Steve Olsher — Earn $1,000 Every Time You're Featured Somewhere

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

We're back.

We're back. I know you missed us.

I know. Yeah, we were gone far too long, huh? We.

I don't. I actually don't remember what date this is coming out on, so I don't know how long it's been.

No, I was. I was talking to the listener. Yeah, no, it's been too long since they listened to us, since they heard her voice.

That's what I was talking about.

Right. I don't know.

Anyway, what are we doing here, Matt?

So today we've got a great episode.

I was actually really, really excited about this episode today is a guy named Steve Ulscher and he's actually the founder of Lickr.com and quite possibly the inventor of email.

Yeah, you'll find out inside of this episode. Is he the inventor of email?

Did he invent email? Find out in a moment. No, but. So he is. He runs an event called the New Media Summit. He's got two podcasts, beyond eight Figures and Reinvention Radio. And what he likes to do is. What he likes to teach is he likes to teach entrepreneurs how to get on other people's shows and then what to do with that sort of.

Platform.

With the exposure. Yeah, the platform for sure. Steve's got the most concise formula and steps he lines out inside this episode. It's just a handful of stuff where he averages $1,000, $1,000 per show that he goes on. And this is not meaning that you need to start a podcast or any of that stuff. Even though we talk a little bit about that stuff, it's not required. But he has this system that any online business owner could replicate for their own business and actually make money from getting exposure on shows and not being douchey and being salesy in advertising, but actually giving amazing value and. And, you know, urges people to go find more.

Yeah, yeah. So you. You will hear us talk a little bit about podcasting and how to get, you know, how to actually grow podcasts and stuff. That is a topic we talk about. But the main focus is this step by step process that he's gonna map out for you of how every time he goes on somebody's podcast, he makes about a thousand dollars. And he also does this event called the New Media Summit, which we were selected to be icons at this Year Icons of influence.

Thank you, Steve.

So that's coming up. Unfortunately, this episode is coming out after that that happened. So if you saw us there, thanks for watching us.

Yeah, we're, we're headed out there. It's in Austin, Texas, next week at the time of this recording. But we'll be there out, out there for a week. So that's going to be really cool. It's a unique experience from what we've heard and all the structures. So, you know, if you're a podcaster or even if you're just thinking about getting on podcasts and making it the most of it and actually serious, definitely go check out the New Media Summit. I think they do them at least annually, possibly twice a year, and they kind of rotate around the country.

And he's got a, he's got a book, what is your what? Which you can actually get for free at what is your what dot com.

That's it.

And let's go ahead and talk podcasting and making money off podcast with Steve Ulscher.

Let's go. Hey, Steve, thanks for hopping on the show with us.

Yeah. Appreciate you having me on for sure, man.

Well, another local San Diego dude and sharing time in a mastermind as well. Just met you recently in there and that was super cool.

Yeah, yeah. Good folks in there. And somehow I snuck my way in and I'm happy to be a part of it.

Oh, I keep, like, kind of pinching myself. I'm like, man, this is a. I mean, we haven't even gotten to you yet. But just your background alone, I didn't realize you went back to 93liquor.com, CompuServe, all this. I'm like, holy moly. You, like, invented the Internet.

Yeah, right.

I know.

I was thinking about it actually just the other day because Amazon and I think the end of the day, over a trillion dollar valuation, or not valuation, but actually like market cap worth on that business. Right. And we both, Amazon and Liquor by Wire at the time launched fully functional e commerce sites in 95. And one of us did something very right. I'll let you. How did you figure that one out?

I think you did all right, man. You're living the good life in San Diego. You're holding your own events. Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, it's a relative term. And one of the things that I say when we've been doing podcasting since 2009, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you that we've got a podcast with millions of downloads every Single month. That's not us. But between the two shows where you mentioned radio and beyond, eight figures, we do. Okay. And one of the lines that I like to use is, we have the number of downloads that I need to support the lifestyle that I want.

Exactly.

And that's just kind of how I look at it.

That's so cool.

I think that's a cool perspective, actually. I never thought about it that way, but it's all relative, for sure. Yeah.

Well, I want to talk about your podcast in a couple minutes. Before we do, though, can we just kind of go over your backstory a little bit? I know. Here's what I know. I know that you founded liquor.com, i know that. Actually, we have a funny story, because I was reading your bio, and on the bio it says that you launched on CompuServe's electronic mall in 1993. I actually read that as you launched CompuServe's electronic email in 1993. So on the whiteboard, right before we were about to record, I had it written on the whiteboard. He launched email with CompuServe in 1993.

I was like, he invented email.

You're right. And then I went and rewrited. No, I think I got that wrong.

And I can't even tell you. I use that same bio. So I've actually got a page. I do a lot of interviews. As a matter of fact, outside of just a very few Facebook ads, in terms of paid advertising, I don't do any advertising at all around what I do, other than really just marketing through appearing on podcasts and having my own. And I've had that Bio up on stevealitra.com info for interviews, whatever. I send people there and then they read it, and I can't even tell you how many people cannot read that one sentence of launch on CompuServe's electronic mall in 1993. It's like, come on, just read the words that. I did not invent mail. It's not mail. It's like.

I gotta reword that one for some reason. Yeah.

Maybe it's an adjustment of a word or two. Right. Either way, it's impressive. It's cool.

And so I also know you've got a book called what Is your what? And that was, I believe, a New York Times bestseller. Right?

It was in 2013. We hit the New York Times list with that. And, yeah, that was. That was my third book.

Awesome. Well, do you want to. Do you want to go ahead and fill in any sort of, you Know any of the gaps? How did. How did you. You know, how did Liquor.com get started on CompuServe?

I'm curious about that. Yeah.

What's the whole backstory now?

So.

I don't know, man. I just. I think that, like, certain folks are just wired as entrepreneurs, right? And you guys are, and I'm sure a lot of your audience is, and I am. And, you know, I've just been always one of those guys to try to rub a couple of dimes together and make a quarter, you know, so just kind of always had that entrepreneurial spirit going from a really young age. I mean, picking up a rake and trying to get paid for raking leaves or grabbing a shovel. Grew up in Chicago and shoveling driveways or sidewalks, you name it, Right? I mean, I think I've done it over the years, and it led to a lot of interesting endeavors, not the least of which is DJing in clubs. And I actually opened up my own nightclub when I was 19, and that's a whole other story.

Wow.

And got involved in the catalog world way back in 1991. And the CompuServe tie in really comes with the fact that I was already doing direct mail back then and going to the grocery store. You see the AOL discs and the Prodigy disks and the CompuServe disks, and I was just like, man, what is this all about? And I was just really attracted to that world early on. And so I just simply saw the ability to open a store on what compuserver was calling their electronic mall back then as a way to provide more visibility and exposure around the catalog company that I was running, which was called Liquor by Wire, which was basically, we did the same thing for wine and champagne and spirits like FTD does for flowers. Right. In terms of orders come in, we deliver through a local retailer. And that really became kind of the embryonic stages of our moving that business online. When I picked up the domain liquor.com actually, along with bourbon.com in 1998.

How much was that Domain when you bought it?

We bought both domains, bourbon.com and liquor.com in 98 from fairly young guy who's just kind of squatting on them for 7,500 bucks.

Not bad, but that's actually. It's more expensive than I thought. But, I mean, hey, it's pretty amazing.

Considering that I had an offer from someone to buy Just the domain.

In 2006. Just the domain for 4.25 million. Yeah, I think it was a decent return.

That's what I was assuming, obviously that thing's going to just gain value.

But I don't want to sit here and I don't want to just gloss over this. I mean, I will say that investing the $7,500 at that point in time, honestly, was a stretch and there was concern around, does it actually make sense to do this? And I will say that that was probably the biggest leap of faith that I took in terms of investing in our business. I mean, outside of employees and doing what we would normally do to build the business. But, I mean, that was. That was a pretty big expenditure for us in those days. And, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't as easy a decision as you might think.

Yeah. And that's. I mean, you're literally pioneering a whole new thing. It sounds like what the electronic mall was almost like the original Shopify a little bit.

I mean, yeah, so to speak. It kind of had that. There was. AOL had a marketplace and CompuServe had a marketplace. But in terms of the Internet, it really, it was. You didn't even know where to go back in 93, because it didn't really exist.

It's kind of funny because I'm thinking now relating this to podcasting, which we all do, and you hold a big event for. You do all this stuff around it. And it sounds like we were all kind of on the cutting edge of that as well with the podcasting similar to what you were talking about. It was like, hey, we don't know where the eyeballs are. We kind of have a rough idea, but, you know, tracking's not the best in most cases. And it's almost like just, just, all right, I believe in this medium, let's just go for it for the long term and see what happens.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I started podcasting back in 2009, and I didn't stay the course. You know, I kind of ebbed and flowed and ebbed and flowed. And it wasn't until 2015 that I got back to doing this more on. I don't want to say a full time basis, but just on a consistent basis. And honestly, by that time, a lot of the organic growth that was in the podcasting space.

Kind of came and went. I mean, if you weren't, if you weren't already in that space and Fairly entrenched by 2014, 2013, you missed out on a lot of the organic growth taking place in the medium. And I say all the time, you know, if you, if you try to start a show, like, I'm not going to name name names here, but I think we know who some of the usual suspects are in the business space. And as an example, you know, if you tried starting a general business show, whether it's daily or otherwise today, you wouldn't. You'd have a really tough time getting into the rankings. So it's funny, I started and then I missed the boat and then I started, it stopped. And you know, it's just like I had just been consistent. I wonder where the numbers would be.

Totally.

It's funny because we have. We have almost the identical story. So we actually started podcasting in 2010. So you have about a year on us from it. But in 2010, I remember if we were getting 75 downloads a day, we'd be in the top of the charts. You know, like that was what it took back in 2010. And it's like now, you know, we'll get over a thousand downloads a day on our podcast and we're not even cracking the top 200 in the management and marketing category.

I know, right? I know, it's frightening. But that's the thing is, no matter what other people are telling you, I do think that at some point here, you just have to trust the vision. You have to trust the gut. Right? I mean, that's one of the things about the online space that I felt in 98 and even in 95 when we built one of the first fully functional e commerce sites, I just felt like there was going to be tremendous potential here. For whatever reason I could see that. I couldn't see bitcoin at the time. Damn it, I wish I would have.

We have a story there too.

I just can't see it with crypto, you know, I just can't see it.

So it's interesting because I'm almost thinking now that you just said it and we believe it and we know experienced it, is that it's more difficult to be seen as a podcaster now. But it's interesting because there are a lot of people starting new podcasts all the time and. But it's. Are they going to stick it through? You know, are they actually going to see this thing as a marathon? It's not a business. Can be for some, but let's be honest, it's very difficult. But I almost wonder if because it's so more difficult unless you have like this whole marketing strategy around it, then maybe it's more of an opportunistic time now if you have the chops to hang with it, obviously you probably have a Business?

I mean, it depends. Well, here's what I will say is that I believe that it's obviously never too late to get started. And of course, Pod Fade is a real, you know, it's a real phenomenon. People start shows all the time and then they stop. I mean, there's, according to some estimates, there's 10,000 new shows coming on every single month. So. And some estimates actually have bigger numbers than that. But what I will say is that if you're, if you're willing to jump into this mix with a very specific focus on a niche, I think that you do have a really good opportunity to build up. May not be the largest audience, but it will absolutely be the most highly targeted audience you could possibly find.

Yeah. And I guess it goes back to what you said. You know, if, if you're getting enough of those targeted folks for your business or whatever you're working towards, then, hey, that's, that's all you need. You don't need the millions of listeners.

Yeah, absolutely. And reality is, you know, it is a pull medium from the standpoint of when you compare it to email marketing. I mean, at first people opt in, they want your stuff, but then after that, you know how the numbers begin to dwindle from there.

Right.

But in terms of the downloads on podcasts, I mean, it's a pull medium from the standpoint of everyone who is downloading and listening to an episode is basically raising their hand to say, hey, I want that. Give that to me. So it's kind of like the equivalent of not only 100% opt in rate as far as email goes, but more like 100% click through rate, even if you have those 75 downloads, you know, a day on a show or a month on a show. And those are, let me ask you this. Would you speak in front of an audience of 75 people who have already raised their hand to say, I have a demon. I've demonstrated interest.

Oh, hell yeah.

You're talking about. And you take that speaking gig all day long.

Yeah. And you are taking it every single day too, because people are just opting in. Like you said, it's, it's an amazing way to frame it that way.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love it.

So you've got, you've got two shows right now. You've got Reinvention Radio and Beyond Eight Figures. And Beyond Eight Figures I think is fairly new. And you've been doing Reinvention Radio for a little bit now. What was, how, how did you get, get the idea for that podcast and why did you go that, that path with your, with both shows really?

Well, Reinvention Radio is the first show. We started that back in 2009. And I had really become a poster child in my own way of being that personification, if you will, of someone who has continually reinvented their lives and my life. And so I really got this bug to see if there were other people who were also reinventing their lives and how they were doing it and where they were at and where they're at now, and then really sharing that, that struggle, that story of how they got to where they are. And so that's really where it came from, is just basically knowing that I had been through the same struggle throughout my adult life, really of just trying to figure out who I am and what I should do. And I didn't really have those answers until I sat down and actually wrote the book that I needed, which is the book that became what is your what? And so really what I found that in teaching that whole process of helping people discover their what is that a lot of folks, you know, struggle with those same questions that I do, you know, which is really, what is it that I should be doing here with how I'm naturally wired to excel and how do I figure that out? Right? So that was the impetus for starting Reinvention Radio is let's just share the stories of how people figured out what it is that they should be doing and what they're really fired up to do, and how do they discover who they're most compelled to serve. And that over the course of the last nine years, as I said off and on, has allowed me to sit down with just amazing people over the years, people that, you know, like the Simon Sinek's of the world and then people that you've never heard of, who just have these unbelievable stories of transformation, right? And as I got more into the world of business and having built four multimillion dollar businesses from scratch over the years, what I became really curious about certainly in the last few years is.

Just really being able to answer the core question of why do so many companies struggle to reach five and six figures while others soar to seven, eight, nine figures and beyond? And where is that turning point? Like, where does it happen that an Amazon goes from having just this website to becoming this behemoth that they are like, is it a particular hire, is it a board member, is it raising capital, is it a particular initiative? What are those key moments? And then of course, the tactics and the strategies and shortcuts, et Cetera, that these companies are leveraging to continue to scale. And so it's just. It's always been a question of mine as an entrepreneur of, you know, how does this happen, why does this happen? And reality to me is, you know, seven figures is kind of the new six figures, right? I mean, if you got to $100,000, you were doing pretty good not terribly long ago, and now it seems like, you know, all you got to do is look at, like, Russell Brunson, right, And what he's doing with ClickFunnels in his 2 comma club. That's cool, right? Lots of people get into a million dollars in revenue, but it just seems to me like eight figures is kind of the new six, kind of the new seven, so to speak. And going from 100,000 to a million takes a lot of effort, obviously, a lot of dedication and so on. But once you get to seven figures, going from 1 million to 10 million is a whole other ball game. And that's really what that shows. You know, that's our goal, that's our objective, is to get to the bottom of those answers.

And I think that's a really cool thing because. And I agree with what you said there. It's. It's a lot more commonplace now with especially two comic clubs, actually a prime example. You can probably see how many people are just in that club. You're like, oh, all right. Like, if that guy could do it, then I could probably figure out. But, but like you said, you had these stories now, these guys that have guys and gals who have done eight figures and beyond and either sold or are currently running a company. I mean, just imagine those turning points, those things that they had to realize through their journey. You're, you know, you're kind of. I forget how long the shows are. About an hour or so, or.

Yeah, they're about an hour. Yeah, about an hour.

Is there a commonality that you've already noticed? I know it's a fresh show. Think you have about 10 episodes or so. Is there something that's already popping out? Like, aha, it's that.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. 1. One of the key things that's really popping out amongst all of these interviews is. And we've sat down with billionaires, we've sat down with CEOs of $100 million plus businesses, people who have exited for $4.5 billion. I mean, like, you know, we've sat down with entrepreneurs that run the gamut. It's even funny to say it, but you Know, even entrepreneurs who just run $20 million businesses, you know, it's like those Lacker guys, right? Yeah. But what I will say is that what the common theme, common thread really seems to be is that they've almost had to completely break their thinking and their business model in terms of what got them to a million couldn't possibly have gotten them to 10 and beyond. And so they've literally had to, in a lot of senses, start over and really scratch everything that had worked for them up until that point in order to get to 10 and beyond.

That makes sense. Yeah, it's literally reinventing their business. Not to put a pun into your.

Other show, it is, it's shifting from, you know, kind of being this.

Smallish solopreneur, possibly with a handful of employee type business, to really being an enterprise. And that shift from kind of idea and some traction to becoming an actual enterprise takes a whole other level of skill and different initiatives and strategies that you couldn't even possibly have thought, thought of trying to get to a million.

Yeah, that's amazing. I love those lessons. And definitely listeners go check it out. Beyond eight figures. It's a good one.

Now I actually have a follow up question. I want to stay on this vein of being a podcaster and then I want to shift the focus to being on other people's podcasts and some of the strategies you have around that. But as far as your podcasts go, what advice do you have for people who want to get, you know, bigger guests on their show, bigger names? I mean, you know, we have access to a handful of eight figure businesses, but you know, not enough to do a consistent podcast on it. So I'm kind of curious how you get those connections and how you reach out to those kinds of people.

Well, you know, it's, it's really interesting that.

I will say this, that I had thought we might be able to just simply attract these types of folks to the show, but reality is almost to a guest, it's been a referral. It's been a referral into someone. Once I put out to my network the type of people that we're looking for. Yeah, I can't, off the top of my head, I don't think that there's been anyone that we've been able to approach directly. It's all come through warm introduction and.

That'S pretty much how we get our current guests as well. And if we go back to anyone listening who wants to start their own podcast, just think about the networking potential of what you're doing. For yourself, you're surrounding yourself with all these, you know, 10 figure plus or 8 figure, sorry plus, you know, business owners. Just think about how that's expanding your network and if someone wanted to start their own podcast for just that sole purpose alone.

Yeah, it's, and I will say this also, which is, you know, there, there is definitely an ulterior motive here for me, which is, number one, I mean, I've been in business for a long time and, and I've played at a certain level and my goal is to play on a much bigger level and by developing these relationships with what I would call certainly entrepreneurial influencers. Some of them are not necessarily influencers in terms of having big social media followings or something like that, but they're certainly influencers in the world of, you know, in the corporate world. It's given me an opportunity to have these people on my Rolodex. And so when I've got the next big idea, which I do, and I'm working on that, I've got folks that I can turn to now who actually have access to people that can help make this happen. Right. And so even though I've had access to amazing people in the past, you know, to create a business that has a half billion or billion dollar type valuation and get to that unicorn status, you've got to be playing in a different sandbox.

Yep. I love it. And this is, yeah, I can only imagine what you got, you know, in store there, but just the network growing is going to support anything you have in the future. So let's get into, Matt, did you want to shift over to getting on other people's podcasts and kind of going down that vein a bit, or did you have something else?

Yeah, well, no, I think that's, that's probably a good shift. There's a few other, like, little random discussions that we could, we could circle back around to in a couple of minutes. But one of the things that you mentioned was this concept of this thousand dollar funnel. You basically told us that every time you go on a podcast like this one, you know how to basically turn that into at least $1,000. Can you sort of explain that and what that is?

Yeah, you know, so it's interesting. Again, it kind of goes back to the conversation around how many downloads do you have on your show and are you able to, you know, to really monetize that? Is podcasting worth it? And this, that and the other. And what I have found over the years, I mean, I've been a guest on.

I'D say over over 500 shows in the last three, three, four years. And so a lot of what I've realized over, over this period of time here is, you know, it's all well and good to be able to get that credibility and be able to get that authority and be able to get that visibility. At the end of the day, you're in business, right? I mean, you need to be able to generate revenue. And so.

What occurred to me is this is really, for lack of a better term, you know, an advertising platform, so to speak. Not that we want to look at it in that way in terms of like, oh, you know, I'm just here trying to hock my wares to you, but if you find interest, like we talked about my book what Is yous what? As an example, and if you want to figure out what your what is or you know, someone who needs to figure it out, et cetera, you know, then maybe in your mind you're thinking, well, geez, man, I'm going to go out and I'm going to grab that book, I'm going to see what that, what is your what framework is all about, and so on and so forth. And so if I've done my job as a guest, I've already planted that seed where you'll go out and you'll get that book, right? So the point being that this is an opportunity here for me to not just have a fun conversation with you guys, but as a guest on a show to really bounce folks into my ecosystem so that we can begin to actually have a conversation and I can begin to add value to you. And at some point, if you feel like there's a product, program or service that I offer that will help you solve a particular problem, then you can invest in that. But that only can happen if I'm able to bounce you into my ecosystem so that we can have that conversation. And that's really what occurred to me a few years ago is it's a lot like, kind of like, and again, I don't mean it this way, but it's kind of like an hour long commercial. And would you, would you put a commercial on television and not have a call to action, right? Not have some way for folks to actually move forward with your company or with you? And of course the answer is no, right? And so what I created over the course of the last couple years specifically is this thousand dollars funnel, and I call it the Thousand Dollar Funnel because basically every time that I appear on a show, I average about $1,000 in immediate revenue. Now, sometimes it's a lot more and sometimes it's a lot less, but it's automated immediate revenue that doesn't include anything on the long tail, which would be the offering of additional products, programs or services that are higher end. And so, long story short, if we're talking about the thousand dollar funnel as an example here through, you know, like we just talked about what is your what, Then an example of a thousand dollar funnel would be I put people over to whatisyourwhat.com invite them to grab a free copy of the entire book. Once they get that book, I then offer them a different version of the same resource. So in this case, the ebook is free. A hardcover copy is the exact, you know, a different version of the exact same resource. They pay for shipping and handling. Then there's an upsell into what I call the reinvention workshop online course, which is basically a third version of the exact same resource where it's me taking a small room full of people through the what is your what? Process. And we videotaped it and recorded it and broke it down into modules and we sell that as the back end upsell offering that immediate $1,000 funnel. And what ends up happening is, let's just say on average we get about 100 leads per show. It's actually about 250 on most of the shows that I'm on. But on average we generate about 100 leads per show. So of those 100 people, about 20% of them, once they opt in to grab a free copy of what is your what in this case may. I've got other thousand dollar funnels as well, Depending on what we're talking about on the show. But in this case, if they grab what is your what they pay? Well, nothing, right? So it's free to get that free ebook. 100 people come on the list. About 20% of them consistently will buy the hardcover copy. Now, we don't charge for the book, we just charge for shipping and handling a la Brendon Burchard, the Brendon burchard model there. And about 20% of the people will say, yes, we charge 799. So do we make money on that? Not really. I mean, you make about a buck 20. But reality is that going from just kind of being this passive listener to being an active customer, even if they just spend $1 with you, is kind of like going from 0 to 98 on a 100 point bar graph. I mean, it's that big of a deal when somebody pulls out their wallet and spends even $1 with you. So at $7.99, let's just call it 8 bucks. If 20% of the 100 people say yes, which again, our numbers show that that's pretty consistent and that's $160 in immediate revenue. But what's interesting is then about 25% of those people will take the upsell on that one time only offer to get the Reinvention workshop online course for just 49 bucks. So that's five people then out of the 20 who said yes, who pay 49 bucks for it. So that's an additional $250. So 250 plus 160 is 410. And that was based on 100 people. So if you just multiply that out by two and a half to get to 250, that's how we get to about $1,000 in revenue. And that's why I call it the $1,000 funnel.

That is so simple. And we're actually starting to implement that for ourselves as well.

Yeah, no, actually, I had a question about that. Now, when. When you drive somebody from somebody's podcast, when you're a guest on the show, do you create unique landing pages for everybody or do you just funnel them all to the same landing page?

Yeah, that would be super smart, wouldn't it? No, the answer is if I'm talking about personal development or self help. And again, we go through the what is your what? Framework. And I teach people how to discover their gift as best as I can in a short period of time and understand the vehicle that they'll use to share that gift and then the people that they're most compelled to serve. And I share stories of people who have discovered their what and are changing the world as a result. And people are like, oh, man, okay, I'm going to grab this book. I want to figure out my what is etc. Well, then I'll send them to what is your what.com? i don't have a. I should have. Right. A specific page set up for each show, but I don't. That's. That's the long answer to that question.

So do you actually have a way of knowing which podcast drove which people? Do you have any. So sort of tracking for that or just. You just kind of know that on average, this is what we're going to get off of podcasts.

Yeah. And the answer is I don't know specifically which shows they're coming from. Definitely an idea. Like, I mean, for This I should have whatisyourwhat.com hustle. Right. Or something like that. But I don't, and I won't.

You're doing good. Good is good enough.

Right, Right. But reality is that if I send people to what is your what.com the only people that we send to there? Because again, I don't do any other advertising, save for a few Facebook ads when I'm like, in the middle of a product launch or something like that. So if somebody goes to whatisyourwhat.com they have picked that up through one of my podcast interviews.

Got it. That makes sense. Now, with the actual funnel, so basically, they opt in to get a free copy of the ebook or the PDF version, essentially. Then the first upsell is the printed version for $7.99, essentially, just pay the shipping costs. And then you have after that, if they bought the book, then they get the $49 course. That's sort of videos of a live training of you actually teaching what was in the book.

Correct.

So have you tested different price points? I'm wondering if that $49 course, you know, have you sort of tested the limit of what kind of pricing works in this funnel?

Yeah, we tested it at 29, and it did. Did well. We tested it at 49, and the numbers were very, very similar to 29, and we tested 97 and it fell off. So we. We didn't test anything other than that. I mean, we could do like 57 or, you know, we, like, we could do this till the cows come home.

But.

But after we tested it at 97 and at 29 and we saw that there was a pretty dramatic difference, $49 is where we landed. Got it.

Makes sense. Okay. Well, yeah, yeah, I think we're thinking, because we're like, we have a $300 product. Yeah. It's like, it might not fly with this funnel, but it's worth a test.

Yeah, well, you know, and reality is, you could do. You could do a condensed version of that $300 product. Right. So. So what you could do is you could have the free. Whatever it is. That is kind of the highlight. Right. Sort of a high level needs to add value. I mean, look, it all starts with the lead magnet. I mean, if you don't. In my way of thinking, your lead magnet has to do. It has to meet three criteria. I mean, number one, of course, it has to be free. Right. I mean, it's got to be free for. For the recipient to get, but it's also got to be Free for you to deliver. Right. You don't want to get into like these, you know, sending out thumb drives or CDs or anything of that nature. Right. So it's got to be free. Number two, it obviously has to further the conversation. So if you're talking like, if I'm talking about podcasting, and we have something called the ultimate directory of podcasters, which has 670 leading podcasters in a, you know, really nicely done description. We even give you their email address and whatnot if you want to reach out and send so on. So if I'm on a show talking about podcasting and just the medium, new media, et cetera, and then I turn around and say, hey, go grab a free copy of what is your. What people are going to be like, what are you talking about? You know, like, it just, it has to further the conversation, number two. But also, number three, it also, it just has to be a brain dead simple. Yes. Right. I mean, we give people the entire book for free. And so that page consistently converts at around 80% Adobe. And one of the reasons why it converts so high is because it's just a brain dead simple. Yes. It's like, you know, you gotta remember people have a, in their mind, there's, there's a cost, right, that's involved in terms of I need to provide my name and email address to get this. That's the cost. Do I really want to be on another email list? Do I really want to, you know, just get inundated? It's like they're thinking in their minds, I really want to provide my name and email on this. And, and if it's just something that's kind of okay, well, your conversion rate is going to be pretty low. But in this case, because we give them the entire book and if I've done my job of getting them interested in getting the book, well, then it certainly makes sense that, okay, fine, this guy's going to give me the whole book. I was going to go out and buy it anyway. That's a pretty easy yes. Right. And so that's the third criteria of what I think really you need to think about in terms of the lead magnets that you put out there is, does it meet those three criteria? Is it free for you and them? Does it further the conversation? Isn't it just. Is just a brain dead simple? Yes. Hell yes. Right. To provide their name and email to get it. And if you meet those three criteria, then in the next step there's, you could do something like maybe give them A third of whatever that program is. And if that really whets their appetite, then say, hey, here's the whole thing. That's a way that you could do it.

I love it. Yeah. And I love the whole. If it's not a hell, yes, it's a no little cynicism.

Yeah. Well, there you go.

But, yeah, no, it's an amazing little framework you have there. And I think any business owner or. Yeah. Anyone trying to get on podcast to see it as an advertising vehicle, obviously giving value in the process, like you are when done tactfully. And then if you have a killer little funnel like this, opt in, then, I mean, get on as many podcasts as you can.

Yeah, no, I had a guy named Ben settle on the show. You may be familiar with him. I had him on a couple years ago, and one of the questions I asked was, how. How have. How have you grown? He has a print newsletter, and I was asking him how he grew his print newsletter so fast to so many people. And he essentially said his number one way for growing his newsletter, which is getting on other people's podcasts, he said it's endorsed traffic. It's basically, you go on these people's shows, and there's this, like, implied endorsement of. Because I'm on this person's show, the person who does the show is essentially endorsing me and my product. And that has led to the most amount of traffic and the most amount of sales of people getting on his newsletter. And, you know, that was. That was probably two years ago that I talked to him about that, and that was a complete shift for me. Just that concept of, holy crap, like, going on podcasts isn't just a traffic source. It is an endorsed traffic source. It's a traffic source where this person's followers are listening to every word this person says and is taking the advice.

Yeah, yeah. And reality is, it's no different than when you speak on someone's stage. You know, I mean, if somebody hands you that microphone to speak on their stage, it's an honor, and it's a privilege, and you got to treat it that way. And it's no different than being a guest on someone's show. I mean, you guys have been hustling for years, and so reality is, I have to treat it as an honor and a privilege. And if I don't, you know, of course, podcasting is a fairly small world, and. And you'll let people know that, hey, this guy's kind of a jerk, and you don't want to have him on your show and the number of opportunities are going to be less and less and less for me. But the truth is that you've spent years cultivating this relationship with your audience and they trust you. And so when you hand someone the mic and say, hey, here's someone that you should be listening to, then if that person, like myself, if I say, you know, go to whatisyourwhat.com and grab a free copy of that book, then you're ostensibly saying to your audience, hey, this guy is someone you can trust. And as such, as you said, it's endorsed traffic. So I think that's part of the reason also why our opt in rates are so high is because it's not cold traffic. It's already an implied endorsement just by having me on the show.

Yeah, no, you're totally right. And we've experienced just a couple people who've definitely shown signs of pitching on other podcasts that we've turned away nice nicely.

I mean, pitching is not necessarily a bad thing on podcasts. When your entire episode is nothing but a pitch, that's when it gets a little frustrating.

So, yeah, just to you guys listening, definitely make sure that you're approaching it the way that Steve does here, because that's the way to do it. I'm curious, and this is one of our points, since I think it's a good lead. Way here is what's like your number one recommendation on folks. Maybe they haven't got on pod, they haven't been on podcasts in the past. How do they get on? What's the best way to get in there?

Well, reality is, in the same way that we find guests for our show through relationships, the best way for you to get onto a show is to put it out to your network to ask if they know of anyone who has a podcast that is looking for guests, and to ask for an intro. I mean, that would be a warm intro on the other side of the equation, right? I mean, reality is you guys are always looking for great guests. I mean, we're always looking for great guests on both reinvention radio and beyond eight figures. But the truth is that it works the other way as well. Not only do we go out to our networks and ask for people that folks know who would be a good guest, but you can also do it the other way around, which is as a potential guest, you can go out to your network and say, hey, who do you know that has a podcast that you can introduce me to?

Right?

So it can certainly work that way as well. And at the end of the day, that's one of the reasons why.

We'Re such big believers in the power of relationships. Right. And just knowing the power of an active reflection referral network is almost second to none in terms of being able to connect with the exact people that you need at the exact moment in time. And it may not be today that you're ready, and it may not be tomorrow, but at some point, if you have a real relationship with an influencer who has a high visibility platform and the time is right, like maybe you're releasing a new book or you've got a live event or whatever it might be, and you need to, I don't want to say call in a favor, but at least float the idea there that, you know, hey, I'd love to come on your show and chat about X, Y and Z. At least that door will be open because you already have a relationship with them.

Yeah. And I was. I was hoping that you'd give me pretty simple answer like that, but it's so powerful. It's just. Don't overcomplicate it. Just reach out to your network and then that will expand over time.

Yeah. And you know, of course, if you can get into an environment with.

Let's just look, you can do this in a million different ways. I mean, there's people with YouTube channels, there's people with blogs or people with email lists. My buddy Mike Phil same has.

Something that he calls the marketers cruise. And so every year, you know, he puts a whole bunch of people on a boat who are potential joint venture partners for one another, and they all get to connect, connect and meet and hang out and develop real relationships. I mean, if you're in that space, it's a great place to find partners. Right. I mean, like we do the New Media Summit, which is an event that you guys actually are at, Right. Where we bring in 40 leading podcasters and we give 150 attendees the opportunity to meet them and develop real relationships with them and actually pitch the podcasters on who they are and what they do and literally get booked on the spot.

Yep. Yeah. And I think that's where we wanted to take this actually is to the New Media Summit and kind of what that is and kind of the benefits for folks listening here.

Yeah, I mean, it's what's interesting is having now pod being have done podcasting for a number of years, and as I said.

We continually look for great guests to feature on Reinvention Radio. And now with beyond eight figures and the more that I got into the podcasting world and met more podcasters, what I realized is that a lot of podcasters actually have a harder time than you might think, finding really good guests to be on their shows. And so when someone looks really good on paper, it's like, oh, man, this guy would be great for my show. And then you get them on the mic and they're like, they're just absolute duds and they sound awful, and they just really didn't add a whole lot of value and so on. And so when we get pitches as podcasters just by email, or people send me one sheets, et cetera, that's all well and good, but the truth is it's really hard to be able to tell if that person actually would be a good guest just by paper alone. And so that was really the impetus for starting the New Media Summit. It was just born out of the need, the necessity for us to find really good guests. And then as I began, as I said, speaking to other podcasters, I found that they were having the same challenges. And what's really interesting is as we began marketing the first New Media Summit, it just became crystal clear that getting onto shows is something that a lot of coaches and authors and speakers and holistic practitioners and, you know, solopreneurs and small business owners that they were interested in also. And there really was no forum with which to meet the podcasters in this way. I mean, you have podcast events, but those are mostly for podcasters. This event is completely different, and it really just gives that. That coaching, author, speaker, holistic practitioner, small business owner, etc. You know, that. That opportunity to develop real relationships with these podcasters and to pitch them and get booked on their show. So it's actually really a win win for both sides because we find great guests and our attendees have the opportunity to get featured on a lot of shows. Matter of fact, oftentimes people who come to the New Media Summit leave with dozens of bookings in hand.

Yeah. And I could see it as a win win for just everyone there. Like you said, the attendees, but also the icons like Matt and I. And thanks for the invite there, because I know it's just. Everything is just going to be a lot of value for both sides there. And it's. Yeah, it is a very unique type of event. And honestly, when you asked us originally, we're like, we don't know what we're getting into, but it sounds fun, it sounds unique, and we're a game, you know?

Yeah. And I mean, of course there's other sides of the coin there as well. In terms of what we do with the event, a big part of what we do there is also teach folks how to really leverage and monetize the power of the medium and even for existing podcasters like yourselves, because we have 40 podcasters there who are all sharing best practices and strategies and tactics and whatnot. Even the podcasters who come there is what we call icons of influence. They leave, you guys will leave with a lot of knowledge and ideas and initiatives to implement that will really help to build your biz for sure.

Definitely.

Now when is the next one? I know there's the one coming up in Austin here, but this episode will actually be released right as we're coming home from that. When's the next one following the Austin one?

So the next one that we're doing is February in Florida, and we're doing it at a really nice resort there called Innisbrook, which is actually where they host some PGA events. So I think we're going to do our first New Media Summit Golf Open as well on that one. But it's February 21st through the 23rd just outside Tampa, Florida.

Nice. All right, Matt, shore up your golf game. Got a lot of work to do.

Probably not going to happen. The shoring up the golf game, not the I'm going to definitely attend the golf thing, is probably not going to happen.

I have a couple other questions. It's kind of circling back around here, but you mentioned that you make about $18 per subscriber per year with your email list. Is that with your podcast or your email list?

Well, that's with the email list, but as I said, a good chunk of the folks who are on the list come from podcasts. So this year. Yeah, I'm not sure I got it now. I got to run the numbers in my head, but I was just using broad numbers. We should be this year. I think this year we'll probably settle in right around 15 bucks. This year it's been as high as 18, usually around 12. This year I think we'll be around 15.

Love that. So, so what, you know what, what is this system to. I'm assuming it's kind of the same system, right? The get on podcast, send them to the link to get the book and then kind of the similar funnel. What, what is the what, what does that, that sort of follow up sequence look like? Because you mentioned the funnel. So they get the, you know, the free ebook, the $8 Just Pay shipping book, then the course. Now, you know, are There is there like email follow ups that go out that try to sell them on that stuff. If they, they don't take it, is that kind of what the, you know, what happens afterwards or is that their kind of one opportunity to grab those things from you?

Yeah, that would be smart. We could follow up with the hey, you didn't grab this but you should thing. That's, that's actually pretty smart there. But really what ends up happening is after they go through our indoctrination sequence where there are other offers. Like for instance, we do build out custom thousand dollar funnels for people. We have a two day launch your podcast intensive where we take people from zero to launch in two days if they want to start their own show. Of course we have the new media Summit, we have other programs like profiting from podcasts and launch your podcast. And then our bigger ticket items are the icon. We have an icon maker year long program which includes guidance and accountability and done for you and done with you services including the thousand dollar funnel and the launcher podcast intensive and then we have the icon maker elite level program which includes all of that plus my personal guidance. Right. So between the online programs and the live events and, and the year long guidance, accountability, done with you, done for you programs, et cetera.

Those are some of the things that we end up inviting people into. And you know, at the events, we sell tickets to the events, we have sponsors for the events. So that's about where again, I don't want to sit here and say that it's all directly related to each individual subscriber in terms of each individual subscriber investing $15 with us this year. But if you run it out over all of the revenue against the number of subscribers, that's how it breaks down.

Love it.

I like it. And it seems I'm just getting an essence of this from some of the responses like the stuff that Matt will say with the follow ups and the custom pages and all that. Would it be true to say that you have a fairly simple business model? Obviously there's complex things like running an event. I know that can be a total shit show for some people.

But the fact is it seems like you have a simple enough business and you know where your most effective input is, which is podcast appearing on shows and doing that kind of marketing. Do you think that's like almost a secret to your success to, you know, create this thing and live the life you are now?

Yeah, I mean I'll say this, and I'm not saying this to brag, but we will do.

Well north of.

Million and a half this year. I've got one kind of full time assistant and other than that.

It'S really, it just people who we outsource to as needed for particular skills. You know, whether that's web development or, you know, with the thousand dollar funnel, we include graphic design so we actually create your lead magnets and whatnot. But every, you know, every.

Person on our team, with the exception of my almost full time assistant, is just an independent contractor who comes on as needed. And you know, reality is I'm involved in other things as well. I mean, I'm still chairman of Liquor.com, i don't have any active day to day with it, but I am involved on a board level. I still have some real estate development. I've done about 50 odd million dollars in real estate development over the years, so I still have some properties as well. But yeah, man, I work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and pretty consistently I'm off on Mondays and Fridays. So keep it pretty simple.

It's the best life. I mean, that's why I wanted to ask that question. I'm like, it doesn't have to be complicated.

Well, you're kind of at where we're trying to get to. So with the agency thing that you're doing, I guess it's not really an agency, but the thousand dollar funnel that you actually build for people, are you involved in that at all or is that pretty much systematized and off your plate too?

It is systematized. It is off my plate. I do have the woman who handles all of our tech when needed, is the woman who we do work with to do this. And she and her team create the thousand dollar funnel for our clients. So she reports to me in terms of what's going on with the clients and their progress and so on. And we occasionally strategize if she needs some guidance on how to help them. But she's really good at what she does and so she and her team handles that whole process.

I love it.

So cool. All right, well, is there anything before we wrap up that's kind of on your chest about podcasting or this whole discussion we have here before we kind of do some final questions?

Well, you know, I would simply say that podcasting can be a really good medium for visibility, for authority, for credibility, for lead generation, for revenue and so on. But you really have to, if you're going to stay in the game, you have to focus on something that truly puts fire in your soul. And so for me, one of the reasons why I really love our new show beyond eight figures is because just being able to sit down with billionaires and CEOs of $100 million plus businesses and newly minted millionaires and retired founders, etc. It just, I love those conversations. Like, those are the kinds of conversations I could have all day, every day. And so if you're going to get into the space, and I personally, I believe that everyone should have their own show. I think it is something that you should think about doing because no matter how narrow or small your niche is, there is an audience there for you. And I could share countless examples on that, but I won't at this moment. But I would simply say that having your own show is certainly something that you should be thinking about. And at the very least, start out by guesting on shows and maybe come to the New Media Summit and pitch the podcasters and let's get you booked on the spot.

So cool.

Now, one sort of quick follow up question to what you just said. This is more of a curiosity thing and your opinion on it. Do you think there's room for shows that don't really have a specific niche? And the reason I'm asking that is one of my favorite podcasts is the Joe Rogan show, and he doesn't seem to really have a specific niche. He just kind of has really interesting people on and just chats with them. And that's always been like my dream is just to have a show that wasn't focused on just business people, just celebrities, just, you know, any, any specific thing, just interesting people. But my thinking has always been, yeah, but there's. It would never get any listeners if you don't know who your target is.

Yep. And I will say.

Under no uncertain terms that the answer is absolutely not. And if Joe Rogan started his show today, or if Lewis Howe started his show today, or if Johnny Lee Dumas started his show today, I think they would have a very hard time competing with NPR and ESPN and all, you know, the Tony Robbins of the worlds, et cetera, who have these massive platforms and then drive people to the podcast.

I agree. No, that's. It's an interesting way that this whole shifted so fast because I'm just looking, I mean, a lot of like Lewis House, he didn't start that long ago. Like we knew him before the podcast and, and then now to see where he's at, I'm like, holy shit. But it's impressive. I mean, there's always an opportunity. So he's got to look at what we can do now, and there's still a ton that can be done, so.

Yeah, absolutely. So the answer, you know, the answer is no, I don't think that a general show would work today unless you already have a huge, huge platform and you're just driving people to the podcast from the other platform.

Yeah. So the way to do it, if you want to do something like that, is essentially build a name for yourself and then kind of lateral over to it. Kind of like you're seeing it with stand up comedians all the time. People who had TV shows and been in movies and stuff like that, they all seemed. Yeah, Dax Shepard's another good example.

Yeah, Tax is funny.

His podcast is great, actually. But, you know, he's somebody that got famous over in this world, probably mostly for marrying Kristen Bell, but he also did some movies and stuff somewhere cable. But, you know, he. He grew, you know, he grew his platform and then lateraled over and was able to pretty much kickstart himself in the top 100 podcasts because of the platform he built outside of podcasting.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's what we've been able to do with beyond eight Figures. I mean, we've been able to crack the top hundred here in our first week. And I'm honestly a little surprised that it hasn't ranked better given that we've got 110 reviews, I think now on itunes alone in the first week. And so I'm a little surprised it isn't stronger. But reality is that's. That's what we're looking at today in terms of competition.

Yeah, no, I noticed you broke it. I was like, holy crap, that was quick.

And one of mine and Joe's bucket list goals now is to. Is to be on the beyond the eight figures podcast.

There you go.

But we know, we know there's certain criteria we have to meet first, so we're. We gotta pass that first milestone.

We'll get there. Yeah, man, Sounds good.

All right, Steve, really quick, I know we're having you for a little longer here. What's a good book that you would recommend something you refer to often?

Oh, man. You know, I will say that I've consistently referred people, well, to the old tried and true guerrilla marketing from Jay Conrad Levinson. And Jay actually gave one of his last keynotes before he passed in 2012 at an event that I used to run called Internet Profits Live. P R O P H E T S. And just an extraordinary man. And so much of what he taught in that book still holds true to this day. Awesome.

I've actually never read that one.

Oh, you got to read it.

I don't think it's been recommended.

Still great for sure.

Awesome. Steve. Well, what's the best place for folks to learn more about you? Your summit podcast, all that stuff?

Yeah, I mean, there's obviously a lot that we've covered there. I'd say probably just go and listen to either reinvention radio or beyond 8ft figures. And if you survive that and still like me, then probably go to Steve Olsher, o l s h-e r.com and I said, what is your what.com? enough in this interview that I don't think I need to repeat it anymore.

We'll put it all in the show notes so people, you can. You can go link over to that or click over through there. Sounds good, Steve. This has been awesome. And we probably will have a lot more topics to discuss after we come back home from the summit, so be prepared for a possible. Possible round two.

Yeah, man. Sounds good.

Right on, man. Appreciate you. See you.

All right, guys, thanks.

All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So, the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.