if anybody else wants it? So I just sent an email, not to my. Not to my marketing list, but just to my personal colleagues and, like, guests who'd been on the show, stuff like that. And I said something like, hey, I'm not sure if this is of interest to you, but if you have anybody that's a client or anybody you know, who might like to be on podcasts, I'm going to start helping people do that. And I got all these emails, and that literally filled my. Like, I was. I was tapped out all of 2017. Like, I never had to market it. I would talk about it, but, like, I would. My. My conversion system was not good because, like, people were constantly trying to get information and wanting to hire me. And, like, I didn't follow up with them because I'm like, I've got too many clients.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's how it. That's kind of how it started.

I mean, I love the whole organicness of everything you do, and I feel like that's kind of like how I've always rolled. And then Matt's been like, the very system y. So that's where we can, you know, combine efforts. That's what has produced this show, you know, And I love that you have your cat there, because we. We were talking about your cat in Florida when you're a podcast movement.

Yeah, I don't have doors here at this cottage, so they just decide they're gonna go where they wanna go.

Yeah, well, let's I mean, let's get into. Because we've chatted a lot about podcast guesting on our show. And, you know, we talk about just the power of the medium right now, and it is riding a wave. Like, it's definitely, like, it's. You're in the floor flow right now. Yeah. Going up. However a flow can go up. But. Yeah, but it's perfect timing. So you don't need a show. But. And you don't really even need the connections because there's people like you out there and you are like. It's actually great because the two other interviews we are doing today literally come from you. But let's get into that from your perspective, the power of getting on other shows and kind of what that looks like and how folks here can.

Before you do, I want to. I want to, like, sort of hammer in a point, too, because I was. I was on a summit this morning, too, and I was talking about this with the person I was on the summit with. So we use a tool called Wicked Reports to track the effectiveness of our various marketing channels. Right. And I was looking in Wicked Reports fairly recently because I wanted to find out how effective we've been at being on podcasts. Well, it turns out us going on other people's podcasts has been the single most profitable thing we've done. Almost all of the referrals that have led to our higher ticket sales, and I'm talking, you know, $2,000 plus sales have come from people who have heard us on other podcasts. So it, you know, the tracking and the numbers have shown that as far as leads and as far as sales go, nothing has beat going on other podcasts and summits. I kind of lumped the two together. But going on podcasts and summits have been the biggest sort of catalyst to our growth over the last two or three years. So I just want to preface by saying that from our experience, how powerful going on shows are, but I'm sure you have a lot to add to that, for sure.

Well, I really appreciate you saying that. And I want to make a really clear distinction, because most people who get out there on shows do not have the results that you do. The reason that you're having the results that you're having is because of your brains and because of what you do, because you have the tracking and the processes and because you're strategist and because you know all of these things, most people don't. And so what happens is most people want to get out there expecting. I used this analogy earlier today in an interview. It's like people expect graduate level results with a kindergarten education.

And you cannot get those results if you don't have the support behind you and the understanding of nuance and the systems in place and all of that. So I believe podcast guesting is absolutely the number one most lucrative thing you can tap into podcasts in general. But there's so much more opportunity with podcast guesting, because when you have a podcast like I'm a guest here right now, you guys are the ones who have to plan this out. You've got to edit it, you've got to have the show notes done, you got to do all of the things, you know, it's your producing it. All I'm doing is hanging out for an hour and talking about stuff that I already know about. So if I want to, I can share about it. That would be the right thing to do. But even if I don't share about it, even if I'm a shitty guest, I mean, not a shitty guest on the show, but if I'm a shitty guest in terms of like giving you value for, for this opportunity, you're still producing and putting out my content to your audience. That's huge. And that is off, like, I'm sure many of them amazing potential clients for me.

Yeah.

So it's like you can, as a podcast guest, you do very little work and you have opportunity for amazing gains. And you guys talk about this all the time, about the different opportunities of, you know, partnerships. And I believe Jason, you know, love Jason, I believe you guys will hopefully be a, an affiliate partner with them.

I actually had the discussion with him.

I actually asked him and he said to talk to you too.

Which is funny because I, because this is one of the things that, you know, I set up for my clients. It's based on what their goals are. So the number one thing, like I have a system I call interviews that convert and when you follow all six steps, you are guaranteed conversion. The problem is most people do not follow all six steps. It is time consuming, energy consuming. It's a lot of work, but it doesn't have to be right. You can pay people like me for that. But, but there, but all these things have to get done. Just like building any successful business. If you're, if you don't do all the things, you don't have the results that the others enjoy. So the first thing is you have to know what your desired goal is, your desired outcome for your podcast guesting opportunities. This is.

This can be multiple goals. So Taking Jason for an example, because we've already. We've already broken through that. I'll just give this one goal, not the rest of their goals, but this one goal of looking at how can we. They want to make more money, get more. Get more customers. So in that acquiring customers, we want to. I wanted to look for potential affiliate partners that are all that already have the right audience for them to.

And so if you're looking for your business, if you want to leverage affiliate marketing, then you need to know that that is the goal. That's the main goal. There can be other little goals, but it's like, okay, we're going to go and focus on finding podcasts that are going to help us with our affiliate marketing. Okay, we want to. We have a book coming out and pre launch, we want to line up our list for pre sale or whatever the case is. Or, you know, okay, I want to be a speaker on certain stages. So I'm going to go and find the opportunities to be on a podcast where the bookers are my audience, whatever the case is. Right. So you've got to know, first of all, what is that goal? And it's not this widespread. Well, I want to make money. I want more people on my list. That's all fine and well, but that's general. You want to get as specific as possible, and you can have multiple verticals in that. The second thing is, once you know what your goal is, then as I said, you find the right audience. So that audience can be the host, that audience can be the listeners. That audience is whoever you need to get that yes from to move forward, and that you could have five different yeses that you need to get in order to get to the next step. But it's always, you have to focus on getting the right audience to say yes in order to get to the next step. The third part of this is the right rapport. Just because you get a yes from a host to go on a show does not mean they're going to position you properly. So I'll take an example of a former client of mine who, you know and use John Lee Dumas as an example. He's got this big show. He's got like millions of listeners and a really, really active audience of people who take action when he tells them to. Right, right when he tells them to. That's the distinction. There's a lot of people that will pay thousands of dollars to get on his podcast so that they can get in front of his audience, but they are not. They don't have the rapport with him or the trust, he's just giving them a platform. But when he has somebody who he has a personal relationship with and he has real rapport with and there's an incentive for him to position that person, he does. And that's where his listeners go bonkers and buy everything. So if you don't have the right rapport with a host, you're going to fall short on achieving your goals.

Totally. We agree.

And it's not just a host, it's the audience in general.

Right.

Number four is the right message. So you need to make sure that you're going on shows that are aligned with your message.

Just because a show is a great show, just because you like them or just because they have attributes that you want to capitalize on does not mean that it's going to be a high conversion for you. Your message has to be in alignment with what the host's message is and with what the audience is tuning in for. It doesn't matter how amazing you are, if you're getting in front of the right audience but you're saying the wrong things or your messaging is is mixed up, the conversion is going to take a hit. The right offer. This is always going to be, this always should be a logical and easy next step for your audience to take with you. Most podcast listeners, as we know, they're not sitting around waiting to type an email address or a URL into a browser to go check out this thing you're telling them about. So you want to make it really easy for them to lean in and say yes. And there's a lot of different strategies and ideas that I can share about that if you wanted to go deeper into that. But that offer, sure. And that offer has to be from their perspective. This is something I see over and over and over again from experts who talk about, hey, we've got this like massive valuable thing and our customers love this. Or, you know, we're going to give away this, we're going to do that for the audience. And it's like, well, that's great from your perspective and that's great for your clients. But these are people who have already developed that know like trust factor with you and are already paying you to give them that. You are in front of a completely brand new audience and if you want them to convert, you have to give them something to say yes to that they deem valuable. More valuable than taking the time to go and opt in.

And then the sixth thing is the right follow up and so having those systems and sequences in place.

Knowing how you're going to take them from that first touch to the next, to the next, to the next, all of that is part of the follow up. And additionally that sharing of the episode and doing it strategically. Right. Again, you're getting this content, long form content that is produced by somebody else's pocketbook. And you have this opportunity now to take that content and repurpose it into millions of different ways. And a lot of people will do that. Most people will never do that, but there are a lot of people who will do that. And they see it as their win, but they're missing the point because they don't attribute back to the creator.

Folks who produced it. When you actually link back, when you actually consider attribution, when you actually do things to drive traffic from this not only to yourself, but to the host or to the connections or whatever, and you're shouting out others, you become more valuable of an asset. And as a relationship and as a content contact to that person, opposed to somebody who's just in it to take. Right. And so always think about, how can I optimize? How can I optimize? And you guys tracking, I mean, that's something almost nobody does. And it is so important so that you can know this opportunity was super lucrative. This opportunity was not. However, how can we turn what we have into something that's going to generate what we want? There's never a wasted opportunity as long as you're going in and focusing on all six of, or all five of the points before the follow up and then taking that follow up to the new next level. Not just with a human being following up, not just with a lead following up, but really following up on the creation of the content that was made.

Yeah. Oh, man. There's a ton of stuff to unpack and a ton of rabbit holes that we could definitely take this down. Yeah, I mean, the follow up, I think is one of the biggest things that a lot of people miss, you know, being on this side of the podcast. Right. Interviewing a lot of people, talking to a lot of people. The follow up element seems to be the one, like once we've recorded so many people just think, my job's done, I've recorded. Right. But bad guest. We were talking earlier about Kurt Molly, a mutual friend of ours. Right. So Kurt Molly's been on the show twice now. And one of the things is when Kurt comes on the show, he's an ads guy, so what does he do? He goes and posts it on Facebook and he runs ads to it. You think we want to have him on again after he does something like that? 100%. So the people that actually turn around and do some of the follow up, do some of the marketing are the ones that are most likely to get the most love in return from us in the form of us promoting their episodes harder, us wanting them back on the show, that sort of thing.

But then probably also you introducing them to your friends as an ideal guest or an ideal ads expert or what have you.

Yeah. And that was actually the next point I was gonna make is like, people just drop communication after that. And it's like, do you realize we've got a pretty good network as a result of what we do? Why are you just dropping off communication? Like, why so many people just fall off after that? It's like, you know, we can connect you with other podcasters. We can potentially be affiliates of your product. You know, we can maybe, maybe there's some way that we can exchange leads back and forth and share clients. I mean, there's so much more opportunity beyond just, hey, let's talk for an hour and then never talk again. Right. And so I think that that's something that so many people miss after going on podcasts is just like the. What happens after we record all the time.

And that's why this is just like, it is such a powerful inbound marketing strategy that most people get wrong.

Yeah.

And, and.

Most people that are out there offering to get you booked there, they don't understand any of this. So especially here's a red flag if anybody is thinking, oh, I'm going to do this and I'm going to, I'm going to do the strategy myself and I'm just going to hire somebody to get me booked. Please think about it. But here's a red flag. If somebody is like, you know, cancel anytime. No commitment, no contract. You don't have to be locked in just monthly to month. Think about that. Think about that. You're putting your business into the hands of somebody who is doing zero upfront work. They're just. And, and the truth is like, maybe, and correct me if I'm wrong, like, you're not just taking anybody on your show. There is quite the list, very selective hosts who have podcasts who are worth their salt, worth their weight and salt. They're not looking for guests. The absolute opposite is the case. And so any of these booking agencies or, you know, glorified VAs that tell you, oh, I can book you on 10 podcasts, well, they Can. But are they the podcast that you should be on?

Right.

What's your time worth? And then also early on in my days, I was on shows and I didn't understand how to vet them to make sure that I was not doing myself a disservice. There are so many podcasts out there that are actually going to be depositioning for you. And so when you're trying to get on a big name show, that is the right fit, that has the right audience, that team, because it's usually they've got other people that are doing the initial vetting before they do their final vetting. Those people are going to find those podcasts situations and it's like, nope, they're not going to make it through the first round because that's not what the host is looking for. And so you have to be really careful about just getting out there and being everywhere. If you're a business owner and you're actually looking to leverage podcast guesting for lead generation and profitability.

Yeah, yeah.

So where would you say, like, out of these six things we already talked about follow up as being like a big issue, but where do you see a lot of people just getting it wrong? Even when working with someone and you're like, I know the offer is a biggie and we. Let's definitely come back to that one. But is there something that just stands out? Like, like, dude, why do you keep getting this wrong?

I think it's just from the very beginning, you don't have a solid strategy. You have no idea why you are doing podcasts. You just know that you've heard from people like Joe and Matt or whoever that it's extremely lucrative. And so it's like, ooh, I want to tap into that. I want some of that. We've got a great product, we've got a great service. We are leaders in our industry. We want more sales. Great. What's in it for anybody else? Right. You're obvious. So let's get a little bit more granular and figure out what does that mean? How are you going to get more sales? Because you're not selling from podcasts. Podcasts are an opportunity to get exposed to your ideal buyers and build relationship, build rapport. It's a very intimate opportunity that most other media, dare I say all other media that I can think of right now. I mean, there's the.

Watching, right. The video, which a lot of podcasters record on video now and put that out too. But it's a very, it's long form. Again, you're not just going out there and having like three minutes or less to get your point across. You have 30 minutes to an hour usually and it's oftentimes free flowing and gets to, you get to share your mission, your philosophy, a bit about the backstory of the company. And this is not ideal oftentimes for companies that are built specifically just like it's, they're not mission driven. There's nothing wrong with that. But this is not the best strategy, I believe for a company that is just out there to churn a profit. And there is no, no like there's no. Our mission is, is like that's what it is to make money. Probably podcast guesting not the best idea, but having a podcast could be. There's still a lot of opportunity. Sponsoring podcasts could be stuff like that. But for podcast guesting, when you have a purpose or a company culture that's unique and that.

Is special, or you have a reason behind the founder story, like why you started it, stuff like that, this is a way for people to.

Feel you. And in this fast paced society, like we're more connected than ever, but at the same time more disconnected than ever with humans. And people are craving that human contact. There's so much anxiety and depression and all these, you know, autoimmune conditions and all the things that happen because we are desperately searching for true connection. And by letting yourself be exposed through a podcast interview, people are going to go, ooh, they said something that resonates with me. There's something about that message or that person or that business or whatever or oh, you know what, my cousin Jane really cares about that too. I should let her know that this company supports that cause, stuff like that. So you get to really be more human. And people are listening in their ear oftentimes passively while they're doing other things. And so they're receiving a lot more of the character of the interview, if that makes sense.

Totally.

Then just outright information.

Yeah. And I feel like so many people, when we go to conferences and things like that, I don't know how many people come up to us and go, I feel like I know you. Like they'll just come up and talk to us like we've known them forever and this is our first time meeting them. But we've spent hours and hours and hours and hours with some of these people without ever meeting them in person. Right. So like there is a very intimate element to it where we're building relationships with people that maybe we haven't met yet in real life. And you know, going back to your point about, you know, we vet out fairly heavily who comes on our show. That's why, you know, the people listening to this show, we, we feel like we have a little bit of a responsibility to only put really good people in front of them. And, you know, this actually is a good transition into the next thing I wanted to ask about, you know, with us, we actually do have a gatekeeper. Right. We have, we have Shannon on our team. She's our operations manager. If you're requesting to be on our podcast, you're going to her first. She's going to do some research on you and maybe 10% of the people actually make it to us to see who's reaching out. So how would you get past some of the gatekeepers? How would you go about, you know, let's say I want to be on a bigger podcast. Let's say I want to try to get on Lewis Howes or Pat Flynn or, or, you know, one of these bigger name podcasts that we know they're very protective with their audience. We know there's probably layers of gatekeepers between us and them to get on their show. What sort of things can we do to, you know, hedge our bets about getting on bigger shows like that?

Well, let's play with that for a moment and I'm going to just put outright, I have never booked anyone on Pat Flynn or on Lewis Howes. I don't have the relationship to do so. And it's not the, it's not. Those aren't the shows that my, that my, my customers actually. It's not going to move their needle.

Just as an example, a bigger show in your area? Yeah.

Well, let's play with yours. Is one of those a show that you would want to be on?

Yeah, I mean, we'd love to be on both of them. I mean, we actually personally know both of those guys, so it's probably not the biggest stretch of the imagination.

But can we play with something that like, can we just dive into something that would be like, legitimately somewhere you want to be that you haven't yet?

Yeah. Joe Rogan show. Yeah, there you go.

Let's do that.

That's sort of on our bucket list of who we'd love to be on their show?

Okay, so first of all, I am also going to say I don't know Joe Rogan. I don't actually listen to his show and I don't have any ins or I'd be happy to help you, but I'm gonna. But this Is like, this is how we go through this. Right. So for somebody who wants to be on a particular podcast, why. Why do you want to be on Joe Rogan's podcast?

I'd say with Joe Rogan specifically, it's more for, like, our own sort of selfish ego reasons. We listen to it a lot.

We really, really enjoy the show and the content.

Yeah, we like the content he puts out, and we just. I think, for us, we'd love to be among that sort of elite group of people he's had on his show. It probably wouldn't push our show too far ahead because it's not really our demographic, but.

But you want to be on there. You want to be on his show because. Because of the ego, you want to get to be on that list.

Yeah, it sort of feels unattainable for us, although less unattainable these days.

Well, let's go.

The ego thing we're playing here. Okay, so this is something that I would take anybody through. So anybody who's listening right now, you know, you can apply this process to yourself. Take a show, say, okay, this is what it would be. Now let's break it down. Why do you want to be on the show? Great. So for your own ego, for your own positioning to say, hey, I've been there, done that.

Yeah.

Right. To be able to have bragging rights, fine. We're not. I'm not judging your reason, but we want to know, what is that reason? And if you can't come up with something super deep, you need to go deeper and ask yourself, what would it be if I did know? Right. Or what is it below that? And we could do that if we were in a closed room and not on camera. But this is one of the things I do with my clients, is really dig deeper to figure out what is that desire that you have that would be fulfilled by being on that show? Okay, so then the next thing is, great, so we know what your desire is now, so we can put that to the side. So if Joe Rogan is the target, what's his desire? Why does he bring. Why does he bring guests on his show?

I think he brings on. It's probably a load of things. He loves to bring out interesting things, folks, to have great conversations and kind of navigate interesting perspectives. I feel like he's really good at bringing out new perspectives, and I feel like we have a pretty good perspective around and see this, where now we're.

Going back to you. Not asking about you, I'm asking about him. So now we already Know what you want. We already know how great you are. We're going to leave that to the side. We're focusing all on Joe right now.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think Joe just likes to have conversations that interest him. I honestly don't think he's super focused on, ooh, this would be a great one for my audience. I think he's focused on. This would be a great conversation to have. And, you know, I've got this platform, so I might as well share it. I honestly think those are his motivations.

So let's take that assumption and go with it. So what are his interests?

MMA fighting, stand up comedy, psychedelic drugs.

What am I missing?

A lot of health. There's a lot of health stuff, a.

Lot of mindset stuff.

So these are all very broad. Yeah, let's go deeper. Do you start going. We're not going to go through the whole, like, we don't have to go as granular, but this is what you want to do. You want to know, how do we, you know, how can somebody get, blah, blah, get to know? And so, okay, you've got all these like 10 buckets of topics that are pretty broad. What is it about psychedelic drugs or about MMA that lights him up? What has he demonstrated before on the show? What, what has he, like, what kind of research can you do or hire somebody to do that will get to the deepest possible level of what motivates him to have somebody from there on? And again, this is the big show we're talking about. Right? Like, this is your number one dream show. So again, as I kind of alluded to before mentioned before, it's not something that you're going to get quick results on. If you want to go on one of the top shows in the world, you can't expect that to happen just because you want it to. It may take years, but I believe that as long as you are following these steps, as long as you are going as deep as you possibly can to your level of comfort on each point here, you will get what you want. It's just going to happen. But most people will not go as deep as they need to go. Most people get tired and I've done that. Like, I'll think, oh, I really want to be on this show. And then I have the motivation, I understand the motivation and I go through the things and at some point I go kind of tired of jumping through hoops. I'm just done. I don't have that desire anymore and that's perfectly fine. But as long as you have the desire you can absolutely get there. I don't know Joe, again, I have no idea what his belief is about this. But hey, Joe, if you're listening, these guys really want to be on the show.

We'll make sure all the press hears all about this interview and.

But yeah, when you really want something. So I'm gonna, just for sake of time, I'm gonna like skip the rest of this. I think you can see where we're going and just drill in the possibilities. So let's just say we've gone into a bucket. Let's say we've gone into the bucket of MMA fighting because that's the easiest one for me to remember right now. And you've gotten to a point that is so fundamental to his interest that maybe you get him tickets, I don't know, maybe you send them tickets, maybe you get his favorite fighter to sign something for him, maybe, who knows, right? Maybe you figure out a time and place like this is more my style and yours too. I think this is more natural to you as just relationship people. You know, you figure out where he's going to be, you buy a ticket and you get there and you get the opportunity to get to know him, or you tap into your network and just say, hey, guys, you know, something that's on her horizon is we'd really love to meet Joe Rogan. Does anybody have a first or second level connection that they're willing to make an introduction to? Right. You go down the rabbit hole as far as you need to go down to get what you want.

Yeah, yeah. And the beautiful thing here is, you know, from our experience is even if you don't know a lot of folks out there, like you just said, you can position yourself in a good way. Just be a cool human. Maybe you meet them at an event or you go, go to a place where you know they're going to be at and you could probably find a good, relevant show to your audience that doesn't need to be the massive show in the charts. But you know, like, based off our tracking, it's definitely, it's, it's the unexpected shows. It's not the ones that are the massive shows. They just have a great audience that's relevant.

Yeah. Quite honestly, the shows that we thought were going to be the biggest impact shows typically aren't. And the ones that have like kind of smaller followings, but the following is so niche down that like they're rabid about this one topic. Those are the ones that usually have the best results for us.

Yeah. That's how it works. And something else I just want to point about, just another point about when you get to meet Joe Rogan. So you're not asking your network to make connections because you want to be on this show. You're asking to meet him because we've gotten rid of your desire. Your desire is over here. It's hanging out, it's going to be there. But in order to get there, you got to connect with him. You've got to give him value to get his attention to where he actually wants to interact with you until he is willing to interact with you. This is like you were saying about the gatekeeper, right? Whatever somebody needs to do to get through to the person who's the decision maker, that is, you know, that's the person who you need to interact with. And you don't go to get to know him and then say, by the way, I'd love to be a guest on your show.

That's a big fat no. Right off the top.

He's a big fat no. And so what I recommend for folks who are not going as big as Joe Rogan, but who are looking at shows that they want to be on. You know, you can use social media to, number one, first of all, you got to listen to the show. If you haven't listened to the show, you don't deserve to be on the show. So let's make sure you've listened to the show and then you're going to go and leave them a five star rating and review that is considered and thoughtful, you're not going to just.

Go like, do something of value. Those reviews matter to podcasters. They help with the, with getting more listeners.

And podcasters notice too. They have alerts, trust your name.

We get emails when people write reviews for us.

Yeah.

And if you leave them a four star review because that is a great review in your opinion and you reserve five star reviews of anything only for the ver for God, like you will not get a yes. Five stars, folks. Five stars, five star rating, considered review that actually demonstrates that you listened and that you actually do like the show. You actually really find value for the show because if you don't, you don't deserve to be on the show.

That's right.

So do that. And then you can just even tweet out, like use a platform, a social media platform that you have a significant or meaningful existence on and that the host does as well and share with your audience that you just heard this great episode and you want to share it. And here's why, you know, and tag them. Tag the guest, tag the host. You're adding value. Even if they don't personally see that and they have a team managing their social media, the team will start recognizing your name. Who knows if the team is connected to the gate? You just don't know. And it's just good karma, right?

Yeah. And there's so many cool ways to connect with folks even if you don't have a direct connection. Like, I heard something yesterday is, you know, lady Michelle Weinstein who has. She has a lot of sales stuff. She says sending Instagram videos is like, so damn effective. No one does it. But the. Just because the personality we were talking about writing emails with or not writing, but speaking out emails with something like, you know, a video app. Bomb bomb or loom bomb bomb. Yeah. And it's fricking amazing. But you could do the same thing to just initially connect with someone either in email or social media. It's probably going to be a little easier. Yeah.

So give them what they want before they ask. Don't make them ask. Yeah, it's like, don't ask. Start rapport building. Right. Like share or just get noticed. And after you've actually engaged, like, I mean, John Rulin is the king of giftology. Right? Like, gifts are great. Unexpected surprises, unexpected opportunities. Handwritten notes, videos, whatever. Get creative and be you. 2015. I reached out to somebody that I had zero.

Connection with, but she was. Her name's Jodi Jealous. She was an expert in or is an expert in YouTube videos. And at the time, she was like the biggest thing I'd ever seen. And I thought she was amazing. I loved her sass and I wanted her on my, my.

My summit. I was a nobody. I'd never. Like I was a correctional officer. Nobody knew who I was. And I made her a video back then because that was her, her medium. That's how she uses. That's what she does to communicate. And I was very transparent. And I just said, hey, you know, here's the deal. And I've actually never done this before because it was true. I've never made this video and sent. But I want you on my. On my summit. What do you need from me to. To make this. Yes. And she actually shared that with her audience after telling me, I'm on. You're amazing. Happy to do it. And she shared with her audience about why she just said yes, even though she gets summit requests all the time that she says no to and used me as an example of doing what she's teaching. Right. So when you are actually invested in that person, whether it is to be on a podcast or for anything else, that you want to build that relationship with that person. Four, figure out what their values are, their goals, their desires, and when you can tap into that and deliver without expecting anything in return or asking for anything in return, you're winning.

That's a win.

And then you can say something like, hey, just curious. Don't say this until you have the rapport. But, like, I mean, you could, but you probably get a no. But once you have that rapport, asking something like, are you currently accepting guest pitches? You'll get information. Right. And then you may find out also more. It might be that they're taking a break because they're having a baby. Right. So they're already set. Or it's not necessarily a personal no to you, but you get to understand more about where they're at in their life and, you know, they're having a baby. Guess what? You can send a. Send a bouquet when they do. Right.

So you're learning information. Yeah. That's all. You're just gathering information. Information. You could do something of value with that information. It's really smart.

Yeah, I'll stop because I know I'm, like, going, we can go down this rabbit hole all night long.

There's only one I want to touch on, though.

It might be the same one that we're talking about here. You opened a loop earlier about right offer, having the right offer, some of the ways that you can get that right offer. And I definitely want to close that loop because I want to know selfishly, but I think our audience wants to know as well.

Okay, so this is meta, but now that it's actually being talked about, it's challenging to make it work the way it works when it's really organic. But.

Let'S say this was more of an interview about. Well, actually, I mean, it is. We're talking about podcast guesting, so we didn't get into some of the things I often get into about people who want to pitch themselves and all of that. But should I use my example as an example, or should I just give you an example?

Whatever feels right.

I know. Whatever feels right. That's what it's all about. So it's really weird to do it now. Like, I have an offer, but it's so. It would be so poorly placed. So you want to know what your CTA is for that particular audience. You want to have an idea before you go in.

Sure.

However, it doesn't have to be that which you give them. Be flexible and be willing to change in the moment, be present. And so what I'll have. I don't. You already recorded with Jason, Right? Okay. So I don't know if Jason did this or not, but I would be very proud if he did.

I think he did, actually. Go on, go on.

The Nicole Ninja sauce. So I'm sharing my trade secrets with you. Thank you. So when you're in the middle of a conversation and somebody asks you about something that really is going to take a significant amount of time or that it's just really, really a hot topic, you can let them know that you can answer it, but that there's. It's actually a bigger thing. So you want. You're going to. What you're going to do is after the interview, you're going to pull some things together, some resources that are usually only available to your paying clients, and you're going to put them together on a page just for this audience. As long as it's not live. Right. And so when you go to myurl.com and shoot, I didn't even ask you before we started what you want me to put there for your audience, but myurl.com audience or whatever the call name is, or whatever.

Whatever'S going to be memorable for that audience, then you put it there.

So actually he did that perfectly on the episode. Yeah, he said, exactly.

Jason, I'm so proud of you.

Yeah. And I'll give another shout out right now. He was like, animoto.com like, because we were talking about that and I'm like, where should he go? And he's like, how about animoto.com hustle? And that has all these cool resources and yeti yada. I was like, so that's exactly what you're saying.

So it's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm not doing a good job of. I realize I'm not doing a good job. So that is the. That is what I would recommend for.

Next level. Okay. So the worst thing you can do is say, go to my website or go get my book or go do something generic that nobody is going to do. They may, however, remember your name and search you in podcast directory on whatever podcast player they're using to listen to another interview that you've done that's really cool with podcast guesting is that if they've been listening to you for the last 30 to 60 minutes, they may want to hear more of you. They don't care about the cta. They want to get more knowledge. But yes. So better than sending them just to some. Just your website, Send them to a specific URL. And if you're on a show that you believe that you've done all these steps and you know, like, this is a. This is the right show to be on, make it a URL that's custom.

And you can put together resources that. I think what Jason probably is doing is putting together resources that are applicable to the conversation that you had on that page. But the next ninja strategy that you can use is when you're having a conversation and people are leaning in. So, okay, let's do this. So what is something that I have asked you or I've been talking with you guys about that you're like, you want to go deeper into and knowing we have no time, but. But pretend we did have time.

Like, what's something about that whole. The whole discussion we were doing about Joe Rogan? You know, it's like that process of really getting to know.

Okay, let's do this for real then. Okay. And I can't believe I'm doing this because it's, like, late here. I had to go to bed. But I'm going to do this for you, for the love of.

Okay, okay. So you want to go deeper because I cut that off. Okay, perfect. So we get. So what I should have said before if I were in it is that. Okay, so I'm going to cut this off because for the. For the sake of time, I'm going to cut this off. But I know this is really interesting to you, and I know your audience probably really wants the rest of this, and I want to help you guys get Joe Rogan. So what I'm going to do is actually put the rest of this into a training. So as soon as we're. I'm going to record the rest of a training just for this audience, just applicable to this, and I'm going to pop it on thenicoleholland.com hustle so if you want to get the rest of it, go to thenicoleholland.com hustle and you can opt in and I will send you a training video on the rest of the process.

Love it.

Perfect. And I want to do that right now. Is that page live yet? It will be by the time Zepsy goes live.

So what I did, just to bring it in, if you haven't figured it out, because you have already, but just for those of us who are a little bit slower on the uptake, I Am with most things. What I did was I was able to weave in. Great. You're leaning in. You want more. I'm going to give you exactly what you want, but I'm not going to give it to you right now. I'm going to create it. As soon as I'm done this interview, I'm going to put it on a place that only this audience would even know about. And you're going to get it there when you subscribe.

Yeah. So you're opening a loop that could really only be closed by opting in.

Now, by opting in. And this leads into something you guys talk to, a lot of talk about is the pond. Right. I call it a bucket, but a pond. And it also supports your tracking.

That's right.

So this is like, okay, now I've got a list of people who specifically came from Hustle and Flowchart for this purpose. Because they want this thing. Right. Tag them so you can get really specific.

Figure out exactly which show is bringing us the traffic and the sales and yada, yada, yada. That's exactly what we do. And we just took it a step further with that wicked report stuff. That's not necessary, and that is very unique.

Well, the wicked report stuff, when I was setting up all the tracking, I didn't even realize, like, I was going to be able to view these reports and wicked reports. I just kind of stumbled across them and went, holy shit, podcasting is amazing. We should do more of this.

So that just proves your point right there, Nicole. So cool. Yeah, I'm going to opt in right when that page is live, so. And as everyone else should be.

Give me an hour or so. I think I need to eat dinner first.

You got time. It's not going live.

You're good on the to do. Yeah, there's a lot here, and I know we. We've been going on for a while now.

So do you have any.

Any of you guys love.

Love you guys. Like, seriously, I want to go to San Diego just to, like, hang out in studio and geek out for a day.

All right, sue us.

Oh, in the studio, I was like, wait, what?

Yes.

That's a good turn.

TNC is coming up in March, so if you're in San Diego during tnc.

We will be.

We will definitely be at TNC in a very big way. But yeah, so one of the questions we ask everybody on the show, do you. Do you have any books that you recommend or that you refer back to often?

Yes. I really love the Big Leap by Gay Hendricks. And I've read it probably, I don't know, 15 times. I don't read. I listen on audible.

That's a good one. And on audio, I don't think I've.

Listened to that one before.

No. Oh, totally. Amazing. And I've listened through many times. But what I like to do is just when I need a. If I'm feeling a little funky or I'm feeling like those negative Nancy thoughts in my mind going, you're not good enough, or whatever it is, I just go, okay, Gay's got something to say. Just like, open it up and hit like, wherever. And I always get something profound.

You usually get a quick hit from any chapter. Huh? You're just like, boom, Chapter six.

Gay Hendrix. And I just actually interviewed him for the second time on the Nicole Holland Show. So that is probably going to be out before.

This goes out. But it's about a hobby of his. It's not about the big leap. But anyways, he's amazing. One of my favorite authors, one of my favorite people, and I highly recommend the Big Leap.

Super cool. Thank you. Yeah, I'm going to go re listen. You should listen for sure. It's a good one.

And everybody go check out the nicole holland.com hustle. Anywhere else you want people to go. Social media accounts. Anywhere else. That would be cool to check you out.

Well, you can check me out everywhere. You can connect with me. I love hearing from people. I love any takeaways. You can do that on your favorite social platform. I'll have all of that linked on the Nicole nicoleholland.com hustle.

Sweet.

And we'll link all that in the show notes, too. Nicole, you rock. We'll see you at tnc. Hopefully sooner, though, so let's make it happen.

Bye, guys.

Thank you. All right. Hey, thanks for listening to that episode. Hopefully you enjoyed it.

You dang right you did.

Of course you enjoyed it. What's not to enjoy?

You weren't gonna publish it unless you. And we're gonna enjoy this.

If we don't enjoy it, we don't publish it. Therefore, we only publish the stuff we.

Know you're gonna hear. We listen and read the notes as well. So very, very true.

Well, you know what I want to do? I want to actually start reading some reviews of some of the people that listen to our podcast because we're getting some really cool reviews. And also I want to kind of incentivize people to leave more reviews, because then we're going to read them for you.

Hey, man, this is our Shout out section. Yeah, that's kind of what this is going to become for sure, the outro shout out section. So yeah, let's do some reviews and prior to that, let's talk about some of the guys that have supported us. Yeah, and there's a couple shout outs from our friends and some other folks that reached out to us. These two actually are our friends. They're pretty close friends of ours and they support our show. So if you want to get more of an exclusive shout out, reach out to us. We have a couple spots available occasionally, so it depends. But the first buddy of ours actually Steve Olsher, he's one of our masterminds. He runs a podcast called beyond eight Figures. And they're chatting with just amazing entrepreneurs who do. They have either exited or they currently run a business that is above 10 million and they basically grill. So they have three hosts over there, Steve Ulscher, Mary Goulet and Richie Otey. They're all buddies of ours as well, all in San Diego. And they basically grill them until they figure out their methodologies, the tactics and action steps that actually got them to accomplish that, which are what few companies ever would ever get to that point for sure.

It's a great podcast. They cover a lot of ground and the whole thing is trying to uncover what goes into creating an eight figure business so that other businesses could sort of reverse engineer the success. So amazing podcast. That's Steve Olsher's Beyond Eight Figures podcast. Definitely go check it out on Apple Podcasts and everywhere where you listen to your favorite shows.

You gonna like it. It's very similar to this one with different approaches. So I think if you're a fan of this, you're going to love his show, beyond eight Figures.

And then our other supporter for this episode is our good buddy Casey Zieman's Easy Webinar.

Bam. And both these guys have actually been on our show too, Steve and Casey. So if you like them, you can even check out an episode too.

Yeah. So check out easywebinar.com hustle because Casey put together a 20% off deal for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart. So easywebinar.com now easy webinar is kind of a. It's a webinar tool, but it has live webinars, it's got automated webinars, it's got kind of hybrid webinars, it's got all sorts of, you know, social media functionality. It's got, it's pretty much like the only webinar platform you would ever Need. It's got everything all in a single platform. A lot of the other platforms you gotta buy one product to go live and one product to go automated, and one product if you want. And this one is just, you know, you get easy Webinar, you're covered, you got it all. So if you want Easy Webinar, get it for 20% off. Go to easywebinar.com hustle and again, I just want to thank our partners and our supporters on this show. Casey and Steve, we love you guys. Let's go talk about some of these cool reviews we're getting.

Yeah, let's get into them. Alrighty.

So this review here, this is a first.

Yeah, Doing the review shout outs.

The review shout outs. Yeah. This one came from David Frey and he was actually the winner of our podcast review contest. Every month we're giving away cool goodies and swag and cool stuff for people to thank them for leaving reviews on the podcast.

And David won some pretty legit headphones.

Yeah. Some Bose Quiet Comforts.

They're my faves. I always carry those things around. So. Yeah, he just left a comment. So our review.

All right, well, let's. Let's read this award winning review.

All right, so David Frey says, I've been listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast for several years now. And here's three specific things I love about the podcast. I love that he's like specific. He's breaking it up into numbers too.

He took some time on this one.

One, they get super experienced, high level guests on their podcast. Matt and Joe are well known by many experts, so they're able to persuade the best of the best to come and share their expertise on their podcast. And most of their guests own multimillion dollar businesses.

That is very true. And it gives me the warm and fuzzy feelings on the inside. Oh, we're so known. That's like the backbone of this whole podcast. So he nailed it. Thanks, David.

Number two, the guests on this podcast talk specifically about their expertise and give listeners specific tips, tactics and techniques. There's been many times that I've purchased products and tools I've never knew about to help my business after listening to an episode of this podcast.

So this is actually something that I like the most about this review is and people have told us, like Chris Komitz, actually, you know, Podfest owner, he's been on the show. He's like these guys, the boys, he calls us. He's like their audience takes action. Like this audience, like you, actually. So you listening like thank you. And not just buying stuff that we might offer, but other people's stuff. We mentioned you actually take action with this stuff. And that's what we want. We're not just blabbering on to blabber on. We want to actually change some lives and make a great business out of this. So thank you. And David sounds like he's doing that.

And point number three, Matt and Joe work well together. They ask all the right questions and know when to dig deeper on a topic to get specifics out of their guests. That's the stuff I tune in for. And they pick people who speak on topics of interest to me. Seriously, if you're a business person, this is a must listen to podcast. So thank you so much, David.

We work so well together.

Yeah. I mean, the public appearance is that we actually like each other. So, you know, well, we try to maintain appearances.

It seems to be working. Even David, he's been listening a long time. Hasn't figured out. No, I'm just kidding. He's right. David, awesome review. Appreciate that, man. And that was a five star review. You kind of left that one out there, Matt.

Oh, it was a five star review.

His title too. He said it was a or it is a must listen. I can't see now because you're covering.

It up, but oh yeah, his title. If you're a business person, this is a must listen to podcast in all caps.

Yeah, it was a little rough. This is our first time doing this. It's going to be a fun time. More shout outs to come and leave a review. We love you and subscribe wherever you listen to Podkizzles.

Thank you.

Bye. Bye.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a CliffsNotes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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