Phil Town — Finding Undervalued Stocks To Create Financial Freedom

Boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and flowchart podcast from evergreenprofits.com My name is Matt Wolf. I'm here with my co host and business partner, Joe Fear. Joe Fear. And it is our job, it is our mission with this podcast and our consulting and our blog and everything we do to show people that there's a better way in life. There's so many people, so many people that we know that are stuck in dead end jobs that they hate and we hear them bitch about it and complain and we have to sit there and try to hammer into their heads, look, there are other paths in life. You don't have to work eight hours a day. You don't have to work 40 hours a week. You don't have to work for that two weeks of vacation every year. You can actually create time freedom. You can actually create income freedom. And it is our mission to bring people on this show or, or do due duet episodes between me and Joe where we show you new avenues to go down, new ways to achieve this, new ways to accomplish this. And I think we're starting to do a pretty damn good job with this mission. And I couldn't be more pumped about what we're trying to achieve here. And today we've got another killer guest. This is actually one of my favorite episodes we've recorded so far with a guy named Phil Town. And Phil Town is a. Oh, he's pointing to me, I'm pointing to you to like pick up where I left off. Gotcha.

I gotcha. Phil's amazing. I'm just gonna say that as a person, as an investor, just as just a human being, super, very, very generous man. Great in person, great on this podcast. We had the pleasure of meeting him a couple months back at a mastermind in San Diego. He's a three times New York Times bestselling author. Three times New York Times best selling author. Yes, true story. Longtime investor, value investor, massive student and connected with Warren Buffet, Charlie Munger, and it has a variety of books invested. This is the newest one that he actually co authored with his daughter, which is a really cool tale. We'll get into it towards the end of the episode of why this is really important, why everyone listening right now, even if you have invested, but like if you're just thinking about it, you got to grab this book. Invested. It's amazing. There's so many takeaways. You're going to learn the four key things that. That Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger use for every single investment they go into. And it's not rocket science. I was able to jot it down as we were listening to him and reference that the entire podcast. So I would definitely recommend you doing the same. Obviously not if you're driving, but this, this is gonna blow your mind.

Yeah. We're also gonna touch on cryptocurrency and like his. His philosophy on cryptocurrency, we dive into the marijuana industry a little bit, whether that's a good investment or not.

So.

So lots of. We cover a lot of ground here, but the way Phil explains it just makes it so easy and so accessible. And before we dive in, one last little mention that I want to say here is if you are interested in consulting and learning more from us and being advised on your business so we can show you these better ways that we're talking about, feel free to reach out. Go to evergreenprofits.com consulting. There's a little application form. It'll take you two minutes and we'll see if you're a good fit. And we love chatting with people. We love finding new angles, new ways to look at your business. But do that after the show because this is some good stuff and we want you to pay attention. So let's go ahead and dive in with Phil Town.

All right. Phil it is.

Hey, Phil. Thanks so much for joining us today. How you doing?

Really good, man. It's good to see you guys again.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. We did a little quick camera shot right before here, but. Yeah, well, we met back in San Diego.

Yeah, we met in San Diego. What's it been now?

A couple months ago, ish, the speakeasy.

Event, and we were. You gave a little talk there and we were just really blown away by the stuff you had to say because Joe and I, we both know we should be putting a little more time and focus into doing some investing type things. But we just not making the time yet. So it's definitely a topic that we are hot on and that we want to learn more about. So we're super excited to dive in and chat about this stuff today.

All right, well, let's do it.

Yeah, man. Well, I guess for the folks who don't know you, which they should, what's the quick. Let's give them a minute or so, a little background of kind of where you came from and where you're at now.

Okay. Well, I was a river guide in the Grand Canyon, and one of the people I was rowing down the river is an investor. And long story short, I nearly killed the guy in Crystal Rapids.

Oh, geez.

And didn't. And then he said, you saved my life. And I told him, yeah, I saved your life. That's exactly what I said.

We'll leave it at that.

And he said, man, I really owe you, and I want to teach you to invest. And of course, I'm a blue collar guy out of the army, and I had no interest in making money. I had no interest in learning about investing, and I didn't have any money anyway, so I kind of just blew him off. But that winter.

I had a teepee up in Flagstaff, and I was freezing my butt off up there. I remembered this guy lived in La Jolla, California.

Oh, yes.

And it was November, and flag is really cold in November. So I called him up and said, hey, I'd be interested in talking with you. Whatever. Can I come get warm? He said, yeah, come on down there. And so I spent two weeks with him, and at the end of that time, he had convinced me that I should apprentice to him and learn how to be an investor in the style of Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, which had made this guy wealthy. So I got all caught up in it, and I worked for him for a year, and then I went on my own, and I started with about 1,000 bucks, and five years later, I had about a million and a half. And then I started just branching out from there and wrote a book about it and then started speaking about it. And next thing I know, I'm teaching other people how to do this thing. We started doing that with One class in June 2009 was our first class we ever did. Mm. We did it in Singapore, where my wife got arrested for having bullets in her luggage.

Oh, my God. That sounds like a fun story.

That's a whole nother story.

But we started with that kind of inauspicious beginning, and now we teach. This year, we'll teach over 15,000 people live.

Wow.

How to do this style of investing. So.

Wow.

Yeah. It's really kind of taken off, taking a life of its own.

Yeah. And I know that's what, like a three day kind of intensive or workshop event. That way you kind of tour it around.

That's right. And you guys are coming, right?

I just saw the dates, actually. I was like, oh, this month? Okay. I gotta be there.

That's the plan. So what's the. If somebody wants to learn more about that. Where can they go to find out and go to one of your events?

Well, unfortunately the events get filled up so fast that we don't spend any time really putting them out on the website or anything. So about the only thing you can do is go over to rule1investing.com and just kind of follow the links to the next workshop that'll kind of tell you about it.

I think I was clicking around and it's on the about page last time I saw.

Yeah, I mean we really need some work on that.

It's a nice looking site. Doesn't matter though, you're doing good things either way. Very cool.

Well, can you sort of define what the Buffett and Munger style of investing is compared to? You know, I'm not even familiar with other styles of investing that well. So what would be a description of Buffett and Munger style investing?

Well, let me start with this. What everyone else does, which is virtually 99% of people managing money and completely what's taught in every college is something called modern portfolio theory which basically says that the market is by and large rational, that people operate in their own self interest and they're not going to do something stupid like sell a stock worth $200 for $100. They're just not going to do that. And as a result, and because the market is comprised mostly of professionals who are managing money, as a result the market prices everything right. In other words, the value of the business is the price that's on it. And if you want to make, if you want to try to beat the market, it's a fool's game because if everything is priced properly, that means that it's always adjusting for whatever the latest news is. And it's a 5050 bet whether it's going to go up or down. In other words, the price is going to move up until it's a 5050 bet that it could go back down or it's going to move down to where it's a 5050 bet whether it's going to go up. So it's always adjusting to that 5050 level. And which means putting money in the stock market is just basically it's like a random system, like a roulette wheel or something. The only way you can invest is to put your money into a broadly diversified index exchange traded funds, broad mutual funds, diversify across everything because you don't know what's going to be good and what's going to be bad down the road and everything is already priced in for everything that's anybody knows gonna happen. And that's the only way to do it. And then you have to accept a reasonably low rate of return in exchange for the almost certain thing that's gonna happen, which is if you stay in it long enough, you will make a lot of money. And that is what's taught everywhere. You guys, that's modern portfolio theory. Everybody believes that the securities Exchange Commission operates on that basis. Only problem is, it's total bullshit. It absolutely isn't true. And it's just, it's been repeated so much and it has so many nice qualities to it that allow fund managers to have an excuse for why they don't beat the market. You know, they don't beat the market because you can't beat the market. All right, so here, here's Warren Buffett and a contrast. He and Charlie Munger have slaughtered the stock market for the last 50 years. $10,000 invested in the stock market back when Buffett started would be worth about $400,000 today. And that same $10,000 invested with Buffett would be worth something like $200 million. Just insane thing that they've done. And what they've done is teach other people how to do this insane thing. And it turns out that it's simple. It doesn't mean it's easy, but it's simple. And it boils down to just four things. Number one, be sure you're capable of understanding the business that you're going to buy and only buy a few of them. Okay, you're not going to buy 100 things, you're going to buy 10.

So be sure you understand it. Second, be sure that it has a quality that makes it durable like it can. Competition is very difficult against this company for some reason. If it's a railroad, it's got railroad tracks. You want to compete with my railroad, you got to put in railroad tracks. Except you can't because of all the restrictions. So it's got some durable competitive advantage. Third, it's got people who run it who have integrity and talent. And that's one of the hardest things to find, is people with integrity, talent. Often, you know, there's an old saying that if you, if you are trying to hire somebody, you want one, you want to make sure that they're really talented, really driven, and really smart. And you got to make, you know, hopefully they don't have two out of three of those.

That's right.

They don't have a integrity. Right. If they don't have integrity and they're really smart. That could be a really big problem if they're highly driven.

That's right.

So you want. You want people who have integrity and talent, and then you want to buy it on sale, which means you have to know what it's worth. And that's what they teach. They've been teaching that for 60 years. And people who learn that, including the handful of fund managers who operate in this way, have made absolute fortunes. I can literally say billions and billions, Billions of dollars. And so, you know, that's how I started off. And I'm not. I'm not a big investor, and I didn't raise a lot of money and work with other people. So I'm, you know, only. I'm only a little bit rich, but I'm comfortable.

Sure.

And I get to play polo a lot.

You know, I was going to say, I know you have a ranch. It's beautiful. You have horses?

Yeah, we've got 42 horses. Oh, excuse me. We have 43 horses. We just had another one born last night. Congratulations.

Did you assist the birth yourself or.

You know, I sleep right through those things pretty much. My wife does it and she tried calling me and I slept through the phone call, too.

That's good.

I love them when they're finally done out of the oven.

Well, those are. No, those four points are massive. And just to kind of reiterate. Yeah. Is understanding the business and, you know, looking about, what, 10 of them? You said not a. Not a boatload. The second thing, quality, Something durable, like a railroad or a brick and mortar. It sounds like that has some competitive advantage.

Right.

And yeah. The third, integrity in the people, talent. And then fourth, buy it on sale after knowing it's worth as well.

Yep. Yeah. And knowing what it's worth is really. Man, it's so simple. We do it the same way that I would go look at the value of a house that I wanted to buy, you know, not. I'm not going to look at the house and say, oh, well, I'm going to buy it and hope that somebody comes along and pays me a lot more. Right. I'm not going to flip that house kind of thing. I'm not that kind of an investor. I'm much too conservative for that. I'm too scared of losing money. What I'm going to do is I'm going to look at this place and say, how much will that rent for right now? And typically, you know, if I'm looking at something like that, there's a tenant in it. I'm going to find out what the rent is, what the expenses are. And I'm going to find out what I would put in my pocket at the end of the year, right after I pay the property taxes and everything. So that thing that I'm putting in my pocket, we call that owner earnings. And I want to buy that house. You're going to laugh because you're in California. I want to buy that house at 10 times the money I'm going to get in the first year. So if I'm going to put $50,000, that's pretty high, let's say $30,000 goes in my pocket net after taxes, insurance and property management and everything, then I want to pay $300,000 for that house. And of course, you guys are living in a place where that's pretty much impossible.

Right?

I live in a place where it's totally doable.

Yeah.

Out here in the east you can, like down south of Atlanta you can pick up homes. A lot of homes are available at what the real estate guys call a 10 cap. Right. Effectively a 10% yield. If you paid all cash for the, for the house, you'd have a 10% yield. Day one you'd be getting 10% on your money.

Right.

And then of course you're going to raise rents and gradually that'll go up. Well, what we understand is that's a very, very good deal if you can pay all cash and get 10% on it. Right. Now, you know, you want to do those as long as it's a good house. Right.

Okay. We buy companies that same way. Got it. And the difference with real estate and us is that you're living in California, you're not going to find that deal, but you can get that deal in the stock market all the time.

Interesting. Okay.

Because the market fluctuates. It's so much more violent and volatile than the real estate market because it has all of these big players on Wall street who are trading every day and boy, when they get scared about something, they take all their money out and they run away and they're, they're on a real short term leash about how long they have before they have to perform. Working at Goldman Sachs, you know, they gotta lay it out there every day and they are very, very volatile and emotional about what happens in the market. And as a result, unlike the real estate market, really good pieces of property go on sale all the time. Right. Because something happens to that neighborhood. Right. Something happens to Chipotle Mexican Grill. People are puking in the Chipotle's and all of a sudden, everybody gets out of that neighborhood. They just run. And, man, that baby goes on sale big time. Even though they have no debt, even though there's no long term, permanent problem that they can't overcome. And so that's a perfect example because we stepped in and bought the heck out of that thing under $300 a share. And right now it jumped up to 450. This is within the last year.

I remember you mentioning this at the Mastermind.

Yeah, I think it had. Had. It jumped up at that point.

I think it was about to. Or maybe it was starting to rise. I don't know. Yeah.

Anyway.

That's amazing. Yeah, you knew the word.

Now, in this market, it's harder to find those kind of things, but they still exist. You know, we're looking at several of them. Every week we try to buy a couple a year. And this kind of a process, I'm telling you guys, it can make you rich. And it doesn't take very long once you learn it. It doesn't take very long to do it. I would say if you devoted 1/10 of your time to doing something like this.

You would get really, really rich really, really fast.

Wow. Okay. So starting from that point, what you just said, the 1/10 of your time, because I think that speaks perfectly to Matt and I and probably everyone listening here. What would the first step look, look like? So where should they be looking for these opportunities? You say stock market, but obviously it's violent. It's up and down. Is that something that's a little bit more hands on rather than let's get some houses, for instance?

Well, if you wanted to, you could look for houses. And there's. There's really, really great opportunities in real estate all the time, but you have to be willing to manage that house. And we've got a friend of ours that's down the road who is really excited. I think she took a class from a really good real estate guy and she went out and made 75 offers on houses.

Oh, my God.

And then she finally got one. And over the last year, she's got four. And, you know, that's pretty much all the capital they have, and they're borrowing money to do more. So she did really well. Right. But somebody has to manage those houses. Somebody has to do the bidding. Somebody has to go find them. And to me, that's just not fun. So I love what I do. I love digging around in the stock market. So what I'm going to suggest is you start right where I taught My daughter how to do this. I said, look, just start where you are. Where do you spend money? What do you like to spend your money on? And she said, well, I love yoga. I like to buy some cool yoga things. I like my car. I like this kind of clothing, Lululemon stuff she wears all the time. I really like shopping at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's. So she names a bunch of things like this. And so we started going down this list of places where she regularly spends her money and identified Whole Foods as a public company back then. Lululemon public company, still, her car was from Nissan and she was looking at a Toyota. Both of those are public. And it turned out there were quite a number of companies that she was already very familiar with because she was choosing them. And then I taught her how to go deeper into it to see does this company have the ability to be around for a long, long time? And that ability to be around for a long, long time in the future in real estate is called location. Right. That's the durable competitive advantage of a piece of real estate, is that it's in a good location. It's a house in a good neighborhood with good schools and access to the city. And so that location thing is what's called a moat. That is the thing that protects it from competition. And it's protected because they just don't make any more dirt that's there.

That's right.

That's what's so nice about really. But with companies you have to find, you have to go a little deeper. And look, what is this moat? What do they have that other companies don't have? They're so hard to copy. And it turns out you might have to do a little reading to figure this out. But most of them are pretty simple. Most really good companies that are going to be around a long time have what's known as a brand moat. They are. You think about them rather than the generic.

So I'm thinking about going to getting a Chipotle burrito. Not just a burrito. I want a Chipotle burrito. I want a Coke that goes with it or I want a Pepsi or I don't drink that crap. So I have a monster. Right, right.

Yeah. Or the Lululemon pants. Like. Like you're like your daughter.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, man, my daughters just want Lululemon. That's it. And. And there's a reason for that. It's a high quality product. Right. So there's this thing called a brand, and it's really powerful. Once you get a brand and it's very difficult to dispute. Like you have to work at destroying a brand.

Yeah, you do.

Whole Foods obviously has that and it's very protective and Chipotle has that. So you're looking for that thing and that's. That is where the work is. You're going to read some documents called 10Ks that are produced by the company every year and tell all about it. Everything about it is in the 10K. And then you're just going to keep digging and keep studying and look at who's the competition, just like you would before you buy your first house. You're really going to do some homework and make sure that the foundation is good, it's got a good roof, you know what you're getting into. And that work that you put in never goes to waste. Because even if you don't buy that one, you know, or the next 75, right. You are, you're going to eventually find something that you really like. And that's what happens with us too.

So that was like step two, because I'm kind of following along with these four steps. So understanding the business, it's perfectly. Just start with the things around you. What's your normal day look like, the products you're, you're using, the stuff you're consuming.

So I mean, would some good examples also be things that are like you, you mentioned like a Chipotle burrito. But there's a lot of like brands that we almost just use as like the normal noun for things like Kleenex, Band Aid, you know, things like that. Like those are brand names. But it just becomes so common that you call the actual thing by the brand name that to me that seems like those are brands that aren't going anywhere.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. When you are naming the thing by the, not the generic name, but by the brand name, those guys have gotten into your head and they have obviously a really good product that they support so that you know that if you go to India and you want to get a soft drink, if you buy a Coke, you're going to get what you get. Other places in the world.

You buy the Punjabi cola, you may not get something you want. Sure, you might get something you don't want. Most likely nothing against Punjabi kola, but the brand is something that lets you know you're going to have the same experience and that's worth a lot and that means it more profitable, it's harder to compete with it.

That makes perfect sense.

So yeah, that's exactly right, man.

So the third on the list, then. That's the part where we're talking about people, integrity and talent. Would that kind of come from this research in your 10Ks and whatnot?

It starts there, but you also have to look at what are your own values here? What do you think is really important in the world? And do the people who run this company agree with you? I'm really into investing in what. I mean, some people call it socially conscious investing, which has sort of an edge to it because it's. Someone has decided what is socially conscious. Right.

That's true.

I really prefer just that it's my values. Whatever my values are, I should vote for with my money instead of just talking the talk. I'm going to walk the talk by putting my money into ownership positions in companies that I'd like to see in the world 20 years from now, because I think they're doing something good in the world. And that judgment about what's good in the world is very different from one person and another. For example, I'm a huge fan of Whole Foods type grocery stores. I love what John Mackey, who's the founder, has done to change our lives for the better by gradually shifting us off of sort of the old school stuff and into more natural, more organic, better quality everything. And he's changing farming because of that. So I love that guy's value set. And yet I also admire deeply my teacher Warren Buffett, who. Buffett could care less about natural organic food. He owns the biggest craft making company there is, Coca Cola.

Oh, Craft.

Yeah. He owns Kraft and he owns Coca Cola, which manufactures sugar water to the detriment of children everywhere.

That's right.

Right. So I'm spouting my values here. And this. I've listened to Buffett say this. It's basically like, hey, look, I like Coca Cola. It makes me happy.

Well, he goes and has what, McDonald's every morning.

Exactly. He's got a hamburger and he's got his McDonald's, he's got his Coke. And he said, look, I've been to Whole Foods. There's nobody smiling at Whole Foods with kale.

No.

That'S great.

Clearly has not been to Whole Foods up in. What's the one just out of the city? It's.

Hillcrest.

Oh, Hillcrest in San Diego. Yeah.

Yeah. That is an awesome hole for this podcast.

Yeah. Matt was about to say, we actually just finished a recording with Tucker Max, because he was also at Speakeasy and. And he's out in Austin and He says he likes to go out to the Whole Foods in Austin every Saturday or Sunday. And I'm like, yeah, no kidding. Because it's like a carnival there. I mean, it's an amusement park of food. It's amazing.

Amusement park of food and beautiful women. Not that Tucker would ever be in.

And beer and. Yeah, whatever you want.

Beautiful women in beer. Not that Tucker would be in.

That's right.

I really like that guy. He is an absolute hoot.

He's fun. Yeah, he was a good interview.

So the idea is that the CEO is the lead cheerleader for values of this company. And so you want to look at the CEO and try to see, does this CEO share my values or is he doing something that's wrong in the world? And some of the things that I look for are.

Do the CEOs, are they paying themselves some obscene amount of money? Are they gaming the system? It used to be 40 years ago that CEOs paid themselves rather well. Even in the 80s, right. And they were paying themselves 40 times the average employee salary. 40 times. And that was enough. Right. But today it's 400 times. They gained the system. So amazingly, you guys, honestly, it is a travesty. And the excuse that they have is, well, if I gave everybody back my entire $100 million salary, it would only amount to $10 per employee per year. So I deserve it anyway. 100 million a year.

So he justifies it.

Yeah, yeah. They just rationalize it. So I don't like putting money with people like that. I think they're a bunch of mercenaries, and I think they're capable, if they're that willing, to ignore the fundamental qualities of leadership that I believe in. And I don't want anything to do with them. I think that a leadership lead, and I think that leadership means that you put your people first, man. You don't pay yourself 100 million and lay people off. You put your people first and you put your. Everybody. Everybody should be ahead in the line before the CEO. Right? Everybody's doing well, then he should do really well. I'm all for that.

100% agree. Matt and I were actually looking at some sites earlier and looking at the team structure. You usually have the pictures of a team, and I absolutely love it when you see the CEO at the very bottom of that page, buried below, everybody that tells you something immediately what their values are like.

It's exactly right. I got my leadership training at the infantry school at Fort Benning, Georgia, when I was a young wannabe officer. And they teach you as A young lieutenant. What you're supposed to do is make sure your people eat first, you make sure they sleep first, you make sure that they're protected first. And then when the bullets start flying, you go first. And so those qualities of sort of.

Selfless leadership are what I love to see in CEOs, and I see that in guys like Steve Jobs. I worked actually pretty closely with Steve for a little while, and I mean, he was all about the mission. All about the mission, Right. And you see that with John Mackey. All about the mission. I mean, Mackey was paying himself a dollar a year.

That's right.

I remember that he worked for a dollar a year for a while. So I'm telling you, those are the guys I admire. And I think I wish we were turning out more people like that out of Harvard Business School, but I'm afraid it's going the other way.

That would be nice.

So is this just, like, a matter of looking up the company, finding out who the CEO is, and then, like, googling the CEO's name and just kind of seeing what you can dig up on them? Is that the kind of research you go through?

That's it. Thank God for Google and the fact that there's this enormous news core in the business world trying to dig up any edge that they can because they have so many people who are going to read it and devour it who are putting money on these news, news bits. And so there's a lot of writing that's done on CEOs. You can often. They've even written a book by the time we hear about them. They have their own biography out there. There's Wired 2.0 that runs really good stories on CEOs. Fast Company does the same thing. Inc Magazine, there's just a ton of stuff where if the CEO has been around a little while, somebody's gone out there and tried to dig up the dirt and find out who they really are. And the other thing that we do is there's a woman named Laura rittenhouse. Laura Rittenhouse. L.J. rittenhouse, who wrote a book called Reading between the Lines. That's really good. And it is. And Warren Buffett thinks it's a fabulous book. He said she's on the side of the angels once. What she's done is teach us how to read the CEO letter to find out if they're lying to us.

Interesting. Okay.

Yeah, it's really cool. So the CEO letter that's written every year to the shareholders is an opportunity for the CEO to Talk to the owners and say, here's what the company did last year. Here's all the things you need to know to know what the value of the business is that you have invested in. That's what a CEO letter should do. It should be a complete mea culpa. Right. It should be, here's what we did right. Here's what we did wrong. Instead, a lot of these people make it a cheerleading section. Oh, we love our employees and everything is so great and we've done so well. And you know, they just. Which is total bull crap. It's a tough league out there, and every company has problems every year. So Laura's got a great book out there that you should read to dig into CEO letters. Reading the 10K, how you read the 10K to see if there's. There's scamming you, and then read get just Google the heck out of the CEO.

Got it. Yeah.

You'll get the dirt if it's out there.

The dirt's the easiest part to find, typically.

Exactly. It's there.

Yeah. We'll link that boat, that book in the show. Notes for. For the listeners here. Cool. And so if we're going down the process, we have that fourth piece, then buy it on sale and.

Yeah.

And know the worth of that thing.

We started talking about that already. Right.

Because a little bit here's the mistake.

Most people make when they're out there trying to figure out what something's worth is that they're putting together discounted cash flow analysis in a sophisticated Excel spreadsheet and projecting into the future what the growth rates are going to be and what the earnings will be and what this and that is going to be. And at the end of the day, what the multiple will be that you should. All of this stuff, nothing wrong with it, except for one thing, and that is you tweak it a little bit one way or the other, and the value of the business could change by 100%. So the thing that we do that I think is really smart is we just basically say, look, what's it producing in cash flow today that I can put in my pocket if I own the whole business? And then I'll pay 10 times that. And I'll do that only in the case that these other three boxes are checked. That is, it is something I understand. It's got a durable competitive advantage, which means it will be more productive in 10 years than it is today. It's not going to go away. And it's got a great CEO if it's got that lined up and I can buy it for 10 times the current owner earnings. I'll do that deal all day.

You take action. You buy it.

Yeah, yeah, you buy it. You load up the truck. By the way, that's another little secret is that we buy very aggressively. We don't do very much for most of the time. Most of the time we're not doing anything except just reading about stuff. But when we buy, we buy a big enough chunk that it makes a real difference in our lives if that thing goes up.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense because you're front loading all that work. I mean, you're putting all that effort into sourcing the few from just the masses of options out there. And then you're just going deep on that one once you find a winner.

Yeah, it's a huge key to this whole thing, to getting really extraordinary rates of return, is that Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger produced those kinds of enormous returns and became multi billionaires by loading up the truck. They didn't do it by vast diversification. They both have said to me that about 15 companies were all that made the difference. And Warren said very explicitly once that we should all just have a punch card with 20 punches on it like you'd get at Subway. And every time you buy a company, you punch the card and you only get 20 punches your entire life.

I like that.

When you're done punching, you can't buy any more companies. So you will definitely focus and take your time and be patient. So the first real clue about how to get wealthy in investing in stocks is you're going to buy companies and you're only going to buy a small number of them, which means when you get an opportunity to buy something wonderful that's on sale, you're going to load up the truck with that thing. You're not going to. If it's raining gold, you don't want to go outside with a thimble. Right. You want to go out with a wheelbarrow. And so this is a wonderful piece of gold right in front of you here, this thing that's worth $10 and it's selling for five and you want to load up the truck with that. So we try to buy between five and 10 companies. And in order to do that, you have to spend a lot of time in cash. You can't constantly be in the market. You can. You can't be chasing momentum. Oh, the market's going up. I've got to go get something. You can't just buy Everything that's going up, you have to wait in cash. And that's why no fund managers do this.

It's a lot of sideline. Yeah.

Oh, man. You can't sit in cash with a bunch of pension funds looking over your shoulder saying, what are you doing with my $50 million?

You'll get fired.

Yeah, you'll get fired. They're saying, swing. You're up at the platform plate with my money. You swing. Don't stand there. Now when you say I get to stand there. You and me, guys, the three of us, we can stand there and watch every pitch go by all day long, for months and even years, I've stood there watching every pitch means the market's throwing an idea at you, right? Here, buy Microsoft for this. Here, buy Facebook for that. I can look at all those go buy and just say, no, not my pitch, not my pitch. Waiting for this one pitch, I know I can hit. I've already identified what it is. I know exactly what it looks like. And when finally they throw the thing up to me at a price I want to pay, I'm ready and I can hit it.

Yeah, you're not tired and swinging at every single option out. Yeah, it's coming your way.

You're ready. You're ready.

That makes sense. Now, when you say the cash flow to the owners and you're willing to pay 10 times times that, is that referring to the dividends that it pays out? I mean, how do you find that?

Well, in a well run company, dividends are part of the owner cash. A really good company only pays dividends out of cash that it doesn't need to continue to grow and operate its business. And this owner, cash, this stuff you can put in your money in your pocket. If you own the whole business, this owner cash from a good company is a really easy way to set up the valuation of the business. So you're looking at, all right, I've got $50,000 coming out of this business, whatever it is, let's say a laundromat, right? So you got this Laundromat and it's producing revenue of $200,000 a year. And after you pay for everything, including replacing machines and all your employees and the whole deal, what you're getting is $50,000 a year. And that sets a value for that business.

That's as simple as it gets. It sets a value for the business. And once you have that value set, you don't really worry too much about what's it going to be in the long run, because you know, people are going to still be using laundromats down the road. What you do is you buy that thing when it's got this great cash flow, and the cash flow is 10% yield on. On the price you paid for the business. Got it.

Got it. That makes perfect sense now. And something else regarding cash in a different way is in San Diego, and we were talking about the current economy, you were saying you're basically loading up on cash right now for the future. And I believe you said it's kind of posing itself to correct pretty soon here. Right? The economy as a whole.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing that we know. We don't have a crystal ball, right. Nobody has one of those. And what we do know, though, is that periodically in our society, the economy gets too overheated and then it starts to contract. People start to say, well, I've got too much credit, I'm not going to borrow any more money. Or the bank says, you've got too much credit. I'm not going to lend you any more money. You have to start paying off your loans. And that's the end of what's called the credit cycle. Then from that typically comes a recession for a little while. You have a time when there's not as much sales going on, the shops aren't doing as well. And that cycle is very regular. It happens every seven to 10 years in America, and it's happened that way for 140 years. And there's nothing that can stop that cycle from happening short of massive government intervention, which we seem to be having right now. So right now we're entering our 10th year without a recession, and the government is starting to be kind of nervous that it's too involved and it's starting to pull back by raising interest rates, starting to try to maybe slow things down a little bit. Maybe things are going too overheated. Housing prices are back up where they were at the peak of 2007 before they crashed. The stock market is making new records all the time. And so with this going on, it's almost inevitable that we're going to have an economic storm. And when it starts, all of these wonderful businesses we want to buy are going to go on sale because people start pulling their money out and that causes prices to go down. Right. So when they go on sale, we want to be there. And right now we're at our 10th year. And I mean, you guys can draw your own conclusions about where we should. What we should have happen here, but Warren Buffett has got his Conclusion. And that is that he is $110 billion in cash. 110 billion. And the reason he's in $110 billion in cash is as much as he would desperately like to own more stuff, he can't find anything that's on sale right now.

Right.

And that's what's happened to me is that it's, it's a little bit non intuitive but it's not so much that I'm pulling out of the market as I'm taking the profits from the companies that I owned and that have gone up dramatically since 2009. We're going to take those profits off the table and sit in cash from those things because they're not going to go up much more probably at least they shouldn't. They're already way overpriced. And then we'll hold on to the ones that we still bought on sale. But in general, we're starting to go to cash because there's nothing there that I can buy. I can't find great companies that are on sale. And whenever that's happened in the past, we're getting within 24 months or so of a big crash.

Got it.

So we're starting to set up for it makes sense.

So I guess, yeah, obviously listeners, draw your own conclusion. But definitely it sounds like have some cash at hand, focus on that and, and, and keep an eye out for how the market's looking. But also these opportunities, maybe there are a handful that you'd really like to get in or you know, but just kind of do your homework. It sounds like, and if all you.

Did was just go to cash ahead of this crash. Right. And then even without knowing anything about companies, if you just.

Said, okay, what are the best companies I know about? You just pick those after the crashes happen. A year from, let's say it crashes tomorrow, a year from now the market will finally be down really low and you can go and you say, okay, well clearly Apple Computer, that's a great company, I'll buy that one. Let's see, I'll buy General Motors, that's a really good car company. You might take a chance on Tesla because you really like it and it's gotten its stock price cut by 75% because of the recession. And you just start picking up these companies you like and you get maybe 10 of them and buy them cheap. And I'm telling you, leave them there. We remember I told you guys, we did our first workshop in Singapore back in 2009. We had the students create a list of companies this happened to be right.

You know, after the stock market crash. And the stock market's just starting to come back up. And I'm now very aggressively buying companies. Okay. So I start teaching these students and I said, you guys find 10 companies you really like. And so they laid out a list of these companies and did a paper portfolio as if they had $100,000 and they bought those companies. And today those 10 companies total are worth $650,000. Oh, man. Those six, okay, in the last 10 years, so 100 went to 200. That's one double. 200 went to 400. That's two doubles and a half of another one. And that's in a ten year period of time. So that means they're compounding their money at about 22% per year.

Right. And I guess that's something we haven't even talked about is compound interest and compound earnings and all that.

Oh my God, you guys know how powerful that is to be compounding money at a high rate of return. So really, because compounding is so powerful, if you're young enough, like you guys are young, you start early enough with this, I swear to God, it doesn't matter how much money you start with. You can start with $1,000 and you will be almost as rich as somebody that starts today with 100,000. Both of you doing exactly the same kind of investing, because it's not going to take you that long to catch up with the person that's got 100. Right. You're doing the same kind of investing and eventually that doesn't matter that you had a lower starting point very much. Your lives will be very similar. You're going to have more money than you need know what to do with.

Sure. Not a bad place to be in.

I like the sound of that.

Not a bet yet.

All my money right now I know what to do with, and I want, I want not know what to do with money.

Exactly. I will tell you from my personal experience that when I had my first million dollars, I was only a couple years removed from living entirely out of a waterproof bag about, you know, a foot high and 18 inches wide. Everything I owned had been in that bag. So I was still in that sort of comfort zone where I didn't need a lot and I had a million dollars. I didn't think there was any way I could spend a million dollars the rest of my life, but I found out I was wrong.

Yeah, actually you brought up a point. Because I know a lot of folks just even getting into the market. Even though these are freaking proven principles right here by many, many people, there's still that emotional belief thing happening in everyone's head. Head trash, whatever you want to call it.

Yeah.

Are there some things that you've seen people, you know, good ways to get past that, you know, the doubt. Oh, I've lost money before, but ways to move past that.

Yeah. In fact, it's the fear of investing that kept my own daughter from ever being interested in it. Oh, wow. And she said, dad, maybe what we should do. Well, she finally got to this place where she's an attorney in Boulder, Colorado, and making decent money, and she started adding it all up. What, you know, how much she could save and how long it would take her to work as an attorney before she got to a place where she didn't feel like, you know, she was she. Where she felt like she was financially free. And she found out basically, she's going to be a wage slave her entire life. And so she finally came to her old man. And I'd been trying to teach her to invest for years, but she wasn't interested. And she said, let's do a podcast. And you teach me during the podcast to invest, and then I'll have to do it because I'm on a podcast and we're listening. And so we started that and that ended up being really popular. We're still doing it. It's called Invested. And we wrote a book based on the podcast. We said, okay, look, Danielle, you take a year, and we're gonna do this a month at a time. I'm gonna teach you something new every month for a year. And I want you to go from never having invested to investing successfully. And she accomplished that. And the book is about that journey. And it starts off in the first chapter about the fear she has about investing on her own. And most people, if they're halfway self, aware, know that they don't know what they're doing when it comes to investing, and they're afraid that it's actually as difficult as what all the financial advisors make it out to be. And they don't have an mba, they don't have all this background, and therefore they're very concerned that they won't be able to invest properly. And I'll tell you, if you're afraid like that, this book is perfect because it walks you through how Danielle dealt with those fears by gradually becoming more and more comfortable about the nature of the investment process. It really is a good book, and I'm going to recommend it. To you strongly. As you guys said, it was the number one nonfiction book in America in April. And it's a good book, man.

I love it. Yeah. And I know you mentioned her and I saw that you had a podcast. I didn't know that was the actual format or the kind of the mission or purpose behind it, but now because of that, I think everyone should probably go over there and start from day one. It sounds like.

Oh, no, I love, I love the concept of the podcast too, because it's like your daughter's the voice of the listeners and you're the, you know, you're the seasoned pro that's guiding her through it. And anybody could be a fly on the wall to see what exact advice you would give to your own daughter. I think that's an amazing concept.

And she has this really nasty way of digging in on me when I haven't been as clear as I should have been.

She does it like a lawyer, you know, just taking me apart. And it creates, I think, a fairly interesting dynamic. She's completely unintimidated by me whatsoever. I say things that I think are self evident, and she spends the next 40 minutes ripping them apart. And what the result of that is is that the clarity that comes out of the podcast is really important for people who are listening to the podcast. And so many people have come up to us later at a workshop that we're doing and said, look like a 40 year old construction guy came up and said, hey, I'm Danielle. I'm your daughter, man. Everything she asks you is the stuff I keep thinking. And nobody asks these questions. So it's 165 podcasts so far.

Wow.

We've done a lot of them. And, and so it's a bit of a pile to make your way through, but it's a great education, especially if you're starting with a lot of fear about doing this at all.

So with the podcast, do you recommend just going all the way to episode one and just starting there and working your way through them?

Yeah, I'd start right there.

Perfect.

And you're going to hear almost straight off the bat with episode one, you're going to hear the fear. You're going to hear the overarching and compelling complaint that this is stupid and I don't want to do it. That's really where she, this is why.

I want to listen to it.

I don't want to do it. And then we get into the basics. It's so basic, but it's a lot of basics. People don't have. For example, Danielle thought she could just save money and it would be okay. She didn't know about inflation. She didn't know that inflation would eat up all of her savings over the course of her life at even the minor rate that we have, which is just 3%.

And the discovery that her investing would have to keep up with the rate of inflation or she was going backwards on every dollar she saved, that was a revelation and a shock to her. And so those are the places we start. So if you're out there and you're thinking, man, I don't know anything about this, It's a good place to go.

Because I just think of people. I mean, we have. Matt and I talk about our friends often. A lot of them actually listen to the show, so hopefully this does resonate. But they almost feel like they're not in control. Not in control of making a better life. Breaking out of this system of, you know, school, college, and day job until the day I retire. And then, you know, that's when I actually live life where this is an opportunity to get out, like you said, even a thousand dollars, stash it away for a couple months if you, you know, anyone can do that and then apply that in the right way. So I hope that's the case. Yeah.

Oh, that is the case. There's a guy who's a dentist that went to USC dental school and then to a residency at usc. So he spent seven years working to build up his career as an orthodontic surgeon, and now he's out of dental school. And the loans that he got at USC have compounded at 8% per year faster than he can pay them off. And as a result, he now owns $1 million. That's going up at the rate of $85,000 a year.

Dear God.

He only makes 225,000 a year. So it's going to go to 2 million. By, I think, 20, 30, 30, he'll owe $2 million. I mean, there are so many people out there who are up against this out of control feeling as a result of school loans, as a result of.

Being afraid of what? Being afraid of going into a job just solely to make money and wanting to have a life. And that's the thing. Yeah. And yet you get stuck going into a job you hate because you got to pay a loan. I mean, it really does feel like you're out of control. You know, guys, I was. I avoided that somehow by a totally different train wreck. You know, I went, I'm. I'm Older here. Right. So I can give you some grandfatherly advice.

Yeah, yeah.

I went. I went to Vietnam, and when I came back, I was a lost puppy, man. I had PTSD like crazy. And I ended up as a guide in the Grand Canyon, and that's what sort of helped me get through. Plus, I learned to meditate, which really helped me get through.

We talked about that. That's a good one. Yeah.

Yeah. I really think that's an important one. But the thing is, I had one thing going for me, and that was that I knew how to live on not much, and I didn't owe anybody any money. And so I was actually having a reasonably decent life making $4,000 a year working in the Grand Canyon. I was saving enough money to go to India. Oh, that's where you live, over in India. Right. I didn't need much. And it's a little bit.

That idea that if you don't need a lot, the world's kind of your oyster. You can take or leave it. You don't need a lot. What happens to us is we start stacking it up with the kind of car we want to drive, the kind of house we want to live in, the neighborhood we want to be in, trying to keep up with our friends who are making a million a year. And all of this stuff starts to put so much pressure on us that we don't have an opportunity to find out what's our dharma, what am I here for? And so if there's a good reason to be an investor, whether it's something you're comfortable doing or not, perhaps the best reason of all, I could go teach that dentist how to take a few thousand dollars a year, and he could end up covering those loans.

Sure.

It's just a matter of getting a higher rate of return, doing what I do. And so the beauty of investing is that it frees you. It gives you financial freedom, not that you're rich, but that you know you'll be. Okay, that's enough right there to change the whole direction of your life.

Love it.

Love it. Now, I've got a couple small rabbit holes I want to go down real quick. I don't think these will be super in depth topics, but I just want to touch on them real quick and get your thoughts on them. So, one, we've had past guests, actually multiple, probably four or five past guests, where we've talked about cryptocurrency and bitcoin and, you know, that kind of stuff. And I was just curious what your sort of thoughts, what Your take on it is just, you know, just generally, what do you. What do you think about that? And, you know, do you have any predictions on what that could do to the economy and investments in general?

Well, I think that there's a real place for it, actually. And I'm not talking about just the blockchain technology, which everybody thinks there's a real place for. I'm talking about the actual currency. I think there'll be a winner, and maybe it'll be Bitcoin or maybe it'll be ethereum, I don't know. But I think there's a place for it. If you like the idea of having something that's beyond government reach, at least theoretically, beyond government reach, that can't be inflated, that can't be destroyed as a currency, as a storehouse of value and anonymity, because obviously the world's a really dangerous place, and we've been in very fortunate to be in a country where we don't deal with the kind of violence that goes on in lots of other parts of the world. But can you imagine if you lived in Venezuela and you saved up your whole life, and then a government comes along that destroys the value of your currency to where all of your savings in your Venezuelan dollars are worthless? I mean, it all goes away.

And that's so hard to deal with. That's happened in Argentina twice in my lifetime, where they destroyed the currency intentionally, twice. And Venezuela now. And I've been in countries when I was in the army where they have gone through this hyperinflation. And I'll tell you what, man, it ain't a pretty thing. The world gets on fire and people get hurt. And having a storehouse of value that's beyond governments, where they can't lock you up at the border, you're not trying to tape money onto your body. I was in one country where I was trading US Dollars for gold as they were undergoing a revolution. And it is a scary thing, man. I'm telling you right now, the average person is no way equipped for the kind of danger that that kind of money transfer would entail if a government's trying to keep you from getting your money out of that country. And so there's a real place there for those of us who are slightly skeptical about the, I guess, the altruistic nature of government. Just not that sure. Not that sure. Government is really not in it for itself as opposed to being in it for the people. And I would love to see a version of Bitcoin become something that stabilizes and is a stable storehouse of value. And obviously we're at a very beginning stages here. Nobody knows who the winner is going to be. So it's really hard to say that we can invest in it, but I think we can trade it. And I've got a very good friend of mine who's made, ballpark about 40 or $50 million trading Bitcoin and ethereum and Ripple. And he's just really good at it. And he could give it all back tomorrow because he's just all in.

But I would say right now it's a trading. It's a trading event. And of course it's going on. The Chicago Board of Exchange is going to start trading it, trading futures. I think it's a worthy thing. And I love the idea of it being outside of government. I would like to know more about it. That would tell me that governments can't somehow get you anyway because I mean, think about 1933 in America when we were going through depression and people were starting to not want to spend money because they were scared about what would happen to their job. And so they started storing money in that age's equivalent of bitcoin, which is gold, right? It's anonymous, it doesn't move across borders very well. But if you can get it across a border, it's just accepted at the other side. And so people started storing money, turning dollars into gold. And the federal government of the United States made that illegal in 1933. And they confiscated all the gold in America, bought it from people. They didn't take it for nothing. They paid them $20 per ounce. And once they had all the gold, then they arbitrarily moved the exchange rate on gold up by almost double. So effectively what the government did was say that, yeah, the real value of gold is $40 an ounce. We're going to pay you 20 because you don't have any choice and we're going to take it. So they confiscated at a half price. I think that it's going to. I would like to know that bitcoin couldn't have that done to it. And I think that's probably what it's all about, is that it can't have that done to it. So honestly, I think bitcoin right now, trade it and look for the winner. And when there's a winner and it stabilizes, then I would say some money and it would be a good idea.

I love it. That makes a lot of sense. And then one other little quick topic I wanted to touch on so I'm on this mailing list of someone named James Altucher. You may be familiar with him, but he's got a newsletter that actually gives investing advice. And lately his big thing that he's been pushing in his newsletter is that the next hot thing, the next gold rush, is the cannabis marijuana related stocks. And I was just curious if I could get your quick take on that as well.

I think he's right that there's going to be a huge winner in that area. Obviously, I think the whole country is going to legalize. I mean, one of the ways we solve the problem at the border is we legalize these drugs that are funding the narcos in Mexico and making Mexico so dangerous that people have to leave terrified for their life. And it's one of the reasons our friends are so afraid of a wall is that their families can't get out if there's a wall.

That's right.

I'm really into finding a solution to the narco problem. And we've already started down that road in America by legalizing in some of the states. Somebody's going to be a big winner in this thing. The catch, of course, when you're in early stage like this is figuring out who that is.

There's a funny thing about airlines that Warren Buffett used to say that.

Somebody should sort of lock him up the next time he wants to invest in an airline. He said even better than that is to time travel back to Kitty Hawk and kill the Wright brothers.

Oh, man.

Because so many of these companies have come out of there and failed. Right. And even though they look like they're great for a time, they end up going bankrupt. Same thing with the car companies. I think they were literally about a thousand companies trying to be the automobile manufacturers. And it boiled down to GM and Chrysler and Ford ultimately. And the rest of them are bones in the car yard. And we don't want to be bones in the car yard as an investor. So when it comes time to look at a marijuana manufacturing company, I would take a serious look at companies that make tools for that.

Don't bet on the miner, bet on the shovel guy.

And especially if they are selling those tools to other industries where you've got yourself diversified a little bit. But in general, you'd want to trade those. I put those kind of deals into what I call my risky business portfolio, which is about 10% of my overall portfolio. I use for fun to take a shot. Right. So you do your research and you find out, all right, do I understand this business that these guys are in with manufacturing and distributing marijuana. Do I understand the risks of the business? Do I understand what gives them a durable protective advantage against other companies? How come Phil Town just can't come in and start up a marijuana company right next door? What's preventing me from doing that is a moat. So do these guys have a moat? Is there such a thing as a moat in this business? And if there isn't, then I'd be very careful. I would trade them, but I wouldn't try to be a long term owner. I only want to be a long term owner of things that are very durable, have proven that durability for at least eight to 10 years. And I can see really clearly into the future that nobody can knock them out of the seat. And right now I don't feel that way about those guys.

I love it.

Yeah, I was actually watching a documentary, I think on HBO or something like that. And the person so far, I think, well, legally, the person so far who's made like the most money in the medical or the marijuana industry has actually been a guy who sells, I believe, manure. Some sort of like manure or some sort of soil that it grows in really well. It was something like that. Is the person who's actually become the wealthiest so far in the legal marijuana trade. Obviously, you know, you've got cartels and stuff that probably, you know, make the amount of money he made look like pennies. But as far as the legal marijuana trade, it's actually this guy that's selling like manure and topsoils.

Wow.

Now you're. Now that. See, that's thinking like an investor, right? That's a second level of thinking and that's really, really smart. And you're going to find that there are these guys who are producing something that turns out to be patented or trade secreted, and they've got control of a significant portion of that market. And as a result, they can charge a premium for the product. They're more profitable. Very difficult to compete with this, with this product. And they become the Xerox of marijuana. They become the Coca Cola of marijuana. Right. And that's who you want to buy. Those are the guys you want to own.

Makes perfect sense. All right, Phil. I feel like we can keep going forever. We might have to do around two.

We love this stuff. And you're great at it.

The world opens up so much when you start to look at companies and, and think about voting your money and putting your money where your mouth is. You know, if you love the whole idea of Marijuana and the growers, and you start looking. That's exactly what investing is all about. You just start digging in because it's fun and you like it. And you realize, okay, now what are the rules that I need to follow? Those were laid down by the grandfathers, Buffett and Munger. Follow those rules, we lay them out. Really good for you. In the book Invested. And you're gonna be. You'll have so much fun even if you just dig it in on the beginning of the marijuana industry.

That's the thing. You're gonna learn so much even if you're not investing. Might as well invest and make some money off of this bad boy, huh?

Yeah, you're gonna learn, you know, Panama red or Mexico green or what?

What? Seems like, you know, quite a bit. We won't go there. All right, Phil? Well, definitely, everyone, you know, the folks listening, get invested. I know. I'm gonna go get that now. I've heard. Heard quite a bit about it right before this as well. And Also you mentioned L.J. rittenhouse, correct? Is that her name?

L.J. rittenhouse? Reading between the lines.

Reading between the lines, yeah. So we'll link that up in the show notes.

Now, are there any other must read books for people that want to sort of dive into this world a little deeper outside of your, you know, your books and this reading between the lines, because we'll link all those up in the show notes. But I'm curious if there's any must.

Read a couple of these books in the show notes. I just think they're so valuable. The first one is the Education of a Value Investor. Education of a Value Investor by Guy Spier, who is one of the best investors on the planet and is fabulous and a great guy. It's his journey from being basically a Wall street asshole to becoming an absolute disciple of Warren Buffett and value investing. Fabulous. And you'll learn so much. And the second one is written by Mohnesh Prabhrai, P A B R A I. And it's called the Dhandho Investor, or Dhando Investing. D H A N D O Dondo, which is, I think it's Hindi for business investing. And by that he means buy businesses, not just shares of stock, buy companies that you understand. And he's a devotee of Buffett as well, and one of the best investors in the world. He invests all over the world. Indian national guy, and he lives up in Irvine. Fantastic man. And anything you can get by him is great. So Dhandho investing and the education of a Value Investor are two of the best books ever written about this kind of investing.

We're grabbing them, that's for sure. And definitely where do we want to point people to. To check out more of your stuff? So I know we talked about the event, but you have the podcast and all that as well.

Yeah. And we'll do something for your listeners. We'll give you guys, they can come onto the website@rule1investing.com and they can get a scholarship. They just apply for a scholarship. We'll make sure they get there. Tell them, you know, tell us you were on the listening to podcasts, you're fans of Joe and Matt, and we'll get you a full ride scholarship to our three day workshops. We don't sell anything there. We 100% educate you and, and we'll make that sure that, you know, you got to pay to get out there and stay. But we do those in Atlanta and once a year we do them in San Diego.

Oh, man. Okay, Matt, we got to figure out a way to go to the.

Gotta figure out a way to go. We're here.

We're in June. Yeah, the one coming up here.

Exactly. Exactly. We'd love to have you guys. You guys are VIPs, man. We'll put you right there.

I appreciate that. All right, Phil. Well, we'll probably do a round two in the future once we get our feet wet a little bit more, too.

Looking forward to it already. You guys are great.

Thanks for your time, man.

See you.

All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool, free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com. so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.