Robert Stanley — How To Create A Business Driving Sales Leads

Welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your hosts, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. I'm Joe Fear with my co host and co amigo and brother and whatever is funky looking guy across the table.

From me, your hetero life mate, Matt. Wow.

So we're already going down that route. Cool.

That's a Kevin Smith reference. Just in case anybody didn't know.

There we go. Thank you for Clari. Today on the show, it's not just two of us, but we have the number one self imposed, number one rated lead gen artist master of the world online, Robert Stanley or Rob Stanley. Not Bob or Bobby. It's the Rob name, go with that. So yeah, this guy's a badass with lead gen and a whole bunch of other stuff that we probably don't know about until we get into it in this episode. So thanks for being on, Rob.

Thank you guys. For sure.

So, yeah, I mean he's. You're in the same office with Aaron Fletcher and Aaron and Paul and Paul Said, which have both been on the podcast. So we're like making the rounds in your office.

We need to start going door to door next time we're over there and asking if they want to be on our podcast.

Who else?

Yeah, we've got two more guys moving into our office, so you can ask them next.

Perfect. Next month. We have half our podcast lined up already, so. Cool, man.

Yeah.

So I mean, just, you know, just to kind of recap. The point of this show obviously is to take apart some of your systems and approaches to business and life and then try to give a little system or template people can swipe.

I guess, give a little background. What's your big focus? What's your big thing?

My big thing for the last four years has been paid advertising for the purposes of generating leads.

My focus markets are legal, so a lot of our clients are attorneys and then real estate. Before the housing crisis crash or whatever, we did primarily real estate. So fix and flip lead gen and mortgage guys and stuff like that. I also have or we also have a smattering of other clients in our portfolio that just kind of come in through referral, but those are our primaries. We've recently started experimenting with like coupon type offers for retail, things like that. We don't quite have that dialed in, but when it comes to generating leads for.

Real estate and legal work, we're top notch. We also have. From my days as an info marketer, I don't Know, if you guys recall, I used to be in that info business. I have a bunch of guru clients as well. So we do some lead gen for some gkic market leaders. One of them happens to be in the legal space. We actually do some B2B lead gen as well. That's all primarily through Facebook. So we do a lot of creative things with retargeting regular ad targeting on both Facebook and Google. And that's been our focus for the last four years. Prior to that, we did a little bit of everything, you know, SEO and things like that as well. But yeah, because I knew you were doing that. The best way to produce fast results for people consistently is to buy the ads. SEO, as you guys know, then Google kind of changes its mind one day and then stop.

We're in the same boat. Now, when you say you generate leads, what is considered a lead for your client?

That's a great question, actually, because everybody kind of interprets it differently. So to the extent that it's in our control, we determine a lead as someone who has responded to a targeted advertisement, either by a phone call, so a direct phone call to the client, or they filled out a form with some information request. So name, address, phone number. In some cases, we might even pull in additional data, like their bankruptcy attorneys, like how much debt they have, whether they're currently employed, things like that. So it kind of depends on the campaign, but the way we measure it is cost per action or cost per lead. And we determine the lead kind of based on what the client wants, but it's either a phone call or a web form with some data attached to it.

That makes sense. Yeah.

Now, how did you get into lead generation? Did you just kind of decide, I'm really, really good at driving traffic, and so that's what I'm going to do? And, you know, how did you go down that path of this is kind of my superpower that I'm going to sell?

Good question as well. It kind of happened by accident, to be honest. So when I first got into the Internet marketing game in the mid-2000s, I was buying advertising to sell affiliate products. And, you know, that's. And I only did paid traffic at that time. And I ran into a buddy from high school who happened to own a chiropractic practice, and I just told him what I was up to, and he was like, hey, man, you think you could get me clients doing the same thing? And I said, I have no idea. Let me try. And those were the earlier days where it was much less complex and Easier to do. And we were able to get his Fonda ring pretty quickly. He started referring me to a bunch of other chiropractors that he went to school with. And my marketing business was born that way. Now, originally, I wasn't focused purely on lead gen because at the time it really wasn't the only thing we did. We also kind of did SEO. And so that was one of those things that's hard to quantify. Tracking can be difficult, things like that. It was only after I sold my information marketing business to my partner that I started to focus purely on lead gen because that's really what anyone cares about. I don't care if you're a small business or a large business. Know, whether or not they can actually do something with the leads after you generate them for them is a different conversation. Because 90% can't, which is probably the most frustrating part about generating leads. But what they want is leads. Everybody thinks they want leads. So, well, it's the life. Like selling ice cream to kids. You know, if they've got the money, they're gonna buy it.

Yeah, yeah. Now, speaking of that, do you. So, yeah, obviously you're not really. Or do you help them later down the line or is it your job kind of stops once you give them the lead?

I've tried to. The problem is that you don't control their internal business process. I would say, like one of the most. You know. So I'll consult with them. So I'll tell them things that they're doing wrong or they could do different or best practices. In fact, we'll even write phone scripts for them. We have a portfolio of phone scripts that I've written. I have my own sales process. I consider myself a student and a master of selling and marketing and copywriting. Copywriting is a big part of being a good online marketer. So we'll help them with things like that. The problem is you can't control their staff or whether or not they'll read the scripts, stuff like that. So sometimes we'll audit the phone calls because we'll typically recommend they use a system like a CallRail or if by phone, which is now called something else or something, one of those phone services that allows you to record calls and also track lead source information. I'll typically audit the calls, particularly if they're a brand new client or if they seem like they're frustrated, like they don't think stuff's working. And I'll just shoot over a bunch of calls to them and go, look, it took a minute for your office to answer or listen to what this person said or. I mean that's really where the issue happens on the phone side and then where the issue happens on the, you know, someone filling out a form and requesting information from your business or an appointment or something like that, your time to response and then the follow up on those inquiries is probably the biggest thing. So you know, you could generate. There's one guy that we generate a ton of leads for. We generate like 200 leads a month for him and he has a really good process in place. So he converts a high percentage because they have phone, follow up, direct mail, follow up, email follow up. I mean they hammer these folks. So he gets a really good ROI of his lead gen, whereas others will generate 100 leads for him and they'll only turn, you know, 20 clients out of that or 20 appointments or whatever the metric is that they're using. So a lot of it comes down to their business process. But having said that, if you've got no leads at all, you don't even know that you have a lead follow up or lead piece conversion process problem. Right. So the reason the first thing people want is leads is because that's typically where they feel like they're lacking the most.

Yeah.

So this is kind of a random thing. I don't even know if you're into it, but chatbots, that's kind of like it was like the top.

You mean like the new thing on Facebook messenger, for example?

Kind of, yeah. Have you ever experimented any kind of lead lead gen that way?

We have our. Again with that one. Our biggest challenge at least with Facebook. So we've done chatbot automation with Facebook. Our biggest challenge with there is you can great metrics on response rates and chat queries and stuff like that. But if you're dealing with retail, like which is the area that we've practiced with that the most because we'll give them coupon codes and stuff. So we found that it's difficult to track those coupon codes because a lot of people will respond and then call in and not mention the code or what have you. So it's a little bit wonky in terms of tracking, but we're definitely experimenting with it. You get a strong response. In fact, I think our last test to generate a chat inquiry or chat lead, it was like a dollar, which is really cheap. But our issue is trying to figure out how you get that dollar chat conversation into a client and then track it for our clients. And there again we don't have the Currently have the capacity or the systems in place to manage the chat for them, which would be ideal. So their staff has to do it. And so if they're not super responsive on chat, like the bot will only go so far. And then a human has to get involved in some cases.

Totally.

Right.

Yeah. It's just start the conversation.

Yeah. And then like for. So one of our clients is like a med spa and so they don't happen to have like an online appointment setting thing because it'd be really cool if we could auto interact with chat and then just send them an appointment link and they could schedule online because then we could track that.

Yep.

That their current situation is that they have to interact with them manually. So I think that technology is going to be great when it has a little bit more. Like I'd love for it to be able to interact with Facebook lead ad platform, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. So the ability to generate a form right inside of Facebook. Yep. What we have messed with is Facebook Canvas as a landing page inside of a campaign. We haven't yet tested that inside of the chat program, but that's probably our next step because then we can put things like, you know, initiate checkout Pixel or something so we can tell that they went from the chat to the landing page and track it a little further down the process. Hmm.

I love it.

Yeah, that's cool. Now when you have a customer, how do you actually charge the customer for the leads? Is it different for every niche? You know, is it a retainer? Is it a they pay you per lead? How does that whole process work?

That's a good question. So we've always been on the kind of retainer for services model. So we have a pricing structure in place for, you know, if you're going to run this many campaigns on Facebook with this kind of budget, this is what our retainer is. And then we have setup fees because a lot of these guys or gals, the businesses don't have their page set up correctly. They may not have any database in place, stuff like that. So it kind of depends on what their needs are. But for our monthly services, we just charge flat fee for, you know, for services. And so we manage. And our metric that we manage against for all our clients is cost per lead. So if they don't have current cost per lead data, then we typically recommend that we run a 30 to 60 day trial period to figure out what the cost per lead amounts look like. We'll tell them, here's what your cost Per lead is here's, you know, how many leads we generated. How does that look and feel to you? How does that compare to other things you've done? You know, can we do better or if we have data in that market, we already kind of know whether that's, you know, on point. In terms of cost per lead generation. I can tell you for Facebook we can get leads for as little as $4 with full address, phone number, everything. And then other markets it could be high as $50. It just kind of depends on. It depends on the city, the geography, like how competitive it is, how much traffic is available and then also what the kind of the niche is. So it really varies a lot based.

On those factors and the value of those leads. I mean, I know those can go and they can range like crazy, but attorney leads, that's pretty freaking big.

Yeah. Excuse me. It depends on the law practice area. But like on average, I would say for, and this is a really kind of.

Moderate guess as to what it's worth. I'd say whether it's divorce or bankruptcy, typically your low to middle end clients can be worth at least two grand, upwards of ten. In the divorce areas, bankruptcy could be upwards of four or five grand. So you know, if you're generating a bunch of leads at 20 bucks a piece or even a hundred, we've kind of found that in the legal space for the one, those niches where they can collect between two and $10,000 per client, that $100 cost per lead is acceptable, not desirable, but acceptable. Particularly if they have a good lead follow up and closing process. If they don't, then they're just throwing away money as is often the case Now.

I'm curious why you don't do lead generation to affiliate offers anymore. Because that actually kind of describes mine and Joe's main business model right now is we've gotten really, really good at generating traffic through paid advertising to various affiliate offers. So do you still do that or did you move out of that completely?

Yeah, that was just a question of focus for me. So, you know, I think we have as marketers and as business owners, we have like add, right. So there's, even though I'm really focused on this particular, not only this retainer based business, but primarily focused on the legal niche. And I have a very specific process. It's taken me, I don't know, six years to get it refined to where it is and so it's really solid and I know what's going to happen when we bring on a client. I know how we're going to approach it, like all that kind of stuff. So as you know, anytime you take on a new niche or a new market or a new project, you kind of have to relearn certain things and that slows you down. And so from my perspective, that just takes away from what I'm doing now that's working and generating revenue. So I do have some side projects, but they're not in the affiliate, you know, pay for commission type, pay per lead, per sale space. I have done that in the past. I've been successful with it. I liked it. I think part of it is also my background because I grew up in the IT space before I did this. And so I was in the kind of service industry model, outsourced services model. So it's just a business model I understand and am comfortable with.

So it's more of like. Yeah, like what you're running now is more of a legion agency. More or less.

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, you could say we're a digital agency, we do website and do some SEO stuff and whatever, but I like to lead with the fact that we're lead generators. I mean, that's what we focus on and try to deliver the most.

Now, what's your favorite lead source between, let's say, Google Search, Google Display and Facebook?

Well, right now I think it's true for everybody that Facebook's kind of the favorite because you can really, if you get a really good campaign going, you can get a massive amount of leads for really cheap compared to, like Google.

I'm not a huge fan of SEO. We typically only do SEO to necessity because clients demand it or request it. On the Google pay per click side, my favorite.

Approach now is kind of their pay per call. They call them call only campaigns. So we run a lot of those. There's a lot of different nuances to that. It's mobile only, so you can do mobile search, which could include mobile calls, or you could do mobile call only. We'll test those two things because in some markets we find that one works better than another. And then the other thing that's really interesting in like some really rural kind of areas, we find that mobile doesn't work that great. So desktop search and the cost per lead is lower than mobile and the response rate's higher. So the real answer to that question is that it all kind of depends on the market and the offer and the niche. So you have to know how to go about testing those things and stuff. And as you know, not only do the markets Vary, but the technology changes a lot and the costs for advertising change. So you have to kind of stay on top of all that stuff.

Yeah.

So we, you know, we use a lot of. And I know this is a lot of what you guys talk about is automation stuff where you use a lot of software tools. I mean, like, I'll buy any kind of software tool if it'll save us an hour.

Yeah.

Or two. We're all about it, you know, or make us more consistent in our ability to deliver. Right. Like two of the tools that we invest quite a bit of money in as an agency is we use Wordstream now to kind of do our high level management of all pay per click accounts for on the Google stream.

Okay.

And then we use ad Espresso for Facebook's for a lot of split testing and things. Now those tools will only take you so far. You have to dive down underneath into the, you know, Facebook Ad Manager and Google AdWords directly sometimes, but we also have a process for doing that. But those platforms help us keep us really consistent in terms of how we set up accounts and monitor them and split test in some cases.

Got it. Okay, that was interesting because Matt was just writing down a question like, what are some software tools that are imperative?

Yeah. So for us, those two are the main ones in terms of managing paid advertising. We also use Semrush. Semrush. I've had an account with them for more than 10 years. I think that tool has evolved quite a bit.

Yeah, we've, we've used that for a while. We use something slightly similar now. Yeah, we just weren't using it a lot, but I know, yeah, we got.

Something else that's like the same thing as Semru Rush, but it was like a lifetime deal on Appsumo, but we can't remember the name of right now.

Even better. But yeah.

Oh, go ahead. Was it. Were there some other ones tools?

Yeah. So. Well, I'll, you know, back to your question about what's their favorite platform. So Facebook's our favorite and right now lead ads is our favorite ad type on Facebook because we can get so much information for so cheap. So like when you use lead ads, essentially it pops up a little web form inside of the advertisement and that form itself is inside of Facebook. And if the form fields that you want populated, if Facebook already has data for it, it'll be pre populated. So you can essentially tell someone, hey, if you'd like a copy of our book, click this button. They click it, it pops up, It'll Already have their name and phone number and address and all that sort of thing in there. So they don't really have to do much.

Right.

They have to fill out the fields that are empty. What we discovered early on is just letting them click yes on that, not have to confirm or anything. Made the lead quality really stinky. So we actually had a second step in there. Facebook actually gives you this feature where you say, are you sure you want to do this? You're requesting this book and we need your address to ship it. And they say yes, they're sure. So you get kind of a double confirmation. Yeah, we like that. We love that. The thing that stinks about it right now is that it only goes straight inside of Facebook. So the only way you can pull those leads down is to go into your Facebook page and pull down a CSV file. So we use. There's several tools out there, but we use Zapier to pull them out, primarily because some of our clients have CRM, some don't. So we'll pull them down via Zapier, we'll throw them into a Google Docs spreadsheet, we'll email them the lead, and if they have a CRM, we'll also stick it in CRM. And if you've ever had this, one of the things that's great about automation is you can automate a lot of that stuff. Right. What's bad about it is you're typically gluing together a bunch of tools through APIs, and those APIs can break. Yeah. So we've learned over time that we need to stick the lead in multiple locations so that we can automate. And also, if there's some sort of breakage between an infusionsoft and zapier, for some reason, we have the backup copy in the spreadsheet, and then the client also has the backup copy email, that kind of thing. So.

Got it.

Yeah. Yeah. And then. And then, of course, if you are familiar with tools like Zapier, if then else, or whatever, you can just do all kinds of cool things with those. With those data points or those leads as they come in, automate lots of things. You could stick them into your QuickBooks account. You could do all kinds of cool stuff.

Yeah. We do the same thing for our letter subscribers is it's firing over to. Yeah. Our fulfillment, our, you know, spreadsheets sheet. CRM Fulfillment Center. Not completely yet, but we're getting there, you know, so it's completely automated.

Yeah. And so one of the things I think we bring as a value to our clients is we handle all that for them. Like they don't have to know all that stuff.

Yeah, of course.

It's one thing to know how to set up a Facebook account, run an ad. It's another thing to know all the ins and outs of how to set up the technology and like what the best tools are like espresso or zapier or whatever. So we have processes for that.

Yeah. Yeah, let's take it back then. And so talking about lead ads, maybe this is the answer, maybe it's not. But so someone who's looking to get more leads.

Maybe they're not a crazy wizard at paid ads and whatnot. But what would be kind of the best and the easiest setup for someone to just kind of get cracking with this?

Yeah. What would be like the first steps someone would take if they're going to.

Run lead ads or just run leads themselves?

Just your best. Yeah, you think the best. Any kind of ads you can think of.

So I think as far as I think the best for Facebook, but they're not the easiest. Like the Facebook management interface and the process for setting stuff up is pretty convoluted. I've actually held workshops where I've tried to teach small business owners how to do this stuff and it just does not work.

They change everything all the time.

They get lost and it's not really their fault. It's just really complicated. I would say the easiest, easiest one to do if you like wanted to make the phone ring tomorrow would be Google call only. And if you don't have the cash to hire an agency, you just really just phone up Google and say, I want to set up an advertising account and generate calls and tell them you want to do a call only campaign. And they actually have people on staff now that will set that stuff up for you. Will it be the most optimized? Probably not, but it will be better than if you did it yourself.

So Google actually has, they actually do have kind of like a full service. You call them up and they'll, they'll.

Dial it in and yeah, they have kind of like a, I forgot the name for it. It's probably changed over the years, but it's almost like a client success program or something. They, they were really keen on signing on, you know, small businesses for quite a while and they built a whole team that, that handles that now and that's much better than if like somebody tried to do it themselves. The issue you'll have long term, like if you start spending more than a couple thousand Bucks a month is that they're going to be not very efficient. Right. So they're going to kind of set it up and then let it run and they're not going to optimize or split, test or do anything for you. They're basically their job is to onboard you and get you spending money on Google.

Right.

So and you know, and they'll try to get you some success, but that's not their primary focus. Their primary focus is to bring people on the platform and get them going on advertising.

Yep.

Now that makes sense. So yeah, Google, Google call that, you know, call ads.

Basically call Google and tell them you want to do a campaign, you want to do call only don't let them do. They'll try and talk you into doing all kinds of other stuff. But if you, assuming you have somebody to answer phones, I'd go for call only.

Now can you set it up yourself if you wanted to or do you have to call Google and have them set it up for you?

No, you could totally set it up yourself. It's just if you've never done that sort of thing, you're going to spend days, if not weeks just learning it before you even, you know, have a click or a call.

And that's the thing though. Yeah. We're trying to get past for all these listeners because I know I've been guilty in the past getting stuck in the learning and it's like how the hell do I do this?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean even if you could, I mean you could even in theory just go on like an outsourced. What is it now? It's not Odesk anymore.

Upwork.

Upwork? Yeah, you could go on an upwork and hire somebody per hour to like set up your account or even audit what Google set up for for you.

The challenge with that is whether or not you trust them. So you kind of have to look at their ratings and maybe come up, get some interview questions to ask them or something from an expert or off of a moz type website or something so you can qualify them a little bit. But there is a way to outsource that stuff. I mean if you don't have to hire a full agency.

Yeah, I actually had a question about your Facebook ads. Do you have like a specific process or some sort of framework or anything that you use to determine Facebook ad targets? Because I feel like one of the most difficult parts about Facebook advertising is actually dialing in the proper, most targeted targets. So I'm just curious what your process or framework or whatever you use for that is.

Yeah, so I'll step back for a second and use a little bit of, like, layperson terminology in case someone listening has no idea what you're talking about. So the.

Ad targeting is your. What they refer to as your audience. Right. And your audience. If you could imagine your audience as a fishing pond, and you were going to fish in it, and you wanted to catch one specific kind of type of fish, which is your customer, like, what you'd really want to do is have a fishing pond. You start out with a fishing pond, or maybe you start out with the ocean. It has, like, all these millions of different kinds of fish in it, and you want to squeeze it down into this little tiny pond where nothing's in there but the kind of fish you want. Like, say, big mouth bass. So you imagine a fishing pond with nothing but big mouth bass. And then that way, when you cast your reel into the water, you have a certain kind of bait that's designed just to catch that kind of fish. That's kind of what you're going for in terms of analogy when it comes to audiences on Facebook. So to answer your question, what that requires is that you understand what kind of fish you're going after. In other words, what's your perfect target customer? And a lot of people refer to that as your avatar. So the only way to approach that is to first attempt to identify your avatar. Another way to think about the avatar is, if I could fill a room with 200 people who you could pitch your product or service to, who would you want in that room? That's your avatar, your audience. From a more technical perspective, to answer that question, we've had much.

What am I trying to say? We've had far more success recently by loading either past customer list, past prospect lists, and then having Facebook match those and then build custom or similar audiences out of those. So in other words, if we load a hundred people who purchased a widget from us into Facebook, Facebook will say, hey, we see these hundred people. There's 50 on here that we recognize that have Facebook accounts. You say, great, could you give me another 2,000 people or a million people that look like those 50? And Facebook will say, yes, and so they'll give you a similar audience. I know you guys are familiar with this process.

And so what we used to do is apply filters to that similar audience. So in other words, if our perfect target customer was a male over 40 who liked to exercise, you know, you could go on to Facebook and try and find someone by looking at the Demographics, you could definitely find them a male and over 40, and then people who are interested in physical fitness and exercise. But what we used to do is load that list of hundred people. They'd give us a 2 million match that. We'd apply that filter of the male who likes exercise and is over 40 to that list. And we found that we actually had lower cost per lead and greater success in most cases if we just didn't even touch the similar audience list. So that's probably one of the things that we've played around with the most in terms of, like, just letting Facebook do its job in terms of matching the audience getting out of the way.

That's super interesting. Yeah.

And the other part or the other aspect of that is they do have some technology in place there that kind of figures out if your campaign goal is to generate leads, they can kind of figure out who's responding among that list to become a lead, and then they'll, you know, kind of custom filter out the people. Now, along those lines, we'll also use adespresso. Adespresso allows us to build campaigns by audience types, so we could have the exact same advertising campaign for men over 40, women over 40, college grads, non college grads, et cetera, et cetera. And then we'll look at the ad data based on the responses in those different campaign categories through adespresso and tell us, oh, hey, our cost per lead on women over 40 who are college grads is $10, and our cost per lead on non graduates is $50. Do we want the non graduates or not? I mean, what's the goal there? And then you can kind of refocus your campaign based on the response rates and cost per leads, and it's a constant. You guys know this. I'm sure if you're advertising on Facebook, it's kind of a constant game of tweaking and targeting and playing with ad copy, etc.

Yeah, we actually used to use Adespresso quite a bit, but now we've started using a tool called Connect Explorer. I'm not sure if you've heard of that or not.

I have, yeah. In fact, I have it.

I just haven't used it with adespresso. I mean, you're very familiar with how it works, but for anybody listening, you can actually go in there and say, I want to target these four interests, and it will actually break out all the interests for you into separate ad sets. So you can actually find out which interests are working. Well, with Connect Explorer, you can Make a single ad set, load four interests into that single ad set, and Connect Explorer will tell you which interests are working, which ones aren't. So you can optimize just one ad set instead of four ad sets.

I like it.

So that's why we kind of switched to that over adespresso lately. Because you don't have to. Because with adespresso, you're going to set up four, six ad sets and then you've got your budget and then that budget has to get divided among all of those. Well, Connect Explorer, you can create just one ad set, optimize that one ad set and start pulling out interests or adding in interests based on what's effective.

Yeah, So, I mean, like I said, I'm a fan of automation. I own that tool. I haven't had a chance to play.

With it yet, but I bet you will.

Now I have a subscription to every advertising software tool known to man.

Yeah, we're in the same boat.

We're in the same boat. It's just a matter of having time to test them and get them to work. And as you know, like, once you have a business process in place, using something, retraining your staff and anyone else who's using it can be more pain than it's worth sometimes. But.

Having said that, I will now look at it because I know that.

Yeah, very cool. Right on. Let's see. I think we're wrapping it up a little bit here. We're getting there. So what's a. This is kind of like off. Not off topic, but different question. But what's. What's one book you would recommend that. Yeah. Maybe you reread every year or just something that's just a. Have to. Yeah, you got to read this thing.

Two, probably, that you guys know about. So predictably irrational. I reread that probably once a year.

Okay.

And Cialdini's, what is it? Influence. The science of persuasion.

Influence. Yeah, the first one.

Yeah. And then on an ongoing basis, any kind of like copywriting, swipe type stuff. So I like to subscribe to things that have different variations of advertisements to not only look at the language, but also any of the more modern ones that actually swipe stuff. What's the one that does which test? One, I guess it is. Is that the name of the site?

Oh, there's the site. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They actually do like landing plates split tests and sometimes advertising split tests and stuff, and they share those. So I know that's not a book, but that's something I go to regularly. So yeah, yeah, for sure. And then also recently, more mindset stuff too, to be honest, which is more like personal development. So.

Right.

One of the, one of the things that you'll realize as you start to grow your business is that most of your limitations are not your ability, but your mind, the way you think about things and the way you approach things.

Yeah, 100%, definitely. Cool. There's one other question we like to ask, and it's kind of a weird one, but is there any questions that we haven't asked that you think we should have asked?

Any questions that you haven't asked that you should have asked?

It's always a stumper.

It is kind of a stump.

Yeah. Probably one question you didn't ask was about calls and call tracking that you probably should have asked. Most people should ask because in fact, from a Legion perspective, that's the most complicated thing to track. Not that a call was generated, but that the call was of good quality and that the source came from Facebook versus Google.

And a lot of people get that wrong. So that in combination with some sort of CRM system. So this goes back to kind of the back end, follow up process stuff. So I think if your business is call centric, having call tracking analytics and lead source tracking related to your calls is super important. And then on top of that having some sort of decent CRM in place, now you can't afford a good CRM. You can always start with spreadsheets, like a Google sheet or something, and then move on from there. But putting all that data into a place where you can kind of compile it, look at it, even if you can't do it today is something that I think is just as important as generating the lead.

Now in terms of that call tracking, is there a piece of software or something, a process you'd recommend?

Well, there's a bunch out there. My personal favorite right now is CallRail.

We're looking at developing some of our own software around that type of thing because it doesn't do all the things we want. But CallRail, it's pretty darn cheap, very easy to understand and simple to set up. So we recommend that to all our clients.

So does that essentially give a different phone number based on the source?

Yes, it has a little piece of code you put on your website and it'll flip out the number based on the lead source. And then you can, if you have static campaigns, like campaigns that don't drive calls or people to your website that could potentially call, you can just do kind of static lead Tracking numbers. So you know, every call generated from that number is from Google or from Facebook, et cetera.

Got it.

That's interesting. And more importantly, you can pipe all that data back into cool things like infusionsoft or Google Analytics so you can get total call volume metrics and stuff like that.

Awesome.

Tricky, tricky. Maybe there's a way we can add in call in features for us. Matt, we haven't thought about that. That's like one type of ad. We're like nap, not us.

But yeah, Joe's apartment will be our sales channel.

Talk about it offline, let me know.

Sounds good. All right, Rob, anything else that you want to unload on us or anything?

Well, let's. Where do you want people to go after listening to this? You know, where can they learn more about you or what you do?

You can learn more about me personally at robert m.stanley.com or you can go to my agency site, which is Local Pulse Marketing. Local Pulse, like fill your pulse. Local Pulse Marketing.

Got it.

Cool.

Awesome.

Right on, man.

Well, all right, guys.

Thank you for being on here.

Appreciate it. To catching up with you in the near future here. Cool.

All right, man.

See later.

Hey, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Now, if you don't know already, myself and my partner Joe Fear, every single week we put together this killer weekly newsletter that's completely free. If you go to theweeklyprofit.com you can get on this weekly newsletter. And what we do with this newsletter is we scour the Internet. We read every piece of content, listen to blog posts, check out new software and tools, and we distill down the best of the best into a weekly newsletter and deliver it directly to your inbox every single week. So head over to theweeklyprophet.com and make sure you're signed up to receive that weekly newsletter. You're going to love it. Thanks so much again for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. We'll see you in the next one.

Sam.