PR Innovation and Branding in the Digital Age with Lisa Buyer

I think with AI there's lots of very cool applications that you can integrate with pr, but AI is only as good as the prompts that you're doing. And to come up with those creative prompts you have to have that mindset of like how can I use AI in a very personalized, brand focused way that is going to have the best in this case public relations outcome.

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So that's what I'm doing here for you.

Please share and enjoy.

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This is around was it round three? We were just doing the math and I feel like it's we've done probably many podcasts. We have never published quote unquote podcast because we chat all the time and do a lot of fun stuff around what you're doing with PR and marketing and wellness and yeah, it's it's cool to have you here so we can share you with everyone else now. How you doing?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back. I'm excited to share the journey. The journey continues in PR and wellness and marketing.

It does. And, and our journeys, they've always kind of had this nice interwoven thing going on, like, where it's like, give us similar experience to the different moves and pivots that I've gone through. And then over the years, Matt, him being the co host here. But the last time we chatted, we were just looking it up. It was all about web3 metaverse and leveraging PR in that whole sphere, which a lot of us, I don't know, it still kind of seems super untapped. And that was last year. So. I know there's been so many advancements since we last chatted.

Yeah. And I mean, AI is one of them, but I think, you know, we're still in this kind of. I don't know if we would say messy middle, the early Messy Middle of Web3, but we're definitely looking at the next evolution or phase of the Internet and web and tech. And whether you're in PR or marketing or, you know, whatever phase of entrepreneurship you're in, it's so important to making sure that you're like, you know, keeping your pulse on tech and what's happening and don't get left behind.

Yeah. And that's where it's always been exciting to learn from you because you're so tapped in with, I mean, the people, you know, that you're always doing these cool summits, female disruptors as a whole thing. You have as well, a publication that kind of what it mixes health, wellness, technology, pr. I mean, you have everything integrated. And that's what I've always enjoyed. When we chat, it's like we could just chat for hours because there's so many interesting things, you know.

Definitely, definitely. And I think just with technology and the advances, we have so many opportunities as brands to, to take, take, take the empower us to do our own PR and create our own earned media, whether it's having a publication, your own brand publication, having your own brand podcast, doing things within your brand, like a brand, you know, having your, like a brand journalism type of outlook, and then also doing the traditional outreach where you're guesting and going in front of new audiences. But there's so much that a brand can do on their own to. To get social proof and earn media. That's. That's in addition to Outreach to journalists and earning media.

Yeah, earned media. I know we're like, we use like different terms sometimes. I'm always learning from you because you come from this PR background and you have such a history there. You know, you've been a professor teaching it as well. So it's like you've worked with all these different interesting companies and you brought a lot of people to this podcast. So thank you. One coming up pretty soon here, Dr. Savage, so can't wait to share him as well. But how about you catch us up and kind of do like a short little synopsis of what the last maybe year or two have been for you? Because I know you've transitioned from agency life to some new stuff. And then let's pivot into kind of like this theme that we were talking about, which is essentially your definition and how you see pr, because it's different than what's normally said. So I think I want to like, break that little mental construct or whatever that people might have around PR.

Yeah. So I've been in the PR industry for 20 plus years. When I started out, it was. It was pre digital for the most part. Digital was just coming on the scene. But what the way that I was taught PR and the way that I started my agency was based on traditional public relations, and that's still definitely the foundation. And as I developed my PR agency and grew and expanded, I was always looking at technology and how you could make things different in PR than the way it had been and not changed for over 100 years. So I was always innovative in my PR practice. And whether it was adding visuals, whether it was tapping into search engines, whether it was tapping into social media included in the PR strategy, I was always doing that at my agency, which was getting. Keeping it one step ahead, making us stand out and differentiate ourselves from the competition, from PR professionals and agencies really helped during the Great Recession differentiate when all budgets were being dropped. And if they're gonna keep pr, they need to have a really good reason to keep it. And during the Great Recession, that's when I was integrating SEO and social media into the mix of public relations. And that really helped. Good news, bad news. When you're innovative and you're staying ahead of the curve, there's a lot of education that needs to be done for prospects, clients, your team, to make sure that they're, you know, doing the best practices that are new and innovative that, that are, you know, keeping your. Keeping you different. Right. And setting your. You apart. So that, you know, led to me writing a book that led to me doing a lot of workshops and doing a lot of speaking at different conferences, SEO conferences on, you know, SEO through the lens of a PR professional, social media marketing conferences, using social media for PR and that, you know, I love it, I'm passionate about it. And in 2020 I just realized that all of these, these things that I was doing, even though I had a book, even though I was teaching workshops, I felt that I had to take a step back and say okay, is it really worth it to go one to one and do these done for you services or should I take all of this that I'm doing and training and do it one to many and create digital courses and digital trainings and make it and accessible to in house teams to marketing professionals, PR professionals. And so that's what I've been working on for the past about a year and a half and really taking the time to explore web3 what's happening with you know, the whole roller coaster of crypto and the metaverse and technologies like AI. And you know, also you mentioned Female Disruptors was this little magazine that I started and really looking at taking that to the next level. And so it, it gave me time to take a step back and you know, see where, where everything was going do and then come to offer some of these new trainings and new techniques to PR marketing professionals. And also keeping your wellness and your mindset is so important in self care and you know it like I do, like web3 is 10 times more dangerous to your, to your, you know, your brain and stress and anxiety because it's this 24, 7 new thing and everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon to it. So nobody wants to miss anything. So yeah, so you know, the journey over the past year and a half is really taking a step back and moving away from the one to one to one done for you services. I still do audits and consulting and teaming up in collaborations but looking at really how can I take my practice, my PR modern PR secrets and PR secret practice and show the masses how to do it and then also keep in mind that in order to really be successful, keeping your wellness in check with it.

And that's where it's such a great blend and that's where we've connected, you and I for so many years. I mean what you. We met through my podcasting mastermind and I guess the training that came before that, but in Orlando, Florida at podfest and that was like right before the pandemic. It was like the last event I think in the us or something before.

Exactly, yeah.

Everything shut down.

That's a great example of me being from the public relations background, how much I believe in, for example, the audio experience and podcasting as part of the public relations practice. And they're, you know, whether it's guesting or hosting your own podcast, like I'm such a believer in that. And now, you know, we'll talk about that. You know, also is just how podcasting and technology, what's happened in the past year and a half has, has. It's amazing and it's made it more accessible. You know, you can be more efficient, more productive, more professional. And it's, it's just a really exciting time to be in public relations and you don't have to have a large budget to do a lot of these things that, you know, just going back to like we talked on earning media, like, what does that mean? Earned media? And earned media is much more valuable. Earned media is basically media that you earn. You don't pay for it. It's not advertising. It's not an advertising campaign. You either, either earn. Earn it through, you know, somebody hears about it. It's a third party type of endorsement credibility. You know, I'm a guest with you, you're a guest with me. You kind of had to earn your way to be the guest, you know, and vice versa. I had to earn my way to, to be a guest on your show. It's not just automatic thing. And when somebody hears you in an interview or reads about you or something like that, it's. It's much different than seeing an ad. And you know, advertising definitely matters, but it's, it's com. You need to have a balance of the two, the advertising media, paid media, and earned media.

I feel like it's like an intent thing, you know, and. Well, there's a couple things because it's like, there's the perspective of, you know, us being the creator of this media. And then we have the. The side of the, I guess the consumer of the. Or the observer, reader, listener watcher. And there's a perception when it's more when it's earned rather than a paid ad that might be pushing at you, you know, pushing a message.

So somebody's going to say, hey, I heard you on Hustle and Flowchart. Somebody's not going to say, oh, hey, I saw your Facebook ad.

Right.

You know, like, that's just not social proof. It's.

I've been told that before, but that was more because, like, we were just everywhere putting ads all over the place.

Yeah, yeah, but it's, it's also like you're not going to use that as social proof, unlike the footer of your website. As seen on Facebook, you know.

Yeah, as seen on all the ad platforms, you.

Exactly. As seen on Google.

Okay, true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and see, that's a good point. I love the distinctions that you make around earned media because there's a lot of terms for it. You know, when I'm teaching podcasting, it's like podcast guesting. It's, it's all the different blog posts or things you can get featured on top lists. You know, like I've been featured many times on like the top, you know, 10 marketing podcasts and that's. It's earned through like sometimes it's outreach to these people and figure out a, some kind of way to give value to them. You know, it's usually they're looking for content, but then like that spiderwebs across the web is online, you know, to different sites. So it's, it's pretty cool. It's like you can earn media in a huge handful of places and then it starts to do this like network effect thing.

Yeah, I mean the lists are great. I mean, you know, sometimes you have to pay to enter to be considered in the list. Like my husband's a builder in Orlando and we have the Orlando Business Journal and they do their, their list every week of the top builders or top banks or whatever. It is the theme of the week and it's worth it to submit to be considered because if you make the list, I mean it doesn't guarantee that you're going to make the list, but you're, you're thrown in there to be considered and then that's something that you, somebody can't take that away from you that you were in the top 40 or top 10 builders or you know, for you, the top podcasts. And I mean, perception is reality. Nobody knows behind the scenes like exactly how that went down, but I mean, typically it's earned because you, you know, had to be considered to, to be, you know, to get that media interview or to get considered for the list or um, you know, to get featured as in a product roundup or you know, get, yeah, get, get featured as a, you know, just an, an opinion and, and a thought leadership quote on maybe like where the industry is going in xyz.

Yeah. And that's where I've been told like in podcasts specifically, maybe it was you or maybe it's Chris Kremezos. Over at podfest. But it's like these awards that they give out in different industries. Like there's podcasting awards that you can submit your podcast to or I'm sure this is the case for like blogs or whatever else as well. But they're all niche. Like there's little industries and there's not a lot of competition. Like not a lot of people know of these things. And when you do that, now you have an award, but also you're getting featured in, in some places that can then get picked up by another place. And then it's like this whole spiderweb thing happens again.

Yeah, definitely. And you know, you can, there's a bunch of different ways that you can go about it. But like typically if you start, you know, maybe your first, you get on a list or you get an award and you get like a little bit of a mention, just media mentions we call them. And then those little media mentions could be just like the little nugget that leads, you know, to the next opportunity from maybe a journalist that might see it or maybe that just validates why they should interview you for, you know, this next opportunity. So those little things all create this foundation that, that really make a difference. And it could also be the opposite. You could just get this, like get really lucky and get interviewed by the top tier media for, you know, Wall Journal, USA Today, or you know, something like that where it, and, and then it's awesome. But it's the part that's not awesome is that then you think like, oh, this is so easy. I can get interviewed by the top tier media my first try. And then it's really hard to, to replicate that and like keep that level of like, you know, standard going. You have to have very realistic expectations that that's not going to happen every month.

Yeah, that is very true. It can go in waves or you just got lucky. And I know there's a lot of ways to what like HARO help a reporter out just to kind of get on the radar of some, some folks in media.

Yeah, yeah. Like there's a lot like HARO is a great example where, you know, journalists are just looking for sources. And you know, HARO is somewhere where journalists will like say, oh, I'm doing the story on this and I need experts on, you know, you know, maybe like self care gifts for Christmas or something like that. And you know, just it's a lot time consuming. You have to completely monitor it. And then if you are submitting, whether it's HARO or something like that the advice that, you know, this is a best practice that we did, you know, you know, internally at the agency is that you want to make sure that you immediately submit. So the reporters and media will say that, you know, they'll get their first 10 responses and then if they feel like they have like a good, they'll stop looking. So if you're not one of the first to submit or if you get an inquiry from the media, like you want to immediately like let them know, hey, I got this and I'll get back to you in like, you know, the quickest amount of time possible. But if they don't hear an answer, they'll just move on. So it's, the media cycle is very quick. Journalists are typically on like really short deadlines and you know, they're not going to wait around for your answer, they're just going to move on to the next person on their list. So that's just something to keep in mind and could be super frustrating. If you're an agent PR agency and you're working with clients and you know, if, if you're listening and you're on the client side and you're working with an agency, how critical it is to be super responsive and, and very engaging with your. Whether it's your in house PR staff or a PR agency or somebody that's working on behalf of you to try to get you media coverage because they're at the mercy of the media and when they get a request it's, it needs to be acted on immediately otherwise you'll lose it.

Yeah, no, that's great. And I've heard the same thing. It's, it's nice to have someone and if it's not you, someone on your team that's just managing these things are always, you know, the alerts are going to them, they can respond. Maybe they could respond with you know, a one sheet or something that at least gives them some substance around your expertise. And then from there then it's yeah, clarify, maybe answer something specifically asap.

Exactly. Just so they know someone's on the other end of that email. You know, because a lot of times, you know, if you have on your media center of your website or you have the contact it's info at, you know, that's not a name. It's kind of like somebody actually going to get it. Is somebody going to answer?

Yeah, I was going to give it a resource because I heard this, I think it was in the podcast group we're in the one that, yeah, we just wrapped up but quoted. Have you ever used that? Q W O T E D? It's like a haro alternative is what someone was saying.

So, yeah, there's a bunch of them that, you know, sometimes they're like, very, you know, vertical specific. There's some just for podcasts that I get an email like once a week that podcasts that are looking for guests, and if you fit the, you know, fit that what they're looking for, their theme, then, you know, you can submit right from the email. So there's a lot of different, you know, those types of, like, feeders. But I also recommend just, you know, creating your own hit list, top 10 hit list of where you'd like, you know, you'd like to end up maybe in the next year and keep it short and very focused and keep that. Those. The journalist or the media on that end of it. Keep them engaged. Not just like trying to sell them your story, but keep that. Keep them engaged with helpful things that, you know, maybe you're sharing their story, liking their story, maybe sending them a report. They might be interested in doing everything that you can to really help them out and create a relationship with them because that really is ultimately, like, the best thing to do. It's not always, you know, 100% necessary to get every positive outcome, but the more you can create this trusted relationship with the media on the other side of, you know, that that would be like a good fit for your audience and would be. You would be a good fit for their audience. Vice versa, they see that fit. That's. That's the most important thing.

I like that. And creating a kind of a referral network of opportunities, once you land a few of these, establish the relationship. It's kind of similar to podcasting too, right? It's like.

Yeah. And I was just thinking about this, like, right before we. We came on and, you know, today versus 10 years ago versus 20 years ago. But even like the past five to 10 years, like, I mean, really, like, influencers could be considered journalists. Like, I can, you know, everyone is really their own journalist. And if they have a following and they're just recommending something or sharing a story to their network, I mean, all of that really helps. So looking at influencers as, you know, potential relationship building and, you know, letting them know, hey, like, you might like this product or you might like to know this about my brand is really just as valuable as reaching out to, you know, an editor, a writer or a producer that, you know, would also be like, for more of, like, traditional or digital media.

Well, let's, let's do this really fast. I'm, I'm curious of how, because you have a different perspective when it comes to pr. And I want to tackle this one asap, because we gave some good actionable tips already, and people are probably like, okay, that's a great idea. You know, that's something to do. That's a little campaign I can run, or should it be? So I want to get your definition of what PR is and isn't. And like, you know, what are most people getting wrong? Or maybe there's some kind of rewiring we got to do so we can, we can do this effectively.

My biggest thing with public relations, and like I said, PR is earned media. It could be considered social proof, and it's something that's more editorialized versus advertorial. It's not paid for typically. So the one thing is that public relations is, is it's never a campaign. It's never like, oh, let me just try out one PR campaign and see how it works. Where you can definitely do that with advertising there, you know, it's. It's campaigns that have a start and a finish. So with public relations, I like to say PR is a business practice. It's always on. It's like you're, you're always going to do accounting regularly. You know, you have the bookkeeping and then your accounting part. With public relations, it's something that, it's an effort that's always, there's always some sort of outreach going and you can have different themes. And, you know, some people might call like, the monthly theme is a monthly campaign, but when I say PR isn't a campaign, I mean, there's not a start and a stop to PR ever. And if you're just going to say, oh, and have the attitude, let me just try out public relations. Let me just do one press release and see what happens. Like, don't even do it, you know, because it's almost like your, your expectations have to be there as very realistic and that this is a slow and steady type of process practice. It's not a campaign. And so just making sure that you have a process in place and that like yoga, Yoga is a practice. It's never going to be perfect. You're never looking for that perfect pose. But, you know, little by little, if you're doing the practice, you'll go deeper and deeper into results for, you know, your body and your mind and your spirit. With public relations, the deeper you go and you continue the process, you know, then you're going to grow these relationships that will become, you know, deepen your, your relationships and your engagement with media opportunities and whether it's podcasting, traditional digital influencers.

And that's where I keep thinking of like, stay in the game longer. Like the longer you're doing this, the more consistent you are. Yeah, the more relationships you establish. Because I'm always framing it in the terms of podcasting, just what I know most here. But at the same time it's, it's exactly that. It's, it's just an ever going marketing campaign at the end of the day focused on earned media and things that can establish you as a credible resource or whoever brand, I guess. And yeah, so what are, so you mentioned pr, our press releases. That is. So are they dead? Do they have a place in this? How, how do you integrate it? Since that's like the most obvious thing people probably think of when they hear pr.

Yeah. So press releases have, you know, been around for over 100 years and their press releases are not dead at all. They, they have evolved into different shapes and forms and visuals and you know, a press release can be a real, a press release. I mean, you look at the Kardashians, you know, they use their own platform, social media platforms to make announcements. And a lot of brands, even, you know, small and large brands, they'll use their social media platform to make an announcement versus sending out an announcement, let's say to the journalist, to then make the announcement to their audience. So there's different ways that, you know, we're doing these announcements, these press announcements or these newsworthy announcements. So it could be, you know, it could be in, you know, threads. It could be, you know, creating a video on YouTube and announcing it on your YouTube channel. It really depends on where you have your audience. You know, the, the primary channel that your audience might be if that's the route you're going to go and, and make this, you know, announcement. Or you know, it could be a learning moment where you're educating your audience on something that you're not really making an announcement on something that is like a new product, but you're showing them how to do something and teaching them how to do something themselves and creating that relationship between your brand and your audience and that know like, and trust and awareness, consideration, conversion and PR really falls in all three of those, you know, parts of the funnel. PR is part of the awareness, it's part of the consideration and it also helps confirm, you know, when somebody's making a decision, should I buy this, should I do this? It gives them that final bit or can give them that final bit of credibility. Like, okay, this is why I'm going to do this. They were featured in, you know, this trusted publication that they won this award. So. And then it happens again. You know, it's then rinse and repeat. The cycle happens again. You know that there, there's this constant flow of messaging and storytelling and news and educating and even entertaining that's happening from your brand that is making, you know, an impression and a difference in earning you media and earning trust with your audience.

Yeah. And that's where I, I love the trust factor because it's, it's. Well, I love this whole thing because it really does integrate all the way through. And I like how the stages of awareness, I know there's different things, labels that people might talk about, but you're hitting them at all the phases and this work, that's why it's so integrated. I just think of PR is marketing is probably some core, well, is a core function of your business. If you want to, you know, attract more of the audience that you want. It seems like you can almost curate the inbound if you're conscious about what kind of announcements you're making, the content you're creating, the people you're reaching out to and want to, you know, do these partnerships with, with media.

Definitely. And I think, you know, one of the mistakes I also see being made is that you can repurpose evergreen type of news and content. So I see brands like, on this, like constant, like creating content, creating content, creating content. And there's so, and you know what, I'm very guilty of it. But there's, you know, meanwhile this content that they've been creating, they can go back and, and reuse for different purposes, for different audience collaborations or to help, you know, further grow their relationship with the media. So, you know, it doesn't have to be always new content. Just being mindful of the content you do have. And then how can you use your time wisely to, to use that content that's already been created? So I see that as a mistake. And if you're working with an agency, you know, unfortunately, you know, agencies have multiple clients and typically, you know, they're, they're multitasking multiple clients, multiple things that are happening and juggling a lot. And that's one of the downfalls of having an agency versus having somebody in house that is that that is heading up your public relations, whether it's even, you know, the, the business owner, the entrepreneur, the media loves that. They're the ones that are kind of on the front lines, but it's not always realistic. But having one person that is in charge of your pr, that's within your brand, I think is much more effective. Be realistic. But just that's one thing to keep in mind with working with agencies is that, you know, your account manager, you know, maybe has five to seven different accounts that they're working on. And with public relations, it's not as easy to manage and you know, say, okay, tomorrow I'm going to work on this, this and this. Because you don't know what's going to pop up tomorrow. An opportunity that you might plan on working on, you know, this client tomorrow, but tomorrow this other client had some disaster that happened that you have to drop everything and then the client that you're supposed to work on gets pushed. And that's just the reality of working with multiple brands and multiple clients from, you know, if you're working with an.

Agency, that makes sense. And that's where it goes back to the timeliness of these things. Like, you see an opportunity drop, you know, right in your lap. And it's like, you know, if an agency is, is seeing that, or maybe they're not seeing it because they're not paying attention to your account at that moment. But either way, even if they are, I feel like there's, there might be a disconnect there. So you could miss opportunities pretty probably pretty often, I would imagine.

Yeah. The other thing that I, you know, recommend keeping in mind when you're hiring, whether it's an agency or whether you're hiring somebody to do your public relations or you're trying to do it, is making sure that you're using the up to date best practices. Whoever you're hiring, I would ask how, how have they been trained in pr? Are they just learning? Are you, are they learning at your expense? Because they have to play catch up. And so those are just really important questions. And unfortunately the state of the public relations industry, in my opinion is not catching up at the speed that they need to be. Like, I felt this huge sense of urgency when I went to my first search engine marketing conference as a PR professional. And I'm thinking.

I have so much, like, this is like an emergency. Every PR professional is going to be doing the same thing I'm doing and like this. But that hasn't really happened yet. Even with, I mean, yes, most PR agencies understand the criticalness of how to leverage social, but I would say that senior PR professionals, it's too overwhelming if they haven't been kept keeping up. And junior PR professionals just don't have that strategic expertise. They have the tech side of it, but they don't have that strategic expertise to be like really robustly trained to deliver.

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Followed for years now.

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That makes sense. It's interesting like dichotomy happening where it's the old guard for better use, better word or not. But it's like you have the more strategic. You had to think out specific plans with pr. It wasn't as integrated and how quick it is now with the web, but now you have social and that's a whole nother speed of itself. And then you layer in things like web3 metaverse, ad platforms even, because I know that's all part of this to enhance the PR that you are getting. So it's definitely, I don't know. Yeah, it's an interesting time. So I mean, are there, I guess to help folks out when, let's say they have someone on their team or they're trying to do this themselves, Is there a framework or some kind of methodology that keeps people focused in. And I know we talked about HARO and doing these things kind of quickly, but any best practices to make sure you're kind of balancing those two sides of the coin?

Yeah. So that what we did and what I still recommend doing as a framework is, you know, looking at that three months maximum out and theming out your next 30, 60, 90 days with matching up what's happening. You know, you have, you have to communicate. PR has to communicate with marketing and with advertising and with the business. Like what are your business goals and objectives? That's what your PR goals and objectives need to match up with a hundred percent. So you know, if you're launching a new product or coming out with a new service or launching a podcast, I mean, what is newsworthy? What's happening within the next 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? And when you can identify two to three newsworthy angles or topics, then you have your start of your framework and then that's what you start with, then backing into. Like where would this news make the most sense besides our own channels? Where what third party outlets, podcasts, media outlets, local media.

YouTube channels, you know, where, where, where can I go and bring the story that would make sense to share it with their audience? And when you have this, then this little mini media list, that's what you focus on and you break it down into days and weeks and there's something happening, you know, for sure every week, you know, it could be a couple hours a day that you're doing outreach and kind of massaging this and, and leveraging SEO, so making sure that if you do a press release that it's optimized with keywords so that you're, you're, you're optimizing it for the maximum results and visibility of not just getting picked up in, in Google News and search engines, but, but these journalists, to make their life easier, they're using technology to get notified when news comes out. So if you're not using these just best practices, optimization, SEO writing, applying to public relations, you don't have to be an SEO tech specialist. You, you can just, you know, take some courses on SEO writing and apply that to your PR writing and you know, that will cover then the search engines and then applying those same optimization practices to your social media to get the maximum benefit of what you're sharing on social. Like I can't even tell you how many trainings I do and I will look and do audits where the, either the posts don't include, for example, hashtags or they include the same hashtags in every post and then it becomes diluted and you know, it doesn't, it doesn't end up working.

That makes sense. It's get discoverable, you know, and do these best practices. And SEO pays off. I mean it has for this podcast, it has for other clients of mine and partners. And you might as well do the work, figure out wherever you're publishing, figure out the 80, 20 of optimizing that post because it's just as easy to just. Well, it's, that's the easiest time to do it, you know, it's just.

Yes. So you'll, you'll get triggered, your journalists will get notified when and you know, if you're optimizing your news well enough, they'll either find you on social or get notified, you know, by let's say a Google Alert or something similar to that that they might have set up where, you know, if you just didn't worry about it and kept it generic and didn't really take that time to optimize it, you know, then might as well not do it, you know, exactly. It's like, and public relations professionals should definitely be, have a very basic to, you know, advanced level understanding of Google Analytics so that you can go in Google Analytics and you can see, oh, this traffic came from this publication that I got this, you know, the story in. And Google Analytics, when you go in, you'll see, you know, organic traffic, paid traffic, etc. And so organic traffic would be the same as we're doing these definitions in terminology. So organic traffic is the same as earned media in my opinion, which is also the same as public relations editorial type of type of content. So PR falls under that bucket of organic earned media when you're looking at Google Analytics. Or it could also look come under referring traffic. But these are just things that I find like a lot of public relations professionals don't really think that they need to know. Oh, that's not, that's not my department. Yeah. And it's just makes it so when you're hiring somebody, these are just things that I would say, do they know Google Analytics? Are they using it? If they don't ask you for access to Google Analytics, that's a Problem, like, how are they actually measuring? Like, I want to see what is organic increasing as you continue to do your public relations practice, is it having an impact on your organic or your referral traffic that you can definitely see in Google Analytics? So the problem with pr, it's, it's very hard to measure, you know, as you're going through the process, but there are ways that you can measure that. Sometimes PR professionals just don't, don't, don't take the time to do. And you know, they're giving you just, you know, we used to call these clipping books, you know, and you know, when you were in like a newspaper, a magazine, you like, cut it out and like put it in a clipping book for the client. And so we're, we're going behind, you know, beyond that in today's modern, you know, modern age. But, you know, still, you know, getting those media mentions, you want to know about them. And those men, those also make a difference in influencing Google search. When somebody's searching for your brand.

Oh, it's, it's like, those are the best. You know, when you see some new website starting to refer traffic over and you're like, I didn't even talk to them. It's like they, they picked me up from something they saw or heard or whatever. And yeah, keeping an eye on that, having alerts set up in Google Analytics or any of the properties that you're tracking, I love. I'm just going to give a shout out Ahrefs. Like they.

Yeah, Ahrefs is awesome.

Yeah, there's, there's so many different alerts you could do there just to analyze, you know, backlinks and things like that. And I was gonna mention too, all this SEO talk, those listening, like, definitely go check out the Gert Malik episodes which I've done with him, all about SEO. He's an SEO master. And it's exact, it would pair up perfectly with what you're saying, Lisa, because it's all about optimizing content and that applies everywhere. I mean, every. So best practices, check those out, listen.

To that episode go. You know, if there's a local SEO conference or something that you can, you know, learn via YouTube, but definitely going outside the PR box or making sure that your team is not just, you know, is focusing also on bringing SEO and, and social media optimization into the PR practice.

Yeah. Yep. And then the second last point, on that point I was giving, arming the potential partner to publish you with links, you know, like enough links. I don't know if you can go as much as a UTM trackable link. They're probably not going to do that so much but at least a link back to your site or some of the resources that you provide.

Yeah. And it depends on the publication. It's, you know, it doesn't ever hurt to ask for sure. So always ask but just have the right expectations that you know, they're publications have different editorial rules and you know, some of them like know what, you know, they're kind of, they've been abused by.

Oh yeah.

You know. And so you just have to always ask but also just know that even the media mentions without a link also are influencing the signals and the algorithm with, with Google. So it doesn't always have to have the link to, to really like make it make an impact.

Nice. Okay, that's good to know. That's like a little thing thing for me too. All right, so I want to shift unless there's something that we might have missed. But I would love to talk more on the wellness side because this is like the, I feel like that makes you super unique in this PR marketing world is your focus on wellness and how you integrate that into business and all the stuff you're doing here. And really the key thing is to keep you in the game longer and not burn out as you're maybe adventuring into this new world.

So, you know, being an early adopter, being innovative, being ahead of the curve, being, you know, I was, you know, probably taken down earlier than most on the whole impact of, you know, digital 24 7. So with that I wrote my book Digital Detox Secrets and I became very passionate on mental health and like, what can you do to overcome like, you know, the different things that the fatigue that you're being caused and anxiety and stress from being in, you know, it's, it's, it's hard being in digital marketing. It's hard being in PR. You could get a call like at 6 o' clock at night and you know, you could end up working till 9 just to get the story done with the reporter. So because the of the.

Public relations and how it's so unique, you have to really have the right mindset and the right expectations. And in order to do that I really, I firmly believe and statistics show that you have to make sure that you're taking care of yourself, you're getting sleep, that you're practicing things like meditation and you're really doing as much as possible for the right brain access of creativity. Because PR has changed so much and so is digital Marketing that creativity is really our superpower. And you can't just, you know, if you're tired and stressed out and anxious and multitasking, you are not tapping into any creativity there.

That's true.

So you'll come up with your best ideas and story angles and be able to stay focused and have clarity and maybe think of things and new things that you wouldn't have thought about is if you, if you're taking care of yourself, your mind, body, spirit, through practices like, you know, meditation and yoga. And it doesn't have to be hours a day, it could be a 10 minute walk in nature. And I hear this all the time, you know, and this is, it's becoming very mainstream to, to point these things out. But, but when I'm talking about the connection specifically with public relations outcomes, because public relations today you have to be creative. You have to have patience and expectations and almost that manifest that power. The law of attraction. And how are you going to do that law of attraction if you're just completely, you know, a train wreck of stress and anxiety and can't think straight? So if you really are going to want to attract these editors, you and the journalist, then you have to be as creative as possible and be very deliberate and purposeful and have that, that mindset that this isn't, this might not happen this week and that's okay. But we're gonna, we're gonna look at the doing, we're gonna look at the planning and also the mindset and the intuitiveness is something that you can't access unless you really are, have a healthy wellness routine that you're doing, that's for sure.

I mean, I'll just some quick thoughts that come to mind is, you know, I'll pack my. Lately I've been packing my days a lot because I have a baby coming and all these fun opportunities and projects and partners and something we're working on too. Lisa it's like I was up pretty dang late last night and I've some of these days where I feel like, or if I'm having too many, not too many, but a lot of podcasts, you know, let's say a lot of talking or listening or just, just brainy work like copywriting. What I like to do is, like you said, go outside, do some of these things, get in the sun, breath work. I've been like this morning I've been doing this kind of right when I wake up now when I know that I didn't maybe get enough sleep or maybe it wasn't Great sleep. But Yoga Nidra or NSDR, like, 15 minutes on YouTube, it's like such a reboot for my brain, nervous system. And then it's like that grogginess kind of goes into almost like a flow state. It's tough. It's weird to describe, but no.

And it definitely works. And that's, that's why, you know, just looking at it like, okay, not. You don't have to wait till tonight to get the best night's sleep. You could revive yourself with yoga. 10 minutes of yoga, Nidra, 10 minutes of qigong. You know, something to get your energy, your chi, your flow going. And that will also then help you at the end of the day, wind down so that you'll get a better night's sleep. So it's, it's, you know, it's these little, like, micro moments that you can do to really recharge yourself. And, you know, Dr. Savage, you know, I've learned so much from working with him that, you know, he, you know, also recommends different things like, you know, taking breaks every few hours. And those are just general for general entrepreneurs in general. But, like, when I'm talking specifically for pr, it's you. You have to step away from your computer. You have to take that break. Because you take a break, go on the treadmill, take a walk, and all of a sudden, like, you. You come up with an idea. You come up with that story angle, you can come up with that response for the media that's going to set you apart.

Yeah. And it's the creative brain. It's the right brain. And I. It's weird. Yeah. I haven't thought of it that way, but it's intuitively. That's like when all my best ideas come together. And it's like I had one last night as I was in the garage. I have a little. I have a whole workout, whole home gym thing. And I have a big whiteboard board on the board on the wall just for this reason. And something just clicked and it was like a connection of. It was like connecting things. And it would never have come by grinding away at the keyboard or like researching and. Yeah, I'm sure that's feeding the brain, but it wasn't that time until I stepped away. I was calm, I was relaxed. I think I was working out a little bit. So it's like brain was flowing, all that stuff. They're all good things.

Yeah, like. Like the whole frequency. Frequency and energy work and things like that help you so much. Like, not only come up with these ideas and clarity and give you space in your brain. But it, I mean I, I wake up now instead of like I used to watch the Today show almost every day. I still watch a little bit of it, but now I put on YouTube and I just find like a positive energy frequency type of music and listen.

To that like binaural beats kind of thing.

Yeah. And you know, if I'm, if I'm stressed, I'll find energy frequency that's for, to reduce stress and anxiety. And it really does like make a difference. And it's subtle and it might sound like a little woo woo, but it really, there's proven statistics that show that you know, the difference in your brain from listening to this type of sound frequency and the energy work that you can do in your body with things like qigong, where it's just 10 minutes in the morning, can make such a huge difference to your flow and your state of mind. And you know, in public relations it can be super frustrating because your client or you might get, you might get frustrated with yourself and be like, this is ridiculous. It's taking so long. Nothing's working. You know, and I didn't, I haven't gotten, I just talked to somebody the other day. They're like, well, we started this in August and if we don't have any results by November, then we're going to really rethink this. And I thought, you know, then that's not the right mindset. It has to be, you know, look at the possibilities, look at the options, you know, be patient, look at the progress that you've made and not what, what hasn't happened. Look at what has happened because that's going to get you closer to your, the outcome.

Yeah, that's, that is the outcome and that's again staying in the game longer and it's that marathon and that's with any, any training.

Maybe you do need to change something, you know, but not stop. So you make tweaks and adjustments, look at what worked, what isn't working and make those adjustments but don't just stop.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, stopping then you're, you're kind of just laying over and it's like, well, that didn't work.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah, that's, I mean there's so, for someone who, because that's the one thing I wanted to make sure it came across is like, okay, this isn't woo woo stuff. You know, like I mentioned yoga Nidra nsdr the way that, I mean, I've heard of yoga nidra before and tried it but when I heard nsdr, which is I think the same thing pretty much, it was Dr. Huberman on Huberman Lab neuroscientist. I mean, the guy is brilliant. I'm sure most people have heard of him or heard some of his, seen his clips. It's like all this science is really backing this stuff now. Qigong energy. I mean, yeah, it's not woo woo. So it's like if you're.

No, no, it's scientifically backed. I mean, I mean, who doesn't look at their, you know, I have a Fitbit or you have the aura ring and you're tracking your heart rate and you're tracking your sleep score. I mean all of these personal analytics are, are, you know, an example of, you know, you do, you, you do yoga nidra. Like, I don't know if you've done this before, but you do yoga nidra before you do it. If you look at your heart rate, look at it after, you know, meditate for 10 minutes, you can see your heart rate lowers. When your heart rate lowers, then you know, you're, you're accessing your, your breath is opening up like possibilities that your brain is otherwise suffocating.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's so true. And the flow, the right brain, creativity, I mean, I feel like it's more of a balance, but at the end of the day, I think it's like a calming, you know, there's like a grounding feeling. And I know people can think of like grounding woo woo again but it's like, it's that chill feel. And then you can approach calmly a situation with calm confidence and clarity. Knowing what the target is and you know, doing that work is probably going to come away from the screen again and it's discussions with yourself or maybe with someone else, but really establishing what's the key thing. So you know, the vision like that North Star of this thing, this endeavor you're after for your business and yeah, that's a campaign.

Breath is such an important thing. And there's actually statistics and reports that talk about how when you get an email from somebody that is like, you know, you're nervous about like you, whether it's good or bad. You stop breathing when you get that email and as you're reading it, you're, you're not breathing at all. So the breath work and that, you know, will eliminate that impulsiveness to respond right away or maybe trigger you to react in a way because you're holding your breath and you're not in A calm state. So getting yourself into that calm state so that you can think clearly. Because when you're not breathing, you're not thinking clearly.

No, we need that oxygen. And yeah, if it's too much CO2. I love breath work and it's a game changer. But I am so damn guilty because of exactly what you just said. I'll catch myself. At times I think I've gotten better, but yeah, holding my breath and for whatever reason, and I'm like, why am I so achy? Why do I feel kind of, you know, or reactive or a little more feeling, you know, like anxious, I guess would come up. Are there, are there any tips or like, do you have a, like a technique? Because I know there's a million breath techniques, but ways to remind yourself to.

Yeah, so what I do. So it's not really a technique, but with my Fitbit, I do the Fitbit premium and there's all kinds of.

Meditations, sleep sleeping meditations that were also like, set off the EDA that it automatically starts like measuring your heart rate and the breath work is included in that. So it includes like meditations from a combination of apps like Calm and Breathe. But I really like doing those where I'm actually, I just like getting my own personal analytics and seeing like my. How my heart rate was adjusted after doing that meditation.

That's good. Yeah. I use the Apple Watch and I have Weltery is the app name and same kind of thing. It measures heart rate variability, all the metrics, and it's cool to see these reports and it kind of gives you an idea based off of your energy. It's kind of like an energy focus thing. It's like, ah, maybe take it easy today. You know, your body's a little worked up for whatever reason. Or it's like, hey, go listen to some music, take a walk. You're a little tense right now.

Exactly.

It's cool to have those reminders and use tech and analytics. And I guess last bit, Lisa, because I know you're huge on the emerging tech world and we talked about metaverse and web3 and stuff like that, but AI and there's a lot of new emerging tech there. Can you quickly kind of give us how that integrates into what we've been chatting about and maybe some best practices tools that we should keep in mind.

I mean, so AI is now the latest and greatest tech darling for not just pr, but you can't even go a day or an hour without hearing some application with, with AI. And I think with AI there's lots of very cool applications that you can integrate with pr. But you know, one thing that you have to keep in mind is that AI is only, you know, this like, AI is only as good as the prompts that you're doing. And to come up with those creative prompts, you have to have that mindset of like, how, how, you know, how can I use AI in a very personalized, brand focused way that is going to have the best, in this case, public relations outcome. And so you, you can use AI in a very lazy way and you can tell when you get something that somebody created using AI in a very like, lazy way or just they don't know what, they don't know type of thing. But making sure that you are using artificial intelligence. And actually like we've been using artificial intelligence in pr, at least I have in ways that like, you might not even realize whether it's, you're using things like Grammarly, which has had, you know, it's been laced with AI for, since it came out. But over the past couple years, if you're using Grammarly Premium, you know, you'll, you're experiencing how the power of like, how grammar Grammarly can help you write things and rephrase things and take what you wrote and you know, turn it into, you know, different ways of saying things that might make sense to your audience, whether it be the journalist or whether it be, you know, you're writing something, an email that's going out to your audience and you want a certain voice or tone with it. So I feel like we've been using AI for a few years now, at least, at least I have. And you might, you know, everybody has been using it in some way, saying some way, shape or form. But now there's, there's different AI tools, so many that you even Canva has become, you know, laced with AI in ways that, oh my God, like I was, I was one of the first power users of Canva. And like, when you're using AI for visuals or even for, you know, writing.

There'S huge opportunities. But again, you really have to use these best practices for your brand and priority and just know that it's not going to be a silver bullet. I feel like Canva is just getting started with AI and you know, it's kind of like when you use Microsoft or you use Excel or PowerPoint, you're using what is like, the stat is like most people use like 1% of like what you could actually do. And so I feel like that's kind of where we are with like certain things with AI, like you know, I'm using it or we're using it, but are we really using it to its fullest extent? So Cast Magic is another like amazing tool and Chat chatgpt is the obvious one that so many people use. So a lot of times I'll use a combination like of Cast Magic and Chat GBT and you know, then I'll use Canva for certain things and something. It just depends. Like you can't just. I feel like I mix and match a lot, you know, like to get it where I want it. And I think that's the thing is that you have to not just say oh, this is going to take two seconds because I'm going to use AI to do it. The creativity behind it coming from you, the person is really what's going to make the difference.

Oh yeah. And there's, I mean Lisa, it's insane because yeah, I've been in the different masterminds I'm in and some of the folks I'm working with, collaborating with. There's ways to stack all the things you just said and then create a little automated process. Essentially it's AI agents and all these different things. We can automate a full on process based on just a handful of inputs and it gives you a pretty damn good output. I'm just thinking of like, let's say it's a, it's a pitch to you know, a media, someone in the media based off of, you know, you can, you can kind of use AI. But now even we all have the ability to create our own little AI software bots in a way to customize for a solution. And this is where I could, I see things going and it's starting to drop right now. I'm actually working on making some of these. But yeah, at the surface level like it's, it's, you gotta know these tools or you're gonna be left behind so fast. So fast.

So fast. Yeah, I mean that's the. What is that quote. Like AI isn't gonna replace you. Who's gonna replace you is the person that knows AI 100 and when it comes to PR, it's, it's, it's the same thing. Like you, you have to stay ahead of the curve and you have to go out of your box. And it's surprising that a lot of people just, just don't want to do that or don't feel like they have to and you know, they feel like they can just do the same thing that they've been doing and get the same success. And I mean, you know, it with any type of digital marketing, it just is, it doesn't, doesn't make sense to not continue to expand and broaden your horizons and do things different. So we're doing a, an event next month for sfima. I'm on the board of this organization in South Florida, South Florida Interactive Marketing Association. And the theme of that event is.

You know, forget Google and mainstream social media. Like what are some ways that you can, you know, you can make traction in these like unknown types of, you know, platforms that, or ways of doing things that you're not relying on Google and Facebook. And so I just.

What's that one that you can drop the example I know you were telling me right before.

So yeah, the one that was last night was marketing with gifts and it was, you know, using giphy is a platform that you can make, you know, these short form videos and they've been around forever, like GIFs have been around forever. But using them to stand out as a visual short form video for your brand and then making them available whether you're making stickers or make, or whether you're making short form video videos, gifts for your brand, for your email signature, you know, or tapping into the library of what's available. But when you, when you optimize your own within giphy, then other people can use them. You know, it could be just subtle branding and PR and awareness by them using your, the GIFs that you've created.

And that's an example of showing up on a platform could be organic, but it's now. Yeah, you're putting yourself out there, your, your own media on other platforms to get picked up. It's optimized. I mean it's all exactly what you've been saying. You know, that's, that's a form of earned media.

Yeah. And I mean if you're going to go through the trouble of creating an Instagram post or creating a GIF on giphy, then why aren't you going to optimize it so that you can get found by the maximum amount of people and maybe somebody else uses it and gets it in front of their audience.

I like it. I like it. Well, to wrap this up, Lisa, because we covered a lot. I mean we covered all the way from like defining what PR is and what it is not. And I think that was super helpful. All the different actionable steps all the way to the, the wellness side of it to keep our center because it's a creative process. It's not a, you know, outreach to a million people in one day. Automate the process and follow up with mail shake or whatever, where it's going to annoy, you know, because I see all this stuff pitch to pitch to me and I'm sure you do too. It's like these, it's so easy to use, you know, the AI tools and things at a, a very lazy level.

Yeah, AI is, is definitely can make you lazy and make the people that are working for you lazy. Because, yeah, I get those same emails and I actually started responding to some of them, like just to kind of test out if they respond back because they're so automated. Some did, some did and, and some didn't. But you know, it's just, it's so obvious, you know, when a pitch is just kind of spray and pray type of thing, where they're just sending it out to the masses. And yet maybe it has its time and place. You know, if you want to just get something out to the masses, of course, but do a paid distribution, you know, do. Do a paid distribution on a, on a platform like E Releases I really like because E Releases is going out to search engines and it's also going out to media that actually sign up for the topics that, you know, they're covering. And so that's a way to, to get it out to the masses where it's something that they've already signed up to get and they know that they're not the only one getting. And this isn't like an exclusive that, that you're mailing them, emailing them, but that's okay. You know, it's, it's the format that they already say they want versus Yep. I mean, what does your inbox look like? I mean, everybody is struggling with their inbox, right. And who wants to get these unsolicited pitches. But of. That's what PR is all about. I mean, you're trying to establish relationships and there's no, no more picking up the phone and, you know, calling somebody and saying, you know, hey, can I tell you about this story? You know, that just doesn't, doesn't work anymore. Like, obviously nobody wants you to call their, their personal mobile phone. Right. And nobody has landlines, nobody has company main company phones that you can call anymore. So it's all literally through establishing relationships and email and social media and just getting that warm feeling of like, it's okay now to like, tell you about this idea.

I kind of like it in a way. Yeah. Because it like forces us to get really like, if you want to cut through to someone, you got to know them. You gotta actually do your work, get an introduction, whatever it might be. Yeah, you can't just. I mean, obviously there's cold callers all the time, but it's like, it's so easy to ignore those. So, yeah, it's a new game, it's a different approach. And, and I don't know, I kind of like it.

You don't want to violate somebody's privacy, which you don't want to intrude on their texting or, you know, you know, calling somebody who calls people without like a note, you know, like, hey, do you mind if I call you first? Like, nobody just calls people anymore.

Right.

So you just.

Unless you really know them. And then that's.

Yeah, like, there's a few people that I'll just call.

Sure.

But not many. Not many.

I'm happy to be one of those, because I think you've done that before.

Yes, yes, yes.

Well, Lisa, so I gotta shout out something that we've been working on together because. And I'll make sure that this is earlier in the episode in the intro, but the Modern PR Secrets course that you've kind of referenced, it's more than a course, more like a masterclass. It's like a full on, not intensive, but like, it's everything. It's your playbook and it's the thing that you've, what, for 25 plus years in PR and marketing and technology and health and wellness too. You basically put it into this whole system that people can jump into and swipe for themselves. So give me a quick blurb on that and then we'll definitely point people that way.

Yeah, I like how you described it, like playbook or blueprint. And it's, it takes into account the traditional foundation of public relations. So it's not just like, oh, skip everything and go straight to this. But I, I made it in a way that's engaging, interactive, and not too overwhelming. So kind of like my book is designed the same way where you can jump into the masterclass. You called it Modern PR Secrets. And you can be like, I need to go straight to the SEO part, because that's my weak, weak link right now is SEO. That's what I want to know first. And you can jump to that part and not, you know, not worry about going in order. And you can kind of skip around and go to the, Go to the ones that you gravitate, gravitate to your brand and, you know, maybe where you need reinforcement or Relearn something and, and, you know, that's the other thing. You know, I go to these conferences and I'll. I'll go to a session I went to last year, and it. You hear something different or you need to hear things a different way multiple times to really absorb it and then put it into a practice. So you might also be looking at my course thinking, like, I kind of know all this. Do I really need. Need it? And I just think, like, whether you're an entrepreneur, business professional, or a PR professional, coach, solopreneur, it's a foundation for what you either need to do yourself or what you, what you need to know to hire somebody and ask the right questions and get the best results as quickly as possible. Because unfortunately, PR is like SEO. And SEO agencies are notorious for, like, having a bat. You know, what are you really doing? You know, it's like all under this mysterious hood. And public relations is very similar because it's a little. It's gray and it's not like, oh, we're going to get this, this amount of conversions on this date and blah, blah, blah. Like, you, you really have to just trust the process. And yes, we want the process to go as quickly as possible. And so this is just one way for you to ensure that you're not going to be losing time and money because you're either hiring the wrong people, you're doing things, things very antiquated that could have this, you know, could be laced with all the latest technology to get. Get you there quicker and more efficiently and keep your sanity.

Oh, my gosh. I know. And that's. Well, that's the, that's the whole layer that you always wrap around everything you teach, which is super helpful. I think it's the piece that most people are like, why is there wellness mixed in with pr? Or at least like, that could be the impression or like, why is she talking about yoga all the time? And it's like, do you want to be happily in the game? It's, it's why. It's like, like, that's what I talk about here. Build the business so it's fuel for your life. It's not burning you out in the process because you're no good to anyone if you're, if you're just, you know, struggling to even write an email or show up as your best self.

So definitely. And you mentioned the word burn. You know, burnout is like, you know, everywhere you turn, you. You meet somebody or you talk to somebody, you read about somebody that's suffering from burnout. And it's really just, you know, know what's an accumulation of, like, what digital has really done to us, and a little bit of the pandemic and working. Working remote and isolation and all of that. So, I mean, burnout is a real thing. It's. It's definitely, you know, I. I would say marketers, public relations professionals are more prone to burnout. Like entrepreneurs are, too, or just 24 7. So all of this, I mean, if it's not just PR and wellness, it's you, your business and wellness, like, you have to keep that in check. Check. Because you will burn out. There's no question.

Been there, been there, done that.

I know you have too.

So. Yeah, well, that's why we've connected so much over the years.

We're like, wow, you burned out that way too.

I did, too. And then that's happened a few other times, but. But there's always a comeback. And, like, you can. The faster you're in this practice, because it is a practice. Just like you said with yoga, business is a practice. Breath work, practice, you know, shoot, sleeping practice. Like, get really good at this shit, because if you don't, then something's gonna take you out when you probably don't realize it. And, yeah, you're not fully equipped for it. And that's where it gets easier. I feel like with that practice, the more you're. You're working that muscle. So I wanna shout out just a quick URL, since it's on top of my mind right now, to go get that modern PR Secrets course. And. And we'll make sure you're getting the. The best deal or whatever it is at whatever time, you know, but make sure to go to hustleandflowchart.com/mps. Let's do that. So hustleandflowchart.com mps just a little short thing. And that'll redirect to Lisa's stuff.

Just awesome. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that.

Of course. And Social PR Secrets, your podcast. I'm so happy that you've rebooted that into what season?

Reboot? Yeah, Season three.

Yeah. So go check it out. I've been on there. Thank you, Lisa.

Yes. Yes, definitely. Yeah. We cover topics, public relations, marketing, and also wellness and productivity efficiency. So, yeah, there's. There's something for everybody there if you're. Especially if you're in marketing or an entrepreneur.

Yeah, yeah, go do it. Go follow her. Go. Leave.

Leave a comment.

All right. I don't. I don't ask for this enough, but.

It'S like leave a comment and, you know, review.

I guess that's where I'm asking. Go, go leave a review on, on this show. Talk about Lisa, what you learned, and go, go find her, subscribe and go leave a review over there. Because. Because it's some good stuff and this is the long term journey. So it's not just a campaign. Just take that out of your mind. It's practice.

It's a practice. It's a practice. And if you leave a review, then I feel like we earned it. And that's earned media.

I like it. I like it. There you go. All right, Lisa, well, we'll do this again sooner than later. All right? Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, all right.

That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live if.

You need to do the work.

But you know, work can be fun.

And it should be fueling for your life.

So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is 10 on your friend, tell on your family, send an email to your list writing a review or whatever it might be. Everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast and I will see you next time.