September Dohrmann — Old School Marketing Tactics For Huge Events

Boom, Boom, Boom. Boom, Boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flow chart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Yellow, Yellow, yellow, yellow.

Now you're supposed to say orange. Oh, that was like the standard opener that we've, we've done before, you know.

Yeah.

All right, so we are back for another fabulous episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast brought to you by evergreenprofits.com that was fast.

I don't even think I said it right.

You didn't. But you know, you know what we're talking about here. Evergreen profits dot com. That was slow and scary sounding. All right, so today we're on the line with September Dorman of CEO Space. She is the visionary. The buck stops with her. So she says, and I believe it because she knows her stuff. When, when basically running this company. It's been around for over 30 years. They hold these live events and also chapters all over the country.

All over the world. I think it's all over the world.

That's right. And so they. It's actually really interesting. She might be one of the only guests we've had on so far that really doesn't do their marketing. Just really online. It's kind of quote unquote old school, but it's really, it's just human to human at the end of the day, it's face to face, a lot of it. But. So we break down how she's actually used these quote unquote old school styles of marketing to sustain the growth of this 30 year old business that is still thriving, but they're actually reinventing themselves. And a lot of what this hinges on is the ability to systemize what they're doing right now, but also applying very specific leadership to this whole thing. And September breaks down and I know that might sound boring to some people, but just think about it. She's holding, I think they said four or five events every single year. They're five or six days long, they're about a week long. She has a company that's about 40 people large, but then they have extra volunteers to help them run these events. But it's all done off of checklists, it's all done off of spread. Not spreadsheets, but maybe, but systems and documented processes. But with applied leadership where it's just like, boom, go.

Yeah. No. And there's a lot of cool little tangents that we go off in this episode. You're going to hear about some strategies for if you're thinking about raising capital For a business, you're going to learn some strategies for systematizing the things that you're already doing in your business and how to make sure that you have systems around them. You're going to learn about, you know, what sort of leadership skills are required to run a company of this size and put on these events every year. And we also go a little bit behind the scenes with her of like, what goes into actually putting on these pretty big events. I mean, there's a lot behind the scenes that goes on and so we definitely take some time and pick her brain on that topic as well.

Yeah. And hold tight because she actually gave like a Rolodex of books that if you're in a leadership role or a sales role in your business or really an optimization role, pretty much if you're a business owner, you should definitely pick these books up. They're amazing. We've read, I think half of them, but definitely the other ones we're about to go buy on Amazon. So definitely tune in and pay attention to this stuff. It's a little different than normal marketing stuff we're talking about here.

Sweeto. Let's jump over to September Dorman.

Hey, September, thanks for joining us on the show today.

It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, for sure. Well, you hold some pretty interesting events in CEO Space and have been doing. How long has the company been around for now?

We've been around for about 32 years.

Nice. Has it always been these events, like in person style events along the whole way?

Yes, absolutely. We hold five forums a year, so it's a little bit more than every quarter. We meet up with high achieving business owners to help them move their business forward through collaboration and cooperation with the community.

Very cool. Now, so how did, how did you get into that? What were you doing before you were working at CEO Space? And what was kind of that evolution to build what you guys have built?

Oh, well, you know, life is funny. It works in very strange ways. And you don't always know the purpose of why things are happening. But what I was doing before was I was investing in real estate. I was buying distressed properties and flipping them. I was also a manager of a salon at the time as well too. And it was around 2006, 2007 is when I first heard about CEO space and I heard about it from a client perspective. So I was working on a very large real estate development project in Nashville that was putting all the pieces together and I was meeting a team. My godmother had told me about this organization. At the time, the name of the company was IBI Global, but she had told me about this organization and that people come to share ideas with one another, they cooperate, they collaborate, they share experiences and contacts to help another person move forward. And I had met with the owner. I'm going to make a long story short, but I had met the owner of CEO Space, Bernie Dorman, through a mutual friend and he was looking for coaches to help with a program that he has called Funvesting.

And.

And he heard that I had a little bit of a gift in that area and I began coaching his clients. That was in this particular program and that's how it all started.

That's cool. Yeah. And I know we have a mutual friend in Paul Lindbergh as well. Yeah, local guy here in San Diego. He's been on the podcast before and yeah, he's said great things about you and CEO Space. So that's why we're like, okay, let's get you on the podcast. We gotta got to pick your brain on some stuff, but we'll be nice about the picking, I promise.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Great guy. What a brilliant, brilliant mind he has. You just sit and listen to Paul mind dump his ideas. You just take notes, record the conversation. He's just such a.

We've done exactly that. He's a past guest. And that is literally what it. What that episode turned into is. Okay, Paul, just tell us the ways of the world. Just go ahead and talk. And it was amazing. We talked about keto and health and fitness for the first half hour and then business for the second half hour.

It was fun.

Sounds about right.

Yeah. We'll have to do it more because he's just right up the road from us, so you gotta take advantage of that. But so what are you so in your. In your role now, running the company, that's you're. So you're pretty much the point person now?

Leadership role, yes. My husband says the buck stops with you. I said, okay, there you go.

So what is it that you're currently. I know you're big into leadership, systemizing and all that, but what does your day to day kind of look like?

So right now, my day to day is really continuing to move the different projects together that we're building. About four years ago, we've decided to restructure the organization, put in systems and processes to simplify things, to make us more efficient, to make us run better and to be able to serve our customers better. And we are at the tail end of that. Rebuild. And where we're focusing now is kind of starting back at the very beginning. We originally started working with the sales team and providing them better tools. Well, now we're circling back around to that project four years later and we're saying it's time for an upgrade once again. So we're looking back at all of the work that we've done over the four years and we're just going through it again. Now that everything has shifted and we've gotten clearer on our vision, we've gotten clearer on our culture, we've defined our boundaries for our culture, those sorts of things, it's time for us to up level what we've once worked on. And that's really what my day to day life looks like.

It sounds a lot like really optimizations is looking at what you have and then just continually improving those things, even if they are four years ago that the first iteration of whatever that thing was. Your case, Sales. Yeah. That's kind of like a common thing we hear.

Yeah. And there's been little tweaks along the way. You know, we will say wait, why did, why are we doing that process again? And we'll go, I don't know, okay, let's not do it that way. Here's a better way of doing it. And so there's little tweaks that go along the way for. It's, it's like what you said, this is like 2.0. It's that upgrade of what we've already created.

Yeah. Cool. So how would you recommend. Cause it sounds like, I mean, you guys have been around for 30 years, so you're an established company, but it doesn't make you immune to the changes in the market, the marketing landscape which I think we were chatting about, you know, a lot of your marketing prior to, I think now was mainly kind of like not online marketing. Is that still. Is that kind of the case?

Yes, it is. So we've grown word of mouth for 30 something years. All of our time of being here, it's only been through our grads sharing it with other people and we. That's one of the other projects that's on the, on the plate for me now is looking at our online business, really defining it, figuring out what's the best model, what's the best approach, what's the best strategy and rolling something out that has never existed before for a 30 year old company. And we want to be able to capture our audience over those 30 years.

And no matter where they're at in their business. So Being able to provide that support through an online platform, for me it's really exciting. I love this stuff. I love creating new ways of improving business and implementing core elements into a business that didn't exist before is just a highlight for me. I love that part.

I love that. Now I have a question. So you said over the last 30 plus years that it's pretty much been all word of mouth. Have you found any good sort of systems or processes to sort of expedite that word of mouth? Are there ways that you're encouraging people to go spread the word to help grow this platform?

Yes. So we have clubs all over the U.S. we even have clubs in different countries. India, we have somebody that's in Russia that's coming on board soon as well too. And we have lots of members up in the Canada area. But what we do is we have a club system and there's an individual that's responding for leading that club. Their title is called a club president and their goal is to host gatherings once a week or bimonthly. And these gatherings can be anything like luncheons or dinners or just simply coming to hang out and get to know each other. And in that is where our grads come together on a local event in between the five forums that we hold. And they bring people with them, people they feel that would add value to the membership. That would add value to that city club as well too. And it's been working really well over the last 30 years.

I love it.

There's always room for growth and improvement.

Well, I mean if you nail down that part, that's almost the more difficult, the unsystemized. I mean obviously there's a system to all that too. But I guess automations, the scalability, there's a lot of factors that you've already nailed down which a lot of online businesses would never think about.

Yeah, that is true. Thank you for that perspective. That is very true.

We're always looking from different angles here, but so. Yeah, so what I'm kind of curious actually. What is your mode of online marketing now that you haven't really done it in the past? Is there something like a medium you're going to focus on?

Yeah, we want to focus on a membership site. First of all, we're a membership organization, so kind of makes sense. Right. Goes hand in hand. But the membership site, we have so much valuable content. It's figuring out how to distribute that content and we've got wonderful content over the 30 years of being in business. So obviously marketing tactics that we were teaching back in the early 90s, is not going to necessarily apply to what's going on today. But there's a lot of leadership, there's a lot of other softer skills. Those motivational talks, those mindset talks that we can share with an audience. And so forming that online membership site is going to be the hub of our online marketing.

I like that. Yeah. Because that's. I feel like if you have a good backbone of that online, that could be almost like your first touch. If someone can't go to a local group, or maybe they are in a local group, they could join that for extra supplements and then from there obviously upsell them into anything else you got, like those big events. So that's absolutely.

Yes. And making that online platform interactive somehow, and that's the big question that we're all putting our brains around, is what does that element look like? How do we translate this amazing culture and this amazing experience that happens at the forums? How do we translate that to an online experience where people get to connect with one another and feel safe enough in doing so to collaborate for the purpose of collaborating for the purpose of cooperating with one another and seeing how they can support one another's growth or seeing how they can support one another's goals that they're looking to accomplish.

And.

And so that's the piece. A, is. It's exciting to know that that's a challenge that's in front of us. And B, it's still a challenge at the end of the day.

It is.

Yeah. No, that community element is one of those online especially, it's one of those tough nuts to crack. I mean, people have done it through things like Facebook groups, members, our customers actually have an online forum that they use. But it never really kind of has that same feel as being in person talking face to face with people. So that's definitely one of those tougher nuts to crack that we're constantly working on as well.

That's true.

Now, I'm curious about the actual events. What goes down at these events? How many days long are they? What do people expect that go to one of these big five events that you put on each year?

Yeah. So the event officially starts on a Tuesday and it ends on a Saturday. We also have three days prior to the event. That Saturday, Sunday and Monday is dedicated to our bonus class. And this is a free class that our grads or new members can go to. But it is a very intense.

Class around capital education. What do you need to know about raising capital? What are those laws that you have to know, and more importantly, how do you stay in over compliance within those laws? We teach overcompliance. Part of Bernie's story, he got in trouble for what he should have known and he thought, this is insane. This is a competitive model and a competitive system. And I got trapped in it and I got punished for what I should have known. I'm going to make sure that that doesn't happen to anybody else. So at CO Space, we teach overcompliance when it comes to raising capital. If the government tells you you only need to have one forum, but here's three other forms for you to fill out. We're going to advise you, you should fill worry it's better to be in overcompliance than to not. So we even do role playing during those capital classes with investors so that you can get comfortable with this new language. See, raising money is not hard, it's just new. As my husband would say, Bernie says all the time, it's not hard, it's just new. It's a new language that you've got to learn and it's not impossible. But once you wrap your mind around that vocabulary, you wrap your mind around what that conversation looks like with an investor, which investors to choose, what attorneys to work with, what should you look for in these individuals, those sort of things. So it's a really intense deep dive for three days into capital.

Wow. Really quick. Before you go, before you go any further, is there any quick tips? I'm actually kind of curious about the raising capital. Like just one thing that you're like, oh, this is a really cool nugget for you.

Oh my gosh.

One thing put you on the spot there. I know, that's just piqued my interest. So about the language, let's call it so the way. You know what, take that back. How about the mindset? Like someone who feels like they want to raise capital, but maybe they're not ready or they're not worthy, Like a lot of companies are just like, yep.

That conversation comes up a lot. And going back to the days where I was providing coaching for people in a program that they, that they offer, that SEO Space offers. It's called a fund busting program. So we teach people how to raise capital. And this question comes up often there and with people that are in the capital class, and it's really a shift in mindset of just because you don't have this money, just because your bank account doesn't reflect what you want it to or what you feel like it should doesn't mean that an investor knows that about you, nor is it their business. It is not their business to know your personal financial situation. It's a shift in mindset that when you're raising capital, you're not raising capital because you're broke. You're raising capital because it is a strategy on how to grow your business. And you switch hats. So there's the personal hat that we wear, and then there's a business hat that we wear. And having that mindset going into a conversation that I'm doing this for my business is completely different than coming to the table with Jesus. I'm broke. I ain't got two dimes to run together. And I should not be sitting here having this conversation because then the energy is felt in that. A sophisticated investor is going to pick up on that. This person's not confident in what they're doing. And the only way to step into a confidence mindset is to know that this is a strategy I'm executing for my business, and this is a business process.

I love it. And you said it right there. It's a strategy. And they're approaching it with that. Maybe they have a vision or something in the future, in the next could be year or five years later, and it's like, no, we are going to get there, but you're going to help me get there faster.

That's it.

I love it. Cool. Okay.

And I like the tone that you put with that as well, too. If I could add is that you're very clear. There's a boundary there. You're either on the ship or you're not. You're either going to get on this boat, row with us in the same direction, or you're not at all. And getting to that point faster, oh, my gosh, that is so empowering for a business owner to know that they've got that kind of leverage. I'm clear about what I'm doing, and if you want to be a part of this, come on board. We're going to have a great time. Otherwise, you need to get off right now, you know?

Yeah, I love it. Yeah. It's just clear. It's just clarity. It's like, hey, you could be nice but direct, you know? And that's at the end of it. Cool. Sorry to cut you off, but the rest of the event, I think you had another day or two.

Oh, yes.

So on Tuesday is when we officially start, and we have a ton of networking activities that we do. Why is that important? Business is about relationship. As the CEO as an owner of a company, your sole responsibility and key job, in my opinion, is to focus on developing relationships, period. And when you go to most events, whether it's a specific value, such as I'm going to go to this marketing event or you're going to go to maybe a mindset type event, they typically have networking times built into the schedule, Right? So this is a networking time. And what do you end up usually doing? Well, there's nobody to talk, so everybody kind of walks around in the halls and we'll find a spot to network and those sort of things. But if you're uncomfortable with networking, if you're a really deep introvert and you're not comfortable just going up to people and randomly talking, it can be a really ineffective event for you if you're trying to make contacts with new people. What we do is different. We focus heavily on network and we put our members in exercises. They're fun, they're very engaging, and they cause people to really connect on a kind of a deeper level instead of a surface. Oh, yeah, this is what I'm doing. Here's my business card. Oh yeah, that's nice what you're doing. Okay, thanks for your card. Hey, it was great to meet you. And then you go on this. It's a deeper conversation. We teach instead of saying, my name is September and this is what I'm working on. We teach when we start our networking activities that I'm going to start off, or you're going to start off saying, so what's your name? And tell me what you're working on. So you got this give back mentality, this law of reciprocity in action. And it's powerful. It's powerful to be in service the moment that you meet somebody and how that is reciprocated is amazing. And so we're really heavily focused on networking. Even our meals are focused on networking. So we have meals twice a day, Tuesday through Friday. And during those meal times, we have one of our vetted subject matter experts hosting that meal table. And members can select who it is that they want to learn from or get coaching from at that table. And that's what happens. You're breaking bread with somebody, you're listening to a subject matter expert give you some guidance in a particular area as well as all the other people at the table. So it's like this mastermind meal where everybody goes around, they say, this is what I'm working on or this is what I'm stuck. And everybody's contributing to that idea that's the cooperative element that we have. And then of course we've got classes. Our classes are very focused on interactive activities. So instead of just having a talking head, we encourage and really.

Inspire our faculty members to be very interactive with that. So how can you make this more hands on? What kind of role playing can you do to really drive in these points? What kind of activities can be implemented in this content so that the key takeaways really sink in? And it's not just information you're going to read when you get home. These are actionable steps that you can make either right away or when you get home to help move your business forward.

I love it. Like you said, it's interactive. So it's locking that stuff in their heads right there in person, maybe interacting with someone who could be a potential JV partner or just advisor, whoever, someone to take their business forward. And I think those are always the most fun events to attend as well. The interactive, even for introverts, you know, it's to kind of get them out of your shell a little bit, to just kind of start just opening their brains up. Because like you said, starting with that question, it almost takes you out of automatic mode immediately.

Yes, it does.

So what does the ideal attendee look like? Who are you looking for? Who's kind of the. This is our ideal CEO space member.

So we ideally are in a perfect world and a lot of our clients really do reflect this kind of the criteria of what we're looking for. We want to find high achieving business owners, people that are committed to their success. And when you have a certain level of commitment, you know that you're going to do whatever it takes to move your dream forward. You're going to do whatever it takes. If you've got to get further educated on something, you're going to do it. If you need to make an investment in your business to move it forward, you're going to do that. If you're going to take a risk, it's pretty good risk, but you're still going to take it because you know that it's going to benefit you in one form or another. So what if the risk doesn't turn out? So what if you make that risk? It doesn't turn out. But you know what you did get out of that was a tremendous amount of lesson. I posted the other. I think I read this from somewhere. It's not that I lost money. I paid for a lesson.

How many times have you paid for lessons?

You know, I love it. Yeah. Or a business model like we've done this in like agency work. We did not like being an agency, but it was a time where we can serve, give value, and almost get paid to learn. So it's almost like we were almost like investing our time there to do what we're doing now and more.

That's it. High achieving business owners that have typically anywhere between 0 to 10 employees. When we look at our membership base, we can break it up into three sections. We have this zero to three employees, kind of a startup mode, or maybe it's a small business that really doesn't want to expand outside of its own community. Then we have in the middle, which is what I just described, that 0 to 10. So 5 to 10 employees, they're in revenue, they're doing well, and they want to take it to that next level. And then we have another third are investors, people that are coming into seospace looking for projects to invest in. People that are purely in their contribution mode. They're looking to be a part of something where they can contribute their experience to other entrepreneurs and help them move forward. So when we look at our membership, that's the best way to describe it. And all along the way, it's that high achieving business owner that's in each level.

Yeah, I mean, that's at the heart of every solid entrepreneur that wants to keep growing what they're doing. I love it. Matt, did you want to go down the vein of more there or shift over to system?

Yeah, let's talk about the system stuff.

That's kind of. Yeah. So we started talking prior to this call about the ways that you guys not only capture the stuff that you do in your business, but you systemize it, scaling. But the key thing is that leadership is kind of wrapped in all that. Can you kind of walk us through how you guys approach systems and leadership?

Yeah. So, you know, leadership is the cousin or the sibling to culture. Right. So when you define the culture of how. What is that belief system that everybody operates from as a culture, it really changes how you approach the different systems and processes within your business. So for me, leadership, getting the house in order is key. How are you leading? What are you leading them to? What is that belief system that you all have as a team, whether you're a team of two, team of one even, or you're a team of 20, what is those common belief systems that everybody lives by? And so when you go to approach a particular process that needs to be systematized to either be more efficient in that area or to better understand why Isn't it working as well as you would like it to? Or even how can we improve something that's already doing so great? Systematizing that, looking at it as a step by step process and how you do this, A leads to B, B leads to C. It's a little mundane to do those, but once you get it all out on paper and you really can see this is how we're currently doing it, and then applying those core belief systems of how we navigate how we treat our customers, whether they're internal or external, what's that experience like for them? You begin thinking in those terms. If you don't have that cultural foundation, it's just a process. Right. It's just a step that we take. It's a task that we do as a company. But as you integrate that culture element, the flavor of how you deliver that changes it, changes it for the person that's executing on that task. And it also changes the end user of who's going to be experiencing that particular task. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So expand on where you start. So the culture. So if someone's looking at one of the listeners here is looking at their business, maybe of one or of 100, who knows, what elements should they look at inside their business to pull out and be like, oh, that's part of my culture, they might be too close to it and not see these things.

That's a great question. Pulling the team together, having the conversation, we need to define that as a group. What is that belief system that we operate from? And you begin throwing ideas in the brainstorming session. I love post its. I should own stock and post its. I love them.

Everybody gets a stack of post its and they begin writing words down. We are collaborative, we're compassionate, we're passionate about what we do. All these words and you put them all together and you see where the common ones are, you kind of bring them together, remove all the duplicates and you look at that list.

And you try them on for a while. Whittle it down, whittle it down. Can you simplify it? Is there a way of maybe combining two or three words and making a sentence out of it? Go and look at other people's culture decks. It's a great way to stimulate ideas. There's a book called Steal like an Artist that you look around you, you find inspiration through other people and you create your own from that. And so that's where I would suggest looking. If you're too close to the forest to see the trees, then or what Is it too close to the trees to see the forest?

Yeah, that's the one.

Yeah. Mind dump. Just mind dump and see where it goes.

Yeah, no, I think it's a. It's a great exercise. And that's. And that would be so simple and even for yourself. Or maybe you ask, I could see someone. If you're a person, you only one or two people running the business. Maybe ask your best clients out there, people who in your, you know, partners in your network to give you some feedback.

That's it.

I love it.

Who are your biggest fans? Have them be a part of that. You think they're your big fans now. You wait till you make them a part of an internal decision like that. An internal creation. Yeah. They see you from a completely different perspective than anybody on the inside of the company. Will.

I love it. Go ahead, Matt.

I was going to continue on the topic of systems here and what are some examples of some of the areas of your business that you're kind of really proud of, the systems that you created in that area of the business? Because I know you mentioned before we jumped on and hit record, you mention that you had some really cool examples of systems that you've managed to set up in the business.

That's a great question. And again, you're asking me to pick which one of my children are my favorite.

You can share them all if you'd like. I'm sure our audience would love to hear them. If there's one or two that you think are the kind of key ones.

We'D love to have you on for three hours and just share every system in your business.

What are the one or two best ones?

I think for us, the one that really comes to mind is bringing on new faculty members, and those are our subject matter experts. And.

Creating that system of what happens from the moment they become inside of our orbit. What happens to them? What is their experience? Before I came into CEO space, and just give you a little backstory to this. Before I came into CEO space, a lot of the processes and the way that things were done was in somebody's head. There wasn't anything documented. And I'm a very linear thinker. I need to, you know, I want to see A, B and C. Give it to me this way, very clear, direct. And it was very challenging to get that information out of the prior team that was with us. And when we made that hard decision to get super lean and to downsize, all that information went with them.

Yep, that's right.

Guess what? We were doing a Lot of, okay, this is how I think it's done. This is what makes sense on how it could be done. Let's just start there. We started with what we knew and common sense, kind of what made sense. And we began to grow and build it from there. We test it, we go, okay, let's put this out there. Let's see how this works. As soon as there was a glitch, we knew that we had to change something within that particular step. And it took us about three or four years to do everything, all systems for the company. And now it's all documented in beautiful checklists and everything that is done as a checklist. And the checklist piece is really important to the growing your business, having the checklist. And I'll circle back around to that in just a moment. But as far as our faculty goes, it's step one. What do they do? They're going to go to a landing page. How are they going to get to that landing page? Well, they're either going to find out about us from an article or somebody's going to tell them to go to it, to reach out to us online, or we're going to meet somebody at an event and we're going to engage them. Okay, great. So if it's from here, this is what happens. And all the way through that interview, making sure that it's a mutual fit for both parties, down to the vetting process. You know, when do they go over to get their formal background check done? What happens when that report comes back to us? All the way down to the continuing of the development and the nurturing of the culture within the vest faculty. What does that system look like? And it's a continual loop. It repeats itself every time a new person comes in, that process just repeats itself and it's on autopilot. So nobody internally is consuming their time unnecessarily. They're being put into the process at the appropriate time for everybody. Nobody likes wasting anybody's time. So if we've got somebody that's interested in being a faculty member with CEO space, I don't need to have a conversation with them right away. They need to make sure that what we are and how we work as it relates to being faculty is something that they want to be a part of. So we send them information first before we ever have a conversation with somebody. And when they know all the key elements about being a faculty, particularly we vet, we have a formal background check. If you are not okay with that, then this is not a fit. And so we weed out a lot of the time wasting stuff by funneling down into a, into a funnel essentially. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, it does. In the, in the checklist, I'm sure. Support every, every bit of that stage there.

Yeah.

Is there a specific system? Because I know there's a million ways to capture, you know, the, the process is there your go to method for actually capturing this effectively other than writing it down like Google Docs.

I live on Google Docs. The Google platform is really amazing because there's a lot of, even down to our questionnaire of having a faculty member come on board when they fill out that questionnaire. A spreadsheet is generated and that spreadsheet communicates with our database.

Got it.

It's not like we have to go to a bunch of places. We custom built our database so that when we do utilize Google, all of those documents and all those elements is going to communicate well with our system, with our database. Does that make sense?

No. No, that's perfect. And we always love those simple answers like just use Google.

Well, it's also validating because it's exactly how we document our systems. It's all just in Google sheets and Google Docs.

Yeah. There's so many tools and tricks and wizards out there that you could use. But it's like, just stick to the basics. And Even you are 30 years in, so it's like cool. It works.

The basics. Oh, I love that. Sticking to the basics. You want to be a master at anything, you stick to the basics. And really that's been a key element for us over these last four years of reorganizing the company is when it begins to feel overwhelmed and too big and too many pieces. We're saying, okay, wait, what is the basics of this particular thing? And pulling ourselves back into that and not allowing ourselves to get caught up in all the bells and whistles because it's easy. It's so easy. And another way to identify that you are getting caught up in the bells and whistles is when you want to throw up your hands and go, screw it. I'm not going to just do it at all. I'll just keep doing it the way that it's done because it's easier. And just reminding yourself to stay in the basics. Just stay in the basics of how something is done.

I love it. Yeah. Now my brain always likes to over complicate stuff sometimes and then Matt does it in a different way. He's more analytical. But so it's like, yeah, it's finding that balance but like you said, if there's something that's just burning or it just seems like it's too hard, it's like it's probably a sign. Take the sign.

That's it. That's it.

Now how big is your company? Now how big is CEO space? Like how many employees? I'm just, I'm kind of curious about like the infrastructure and what goes on. Like what goes into a company that puts on these events and has this kind of membership.

So we have about 40 internal team members that includes part of our, that includes our sales team as well. At the forums here again, we really put it on a strong process, just a strong system. We literally run from checklists at our forum. Our staffing, we have volunteer staff. Our members can come back and staff, which provides a very unique leadership lessons in that as a side note. But our members can volunteer as staff and our staff runs on a system they know at this time every day. This is what needs to be done to this room, this room and this room. And there are captains to each task. So you've got your leader and somebody that's responsible for that role. And we have manuals that we go over. Very simplified, very simplified manuals. Not over complicating it because somebody's got to grab it right away. They're volunteering and you're telling them how to do a volunteer job. So it's not like they've got the repetition of doing this over and over and over. We have a lot of new faces that will come into staff, but it runs on a system. Registration that runs on a system. How we manage our faculty, that's another system. Our sales teams, our teams that we have that come in, all of that working with the hotel, every piece of it has been systematized so that we can be super efficient and we know exactly where in that system when an improvement is needed.

Yeah, no, that really just shows the value of creating systems like that. That you can have essentially short term team members that are really only working for your company for a week and they could come in and the business doesn't miss a beat because the systems are so well documented.

Right, exactly. Yeah. And tying it back into the checklist, if I could for a moment. Once you create, at first it was just a step by step process that we did. And then I was talking to one of my friends who also owns several businesses and they run three businesses simultaneously. And I had asked her, what the hell are you doing? Because I'm barely doing a good job keeping up with one Some days. And she says, well, I've taken that list because she had asked me this question years ago and I told her, look, we document step by step processes. And she says, I kind of plussed it and I took it into another direction of checklists. Now what happens is that anytime they want to offload a task to a freelancer for a couple hours a week, they just checklist and the checklist is implemented into a platform. I think Asana is the platform that they use and we use that one as well too. It's really good. So now you've got the accountability piece and your freelancer or this person that is not a full time employee but you needed help to release your. Release a task off your plate because it's consuming you. You now have an accountable, step by step flawless system that you can hand off to somebody else. Do you know how empowering that is to be able to do that and to know that it's going to get done and if something hasn't been done, you can go back to that checklist and go, oh, they stopped right here. They didn't do this next step. That's why it didn't move forward.

I love this because a lot of folks listening might not be feeling like they need to systemize. They're not a 30 year old company or they don't have 40 employees plus other folks that help them or run live events or maybe they're not going to sell their company in the future. But at least if you systemize all this stuff, like you said, it's more empowering to everyone on the team and it makes you feel almost sleep better at night.

Well, yeah, just to speak to that point, it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to systematize as a solo person business than it is as your business grows and you're adding more people and more infrastructure and more ads and more, you know, start systematizing from day one and it just seems like, you know, just get in that habit.

Yeah, even down to email management, emails is a black effing hole in our life.

Send that template to me, please. I need it.

No, you're right though.

They will suck your time more than anything else is that damn email box. And when you can offload that to somebody, how you manage it? Just pay attention to what you're doing when you go into your emails, you know, oh, what did I do first? Well, first I cleared out all the junk. I unsubscribed. Maybe that's another step. And then I flag these People or I do this, whatever that step by step process is, you can get somebody else to manage your emails, Run your business like a boss. You don't need to be tied down to emails. Email management, getting back to people on stupid questions that somebody else can answer for you.

Yeah, I think you just named this episode for us.

I know, right?

Run your business like a boss.

Seriously though, because that is probably the most simplistic system that email management right there that every single entrepreneur should be having in their business. Even if you're a solopreneur, especially if you're doing solo work because you're getting tied down by the minutia, the not strategy, you're not a visionary. You can't. You're responding to other people's thoughts.

Right?

Yeah. No, that's cool. I could tell you got passionate about that too.

Yeah. What gave it away?

Right. So you mentioned. So leadership. We talked a lot about systems and stuff, but it's key is the leadership is the person driving these systems. What are some points you can really speak to on that that folks can kind of keep in mind?

So one of the most expensive lessons that I paid for recently, I think it's my most current lesson. A couple months ago, I had made a decision to hire somebody to come in and to define a process for me. So I needed something done.

I wanted to up level the culture within the sales team. That's what I wanted to do. And I knew what I wanted it to feel like. And we had that conversation that as a team, this is what that culture feels like and I'd really like for it to be implemented and I want you to do that. And the conversations, the competency really appeared to be there and those sort of things. But what I learned on the backside of this, when I had made the decision to release this individual because the goals were not being met, is I gave away way too much power and way too much control of the outcome and how that outcome is going to unfold. Now, that's not to say that I should have micromanaged. It's very different.

What I needed to do was to be there working with that person side by side. Even though they were an expert and they had more experience than me, I still needed to be there, closer working with that person. In the very beginning of the relationship, the concept of CEO space was really easy for this person to understand. And even going to events and really having that experience was valuable. But as the owner or as the leader of guiding a company, it's your company. What does it look like for you? How do you want it to operate? Work next to that person so you can see what they're doing and coach them on how to adjust them. Because leaders, our main goal is to guide people. That's our job. Our job as leaders is to guide people. The question is, what are you guiding them to? Right. With this particular situation, it's not that I was looking to guide somebody anywhere. I was looking for them to guide me into a direction. That was a mistake. Not a mistake, but it was a powerful lesson for me. Because at the end of the day, as a business owner, only you know what that dream looks like. Only you know what that vision looks like. And if you have to hire somebody to work or build a particular aspect of the company, just work closer with them as a leader and truly guide them into your vision. Guide them into what that vision feels like and what the experience is of whatever it is that you're needing to bring somebody on board for. Does that make sense?

That does. And it seems like. And then the result should be them owning the outcome more so because they're almost invested in the bigger vision now because they've worked with you, they understand it, they're living it. And ideally, this thing is pushing them closer to whatever that result is that you're expecting.

That's it. And if that person's not the right person, you're gonna know it a lot sooner than if you kind of take a backseat and wait to see what they do. You've gotta give them room. You've gotta trust them to some degree. And they also have to trust you that you're guiding them to the right destination.

I like it. And it seems like you'd be able to weed someone out fairly quickly if you're working that closely with them. If they don't get it, I'm sure there's some simple questions you can ask that are like, yeah, not feeling this. Yeah.

I also suppose that, you know, working that closely with people early on, you're going to figure out how to better improve your systems just based on the feedback that that person's giving you while you're working closely with them.

That's it. And communication style, what is their communication? Is there a flow in communication or is there conflict? You're going to learn that right away versus taking a seat back. And then maybe you hear a justification or you hear an excuse and you roll with it because, hey, the excuse makes sense. But if you're right there with them and holding them accountable.

From your heart space, this is not an ego activity. This is not a. I'm your boss. I'm going to tell you how it's done. This is a guiding heart space. I believe in you. I know that you're capable and executing on what my vision is. And I'm going to stay with you, walk with you down this journey until I know you've got this 100% and you're. And you are going to be able to open up as this person that I believe in, open up and really expand on this vision, really move the needle forward on this element that we need to move within the company.

Yeah, no, this is. It's so cool. And I think that's how you can. This could be for the most complex system or the simplest system, but they're all equally as powerful in their own right.

This is amazing. So thanks for breaking that all down and let's wrap it up here. Unless you have our. Is there anything that you kind of wanted to get off your chest? I always like to ask this, that we might not have asked about this. This kind of stuff.

Okay. You guys ask really, really good questions. There's some things that you brought up. I was like, oh, I didn't even think of that. That's a good one.

Write them down. Cool. No, thank you. I'd like to hear that. Well, what are some books or any kind of publications, something that you reference pretty dang often or it's something that you recommend to others.

That you could share with us here.

Right. So I love reading. Leaders are readers. You may have heard that somewhere. I love to read. I can't get enough information from people. And I have a bunch of books that I really enjoy. Some of the ones that I really think of often or I truly apply the lessons that I learned. The elements that I learned within that book, obviously, how to Win Friends and Influence People. That's a classic. And you can never be reminded enough just how important it is to make people feel important. Listen to them, know their name, pronounce their name. Well, that matters to people that. Oh, you. You know, I don't know if you guys ever ran into this before, but you've met somebody three or four times, and at this point you would think they know your name. Right. But they don't get it. Right. You feel as if I don't matter that much for this person to even remember my name after meeting me four times, you know, so honing in on that. That book comes to mind a lot because I work with people all day long. Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek Fantastic book. Oh, that was a huge turning point for me when I read that book. Huge on leadership. It painted such a clear picture of what a solid loving leader looks like. Not somebody that cracks the whip, but that truly leads and guides people to their greatness.

Excellent book. Sales Management Simplified. That was phenomenal. Again, Mike and Micah Weinberg. In this book he breaks down that sales process and keeps it at a basic level and teaches you master those basics if you're leading a sales team. This is an absolute must book. I have not read a better sales book than that one. Wow.

Okay. Very good.

Yep. And that thing is tabbed like a mad person. I use it all the time.

The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy.

Oh yeah, I think that's a newer book from him, right?

Yeah, I think it's one of his newer ones. Yeah. Really impactful book, this one. My big takeaway from that was just relax. You know, I know I'm an impatient person. I think most people are. I won it yesterday. And you know, we live in a world where we're now have the attention span short of a goldfish.

Right.

So we want things instant. And the Compound Effect reminded me that there is a natural ebb and flow nature to life. And when you can relax in that and just know, take one step at a time, that's all you need to do is take one step at a time. And at some point there's a tipping point in those simple step by steps that you take that causes things to really open up. And you can find that a lot in life. When you read. When I read that book, I was going, wow, I can really see how that works in these areas of life. And just it taught me to relax a little bit on making things happen. Yeah, I won it yesterday. But take these steps and you will eventually get there.

That actually goes back to. Sorry, just a really quick. It's like almost at the very beginning of our conversation. Simple steps add up to these great things and with systems and great leadership. That's literally sounds like the compound effect right there. Just stick with it.

Yes.

You had one more. It sounded like.

Yeah, sorry. One more is the classic the Start with why by Simon Sinek.

That's a.

It really helps to hone in on the culture aspect.

That culture piece.

Simon Sinek came up on our previous podcast too. That's really funny. I'm seeing a trend today. This is awesome. No, those are amazing books. We'll link them up in the show notes for the listeners here because I know that was quite a bit, but they're all amazing. I think I've read half of them. But yeah, good stuff. September and where is the best place folks can go and reach out to you? Check out your events and all that.

Stuff so you can find out about us over@ceospaceinternational.com Perfect.

Easy enough. There you go. So definitely check them out. Lots of friends have gone through there. I know Paul is in Limburg. He definitely worked with you in the past. So it's all been great things. So definitely recommended and thank you for your time. September, this is amazing.

Yeah. Thank you, guys.

All right. Have a good one. All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com so that's about it. You'll find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.