Sam Bell - How To Drive More Sales Using Facebook And Webinars

The commodity now is attention. This is really where true marketing comes in, in my opinion. Right. You have to be able to position yourself in a marketplace or at least pique someone's interest and curiosity enough to be able to. To get them off of, you know, Facebook or off of YouTube and bring them into your world and then hold that attention. And I think that's really where, you know, like, real marketers separate themselves, because anybody can set up a Facebook ad. Anybo can buy clickfunnels.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear.

Welcome back to the new and improved Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

We are new and improved.

We are new and improved. We'll talk about that at the end of the episode.

I feel so fresh and clean. Clean. Yeah, yeah, squeaky clean. But yes, wait till the end of the episode. I mean, listen to the episode. But we have some added bonus material for you there.

Yeah, we're going to start tacking some stuff off in the end. So make sure you hang around to the end after the interview with Sam because there's some more good stuff there. But today, I already said it. We're talking to Sam Bell of SambellMarketing.com and PPC Boutique. He is an ads and webinar ninja. Like this episode, he broke down the basically steps to make a webinar that is going to perform for you. And then to top that off, he broke down the Facebook ad strategy. That this really blew us away was when we started getting into Facebook stuff, how he's using Facebook ads to load up these webinars and convert people. It's a pretty cohesive process of, here's how you run Facebook ads into a webinar and make lots and lots of money there.

He. He did not hold back. And when I say that, I really mean it on all, all fronts, especially the ads. Like, literally, you can. If you have never run Facebook ads and you haven't, like, you've been confused or whatever, like, just listen to this. Get the notes. Definitely get the notes because they will be written out for you. Sue will make sure it's. It's amazing. Get the notes. They're free. Just two weeks from this thing going live, go to hustleandflowchart.com comp but those notes, I mean, you will be able to set up a killer campaign running to whatever. It doesn't need to be webinars. But it's amazing. Sam's just amazing. So Sam Bell marketing.com is Sam's thing. Um, sponsor Ahrefs as always. Not as always, but really for the end of the year.

Our favorite sponsor.

They are our favorite, uh, hey, one of.

One of two of our favorite spots.

Yeah, we're gonna get ourselves in trouble. But if you haven't used Ahrefs, we talked a lot about it. Um, it's, you know, it doesn't tie in with Facebook ads necessarily, but Google side of stuff, it does. But I would urge you to go check out Ahrefs. So it's a H r e f s dot com. There is a free trial. It's $7 for seven days. But they actually have a ton of training that's totally free publicly, like video training. There's like, courses and stuff. And so if you're feeling like I don't really know about this SEO stuff or whatever, this. This href stuff and try, just go check out some tutorials and they'll give you ideas on how to implement it.

Yeah, the Ahrefs blog and the Ahrefs YouTube channel are insane. Like, they're. They're. They're two pieces of content. Two sites where I going through their content constantly. I. I subscribe to their YouTube channel. I subscribe to their blog, and like, they just put out amazing content again. They've got a $7, seven day trial over a h r e f s dot com.

All right, all right, let's do this.

Let's go talk to Sam Bell.

All right, we're rolling. Sam, how you doing, my friend?

I'm doing well.

Awesome, dude. Yeah. Now we're. It's been, what, a few years? We were talking about, like, last time we saw each other, we were hanging out. Your mastermind, you and Joe Lavery, San Diego during tnc. And that was a good one, dude. Get. Get it killer, girl.

That was actually. Yeah, that was probably one of the. One of the more fun traffic and conversion summits and. And then going. We were talking about the party, the prohibition party that my man Damian put on.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. Definitely good times. And a lot of great information, too.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, Fernando Cruz was there from. From Agora and like, oh, dude, he was pretty insane with the types of stuff he was talking. I mean, everybody there was.

Taylor Welch, I believe is there, and we're chatting with him later today.

Chris here.

Yeah, yeah, Chris.

Actually, I don't think Taylor was there. I think his partner Chris was there. But we were talking to Taylor later today.

Well, yeah, Sam, I mean, we're so you do a whole bunch of stuff in the webinar, I know, ad space, you know, Facebook ads and just all that stuff. And we're kind of telling you, I guess, just a little like the curtain, opening the curtain a little bit to everybody listening. We're like, yeah, let's, let's get a little bit more tactical. Like that's kind of like this. We've been pulling our audience and you've been cool enough to kind of roll with us there on the fly right before this.

Hey man, let's do it, dude.

Yeah, no, I think it's going to be good. So tell us a little bit about the story. I know you got your start in a different way and it was kind of through everything crashing down, it seemed like at the time.

Yeah. So originally, before I got into the agency digital marketing world, my background is actually it, so I started off as a network Administrator for the U.S. army Corps of Engineers. And, and if you know anything about the IT industry, especially within the government, you have a lot of downtime. So I'll always be online, you know, looking for different ways to make money. So, you know, I, I learned about like affiliate marketing and you know, about, you know, SEO and all this stuff like way back in, like in like 2002, 2004. So I've always had an interest in it, but I actually wound up transitioning into real estate. Around 2005. I actually started buying and selling houses in Atlanta, Georgia and that was really like my first foray to walking away from my job and like just being all in full time entrepreneur. And then Fast forward around 2007, a lot of the people who were buying from me locally, they started to dry up. So I'm like, man, I need to, I need to figure out how I can, you know, market and sell my houses. Now mind you, I've. I've always still been in and around the Internet marketing space, you know. So, you know, YouTube was new, you know, Facebook was new. I was like, man, let me, you know, let me see if I can actually start uploading my properties to YouTube and start doing some SEO optimization and rank these videos and see if I can start attracting buyers from out of state. So that's what I started doing. I started recording all of my wholesale properties, uploading them, optimizing them, and I started getting lead flow. And I wound up going to a seminar in November of 2007 and I was just sharing with some guys, you know, what I was doing and, and the guy that put on the event, Chris Dago actually him and Chris Chico, he was like, hey, man, why don't you, you know, put together a presentation and, you know, you know, come share about what, you know, what you're doing. I like, all right, cool. So I put together a presentation, you know, crushed it. And then it was another guy there that was in attendance. He's like, man, you know what? We need to turn this into a product. So because they owned at the time a social network specifically for real estate investors, he like, man, we can teach other real estate investors how to do this, because nobody's doing this stuff. I like, all right, bet. So I created the content, they sold it, and we wind up doing like $2 million in sales in like, 18 months with this, you know, digital product. So that's how I transitioned into the information marketing space specifically for real estate investors. And then fast forward a few years. You know, I had that success. I started doing some real estate coaching. We built. Wound up building a software platform specifically for real estate investors called REO Goldminer. Because obviously, the crash happened in 2008, and we were. And I was focused pretty much exclusively on driving traffic to grow that business using the Google display network. And right around 2009, if you remember, there was a huge Google slab, right?

Yep.

Banning, like, anyone. So anyone that was just running, like, straight landing pages, opt in pages, like, you couldn't do that stuff anymore. And a lot of the real estate info guys at the time, like, that was the only traffic source. So when they started getting their account shut down, they know that I was actively still running. So I started doing some consulting work, and I realized, like, man, like, this is cool. Like, you know, I'm helping get people either get their accounts back or showing them how to actually run ads compliantly, and they just pay me a fee to do it. I'm like, you know, I like this. So I started the agency. So kind of kind of happened by accident. And. And that's where we started at. We started with Google Display. This was even before Facebook, you know, had a ads platform. Really? And that's, you know, kind of how we got to the agency world.

That's cool. Yeah, I got booted off Google in 2009. Actually took me, like, three years to get back on Google too.

Crazy.

Are you.

Are you still doing a lot of Google stuff or is it primarily Facebook ads now?

So over the years, it's transitioned to where we're primarily on Facebook. However, we still run Google as well, primarily retargeting, because it really helps support what we're doing on the front end on Facebook. But we've also started transitioning to doing a lot more YouTube now simply because YouTube is a monster in terms of scale. And you know, surprisingly you actually have a lot more leeway. And in terms of what you can say and do with YouTube videos versus, you know, Facebook, it's kind of like they, they flip flop. It's like all of the compliance department from Google left and went to Facebook.

More money over there, whatever that man.

So, so yeah, but we are really heavy on, from a, from a cold traffic standpoint, we're probably still 80% Facebook and then 20% Google.

Sweet. Well, there's really kind of two things that I think we want to talk about on this episode. It's traffic and webinars. Right. Probably primarily Facebook traffic. Maybe we'll touch on a little more YouTube stuff too. And webinars. Do you think it's better to start with the webinar or driving the traffic? Probably the webinar. Right. Because that's what you're going to drive the traffic into.

100%, man. When it comes to traffic and specifically if you're going to be buying and spending money, you know, to, you know, to convert high ticket clients because that's really like what we specialize in in the webinar space. So most of the clients that we work with, they sell, you know, high ticket products. Right. So high ticket being anywhere from like a thousand to $3,000 or they're running a application funnel where we're still running to a webinar but as opposed to a direct sale, the call to action is for application. But 100%, the focus should always be the offer because ultimately, you know, it doesn't matter, you know, what your traffic source is and even if you don't do traffic, right. In terms of like targeting and messaging, if you have a, a good offer and the offer converts like you can make the traffic work. And I, I think a lot of times, you know, especially when people who are, you know, kind of coming into the space, they don't really spend the time on an offer. And especially as an agency, I've, I've worked with so many people and they want to make all of these changes as, as opposed to the offer. I'm like, all of that stuff is nice and pretty, but until your offer is dialed in and it's, and it's converting at, at a certain conversion rate to where you can at least break even on the front end, then all that other stuff is irrelevant.

Yeah.

So, you know, I I tell people, focus on your offer. Your first objective with your webinar specifically if you're selling a digital product is get to break even. Because you can, if you can at least acquire customers at zero cost, then you can definitely get into profitability, you know, with it. Once you properly optimize and you, you know, find different ways to increase your overall customer value. Yeah, so it's, it's definitely all about the offer. With the high ticket funnels, when you're selling more, so coaching and consulting, you have a little bit more leeway in that you can afford to spend more to acquire customers. Because you know, most of my clients specifically who are selling those type of programs are charging a minimum of five grand upwards to $30,000. So you know, versus if you're selling a digital product for only $1,000, know you can only spend $1,000 to get to break even. Well, you know, technically I could spend $2,000 and still be in profitability on a $5,000 offer to acquire that, that customer. So yeah, just depends on.

Yeah, when you're trying to break even like that and get like say a high ticket, you know, say a $3,000 offer to convert, do you have like any kind of thing or an offer before that or is it all just going straight to that webinar?

Straight to webinar. This, this, this just straight, straight the webinar.

Right.

Um, so you know, we generally just run ads. So obviously we have a sequence of how we put together the ad structure. Right. So we have, you know, prospecting, you know, which is really mainly top of funnel, cold traffic and then you know, middle funnel. So middle funnel would be, you know, people who have, you know, maybe register but they didn't attend. So you know, obviously we'll have messaging to drop people back to like a replay and then like bottom of funnel campaigns focusing primarily on people who attended but you know, they didn't purchase, you know, and driving those individuals back. But yeah, I mean, you know, we, we focus primarily on, on getting all that top of funnel traffic to convert. Right. So there's certain key metrics that we like to focus on. Right. So first thing we do is really determine on what type of budget do we need to allocate to get enough statistically valid data to say that hey, this webinar works or this webinar doesn't work. You know, so I would say minimum of at least, you know, 200 people on a webinar initially to actually, and when I say 200 people, I mean registrations, but to Actually watch the webinar.

Yeah.

To get some initial feedback as to, you know, how well this webinar performs or not. So if I'm running a, a live webinar initially. So because if it's a new offer and it's not proven, you may have to do a few iteration, iterations of it to really get it dialed in. So, so when we run that, we'll say, okay, well, we're at a $3,000 price point. We need to reverse engineer and see, okay, how many people do we need to get on here and how much money do we need to spend initially for. To get some, to get that, to get that initial amount of data. Right. And depending on what type of funds you have available, that's going to, that's going to determine how fast you can go. Right. So if we want to do this within a week. Because anytime we're doing live webinars, we don't, we don't run ads no further than five days out, you know, any, anything further than that. Like your show up rate is going to just really, really bomb. So the maximum is around five days out. Right. So if my goal is to put at least 200 people on, I, I know in most niches we should be able to get registrations around $10. So that's kind of like a baseline threshold and then, you know, a minimum show up rate of around 25%.

Right.

So in that particular scenario, you know, to get a live attendee is going to cost me around $40. So in that particular scenario, I'm going to spend $8,000 to get 200 live attendees to that webinar. Now, because it's a $3,000 price point, you know, in order for me to get, to break even, I really only need to convert at 3%.

Minimum. Not even really 3%. I really need to convert it. Let's see. One, two. Because if we're doing two, if we have 200 people, then, you know, 1% would be two sales at 6,000. So 2% would get us in technically. That would get us into profitability.

Yeah.

So, so if we're at a 2% conversion rate, then I know, okay, we, we got some legs with this thing, we can go and, you know, and 2% seems low, but for a $3,000 offer to cold traffic, like that's actually.

Pretty decent and breaking even. Right? Like that's your first goal.

That's the first goal. Right. And then from there it's just, you know, getting feedback, seeing what objections come up on, you know, on the webinar. So that way we can overcome those objections in the webinar seeing you know, like the offer stack, like you know, are people like taking up the, taking up the offer. How can we improve upon that? And over a few iterations you can jump, you can get that 2% to 4%. Right. So and then from there then now we can take it. And now we can take it. Evergreen because we know to cold traffic after running to cold traffic, we're having a consistent conversion rate of 4% on the $3,000 on a $3,000 offer. So I already know for, you know, for every, you know, hundred people that I put on the webinar, if it cost me, you know, $4,000, I'm going to generate 12,000. So you know, I'll do a three row ask on that particular webinar, you know, and that's really good for cold traffic.

Yeah. And 2% off of 200 people, that's, I mean it's only four people. So you really only need, so out of 200 people showing up, you really only need four people to buy. Which doesn't sound like that big of a number when you say it like that. I think, I think like where I'm sort of hung up is like, is on the pricing because you know this sort of common wisdom is like more of an ascension model, right? You got like the trip wire to get them in the thing like $10 and then send them up to like a $99 product. And then maybe you're going for like the higher ticket stuff, but it' sounds like you're getting them on a webinar and just going right for it.

So my philosophy is that I rather get the low hanging fruit and my approach is more of a decent model as opposed to an ascension model. I don't think as long as you have a offer that can really add value is transformational. And people, the value proposition is like a no brainer to where of course I'll spend $3,000 because it's going to yield this result, I'll be able to make $30,000 or whatever the case may be if the value proposition is there. The number is never the issue. The problem is, is most people have a, have a challenge conveying the value proposition to justify the price point. So you know, they want to take people through this ascension process where they warm them up, they build relationships, they build rapport. And not to say that doesn't work because people built multi million dollar, billion dollar companies with that model. I think that model absolutely Works, it's just a much longer process and it's going to cost you a lot more money to really dial that in. Right. Because in order to do $12,000 off of a, a $97 product, you got to sell a hell of a lot more customers as opposed to, you know, four customers. Right. So if I'm doing a good job in terms of my creative and messaging and in my targeting in my ads, you know, I'd rather have four of the right customers than, you know, 200, you know, low ticket customers that may never buy a $3,000 thing. So that's just my personal philosophy and approach. You know, there's a million ways to skin a cat, especially in the online, you know, marketing space. But I found that most effective, especially when you're spending money on traffic. If you spend money on ads, the more money you can spend to acquire a customer, the better I can outspin you. If me and you are going after the same, you know, the same type of people, you know, some of the same interest, the same target, you know, I'm going to blow, I'm a, I'm a beat you in, in the, I'm going to beat you in the auction every day because I could spend way more money to acquire that customer than you can.

So yeah, and you just said it's, it's always an auction. So that's the thing. If you're starting with a decention model, you got the low hanging fruit, the beauty is you're doing retargeting. So it's not like if they buy, don't buy there, you don't have something else probably lined up for em or another variation 100.

Because you know, think about it in the, in the initial model that we discussed, right, where we're spending $8,000 to get 200 people on, to get 100 people on, you know, you got to realize we're spending an average of $10 per registration. So that's 8,000 people that we have on our database. So any of those people, once they cycle through that webinar process, if they don't buy, if I have other low ticket products, I can easily now just put those people into an automated sequence and then just downsell them or I can drive them to a call, you know, so you, you can increase the value of those leads over time, you know, so if you have other offers, other big ticket offers or low ticket offers, or even a continuity play, there's definitely ways to monetize that list. But that, but doing it that way allows you to get to break even much faster as well as grow your, your list, you know, way faster than you would if you were doing more of a low ticket model.

Yeah. I like it because it's. Most people that do approach webinars are a lot of them that we've chatted with. It's like, okay, stick a tripwire type offer in the front to, you know, clear your costs there. And then everything else is just kind of gravy. But I just like this. Just figure out your numbers. Yeah. And just go for it. It's like, gotta have the balls for the budget, whatever your budget ends up being, you know, but like, once you get past that, that's kind of seems like the biggest barrier once you get the conversion rate down.

Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, look, you gotta commit.

Yeah.

I mean, are you in this game to, you know, just make, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars or you want to make, you know, a few million dollars?

Right.

So that's.

Right.

Well, I was going to say when it, when it comes to the webinars, is, is there like sort of a breakdown or like a process that you would walk somebody through? Like, I've got a product, I want to, I want to start doing webinars. Is there like some sort of like, what would be my first step of even, like starting to plan a webinar?

Sure. So I think one of the things is that you have to really get clear on what it is that you're offering. Right. So you're off again going back to the offer. Right. And then who is going to be the ideal target customer, like, for that offer, like, who is going to actually spend money? Right. So, you know, it really kind of starts with like the research, so having an idea of what it is that you want to bring to the marketplace. And one of the things that, you know, one of the ways I like to look at is like, okay, what can, what can I bring into the marketplace? You know, that's a blue ocean, like a big, you know, offer, a big general offer. But it has some sort, some sort of unique selling proposition or some sort of unique mechanism that clearly differentiates me from everyone else and being able to develop that. So even if there's people who have maybe similar products, you can only get this one thing if you come here, Right. So that's automatically going to give me a better position.

Right.

In, in the marketplace. And then thinking about the, then the value proposition, like, how can I make this, you know, irresistible? Right. So it's like seeing what's already out there in a marketplace and then just making. Making the offer to where it's like, so ridiculous that there's so much value, not only. And I don't just mean value in terms of, like, the amount of training. You know, a lot of times people equate value with the amount of training, but more so the outcome and desire. Right. Because ultimately, like, this product needs to solve a problem, and it needs to help people get a very specific outcome. So if I can show people that this product will help them get a very specific outcome, and that outcome is 10 times the value of what the investment is, and then I have social proof to back that up, and then I have case studies and testimonials to support those claims.

I mean, that's risk reversal, all that.

Yeah, all of that stuff. Yeah.

And then when it comes to webinars as well, I feel like there's a little sort of contention around this point, because talking to different people around webinars, they have different philosophies on the sort of percentage of content versus pitch versus telling your story and that sort of stuff. Do you have sort of like a ratio that you like to have as far as, like, you know, introducing who you are, edifying yourself, putting content in front of them and pitching? Because I've seen webinars where you got on, they tell you who they are, and then the rest of the thing is just a pitch. And then I've been on some where the entire thing is like peer training, and then there's a very soft pitch at the end, you know. So, like, what's sort of your ratio and flow for the webinars?

Well, there's not an exact. There's not an exact formula, per se. I mean, I know that people have templatized and there's frameworks and things like that. My philosophy is that in terms of webinar length, the webinar needs to be as long as necessary to convey all the information for people to make a buying decision. Okay. So whether if that's, you know, an hour or whether it's three hours in terms of content, I do believe that if someone leaves that webinar, whether they chose to buy or not, they should have received an immense amount of value. Right? So. So as long as you're educating people and giving them insight, because here's the thing, the product is what is going to show them, you know exactly how to do the thing, right? So you can teach all about the what, right? What it is, what. What components they need. And then this product is just going to help expedite that process and help you get that desired outcome. But you can take the what of everything that I talked to you, and you can go out there and, you know, you can figure it out. It's probably going to take you a lot longer, cost you a lot more money, a lot of more pain and suffering. But if you want to avoid all of that, then, you know, you can do this. But absolutely, people should feel like, man, like, that was a great webinar, actually. I learned some stuff. I got some value, and if I don't have the money, when I do get the money, I. I'm gonna go buy that thing.

Yeah, it's always like that whole thing. It's like, oh, man, I would want. I'd want to share this with my business partner, with, with whatever colleague out there. Even if they don't buy. It's like, that's kind of that impression when you walk away.

Yeah. I feel like the best webinars I've been on are the ones that, like, they provide you with, like, new insights. Like, you're sitting on the, on the webinar going, ooh, like, I didn't know that existed. Or like, new, aha. Moments that you didn't think about. But by the end of the webinar, you're like, that's really interesting. I learned a lot of new stuff. I don't actually know how to take action on this stuff yet, but, like, now I know this exists. Right? So it's like, you get these insights about. You're now aware that this potential exists, and this product is the answer to tap into that potential.

100%. 100%. And, you know, and, you know, that's. That, that's actually a good point because, I mean, you know, if you guys, and I know you guys probably read Breakthrough Advertising with Eugene Schwartz is talking about the different levels of customer sophistication, right? So, like, you know, you know, level one, like, they're not even aware. Right. Level two, like, they're, they're, they're aware, but they're not necessarily solution aware. Right. So, like, those level two and level three people are ideal, right? Because they know that, you know, this opportunity exists. But I'm not really aware of a solution of how to get, like, this result. Right. So, you know, if you, if, if you're, if you craft your webinar and you're speaking to those level two, level three people, you're opening. You are opening them up with insights. And I like to, I like to frame it as understanding concepts Right. Because a lot of times there's new information that people may not be familiar with or there's like technical stuff that's kind of involved. And I always tell people, look, I'm going to share some things that may not be familiar, but don't even worry about that. Focus on the concepts. Because if you can conceptualize the outcome, even if you don't know all of the how and the what, it'll click. Right? So that's like how I like to position stuff.

I like that man. Because yeah, a lot of people just get right into the weeds of things. You know, in a webinar they get technical, they get into strategies and all that stuff. But I feel like they're, they're not understanding the target market, they're not speaking to them as a whole. You know, and thinking of the 80% of folks are probably not the tacticians, but if you give them context and kind of allow them to see what all the pieces are, they can start to kind of connect them and probably give you a better chance of converting them into a sale, I'd imagine.

100%.

Yeah. Talk about, I'm curious about the. So I know you're big into automated webinars. So what happens like once you dial in that live thing? What, what does it look like to transition that into an auto webinar?

Well, the beautiful part is once you get the, the live one dialed in, it's not that much different because you already, by that time you've already identified the audiences that work, you know exactly what, what creatives perform the best. You already have the landing page dialed in. So the only really difference is, is that you're just transitioning, you know, kind of that experience from like a lot, you know, from a live experience to more of an automated experience and you still have the ability to do it as a like live. So for example, some of the clients that we work with, we run you know, like live automated webinars, right. So it's a scheduled date, scheduled time, there's specific, there's a specific email sequence that goes out that when people register they get some, some emails dripped on them and then you know, the follow up emails and SMS text reminders leading up to the webinar and then there's a post webinar sequence with a close down shut down and then it's done. Right. So you literally can take that same format that a lot of people run on the live webinars and transition it to an automated structure. Right. So that way you don't have to be live presenting. So the transition is really not, not that difficult. I mean there's obviously some technical, you know, probably, yeah, just some technical implications in terms of the, the setup and infrastructure, making sure you have the right, the right platforms and making sure all the, you know, automations are, are there and set up. But you know, once that stuff is in place, I mean it just, it just runs and it's just tweaking from there. Right. So you're contin, you're still testing like on the front end, like different ads, different creatives, you know, constantly dialing that in. And then obviously you still, you know, watching and making sure that your numbers, you know, are either increasing or that they're not dropping off. Right. That you're maintaining, you know, those conversion rates. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's not that big of a transition once you really get that, that, that live out in.

Yeah. This question might actually sort of transition into like Facebook ads and the targeting a little bit. But one of the, our biggest struggles when we've run webinars, we've actually kind of stopped running webinars for the past several months because we've really struggled with actually getting people to show up. We actually don't struggle to get people to register. We're getting people to, after they register, actually show up for the webinar. And it almost feels like what's been happening is everybody kind of knows the webinar games now. Everybody knows what you're doing. Everybody knows, okay, they're going to run this webinar. It's going to be live for this window. But then the very next day they're going to put out a replay and I'm going to be able to watch the replay. You know, like people kind of know the flow of webinars and so I think that really sort of affects our show up rates on actually getting people to show up to the webinar. So you know, do you have any advice or, you know, any tips on actually getting the people to show up after they registered?

Yeah, absolutely. And also I want to say that there's, there's a caveat to that because you're 100% correct, you know, as it relates to the Internet marketing, digital marketing space. Yeah, like we're super sophisticated. Right. So we've seen it all. But outside of the, outside of this space, that's, that's not the case at all.

Right.

And, and you still get, you still get those very high show up rates because I, we run webinars in Some niches. Right. Like right now, like I have a client in the nursing space, she consistently gets 30% plus you know, show up rates, you know, on, on her, you know, live webinars.

Right.

And even in the real estate space, like we have consistently get like, you know, 30, 35% show up rates or higher to the live webinars. I think in terms of best practices, you definitely got to have a strong reminder sequence. So you know, generally outside of the initial welcome email, there should be an email reminder that goes out 24 hours before the webinar, another email reminder that goes out seven hours before a three, a three hour reminder email and then one hour and then 15 minutes and, and then on that 15 minutes there's also a corresponding SMS text message that also goes out to push people to join the webinar as well. Just following that sequence, you should be able to consistently get a minimum of a 25% or more show up rate even in the digital marketing space.

That's amazing. And I think the follow up is where people just drop the ball. Even sophisticated marketers. I see that just like what? I don't know, it's like, yeah, everyone's kind of focused on registrants. Registrants load the front end. But it's like, come on, you spend.

All this money, get the registrants, like, why wouldn't you.

Send out the marketing pieces to make sure that those people show up? Oh, and then a reminder ad too.

So I was going to ask about that. Yeah, like retargeting.

So all people who register, you know, obviously they're pixel and they're put into that audience. Hey, reminder, webinars coming up, webinars coming up. And, and then run that, run that ad to the entire audience, you know, all placements. So I don't care where they go. They got webinars coming up everywhere.

YouTube, yeah, Google, all that stuff.

Now do you always do a replay or do you ever, do you ever say, hey, there's going to be no replay on this one and really like push the scarcity of getting on live.

Yeah, so I don't, I don't think we've done that. Most of the stuff that we have set up with my clients is pretty, pretty automated there and there is a replay that goes out. But then, you know, there's also like a shutdown time too, right. Where it's like, okay, this is coming down, this is coming down. So there's still that element of scarcity, but it's not, it's not an element to where it's not a replay. Because, you know, again, in the marketing space, I think that's more relevant. And even. And even in the marketing space, when they say there's not going to re. There's not going to be a replay, there's not. There's an encore, it's just another word.

That's it.

So come on.

Yeah. Sophisticated marketers aren't going to leave money on the table. Like, you know, that obvious.

Yeah. I think that's probably been our biggest issue with trying to run webinars, is we're trying to be marketers, marketing to marketers, and that's a struggle.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. I. In. In we've. I've heard people say this before, but even. Even. Especially now more so than ever, like marketers, especially in the. In the digital marketing space, if you've been in this game for, you know, three to five years, like, you have, you're more knowledgeable than probably 97 of the people that are out there. You know, most people have probably heard of Zoom. Most people, you know, may have maybe heard of, you know, WordPress, but most people still don't know what a funnel is. Most people still don't know where retargeting is. Like, they. They. The ma. The masses don't get it. But because we're kind of like in this bubble and we talk to each other, our assumption is that everyone is sophisticated and. And. And that's just not the case now. If you're marketing to marketers 100%, but there's a whole other set of people who need this information, especially because now a lot of people were forced to come into the online marketing game that are great salespeople, they have great offers, they just been doing everything offline, but now they've been forced to conduct business. And, and honestly, like, everything that has taken place in 2020, you know, with COVID it actually really helped our business because a lot of people were forced to come off of the road. They were forced to now begin to transition to deliver their events, you know, virtually. So they're like, okay, I need to figure out how to put on events. I need to figure out how to get leads. So you have all of these. All of these people that, you know, so it's kind of been like a gold rush almost, you know, for. For people transitioning. So it's. It's actually been awesome, you know, and I think it's also increased the level of awareness that people realize, like, I need to have an online customer acquisition Process. Even if I have a brick and mortar business, I need to be able to find, have, be able to find my customers online to increase that foot traffic or even just that order and delivery traffic.

Yeah, no, I mean, you make a good point too in that we kind of forget how much we know compared to the rest of the business world. I remember I was talking to somebody a few weeks ago who has a brick and mortar business and I sort of explained the concept of an autoresponder of like, hey, you know, when you collect an email, you can just make automatic emails go out to that person after you've collected that email. And it was like a mind blowing experience for them that, that even exists out there.

That's wild. Yeah, I mean, but it's, it's perfect. Like you said, there's, it's, it's a acquisition funnel that every business can have. And I feel like attention spans are probably, I mean, I don't know, I'm curious actually. Do you see any new trends now that people are at home or they're working at home, Kids are at home with webinars?

Well, yeah, I mean, obviously for, for time, especially when all stuff first happened like, you know, usage was, was up, costs were down. Like it was just like2015 for like.

A month or two, right?

Yeah, for like a month or two. Right. Because all the advertisers pull, pull their ads. So it was like, man, let's just go, you know, let's just go crazy with it. But yeah, I, I, I do agree that, you know, the, the commodity now is, is attention. Right. So you have to figure out, and this is where, this is really where true marketing comes in, in my opinion. Right. You have to be able to position yourself in a marketplace or at least pique someone's interest and curious curiosity enough to be able to, to get them off of, you know, Facebook or off of YouTube and bring them into your world and then hold that attention. And I think that's when the skill set of really understanding copy, the psychology of how people operate and think really how to.

How to communicate through written word, through video, in, in such a way that compels people at a visceral level to want to know more. Right? To really be able to bypass, you know, their consciousness, to talk to the subconsciousness, to be able to really like trigger them to want to pull them in. Right. And no, and I think that that's really where, you know, like real marketers separate themselves because anybody can set up a Facebook ad, anybody can buy, click, funnels but you know, but to understand, you know the, the market, to understand how to effectively communicate and do that, like that's just something that just comes with experience at time. And then when you lay, you know the technical expertise over that and really understand how to leverage the technology in terms of you know, segmentation, audiences following up, you know, multi channel marketing, you know that really makes you a force to be reckoned with. And, and I think that you know again like the people who do have those skill sets really, you know they undervalue. I've even undervalued that, you know and, and you know and that's changed obviously in terms of like my pricing but you know, especially now. But man, I think you know developing those skills as a marketer is, is super critical because the technology is going to continue to evolve, the platforms are going to continue to evolve, but was not evolving anywhere near that speed is the human psyche. So I think it makes more sense to really delve deep into human psychology, learn neuro linguistic programming, really dig into the psychology of copywriting and understand what triggers and compels people and moves people and then being able to effectively communicate that then the only thing I have to do is just put the message in front of them with the traffic.

Yeah. Just use the tools that are available at the time. But that doesn't change. You mentioned Eugene Schwartz and Breakthrough Advertising. That's what over 100 year old book or so or maybe not.

So is it that old?

Maybe it's not that old, but it's older.

Yeah.

And what are some other resources that you'd recommend for people to learn like NLP and all the Influence. I mean obviously influence. The book is a great one.

What other things do you kind of reference or recommend others?

So there's a lot of great books out there on influence and persuasion. You know like you said influence Cialdini But I'll tell you because that's just one of the things that I, I have a genuine just interest in and just learning from my for myself. But I'll go through my list. So I'm actually reading one now by John Bandler. John Bandler is actually the, the creator of NLP is called Manipulation. I know that sounds bad.

Manipulation is a NLP guide to emotional intelligence, Body language secrets and stoicism. It's a really good one.

That's cool. That's the other thing like body language and stuff. It's so yeah, I mean that's probably webinars could obviously if you have a live element to it that would Be a good thing to study as well. If you have video ON that is 100.

And pre suasion is a really good one, too.

Yep. As well.

Yeah. Pre Suasion.

And I literally have a whole. A whole bunch of books. There's one by Richard Avant called NLP Mastery. That's. That's actually a pretty good one.

I think I have that one. I don't think I've read it yet.

I love this. Yeah, go ahead.

Oh, I'm just. I got a whole list. Psycho Cybernetics.

That's amazing.

One Maxwell Maltz, right?

I believe so. Yeah.

There's actually an audio version with Dan Kennedy on audible. And Dan. And Dan Kennedy reads Maxwell Malt's book. But then Dan Kennedy goes and adds his own sort of additional feedback on top as he's reading through the chapters.

I got to get that one.

Yeah.

Pitch Anything by Oren Clough. That's. That's actually a solid book too.

Yeah, that's a solid one. Have you read.

He's got to split the difference.

Oh, Chris Voss.

Chris Voss.

Yeah. You know what? I have not. And I've heard. I heard about it, and I just need to get that one.

Check it out. Yeah, it's not nlp, but it's definitely Persuasion. It's insane. But.

But this one here is a super, super good book.

Oh, yeah, dude, that's from. Yeah. Avado Albuquerque. From Gora. Yeah.

Yes. Sixteen word cells that are like. It's a light read. I think it gives, like, all the basic print principles. So, like, just if you're just starting out and you're not, like, you know, you don't have. I mean, those are every. All the research we gave are great, but, like, if you want to, like, implement something right away, man. 60 word sales letter.

That's right.

Yeah. That book is actually probably one of the books I've recommended the most to other people who want to get into copywriting. I'm like, start with this one, and if you like that, I'll give you some more books to go deeper down the rabbit hole.

We've used it multiple times after we got that book for other random sales pieces all over the place, not just webinars.

We didn't talk a lot about ads, but let's get into it. Yeah, let's do it. So I don't know where to start. Obviously, you want to connect. I mean, we're talking about messaging, nlp, persuasion, all that. So I would assume the messaging from the, you know, the. The core offer, the webinar itself is going to translate to ads 100%.

And that's actually our, our process. So when we, so when we're working with clients, you know, one of the first things that we ask them outside of like their avatar and like all that stuff, like we get into that. But I tell them, give me your webinar. Because what both myself and also our in house copywriter does is we actually watch the webinar and we take notes from the webinar and we take like all the bullet points, all of the, you know, the pain points, all the different objections and everything. So we literally extract all of the copy from the webinars because we also do, we also build out like the full automated webinar funnels. So that means we're doing the landing pages, we're writing the headlines, we're coming up with the bullets in addition to writing the ads, right. And we prefer like long form copy, especially on Facebook. So, so we extract all of that information from the ads. And I, you know, I have a framework, you know, that we, that we follow for how we actually write and structure the ads themselves. But you know, Facebook has evolved to the point to where the algorithm is extremely, extremely smart, smarter than any of us. And, and I, and I think that especially like some of the people has been around for a while, you know, we, we tend to still want to have like that control because like, oh, I'm not gonna, you know, give that to Facebook. But that's not the, you don't have, you don't have to work that hard anymore. Yeah, like, like it, you really don't. Even if you're targeting is not like 100 on like, that's okay, right? If the copy is somewhat decent, like Facebook can figure out who those people are who are going to interact. So, so I'll just, I'll walk you through like our basic structure, like how we actually set up campaigns. And I'm talking specifically to Facebook. So obviously before we even launch the campaign, I want to say this because I think it's one of the most common things that I see people do. And I cringe when I go back and I look at data and how they set up their instructor, their tracking, right. Because I'm a data person. So your Facebook Pixel, put your main master Facebook Pixel on every single page in your funnel. First and foremost, that should go without saying, but put it there because I mean, checkout pages, anywhere traffic is going to flow to Pixel should be there.

It's funny because Joe and I, whenever we see a website, we have the Facebook Pixel Helper, Chrome Extension. Right. Whenever we see a website that doesn't have a pixel, we're like, these guys don't know what they're doing with marketing.

What is wrong with you?

Yeah, right, Carry on.

So that, and then, and the same thing. Put, put, put on, put the, put on your AdWords, AdWords or Google tag Manager or Analytics, one of them. Because you can create, you know, everything off all of it. But, but those two main things. So first and foremost, but, and then have a event for every step in your funnel. The caveat is do not use the new events manager tool and also do not create events that are URL based. And the reason that I say that is because if your funnel changes or if you create another page, then you cannot optimize for that custom event anymore because it's tied specifically to, to that URL. So use code base events. So that way doesn't matter what URL you use, it doesn't matter if you're split, testing and switching anything out. As long as you take that little piece of code, you can put it on any single page. And it just like I have people have come like, oh yeah, well we want to switch all this stuff over and we're going to optimize. And I'm like, yeah, but you got like 20,000 conversions on this URL and we can no longer optimize for that.

That, yeah, it's like you've already started it with that. So that's it.

Yeah, right, that's it. So you know, so don't lock yourself in use. So that. So that's my rant on that. So in terms of campaign structure, so when we launch a campaign, generally if a client comes to us, they would generally have some data. So we'll start there. So generally they'll have a customer list, email list. Obviously we upload, upload, upload those. If they have customer lists, not only do we export like the customers, but we also export all of the sales values. Right. So that we can create a value based lookalike audience. Right? Because you know, you can actually upload like what, how much that customer spent. Right. So Facebook will actually create a lookalike not just off of that, that information like for like name and email, but also off of what amount of money they spent. Right. So you have a higher quality lookalike audience. Right. And then also if obviously the page. So we'll create audience off of people who've engaged with any posts or ads on their page for the past 365 days. We'll create a lookalike audience off of that and then we'll also create it off of their IG as well. So generally customer lists, email lists, page ig. So those are like the, the four like lookalike audiences that we'll start with. And then we'll also build a code interest based audience that will stack, right? So based on who their target demographic is, we'll create an interest based audience. So we'll have at minimum of, you know, four to five different audiences that we'll start with. Okay. Now depending on how much budget they have allocated, you know, generally we'll start with like a 500 a day campaign. If they have a lower budget, you can do it with a lower budget. But because we primarily run CBO campaign campaign budget optimization when we launch our campaigns, you know, you want to have a decent sized budget to give Facebook enough to, to actually optimize with it. Right? So we'll have one campaign cbo, we'll put, we'll have one audience per ad set. Okay. So at the asset level, we'll have each of those audiences broken up into their own assets. So we have five audiences and we'll have five ad sets. And then at the ad level we'll do dynamic creative. We'll have a minimum of two post text, okay. With two headlines and then we'll have at least five creative. Right? So generally two images, three videos or three videos, two images, any combination of both. Right. So and that's the, and that's the campaign structure. Right? So you know, CBO conversion, optimize for registrations. Okay? One audience per asset, dynamic ads, five creative, two post text and then just turn it on and let Facebook do its thing. Now if we have good ctr, good click through rates and good engagement, but we're not getting registrations, then I know there's a disconnect with the landing page and I'm going to tweak the headline. Now if no one's just even clicking on the ads or we have, you know, click through rate below 2%, really, really 3% below that, then okay, there's a creative issue, then we may need to, to tweak that or there's an issue with one of the audiences, but out of those five audiences is generally not going to be an audience audience issue. It's usually a creative issue. Now if we're seeing we're getting good leads, we're getting good click throughs, people are registering, it's within KPI, we're not getting these sales, then obviously it's the webinar. Right. So, you know, and then we just optimize like based on that and then we scale up based on what type of conversion rate we see from the webinar. Sales.

Yeah, no, I love, I love the sort of ad structure because it actually does make it real simple because once you've set that up, I mean, that's going to go collect a ton of data. Right. Because campaign budget optimization is going to figure out the ideal ad set for you. And then under the ad set, the dynamic creative is going to figure out the ideal sort of combination of, of creative and text.

And.

It'S built in multivariate testing with.

AI, the best AI out there.

Right. So you're going to beat that? You're going to optimize better than that?

Yeah, you can, but it'll take a lot. You have to work a lot harder.

At it, spend a lot more money. Yeah.

So this is probably kind of getting into the weeds a little bit. But when you set up like a cold target audience, are you like bundling a whole bunch of things into that cold target audience or are you just doing like, I'm targeting this one thing, like I'm targeting people who like fishing or my targeting like people who like fishing, people who like hunting, people who, you know, buy fishing boat, you know, are you grouping a bunch together or. Yeah, you know.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're asking. So it used to be we would, I would do one interest per asset. When I'm testing cold audiences, I don't do that anymore. I actually prefer to do intersecting. Right. Because what I found is that if we have.

A stacked group of inches, but not, not all just in one, but actually intersect them. So I might have all of the, all of the marketing gurus, right. And then I'm going to say, but they must also have an interest in all of these different software platforms and then they must also have an interest in, you know, all of these tools. So I have at least three layers. What I found is that having a minimum of three layers, even though they're multiple interests, you know, that gives me a really good indicator.

A good indicator of where you know what that person's psychographic is.

Right.

And, and, and the, the probability that they would fit into.

Into a good audience that will convert. Because I mean, if you know who, and let's just keep it in the marketing world, you know, who Ryan Dice is, if you're familiar with, you know, Aweber and get response or Fusion Soft and, and you also like AdWords or are the FB ads manager. That's a probably good. That's a probably a good indicator of if you have those three, you know, interests that you're someone that will convert into a lead in the marketing space. Right.

It's kind of like, yeah, you got a people stack, you have a tool stack or resources or whatever, and then you have the interests, I guess, like specialty within that thing. Sure, yeah, that's perfect. And psychograph, I mean, that goes back to creating an avatar. Those are all the things that you'd really be digging into. We did this again recently. We went back to basics with this podcast. And so it's all top of mind, but it's like, but this is why we kind of did it, so we can run better ads to, like, this show and everything else we're doing. Yeah. Because we're so damn broad before. But it relates perfectly to this as well.

Yeah.

The one other area. So when I do our Facebook ads right now, I'm probably going to be getting out of it soon. We're probably going to bring in somebody to run it for us. But when I run the Facebook ads right now, the one thing that I don't let Facebook pick for me right now is the placements. Because whenever I let Facebook pick the placements, then I go and look at my data. They're giving me the cheapest placements, typically, but they're also, like the crappiest placements that don't convert. So I've always, like, kind of narrowed it down to, like, I just want it to show in the news feeds, Instagram, Facebook news feeds, and that's it. Like, what's your philosophy on placements?

So I used to have the same philosophy 100%, and here's why I don't anymore. I always choose all placements. And it's counterintuitive based on our past experiences, because we know how crappy some of the placements were previously. But one of the things that I did not take into consideration and I got this insight from speaking with a rep. Go figure, right? That's a whole nother story. But. But I got this from a rep. She's like, well, you know, you may want to choose all placements. And she said, because what we found is that when you choose all placements, sometimes people may need to see your ad in multiple locations before they convert. And I got thinking about. I'm like, man, you know what? That. That makes sense because. So even though I may not be getting conversions from the audience network or I may not be getting conversions from, you know, from. From the. You know, from IG or whatever the case may be. This person is seeing my ads across all these platforms. And we know someone may need to see your ad a minimum of five to seven times before they actually take an action on it. So by choosing all placements, I give Facebook the opportunity to show my ads in more places, which will actually reduce my overall CPM than if I just focus on one core placement. So, you know, when I thought about it like that, I'm like, man, that makes perfect sense. Because now if I'm just saying if I'm forcing Facebook to only show my ads in a newsfeed, well, that means that person has to see my ad in a newsfeed seven times. But I might be paying, you know, $20 CPM in a newsfeed where I'm paying, you know, $2 CPM in an audience network, $3 CPM and IG stories, you know, you know, $5 CPM in the marketplace. But I'm still getting those impressions.

Yeah, that's kind of like the idea of, well, it's like omnipresence kind of feel, and that's why you run Google Ads and display networks. So you're kind of showing up on blogs and all that stuff. I mean, we probably don't have time to get into that right now, but that's the concept is just be everywhere, even if your conversions are, I guess, happen on, like, the timeline. Yeah, yeah.

It's like that final click that makes the conversion may be on the Facebook news feed, but maybe they saw you seven times prior in other places before they finally clicked that on the newsfeed. Yeah.

So when you use the configuration that I walk through in conjunction with all placements, is that much more effective because you're really allowing the algorithm to optimize budget, optimize audiences, optimize creative, and optimize placements.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah. And especially if you're optimizing for conversion, Facebook is going to try to find, like, the placement that you get the most conversions from as well. So, yeah, that was good, man.

Thanks for lining that out. That was, like, the clearest map of. Of a campaign. I would say definitely updated, too. So I know we're going to swipe that. Yeah, I want it. Sam, talk about. Let's wrap it up. Talk about yourself, your agency. I know. We didn't even, like, bring it up. What was it? PPC Boutique, Right?

Yeah, PPC Boutique. I mean, that's, you know, that's the agency that, you know, that we started again, you know, we, we just specialize in working with high ticket automated webinar funnels. Like, you know, so most of our clients, like I said, they're digital product creators and owners or people who run, you know, high, you know, high ticket funnels to applications. And I'll probably say where our agency is like 50, 50 is like 50% digital product creators, 50% application based funnels. So we're really, really well versed in those areas, man. And it's awesome because like my personal philosophy with the agency and our agency, core value is exceptional client results, period, at any cost. But you know, I really look at myself as a conduit, right, because you have people who have, you know, these great products, these great services that have the ability to transform people's lives, right? I mean, because, you know, a lot of our clients either help people, you know, emotionally from a relationship standpoint or they show them how to transform their finances, earn more money. And you know, we're, we're kind of the, the bridge that connects those people that have a solution with those people who have the problem that needs, needs a solution for, right? So, so you know, like that's like how I approach the agency. And that's why like we are, we are selective of the people that we also work with too, right? Because we want to make sure that one, they do have like a really good product, really good service that adds value, but then also one that we can actually believe in and, and you know, and like genuinely want to help in the scale because like, if it's something I don't believe in or it's like, you know, this not. Is not really proven, it's probably not going to be a good fit. Because I want to make sure like if we're going to put the time and energy and we're going to be presenting something to people, then this needs to be something that can genuinely help people, you know, get, get a result. You know, so that's, that's our whole approach, man. But you know, we, we go all in and, and it goes beyond, you know, just, you know, the, the ads and the funnels, you know, because we, I also provide a lot of insights because I just, from the experience that I have from just being out here doing this, just knowing like, you know, how to scale, you know, just different elements of, you know, what you can incorporate into your offer to help increase your customer value. What does your back end look like? You know, so we're, we're not only an agency, but we're Also a consulting company as well, because ultimately our goal is not to just run ads and help you make more money, but to make sure that you have the business infrastructure to support it. Because even if we run a bunch of traffic, but you don't have all the business infrastructure and elements in place, then it's going to break down at some point.

Well, the fact that you're obviously a consultant, if you were breaking down everything just now on here level, I can't imagine what you're talking about with them. How do they find you and start a chat with you if they want.

Sam Bell Marketing Easiest way man, go to sam.com all right, we'll link it.

Up and everything else. Man, this has been a blast. And we have a ton of books. I won't ask you that again. Like I'm going to nerd out some NLP stuff now. Anything else Matt?

No, I think we covered a lot. I think the only question maybe so the one question that I wish I asked earlier but now it kind of feels out of place is what tools do you use as far as like your favorite webinar tool? Actually really, that's kind of the main thing. Your favorite webinar tool, maybe autoresponder or something.

I'll give you my quick tech stack. Right.

Okay, cool.

So.

For hosting, so we do everything on WordPress, WordPress Thrive Themes. I want full control.

We have everything on cloudflare and the reason for that is to Prevent against downtime DDoS attacks and also for caching so you get faster load time. So Cloudflare on either WPX hosting or WP engine, those are WordPress specific hosting providers. And again like I said, Thrive architect for the actual page builder. Most of our clients are running in terms of CRM either Infusionsoft, ActiveCampaign, EntReport, those are like the primary ones. There's a few people on ConvertKit but primarily infusion. Like I have a lot of clients on infusionsoft still in terms of the automated webinar platform, stealth is my platform of choice and what I recommend people to I I have a relationship with have had a relationship with stuff for over over 10 years. We've run ads for them and, and I know Jeff, he's a good buddy of mine and it's a solid platform and in terms of support, bar none like there it is. Yeah. Second from that would be every webinar. There's a lot of people that are on every webinar. Easy use doesn't have all the functionality that that stealth does, but, but I would, I would say that is like the, the stack prep, the stack preference. Right. In terms of like CRM, CRM webinar tools. So yeah. Oh, and one of the most important ones, I can't even let this out. So one of the biggest challenges with scaling properly is attribution. And up until recently, up until this year, you know, and we've used a lot of stuff. We've used.

Gosh, I just went blank. But anyway, we use a lot of.

The other like kind of like a wicked reports kind of idea.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But we switched everything over to Hiros. We've been using Hiros now and it is by far the best attribution tool that we have. We get very, very clear data and we know exactly how to properly allocate budget. A lot of people who are exclusively depending upon the Facebook Pixel or just some sort of tracker that a pixel based tracker, you're losing money. Like, I mean, and I've seen as bad as, you know, numbers off by, you know, 30 to 50%. All right. In some cases, like, it's just crazy. So like if you're allocating your advertising budget on inaccurate information, like you're just throwing away money. So. So yeah, man, like Hiros is badass. We're also an agency partner with them as well. So if you want to, want to get hooked up, like, definitely reach out. But I think if you're spending at least $10,000 or more, you have to have it do proper attribution. Whether you're doing a call funnel, whether you're doing a traditional webinar funnel or upsell downsell funnel. Like it's, it's an absolute must.

And that's H Y R O S right?

Yes.

Hyros. Okay, very cool. So everybody listening? Go check out Sam Bell, marketing. Dude, thanks so much for. Dude, you dropped so much knowledge on everybody. Like, I think this is the deepest we've gone on both webinars and Facebook ads.

So it was a pleasure.

More.

Really appreciate it, man.

Thanks for having me.

All right. Thank you. See it.

Awesome. So it's a pretty good interview there.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Yeah. Well, we took a 10 minute break before hitting record again.

We did, yes.

Yes. This is our new banter section.

Banter. Yeah. We polled our audience. If you're listening to this, you may be one of the people who took the poll.

Thank you.

Thanks. Dude, we're changing the show so much. Well, we're not changing the show, dude. Chick. I don't know why I'm saying, dude, a lot. I was calling Sam Bell dude a lot too, but. Yeah, I don't know why, but we polled our audience and we got so much amazing feedback. We're not, we're not like drastically changing the show, but we are making some tweaks based on the feedback. And one of the pieces of feedback was you wanted us to get into the content quicker. Just, you know, quick intro, introduce who we're talking to, and let's get to the content. Well, Joe and I like to banter. We like to chat about what we just chatted about.

So he uses the banter. I think you, you, you dubbed this banter.

Banter. This is our banter portion. Every podcaster uses the word banter. What are you talking about?

It's funny. That's a. I don't use it outside of this context.

I guess maybe it's just an industry term. I don't know.

But let's go banter, Matt.

Let's chit chat.

Let's go take a walk outside and banter.

Let's, let's, let's screw around a little bit on our podcast. Is that better?

I mean, that. I don't call banter screwing around, Matt. It's a very serious podcast and this is our business. People are here. We want to give them what they came for.

Yes. Anyway, I, this, since that's our banter right now, since this is the first episode that we're doing it on, I wanted to give a little bit of context that at the end of the shows we're going to talk a little bit about what we just talked about and maybe give some other insights into our business and fun things like that.

Because, like a mini therapy session.

Yeah, because the feedback that we got was the sort of intros got a little bit long, but we also got feedback that a lot of people like this sort of back and forth exchanges that you and I have. So I didn't use the word banter there.

That was good. Back and forth exchanges. I expect more, you know, thesaurus, like items like that.

Yeah.

Pop up.

The other feedback, the other feedback we got a lot of is that people want more therapy sessions from us. Right. Well, I don't think we're going to do like a therapy session a week, but these little outro sections give us a chance to you know, have maybe like a little mini therapy sessions. We're still going to do at least a once a month therapy session, but of course.

Yeah, yeah. So these, these will be reserved for, you know, like, I don't know, like 10 minutes ish or so that will be. And we're. Yeah, we're already two and a half in, so we gotta pick up the pace.

Okay.

But we're gonna, we're gonna chat about a lot of just what's happening, but really obviously what's happened in this episode too, and how it probably relates to stuff we're doing, what we're seeing what we think about from what we just heard. So with like Sam, tons of webinar talk, tons of ad talk, and how do you connect the two and scale and I mean, so many applications here for. And then to kind of, I guess encapsulate what you were saying with the, with the survey is that we're like honing in on audience building topics. The topics to anything around, you know, traffic generation, growing email lists, ads, things like this. Like, all that stuff's gonna feed your machine, whatever that is, and then monetization. So it's like grow that and then how are you gonna monetize? Well, a lot of folks who polled and listened to us and just our customers and whatnot, they love affiliate marketing, they love all these multiple income streams, but nothing's to say you can't apply this to your sales approach that is currently working or not working for you. Sales are sales across the board. A lot of mech. But like, yeah, we're going to cater to a lot of these kind of, I guess, lateral forms of revenue streams through affiliates and partnerships.

I mean, really, really, we're honing the audience. We're not honing the audience, we're honing the types of topics we're going to talk about to talk more to people that are focused on building an audience and people that are focused on monetizing the audience. And I think, you know, we're going to get more tactical. That was some of the other feedback that we got through these surveys. And you're going to hear us talk about these surveys and probably a few other outros in the. And our next therapy session, we're probably going to break down the survey in a lot more depth, but that people wanted more tactics, they wanted us to get into the content quicker and they wanted more therapy session type stuff. So those are kind of the major shifts you're going to see with the podcast. For the most part, you're not going to notice a whole lot of difference. But mentally for us, it makes it easier to pick which guests to bring on, pick which podcast we go on.

Tell it better. Explain who our podcast is to our guests that are coming on things like that. That's really the purpose. You as a listener probably won't notice a whole lot of difference. Shouldn't. Other than the fact that maybe we're a little bit more tactical and the intros are shorter.

I'm just saying. Yeah, it's really more focused, I would say more than anything. Yeah, tactics are going to be there around even non tactical seeming things. Like a lot of we'll have a lot of mindset and kind of psychology type folks on the podcast and there's a lot of interest in the results about that. But the big thing that we'll strive to do is bring out the tactics, extract these tactics so you can get them in the notes that we're taking on every episode, which we're kind of rebranding and rethinking the notes even into more action guides for each episode. So we're actually gonna put less backstory in those notes. They're going to be more geared to. With Sam's case, ton of webinar strategies, walking through, you know, his process and then the ads process of actually creating a campaign. Like holy crap. Yeah, like that thing is going to be in the actual action.

I can't wait to get those notes back so I can hear them back again.

How do we get the notes again? I forget.

Hustlinflowchart.com comp yeah, c o M P. That's right.

We might change that to action or something later.

But for now, let's not compensate comp right now. And it will always be at comp. If we make it at action, then it will be at both. But is that comprehensive?

That's a future thing.

Yes, that's in the future. So we talked a lot about webinars on this episode. Webinars is something we used to do a lot of. We've kind of done less of. I actually think that Sam did a great job of making webinars feel much more approachable again, big time. So, you know, maybe we'll start doing some more webinars again and experiment with some of the tactics. After we got off the call, Sam said, hey, if you guys need help setting up webinars or stuff, you know, you want to pick my brain, feel free to shoot me messages. Happy to help. So we'll probably take him up on that, maybe do some more webinars and get his advice to help us get those webinars get some traction.

He took a different approach that not approach that we have taken necessarily. At least not at Evergreen.

Yeah.

Between the two of us. And it just makes a Lot of sense. The numbers game. And the beauty is you can kind of on the ad side, which I think we're going to translate to now, it's like you can leverage the, you know, he's a big Facebook guy, but he leverages all the platforms really. But the fact is these platforms have really great AI and built in brains basically that are way smarter than us humans collectively even.

Yeah.

You know, and leverage those platforms. And he like, that was probably the clearest way I've ever heard that described. Yeah. Even with the specifics in there too.

Yep. And at the end, he actually broke down his tool stack of the tools that he uses in his business. There's another webinar platform that he didn't mention that we, that when we do webinars we, we've used in the past and we really like. It's called Easy Webinar. Right. And Easy Webinar is one of the sponsors of this show. We love Casey over at Easy Webinar. We love the, the platform. They are, they are sort of evolving it and improving it all the time. And it's a really, really great platform to do both live and automated and hybrid and all the different else in between. All the webinar types you can do with Easy Webinar as well. And he actually made a, I believe, a 25% off offer for hustle and Flowchart listeners.

So if you go to possibly. Yeah, there's a discount. I forget. I think it is 25.

I think it's 25.

Well, we could always pull it up on the page in front of you.

Okay, I will pull it up on the page in front of me. So it's@easywebinar.com Hustle.

Let's confirm our copy here.

Yeah. Easywebinar.com Hustle.

I'm just going to type in talk at the same time sometimes. Yes.

Refresh a page. I think sometimes the HTTPs, you know, that whole fun thing. Pause, y'.

All.

There we go.

There we go. 25% off exclusive offer, 20% off the monthly and 25 off annual.

There we go.

There you go. I just want to make sure we're good.

So if you sign up on a monthly basis, he's giving you 25% off for being a listener. If you sign up on an annual basis, you. He's giving you 25% off since you're a listener.

Dang. Right?

Easywebinar.com hustle. That's where you can get that. Another great webinar platform that you can implement all of the stuff that Sam was teaching with that platform as well, for sure.

So, yeah, this is a fun episode and I think an example of how you'll get some future ones. I think Sam's a super tactical guy, just naturally anyway. Even said he was a data guy, so it's pretty easy to get him honed in on this. So we'll see how this fares in the future. But I was stoked on this episode. I'm happy.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of. I hope it helps you guys too. Everyone listening in. However, even if you don't use the webinar portion of it, use the ad portion. Like, that's just a simple. You don't need a damn ads course. Like, just follow what he just. Which is crazy. I mean, that's what I liked about Sam so much too. He just gave away the farm when it came to that.

Yeah. So open, so transparent. So just like giving, not holding anything back. So awesome stuff. Thanks so much for listening to this episode and it's been real and more good shit like this.

Yeah, tell your friends too, if you feel like this. This. You know, this Refocus podcast, if you made it this far, I hope you'll enjoy it. Go, go tell some others. And if you want to do the whole review and all that fun stuff, wherever you're listening, we would always appreciate that.

Appreciate it. And you know, we will read some reviews on the show from time to time, so that's always a bonus.

We're going to get a little CR you with this here thing. All right, we're over our 10 minute mark now. We got to stop talking, Matt.

All righty. Thanks for listening.

Bye, y'. All.

Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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