Ori Bengal — How A Habit Of Daily Art Turned Into A Dream Career

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flow Chart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Yo. Welcome back to another episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast presented by evergreenprofits.com he was very, very determined with that dot com.

I should get a voiceover artist just to record evergreenprofits.com but very professionally so. Then every time we do this intro, we just like press a button and it's like brought to you by Evergreen profits dot com.

We're not that cool. We're not that polished.

We could be one day, but maybe we are.

All right, so today's episode was an absolute. I didn't. We didn't know where it was gonna go actually. We had absolutely no plan. We literally like hit record the second we started the call with Ori, which typically we kind of give people a little bit of a heads up of what we're gonna do, but this guy, he just rolls off the cuff. So Ori Bengal is our guest. He's amazing. He's kind of. He does it all. He's an amazing artist for one. That's probably his biggest thing that he's got going on now. Well over 2000 days of doing art every single day and publishing it. So it's not just like stick figure type stuff like Matt and I would probably do. He's doing sculptures, 3D oil paintings, like digital. I mean, he's got this massive process. He breaks it all down. So if you're interested. But he's using accountability in a very interesting way to basically do that and not give up. And it's just something that I think we can all relate to in a powerful way. So. Absolutely.

And you know, he's actually created a new piece of art for 2160 days in a row as of this recording.

So it'll probably be a lot more by the time this actually gets published.

Yeah. So it's been pretty insane. And so what we're gonna talk about on this episode is we're actually gonna. We're gonna chat with him about. We're actually gonna talk about art and how to do good art and how to keep up with it. But then what I was really curious about is how does this mofo make money just doing art? So we actually get into that too. So it's really fun stuff. And let's start by talking about how Ori likes to get chased around by bulls.

Yeah, why not?

Let's get into that. Let's dive in we are recording Ori.

We're live.

Really important. We are recording Ori and we are recording Ori.

That is true.

Comma. Ori. Yeah. So just for the listeners, we basically have not prepped Ori for anything because we're just jumping into it and see how it flies. It's gonna be.

Ori said he likes to live dangerously and just take what we give him.

It's true. I can give you my. The link to my bull poker video that you can include in the show notes.

You know, it's funny, we actually had.

We had Marshall Wayne on the show, and for whatever reason, when Marshall Wayne was on the show, he talked about you doing bull poker.

Yep.

And we linked to that YouTube video on the Marshall Wayne episode.

Sweet. This, this is how I'm getting my SEO. I do dumb shit and I let other people talk about it.

So really quick, explain the video. Like just explain what the hell bull poker is so we can close that loop.

So bull po. A couple people sitting around a small card table. You have cards? I really don't know what the cards are for other than. So you can call it poker. And then they let a pissed off bull into the arena and the last person out of their seat wins.

So it's kind of like playing chicken almost. It's like the last one to like not run away from the table.

It's not just about running away. For example, the guy sitting across from me had his back to the bull, so the bulls coming right at me. And then I watch this guy get like flung eight feet in the air. And then it is all going really fast. And the bull like headbutts the table, like smashes it into my knee, breaks the table on my knee. And that broke my chair. So technically I was out of my seat. And then I was just running around, you know, grabbing the fence so I can jump and not get hit by the bull. And you know, I thought that was kind of fun. And then after I did that like two or three times, they're like signaling me like, no, dude, just get on the other side of the fence.

And you know, the really sad part is after all that and I don't even know where the. I played bull poker and all I got was this lousy shirt. Shirt is.

So you did it for the shirt and now you don't have the shirt?

No, I did because I was hoping to win. And in, in all honesty, this is probably like, you know, this, this will definitely tell your listeners who they're listening to. So the origin of me Going to play bull poker was. I was. I was couch surfing for six years. So I was staying with this. This woman who was the visitors and conventions bureau representatives for Oregon. Sorry, for Coos Bay, Oregon. And she was introducing me to this other woman who was the visitors and conventions person for Bandon, which is another city near there. And so we're all having lunch. They had got their lunch before me, and I sat down at the table while they were conversing. And I sit down right as they say, and who'd be dumb enough to do that?

I was like, you're looking at.

Oh, my ears are ringing.

You said the magic words.

Who would be dumb enough to do what?

Oh, holy shit. So they must have been the ones recording that video then, because I do.

Remember hearing two women. Yeah, it's hilarious because they're giving the commentary about how much they try to talk me out of this and how terrible of an idea they think it is. And the first multiple minutes of it actually are the mc, the host, whatever you want to call it. The guy reading a huge and lengthy and hilarious disclaimer stating how dumb we, the contestants, really are for doing this and they're not liable.

Yeah, I remember that. That was actually just as funny as the actual bull part.

I thought so too.

All right, we'll link that sucker up. Shoot us a link after this call.

Since you guys. Since you guys are marketing and trying to teach people, like, great marketing advice, I will say this. So we' laughing at bull poker and how dumb I am to do it, and yay, I survived. But.

You would have no idea how many free drinks I've gotten in marketing conventions and conferences because of this story. And usually I don't even have to tell it. Like, usually I'll just be speaking to someone, and someone else will go, hey, man, was that bull poker thing real? And then everyone else is like, oh, what's bull poker? And then, because it's a thing that hardly anyone's done. How many people do you guys know who have done bull poker?

I've never even heard of it before you. But then when I saw it, I went on a YouTube, like, freaking rabbit hole. And I was like, wow, this is crazy.

Yeah.

But no, you are the only one.

So, you know, I can say the same thing. How many people do you know who have done a new work of art every single day for 2160 days in a row?

Pretty insane. That's pretty insane. So we'll talk about the art in a second, but I actually want to step back a Little bit. Because you've had a sort of myriad of jobs. In fact, when I first met you, I believe it was at Blog World Expo in LA, back somewhere around 2009, 2010. And we were fierce competitors. I mean, we hated each other.

Did you punch each other?

Yeah, we got in a fight because we both had.

It was really bloody. We actually uploaded to YouTube, but it was too violent and got taken down immediately.

Yeah, yeah. Because we both had. Both had training programs that taught WordPress.

And for anybody listening, that didn't really happen.

Tickle fight.

That's all it was.

Matt took a baby out of a stroller and was beating me over the head with it. Oh, man. Those babies don't hurt as much as you'd think, though.

Yeah.

But anyway, let's hear sort of the sort of progression, because I know now you're pretty much all in on the artwork. And we are going to. We want to talk about that and what you've got coming up with your book. And I've seen it, and it's freaking killer. But I want to. I want to sort of give people the progression of how you got there.

Oh, absolutely. I will say this. So.

There'S definitely a lot of life lessons in that journey, and that's actually why I'm putting the book out. But. So it all started when I was a little kid.

My mom still says. Tells me to this day very often. She reminds me about how when I was in third grade, she went to the parent teacher meeting and, you know, the teacher told her, oh, yeah, Ory does great. He's one of our better students. Always raising his hand, gets the right answers, you know, does great on the tests and always take notes, or so I thought. Because when I actually checked his notebook for the biannual notebook review, there was not like a single word in there. Orey had just been doodling the whole year. So.

I'd been, you know, drawing kind of like my whole life. And I never even realized that that was, like, a thing or that that was my thing, because no one ever said, oh, this is great stuff, you know, and, oh, you can be an artist. That's a career or anything. So it's just something I did for fun and wanted to get better at. But I wasn't even, like, really showing my art to anyone. And then, all right, let's skip the, you know, teenage years of, like, regular jobs, Movie theater, clothes, CompUSA, all that crap. I did get into CompUSA solely so that I could get cost, wholesale cost on computer parts. So That I could build bigger, better, faster computers so that I can do more with. With my art. At the time, I wanted to do 3D animation.

Like you. I got into photography along the way that. Actually, wait. A really important jumping point was in 2001.

I was a demo artist for some really expensive 3D software. So I'm the guy that made it look easy. So you do spend $240,000.

And then you hire me to do the training. And I was dating this girl, and she said, oh, my God, your art so good, you gotta do an art show. And I said, well, I don't know. She's dating me, so how good can her judgment, like, really be?

That's a good point.

Yeah. You know, and. But she said, no, no, I showed it to my mom, showed her your stuff. And my mom works with all these galleries, and she wants to meet you. I'm like, wow, she's not dating me and she works with galleries. She sounds like really highly qualified. Let's. Let's meet. And she said, you should definitely do an art show. I said, okay. And I didn't actually know what, you know, how to research things like I do now. And the Internet kind of sucked back in 2001 compared to now. And so I just signed up. I put the word out, and I signed up for the first thing I found, which was it wasn't even really an art show. It was one of those, like, first Friday, second Saturday, art walk kind of things. People aren't really there to buy expensive art. They're just there to, you know, look around, something to do. And I didn't think of that. I didn't sell anything. And so I figured, well, I guess I must be a failure as an artist because I didn't sell anything. And so I stopped making art for 10 years. Now a couple, four and a half years after that. So in 2005, I discovered audiobooks.

And that absolutely transformed my life because I wasn't, you know, a great reader. Like, books would kind of bore me. I don't know, maybe I have dyslexia or something. And.

Then I discovered conferences, and that was obviously a cool change. And then.

I was always drawn to marketing and advertising. I just thought it was. I'm not even sure what it was that. That drew me in about it. I think it's just a good, fun way to communicate with people that gets resolved. I don't know. And.

And then I went couch surfing in 2006, my. My lease was about to expire, and I thought, hey, you know, why don't I.

Instead of like renewing here or going back to my parents or whatever, why don't I just kind of go everywhere and then figure out where I want to renew? Because think about it, we're all, we're all where we live because that's where we've been, right? You move there for a job or for a lot of people, they, they're born there and that's kind of where you stay for 20 years. My parents moved us from Israel and I'd been in south Florida for 20 years. So yeah, I gave away my stuff, got in my car and went on a journey to find where I'm going to renew my lease. And six years later that ended up being Austin. And in the process I discovered, I went to a lot of marketing conferences because I really like the people in Internet marketing. A lot of them have had to learn a lot and most of them are self made and they also have the flexibility of schedule that if there's something cool to do, they can go and do it. And everyone told me, oh yeah, you should, you should do, you should put out a course, you know, put out something. And to pay for my, my couch surfing adventures, I made, I did a little bit of photography, I made some websites. And so I created eventually a course on WordPress and.

I released that in 2011. And it was, it was, it was absolutely life changing. I think it was the first big thing that I'd actually completed in my life. I've started a million things, but completing is different. And also at 2011, right before the launch of my WordPress course, I went to Maui and my buddy took me to all these galleries in Lahaina and it broke my heart. Like by the fifth gallery, I was completely heartbroken because I realized that holy shit, art was always my thing. It was a thing that I didn't need money to incentivize me to do. I didn't need anything. It was just something I wanted to do and I did all my free time and I haven't done it for 10 years because I tried something once and it didn't go as I planned. And thankfully I was more persistent when it came to learning to walk.

Here. I didn't get that right the first time either, but. And so I vowed that I would do art every day. And that lasted a whole two weeks. And then the next year, since I now had a lot more discretionary income because of the WordPress course, I, I had hired my little brother and I was, I flew him in from San Francisco, he was a bartender at the time, but he's got amazing people skills. And I was like, oh, this guy would be an amazing affiliate manager and recruiter. And so I flew him in, I gave him a bunch of training, I took him to a whole bunch of personal development stuff, including.

Lifebook, where you fly to Chicago, you sit there for four days with no Internet, no WI fi, no cell phone, and you just kind of work on what you want and what you don't want in your life. And well, I haven't touched my Lifebook since I got out of there. I couldn't tell you what's in it. I do remember that I.

For when it came to what I don't want, I didn't want that feeling of heartbreak again, of not doing my.

My thing. And so I decided that, you know, they tell you obviously not just to think about what you want and don't want, but I also come up with a plan. And so my plan was, I'm going to leverage accountability because accountability has worked for me in the past for completing WordPress, for getting six pack abs. So one time I tried doing that. And so I posted on Facebook, hey, I'm gonna do new work, a new drawing every day. And I knew that somewhere out there, some asshole just waiting to go, haha, I knew you couldn't do it. But now I feel bad for that asshole because it's been 2160 days and I haven't missed a day.

I remember that post, actually. I remember right then when you started and then when, I mean, you would post and you might still do this, but your new artwork every single day, they'll do. Yeah, I mean, see, this is guilty. Freaking, freaking Facebook blocking your stuff from me. Now I need to go like everything of yours again because I love seeing that stuff because I'm like, fuck, yeah, he's doing it, man. Because I literally remember when he started that. I can't believe that was 2012 now.

Yeah, April 22nd. April 21st, 2012. And.

Your reaction right there actually is exactly the reason that I'm putting out a book. Because it's, you know, a reminder for people of like, yeah, sure, the art's great and I've had fun making it and selling it and all that good stuff, but it's, it's so much more than that. It's that reminder. It shows people that, hey, just a regular guy who's dumb enough to do things like bull poker, you know, is. Can actually make time to do the thing for their passion. And here's what happens when you do it every single day for seven years?

You know? And, I mean, I just told you guys the story, and I. So I've failed, and I've quit a couple times with a huge gap in between. I mean, so this is like, you know, more than 10 years between and. And I still picked it up. And, you know, now. Now I absolutely am running it. Running with it, as you said. The funny thing is, though, you said, yeah, I've noticed. You're, like, really running with it. I kept doing the art, but I never actually like, fully owned it until just February. So just, like, a month and a half ago. So after, like, over 2,000 days of doing art every single day, all of a sudden I'm like, you know, I just realized I'm an artist who has a lot of marketer friends, because before I was just like, oh, I'm just a marketer who happens to do art every day. So now that flipped around, and so since February, I started being more of an artist. I've been hanging out with other artists. I've been going to gallery shows, been putting my art in galleries.

And then also this book, what I sent you was what I finished designing in December that was gonna be just for me. So when people say, oh, well, what kind of art do you do? And I'm like, oh, I do everything. I paint, I sculpt, I carve, I weld, I paint robots. I paint women and dogs and sci fi and abstract and people. Like, it's really hard to fathom or even get a picture of what that looks like. So now I can just whip my book out and show it to people and. And they really get it. And the reaction is usually appropriate, like, wow, you did all this? But it's just gonna be for me and my collectors. And now that I've, like, decided I'm gonna own being an artist, I'm like, you know what? I'm making it bigger. Like, bigger pages, more pages, thicker pages, making a nice collector's box. And I'm gonna get the word out. Like, I'm doing a viral contest giveaway, something that you guys have spoken about on multiple episodes, which I highly recommend your listeners go back and listen to, because it's fantastic content. And I'm not saying that just because I'm on the show, but rather because it really inspired me.

Thank you, man.

Thank you.

Yeah, no, a lot of people have said that, and that's. And I'm happy you're gonna do it. Yours is, like, prime for the picking, man. You have so much to give away, you know, bonuses. I mean, there's just a lot of good stuff all around, everything you're doing. And that's not. That's not bullshit, because I'm like. I'm just kind of. I'm actually scrolling through your feed right now looking at your latest work. I'm like, holy crap. Like, I've missed a lot. Like, I really have.

So with your. With your daily picture, do you ever. Do you ever have days where you're like, oh, shit, it's 11:58. And then you just draw, like, a stick figure and you're like, fuck it, that's my picture for the day.

You know, it's funny you say that.

I'll tell you, I've. There's. There's plenty days, so. So when would I consider a day? Is. Is a day of being awake? It's not. It's got to be uploaded by midnight. If you actually look at the timestamps, a lot of them are like four in the morning, six in the morning. Because if I was doing at midnight, I stunt the pieces. A lot of them just take more time than that. And a lot of pieces actually take longer than a day. But I only get the credit for the day that they're uploaded. And so while I'm working on a bigger piece, I'll have to do, like, a bunch of smaller pieces so that I have something for those individual days. And not this past Valentine's Day, but the one before.

I went.

I went with my girl to.

Sedona, Arizona, and we had this beautiful cabin on top of a mountain with a view. And we ate some mushrooms, and we went camping, or not camping, hiking. And we came back and, you know, she got this Polish mead that was amazing. And I was all proud of myself. I started this great fire in the bedroom in the fireplace.

Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, yeah. Small but important details. And she lit candles, and everything was looking all romantic. And we're about to air quotes here. Celebrate Valentine's Day. And she says. She whispers in my ear.

Did you do your art for the day?

And I'm like, no, I did not. I think the world is getting a stick figure today. And he says.

No, don't give the world a stick figure. And, well, couldn't you just put a.

Camera in the corner of the room and call that art?

You know, I thought of doing stuff like that before, but. And I've done things where they go kind of quickly, and then I'm like, nah, I didn't work hard enough at it. I should do something like, bigger, better, whatever. And I do. And so, yeah, I was in bed, like, you know, painting, and I think it took me like two hours or something. I made an abstract. Two hours, three hours, I don't know. But they're like literally tears coming out of my eye because I did not. I wanted to be spending time with her. And technically I was, but, you know, more engaged with her than. Rather than making my art. But it came out great. A lot of people liked that art. And, you know, we still had a fantastic Valentine's Day. A lot of times that, oh, crap, it's 11:56. That's more like it's, you know, whether it's 10:00pm or 2:00am, it's like, oh, I'm exhausted. Time to go to bed. Oh, shit. I didn't do my art well. And, you know, so sometimes the timestamp is 4 in the afternoon because, you know, I didn't. I didn't do my art. And even when I want to do a stick figure, I've done this for so long, I can't do a stick figure because, like, I. It would just be so out of place. It's like, you can't.

Right.

You know, you can't go out there and give some. The world something that. That sucks after you've been. Unless you're making an actual statement. Like, if I had a real reason other than, oh, I'm tired, then yeah, sure. But other than that, nah, man. Yeah.

So every single piece of art you've ever done has gone on your Facebook profile, like the daily piece of art.

Yeah. And actually for you and your listeners, you can go to theartofori.com Year 6, Year 5, Year 4, Year 3, Year 2, Year 1. Each one of those will take you to the respective Facebook album where you can see all the pieces.

Year one is not in chronological order, unfortunately. Facebook still doesn't let you just sort album by date. But I believe the rest of them are mostly chronological for that year. But regardless, you can. You can not only see all the art, but you can actually see the progressions between years and all the different things I've tried. I mean, I've done jewelry and welding and carving and 3D and, you know.

Obviously, yeah, you've done it all because I remember. Yeah, you've. I think you've showed us this. Some kind of sculpture when you're back in town here in San Diego and how you were talking how you can create something. Because I think you use the iPad, right?

Typically, some of my art was made on the iPad. I haven't actually like literally I haven't touched my iPad and probably a couple years I cracked a screen and didn't feel like I used to do a lot of the drawing on the iPad. I do a lot of stuff on my, on my laptop and I have what's called a wacom tablet. So it's a large panel of plastic and a pen and it's pressure sensitive. So you can paint with it, you can sculpt with it. And.

The thing that you're probably gonna see from me, I don't know if this year or next year, but pretty soon I'm gonna do it just because it's expensive. But there's, there's this foundry. Foundry is a place that most artists use to do their, their bronze sculptures. They just give them a clay sculpture and the foundry does all the backbreaking work of making a bronze.

Yeah.

And so there's this foundry in Tucson, Arizona that you can send them a 3D file and they have a 7 axis CNC robot. So basically a big robotic arm that can get in every nook and cranny and it can carve.

My design out of industrial foam up to 6ft by 10ft. Jesus. And then when that's done, since it looks slightly machined, the they spray it with oil based clay. And then I come in with my carving tools, I blend, I, you know, add detail where it should be. And when it's done, I give them the green light and they make a bronze out of it. So I would love to do like life size, larger than life sculptures. And with this now you can. So you know, something that you designed at Starbucks, you know, all of a sudden is going to be like a ginormous bronze sculpture.

That's pretty impressive. Yeah, I mean, we're not really in the art world so I mean, personally I had no idea that that kind of thing even existed.

Well, I was, and I was thinking, I mean. Cause I know you have, Matt, you have interest in art. I mean you have like skills, sketchbooks over there and like how to draw figures. But I'm just curious because I mean, I remember you telling me this back in the day. That's why I brought the iPad up. But like, what are some easy ways? Because I'm sure a lot of people listening. Yeah, they might be in business, but shit. I mean doing art is like meditative. It is meditation in a way.

Completely.

Yeah.

I'm a very happy person because I get to do this every day. In fact, if I have a If I have a horrible, shitty day, I just, you know, I'm like, well, at least I get to do my art and I kind of can even channel it into a painting.

Right? So, I mean, what would you recommend? Because there's probably some easy ways someone could just maybe get an iPad or get that. I forget the name of the tablet, but.

Depending on the level, if you already have an iPad or an Android, if you already have a tablet of some sort of. Then absolutely, you know, there's, there's a lot of styluses available for them.

And there's a ton of apps.

One that I can recommend that does fantastic oil based clay. Sorry, Oil based painting is art rage. And this is like five bucks. I mean, that's ridiculously cheap. You can't get coffee for that these days. So.

One of the ones I started with on the iPad, like the first one I got, I think was called Paper. And that one is only good for doing like a little light watercolor, ink, pencil, like things that you'd only do on paper. And so it keeps it simple, but it's.

It'S good at what it does. And then there's a lot of people really like Procreate. I like the name. Obviously.

There'S. If you're on the computer, you can get Wacom, that's pronounced. Oh, sorry, that's spelled W A C O M. Go to their website or order it from Amazon, whatever you want. Go to Best Buy. They sell this thing kind of everywhere now. There's.

Whatever level of their product you get will be perfect. Like my, my ex, she got the, you know, like the $100 version and it's great. You know, they're all amazing technology. The. I have the $600 version that's like the Wacom Intuos Pro Paper Edition. That means that I can draw on paper up to a thousand different drawings without the computer. And then when I get within Bluetooth range, it will sync up and those drawings will be there in my computer in a vector format so that I can then blow them up to any size without any loss and then, you know, paint in the details and so on.

No, that's awesome. I actually have a Wacom tablet.

It's called a Bamboo, I think.

Yeah.

And I never, ever got used to, you know, what I did on the tablet showing up on the screen. I was never able to get as detailed and comfortable with it as I wanted to. So I kind of gave up on it a long time ago. And so now with me, I do pretty much, I'm not a big artist. I don't do it every day. It's just from time to time it's like a way to sort of check out and just take my brain off things. But I pretty much just have a notepad with blank pages and a pencil. That's pretty much all I ever use. But I've tried to get into the digital stuff and never managed to get used to it. I actually have a Kindle Fire that I literally bought the Kindle Fire to do drawings with on the Kindle Fire. But there's like too much of a delay between touching the screen and the actual. And it's very, very, very minute. But it's enough that when you're trying to draw accurately, you notice it. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Well, so. So Wacom, Wacom, tomato, tomato, vagina, whatever. The Wacom Wacom is their high end line. Like the really expensive line is called the Cintiq and that it's basically like a monitor, like a flat screen that you draw right on it. And what Matt was talking about with the tablets, like with mine, I'm looking at my screen, but my hand is not drawing on the screen like you would with a piece of paper. I'm drawing on my tablet and the cursor moves on the screen. So it's basically like using a mouse, you know, where you're not looking at the mouse. And so one thing you can do.

There'S an app for the desktop and iPad called Astropad and that turns your Wacom or sorry, that turns your iPad into like a Cintiq.

So you control your computer via your iPad.

What?

And now with the new pencil stylus, which is pressure sensitive and rotation sensitive and all that, you can do some wonderful things. So that, that's a great way to save a couple thousand. And also if you like drawing on paper with a pen.

There'S a pen out there called the livescribe, which is fantastic for recording audio and syncing your. I use it for taking notes at conferences because you're like, why the hell did I write this? And then you just tap on where the words and it will play back the audio that was playing at that time, you know.

Oh.

I think I got that when I think it was John Reese like six years ago or something. I think he like did a VSL or something video sales letter and use that. And Matt and I both bought like the first version. We're like, it's like magic.

Yeah. His sales video was literally him drawing stuff on paper and recording the audio straight into the pen.

Yeah, yeah. And so I had one. I also got forever and I haven't. I just got out of storage and the software doesn't work anymore. Like they don't have a new version to support that. But I'm considering getting a new one A because it's useful for note taking again because you can capture the audio and all that.

But.

The other thing you can do with it is if you draw, you know, you can then bring it into the computer.

Yeah.

Like your notes. So since you said you want more of the digital stuff but you don't like the lag, well, just draw on paper.

Yeah. That actually reminds me of the last time I used that pen. I literally was getting a psychic reading done in Sedona. So I was like, oh, there's the close the Sedona loop there.

I've actually always wanted to get into the digital stuff because I like the idea of just, you know, when I'm traveling or something, having a tablet and I can sort of sketch stuff on the tablet. I just never really got used to using it just. Just because of the delay. And I think part of the problem I had was that I went for the absolute cheapest tablet I could find, which was the Kindle Fire. And that probably wasn't the smartest way if I was to start over. I probably. I mean, this is something I still want to get, but I haven't yet is the iPad Pro just looks frickin phenomenal.

That one looks nice. I do have a little spare iPad at home that I just got. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna definitely try some of these out.

Yeah, definitely. And now your listeners all know completely from A to Z how to get into digital art.

That's awesome.

Yeah, I mean, I want to go back to this whole accountability thing because I think that's. That's a huge. Because it. I don't want to like. Hi. I don't want to just like graze over the fact that you literally said you couldn't really finish anything until. Until you. You put your ass on the line. And I guess talk about how that's like totally shifted your mindset where it's taken you now with your future, like what your future plans are. I don't even know other than the book.

I don't think.

You know, I don't think we all know. But still it's like I want to speak into that accountability and see how that's really changed things.

Absolutely. And, and I'm really glad that one of yalls mics Is like fritzing out a little bit just.

So. It's just on occasion, anyways. So, yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up because.

You know, yeah, sure, I want to get the word out about my book and all that stuff, but I don't really care about that much. One of the things that I do care about, maybe it's just me getting old, wiser. Well, older anyways, is that.

You know, I just. I want to make more of a difference. And the. I've gone through so much that the lessons are. Are definitely helpful for people. And so the accountability is probably the biggest lesson that I can share on anything because it really applies to everything.

It's. Finishing things for myself has been difficult for other people. I mean, like, doing things for other people has never been an issue. I kind of have a little bit of a superhero complex, so I like to save the day. And I've got a lot of skills. I've done everything in Internet marketing. When I created Make WordPress Easy, I created the course. I did the VSL, I got my own affiliates, I did my own tech support, I set up the affiliate system. You know, I did kind of every aspect of it, and it did really well. The only part that I was having a hard time with was finishing the course. And Kate Buck Jr. Had a course called let's Get Social, which Perry Belcher and Ryan Dice of Digital Marketer had eventually. It was actually like their. Their guinea pig for what their publishing model could look like. And so because I helped Kate create it.

She. She was constantly saying, like, hey, when's your course going to be done so I can mail it? When's your course going to be done so I can mail it? And, you know, I'd even done a couple of modules.

In my own name, like in her. In her course. Like, I did a little WordPress module so that people could, you know, make their own websites and such. And so Kate was not constantly, but occasionally I'm asked about it. And I mean, that's a great problem to have someone with a large list you know, nagging you to, when can I mail your product already? Usually we all have the opposite problem. It's like, hey, will you mail for me? It's a really good product, I promise you. And here I had people waiting to mail before even knowing the product would be great or not. I mean, they know me, so they figured it'd be good. Sure. But so, yeah, that was the case. And so I initially, I created the product. This created light accountability in that I Posted. Hey.

I'm gonna make a, you know, a WordPress product. Who wants in? It's gonna be cheaper now and you can be there as I record it and get, you know, I was gonna basically drip feed the content and then six months into it I was like, you know, wait a minute, let me actually view my, my product. Like, let me see what it's like for the people on the other end. I watched it and it bought bored the shit out of me. I was like, screw this. So I scrapped it. I started from scratch where I spoke much faster.

I scripted it out instead of just talking about each thing. And no, you can watch me do this, this and this. No, it was fun and I took out all the ums and uhs and I added fun animations and graphics for like everything. And now it was exciting. In fact, I even had a testimonial from a nine year old girl that has one hand and is making WordPress sites with my course.

Wow, that's cool.

Belcher said, you don't even need your vsl, you just need that video and a buy button and you'll sell like you still let.

But yeah, it was because of Kate that she finally sat me down. So with accountability, another super power is specificity. Because she's like, well, when are you going to get done? I'm like, oh, pretty soon. She's like, well, what soon? Like a month? I'm like, oh, I don't know. She's like, well, how much is left? You know, just a couple modules. She's like, how many? And I went and counted and it was actually like, I think 11 more videos that need to be done. And now I saw that, hey, it's only 11. And now I could also assign how long it would take because before I was just blowing it off, I, I think how many? So I got that done and you know, life changed because all of a sudden I went from being basically homeless to like having disposable income to go do whatever, whenever, at least for a bit. And the next use of accountability was with.

And this one actually ties into the daily art. I'll tell you why in a second. Getting six pack ABs.

Out of the blue in July. I get this thought in my head, huh?

I've never had six pack abs. Like I've lifted weights before, but I've never actually had like defined abs. I'm going to do it. And so I post on Facebook, hey, it's July. By my birthday in December, I'm going to have six pack abs. And so to Stay accountable. I was posting pictures of me with no shirt and a picture to scale every week. Like once a week between July and December. And you know, initially it sucked because I did not like the way I looked. So I definitely didn't want to post those pictures. But that really motivated me to make sure that each week's picture looked better than the previous week's picture. Otherwise I would hear about it.

Oh yeah.

And because people are watching it, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't like go and cheat and all that stuff. Although I didn't need to cheat. I was. Another important lesson from my life is find a fun way to do things. Because there's a lot of ways to do things and most of them suck, but there's a way that works for you. So for getting six pack abs, I went and found this crazy diet called carb backloading, which I call my ice cream and candy diet because it's five days, no carbs, and then three days of Ben and Jerry's no carbs in the morning, then you have your hard workout at night, and then you have a four hour window to spike your insulin. Now that could be just eat a sweet potato and have a cup of apple juice, but it didn't specify exactly. So I would have each of those three nights two pints of ice cream, two large energy drinks, and four bags of candy. And of course I'd post pictures of this online each one of those nights just to fuck with people. And everyone's like, you're gonna have a heart attack, you're gonna die, you're gonna be so fat. All this stuff. And I actually shredded up. And so come December, I actually hit my goal. For the first time in my life, you could actually see the shape of my abs. And I still don't recognize those photos, to tell you the truth. Wow, who is that? And.

The thing is, so I hit my goal and so I called my friends. I'm like, hey, let's go out for margarita as an ice cream cake. And yeah, I didn't go work out that day because it was my birthday. I hit my goal and next day I was a little hungover and I was like, you know, God, it's kind of nice taking a couple days off. I've worked out so hard for the last half a year. And then two and a half later, two and a half years later, I'm like, I'm fat. And so with my art.

I don't let a single day go by because I don't want one day to turn into two and a half years and. And then going back to what I was saying about accountability, it was that accountability that they kept me in line, that kept me working out despite the days where I really didn't feel like it. And once I realized that, you know, I knew it could apply to other things. So that when I was like, okay, I really hate this feeling of heartbreak, how can I not ever go through that again? But, you know, at least when it comes to, like, not following my purpose and all that stuff, I was like, well, I'm just going to use accountability because it's worked in the past and clearly it's still working well.

It's like you're channeling it in the, in the places you want. You said it's got to be fun, something you actually give a shit about, you know?

Absolutely. Oh, my God, absolutely. And, you know, a lot of people ask me about, like, so, you know, what would have happened if you, you didn't take those 10 years off, you know, like, if my art show had gone just fine. And I'm really glad that it did, because I never even knew that that was, like, my purpose.

It was that not having that for so long that made me realize it. And also not having done it for so long gave me chance to do other things and try other things. That's why I got into marketing. And so I can say that.

You know, I thankfully succeeded as a marketer before I succeeded as an artist. You know, you say artists, most people think, oh, so where are you a waiter at?

Right?

You know, starving artists, you gotta have a whole bunch of other jobs and all that stuff.

You know, March's bills were completely paid for 100% by selling art. And.

That was. Now I've done websites along the way and I still do website work for.

I only have, like two clients that I've kept because they're awesome and because it keeps my skills sharp. And I, you know, regardless of that.

I don't love WordPress. Like, I love doing my art, otherwise I'd probably still be running make WordPress easy. But I still believe that WordPress is an amazing tool. I think that everyone should be able to create a website, not pay out the nose for someone else to do it. I mean, you can obviously pay someone to it, but you should definitely know how it works so that you can communicate with that person and not be taken advantage of, etc. And also when dealing, you know, in regards to what you said about that, you gotta love it and all that stuff. One way for doing Something that you don't love is to find something that you do love about it. Like, yeah, I don't love WordPress. Like, I love art, but oh my God, is it an amazing way to change people's lives? You know, like, you teach. A bunch of my students quit their jobs and became web designers instead. Like, they were making. You know, I. One. One guy was when. When I taught how to sell websites. That was a separate course I did as an upgrade for my people make selling websites easy. I taught that one. I got a note from one of my students. He said he was actually, right before Christmas, he got an eviction notice. And, you know, he didn't have money and he didn't know how to tell the wife and kids that, hey, we're gonna be evicted and there's no money for presents this year. And he used the last of what he had on his credit card to sign up. I was like, hey, sign up now and you can be in this live, you know, while we record it, ask you questions, all that stuff, and you get it cheaper than the people who are gonna have to buy it later. So he used the last of his credit card. He got that course.

Just the first two weeks content. And he went, he was at this party and he started talking to people and he sold 7, $500 worth of websites at that party just by having conversations, what I taught. And. And you know, they didn't get evicted. Took the wife to the spa, got the kids an Xbox and a bicycle. And, you know, and then he told me about it. He's like, yeah, dude, like, I made more in that one party than I did in the last three months of working my ass off. And.

I was like, why didn't you just. I would have given you the course for free if I knew you were like, that bad off. It's like. But he told me afterwards and I was like, you know, got all misty eyed. So. So, yeah, you know, I. The. The ability, I found the thing that I was passionate about, which is changing lives if I can. And, and you know, obviously you've changed a lot of lives with your WordPress course and with your. With the Evergreen Profits podcast and community. You. You guys put out a ton of great content, which I'm sure has changed a lot of lives.

Thanks, man. Yeah, I mean, that's why I think we're both. We do similar stuff. I mean, we pump out content. Like. Yeah, I mean, you pump out more art than we're doing content. But we're almost on pace. We do like three A week.

Hey, I consider my content my art.

I'm not dissing it, man.

No, I know.

And you know, there's plenty of artists out there and there's plenty of people creating marketing content. And you know, you gotta do what you gotta be you. And that's, that's what I think makes it, makes it stand out that that is where it does become art. You are, you guys are creating art. Your, your podcasts are fun to listen to. Your, your content is like the reading stuff is, is fun to read it present in a friendly, easy to consume voice. And it doesn't feel like you guys are just shoving affiliate links down our throat. And in fact you're even honest about it. My goal is for when you read this that you will click on the little affiliate link at the bottom. Like you say that and, and you guys do really helpful stuff. And I know the behind the scenes, you know, I've hung out Yalls office and with, with Dan and all those guys. And you know, I, I know how much content you guys actually consume and how much high end stuff you, you receive and how you break it down for people. I mean, I think people just think that you guys just know all this stuff. But like that's what you guys are doing is you're taking really, really advanced stuff and you're breaking it down into easy to consume, easy to understand chunks. And that is absolutely an art and a great favor to humanity.

I appreciate that. That's really awesome that you say that and I'm glad we have it on recording because now I'm gonna plaster that quote everywhere I could find. No, wait, as long as it's got.

A backlink, I'm cool with that.

Hell yeah.

Well, so I have one last question here about the art and the marketing and how they're tied together. So right now you're obviously doing your art every day and you're earning income from your art. How. How are you making that happen? How are you actually earning off of your art right now?

Well, funny enough, that actually is how I'm doing it. I'm just posting my art every day and people are like, hey, can I buy that one? Which, which is technically okay marketing and that I'm creating content and I have, but it's actually terrible marketing and that I don't have a URL for them to just go and buy. I did. And then.

I'm just too creative for my own good. So it's like, oh, now I can do it this way. And this way I keep changing what the Website is or should be and all that. Now, of course, that like Odin being an artist, changing all that. And now there's gonna definitely be a definitive spot where you can go to the artofori.com and buy that.

To tie in marketing. I'm going after it with a vengeance now and I'm really gonna make a splash. And how I'm doing that is what I mentioned earlier, some firewall viral marketing, which is I'm going with up viral. I really loved the interview you guys had with Travis Ketchum about contest domination. But the thing that kind of broke my heart a little bit is that you have to do.

Their $80 a month and they bill annually. So basically a thousand dollars if you want to be able to use retargeting pixels and conference information. Pixels. Because I'm definitely going to be running ads to this.

So I'm going to be running ads. I'm reaching out to some friends with lists because I'm not really selling anything. I mean technically I'll be selling the art book, but it's more of an inspirational story that you know about what happens when you find out your purpose and when you do it every single day for seven years. And.

Obviously it's just a cool book and good art and all that stuff. And so I'm having a lot of people mail to the contest, which is contest.theartofori.com and I'll be giving away a custom 40 inch by 70 inch painting. Whatever you want painted. So that's basically.

Like a huge painting that you can hide behind if you want. I charge, I charge about 50, $200 for one of those, like for custom, between 2 and 3 grand for the ones that are not custom. If you don't have that kind of wall space, I can paint you something smaller, maybe even two things. I'll be giving away a couple of the. The books themselves. Right now it's at 183 pages. I think the final one is going to be about 200. 250 pages. Nice thick pages, collector's box, all that fun stuff.

I want to put that. Something like that. I'm just imagining. I look at it like, I want that on the coffee table.

Oh, absolutely.

Stereotypical art book, you know, But a good one.

Absolutely. And it will be personally autographed by the artist.

Yeah.

And I mean, I had a friend.

Back in the day, back when I was living in South Florida. She lived like literally four minutes away. So she would come and do her lunch every day at home. And so I would Just come over for lunch and would watch, like, Jerry Springer and Aqua Teen Hunger Force and just hang out, and it was fun. But what I remember, she had this, like, amazing coffee table book. The Hotel La Chapelle by David LaChapelle is a photographer, shoots a lot of celebrities, and he's really creative and really fun. Personality stuff. And just about every single time I'd come over there, like, regardless of how many times I've already been there and how many times I've seen this book, I'd always flip through it. It was just really cool images, and I'd always find something new. And.

I think it's the case with this.

Even though this is my own art, I go flipping through it and I see new stuff all the time. And.

I just did something that's really difficult. I now have so much more respect for homeless people because I was like, oh, I'll just take my book and show it to random people on the street and get their reactions. But it's actually kind of tough to go up to people who are busy having their day, whatever they're doing with their friends or family or themselves, and all of a sudden, like, a stranger goes up to them, and you get the look of death. And it's like, you know, you gotta interrupt what they're doing and ask them. And it's like, hey, I'm an artist. I've been doing a new work of art every single day for 2,156 days. You know, I'm actually gonna be putting out our book. Don't worry, I'm not selling anything. You can't even buy my book right now, even if you want to. Can. Can I just show it to you, get your reaction, see what you think? Some people don't want to be on the on video. Other people are just like, yeah, I like that. It's cool.

And funny enough, the.

I've met some really awesome people. Because of it, I've now connected to on Facebook. And, you know, it went well, but it was really difficult. You know, I. I had no clue. Yeah, so that's. That's a form of marketing that I don't necessarily recommend for everyone.

Well, you. You have some. You just have, like, a special knack with people telling stories. I mean, like, that's like you at a conference, and obviously, you know, the guys that even hold the conference, tnc. But it's like, everyone knows you. You have, like, a costume on or something. I mean, it's like you're always flocked. So it's like you're doing something right. So, I mean, your kind of marketing is what works for you.

Your personal brand is definitely out there. People, you, people see you. You know, you're the type of guy that from across the room, everybody's like, oh, worry's over there. Because you're probably wearing a Superman cape and you've got big hair, dude.

Yeah. I recently had a couple of random strangers stop me and tell me that I have very luxurious hair.

It's a new one.

It's hilarious. You know the thing you said about, like, the conferences. Yeah, it's absolutely true, you know, but one year I went to traffic and conversion. Isn't it in the early years when it was still in Austin, I believe. And I was like, oh, well, you know. Yeah, I showed up before, like, my zebra striped bathrobe and little furry top hat. And you know what? I'm just gonna look like a human being this year. And so I got a suit, I got a haircut. And right at the very start of it, they're like, all right, well, this is, this is our schedule. You know the thing they always say to their schedule, but it's kind of a joke, actually. I guess now they don't say that.

No, it's not.

But at the time I was like, yeah, there's our schedule agenda for the thing. But that's mostly a joke, just so we have one. But is there anything that you do want us to cover? And I'm standing, I'm sitting in the back, I'm raising my hand, and my hand's getting tired. Like, I have to switch left hand, right hand, left hand, right hand. Until finally Ryan calls on me. A mic runner brings me a mic and say, yeah, hey, are you guys gonna cover? I don't remember what I was asking. And Ryan's like, wait, wait a minute. Is that. Is that Ori? Like, wait, where's your zebra stripe bathrobe? Who are you? And where's the thing? And then Perry's like, wait, wait, I know, I know. You got. You got a badger in your pocket and it's gonna come out.

The one time I try not to look goofy or do anything stupid, it got me more attention than being goofy.

Yeah, you started to blend in.

A reputation to uphold.

Yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's. It's a fun reputation because it's basically.

Another podcast I, I did this week to ask me like, who, who would you. Who alive would you want to have, like, lunch with? And I said, Richard Branson. Because other than the fact that he's so badass. He's had to be rescued more than 11 times by helicopter because of doing dumb shit like hot air ballooning and getting, you know, stuck in here there. Which I think is awesome. Oh, yeah, he's got a sense of humor, you know, and, and he's a billionaire by not only having, like, good business sense, but by being a good person having a sense of humor. That's, that's where he really stands out. Like British Airways played really dirty trying to put him out of business. Like, like disgustingly dirty. And, and so they had this, this brand new airplane that was gonna take off. They got all the press there, and the front wheel wouldn't get back into the thing it's supposed to. And so all the press is sitting there waiting. British Airways embarrassed. And Branson was there, so he texted his people and had an airship, a blimp show up and with a banner that says BA can't get it up and fly it over their plane while all the news is there.

Yes, that is awesome.

Is awesome. I mean, I'd love to keep chatting on this and we'll probably have to have around two with you. We will. Just because I think the three of us have so much that we could keep talking about.

We'll do that after the contest.

Yeah, let's see how that actually would be a great case. Case study, see how the contest went, see how your book sold, all that kind of stuff. But speaking of books, we're going to link up to the contest and the book and all that kind of stuff in the show notes. Are there any books that you personally have taken a lot from that have been very, very impactful on your business or your life?

Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, first of all, and I kind of mentioned this earlier, but I'll reiterate now that we're on the point, I'm more of an audiobook person. And so for your listeners, they probably are too, because they're listening.

Probably true.

For the readers of your transcripts are.

I would say, find your learning modality. A lot of us were just told to read books, but we don't realize that that may not be our modality, our way of consuming it. That works for us.

So a lot of these are audiobooks I'm actually reading. I've had one of my art collectors just recommended this one for me, so I can't tell you yet, but that it's impacted my life, but I'm told it will. It's called Rocket Fuel. And Rocket Fuel is about how visionaries the crazy goofy people like me that have great ideas like non stop and can definitely think outside the proverbial box, but implementing things is kind of a bitch. And then you got the integrators who are the people who love numbers and love organization and love follow through and follow up. And so it's like, how can two of you find each other, work with each other and not strangle each other? Yeah. And I mean, that, that's not like exactly their subtitle, but that's how the person described it to me. So I'm looking to read that one.

That's a good one. I recommend that for you because. Yeah, that's. I think you would, you'd do well if you had some, someone who just like was your implementer for whatever you're trying to do.

Dude, that's the wet dream right now. Finding that person. And they're out there. They're. You know, I actually, I have a person who's gonna be running my ads for, for this contest because.

I did an unveiling at a, at a friend's wedding. This guy and myself with. We both work with this guy. He runs his ads, I do their web stuff. And so I know he does good work. And he saw my book and he was just like, holy shit. I kept the book in the parking lot. It was a wedding. It was about those people, not about me. So I unveiled the painting, but I kept my book in the parking lot. And so this guy is looking at the book and he's like, holy shit. He's like, I know you probably don't want to talk about it, but if you, if you need help marketing this, I would love. This stuff is amazing. This stuff should be everywhere. I said, actually, I absolutely want to talk about the wedding. So he's gonna be working with me on that. And I definitely want to read this book before I start doing that so I don't screw it up.

I'll give you one tip on reading quicker. I've been starting to use this because I'm kind of like you, where I just kind of like lose track of reading in a book. Go to flashbook summaries or just Google that Flash book and it's like 30 minute summaries of books like this.

And it's okay.

It's solid.

A book that. I'll give you a couple of books. I mean, obviously that, that one I just announced because it was right in front of me, like literally. But one of the ones that.

Because I've listened to so many audiobooks, and while I was couch surfing, I literally would be driving for between four hours and 20 hours a day. Very often I would just have audiobooks on the whole time. And.

So, you know, I've lost track of what I got from what one book. But definitely, like, just consume as many books as you can. Audiobooks are great for this because you can do it while you're driving, while you're working out, while you're doing whatever.

The. Some of my first ones. This is when I discovered audiobooks, when Friends and Influence People was a great one.

I haven't listened to in a long, long, long time because it's, you know, it's written in the 1930s and you have to play a double speed because it's slow and all that, but it. It's a life changer.

That's a good.

The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. I have had this on my phone for about eight years. I think, like, regardless of which phone I've had this. This migrates with me. It's my in case of glass, sorry, in case of emergency brake glass book I try to listen to at least once a year if, If I'm ever in a slump, like I'm just not feeling productive or I. I break that book out. It's. It's a very fast read. Listen, whatever. And it's kind of about beating procrastination. It's about making sure that you actually complete the things that you set out to do. And yeah, I'm actually hoping to get a forward from Steven Pressfield for my book because.

Well, because what I said, I mean.

Everything Steven Pressfield has put out too, you know, going pro and nobody wants to read your shit. All of his nonfiction work, I can't speak to his fiction works. I've never actually read any of it. But all of his nonfiction work are some of my favorite book. So I love that recommendation.

Yeah.

Product Launch formula is just a good one. I don't know if I'd call it a book, but John did put it as a book called Launch or Sorry, Jeff.

And I haven't read Launch, but I've been through PLF a couple times and that's just. That's just good. Oh, one. One read that will absolutely transform your life is the Evergr Greens profits everything by them. Those guys are just.

Yeah, man.

You know, all these things, all they offer you is a filter. A filter to view the world with. Right. We talked about accountability. I. Everything that I now I go to, you know, I'll go to Little Concert and I Watch a musician go, wow, that's amazing. You know, damn, I have a guitar. But, like, I never really did anything with it. I'd love to play like that. Now I don't just go, oh, I only wish. Now I go, okay, I bet I could get. Probably not that good, but. But good enough to where I could do stuff on YouTube. Impressive friends, you know, have fun at a party, whatever, and also zen out and just have the personal satisfaction of being able to play songs. You know, if I do this for a year, one hour a day, I bet I could be, like, pretty damn good within a year.

Dude. That's why. That's why the office, you know, that we share with Dan that we are rarely in, but that's why it's, like, surrounded with instruments. Like, you got drums, basses, guitars, keyboards.

Last time I was there, I came and played some Van Halen for you.

Yeah, that was beautiful.

But it's, you know, it's just. It wasn't about instruments or that statement. It was about anything that you see, you know, that with proper accountability and proper discipline and willpower, you can actually complete it and you can actually do that. And the same thing applies to marketing. It's. It's a filter to see life with, right? Anyone can do a publish on demand, print on demand book and put it on Amazon, and you don't even have to print it. Let them, like, deal with it through, create space or whatever. But, you know, how are you going to get a couple thousand sales? How are you gonna put it on, you know, and with. With anything you do? Like, I don't. Yeah, I make art, but I often think, okay, how many. How am I gonna move this right? When. When I. When I want to do that, I can. And a lot of. A lot of artists starve. A lot of restaurateurs go out of business because they don't know how to run a business. I think. I think marketing is about the most important skill that you can have as a person. It's an absolute superpower. You can change your life, and you can absolutely change the lives of just about every. Anyone you talk to. Because we're in this inbred circle of marketers, and we just start thinking, everyone knows this stuff. And you go talk to, like, some real people and. And you're like, how the hell are you even still in business?

Like, I look at most businesses that way.

What was that?

I look at most businesses that way. You're like, wow, how have you survived for this long? Long? Or are you going to survive Any longer. You know, it's. You're right, though.

I'm helping a charity right now with the same stuff. I was like, what are you guys doing? No, and I. I feel bad because it's the guy's, you know, personal dream. And. And I'm. I'm now reshaping it, and now it's. It's. It's not. Not creepy, but almost everybody's like, yeah, dude, just show me the way. You know, it's like, just tell me what to do. Like. Like. Like, look at me. Like some kind of savior, kind of messiah kind of person.

Well, you are to them, man. So you're changing lives, and you're. You're gonna, you know, give them just a tremendous amount of value.

You guys are changing way more lives than me. Hey, hey, hey.

That's not true.

You're debatable for sure. You're doing it through art.

So we have our. We all have our own art we're putting out.

But no, it's. It's a great reminder that, you know, we always sort of forget how much we know when it comes to business and marketing and that sort of thing.

And.

And you're right. It is. It is a skill set that most people on earth don't have. But we do get stuck in our own bubble of thinking that, oh, everybody's already building a list. Everybody's already, you know, posting content on social media to grab attention. We just assume that stuff's happening by businesses because we're so immersed in it all the time. But really, most people outside of our bubble, that's, you know, that's genius to them, right? So it's definitely a great reminder. But, you know, we. We do have to. We do have to sort of cut this.

Actually one of our longer episodes we've done, but it's. It's been amazing discussion. We'll definitely do a round two. But our final question is, where do you want to send people after listening to this episode? What's. What's kind of that final call to action that you want to make sure people go and do when they. When they tune into this?

What do I want to send them to? My house. My address is 231 5. No, get out. It's gonna be a big book launch party. We're all gonna squeeze in here. You know, first, I highly recommend my personal Facebook because that's the most fun. I don't just post my art on there, but also, like, the random that happens to me and my horrible jokes. The other day I broke up A dog fight, like, not intentional. It just was about to happen. I didn't want the dogs to die while I was dog sitting them. And I. My life plays out like an action comedy. I mean, come on. Bull poker. Enough said. Yeah. So that's facebook.comforward/orey. That's O R I dot Bengal. B E N G A L. I'd appreciate some likes at Facebook. The Artofori on Instagram. The Art of Ori on Twitter. The Art of Ori. But I never actually used Twitter because, I mean, come on, I'm one of your longest episodes. I don't like 140 characters or 280, whatever it's at now. I used to. But yeah, Facebook is a place. And obviously theartofori.com right now I've taken away all options other than to enter my. You know, to opt in, to be notified when. When the contest goes live, which is going to be April 22nd, the start of year seven.

And as I said before, if you go to. If you'd like to see the art. Theartofori.com Year 6, Year 5, Year 4, Year 3, Year 2, and Year 1, and very soon in April, Year 7.

Yeah, yeah.

Awesome. Well, we'll make sure to link all of that stuff up in the show notes so people can't miss you.

And definitely let us know in that contest. I see it's in about 31 days, but I mean, that's something we'd be. We'd be happy to let people know about. Definitely push. Because, I mean, you just do great stuff and we like it.

You guys should enter it too, man. For sure.

We definitely will.

I love that you're doing the contest, so it's good. We got to wrap it up, though. I'm going to keep talking, but yeah, man, have a good day. Thank you so much, dude.

Thank you, guys. It's an honor.

All right, man.

All right, man.

Talk to you soon.

Bye.

All right, thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our game guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training, and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com. so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review.

You.

You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.