Ryan Levesque - 10x Your List Growth Using Quiz Funnels

A quiz funnel is a process where imagine someone lands on your website and you begin by asking them a series of questions to better understand a little bit more about their situation. And based on their answers, you're funneling them into one of several different directions. You might have different products that you sell, you might have one product that you sell, but you want to position it different ways. You might want to put people in front of the right testimonial or case study based on their unique situation. Or in your case, you might want to recommend the right podcast episode based on what someone needs help with right here, right now. So instead of selling in a one size fits all way, you're putting people into buckets. You're putting people into buckets. And it's an incredibly effective strategy for a number of reasons.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Flowchart with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey.

Hello.

What's up? Not much.

Just hanging out. What are you up to?

You were so energetic right before you hit record.

Hello?

Yeah, I was trying to make it sound like you just called me up on the phone and we're just like, hey, what's up? How's it going?

You should probably prep me on this. All right, let me get the phone in my hand dial map.

If I prep you on it, it's less awkward.

Yeah, that's true. All right, I aimed for awkward.

If you haven't noticed that by now, you don't know me very well.

I know you very well. I'm just always surprised every time I feel like it's going to change, but I can't change you. Awkward. Your middle name. No, it's okay. It's your birthday coming up soon, though, so maybe that will change you. Probably.

Actually, my birthday was a month and a half ago.

See, I'm a jerk. I don't remember how long. Oh, all right. Well, maybe a quiz would have helped me out or something. I don't know. To decide your personality type and how to deal with you. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, maybe our boy Ryan will help us out.

Yeah.

This is a round two episode. We got Ryan Levesque back again. Last time we brought him on his. His book choose just came out. This time around. His book Ask just came out. No, I'm just kidding. Ask came out in 2015. But we're talking about building quizzes and building funnels. And building quiz funnels.

Yes. And all of the above. And also, yes, lots of things around quizzes. Yeah. So it really. Yeah, it's interesting so choose. If you haven't listened to that episode, it was done last year sometime we'll link it in the show notes, but go check it out later, like after this one. But that's a great one. If you're starting from scratch, like a business starting from scratch, or reinventing or anything like that, where you're trying to basically, you know, figure out, what's my offer, what am I doing, and all that. That's choose.

Yeah. And we went into Ryan's backstory and that sort of thing in that last episode. So we're not going to get into his story and things like that in this one.

Yeah, we just cut right to it. So this one. Yeah, Ryan is. He's actually doing. So right now we're still kind of locked, locked down, quarantine style. It could be different by the time this thing goes live. But he's. He's pretty much like. He's. He's taking the time. And I think it's very wise to do a ton of workshops and challenges and all these things that really help people in a big way to actually get into this stuff and start creating, you know, not just talking about it and theoretically think, oh, this is a great thing. Which, you know, you need that, but also you need to do the action side of things. So I think it's actually really cool because he's doing. He told us his schedule right before we recorded, and it's like, holy crap. Just like living in online world and just like helping so many people for like four weeks plus or something like that. So it's really cool. But this podcast will basically talk a lot about, you know, kind of the why and the big, big ideas and how. How everyone can use these quizzes to really ramp up what they're doing currently in their business, even if, you know, not doing so hot, which I know a lot of businesses are kind of reinventing, so this could be a perfect little thing to focus on here.

Yeah, no, I was. I was blown away by, like, what sort of results people are getting from quizzes. People adding. Well, one of his own. His own quizzes were adding 50,000 emails per day to his list. You know, a lot of businesses are lucky if they're putting 50,000 emails per year on their mailing list. He's doing it per day. He was telling us examples of customers that were doing quiz funnels and putting 100,000 leads per month on their list. So pretty cool stuff that got us pumped up about doing quizzes ourselves. So you might see some more of that Kind of lead gen style from us. But he's also doing a quiz funnel workshop and he's going to do it live and is coming out a few days after this episode is coming out. So this episode's coming out on June 11th. His quiz funnel workshop is coming out on June 15th. And if you want to go to his live quiz funnel workshop where he's actually going to work with you on exactly how to build out the quiz yourself, what questions to ask, you know, how to, how to angle your products and your offers and all of that kind of stuff, he's going to cover it all on his workshop on June 15th. And we got details about that over at hustleandflowchart.com quiz Q U I Z.

Yeah, like it hustleflowchart.com quiz yeah, that thing is. And I forget how long the workshop is, but it's basically super in depth. He's like whiteboarding all this stuff out. And so in this podcast he basically talks about, you know, why do you want to use a quiz, all the different benefits and crap, ton of case studies. And we talk about a little bit of like, our experience with quizzes which have gone well, but we've always like hack jobbed it, you know, using just like, you know, like, like I think Ryan said scotch tape in rubber bands. Like, that's pretty much how we've done it without a full blown strategy. So in this episode, he's going to walk you through the psychology and like the results that people have gotten, but also really how to structure, you know, like why a quiz can be this thing that really is a, you know, catches attention, but also what happens right after there and beyond. Because there's more to it than just the quiz. That's just the piece of the puzzle.

Cool. And two quick things. This episode is brought to you by ahrefs, our favorite SEO tool that we use ourselves and love a lot. We use it to keep an eye on where we're ranking for various keywords, where our podcast episodes are ranking. One of our favorite things to do is when we bring podcast guests on, we try to rank for their name. So we're going to try to rank for Ryan Levesque's name and see if we can get on the first page of Google for people searching Ryan Levesque. And we use Ahrefs to do that. And we use Ahrefs advice and their tools to do that kind of stuff. So if you're not using Ahrefs in your business, they've got a $7 seven day trial that you should check out. It's totally worth it. Over at a hrefs.

Com. That's good. That's good. And then also, we're taking notes on this episode, as always. And that's@hustleandflowchart.com comp stuff. C O M P. That's on flowchart.com comp. So all the notes from this quiz episode with Ryan are all going to be detailed there. And I think what's really cool with this episode is Ryan gave a lot of very specific copy points, like things to actually say within this whole quiz funnel kind of experience. And I thought that was actually something super cool because you can, like, pretty much copy and paste some of the things that he said and then just kind of remold it for your own space. So that kind of stuff will be in the notes. Go get them. What's that text number, Matt?

Yeah, you could text comp to 38470 as well. And you'll get the notes that way as well. So let's go chat with Ryan.

Ryan, welcome back, my friend. How you doing?

What's up, Joe?

What's up, Matt?

It's great to be back, guys. How's it going?

It's great. And we did the live stream on a few weeks back and it was like fresh in quarantine time. And you had a nice. Like you're seeing the Bob Ross fro.

It got crazy, man. I mean, people were making fun of me, and I hadn't had a fro like that since I was 18 years old. Like, it was back in high school. I let it grow out. I had clown hair. And I think a lot of my friends kind of didn't realize that. Oh, like this guy, Ryan, my friend, I know he's always had short hair. When it grows long, it looks like that. Like.

He'S one of those people. I'm in the same boat if I let it go, man. I'm not that ballsy, though.

Yeah. With me, when my hair grows long, it just looks like a goofy bowl haircut, but just it gets longer and longer and longer. Just imagine a bowl haircut that covers my eyes. That's what happens when my hair gets long.

The Beatles all over again.

That's funny.

It looks like cousin it from whatever that movie is.

Adam's family.

Adam's Family. That's what it is.

There you go. Well, yeah, Ryan, so since we last what? The last time you were on the show, we talked about choose your book at the time, the new. I mean, still the Newer of the two books that and Ask. And it's interesting timing. We're not going to be focusing on that one this time, but with the environment where we're at right now in the world, the economy, it's almost like a perfect restarting time for folks there. So anyone who hasn't listened to that episode, definitely go back in time and we'll link it, of course, in the show Notes to listen to the choose interview. Totally. It was super powerful. Totally.

Absolutely. Anybody who's at that place where you're looking to start a brand new business, start from scratch, and you're trying to figure out like, what your next move should be, like this new world that we're entering into, like, you know, it's an opportunity to reinvent yourself. And there's a lot of different options and choices both in terms of market and business and model and all these things. And choose is all about how to figure out the answers to those questions and choose the right path for you.

Definitely. Man. Yeah. And this time, so we're going to focus on kind of the other side, really where you started, right, with the Ask method and, and all that and really diving deep into kind of these personalized marketing strategies that you've put out to the world using quizzes and funnels and segmentation and all that fun stuff. So I guess give us the highlight of what, what you're focused on now, because what the book went out was that back in 2016, 2017, my first book, Ask.

Ask, yeah, Ask was 2015. Oh, wow.

Okay.

Got it. Yeah, I know. It's like in Internet years, that's like a hundred years ago.

It really is. Man. Yeah.

Yeah. So 2015 written in, out in 2015. And really my first book, Ask.

Is really focused around.

How to figure out exactly what your market wants, how to figure out what any market wants to buy before you create or sell anything. And one of the kind of offshoots of that process is to use a very specific type of marketing approach to sell effectively in any market. And that's to use what we call a quiz funnel. Now, a quiz funnel, at a high level, everyone wants. What is a quiz funnel exactly? A quiz funnel is a process where imagine someone lands on your website and you begin by asking them a series of questions to better understand a little bit more about their situation. And based on their answers, you're funneling them into one of several different directions. You might have different products that you sell, you might have one product that you sell, but you want to position it different ways. You Might want to put people in front of the right testimonial or case study based on their unique situation. Or in your case, you might want to recommend the right podcast episode based on what someone needs help with right here, right now. So instead of selling in a one size fits all way, you're putting people into buckets. You're putting people into buckets. And it's an incredibly effective strategy for a number of reasons. And I've. In my life, I've built businesses in 23 different markets using this strategy, using the power of quiz funnels. Markets ranging from golf instruction and tennis instruction to satellite television and business funding.

Orchid care.

All sorts of different sort of random niche markets. And now we have literally thousands of clients and customers and users of our software platform who have had tremendous success and not just success in the past. People always want to know like, is this working right here, right now? This strategy is working more effectively even with everything going on in the world. You know, in this post COVID 19 environment, are experiencing a ton of of success right now. We'll talk a little bit why a little bit more about why that success. So we're going to talk about quiz funnels. We're going to talk about this strategy to grow your business, get more leads, get more clients and grow your business using a really cool and effective strategy that we call quiz funnels.

I love it, man. Yeah, and we've done some, I would say they're pretty ghetto quiz funnels, you know, like hacking things together and probably using just horrible tools that really, like are stressing us out. Probably not working as best as they possibly could. But we've seen the power of doing that even with our kind of ghetto rig. You know, like, hey, here's a little quiz funnel and kind of a custom page after the fact that, you know, the whole thing. Matt and I are all about the journey, like the journey of a prospect and giving them a custom experience and segmenting like crazy. We talk about it all the time. So I think that's why it's going to be fascinating. And maybe we just kick it off with from your perspective, why quizzes should be something that every business owner listening should implement in some way in their business.

Yeah, it's a great question and you've probably experienced some of this in your own business, but there are a few key reasons. Reason number one, quiz funnels help you generate incredibly cheap leads. Oftentimes when someone is not using a quiz, they're using a traditional funnel. They might be paying, I don't know, two, dollars fifty cents to get people to a webinar, for example, they can oftentimes cut their cost per lead down to one third to one tenth the cost. So if you're paying $2.50 to acquire a lead through a traditional funnel, you can get your quiz leads down to 50 cents or less per lead. So incredibly cheap leads.

I'm curious, why is that? Why would they be cheaper than just like sending them straight to an opt in form or something?

Yeah, well, we'll talk a little bit about that. I think, you know, one of the reasons why is because quizzes are so compelling. And I'll get into that in a little bit more detail later, like sort of the psychology behind it and why it's so effective. Cool.

Get ahead of myself.

No, it's a great, it's a great question and I wanted, I definitely want to talk about it. In addition to getting incredibly cheap leads, just the volume is crazy. Like the amount of volume is crazy. For example, well, people that move to a quiz funnel, they're able to grow their list, their audience by 10 to 80 x 80 times the size of their list because the volume of leads that this strategy can produce. So I'll give you a few examples. There's a guy who's a consultant and he added a quiz funnel on his website and he went from generating about 800 leads a month on his website to over 10,000 leads on overnight. So he went from 800 leads a month to 10,000 leads a month overnight. He was driving for Lyft part time, had his side hustle and was launching his business. And in less than a year is now making $100,000 a month on the back of his quiz funnel.

That's a hell of a case study.

You can just grow like crazy. Yeah, Another case study just talking about the volume that's available in the education market. So childhood education market. We have a user, one of our clients who built a quiz and this is insane, when I share these numbers with you, built a list of over a million email subscribers in 10 days.

10 days.

Not bad.

Not bad.

Yeah.

Yeah. So the volume is incredible. And I've, you know, I've done, at my peak, I was doing about 52,000 email subscribers per day across all the quizzes that I had going on. So most people would love to have an email list of 50,000 names. I was doing 50,000 email subscribers every day. And this is across multiple markets. So it wasn't just one homogenous list, but 52,000 per day. So you can do the math you can see, it's pretty impressive volume that you can generate in your niche. So high volume number three. Third reason, incredibly valuable data.

The world that we're living in here today, he or she who has the most data wins. And quiz funnels are an incredibly powerful way to get data on your audience beyond just name and email. So you're able to learn, for example, in the golf market, if you have a quiz you can learn, is someone left handed, right handed, how far do they hit the ball off the tee? What is their biggest challenge when it comes to hitting the ball, do they tend to slice it, do they tend to hook it? What is their, what equipment do they use? You know, all sorts of information that you can learn about someone along the way above and beyond just name and email. And, and now that becomes part of your database. So instead of having a CRM with just names and emails, you have all these data points along the way. Now, what's the value of that type of data? Well, I'll give you a couple examples in the golf space, specifically, I partnered with a company, we built multiple quiz funnels in the golf space, and we built a list of over a million golfers using this strategy while that business was sold to NBC Golf. So NBC, the network, for nine figures. This is a nine figure exit. Same thing in the business funding space. So we built a quiz in the business funding space that we sold for $169 million to PayPal on the back of this strategy. And the reason for that, why are NBC and PayPal willing to spend so much money? Because you have access to all this data.

The data is valuable, man. Segmentation.

Yeah, for sure. So reason number three, incredibly valuable data number four, incredibly high sales conversion. So you guys alluded to it just a moment ago when you're talking about how it allows you to customize your messaging. Well, when you customize your copy and your offer based on a person's quiz answers, you can often double or triple your sales conversion rate. So if you're getting a 1% conversion rate on your sales letter by customizing the content on that page based on a person's answers that they've given you in the quiz, you can double or triple that conversion rate. So you ask yourself, okay, so if I can 10x the number of leads coming into my world and I can 3x the conversion rate of those leads, are you saying that I can 30x my business on the back of this?

The answer is yes.

The answer is yes. And I see it routinely in market after market so that's the fourth reason. But the fifth one is actually the one that I, I think is most important, and that's this. You not only better sell when you do this, but you actually better serve your audience. So it's not just better sell, it's also better served. Of course you win. You know, you can 10x the number of leads, triple your sales conversion rates, but more importantly, your customer wins. You're able to deliver a better experience. Imagine if I come to your website and I go to hustleandflowchart.com and I've never heard of your show before, and I just picked the most recent episode that you guys have put out for your show. It may be great for me, but it may not be the best episode for me versus if I go to your website and it's, hey, we've done over 100 episodes. And to figure out which one's right for you, tell us a little bit more about your situation, where you're at right now, and we'll recommend the best three episodes for you to get started with on the Hustle and Flow podcast right here, right now.

Ryan, this is such a great idea.

You guys gotta do this, by the way. This is like, you know, huge opportunity, right? And then it's like, crap. So now I come in and I'm like, oh my gosh, those three episodes were gold, dude. They were gold. And now you've got me hooked. Now I want to listen to everything versus a great episode. That just wasn't the right thing for me right now. So. And by the way, just as a, as an aside, that's something you could put in every single episode you ever do, by the way, like the show. Want to get a recommendation on the best three episodes to listen, Take our quiz to find out now go to, you know, whatever, right? So great lil idea. So all these reasons. Cheap leads, high volume, valuable data, high conversion rate, and most importantly, better sell but better serve your audience at the same time. So these are, you know, the reasons why quizzes are so compelling and so effective.

I love it. And that's, that's all growing this list. I mean, not only is it a large list over time, but you're having the most quality. You have all this data for segmentation and all these different, you know, things that you can do on the back end. But I love how the fact, like we talked about the customer journey, it's, you're actually kind of directing or they're self directing them. So everything should increase and, and really your, your, your relationship to that list should be really good as well. So the engagement rates I'm sure are probably pretty dang high as well.

Oh, for sure.

Email opens and whatnot.

Oh, for sure. It helps everything that you, that you do along the way. Absolutely. Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

When we've done some quizzes in the past, I mean, the coolest thing about the quizzes is when somebody goes through that entire process of answering all these questions. Let's say there's, there's like seven questions and they get the answer and then you ask for the email before you actually give them the answer. There's like this sort of. I know you're going to get into the psychology, but I'm just like, from my own experience, what we've noticed is just like if they answer all those questions, they're going to opt in because there's like this open loop now of like I need to get that answer and so I can definitely see how it can, can grow the list. So. Well, let's, let's talk about some of the sort of niches and some of the kind of businesses that you've seen this work in. You know, obviously a lot of our listeners are. Well, all of our listeners are like digital based businesses. You know, we've got a marketing based business. We've got listeners that are like contractors. We have painting contractors that listen, we have. One of our listeners is actually someone who runs a sheep farm and sells wool products online. So I'm curious. Yeah, like it runs the gamut. So let's talk about some of the niches you've seen this work in and maybe some case studies.

Yeah, sure. So, you know, I mentioned a few of the markets that I've personally had experience in. So everything from orchid care, memory improvement, dog training, business consulting. I talked about two examples. The PayPal acquisition that I was involved in, the NBC acquisition I was involved in. But let's talk about just kind of regular businesses, like regular people, guys like, you know, men and women like, like us in all sorts of different markets. So a couple that come to mind. So Alexis Fedor, she's in a market that is traditionally really difficult to sell to. She sells to artists. So artists are her market. She created a quiz called the art marketing type. So she helps artists grow their following, like reach more patrons. And so she created a quiz called what's your art marketing type? And on the back of that she sells a digital course.

That she sells six figures a year. Just on the back of this quiz, another example. So Morgan McDonald, she's in the book space. So she has a small publishing business where she helps people publish their book. And so she created a quiz called your publishing path. What publishing path is right for you? She sells a high ticket book deal on the back of it. So we're talking 17,000 to $25,000 offer right on the back of this. So Alexis's case, it's a multi hundred dollar course. In Morgan's case, it's a tens of thousands of dollars engagement. Michael Hyatt, who's a good friend of mine, I was literally just chatting with him on Facebook earlier today about something completely unrelated. So Michael is best selling author, he's got multiple books that he's sold. New York Times, best selling author, he's in the leadership space and he has a quiz called the platform assessment, which is.

Where is your platform at right now in terms of the growth of your business? Take this quiz to find out. On the back of that he uses a webinar, so he takes people through a quiz into a webinar to sell his program, which is a multi hundred dollar program. I mentioned the golf space. We'll talk tennis space. So Will Hamilton, he's in the tennis space and he has a quiz called doubles killers. What's your. If you play tennis before you know that, if you play with a play doubles and you're playing with a new partner all the time, well it's kind of like a little bit weird and jarring to like. Good luck partner. Yeah, good luck, exactly. So he has a doubles killer quiz. Like what's the biggest mistake you're making when you step on the court with a new partner? Take this quiz to find out now. And he drives people into a playbook. So it's an actual like a tennis playbook that he sells. On the back of that, Deirdre Fay, she's a therapist. So talking about like local business owners, right? So people have a local practice, she's a local therapist, she has a quiz, what's your relationship type? Take this quiz to find out now. And she gets new clients on the back of this relationship type quiz. Neil Gorman, he's a speaker and so he is a public speaker. He has a quiz and he uses that quiz to get speaking gigs, speaking opportunities. And I think he, it took him four years to make to get to 19,000 leads in his business. And in less than a month he added 10,000 new leads to his business. Had his first six figure month, you know, so you know, in all sorts of different markets. I have a dentist, a local dentist who has A, you know, is Invisalign, right, for you. Take this quiz to find out now. So talking about, like, local businesses that are going in. So this can be used no matter what it is that you sell, you just kind of. Kind of, you know, I'll give you these examples just for anyone listening to this right now, to kind of get your. Your brain sort of turning a little bit, starting to think about possible ideas and ideas and excitements and. And, you know, Matt, you asked a question earlier, like, why do they work so well? Like, why do quizzes work so well in market after market? Well, it comes down to a couple things. The first thing that it comes down to is what we call the power of self discovery. Now, it does not matter whether you're a local dentist, if you help artists, if you're in the tennis market, the thing that people care more about than anything else is themselves. Right? Tell me more about me. And we're all hardwired that way, right?

That's right.

We're all hardwired that way. And so when you offer someone the promise to learn more about themselves, find out what's your relationship type. Do you know that there are kind of five major types? Do you know what yours is? Take this question.

Kind of like the assessments and all that stuff. But yeah, it's definitely this.

And you think about, like, these assessments, like, you know, I'm curious, you guys, have you guys ever taken any of these assessments out there, like Myers Briggs.

Or just all of them? Yeah.

Colby or Disc or Wealth Dynamics or Sally Hogs.

They're kind of addicting, man.

Yeah. You know, whenever I ask people in a room, I'm like, I'll, you know, be in a room of people. And everyone's kind of is like, all right, guys, let's be honest. Like, let's be willing to raise our hand. Raise your hand if you've taken at least one of these assessments before. And bridge over, raise your hand. I was like, keep your hands up if you've taken at least 2, 3, 4. I said, look around. This is why these things work so well, because everybody wants to know. Now, the secret is not just making a fun and entertaining quiz. The secret is using a quiz to ask a very specific set of questions that lead people down a sales path that creates desire for what it is that you sell. That's kind of the nuance. That's the art behind it. But. So that's the first reason the power of self discovery. The other reason why they work so well is when you tap into this Power of curiosity and desire of I want to know more about myself. It allows you to diagnose and prescribe. So it allows you. A quiz is a great way to diagnose a person's situation and prescribe the right solution for them. So when you offer someone this universal promise of, listen, guys, when it comes down to whatever, when it comes to losing weight, when it comes to playing tennis, when it comes to marketing your business, there's no one size fits all answer. But if you take a moment to tell me a little bit about your situation, I can recommend the best path for you. Simply click the button below, answer a few simple questions, and I'll see you in just another minute. On the other side. Like that, what I just gave there, that bit of copy is basically universal no matter what it is that you sell. You could sell backpacks. When it comes to backpacks, there's no one size fits all answer. Tell me a little bit about your, your needs and how you're going to be using the bag, and I can recommend the best bag for you. It's a consultative approach to selling, but instead of it doing it one on one, you're doing it to hundreds or perhaps thousands of people every single day. Automated.

That's really cool. That's powerful. Yeah, I was going to say it's like a consult of clothes or consultative clothes. And it's just asking the right questions. And it's like, yeah, I mean, this is like, any good salesperson would probably do this, but it's an feel like a sales experience. You're just, you're, you're exp. You know, you're, you're identifying certain things that are already in their mind, sparking curiosity, but it's leading them further down a path. And it's not like some assessment that you see on Facebook that's like, hey, what's your personality type? Or what character are you in? You know, Game of Thrones?

It's like, yeah, yeah, this is time wasting quizzes. But what we can do is we can take. It's like anything, right? It's like, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Why are those quizzes so effective? What can we learn from them? What can we take? And what we can take from them is that there are a few types of quizzes that perform better than anything else. And so anybody who's tried quizzes, anybody who's thought about using quizzes, who hasn't gotten the results that I shared earlier, generating millions of leads in just a matter of days, Millions of dollars in sales. You know, going from driving lyft to making $100,000 a month. Like, you know, reason why. Yeah, it's a good one, right? When more people aren't getting results like that comes down to three big mistakes. There's three big mistakes and we start touching on one of them. The first big mistake is using the wrong hook, the wrong big idea to get people excited about taking your quiz. And I've been doing this for over a decade now, and I've tested virtually everything under the sun as it relates to quizzes in all sorts of different markets. And what we've been able to find is that when it comes to coming up with the right hook, the good news is, is there are three main options to choose from. There are three quiz hooks that perform better than anything else. The first one is the type quiz. And that's the one that we started talking about with the, you know, what Game of Thrones character are you? Or what Disney character are you? Because people want to know what type they are, right? So they want to know, what's your enneagram? Are you a three? Are you two? What's my type? What bucket do you fall into?

So it's a curiosity based thing.

Yeah, it's very much curiosity based thing. And the reason for that is we as human beings are hardwired to categorize things. Now we know that as human beings, we're complex organisms. And on the one hand, yes, we're all different. We're all special snowflakes, we're all unique. But on the other hand, our brain wants to categorize things. If you think about when we were kids, and you can think about when, when, if you've ever had, you know, young kids that you've taught anything to, young kid will learn, all right? Everything. To a young kid, every furry creature around the house to a young kid is a, is a cat. You know, cat, cat, cat. And then at some point they learn the difference between cat and dog. So now they're two buckets, right? You've got cats and you've got dogs. And then they learn the difference that they're different types of dogs, right? You've got poodles and you've got pugs and everything in between. And so you learn how to kind of categorize things. And so our brains are hardwired that way. Same thing with color. Color exists on an infinite spectrum, but we in our human brains want to put colors into different buckets. This is blue, this is red, this is orange, this is green. This is yellow green. And we come up with labels for these things. So we have a natural desire to want to ascribe a label to anything that feels uncertain. So we want to be able to label what, what, what type am I? I want to know, like, what's my, you know, where am I on the, on this, you know, spectrum of colors. So type is the first one. The second major hook that performs really well is what we call a killer hook. Now, a killer is where you're identifying the mistake that someone is making in a specific area of their life. An example of this is the doubles killer in the tennis market, as I mentioned a moment ago. So if you've ever struggled to play with a new partner, could you be making one of these five doubles killers? Which doubles killer are you making right now? Take the quiz to find out.

Now, so basically you're asking a question that is probably already in their minds, but you're just identifying it very clearly. And then they're like, crap, I got to know this. Okay, click.

Yeah, and the reason why this works so well is because in our human brain, fear of loss is infinitely more powerful than the promise of gain. So going back to the kid example again, I've got young kiddos. So this always comes to mind is if you've got, if you're a parent and if you've got kids, imagine one of two headlines. Headline number one, how to raise a well adjusted contributing member of society. Click here to find out now versus the five biggest mistakes that parents make that screw their kids up for life. Which one of these are you making? That one here to find out. We want to know. Right? Like the fear of loss is infinitely more powerful than the promise of gain. So we tap into that. So in the golf market, there are 10 major swing killers. 10 major mistakes people make in their golf swing. What's your number one swing killer? Find out now, progress killers in the guitar market. When it comes to playing the guitar, there are a few key mistakes that people make in their technique. Which mistake are you making right now? So this killer angle is incredibly powerful. That's the second one. The third one is a score based angle. Now the reason why the score based angle works so well, take this quiz to find out my score. Like for example, the real age test, which by the way, if you're not familiar with that, that's a test, that's a quiz that over 40 million people have taken. So talking about list size, imagine having a list of 40 million people. It's a quiz that identifies what your body's real age is relative to your body's, what it says on your birth certificate. So your birth certificate might say that you're 35 years old or 45 years old or 55 years old, but do you have the body of a 45 year old or the body of a 52 year old? Take this quiz to find out now. So it's an incredibly compelling quiz and the reason why it works so well is because we are constantly asking ourselves several questions. Question number one, how am I doing relative to how I should be doing at this point in my life?

Like checking in with yourself?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Question number two, how do I stack up against my peers?

Where should I be right now? What's my score? So whether you're evaluating someone's business, how solid is how sellable is your business, which is John Warrilow's quiz. How, what's your saleability score? Take this quiz to find out how saleable, how sellable your business is. What's your level of authority? Take this authority score quiz to find out your level of authority. So these, this score based angle is incredibly powerful to help people identify the gap between where they want to be and where they are right now. And there's a lot of psychology behind why that's so powerful. It goes back to basically when we were kids and we were given grades and you walk home with that report card and you can remember the moments you had showing your report card to your parents when you were growing up. You have it drilled in our head that we're only as good as that score that's on that piece of paper.

We'Re all primed from. So early.

Yeah, so early. And when I, when I speak live in front of audiences, I'll, I'll, I'll say, raise your hand. So where am I? Where my straight A students, where are my straight A students? And they get a few people who raise their hand in the front of the room kind of sheepishly. I say, where are my C students at? And everyone's like, oh, that's me right here. And I say, what's crazy about that is we carry these labels into adulthood, these identities into adulthood that just exist forever. So a score basically. So, so the big mistake that people make, mistake number one is the wrong hook type killer score. Those are the only three. Mistake number two.

Wrong offer. Now, on the back of a quiz, you can sell virtually anything. You can sell high ticket, low ticket. It can be coaching course, you can do a launch, it could be a discovery call if You're a client. It can be a physical product. If you sell a physical product, it can literally be anything. But the path you need to follow is very specific. You need to follow something called Band Aid Cure. Now, Band Aid Cure looks like this. As marketers, as sellers of our stuff, we have a tendency to want to spend far more time talking about our products and services and not enough time meeting people where they're at. I'm going to use another kid metaphor because, again, I've got young kids. Band Aid Cure looks like this. If you can think back or think to imagine a small child that you're watching, whether it's your son, grandson, granddaughter, niece, nephew, whatever, you're in charge. You're watching the kiddo kiddos outside riding their bike, riding around in circles, falls off the bike, skins their knee. They run inside and they say, mommy, I need a band aid. But every kid says, right? Like, right, every kid says that. Now, you know as the adult that the band aid is not going to make the knee feel any better, right? You and I know that. But if we were to try to push our solution on that kid without meeting them where they're at and first putting the minion Band aid on their knee, then they're not going to listen. So what do you need to do? You need to say, okay, sweetheart, let's do this. Let's put the band aid on. Let's put it on right here. There you go. Okay. Let's wipe the tears away. Okay, honey, now we got the band aid on to make it really feel better. To solve the real problem, we're going to have to put some ice on it. Or I need you to take this baby Tylenol, or let's put a little bit of Neosporin and some ointment to make it feel better. Is that going to be okay? So we have to meet people where they're at. Now, here's the connection between that story, that metaphor, and a quiz. When you use a quiz, you give people a free outcome, the results of their quiz, which is the band aid, and then use that to segue people into your paid offer, which is the cure Band Aid. Cure Band Aid you give them for free. But to solve the real problem, the underlying issue that's really going to make it go away, you have to invest in the paid program. So you have to follow that structure with your offer to get results. So that's mistake number two. Now, mistake number three is an easy one. We were talking about this a little bit earlier in this interview. Is the Wrong technology.

Yeah, there's a lot of different technology out there that is going to skew you in the wrong way.

I see people try to scotch tape and rubber band so many different solutions together to make it work. Now, every single one of the examples that we talked about.

Going from, you know, PayPal acquisition, NBC acquisition, a million leads in the childhood education market in 10 days, going from Lyft to making $100,000 a month in just a matter of less than two years. Every single one of those examples, plus every single one of the examples in our business, the one thing that they all have in common is they also use the same technology. That same technology is a technology called bukit. And this is a technology that's designed to build quiz funnels that are not just about getting clicks, not just about getting a bunch of people to fill out a stupid personality test. It's about getting people to answer these questions, customize your marketing path based on the answer to those questions, and convert those clicks into customers. And so that technology is so key to tying it all together and making it all work. So once you've got the right hook, once you've got the right offer and the right technology, what does it all look like? How does it all put together? Well, I know we're talking through this, it's a bit theoretical, but anybody who's interested, you can see an example of this in action. At the beginning of this interview, we talked about my book Choose. Now. We launched this book in a super competitive landscape. Publishing a book is one of the most competitive industries that you could be in. If you think about the number of books available on Amazon already, the number of new books that are published every single month, it is more competitive than it ever has been in history. So how do you stand out? How do you differentiate yourself? Well, the way you can differentiate yourself is to use a quiz. And that's exactly what we did. So we created a quiz. You can check it out, you can go to choosequiz.com and basically we created a quiz around what type of business should you start? Take this quiz to find out Now. Now we ask a number of questions. There are 16 possible outcomes, by the way. So 16 possible recommendations that we give people. And based on the answers to that quiz, we talk about how our book choose. How my book choose can help you with the business that is probably the best fit for you. Now, to put some numbers in perspective on the back of this quiz, in less than a year, we did over 200,000 email subscribers, 36,000 paying customers in less than 12 months, just on the back of that quiz. So imagine growing your email list by over 200,000 people, generating 36,000 paying customers who have gone on to buy other products and services, some of whom who have spent six figures with us in our business in less than 12 months. That's the power of this.

On the back of a quiz and book and then whatever offers after that point.

That's exactly, yeah.

I love it, man. Quick question is. So on the offer side of things, do you have any suggestions on. And then I'd like to actually say, how the heck can people actually try it out for themselves? Because you could see the choosequiz.com, that's a great way to at least see something in action. But in terms of the offer, so after the band aid, there's so many options. How does someone choose what that should be for them? Or do you have any good guiding, you know, points for them to decide.

What to sell or what price point or how to sell it?

Yeah, yeah. Depending on. Obviously it depends on any kind of niche and all that stuff. But have you seen some kind of. All right, well, if you're doing in this, this kind of work, this kind of thing could be the best way to start as a.

So it depends. So we want to start when, when we're talking about constructing a quiz, we want to start with two things. One, you can imagine you're standing on one side of a canyon and your prospect is standing on the other side of the canyon. And we need to create a bridge that's going to connect their side to your side. So first start with what is it that you're trying to sell, right? Are you trying to get people onto a discovery call so you can sell them your consulting services? Are you trying to get people to book an appointment, to walk into your local dental practice? Are you trying to get people to buy your online course or your book? So it all starts there. So we start with that. Now.

A universal framework that can be really helpful to think about is like this. After someone takes their. Takes your quiz, you want to land on what we call an outcome page. Now, the outcome page is where you explain their results. This is where you deliver the band aid. Now, this is typically in video form. So you're saying, based on everything that you've told me, here are your results. Explain those results. Now, what you're doing is you're talking about them, you're explaining what the results mean. You're kind of echoing back what their situation is entails and from There you want to create a segue to what it is you want them to do next. And so, for example, if that might be getting on the phone with you, it might be now, now that you know a little bit about yourself, the real question is, well, what do you do about it? Well, that's what I do all day, every day. And as I mentioned, this is just the band aid. I wouldn't use that exact language. But as I mentioned to you, this is. This is the band aid. If you really want to solve this problem, here's what you need to do instead. In the golf market, for example, we've identified that you suffer from a swing killer number seven, which is coming over the top. Here's what that means. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you really want to hit with consistency and distance and power, you need to solve the underlying issue, which is what we call impact angles. If you'd like to learn more about how that works and what that means exactly, click the button below and I'll see you on the other side. So that could be a segue to a webinar. It could be a segue to a video sales letter. If you're trying to get people on the phone with you, it could be. If you really want to solve it, here's what you need to do. Click on the button below and I'll explain the next step on the other side. And that next step could be, well, we've got to sit down and meet in person, or we've got to get on the phone or whatever it may be. So what you're doing there is you're using it as a setup for the thing that you want them to actually do.

That makes sense.

The reason why this quiz works so well is because now they're not looking at your offer in a generic way. Also, you've kind of primed them. You've warmed them up. Matt, you brought it up a moment earlier in the. In the interview, using the power of micro commitments, where they're so committed at this point, right? Because they've. They've taken the first step and the second step and the third step and the fourth step. They're so far down the path now where they would have categorically been categorically opposed to getting on the phone with you straight away. If you just send them from, like a Facebook ad to book a call with me. Now they're warmed up to this idea, you've built a little bit of a rapport. You've been able to demonstrate your expertise about your subject matter. And they've said, you know what, maybe we'll get on the phone with this guy. And so that's one of the ways you can make it work.

I love it. Well, I know, I know. We've got a time constraint here, and we got to get you out of here. So one last question, and this is probably a good segue into the workshop that you're doing.

Yeah.

How do, how do people come up with the actual, like, questions that they're asking? Is that the kind of stuff you're going to be going over on this, this workshop that you got coming up?

Well, listen, it's such a great question, and it's, it's the exact right question to be asking. And you're absolutely right. So the cool thing is this. I've never done what I'm about to say before, so I've literally never done this before. But there's so much interest right now in this topic that I've decided that I'm going to be hosting a free live online quiz funnel workshop where I'm going to be going through the process, teaching how to actually create your quiz, come up with your quiz and launch your quiz, and I'm going to do it all live, and it's totally free. And I know that there's a limitation when we're doing an interview like this. It's like, it's all theoretical. Well, I'm going to go through live examples. We're going to go through the process of whiteboarding it out and the whole thing. And for anyone who's listening to this right now, if you'd love to be part of it, I'd love to invite you to do that. And I think we've set up a special link that people can go to get this. What's, what's that link?

It's hustleandflowchart.com quiz Q, U, I, Z.

That's an easy one to remember. Hustleandflowchart.com quiz and by the way, this is a live thing that I'm going to be teaching. So go there. If you're. If you just go to that link and you'll get to a page, it's going to have all the dates and details of when this is happening. If you get there early, you'll be able to pre register. If you're catching this midstream, you'll be able to jump right in. So you definitely want to do this now. Hustleandflowchart.com quiz we're going to go into all the details, lots of examples. It's going to be really awesome and a lot of fun, and I'd love to have you part of it.

That's going to be great, man. Thank you, Ryan. And yeah, definitely it's going to be a lot more practical in getting into the stuff and actually start getting very customized to whatever it is that you're trying to build a quiz around, because every single business should be doing this. And we're going to finally optimize our quizzes because there's a lot of gaps and you've already pointed out some on this show here.

So much opportunity for you guys.

It's awesome.

I'm super pumped.

Yeah, man.

Yeah. We're not growing our list by 100,000 people a month right now, and we need to be.

So crank it up. Opportunity.

All right, flowchart.com quiz thanks again, Ryan. Thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you dug it. I know Joe and I dug it. I actually kicked Joe out of the room. He's not here right now. Because I wanted to tell you about a tool that I really, really dig. We use it in our business. We recommend it all the time. It's called Easy Webinar, and it's a tool that lets you do live webinars, automated webinars, hybrid webinars, and, you know, pretty much any other kind of webinar, if there are other kinds of webinars. But anyway, this tool is kind of like your all in one, do it all tool for anything webinar related. It's Easy Webinar. It's put out by a dude named Casey Zman. He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's a killer episode. He's a really smart dude, but his software is amazing. It does everything. It's, you know, the title tells you exactly what it does. It's an easy webinar platform. And we use this in our business to run automated webinars all the time. We don't do a lot of live webinars these days. We like to do the kind of automated webinars where somebody can register and then it, you know, they can either watch it like 15 minutes later or they can watch it the next day, but it's just kind of always running. And it's a system that helps us make autopilot sales off of our webinars. Super cool tool. If you haven't tried it yet, you know, it's, it's, it's an amazing tool. And Casey is actually hooking you up. He said for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart, I can't believe he's doing this, but he said for listeners of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, he's giving 25% off of the membership to use Easy webinar. It's already super, super inexpensive for what it does and all the cool features it has, but he's hooking you up with 25% off. Because you're a listener of Hustle and flowchart. Go to easywebinar.com hustle that's where you can get that 25% off discount. That's easywebinar.com hustole. It's a awesome tool. You're gonna dig it, so just go grab it. Check it out. Easywebinar.com hustle See ya. No, not see ya. You'll hear me in the next show. I don't know. I don't know how to close these things. Go get Easy Webinar talk to do.

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