Rob Nunnery — Why You Need To Get Away From Technology

Boom, boom, boom, Boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Hey, welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. My name is Matt Wolf and I'm here with my business partner, Joe Fear. And today we're chatting with a guy named Rob Nunnery. And this is a really, really fun conversation. What we talk about in this episode is the concept of tech fasting and why you need to get away from your screens, your TVs, your computers, your SM, why you need to put all that stuff down, get away from it, get out in nature and spend some time, you know, reconnecting with the real world outside of your technology. And we had a really fun discussion. Rob does some amazing stuff. He puts on these retreats that are like tech fasting retreats. He does these, like, mystery travel vacations where you show up at an airport and you have no idea where you're going, and then you just kind of go wherever the, you know, whatever path he leads you down. Just some really, really cool stuff, really exciting stuff, and I really think you're gonna en this episode. And before we jump in, I just want to say make sure you go over to evergreenprofits.com contact. We want you to get in touch with us. Let us know what you're thinking about the podcast. Reach out if you want help or you want to, you know, know any of the guests that we have on here and you want an introduction, anything like that. We want you to reach out. We want to be in communication with you. And, you know, we love talking to people who listen to this podcast, so definitely do that. Now let's jump in, talk about some tech fasting and some cool adventures with Rob Nunnery. Enjoy. Hey, Rob, thanks so much for joining us. How are you doing?

I am doing fantastic. Thanks for. Thanks for having me. I'm pumped to be here.

Awesome. Yeah, I think this will be a real fun one. We're going to talk a little bit about unplugging and text fasting and, you know, bringing out your adventurous side, you know, using. Using the money you make as an entrepreneur to go and do fun stuff with your life instead of just being holed up behind your technology all the time. So I think it should be a really fun, interesting conversation. It's something that. That Joe and I chat about quite frequently. So should be some exciting stuff.

I was going to say, I know one of you mentioned that one of the goals is to do a 30 day tech, fast and unplug fully. What's the inspiration there?

That's me.

Yeah.

Matt, not so much. I think he gets freaked out by that. 30 days, pretty big for me, but I'd say if it's even just a week, ten days or so, it's that deeper thinking. It's almost like creating that space where I'm not just the do, do, do, cycle, like cross stuff off the task list, send more emails. But I'd rather go into this space of let's like almost meditate, just go for a walk and then let the stuff connect almost subconsciously. That's really where I want to kind of let myself go do it on a daily process. Process, but not where I'm like, can't touch tech.

No, I love it, man. It's like, it's. It's not the same doing it daily. You have to. I really believe that it takes a few days to really kind of shut down parts of your brain that are just constantly churning and going and, and buzzing. And it's actually really interesting that, you know, with technology we've started to. We've outsourced a lot of our parts of our brain, I believe. And I just. Like an example, I was talking to somebody the other day about, was with. Think about like directions and maps. I was thinking back to like, you know, about 12 years ago when I was in college and school. I was in school in Birmingham, Alabama, at a little place called Stanford University. And I. I remember moving there for the first time at 18, and I was like, okay, trying to get my bearings. It was the first time I've ever lived in a new place. And I had to learn the streets and how to get around. And that was really engaging a part of the brain that we just don't even use anymore. Because I used to be able to connect. Okay, well, this road turns into that road and it can connect a little further down as well. Now I just put the GPS on and Google Maps in Waze and you're just off to the races. You don't even. You shut. You shut down your brain. Just follow the directions.

Yeah, no, that's interesting. I mean, it's the same thing with like phone numbers, right? Like 10 years ago I knew my, you know, 10 best friends and all my family members phone numbers. Today I know I probably have three phone numbers memorized, you know.

Exactly.

So it's almost like taking. It's, you know, in ways it's good, right, because it makes us more efficient. But in other ways it really. It turns off part of, part of what actually makes us human and what makes us think. So I'm all about just kind of rediscovering that bit and using parts of your brain and taking time to yourself to kind of rediscover some things that maybe have been there but they've just been outsourced to technology.

Absolutely. Yeah, I love it. And let's actually go back a little bit and talk about kind of how you got to that point. One thing we always like to ask our guests is we like to get a little insight into their backstory kind of, you know, what, what they were doing before they became entrepreneurs and then that sort of journey to the, you know, becoming an entrepreneur and for you, you know, this sort of realization that the, the, this tech fasting and this unplugging is important. Can you kind of walk us through that journey for you?

Yeah, it's definitely didn't just arrive here right out of the gate. Sure. It, yeah it was definitely a journey. Before, before business I had, I think I sent this over in like the, the pre interview stuff, but I had 15 different jobs all in 15 different cities. Like so I was, I was like the definition of a rambler, unstable. Didn't really know what I wanted to do, was just searching and trying to figure this thing, you know, this thing out, this life out. And I eventually started getting pitched network marketing stuff MLMs. I'm sure, you know, pretty much everybody listening has been pitched on MLM before and, and while it wasn't what I wanted to do, it was really my first introduction into business and entrepreneurship and self development and growth and that there's, that there is another way outside of purely just doing kind of what you're wired to do. Growing up, which in the south, growing up in Georgia was, you know, go to college, get a job, get a wife, have kids, save till retirement and do that. And that was just never kind of in my DNA. And yeah, so being introduced to business and entrepreneurship kind of opened my eyes for the first time. Like, whoa, there actually is another way. And that also led to a string of one, a lot of reading and a lot of just kind of educating myself on what this is. Because it's actually crazy to think about now. But after college I really did not even know what entrepreneurship was, which thinking about now is insane to me. It's actually crazy. So like what they actually want to do is go back to speak at colleges and just talk about entrepreneurship because I'm sure there's other people like me.

Dude, that actually right There. I've done that because I took an entrepreneurship class in college, which is nothing like entrepreneurship here. I still know the professor. We're actually pretty good friends. And so if I said that, he probably wouldn't get offended.

But so, yeah, I mean, I'd love to speak at schools and universities and go back and tell the younger version of myself that there is another way. And you don't have to go through this period in your 20s where you go through 15 jobs and try a bunch of failed businesses. I mean, failure is obviously a part. But there's. There's a way to speed up that process. So that would be a lot of fun. And I've actually, actually set that goal for 2018 is to @ least go back and speak at the college I went.

To.

Yeah. And share that. And I played tennis in college. So going back and speaking to that, that tennis team would be like a really easy way to. To check that off the list and at least get my feet wet and doing stuff like that. So that's it on my list. Yeah. So. But just in terms of some of the businesses that I tried to get going that were all failures before I actually. Money like one. I think one of the first ones was a website called bemybro.com. people always get a kick out of this, but like, you know, bouncing around in 15 different cities. I was always like, trying to meet new people in the new cities and make new guy friends. And this was like. I would say this was like 2008, 2009. So got the domain, built a site, and like, nothing really came to fruition. Got some, A few local meetups and stuff going. But, you know, meetup.com was actually pretty big then, still so. Or not still. It was, it was getting.

Big.

Yeah. So just little, little projects like that. But then I eventually. And during this time I had nine to five jobs and I guess what really got me into.

Into my first successful business was I was living down on the coast of Georgia in this little town called St. Simon's island, and I was working as a ad operations guy for a health tech startup in San Francisco. I was working remote and I remember I would go to this coffee shop every day and I would read. I remember. What's the Felix Dennis book? I think it's how to Get.

Rich or something like.

That. Yeah, it's a very cheesy title, but it's actually a really good book. And I remember reading that book and at this point, I was just so tired of dabbling in all these different ideas. And that I literally started crying at this coffee shop because I was so frustrated and fed up of like, 10 years of just like, you know, crappy jobs, trying to piece together a business, not knowing what business to start. And I just had, like, this breaking point where, like, I like to put it as, like, the pain was finally. The fame, the pain was finally greater than the comfort I had in the nine to five.

Job. Sure, yeah, it makes.

Sense. So I feel like until anybody gets to that point, that they won't really make that jump, or it's really difficult to make that jump because the pain's not great enough. But for me, the pain was finally great enough. And I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't know how I was going to do it. But at that point, it was like, it was almost like an internal switch that was like, okay, like, I don't care what it is. The next thing that comes up, the next opportunity that presents itself, I'm going to go at it. I'm going to go hard at it. And funny enough, like, only a few weeks later, I was on this online forum and I saw somebody posted something about this opportunity to partner in a media buying company. I didn't know what media buying was. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what online advertising was really. And I said, okay, I'll do it. And the guy, the guy was like. And I was on this forum very occasionally and I saw that the posting had closed and, like, it wasn't an opportunity anymore. But I was like, screw it, because I had had that breaking point. I was like, I'm going to make this happen one way or another. So I reached out to him and he's like, nope, it's already done. Sorry. You know, try again in a few months and we'll see if there's anything else that's changed. I was like, no, I really want to make this happen. He was in New Mexico. I was like, I'm going to fly to New Mexico tomorrow.

And talk to you about this.

He just kind of liked the balls of that. So I did it and I flew out and I had a conversation with him. I showed up at his office literally the next day from when I reached out to him on the.

Forum. Love.

It. And I didn't have much money this time. I just had a 9 to 5 job. But I just flew out there, met him at his office, and he was like. I think he was kind of surprised. I don't think he actually thought I was going to come, but he just, he loved the. Yeah, he just loved the ballsiness of it. And we chatted and, and kind of hit it off and I basically told him when I was there. I was like, look, you said it's closed, but my wife and I were gonna move here in two weeks. He's like, but it doesn't even start for a month because he's. He basically invited like five different people to come out there and start in a month or so. I was like, I don't care. I'm gonna come here in two weeks. My wife and are gonna move to Albuquerque and I'll just. I see an office right there that's open. I'll just, I'll post up in there and I'll just start getting ahead, you know, start learning ahead of schedule. And he's just, he just couldn't say no. Couldn't say no. So he's like, all right, I guess you're. Guess you're moving here two weeks. So I literally went home. I hadn't talked to my wife about at this point, by the way. She didn't know, like, really. I just told her there's an opportunity in Albuquerque. She just trusted me. And I get back to. I get back to Georgia and she's like, we're moving to where? And. But it was cool. It was cool because she was down and she's, she's always been like that. She's always been supportive and she's like, she's always had my back through all the failures and all the crap.

Stuff.

But. So I actually move out there without knowing what media buying is, without knowing what paid traffic is on, like anything. I didn't even know what a landing page was. I go out there, I start learning this stuff. I start learning how to piece together. This is like before, like leadpages, I piece together like HTML websites and basically any pages that work and I just start getting my hands dirty in it. And after a few months I was basically. They were looking for people to promote their own internal health and beauty products. And literally after a few months of just going really hard in it, I think 4th month, then I generated 50k in profit for that company. And long story short, a lot of the deals of the arrangement that I went out there, kind of the pretense changed. So me and another guy that were there, we broke off and basically started our own media buying company.

As really affiliates. We didn't just running cold traffic, not even building email lists or anything, just literally running banner ads direct to website Doing a little Google, a little Facebook at the beginning, but mainly direct site buys where we'd reach out to websites that have a lot of online traffic in the female 40, 30, 35 plus space and just run banner ads and sell health and beauty.

Products. So would you, would you actually go approach those guys and be like, hey, we can send you a lot more traffic, send you more money, let us be affiliates for you and essentially just start running traffic that.

Way? Yeah, exactly. So basically anybody that had health and beauty products like skincare, weight loss, probiotics, stuff like that, we'd reach out to them and say, hey, we don't, you know, you don't need ad budget. We're spending our own money. This is our own media cost. And you're just going to pay us a commission for every sell that we bring in. And so it's a win win for them, right? Totally. They're not paying unless they have a sale. So we did that and that's what we kind of did for the past, basically. So it was me and a partner and we, I did that basically up until the beginning of 2017. And then that's when I left and I just, it was almost another one of those breaking points where it was, I was so focused on, well, just to kind of take it back. I never got into business because I wanted to make a lot of money. It was never, ever, ever my intention. I just always wanted the freedom to do what I love and spend time with people that I love at will without having to report to somebody else. It was literally never about the money. But once I started media buying and seeing what kind of scale can be done, it very quickly turned all about the money.

Because you see, like, okay, I'm generating this kind of profit. How do I do more of that? And you kind of like, for me, it was the first time I ever had any money. So it became, it became my number one focus that makes.

Sense. I mean, that's what, that's what money can do. If you have a good system and it's coming in, you're like, how do I improve this system to grow this thing? And blah, blah, blah. And then you kind of spiral out or you.

Can. Yeah, no, that's exactly, exactly what happened as well. Like, I got really focused. Like I had a formula that worked and I just wanted to do more of that formula. And we did, and we, I mean, we did massive, massive volume in the media buying space to the, you know, some days we were spending $100,000 of our own money. Like Just massive.

Volume. When you say media buying, can. Can you sort of define that? Because I know, you know, that's sort of a broadly used term for, you know, obviously buying advertising and.

Stuff. Yeah. So with. So media buying, it's. We basically would go into Google AdWords. We had a. We had a lineup of offers and products that we were looking to promote and sell, and we had landing pages that we'd send the clicks from the ads to. So we'd go into AdWords and basically just create banner campaigns and put in 300 by 250 banners, all kinds of different sizes that would basically shoot out the ad to a bunch of different websites all across Google's network that people would click on and then land on our landing page. And then if they're interested, they would then land on our sales page. If they were still interested, they'd buy. And then we'd get paid, let's say, $40 for it. And we, we would hope that our ad cost was less than $40. So. And we'd see that, we'd see that in real time. And it turned into, like, talking about it being very financially driven. It turned into almost day trading where we're purely looking at ad spend every day versus revenue in real time and just kind of tweaking it to make sure that. That the revenue's outweighing the ad spend. And that was, that was the business. And after a few years of it, I just really got to the point where it was just like, I started asking myself different questions, like, you know, why am I doing this? This isn't ever the reason that I got into business in the first place. I always wanted to do stuff that helped people. I wanted to, you know, and I started thinking about, like, all of the things that I. That started driving me. And it was like, you know, it's not money, it's not stuff. It's not the nice car that I bought or the nice watch that I bought and all this stuff. And let's be honest, it didn't really make me much happier. And I thought about, okay, well, you know, money's not bad, so what actually is making me happy around it? And it was experiences. It was kind of getting back to the root of why I wanted to get in business in the first place. I was able to be home every day with my wife, with my dog. You know, I was able to travel at will and go see my family and go see my friends. And like, so thinking about it, like, okay, well, why am I spending all my time just literally Connected to my stats all day, whether it's my phone, whether it's my computer. I mean, I could be out with my wife, and I would literally just be refreshing my stats, like, not tweaking them, just like a crack addict, just checking. Like, I need a hit of.

It. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I'm just gonna say really quick, like, Matt and I have been in kind of a similar scenario with affiliate stuff. Not supplements and all that, but we've done similar stuff. We're driving traffic to an offer, even if it's our own. We have that, like, almost crack addiction, like you said. Where? To a point. I literally had to delete the app. Like, then my stats just. I'm like, I can't look at it. It's kind of like my form of.

Understanding. Is it.

Crazy? Yeah, no.

Totally. It's. It's insanity. I've got a buddy that's running a crowdfunding campaign right now, and he's. He said it's the same way. He, like, literally cannot stop looking at it because, you know, he's got his goal, and it just keeps creeping up minute by.

Minute. Yeah. And he.

Just. He's on it all day. It's so.

Unproductive. Oh, man. So go on. Yeah. So what was. I guess I want to get to this breaking point where, like. Because I. And I could see it, it's probably coming right now, like, where you're just like, shit, I got to.

Change. Turning into a theme. Right. I just keep hitting these breaking points. But, yeah.

Happened. It happened. Honestly, like, in the starting, like, end of 2016.

I basically went to this event in Toronto called One Last Talk. It's run by a good friend of mine named Philip McKernan. And the premise of the event is it's a bunch of different speakers that have 15 minutes to give their speech. And it can't be so similar to a TED Talk, but it can't be based on any subject. It has to be based on your own story. The talk's based around, if you were to die tomorrow, what would be your one last message to the world? Like, what do you truly care about at your core? And I just. That kind of opened up a can of worms for me because I started asking myself a lot of questions that I hadn't asked myself in a long time. Like, you know, like I said, like, what do you want to be remembered for? You know, what's important to you? What's truly important to you in life? Yeah, just all. Just all of these questions that I knew That I was out of alignment. I was, I was not on the right track and I had to make a change. And once, like, once one of those things kind of opens for me, it's really hard for me to turn it off and just keep doing what I'm doing. So I took, I literally spent. That was in Toronto. I spent the next like five days in a hotel room in Toronto just like a mess, trying to like, just lost and wondering why am I, why am I doing this? What do I really want to do? How do I want to live my life? Who's the person that I actually want to be? Is it this money hungry, driven guy that just wants to make a lot of money and that's it? And the answer is no. So that started a chain of events that basically led me to leaving or selling my half of the business to my partner in January of 2017. And I'll tell you, it was really, really hard to do. I didn't really have a game plan after that. I didn't know what I was going to do next. And it was literally just turning off a money faucet, going from good income to zero income, like literally with a click of the mouse.

To go from a. Yeah, it was, it was. Honestly, it's, it's probably. It makes me emotional because it was, it's. It's literally the proudest moment of my life that I was able to like just purely walk away from that and just because it was out of alignment, because I, because I could. But I knew I needed to do something else. And I spent the next year or so really just experimenting with different things. I started a podcast myself called Fail on, which was basically exploring failure and entrepreneurship. And I did that for. I did basically all in person recordings and interviews and I did it for a year in 2017, which was, it was really good relational. Relationally, I got to met a lot of good people, built a lot of good relationships. I didn't really have. The problem was I didn't really have any attention behind it other than having good conversations around failure. I didn't really. I wasn't building an email list, I wasn't trying to sell anything. It was literally purely a passion project, which is a lot of fun. Sure. And I'm sure relationships will serve me well. And outside of that, it's just, you know, got to deepen relationships with people that, that I got to know. So that was really cool. Yeah. And you know, so it was a struggle though, because I went from knowing exactly it's almost an identity Thing. Right. Like, who are you? I'm Rob. I'm a media buyer. I run paid traffic, and that's what I.

Do.

Yeah. To now. Like, who am I? Like, I don't know. Okay, sure. Like, yeah, I'm the host of Fail on the podcast. But then once that stopped. Okay, well, who am I now? So it was like this really, like, identity crisis almost where I lost who I was. I didn't know who I. So it kind of made me keep stripping back these layers to get to the core of who I am. And I started going. I went to a couple of different events that made me fully unplug, and it was insane. I was like, how have I not done this in years? There's a exercise where he was like, okay, put your phone on the table. It was a couples retreat. I was actually out with my wife, and Boulder, Colorado. And he's like, okay, put your phone on the table. You have two hours journal on these questions. He gives us some prompts and have lunch by yourself. So I grab lunch. I go grab my journal. I go sit by this creek, and I answer the questions in about 10 minutes. And after I answer the questions, I immediately reach for my pocket for my phone. It's not there. And I'm like, all right. So I look at my watch. It says, I have an hour and 50 minutes before I have to be back. And like, whoa, that's a lot. That's a long time to sit here without a phone and do nothing. So I just, you know, by default, I started going a little deeper on the journaling and kept writing. And I was like. It was just, like, this really big awareness that, like, why is this so uncomfortable? And why is this so hard for me? Like, why? Just to literally be without your phone? And I started thinking back. I was like, when's the last time that you literally sat on a bench by a creek, Whether it's a creek or not, but just sat here without a phone, without another human being, and just sat there and just was. And I honestly could not think of a time until before the smartphone was actually invented. Like, mid 2000, like, early 2000s. And that was like, whoa. That was like, a big eye opener for me. I was like, there's something really wrong in this. But, like, it felt really good to do it. And I got, like. I went way deeper than I would have if I had my phone on me. So I kept journaling, I kept writing, and I uncovered some deeper stuff. So that was kind of like, the genesis of me starting to do that. More often. And the more I did it, the stronger. The stronger it got for me. Like, the more benefits, and I felt more grounded. I just felt more present with the people around me. And there's some massive negatives because now, like, I'm super judgmental for people that are, like, on their phones at dinner. I just want to, like, take it out of their hands and, like, throw it against the wall. I don't blame it. Your wife's right in front of you. Why don't you have a conversation with your wife instead of, like, scrolling through.

Instagram? Yeah, I think it's funny to just, like, go to a restaurant because, like, my wife and I don't pick up our phones unless there's, like, really a need for it. Someone's, you know, emergency going on. But we kind of look around the restaurant and just, like, look at everyone else, and it's a good, like, 50% or more have their phones out. Or, you know, they're both have their phones out. That's like the death. I'm like, that relationship's going.

Nowhere. But it's insane, though. It's. It's so prevalent. It really is sad because. And I'm. I'm guilty too, right? It's like, I'm not, you know, I found this secret, and now I don't do it, and I'm perfect. Like, I still. I still get distracted, and I still do it. I'm still not always present. But I think for. For me, it's just the awareness fact, right? Like, that I can. That I can see myself doing it and, like, ask myself the question, is this. Is this really where you want your attention to be going right now, or do you want it to be going somewhere else? So it's just the awareness piece that I think is the most powerful aspect of it, of just understanding and realizing when you're actually doing it and when you're actually putting your attention somewhere where you don't want it to.

Go. Yeah. I'm curious. So what's your process now that you've kind of gone through all these ups and downs? You've seen kind of your, you know, your breaking points and now have unplugged. And there are pitfalls, obviously, to being totally unplugged, but, like, what's your process on, like, a daily, you know, what's it look like? So people here listening can kind of replicate it a little bit or try.

It. I think this is the tough part when I think about this. Like, you know, entrepreneurs typically go directly to frameworks. How can I put a framework to help people with this. But the problem is like everybody's really like, everybody lives different lives, everybody has different routines. So it's really hard to have a one size fits all for this. But there are some, just some, some different tactical, strategic things that you can do throughout the day. And I wouldn't suggest doing all of them. I would suggest just trying a couple and seeing, seeing if they work for you and your schedule. But at one of my latest retreats that I held, which is basically, it's a five day tech fasting retreat, no technology whatsoever. We were on a private island off the coast of Georgia that you can only get there by boat. And it was basically 10 entrepreneurs, 10 guys. And I asked the question, I was like, how many of you first thing in the morning, the first thing you do is pick up your phone. Every hand went up.

I literally did that for 10 years myself. And it would not only be right when I woke up, but it'd be the last thing I, you know, said goodnight to when I went to bed, got my wife my phone, which is insane. But it's, I think it's super common and obviously super common because all of these guys hands went up. So I think one of the, one of the most powerful things you could do like starting your day proactively, not reactively. Right. I think reactively is checking your phone, seeing like reacting to face, reacting to your email inbox, reacting to all the stuff that's gonna ping you and buz and notify you first thing when you wake.

Up.

Yeah. So you know, obviously, obviously morning, morning rituals are powerful but I would like, you know, if you have one, I would just start implementing, having the first two hours of your day, if possible, totally screenless, no screen whatsoever. And that just, it's a really powerful one and it's, it's much easier said than done. Believe it or not. Like it sounds so simple but, but it's hard. The addiction is real. It's a real.

Pool. Even if you don't think you have it, I'm sure you have the addiction like.

Me. Yeah, that's the thing. Yes, it's 100% true. And I think that was probably the biggest takeaway from the trip and what everybody wanted to implement was just taking the first part of the day to yourself. Focus on the things you want to focus on, think about the things you want to think about. Think about whatever your goals are. If you do your visualizations, if you have your phone even on your body or near you, it's still Distracting. Like, I can have my phone in airplane mode in my pocket and I'm still like, tweaking out. It's ridiculous. Like, airplane mode doesn't work for me. It's just not good enough. I have to have it, like, locked in a cabinet.

Somewhere. That makes sense, man. I mean, that's actively. I put my phone on the opposite side of my bed or in my room now. So it's for one, like all the emf. I don't know. Like, all that stuff's not screwing my brain, but at the same time, you know, it's. It's way the hell over there. I don't know, maybe that's some woo woo out there kind of thinking, but either way, you know, I. I totally.

Agree. I think. No, I think about that too. I was like, how many years did I sleep? I, like, I think I held my phone. Totally rocked my phone to sleep some night. Like, literally under my pillow, on my jacket. It's my.

Baby.

Yeah. Oh, no, for sure. Got a disease.

Now.

Oh, man. Okay. Yeah, no, I was just going to kind of shift a little bit into. Into talking about some of the adventures and travel that you've gotten to do. We were talking before we hit record, and right now you're kind of jumping around from Airbnbs and you're kind of living the, you know, you don't have one central location. You're kind of jumping around experiencing different locations all over the world and living that kind of lifestyle. And I thought that might be kind of a cool little topic to touch on. And I guess. I guess a starting point for that topic is once you sold the business and you turned off this cash flow that you initially had, how do you go from not having a cash flow to being this. This person that can jump around from city to city and do all the traveling because obviously there's costs involved and, you know, how did that transition look.

Like? Yeah, not good.

It looked like my bank account depleting in money is how. Is how it looked. Yeah, no, it was. It was obviously. It was obviously tough.

And like, all of last year wasn't focused really on income at all. It was just more of just creating quality stuff. And the podcast is really great. I learned a lot from it. But yeah, there is no income associated with it. And one. Yeah, I guess one business I haven't mentioned is I also own an ad network based in Orange County, California that I own 25% of, that I'm basically an investor in, and that. That actually didn't even have a good year, last year either. So there wasn't much income there. This year has been more focused on. I'm doing a little consulting work, some marketing help for people.

I'm just doing some odd jobs, I guess you could.

Say.

Yeah. And I guess what my. What my real focus on is now is creating amazing experiences for people, honestly. And everything I.

Do. And.

One. One piece of clarity I got is everything I do is purely around helping people find presence, be able to live in the moment, and also create moments and memories that will actually give you a life that you can look back on that's. That's truly.

Rich. That's great.

Yeah. Because I don't believe a life's made up of material stuff. I think when you die, that's. That's either going to your kids or it's going nowhere. And I think the most powerful thing you can look back on in life is all of the beautiful moments that you share with other people. So, yeah, man, that's. That's literally my life mission is to help people. Help people see that, feel that, and live like.

That. Yeah, that's.

Cool. No, that's really cool. It's funny, we went to this event a couple weeks ago, and they actually had us go through this exercise. And the exercise was on a piece of paper, write down what your ideal day looks like. If just the perfect day. This is like you went to sleep thinking, man, this was just amazing. I loved my day today. What does that look like? And then he had some people read some examples, and they were all things like, you know, getting out there and exercising and going for a walk and spending time with my wife and spending time with my kids and playing in the backyard. And, you know, and literally nobody who stood up and talked had anything that was like, I want to own a Ferrari or a mansion or, you know, the next Apple watch. There was literally no stuff involved in anybody's perfect day. And it was just so fascinating to see that. And I think that kind of falls along the same lines of what you're talking about.

Here. Yeah, you nailed it. Like, I did this exercise, but it was like, basically, it wasn't the perfect day. It was basically, take inventory of the five happiest days of your life. And I went back and did that, and every one was me, like, being outside, adventuring, exploring, being with people that I love. None of it was buying a house or buying a car or buying a watch or any of those things. Right. It was the moments and the.

Memories. That's the thing. Yeah. And that's why I'm constantly like, my goal is. And this is kind of a short term, but also it's just a life goal is. Yeah, it's to have enough in the bank account where, you know, that's not something on the brain, but to release from screens or even be inside, like, that's like, at any point I can I go outside. That's just where my head just feels more at home. It thinks deeper, and I just feel at peace. And it's exactly what you said. Like, that's all my happy memories are, like, out there doing something being kind of physical a little bit.

Too. Yeah. I actually, like, just thinking back, like, yesterday was so simple for me. Like, it was. We were at my friend's lake house in North Carolina, Little lake called, I think Mayo Lake. And he just has, like a little dock and this big. This big raft. And it was just, you know, me, my wife, and my dog just like, hanging out. Hanging out in the water on the lake, on this raft. And it was just like, does it get better than this? It literally does not. Like, this is. And I don't. Literally, in my life, I don't need anything more than.

This.

Yeah. I don't care where I am. I don't care, like, how big my house is. If I have the people that I love and I'm, you know, being a good person and I'm. I'm doing the things that I want to do. Nothing else really.

Matters. I love it, man. That's. I mean, that's. That's wise. Wise words. And I think the big thing, the takeaways here for listeners is it's the journey. There's not specific frameworks like you said, because I know we're guilty of. Give us the quick sheet. The Cliff Notes version of this thing. No, it's your journey. It's all personal. But with your story here, there's so many things that someone can latch onto and be like, I could see that. I've felt that in my life I should make this change. Or I can make this change and kind of bring an awareness, like you.

Said. No, totally. And again, like you said, it truly is the awareness. But one of the craziest things to me, like, I had a Facebook group for the people that came on my last trip, and I just threw out a challenge for them. I was like, just go 12 hours this weekend. Like, let's say 8am to 8pm Just no technology, no phone, no screen. And there is so much resistance to that that they wouldn't do.

It. Oh.

Wow. It Was crazy. Like the people that know they're going on a trip with no technology could not commit to it. So I really feel that like whether it's my trip or whether it's somebody else's trip, I don't care. But it's really hard to do this on your own. It just. There's too many stimuli and things that will pull you away from it. So if you have the chance to, even if you just take a few friends and just commit to it and go on a little trip together over a weekend, three days, whatever, just do it. Like there's so much power in just fully disconnecting, like some of the conversations you'll have or like the greatest things you will ever remember. There's a lot of power in.

It. That's a cool exercise. And I'm just thinking because I've actually actively done this now where I was at a family party the other night and I actively put my phone in my car and left it there. I'm like, I'm not bringing that with me. I don't care about taking pictures and all that crap. I don't need to answer a text right now. But it's like baby steps like you said. Maybe it's as small as what I did there for three hours or a three day trip with, you know, some friends in the woods or something, but either way, take those.

Steps. Yeah, totally. And I started to do these like little mini vacations myself. Just like solo without my wife, without my dog, any, like I'll go at least. It's typically like at least 45 minutes to an hour away and I'll spend two nights totally by myself. No technology. Because there's something powerful with like spending no. Having no tech time by yourself.

It just lets me be way more creative. It lets me go different places, it lets me rediscover like, you know, different layers to myself. Whereas then if you're just doing it with somebody else, you're having amazing conversations and you're being really present. But I think there is, there's also a time for kind of self reflection and self discovery.

Too. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Now we gotta, we gotta kinda start wrapping up here on the timing with this thing. We do have a couple last questions that we ask everybody on the show. One of the questions we love to ask, are there any books that have had a real positive impact on your life that maybe you reread every so often or you find yourself recommending a lot to.

People? Yeah, it's a really old one. It's actually the first. I think it's the first business book I ever read. It's not so much business. It's like kind of is Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz. I don't know if you guys know that. Okay. Yeah, it's a classic. It's old. It's just great, though. Some of it's kind of old school mentality and stuff and geared towards salesman and doing some cheesy stuff. But it was the first one that really. That really just showed me there's more out.

There. It's interesting actually, because I read that book while I was in Rocky Mountain national park in Colorado with no.

Technology.

I love it. That's.

Awesome. It's the universe saying, unplug, Matt. Unplug more. That's cool. Well, Rob, where should people learn about you? Maybe your retreats and stuff? Because I know you hold those. Maybe you can give a quick little blurb on that.

Too. Yeah. So everything that I do can be found@puituitofpresence.com pursuit of presence. And then I also have Secret Voyage, which is a site you can go to that I basically organize surprise mystery vacations for couples. So whether it's your honeymoon anniversary or just because romantic trip will basically organize the whole thing all over the world, where you show up at the airport the day of, don't know where you're going, and you find out then. And it's just again, it's just creating these magical memories and moments that people will take with them for the rest of their lives. And it really forces them to be in the moment if they can't plan their whole trip. And basically each. Each day you have a new envelope to open and you find out what you're doing that day, that morning. So it forces you to. Forces you to just enjoy.

It. That's super cool. I like that. Secret Voyage. We actually met with a guy. And you're probably familiar. It sounds just like this. A guy named Joel Runyon from Impossible.

Hq. I don't.

Know. Nope, don't know him. Okay. Because he was describing something very similar to what you said there, the whole secret voyage thing. And yeah, I latched onto that idea. But the fact that you hold those, I'm like, holy crap, this is cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. The thing that Joel was talking about was you go out and you stay in like a tiny home in an undisclosed location. You don't even know where you're going, but you go and stay in a tiny home with no technology for like a.

Week. Yes. Not so.

Dissimilar. I Love it, man. Well, go check out your stuff. Or not you, but everybody else listening. We'll link everything in the show notes for sure. So you have the links and you can check them out, because these little retreats. I know. That's something I want to go on for.

Sure.

Yeah. No, that sounds fun. I mean, the idea of tech fasting scares me a little bit, but that, what you just said excites me quite a.

Bit. No, I love.

It. So.

There'S. Yeah, there's something for everybody.

Exactly. I love it. All right, Rob, well, thanks for your time, man. And we'll chat again for.

Sure. Matt, Joe, thank you. You guys are the best. Appreciate it.

Guys. All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this. This cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool, free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next.

Episode. You're awesome.