Rob Kosberg - How To Publish And Market A Book Into Millions In Sales

So I basically trashed that whole thing. And I took too long, roughly the next year to write the book myself. And.

I call that my million dollar mistake. Because the first year I wrote the book, from literally the time I launched it, I launched my business. At the same time, one year later, I was doing over a million dollars a year in a terrible economy. And I was like, man, if I could have launched it a year earlier, you know, I'd have made another million.

Yeah, of course.

So I learned some big lessons in all that pain.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

So we were out in Florida a couple weeks ago, and we were hopping into an Uber and Don't do that. And one of the guys that was in the Uber was today's guest. So this is. This is our Uber driver that we're bringing on today.

This Uber driver is pretty cool. Yeah. For some reason, we really hung out for, like, multiple days with this dude. Steak dinner with him, had some drinks, shared more rides with him, I think.

Yeah, no, he wasn't actually our Uber driver. He was also an Uber passenger.

If you haven't caught on, you haven't caught on, man. That was cool. Yeah. We was out at Rich Sheffern's event in. I don't know if it was an event. It was livestream recording.

Yeah, it's an event.

Yeah, I guess so.

It was a gathering.

A gathering. More virtual, but, yeah, about 30, 40 of us or so in person. It was a good time. That's where we met Mr.

Rob.

Rob Kosberg.

That's right, Rob Kosberg. And I mean, to be very honest, we didn't know who he was prior to. Didn't know how fricking awesome of a business and solution he's built for folks. And that's what we're chatting about here.

Yeah.

So that's all about the book biz.

Yeah. So he teaches people how to. Well, he helps people self publish their book. He helps them get the book into pieces. You know, traditional media like TV and radio and on podcasts and all over the place. And then he actually helps with the marketing of the book, including advertising and helping you build, you know, helping you map out your funnels behind the book and all that kind of stuff. Pretty much everything around book promotions and how to make money off of the books, that's sort of Rob's expertise.

Yeah, it's called bestseller publishing is his solution to that. And Rob Here on this episode. Holy moly. All right, so I'm just going to say get the notes on this one, dude. I'll tell you in a minute how to get those notes, but just put that in your mind. Just note to self, get the notes.

This is a masterclass. I feel like I use that a lot. I should probably stop saying this is a masterclass, but this one, you're devaluing.

Everything if you just call every single one.

But we do a lot of master classes. No, this one is an exhaustive resource.

Not exhausting.

Not exhausting. An exhaustive resource. On the topic of how to get our book written, how to market the book, how to get into traditional media, how to build out free plus shipping book funnels, what technology to use, who to use for the printing and shipping.

What the offers are specifically in that.

Free plus shipping, how to price them.

How to price it, what the offer.

Should be like, what your copy should look like, what elements to focus on on your free + shipping book landing page. Like I think I told Rob as soon as we turned off the recording, this is the most like densely packed gold nugget after gold nugget after gold nugget episode we've done in a long, long time. I don't want to devalue the other episodes, but this one is just like tactical. Like a mofo.

Here's the cool thing. Rob too, he's just down to earth. Like, great, happy dude, just does great work. Fun guy to hang out with. Loves his golf and cigars and it's just in cars. That's sweet. Yeah, man. I mean, and then the fact that he has this and he was so, so generous with his strategies and all of the ins he's had over the years with not only his own business, but just Studying this for 13 years in the book business. I mean, he laid it all out. He didn't hold back every question we had. He had like an in depth answer. So, yeah, I mean, if you are even slightly interested in growing some authority and, you know, making a lot of sales on the back of a very, very simple funnel, this is the one for you. So besides that. Shoot. What was I going to say?

I don't know.

I think that's about it.

Oh, we cover a lot. We should, we should get to the episode and let him cover it.

No need to say anymore. Other than that, get the notes. That's what it was. I want to loop back to that to get the notes. You can get them at hustleandflowchart.com comp c o m p. Hustleflowchart.com comp. There it is. Or you can text the word comp. What was that Comp There we go to 38470. That's 38470. I use a weird voice because Matt does that.

Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes I just have a weird voice.

Oh, we were told that earlier today too. We have a similar weird voice. Yeah. So 38470 and text word comp. You'll get the notes for free. Be quick because they go away in two weeks of this episode going live.

That's a fortnite.

That is a Fortnite.

They go away in a fortnight.

No, we should start using that.

We should.

That's good. Sound fancy.

Yeah, people don't use the word fortnite anymore.

No, it's ra.

Yeah, so that's about that. So before we go over there, we want to give a shout out to our buddies over@ahrefs.ahrefs.com. that one. That place you can actually get a seven day, $7 free trial. That's a dollar a day.

Go into your best announcer voice and sell it to me.

Go. This is the best SEO tool ever. I'm a shaky announcer.

That sounds like a timid voice.

A timid announcer. That'd be weird to listen to, like a. A football game. And announcing. And exhale.

Hey, guys, I think you might. Might like this. It's. It's really, really cool.

I mean, I don't think Ahrefs is gonna like this. All right, scratches. Let's restart.

Okay.

All right.

Ahrefs.com seven day, seven dollar trial. It is the best SEO tool. We use it in our business. We used it long, long, long before they were ever a sponsor.

Like, very long before.

It was just serendipity that they became a sponsor. I don't even remember how they became a sponsor, but when they wanted to be a sponsor, we're like, hell, yeah.

We use that reached out because they love us.

Yeah, we. Yeah, we use it in our business. But basically what Ahrefs is, it's an SEO tool. It allows you to do keyword research. So you type in a keyword, it'll give you a whole bunch of other keywords that you can go after. It'll tell you how much traffic it's getting. You plug in your own website. It'll keep on track of what words you're ranking for and the movement of those words in real time. So you can log in and be like, hey, am I worth. Am I ranking for Hard boiled eggs today. Oh, look, I'm on page three for hard boiled eggs.

Maybe I'm ranked for bacon. And bacon is better than your eggs.

Yeah, but you're ranked on page 7. I looked on Ahrefs.

Shit. So I quit.

Anyway, go check out ahrefs. It is. It honestly is the best SEO tool. It's pretty much like it does everything when it comes to SEO, as far as, like, knowing what keywords to go after, knowing where you're ranking, finding new keywords, finding what keywords your competitors rank for, finding YouTube videos that you can go and try to rank for.

Matt, Matt, Matt. You're letting all the secret sauce out. All right, Leave some to be desired.

$7, seven days. That's a h r e f s dot com.

Yeah, man. So go get it. And they have a lot of cool tutorials there. So if you have questions on how to do all this fancy stuff that Matt was just spilling out at you, they'll actually explain it for free over there in their blog.

Yep.

So you'll love it. Ahrefs.com. ahrefs.com.

That's a H R E F S dot com.

Damn, that was good. Didn't even rehearse that. We're scarily similar. Okay, we're going to go away now and go chat with Mr. Robin. Rob, welcome to the show, man. How you doing?

Thanks. Great to be with you guys. Love it.

Yeah, we're back again. It's been a few weeks or something since we hung out in Florida.

Yeah, that was two Florida trips ago for us.

Yeah.

That'S right. Because you went to podfest.

That's right. Yeah. I saw you commented on some stuff with Dustin Matthews and I did.

I love Dustin. You guys are buddies with Dustin down in San Diego, so. Yeah. I love that you guys hooked up.

Shout out to Dustin Welfit.

He listens. So, hey, Dustin.

Yeah, man. You're a Florida guy. Are you moving? Because I think you're making that move somewhat soon, right?

I am. I am. We're going to open an east coast office. I'm going to keep my west coast office here in LA and opening an East coast office, moving to St. Augustine. And I'm from Florida. I lived in Florida, you know, 30 years of my life. So, you know, it's a little bit going home for me.

Yeah, that's cool. That's special, too. And now you can play all the golf you want out there and go crazy.

I still gotta work a little.

You're gonna save a lot of money on taxes and Stuff. So there's, like, golf built in on this.

That is true. I'm more excited about saving money on taxes than I am about the golf.

That's true. I don't believe you.

Yeah.

So we go way, way, way back to three weeks ago. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

We really hit it off. We had a couple of really cool and great dinners together and stuff. It was fun.

It all started because we just happened to all ride in the same Uber together.

Yeah, I know.

With. With Wes Watson, man. And so then shout out to Wes. Right?

That's right.

That was. That was really cool, man. I love meeting him.

Yeah. Now him, the whole gang out there were, you know, just for everyone listening, Rich Sheffrin's event. The Coalition to Save Internet Businesses.

And best name for.

It's a long name. Surprised? I got it off. Got it on the first go.

Oh, man.

But ye.

The best name and the worst name. Right? It's.

Right.

What is that about?

Not the easiest acronym in there. Csib. But it's all good. It worked out. Yeah.

But anyway, let's. Let's. I want to get our audience to know you a little bit. So can you give us your backstory a little bit? How did you get into business and entrepreneurship and, you know, how did you get to where you are today?

Wow, man, That's a big story.

Start wherever it's. Wherever it feels the most relevant to you to start.

Well, when you talk about entrepreneurship, it's kind of in the blood. I mean, my grandparents owned gas stations in Washington, D.C. and I'm a car nut. And part of that is because from the time I was 18 months old, I was sitting on the hood of a car while my dad, my uncle are working on cars, and they raced cars and all that stuff. So being in their gas station and growing up was a great entrepreneurial experience. And then my dad owned real estate companies, and that got me involved in real estate, which was a, like, meteoric rise for me, right up until the time it was a meteoric collapse.

Come back to earth. Right?

Yeah, Just came back home.

Yes, I crashed hard. In 2007, 2008, I had a business that was doing 100 million a year in transactions in real estate, mortgages and closings, title insurance. And, man, that just, you know, I mean, it dried up. Right when the financial collapse happened, lending had completely frozen. And so that business, because of it, froze. And then that eventually led me to writing my first book back in 2008 and using that book to start a financial services company. Probably not the smartest Thing to do during a financial collapse.

Right.

What? I mean, it's like, wow. Looking back, I'm like, really?

It's got to be a trendsetter somewhere. I know.

Yeah, yeah. Trend of making bad decisions. But you know, that book led to the company becoming a multimillion dollar company and people coming to me organically saying, how the heck are you doing it? Right? And I was like, yeah, my book, I mean, my book got me on radio, tv, speaking engagements, and that led to, you know, lead generation and other ways to grow that business. And then that led me, you know, to sell that business and start bestseller publishing. It's going on nine years ago now.

That's wild. I mean, yeah, that's a fast story.

I mean, I mean, I just took you through since I was 18 months old to today.

Wow, perfect.

You did really well. Yeah, better than Loose. It would take the whole episode.

We definitely had people on the show who would take the entire hour to tell us that same amount of information, so.

Well, I was afraid that. You know what, I don't want to tell too many stories here because I'm sure there are more questions.

Yeah, well, I mean, really, really what we want to, we want to chat about is more of the book publishing stuff too. So, you know, like, I think, I think that's a pretty good overview to let the audience know where, you know, where, where the book business kind of started. So, yeah, that's really what we're trying to do.

What was that first book that you published back then that got you going?

Yeah, it was called Life After Debt and I wrote it in 2008. I made a lot of mistakes with it. I didn't know what I was doing. I actually wrote it on advice from Dan Kennedy. I was part of GKIC before it was gkic and big fan and follower of Planet Dan forever and ever. And basically I asked, look, if you were in my position and wanting to start a business in an industry where you're completely unknown, what would you do? And he was like, first thing I do is I'd write a book. And something just rang true to me that, okay, that seems to make sense. Mike Dillard also advised me. I was at a conference of his back in 2007, maybe one of his first ones. And he told me about Magnetic Sponsoring and that book that he wrote.

And so I kind of followed that advice and those instincts and I wrote that book. And you know, it was pretty terrible from the standpoint of them not the book.

The market. Right. The environment was pretty terrible and the Book was just a game changer for me. I started using it to, you know, I'm a hustler. So I worked hard with it. Like, I didn't. A lot of people write a book and then they just kind of cross their fingers and think it's gonna just do magic by itself. But I knew that wasn't the case and so I started hustling with it and using that book to get first like PR and media locally, which that was kind of my big break, believe it or not, which was odd.

But.

What was the break for you there?

Yeah, I used it. I got like, sent the book out to a bunch of local radio, TV stations, you know, media outlets. And I got a bite from a program manager and you know, which of course you would because the economy was terrible and stocks were down 50%. And so here's a guy who wrote a book, you know, that, that's an expert, right, because you're an author. Yeah, yeah. And, and certainly, you know, I took him up on the offer and it was for like a five minute, you know, Q and A on local radio station, but a local radio station that had a pretty good, you know, bite of the market. And that day I appeared morningish, I think it was maybe 10, 11am Great interview at the end of that interview. This is before free plus shipping or any of those things, right? Really kind of not pre Internet, but pre the Internet we know of.

So I said, look, and as a gift, I want to offer any of your listeners a free copy of my book. And, and I'll even ship it to you for free, you know, like no cost. All I want you to do is either call the radio station or call my office. And I gave my office telephone number and you know, we got, I don't know, 10, 15 calls that day and a bunch of books. And I didn't know what I'd get, right? Would I get a thousand and it would break me? I mean, who knew?

That's true.

Of course, that'd be a good problem to have. But that night they replayed that, you know, five minute spot. And I was in my office, it was about 6 o' clock at night, and the phone rings and it's a lady and, and she says, is this Rob Kosberg? And I'm like, you know, oh man, do I owe you money?

You know, like someone found me and, and I said, yeah. And she goes, this Rob Kosberg, you know, the author who was on the radio. And I was like, well, yes, sounding better. Yeah, sounding better. And we had about a 20 minute conversation, no selling involved at all, just serving. And she became client. And it was worth about $6,000 to my company. That was the same day that I was on my very first media appearance. And I just thought, you know what, I'm on to something here. And within six to eight months of that, you know, we were buying airtime. I had my own one hour live radio show that ended up being three to four hours live a week call in show. And you know, we were spending at the height about 20,000amonth, which was a lot of money just on radio. But 20,000amonth plus all the other stuff that I was doing. And you know, the business was multi seven figures, all from just offering a free book on the radio. Crazy.

So would you recommend. And it's kind of selfish actually because my wife is just literally, she found a gap in the whole coronavirus thing. Right now she's going to appear on a local TV show tomorrow news station and she has a book. And you're actually giving me a lot of ideas. But like, would you recommend something like this now?

Oh, 100%, absolutely. If it's any kind of mass market offer. My offer from 20078 would work today because it's a financial offer and that's a mass market offer. Now I still go on TV and radio and that kind of thing. I was on KTLA.

Sometime back and, and I offered my book in the free plus shipping funnel right on KTLA and you know, Good Morning LA segment, I had like 50 downloads, you know, within, within two minutes just from, from that one. And of course, you know that, that gets them into the funnel and all that other stuff. But yep, absolutely, I would do that if I were your wife. 100%.

I'll tell her that tonight when I go home.

Now with that first book, did, did you write that book yourself like the entire book or did you work with ghost writer or anything like that?

Yes, to both of those things. You know, I, like I said, I made a lot of mistakes. I didn't know what I was doing. I only knew that based on what my English teachers had told me, I should not write a book myself.

That's dangerous.

Yeah, right. And so I hired a ghostwriter. And you know, you can spend, you can spend $150,000 for a ghostwriter, but you know, typical ghostwriting is, you know, it's mid five figures, it's 30, $50,000. And so I hired a ghostwriter and you know, I went through kind of the, what I would call the traditional ghostwriting process, which is more of an interview style process. I gave her what my table of contents would be. She asked me questions on those. Table of contents came back to me. This was about three months of interviews. And then about three months of writing came back to me with like 180 page book. And after reading like two chapters, I was like, this is terrible. It was terrible. Not because it was poorly written, it was actually well written. It was terrible because it wasn't in my voice.

And you knew that immediately. You're like, immediately, right.

I wanted something that was conversational, something that had my personality in it. And you can't get that from a standard interview process. Now. I learned later when I was starting Bestseller Publishing, that that's actually a really common problem. But the first person to experience it in my life was me.

Good place to start.

Yeah, yeah. So I basically trashed that whole thing. And I took too long roughly the next year to write the book myself. And.

I call that my million dollar mistake. Because the first year I wrote the book, from literally the time I launched it, I launched my business at the same time, one year later, I was doing over a million dollars a year in a terrible economy. And I was like, man, if I could have launched it a year earlier, you know, I'd have made another million.

Yeah, of course.

So I learned some big lessons in all that pain.

That's. I mean, that's a really cool story though. And what a heck of a way to kick it off too. And I'm sure what after that, it just did that open up the love and this whole model of offering it to other people, it sounds like with Bestseller came around.

Maybe just give us a little overview of Bestseller publishing and what that looks like.

Yeah, love to. Thanks for asking. It's basically what I would have loved to write a check for.

13 years ago when I was starting this journey. We help people from concept to completed books. So all the ghost writing, you know, we have a dozen writers on staff that most of them are award winning screenwriters here in Los Angeles. If you know anything about the business in Hollywood, you know, they don't work all the time and they can be really talented but be in between projects. So we have great, great talent. And then of course, all the editing and formatting and design and publishing and distribution, then we do the full book launch, you know, paid ads and social media and press releases and all that stuff, you know, really hitting Bestseller, like really making it happen. Not for an hour and not in some narrow little category, but Amazon or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, that's what people think of because there are so many scammers out there, but, but like legitimately. And then we also have three full time publicists in my office here in Pasadena. And, and so we book our clients on real TV and media. We've had people on everything from the Howard Stern show to Reader's Digest and, you know, you name it. And I've been on a dozen different TV shows myself and tons of great podcasts also. So it's kind of soup the nuts all around the book. And then of course, the next step for most of my clients is how do I make money with the book. And so we either coach them and, and teach them how to do that, or we can even do some of it for them, like funnel creation and guidance and coaching on that stuff. So it's fun. It's pretty comprehensive.

Oh, man, I love the fact that you're probably taking some of the best writers in the world that are underutilized and they're just sitting around waiting for work, and here you are, splat, the center of la. You're like, hey, we can do some work. And then you have this perfect solution too.

You want to keep waiting table, or would you prefer to keep working in your craft? That's literally what it is for these people, right? They make pretty good money waiting tables, but who wants to do that when they could be working in their craft making good money? And so I like to think that we, you know, we do good.

I remember Andre Chaperone talking about doing that exact same thing for writing emails too. He hires people to write out of work. What screenwriters to write email sequences for him.

They're the best storytellers, right?

I mean, that's exactly it.

They've got to craft a great story for tv, for movies, and we don't need them to craft that story from scratch because they have the client, they're giving them the story. They just need to spice it up, juice it up, just say it in the right way. So, yeah, it's a great. It works great.

Nice. And how did you crack the code on the whole making it your own voice or the author's voice and all that? So what does that look like in the process?

That's a great question. You know, I'm almost never asked that question. So that, that's a, that's a great question.

You know, I mean, when I, because I tell that story, right, And I tell the story about it, and then people move right on to Whatever else are like, okay, well, Robert answered it. No, I really didn't. I just said it's a problem. But the way we did it is we kind of crafted our own. I never saw anybody do this before, but I found that it worked for me. It worked for the first five to ten writer authors that we worked with. And so we just kind of honed it. And the simplest way, there's lots of steps in the process, but the simplest way to describe it is we take every chapter of a client's book and look at it like a great TED talk. And if you think of a great TED Talk, the best ones, and I mean, there are now there's a whole industry built around teaching people to do TED talks.

That's right. We know a few of them.

Yeah, yeah. And their neat because, you know, bad TED talk sucks. But.

And so a good TED talk generally has like a great story to begin that captivates the audience. Oftentimes there's an open loop, meaning they don't culminate the story. Right. They, they kind of leave you hanging right on the precipice. Then they talk about what they've learned from the stories, the points, and then they come back around and they conclude the story, or they, they conclude it in some way to, you know, kind of prove their point and make for a strong conclusion. And they're about 17, 18 minutes long, which is actually like a great length of a chapter. So I kind of saw this and I thought, you know, since we want our clients to speak their book, not to write it, we thought, well, if they could speak it in this format and we could help them to craft the content in this format, then we have both content and context.

Right.

And it works beautifully.

Oh, man, that's brilliant. I mean, that's because I've noticed just in the way that I write that of course, the voice, if it comes from your voice, it's going to be the best possible thing. And yeah, just writing can flow, or ideas can flow in interesting ways. And it seems like you're basically capturing that in a creative way like this. And then you have all the mechanisms behind that to actually have it develop into a book that's cohesive and strung together nicely.

Yeah, I mean, you have a big podcast. What do people love about your podcast? It's you guys, it's your story, it's your personality, it's your vibe. And so it's the same is true with a book. I mean, you're writing a textbook, you do want to teach people, but you're not writing a manual. You want your personality to come out. That's not easy, but it is possible with the right frameworks.

Yeah, it's good. And it's needed too, because there's a lot of dull and dry books especially we're talking about free plus shipping offers. And we're seeing those for good reason because they work.

Which I don't know if now is a good time to get into that.

Well, before we get into that, I actually want to touch on the PR aspect for a second and maybe see if you had any sort of advice or tips for want somebody's got a book out, what's some easy ways that. Or maybe not easy, but what are some ways that people can go about approaching media to help feature it?

Yeah, great question. It depends what kind of media. But we always tell our clients, look, if you've never been on radio, tv, even if your offer isn't like this mass market appeal offer, then you should get some radio and TV just for your own credibility and authority.

If you're a financial advisor, then it might be easy to reach an audience on television. But if you're a roofer in Des Moines, and we do books for roofers and plumbers, you name it, believe it or not. But if you're a roofer in Des Moines, getting on TV in Los Angeles isn't exactly going to get you your target market. However, the people in Des Moines are going to be like, this dude wrote a book, he's a roofer, he wrote a book, he's appearing on television. Why would I go anywhere else? I mean, this guy is clearly at the top of his craft. So. So we. That doesn't answer your question.

But it's a good piece, It's a good starting piece because credibility, right?

Yeah. You want the media not just for the leads, you want the media for, you know, a way to warm up leads in the future. And so when it comes to, like mass media, what we suggest is you need a great hook, right? And sometimes your book isn't by itself, like the title of your book may be, to a narrow audience. So you might have to broaden that a little bit and make it more appealing to more people. So you take your book, you broaden the hook of it, and you want that created in some type of like, segment or what we would call one sheet. And we always suggest, look, you find the producer of a particular station, you send them a copy of your book to warm them up. No one does that. They email them, which is the easiest thing to do. Right. That's also the easiest thing to delete. So they won't delete your book if it's been sent in the mail. It will get their attention. So a little, little cover letter explaining who you are and that you're going to be in touch, and that will get their attention to the point where they'll take your telephone call. Once you have them on the phone, it's easy to get, you know, to get a placement because they need credible people to get on mass media.

And they're always looking for content too. Right. They're constantly searching, constantly.

They have a voracious appetite for content, but they only want it from people that they don't want to let some crackpot on. Right. That happened to get through. Generally speaking, you know, if you get their book and you skim through it, you'll know if they're a crackpot pretty fast.

Well, we allow those on our podcast. I mean, we're talking to one. No, just not you.

No. Yeah, go ahead.

Well, I was gonna say, from the perspective of media.

What have you found to be the most effective between radio, local media, mass market, going on podcasts? What seems to move the needle the most among the various media platforms?

Yeah, great question. Completely dependent upon the genre of the client. Right. What the client is like. For me, I don't think I've ever had one telephone call into the office from an appearance on TV or radio. And I've been on some pretty big TV markets like San Diego, San Francisco, Los Angeles. These are big markets. However, I go on a podcast, like your podcast. I've been on Entrepreneur on Fire a couple of times, and I get clients from that because it's a very narrow marketplace. So the book offer is. Write a book is not a great mass market offer. However, if you're a vet, a veterinarian, if you're a financial advisor, if there's some type of mass market for what your discussions are, stem cell therapy, doctors, chiropractors, then certainly radio and television will work for you as well as the narrower media works great as well. We tell our clients always, always get on podcasts. Just at least get some radio and TV to kind of even more establish your authority with your prospects down the road.

Yeah, that's really good. And then with that, any kind of appearance, you can now take that and repurpose it or rework it into other content to really plaster that everywhere. Really, all it takes is one pretty solid appearance from a pretty credible source and then it's kind of. You could light it on fire and make yourself look a lot bigger than you might already be.

Yeah, yeah. And that's completely true. I mean, I said that my TV appearances didn't make the phone ring once. But that's not entirely true because I've repurposed those television appearances and I use them as ads on my Facebook channel and Instagram and whatever. And that always attracts clients into our funnel.

So instant credibility.

Yeah. It may not be, you know, somebody watching at 8:30 in the morning, you know, in. Geez. I've appeared, you know, in West Texas, you know, in the early days I just wanted to get on tv. I was on two stations in Wichita.

No one's calling from Wichita. But those appearances on social media work.

Yeah, yeah.

Or even just putting them on landing pages and, you know, use them and like just. Or just like editing them into your sales pitches and stuff to build the credibility. I mean, you see that all the time. I get. Seems like it's pretty effective.

But do you have any ideas? Because with TV and whatnot, I mean, how does it work? Because you have to ask them for what, a copy of the recording or you can, I believe, from most of these places. So you can then use it in the future for yourself, right?

Yeah, you can. And there are services that will pull it for you, but for the most part, you can pull it right off of their. They're gonna post it on their social media and they're gonna post it on their website as well to drive traffic to it. Plus they're going to have like a, like an opening commercial and a closing commercial. So. And you can pull that. You know, we pull that stuff for our clients all the time. It's easy to do.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, Gotcha.

Love it.

Now for back to, you know, an author, just thinking about getting a book going. You know, a lot of folks feel like, you know, you constantly hear it's like, I'm going to write a book one day. I'm going to, you know, I got an idea for a book. But typically there's not like a vision of where this book's going to take them. So what are some tips on the intention or the goal of a book and how you've seen it best applied to maybe a bigger business or a cause after the fact.

Yeah, great question. It's really like one of the first things we talk about with somebody even before we get started with them, is what is your goal with the book? What are we trying to accomplish for you, for your business? Because if they don't know that, then it's really hard to satisfy them. It's hard to make them happy unless you just back up a dump truck of cash and put it in their house, I imagine. Happy, right.

So we always want to find that out first. Those that are just thinking, well, I'm going to write the book and make hundreds of thousands or millions from royalties, they need to be told of kind of harsher, more honest truth that, look, it just doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way unless you're a Stephen King or J.K. rowling or. And it didn't work that way for them in the beginning. Right. I mean, they had to earn their, you know, their way, so to speak. So for us, it's a client that has some kind of back end that the book is going to lead to. You know, a financial advisor, when he gets clients. An average client to a financial advisor might be worth 10, 20, $50,000. To a real estate professional or real estate investor, it might be the same to a coach or consultant, it might be two or three or $4,000. That's a great number too.

Sure.

And so you can start just doing math. Okay, so here's eight ways you can use your book to get one new great lead or one new great prospect every single month that you can sell your 3, 5, $10,000 thing to. And when you start adding like paid traffic and like real sophisticated methods to it, then it is like backing up a dump truck of cash. I mean, literally, it's like having an ATM when you add the more sophisticated methodology to it.

Yeah, no, that's great. So really just know that there should be a back end something to the book and I guess that kind of leads now to.

So basically the book's not going to make me rich by itself.

Dang it, Rob. All right, we're done here, man.

I just lost the whole podcast.

Everybody just signed off.

But that's not what Tim Ferriss says.

No, that's right.

So, yeah, I mean, maybe this does lead to the best ways that you've seen it now applied and Free plus shipping, something that we chatted about in Florida, a lot of folks use it. You said you've even recorded a lot of video, record a lot of these funnels just to study them. But I do. Let's talk about your experience around those and how people can apply that.

Yeah, I love, obviously I love the free plus shipping model.

When I didn't know what I was doing, the free plus free shipping model that I ran, you know, brought me millions of dollars in revenue and allowed me to scale a business in a really pretty bad economy. And you know, now I don't have the mass market, so to speak, to deal with, but we have tools now to target. So, you know, I as said before when we were talking, I mean, every time I see a free plus shipping offer of some kind that's been running for a little while, I'm buying it and I'm going through their funnel. I want to see what kind of upsells they have, what kind of down sells they have. And ultimately they're always leading to some type of high ticket offer. Right. Maybe it's continuity or maybe it's something that they're selling. And so, you know, I mean, Russell Brunson is a friend of mine. He's paid us to do PR and media for him. I was part of his inner circle group for a number of years. We helped him launch his various books. And you know, I mean, he's, he's built a company that arguably may be approaching a billion dollar valuation. Click funnels basically on the back of these free plus shipping funnels. Now that may be an example that somebody hears and goes, you know, well that's, you know, that's just him. And Russell is certainly one of the Russell factories.

Yeah.

But there are plenty of us. I mean my, you know, I shared with you guys my book just. I probably run eight to 10 different funnels at any given time. My book is one of those funnels and that is led to about 3 million in profit over the last 3 million in sales, not profit in revenue over the last 12 months. And you know, I mean, it's hard to argue with that. We've probably in that period of time sold something like 15,000 copies, which means there's also 15,000 physical copies of my book sitting on people's desks. That has ultimately led to, you know, great profit. So there's other ways to do it with organic traffic and not a free plus shipping funnel. And we show our clients how to do it with speaking engagements, how to do it with media and pr, how to do it with organic traffic. But if you can add that gasoline to the fire, then man, it's, it's powerful.

Yeah.

Now have you noticed with the free plus shipping, any sort of specific funnel elements that really work, like after somebody grabs the free book, this is kind of the next best offer to put right after a book. So we've, we've tried free plus shipping offers with our books. We have a couple books that we put out. We've Never actually had really great success with them. We don't have them running right now. But I think, you know, there's. There's a few elements that we probably missed. So I'm kind of curious. What, what do you think is the sort of best flow after the book?

Yeah, I love it. Great, great question. I don't think I've ever been asked that. Also.

I always tell people the first upsell should be an audio version of the book.

So basically, book is number one and free book and compare it to on Amazon. Right now, on Amazon, my book is for sale for 24.95. Or you can get it from me. Right. For nothing. Just pay $7.95. So I'm competing against Amazon. From there, there should be one bump, and the bump could be maybe 17 to 37 dollars. And a bump is nothing more than a place that on the initial checkout page gives them, once they put in the credit card information, gives them an option to increase the value to you, the seller, by getting something. Generally my suggestion is if you can find a way to put dollars back in their pocket. In other words, show them a strategy that will help them to make money with the thing that the book that you're selling them, that's a great bump. And then the first upsell being the audio version of the book, that by itself is a great funnel. You can leave it just right there and go into the next step, which is to sell your high ticket thing, which generally you want to do on a telephone call or maybe an automated webby or something like that.

Yeah, it could be a scheduling thing or an application right after that upsell. I mean, that's so simple for anyone to do. And I can imagine, even if you don't have that high ticket offer, it's a great way to liquidate all your costs for marketing to get that lead or a buyer. Really, it's more than a lead. So you're literally getting kind of free leads, ideally or buyers that you can then follow up with. And, you know, luckily at that point, you've already built your trust and you got some good stuff that you can kind of give them.

Yeah. You know, the only caveat I would say is in the beginning, you might even be making money on the front end with your funnel. And I was. That's what we were doing the beginning. I was like, omg, this is like the greatest thing ever. Because, you know, we spend a lot of money. I mean, a lot of money is relative to people, but we spend 50 to 70,000amonth on paid traffic on Facebook and YouTube and Google and sometimes LinkedIn other things. And I was making that and another 10, 15, 20,000 bucks and getting all these leads and apps. I was like, this is amazing. Now unfortunately, that ended.

So we go in the hole on the front end, we liquidate a portion of the cost. But the beautiful thing about it, I'd say there's two things. If you do have a high ticket thing on the back end, a buyer, somebody who pulls out their credit card is for us. We've done the math. 16 times more valuable than an email opt in. So I need 16 email opt ins just to equal one person. That gives me $7.95.

Wow.

And so the math there just works in the favor. Even if you're going in the red on the front end, the math works in the favor of the person that that's the buyer as opposed to the email opt in.

Well, that should just make it a no brainer. I don't have the math on top of my head, but just the fact that like if you don't have a book, and especially with a book and a funnel like this, if you're just capturing leads, yeah, you're, you're, it's going to be way more expensive, a lot more work to get to the sale. The ultimate goal, you're trying to get them to this basically bypasses and shortcuts that whole thing and make selling on the back end way easier.

It is. And there's so many things you can do. I mean, you know, we have a little ashamed of this, but you know, we generally just wait for people to fill our application out and then get on the phone with them. And I told my guys, I'm like, guys, you know, we're getting 1000 to 1500 buyers a month. How about if you have some free time calling them?

Go figure.

I mean, how about. And of course they do sometimes and they don't most of the time because their schedules are pretty filled right. With the apps getting them. But just recently we basically set aside a new person that is making those outbound calls and we're closing deals with people that just got too busy to actually fill out an application and follow up. But they've read the book or the book is sitting on their desk and they were interested. So I mean, there's so much you can do when you have those kinds of leads coming in.

Oh yeah.

Now what kind of price point would you sell an audiobook upsell at?

Good question. So it depends what you're pairing it With. So what I always suggest is the audiobook by itself. If you have nothing to compare it to, meaning there's no bonus with the audiobook, then they're thinking of it like audible. Right? You can get an audible for 10, 12, 95, something like that. So you want to, as much as you can put yourself in a completely different category. So what we do is we offer this, this six step training class that we put together. It's actually, I used to do these two day events. I haven't done one in a couple years, but I've done dozens of these two day events and we professionally record it all. It's six different classes and you know, wrote all this copy on it. And so we sell that for $47 and we get about a 20% take rate, 18, 19% take rate in thousands of sales. So one out of five basically say, here's another 47 bucks.

Sure, yeah. And then I know the bumps usually convert really well, at least the ones that we've used before. And those are typically what, like a little lower priced? I'm sure it's what about like under $50 typically is what I've seen.

37. Our bumps are 37. We have a couple of different bumps when all is said and done for us.

An average client to us, average cart value. Right. Someone that comes in thinking they're just going to give us $7.95 on average gives us just under $40. So I can spend $40 to acquire that person and basically break even. And again we go in the hole a little bit, but not too terribly much.

Not terrible. No, that's. I mean, this is so cool. And I'm sure if I ask this question of do you need to have a publisher for your book? Your answer is probably a big fat no. I would assume like a traditional publisher.

Traditional, yeah, yeah, traditional publisher. First of all, traditional publisher generally is going to write you a check. And oftentimes that check is a small check. Unless you have a giant audience. You have a giant audience, then they'll write you a big check. But that's because you're going to go to work for them. Right. You become an employee and they got you on the road for a year, you know, hawking your book. You're gonna get to keep 50 cents to a dollar of it. They keep the rest of it. And so most of most of my clients don't have, you know, a giant platform and audience. Even though these are, you know, in some cases, you know, eight, nine figure businesses that they run.

Yeah.

But they do it without a giant Facebook profile. Who knew that you could make that much money without Facebook?

But no, you don't need that. And unfortunately, that check that they write you comes with a lot of baggage. Like you don't own the rights to the book. And not owning the rights to the book means that you have to buy the book from them. And that oftentimes makes it too expensive to run a free plus shipping funnel. You want to own the rights and you want to get a fulfillment company to do all the, the printing for you. And then it makes, it makes it simple.

And I think in most of those scenarios too, that sort of like upfront, you know, signing bonus or whatever they call it, that money, you essentially still owe them that money back in book sales. And you'll never see a single royalty on your book sales again until you surpass that amount of money that they originally paid you.

Exactly, exactly. And good luck trying to use that book in any way in the future. Or even, you know, the theme of it. Right. The title of it, the content of it, the images of it.

Right.

You have sold it and you sold it for whatever that dollar amount is. And unfortunately, people do that all the time for like five grand, ten grand, which is nuts.

Wow.

They just don't understand the implications of it. Yeah.

Or what they're doing.

Confidence in marketing or simple model just like you laid out here. I mean, that could be completely, completely life changing like it was for you.

Yeah, well, there's a reason that like publishing houses have their names at the top of big buildings.

That's right. It's like casinos. Right.

A lot of money here. And it's not the author.

Now I'm curious, how involved are you in the Landing Page building and the ads and all that kind of stuff? Is that like your team's handling that or do you kind of have your hands in a lot of that stuff too?

I like that stuff. Like I have my hand in it. I enjoy it. It's kind of, you know, if I didn't enjoy it, I probably could outsource it. But my first hire when I moved to California nine years ago was a guy that is still with me every day in my office. Steve. He's fantastic. My director of technology and he and I work together every single day. New funnels, new offers. How are the ads doing? What's going on? I just love it. I love it. You don't have to.

Well, that's like me. That's me in our business. I still do the media buying and I still Build a lot of our landing pages. So I'm with you. Really, really enjoy it. But the reason I was asking that was I was curious if there was like certain types of landing pages that you've seen to make the book sell well. Because I've sort of noticed a kind of trend in the design of these free plus shipping. It seems like, you know, there's a sales video on the top, there's this sort of checkout on the. Right. And then there's kind of like long form sales copy to get somebody to pay you, you know, 6 or 7 95. Which I always thought was very interesting. Like why do you need so much copy to sell something that's seemingly an impulse buy almost?

Yeah, yeah, you're 100% right. I mean we've tested a lot of different things. There's kind of two genres, right? One genre is what you just described. And the video is really important by the way.

Right.

Like you need a strong video. I've seen some people were really weak 1 to 2 minute videos and their percentage is too low to make it profitable. So you need a great video and yeah, you do need strong copy and you need, you know, we have tons of videos and people hold their books up and you know, all this social proof. The other, other genre is, you know, like, you know, like what you've seen Kern do, which, which you see a number of people do it and it tends to do really well too. And that's, you know, literally no video. But it is a long form sales letter basically that that leads to the purchase as well. We've tried both. And the video, whether I just like video or I feel like I'm more comfortable on video, that tends to convert better for us. And that's what Brunson uses. And you see a lot of people really successfully using that more than just the long copy.

Yeah, yeah.

I've always just found it so interesting because it's, you know, for me, like I'll land on a free plus shipping page and usually I'm just like, yeah, the headline got me. Bye.

You know, seven bucks 100%.

Yeah, yeah, well that's, that's who we are, right? We're, you know, we're the guys that are in that world. So we're just buying and I'm buying and recording. So.

Yeah, yeah, it's almost like buying to learn, you know, the process more than the actual content in some cases.

Yeah, totally. Like all those books behind you, right?

Yeah, they're all free plus shipping. None of them ever been read that doesn't read, it looks like.

So then, then going to the ads is, you know, obviously on Facebook. You got video ads and image ads and lead ads and all the various types of ads. Is there, is there anything that you've noticed works better than other things for driving traffic into these book funnels?

You know, I'd love to tell you the ads are complicated. They're not. You know, the best ads for us are like book flip ads, right? So like where, you know, we have a book that, you know, just shows a cover. It shows like one of my, one of my female employees just opening the book and kind of flipping through it. That just kills.

Does it require like diagrams and pictures or is it literally just flipping through textbooks?

You know, it's literally flipping through. We have a couple that are. With diagrams and pictures and those do really well too. But like, the book flip ad works really good. You've probably seen a ton of people that actually light their books on fire.

I don't think I've seen that.

I don't think I've seen one of those either, actually.

Peng Joon is running one right now for Russell Brunson's new Traffic secrets book. And Russell did it really successfully. Any great testimonial videos with people holding your book up, especially if they're an influencer? That works really, really well. But it's simple for us. It's video, sometimes it's image, but again, it's image of the book itself and, and it's not complicated. And the copy is really simple. And you know, just here, it's free. Just pay for a small shipping charge. It's not rocket science.

Love it. I like that answer. Yeah, we don't need rocket science answers.

Yeah, I mean, when I hear answers like that, it just makes me think, yeah, I probably overcomplicated it last time, and that's probably the problem, likely.

So.

Yeah, I mean, we do try, you know, a lot of different creatives, but ultimately the ones that work great for us are the ones with people holding the book up, flipping through the book, that kind of thing. And it's, you know, and the copy is simple too.

Yeah, I mean, I just, I love it. I mean, the whole model just seems like a closed loop system in a way. You know, it's. It's start, finish here, promotion. A lot of folks have some kind of offer that they're trying to bring qualified folks in the door with. And it's kind of like this podcast, you know, if you can get someone to really understand how you speak and, and who you are. The credibility is there packaged up in a book. There's a video and then there's an opportunity to actually get some personal time or some high touch element for a high price. I mean, you're probably likely to convert really well without anything complicated.

Probably just like this podcast, there are people just last week, client.

Overseas, long way away, lives in the Middle east, and he had already become a client and wired us a very, very large sum of money, full pay, and he wanted to have a one on one with me, which I'll do with some of my clients. I don't do it with every single one, but if they request it, of course. And so we did a quick video and first thing he did is he held up my book and he's like, Rob, I read it cover to cover and when I filled out the application, I knew I was just going to get started with you. I knew your team was who I wanted to work with. And I'm like, you know, first of all, you know, how hard was it for the sales guy to close that deal? Right?

That's easy money.

It is. But you know, I mean, there's this familiarity, right. They begin to get to know you. That's happening without you even knowing it's happening. And people come, you know, not everybody, of course, but some people come, you know, with just wire transfer, check in hand, credit card in hand, because they just know, I've been ready to do this. You're the people I want to do it with.

Yeah. And the book just built up that credibility and sort of, it did it.

All, it did all the heavy lifting.

Further solidified this is the person I want to work with.

And that's what we kind of experienced a smidgen of that, not with leading with the book, but with the podcast. And we had a mastermind at Podfest last week and we had about almost 20 people there that paid quite a bit. It was four figures for most folks. And, and it was great because it was all on the back of this podcast. It was a very trust thing. I mean, it wasn't more than a couple emails for most people. And then the ones I couldn't attend, they're like, oh my God, I'm just kicking myself, I couldn't travel or something. I'm like, it's just cool when you have a group of people that are really into what you have and they just trust you. It just makes the selling process much easier. And honestly, I think there's better action taking from their point of view as well. When it's someone that they trust as well.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, they. They listen to your podcast, they like you, that, that may be the first step. They get to know you, they like you, and then eventually, as they see your success and say, well, they're offering something that I want. They're good at it. I know them and like them. Already, it's done.

What else do you need?

There's nothing else needed. Right. It's just, okay, how do I pay? Where's the button?

Pretty much, yeah. For the longest time, we weren't hanging that button around. We're like, what is wrong with us?

That's true.

So I think the last kind of little rabbit hole I want to go down is maybe a little bit on the tech side of things. I'm assuming you're using click funnels. I think the sales page I saw was clickfunnels. So what does it look like when somebody goes through that offer? Is there somebody sitting there waiting for the order to come in and they're putting a book in an envelope and shipping it off? You know, how is the fulfillment handled after somebody orders a book?

God, no. Not that way. Because, man, no one would get their books if it was happening in my office.

Well, Bob tries to do it for you.

Yeah, Bob, my dog tries to do it.

No, we use a guy in your area, Mike Fredericks, for all of our fulfillment, and we use ship zoom in the past and. And they were good. There's several other fulfillment houses. We love Mike because first of all, Mike's an awesome guy, but they do all the printing for us. It's connected to click funnels, so everything's integrated. As soon as the sale is made, they know it. And yes, there's somebody on their team that is taking a book out of inventory, putting it in an envelope and shipping it out usually the next day. And so all of that is outsourced. It cost us about 750 to $8 to print.

Fulfill and ship one book. And so literally what we're saying, $7.95 is what it cost us to, you know, ship and fulfill that book. And all of it is completely hands off for us.

And that's in the U.S. right. So will you ship outside of the U.S. or is it only we do?

We stopped. We used to advertise heavily outside the US the free plus shipping offer and charge 1495 for that. We don't do that as much. We do ship here to Canada. The biggest problem was that it was taking so long that we Got so many complaints, and so many people were like, where's my book? And my book didn't come, or whatever. And so we felt like, okay, U.S. is 300 million people. I think we can find a few clients there. We focus on U.S. and Canada.

Yeah, yeah.

I think we're using Lulu.com to have our books fulfilled. I mean, I don't really have an opinion on them. They're. They do the job, but, you know, we're. We're always kind of shopping around and seeing if there's better alternatives out there, I guess.

The point being.

You'll love Mike. Yeah, yeah, love Mike. Great guy.

Cool. And he's in San Diego, too.

Yeah, he is. Maybe it's Irvine. He's in. He's in SoCal. So. So in between us, Newport, Irvine, Laguna, somewhere down there. I've never been to his place, but great guy. And we totally connected first before we started doing business together. And I love the work they do for us.

Yeah. And I always kind of prefer working with sort of people versus, you know, faceless companies in any way.

Always. Always.

Me, too.

Well, we just got to get that going. Got to get a. Get a book out there. That's the next plan.

Or relaunch one of our existing books and make it work this time.

That'll work, too. That's right. If you got a book hanging around, then relaunch it and do it right things with that.

You got the model now. Very cool. Yeah, man. I mean, so what's the future look like for your company? Or do you have any other books of your own coming out?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I got two I'm working on right now. You know, the one that we use is Publish, Promote Profit. That's kind of our primary book, and that gives the whole. Kind of our whole trademark system.

Hold that in the screen really quick so we can get a little screenshot. There it is.

The new writing, marketing, and making money with a book. That's our whole kind of process. Tons of case studies and examples in it. I'm writing a book on how to write a legacy book, because I think that that's a really big market that is underserved, man. Should I say that to all your people, man? Someone's gonna knock me off now.

Lead with the good stuff, man. It's all good.

And so I'm writing. I'm writing that book. And I'm also writing.

Not quite a funnel book book, but. But something along the lines of using a book to make money. Using a book to grow your business. With just the focus on after the book, what, what happens. So those are two that I'm working on right now. Lexi books pretty close. And we'll probably launch that next two months.

I think that would be a hit. I mean, I would assume the legacy market. I mean, shoot. Who doesn't want to leave a mark or even write it for their kids alone, you know, and just say, that's my dad's book, my mom's book right there.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, I've done some books for some pretty big time wealth advisors and financial advisory people and they always have the legacy element in their books. And so I got to talking with one of them and he said, you would be shocked, the number of wealthy people. And obviously there's, there's more baby boomers that are retiring, you know, 10,000 or so a day, and they're, they're passing on, I think, some ungodly amount of money to the next generation. Like $7 trillion. But, but unfortunately, I mean, he was telling me, he's like, look after, after, you know, Pawpaw is dead. You know, the next generation doesn't even like. Like that person is forgotten.

Yeah. Quickly too.

And it's not that they're not love. It's just that you move on with your life. And so I just thought, man, I mean, wouldn't these people want, like I want. I would like that from my ancestors, you know what I mean? I would like something where I could read about them from a hundred years ago or even just 50 years ago. I don't have anything like that. I just thought they're passing on the wealth, their financial wealth, but they're not passing on their real wealth, which is their life lessons, their story. So I don't know. I mean, look, maybe it fails, but I just, I just thought it's what I would want, so maybe someone else does too.

I think it's gonna be good. I haven't heard of anyone doing that. And if you.

Well, it makes me think of the Gary Halbert letters. Right. All those were essentially written to his son as like his legacy. That's right.

So, yeah, yeah.

I'm writing a book for my kids too called Things yous Should Know. I think I said all these things, but I'm not sure that they know any of them. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna write these things.

You have no excuse now. That's right.

That's right. I know I taught you this stuff, but just in case, here it is in writing.

I'm even Gonna do an audiobook so you can't get rid of me.

That's right.

That's right. That's good, man. Well, Rob, this is cool. And so I think that touches everything that I had on.

Oh, yeah. I think we covered it a ton of ground.

Right? We got a. And you're bummed. I know you didn't golf today. Got rained out.

I know. I was. Well, I played eight holes, but I was soaking wet like a wet rat. And I was playing well, too. I'm like, man, I wanted to stick it around. I know. But you're right. I'm a little bummed about that, but happy with you guys.

Yeah, I know. This is cool, man. So what's. Always asked, but what's a book that you actually recommend to others that you find yourself maybe going too often or you just give out more than often or more often?

You know, it's always something new for me personally, and we might have talked about this before, or not. I don't remember. But my favorite author maybe ever is CS Lewis.

CS Lewis is just one of the most brilliant thinkers of the 20th century, I think. And most people think of him, you know, for his fiction, but his nonfiction is just amazing. It obviously, you know, spiritual focus, but. But very, very cool stuff. So I always talk about C.S. lewis because I'm. I read C.S. lewis almost every day.

Wow.

The stuff that I'm reading right now is the stuff on my shelves. You know, probably the only other one that I love that I've read recently is Jordan Peterson's, you know, 12 rules. I love that book. I love his thinking. You know, some people, I don't want to politicize it in any way. It's not about politics, but I just love the way he thinks. And I love how, you know, I have three boys. You guys know that, and they're young men. And so, you know, he speaks a lot to young men. And so I often think about my boys. And I think about, you know, how sometimes growing up in this society and in social media and this culture is so much harder for them than it was for me. And so what Peterson speaks about and what he's written speaks to me because I think about my kids.

And his episodes on the Joe Rogan show are really good, too.

They are awesome. I watch them over and over, man.

Same. I have, too. Yeah.

Oh, I love him. I mean, he's such a brilliant thinker, man. I mean, just so brilliant.

Very needed right now, as he said. Yeah. With a lot of distractions. I think you need that solid. Like, hey, this is what you need to show up in the world. Like, I totally agree. Yeah, man. Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I love that book.

Yeah. Well, let's wrap it up. Where should folks go find you? Explore more. Maybe dig into one. You know, find your book.

Yeah. You know, obviously the best way there is publishproteprofit.com. they can always find more about me on my website, which is bestsellerpublishing.org.org. people always ask, why isn't it dot com? Well, I own the dot com too, but I started with the dot org because the dot com wasn't available ten years ago.

I questioned that too. I was like, it's interesting. You don't see a lot of orgs, but I love that you have both. And you kept the org.

Yeah, I kept the org and I just send all the traffic from the dot com to the dot org. So there you go.

It does the trick.

Hey, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, I.

Was actually telling traffic anyway, so it's not SEO.

Yeah, that's true. It's even better.

Well, awesome, man. Rob, appreciate your time, man. And I know we'll do some more stuff together. And I love the model and everything you have, so it's something most people as Matt just shut off his computer.

Can'T see anymore, put the screen to sleep by accident. We're good, though.

I just think what you have there is super powerful, man. And anyone who has some kind of high ticket thing or just wants to get more qualified buyers in the door, this. This is the thing for him.

Yeah. Thank you. Really, really appreciate you guys. Loved spending time with you guys in Florida. Just felt like we hit it off and seemed like we had so many things in common. So thank you. Thanks for the offer for me to be on the podcast and have more fun with you guys.

Of course, man. Well, Pet Bob for me down there.

I don't know if you heard him. He barked a second ago. He was like, oh, I want to say hi.

Yeah, hi. Good boy. All right, Rob. Well, have a good one, man.

Thanks, guys. See you later.

Thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you dug it. I know Joe and I dug it. I actually kicked Joe out of the room. He's not here right now. Because I wanted to tell you about a tool that I really, really dig. We use it in our business. We recommend it all the time. It's called Easy Webinar. And it's a tool that lets you do live webinars, automated webinars hybrid webinars, and, you know, pretty much any other kind of webinar, if there are other kinds of webinars. But anyway, this tool is kind of like your all in one, do it all tool for anything webinar related. It's Easy Webinar. It's put out by a dude named Casey Zman. He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's a killer episode. He's a really smart dude, but his software is amazing. It does everything. It's, you know, the title tells you exactly what it does. It's an easy webinar platform, and we use this in our business to run automated webinars all the time. We don't do a lot of live webinars these days. We like to do the kind of automated webinars where somebody can register and then it, you know, they can either watch it like 15 minutes later or they can watch it the next day, but it's just kind of always running. And it's a system that helps us make autopilot sales off of our webinars. Super cool tool. If you haven't tried it yet, you know, it's. It's an amazing tool. And Casey is actually hooking you up. He said for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart, I can't believe he's doing this, but he said for listeners of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, he's giving 25% off of the membership to use Easy webinar. It's already super, super inexpensive for what it does and all the cool features it has. But he's hooking you up with 25% off because you're a listener of Hustle and flowchart. Go to easywebinar.com that's where you can get that 25% off discount. That's easywebinar.com hustle. It's a awesome tool. You're gonna dig it, so just go grab it. Check it out. Easywebinar.com hustle. See ya. No, not see ya. You'll hear me in the next show. I don't know. I don't know how to close these things. Go get Easy Webinar. Talk to you later.

Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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