Podcasting for PR and Profit with Joe Fier

Hi, and welcome to the Social PR Secrets podcast. We are on season three, and I have my friend Joe Fear here as the guest and. Hey, Joe, how are you?

Hey, Lisa. Thanks for having me on. It's been a while.

It has been a while. And I thought it would be very appropriate because you're in the middle of doing a series outside of your podcast talking about podcasting for profit. I. I've taken a little bit of a break on podcasting, and now I'm back, and I just thought it would be cool to talk about. We have so many overlaps, it seems like, in our business lives since we met four years ago. So I thought it'd be cool to talk about behind the scenes of our. Both of our podcasts and how podcasting and PR really intersect.

I love it. Yeah. Everything is podcasting in my mind. I feel like everything passes through a podcast, you know, and it's the case for both of us. It's how we met via a podcast at Mastermind that we held and. Yeah, no, let's talk about it, I guess. Lead me.

Yeah. So, Joe, you are the host of Hustle and Flowchart. And you, when we met, you had a co host, Matt, and that. I think I listened to your podcast for a couple of years, and then you were doing a mastermind in Orlando, right where I lived, and we ended up meeting in person right before the pandemic and very instrumental in taking podcasting to the next level for me and including it in my arsenal for not only my own podcast, but introducing podcasting to my PR world, whether it's guesting or hosting. So I'm just going to turn it over to you. Tell us a little bit about Hustle and Flowchart for those that haven't heard. It's one of my favorite podcasts and a little bit about what's happened since the pandemic when we met to today, because now you're on your own and to turn it over to you.

Cool. Thank you. Yeah. And podcasting entered my life, what, 10 years ago? 10 or 12 years ago, something like that. And that I did not stay up. Like, there was a. Definitely a gap in time before Hustle and Flowchart started. So Hustle and Flowchart is seven years old now, which is wild. And yeah, it's. It's changed so many times over the years. Like, we probably changed the direction. Obviously had a co host like you said, Matt Wolf. He's gone off and now is doing Future Tools. And you can. I always shout out my brother from Another mother. So check out future Tools IO, like great resource for AI tools and all that. But I ended up taking over the podcast after we split things in business. And yeah, throughout the years, ever since I began and him and I kind of began a lot at the same time, it was always content marketing and always, you know, I always love chatting with people, meeting new people. I've always found myself to be like the connector type, just naturally and I don't know, I connect the dots and then I kind of see the big picture, connect the dots. And I like to co create with others and podcasting just naturally fit. Especially a show where I can bring a guest on or guest on someone else's podcast and create something cool like you get to know someone, someone who's interesting.

For a while I wanted to connect with some bigger names and it's like, okay, well how far can I reach? Like, what kind of celebrities and people can I bring on? And. And then it was almost like a bunch of experiments as layered it with different ways to monetize and grow a fan base and audience. So there's throughout these, I guess what, the seven years of this show, it's been like one big experiment I'd feel like, and connected. My network has grown tremendously via podcasting and getting this whole referral system going. Affiliate marketing has always been a big way to monetize throughout the years. Sponsorships, my own courses, training, consulting. It's developing now more into masterminds and other bigger partnerships with equity in talks with companies, startup companies, softwares that integrate. So it's like podcasting has always been the core and it's kind of been this flywheel thing over the years that picks up. And the key to it is systems workflows and all that stuff, which that's pretty much what I've been preaching now these days.

Yeah, I think also a key component that you have lived by, besides the fact that you're a connector, which is always helpful. And podcasting is the ultimate form of networking, which I think, like a lot of people don't realize. And networking is so important when it comes to public relations and marketing and branding and being personable. But I think that you've really leaned in, you and Matt, and now you continue to lean into technology and using technology to your advantage. And, you know, that's something that has made podcasting more accessible than five years ago, is that, you know, it used to be like, oh, what, you know, you need to have like certain level of technology and equipment, which is still important. I'm not downplaying that, but now with technology, not just with podcasting, but with marketing, we've seen so many leaps and bounds of innovation that have helped us continue to get better and make the process easier. So speaking of technology, I just want to kind of like, dive into also the last year and a half, how we both kind of took this detour into Web3 in crypto and then came back to, you know, kind of like where our think our passion and purpose really, really is. And so tell us. I can talk a little bit about that. I mean, I. I took my detour into female disruptors and the femcoin and crypto, and I'm still very passionate about Web3, but it's, you know, when I went down that path that, you know, I. I decided, okay, I'm coming back to my roots where, where I am right now talking to you, and coming back to social PR secrets and continuing the line of innovation. But tell us a little bit about what, what you learned in that detour over the past year and a half.

Yeah, great, Great setup there because it. It's been a journey the last year and a half, two or so. And so prior to that, you know, the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, I guess I didn't put enough foundation or tell what that show is, but Hustle and Flowchart is. That's. That's. It's all mine now. And yeah, that's the co host. It's always been in the entrepreneurial marketing space. That was kind of like the ethos of it all, and it changed variety, you know, like, type of topics and guests. But really, that's like the core thing. It's made for entrepreneurs, small business and what. So, yeah, about two years ago, there was like, we're. That's the thing. You get shiny objects, or at least like, if you don't have enough bumpers or guardrails and focus, which at the time, like, I think we were. We were kind of in between some projects. So we started hearing about Web3. We started hearing about Metaverse and talked with you a lot. You know, crypto and crypto. Yeah. And we're like, wow, that's fascinating. What if we applied our marketing brains and all these interesting connections and what we built here with content over there where no one's doing marketing and, you know, basically create something brand new and it's not always the best move for a business or especially one that's been going for a while. So we learned a lot, and I feel like we were quote, quote successful. You Know, during this run, about a year or so of really diving in. And honestly what we did is we pivoted the podcast to web3 specifically. Like gaming was even a part of it. And that came about because of some of the people that we were connected with. We ended up having Justin Kahn on from Twitch. You know, he founded Fractal now and his partner created Google Drive. I mean like Google fonts, like smart, brilliant guys. And we're like, wow, we're reaching big. So we got like, you know, some of the biggest names in web 3. Animoca was one of our, was our first client and they're a multi billion dollar company, like massive. So we're just like, holy moly. Like we're doing the right thing, like we're reaching to the top. But then we realized, oh well, because of the economics, the crypto markets and all that, it killed us, it killed the industry. Money stopped flowing. We were on a good run to bring this whole content thing. We also were integrated a lot of YouTube and we're doing live streams, doing this whole broadcast thing. So throughout all of that, the podcast was still there. But honestly a lot of the people left, a lot of people were just not ready for the Web3 talk. And still to this day, you know, obviously it's, it's, it's new, there's a lot of learning, but I think a lot of people are getting burnt on the crypto markets as well. So it was like a sour taste in everyone's mouth a little bit. And it was the end of last year. So 2022 was when I decided it was in October, I decided I couldn't do it anymore. Like I felt too disconnected from the core group of people, including yourself, that I, in this whole network I built for the last 10 plus years. I mean, I've been doing it about 15 years now in the marketing space and building this network here in San Diego. There's so many great marketers and entrepreneurs and I'm in a couple of masterminds, high level ones, kind of like you are with Baby Bathwater. I'm in one called Speakeasy and it's like some of the greatest minds in the personal development space, experts, authors are there and they're my buddies, they were clients. And I basically just. No, I'm going to forget about this whole space that basically built up the podcast and my connections and then going in the crypto space. So yeah, it's interesting, like disconnect.

I remember reading your, your post. I think it was on Facebook when you decided to kind of come back to your roots. And I remember that whenever that was, it was right around the time where I was kind of like in this spinning moment, you know, with female disruptors and web3 and going. Going to all these web3 conferences and web3. What I realized in about November, December, and I talked to a lot of other people in Web3 that went to these same conferences was taking a toll on mental health for so many people. It was so stressful. I mean, we thought Web two was stressful. Web three was. Is ten times more stressful because everybody was just trying. Nobody was sleeping. Everybody was just trying to keep this, like, crazy momentum going or like you said, chase the shiny object. And I think that Web3 is. We're in the process of Web3 evolving. We just don't know where it's right now. Artificial intelligence is kind of taken over as the buzzword is, what's going to push technology from a marketing and just everything standpoint. But similar. I was in a similar space. And once I had already committed to the Female Disruptors event and we had a web3 track that was in January of this year. And the minute that that event ended, I was like, that's the end of one chapter. I don't know what. What the next chapter is, but I'm, you know, I need this. This can't go on the way. It's. It's not. It wasn't sustainable. It wasn't bringing me, like, the passion I thought it was Female Disruptors was. But I just missed, like, the social PR secret side of, you know, doing my weekly podcast and connecting and networking and, you know, so, you know, we've kind of both come back to, you know, now just here I am with season three, just launching the first episode the other day. But yeah, like, really my passion is, you know, helping businesses and training them and coaching and mentoring and advising and helping them to embrace technology and, you know, move forward with emerging technology that's going to help them get better results and make their life more efficient and. And happy. And at the same time, let's talk about mental health at the same time, keep your wellness in check. Because if that's not in check, like, everything falls apart. So I know that that's something you're passionate about, too.

It totally is. And that's how I repackaged the show Hustle and Flowchart at the beginning of 2023. It was so. It's so funny because you and I live these kind of parallel lives in business at least. But on the Mental. It's definitely this, the way that we look at things, how we're, how we're built, I guess, as entrepreneurs, as people, because we've always connected on the way that we look at business. Marketing, you know, PR earned media, like, a lot of what you've taught over the years, and you've, You've. You're so invested in the PR community and even being a professor, you know, for a while and doing this all, like, I've learned so much from you, and you've helped me refine a lot of the thoughts and the ways that, you know, I approach content and basically presenting myself as a brand and really thinking through all these elements. And by far, I'm not perfect at all. But the beginning of this year, I was thinking about you because it was like, on the mental health side as well. There were definitely challenges over the last three years that I went through, last four years almost now. And so it was a toll mentally, physically, business wise, seeing money dry up in a market that we basically pivoted everything to. We're like, oh, crap. Okay. So it's like I felt like I had a sumo wrestler sitting on my chest for, like, most of last year, 2022, and it really wasn't until the beginning of this year, 2023, when I decided, and I got to give credit to James Schramko for telling me, hey, go do the podcast thing. Like, pick that back up. That's basically the castle that you left with all the gold bars in it. And you and Matt decided to go to the woods and play with something new and, like, figure something out. But it's like, the castle's still there waiting for you. And he was like, go back there. Like, because people are still going to be there. And sure enough, they were, you know, and it's. It's been this whole repackaging of what does Hustle and Flowchart mean for me? What does podcasting mean? What is this whole business thing mean? And it's a lot more purpose driven now, like, to your point, with mental health wrapped up with entrepreneurship and marketing, like, my bigger passion now is to not only help others express themselves through my podcast or through the trainings I give them, because I know we all have some kind of message that we have in us. And for whatever reason, we're probably being like, there's friction points on expressing that. And I felt like the podcast, for me, I needed some expression at the beginning of this year to talk about what the hell I've gone through and what other a Lot of other entrepreneurs are feeling burnout for a lot of the same reasons. Maybe they didn't all take the Web3 route and all that, but a lot of them did. A lot of them got burnt hard. So that's. That's all like the ethos of the show now, Huss and flu chart is like, don't burn out while you're basically, business should be the fuel for your life. It shouldn't be taking life away from you. It's like, we invest so much time and energy here. Let's make it right for us and then also for the greater community people were serving.

Yeah. And I'm on the same page and I remember, you know, actually Nava is who I interviewed for the episode right before this. And we've worked together for like, 15 years. And we talked about just how. Because we were on the front lines of. Of digital so early, from a marketing standpoint, we took. It took a toll on us earlier than the masses. And I wrote Digital Detox Secrets. And that's part of why I came to your mastermind, because I wrote Digital Detox Secrets because it was my interpretation of, like, how the digital world, you need to balance it in your personal and professional life. And like, here's how I did it and here's how you can do it as an entrepreneur. But I was like, how do I fit that into social peers? You know, my. My public relations agency and I wrote this book on digital detox. Like, how do the two connect? And it was hard to figure out because it wasn't as. As much of a thing as it is now. Like, now the masses understand that digital can. There's so many statistics on digital can, how digital can take us down from a mental and physical standpoint. But now, now it's. It makes sense that I'm positioning myself as, yes, I'm a public relations, you know, expert here to help and train and mentor. But I want you to keep your digital wellness in check. And here are some tips on how you can get the most out of what I'm, you know, training or mentoring. But you can't do it without these things like breath and meditation and taking breaks and things like that. And what are some of your tips that you can share that you do on a daily or weekly basis that other people can learn from?

I love it. Yeah. So I. This is like, was the big reset for me this year. So is committing to a list of things that I just. I'm committing to every single day. These little micro actions, these habits, and there's a group, you know, it's nice to have accountability. So there's a group of like five or five guys that we check in with each other every single day. So morning and evening and there's typically like some kind of activation. So if it's breath work, like Wim Hof breathing, I like to do like three rounds of that, 50 reps each round and then hold. And I could see how like my lung capacity usually translates to how well I'm feeling for the day. And if I don't do that activation, something up top is just not as clear in my mind. So breath work is great. Pushups. Like, I always make sure I nail a hundred in a day. I've noticed I've gotten a lot stronger just from simple little things like that. And this is all like a trackable spreadsheet. I actually like tick boxes every single day. So I'm tracking data and seeing kind of these trends and drinking enough water, sleep, there's journaling, there's a lot of self work. And that's helped me figure out what is it that I want. What are these things, like my superpowers, what are they? How do I lean into those things a lot more and then figure out how to delegate or maybe eliminate the rest and be very intentional? Like, I've started to really track my day closely in like 15 minute increments. I'm always trying these new things. I mean, this is just a short term thing to kind of dial things in further. But I'm a big believer now of getting a lot of help. You know, I have a few core members on my team that really do a lot of the stuff that I was just kind of doing in the beginning and it was draining me out. It was like, okay, if I don't get help, like asap, you know, someone that can help with the podcast production, get me out of the admin parts of my business, like, I'm going to lose my mind. I used to have a business partner that helped with that, but now I'm like, I don't have that.

Yeah.

And so that's, I think, a big mental shift for me. It was tough, but it's like for my mental health too. Those are, those are things I focus on.

Yeah. And I'll just add to that. Like one of the things you, you talked about was sleep. And so that's been a big focus for the, for me and my husband for the past, for a couple years now, but really intensely over the past maybe three to six months. Like we. One of the first things we say to each other in the morning is, what was your sleep score? What's your readiness score? Because, like, we're just realizing how our quality of sleep impacts the outcome of our day no matter what, and especially stress. And you know, we go into these roller coasters of, of stress, whether it's business or personal, and you just can't handle stress unless you have enough sleep. Like, I just never realized how critical. It's not the hours you sleep, it's the quality of sleep and like your routine before sleep that's going to impact your quality of sleep. So I've been like really obsessed with sleep and now I just this week like learned or I just put this boundary up for myself where after 6 o' clock at night, I'm not watching things that are like, upsetting, whether it's the news or like, you know, crazy movies or crazy series that are even, not even violence, but just, that are just like, oh my God, what's going to happen? Yeah, yeah, like, like that you don't want to go to sleep. Like, I wait, I wake up in the middle of the night, like thinking about whatever just happened before I went to sleep. Whether it was, you know, know, watching, you know, the morning show or, you.

Know, just even like, that's a good show. But.

Yeah, it is a good show, but it's like, oh my God, you know, something you watch during the day. But that's something that I've really focused on and just detoxing, like things out of my life. Like just. I'm doing a 30 day detox now with Dr. Savage who, you know, you know, now and, you know, just getting out all of the, you know, like stuff out of your gut or stuff that the environment might have, you know, might have unintentionally brought into your body that's bringing, you know, negative reactions physically.

That's the thing. And, and yeah, I had a great discussion. He'll be on my podcast soon. And thank you for the introduction. I was just chatting with him to or with. About him to the lady cut my hair earlier this morning and talking about how it's like the three things that for longevity, it's. Yeah, sleep is a big one. I think the first one he said was diet and then, you know, exercise or movement in your body and then sleep. And it's true.

You also mentioned journaling. And I think that I never really started journaling until this year. I have a notebook like, this is what mine looks like right now.

Yeah, yeah, I got a couple in front of Me, like, but I.

And I was like, oh, do I have, like, my list for a business and my journal? So I just started combining the journal with my business list. And I'll do, like, totally. I'll do, like, a list. Okay, top five things or top things I'm, you know, that I'm afraid of today or tough things that are making me happy today. And, like, it makes a difference on what you shift. But I think that the ultimate. I think talk therapy is very important, but the ultimate talk therapy is actually podcasting. I think podcasting is a form of journaling, you know, out loud. And it's also a form of talk therapy because you're talking to people that, like, you know, typically you're not going to go on a podcast unless you're going to feel good from that podcast. Like, you're making people, like, educating them or sharing your experience. And hopefully you're not going to have anybody on your podcast that's going to make you feel bad. You're going to talk about things you love to talk about.

Right. It's like we're curating how we feel like if. If and everyone can do this. And this is why I love podcasting, because you don't have to have your own show. You can go to other shows and do this and show up with great energy with the. With a plan of why you're doing this thing. Obviously, there could be a very much of a business intention behind it and should be if you're a business person, if you're using this for visibility and referrals. But yeah, in terms of, like, a therapeutic side of things, I love it. And connecting with people. This is one way. And to almost talk therapy this way. It's helped me throughout the years of my show. I feel like I've become a better communicator, thinker, just person in general. And. But then even the solo episodes, those are freaking hard. Lisa. Like, earlier this year, like, I was like, how do I do this? I don't even know how to structure my thoughts. Where. I mean, I. I do. I have all these frameworks. But then, you know, we always get in our heads. It's like when you hit the record button, you're like, you know, it's. But. And the more you do it, like, it's that expression that I know I needed at least, especially in the beginning of this year, I was like, I need to tell my story or at least explain some of these. And a lot of them comes from journal entries. It's like, yeah, you have some Aha. Moment. You know, a breakthrough. One of them recently for me was like, hey, I'm naturally a very curious and creative person, and I can go deep in so many ways, like all the way from music, art, working out, running, crazy marathon, like, all sorts of stuff. But I'm like, but if I don't create the time and space for that, then I'm stifling me as a person. So why the hell wouldn't I go hire an EA or someone to manage all my inboxes? Which drains my energy and takes a lot of time, helps me organize priorities, my calendar. It's like some of these editing, you know, it's like, these aren't things that are bringing me joy necessarily. So I'm like, how do I create more of life for me? And like, really, a lot of that comes from journal entries and then talking it out, either through podcasts with you or solos. And then. And then ultimately, hopefully, it becomes reality.

Yeah, no, that's true. It's like in the yin and yang of digital, it's like we can't live with it, we can't live without it. So we have to kind of separate out, like, what is serving us in a digital way and what is not and, like, getting help or, you know, boundaries or outsourcing. So, yeah, I think podcasting might be the. The most ultimate PR expression, you know, because audio, it's personable. You're storytelling, you're in real time. You're not, you know, you're in your voice, your tone. You're able to express yourself in a way that, you know. Yeah, you can turn your podcast, your audio into, you know, we're doing video right now and, you know, maybe we'll share it, but I just think, like, audio is just like, it's, it's the ultimate form of expression. And, you know, it's, it's. It's therapeutic and it's. It's efficient and effective.

Yeah. And there's a whole. I think. I think, Lisa, you and I should do a series, and definitely you'll be on my podcast. This might even be published.

Podcasting to PR series or podcasting.

I like it. Yeah. So maybe this will be the kickoff. I'll. I'll do a little. It's not simulcasting, I'm told. But yeah, maybe we'll go put this over there too. But I'm thinking out loud now.

Well, but, yeah, I'm totally ready for that. I know that you have a cutoff soon in, like, right now, but just drop a quick one liner about podcasting for profit and where we can go to sign up.

Sweet. Yeah, right now. I mean right now, get the checklist. Because I have this 16 point checklist that basically walks you through my thought pattern, all the stuff that I've learned over the years and experimented, but not only myself, but with clients and partners, you included, but Lisa. And in this checklist. So if you go to hustleandflowchart.com PR secrets that will take you there totally free. So hustleandflowchart.comPR secrets and then also just reach out to me. I'll just give you my email address. Joe hustleandflowchart.com Let me know what you thinking. I mean, I'm always happy to hop on calls with people who are genuinely interested and happy to do a quick 15 minute call or whatever with you. That kind of walks through what you got going on. If you have podcasting, I'm happy to help. And any anybody who's following Lisa, a friend of Lisa, is definitely a friend of mine. I know it's a cliche thing to say, but it's true. Like you bring good people around here. So thank you very much.

Well, thank you so much for being part of season three of Social PR Secrets. And I know you have to get on your next call, so thank you so much, Joe and namaste everybody.