Susie Moore - Stop Seeking Approval And Attain True Self-Confidence

When you're in a good mood, isn't everything easy?

Oh, my God. It's like flow.

Yeah. Communicating. Dealing with the kind of urgent, important stuff that's been, like, on the back burner for a long time. And I feel like, you know, sometimes we forget this. We. And we overcomplicate it. We think that no knowledge is the thing, and there's more knowledge out there that I need to acquire, and that can be true because you always want to get shortcuts from people who, you know, who are a little bit further ahead. But I feel as if, you know, knowledge. If knowledge were the thing, we'd all have six packs, right?

True.

But really well invested in stock market. Like, we would all would be doing all these kind of things that the information's available, but it's the most important thing, truly is. Like, how are we feeling? Like, how are we feeling about ourselves? Are we giving ourselves credit? Are we giving ourselves compassion? Are we allowing things to be easy? This. I mean, I think this is, like, the key to everything becoming far simpler in our lives and allowing us to be more successful.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flow chart podcast with your boys Mount Wolf and Joe Fear. Wiki, wiki Wiki.

Hey. Hey. What's happening?

Not much. We're in lockdown still.

Thanks for the news. Yeah, I didn't know that. Hey.

The listeners who are hearing this episode on whatever date it's coming out don't know the status of our lives on the day that we recorded it.

This is true. And we're getting aggressive with our recording schedules because of lockdown, because I feel like a lot of people just have some extra time and it's. And we're getting ahead of it. Maybe when lockdown frees up, we'll just take a month off of recording or something and be free.

Quite possibly.

We'll see. I don't know. That's not really the reason we're recording a lot. There's just, like, really cool people getting introduced to us, and Susie Moore, who we chatted with today, is one of them. And I had a great time in this chat. I mean, she. It's just like a freeing feeling, you know, chatting to someone like her. It's like, yeah, there's just like. It's not. Life ain't that hard, man. Business ain't that hard, you know?

And she has such a fun energy to her, too. You're just talking to her and you feel energized just from the personality coming through the Internet waves that are coming at us that you can, you know. You get the vibe off of her.

Yes. You get the vibe even though none of us are together in person. No, we're trying to keep the vibe natural. We're trying to end these weird times.

Yes.

Yeah. So Susie, I mean, she. She came to us with. Well, she. She just released a book which actually, like, caught my eye. And, you know, stop checking your likes is what it's called. I'm like, wait, what. What does that mean? And then that intrigued me. But then, you know, actually getting to know her through all the research and stuff, I was like, oh, this is actually really fascinating stuff.

And.

And then the second she started talking on the podcast, you know, she was just basically, like, breaking down basically all the limiting beliefs that a lot of us carry around unknowingly, and then has very simple flips and things to spin. It's like, yeah, if you're just caught up in something, it's like, it's probably something you're just anchoring onto from the past that you really shouldn't be because it's not serving you.

Yeah. So Susie, she runs a media company that helps people get in the media, and she has actually been on things like Oprah and, I believe, like the Today show and. And things like that through some of the stuff she does through the media. But most of what we're talking about in this episode is how to get over the need for approval from others. And that's sort of. That's sort of the concept of the stop checking your likes. But it's also something that holds a lot of people back from growing their business as big as they could grow it, from pivoting their business in a direction that they could pivot it, but they're scared of what other people might think of what they're doing. It's, you know, this. The need for approval stops people from having conversations that they know they should have. So a lot of the conversation that we had today is around this sort of, you know, the sort of damage. Not really damage it does seeking approval, but how to get beyond seeking approval so you can just, like, open up and be free and run the business you want to run and who gives a shit what other people think?

And drink whenever you want.

No. And start drinking at 10:30 like we did on this. No, we didn't, actually.

No, we didn't.

But we did touch on. On. On some PR strategy, and she gave, like, some really, really good gold nuggets on how to get in the media. Like, how to get in touch with the right people and get on the media. So there's. There's sort of like two kind of topics in this episode that you're going to get a ton of gold from. It's the media topic and the topic of. Of getting over the need for approval from others.

Shit, man. Like, that. That will open up so much, you know, and just. And I love her approach is just like, just go big. Like, why would you have these, like, things. Hold yourself back if it's like, your credibility in quotes, you know, or these accolades. Accolades. Accolades. There you go. I'm thinking of alco accolades. Yeah. And, like, you'll just hear a story. It's just really cool. And that's why it's like the second one. I'm like, dad, I like her. I like the way she thinks. Like, this is. This is how you do big things without making it feel like the pressure of that's a big thing. But you're, like, breaking down barriers that weren't really barriers, but you just kind of limited yourself and it's just you.

So, yeah, I think accolade should be a new term that we start using for the cool things that you did while drunk.

Those are alkalades. Alkalades. Okay. Should we start that on the next podcast and just be really drunk on the podcast? No, I don't think that'll go well.

Yeah, yeah, we could do that with selective guests, like we did with Aaron Fletcher, like, two years ago, which is.

Crazy, but I don't remember the last time I was drunk. Anyway, me neither. Me neither.

But yeah, some really, really good stuff in this episode. I can't wait to jump over and talk to Susie. But let's talk about Ahrefs real quick.

First, of course, let's talk about our sponsor, Ahrefs. They are amazing, and I feel like they just keep getting more amazinger.

More amazinger. Yeah.

Maybe it's from the accolades that they do on their side sometimes. No, I can't frame them as such. But yeah, Ahrefs. You heard us talk about it. Most likely. And if you haven't.

Don'T wait and actually go hop in on their trial, because it's seven bucks. Seven days of a trial. But it's literally. It gives you the keys to everything. Traffic. And we use that to run our. Figure out our traffic sources and what to target and what to think of or do. It basically takes the thinking out of it and gives you the matrix to look into. And then you're like, oh, okay, that's What I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we use it for finding keywords for Google Ads, YouTube ads.

SEO terms. We want to create content around looking at what competitors are doing and where they're ranking and what keywords they're ranking for. So we can go and try to create content and outrank our competitors. There's so much stuff that we do with ahrefs. There's a tool in it to find out what. What content is trending on social media among Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn.

That's a cool one.

You could see what content is, like, rising the ranks of the social media platforms and go create similar content to capitalize on, like, what people are talking about right now. So much cool stuff. So that's $7, seven days over at a h r e f s dot com.

That is a H R E F S.

Nice. And we have notes. We always have free notes for you. Free for two weeks of this kind of.

Steve. They're $10 for Steve.

Oh, okay. Steve. Well, you got to email us because, I mean, don't go to this link that we're about to give you. That's free. It's not made for Steve's.

Steve.

Steve.

Yeah, just the one Steve. The other.

You have to decide which Steve you are, though, so work that out amongst yourselves.

He knows who he is.

Oh, he knows. Okay. Talking to you, Steve. All right, Steve. So ignore this message. But for everyone else, that's not that one Steve. On this planet or universe, because we were everywhere. Pluto even is. We take the notes for you. And there are a lot of. I mean, as we were saying, we go deep on this one in multiple different things, in processes. So if you go to hustleandflowchart.com comp c o m p. Like, blanked out for a second. Hustle and flowchart. Yeah. Hustleandflowchart.com comp. No, I forgot what the word was.

I was like, what am I saying?

So if you go there. Yeah, it's two weeks of this episode going live. You'll get the episode notes for this episode, and if it's past two weeks, you're not going to see them there. So that's why you got to be quick. You'll see some other notes, so they're cool, too. Check them out. Hustleandflowchart.com comp.

Yep. Or you can text the word comp to 38470 and we'll send them to you through the phones. No, we'll send you a text message and tell you how to get them.

There you go.

So, yeah, 38470, text the word comp or go to hustleandflowchart.com comp. We'll send you the notes.

Bam. All right, let's get over to Susie. Susie, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Thank you, Joe. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here with you. Oh, thank you for having me.

You're very welcome. Yeah. And our mutual buddy Ron introduced us, and that was. Yeah. Not too long ago, but, yeah, he was just like, you gotta talk to Susie. She is absolutely the one that's doing some cool stuff. And you have an amazing, I think, a very timely message and a book. So it's like a. I think it's just, like, really good right now in this weird world that we're all living in, at least at the time of this recording. It's weird with the lockdown and whatnot, but yeah, you're out in Miami. So we were just talking like, oh, it's actually nice there in San Diego. It's beautiful here. Finally. Too bad we can't really go out much. I know. Yeah.

Like, as it gets into the summer months, we're gonna.

Our.

Our test of will is really gonna, you know, come into play when it. When it's summer here in San Diego and everybody wants to go to the beach.

Yes, I know, I know. We can just keep crossing our fingers, I guess.

Yep. That's all we can do. And, hey, it's a perfect time to work on a lot of the stuff we're gonna talk about here, because I feel like if you can kind of really nail this down really well, I think it's going to take you out into the world even stronger.

But let's talk about you and also. And then we'll get into the topic. So give us a little background about you because you've done a lot and you've done things with Oprah and massive media and really changed a bunch of lives. All different age ranges, which is really interesting as well. Give us a little. Little scoop of that and then we'll dig into it.

Yes, Well, I mean, my background is corporate. I used to work in tech. I used to sell programmatic video software. Very sexy. Right?

And, you know, after doing that for, you know, over a decade, I always just wanted to work for myself, and I started side hustling. Working as a coach grew my business using the media because I wanted the quickest way. I wanted the quickest, most credible, free way to get people to know about me. And I Started using the media early, before I even had a website or really anything to speak of or even present when I still had my full time job. And I've kept going since then. And I think that, you know, consistency is really underrated. Growing a business like the fundamentals of what go into it isn't sexy. It's just kind of repeating the same thing over and over again. And using media has grown my business. It's still my biggest growth tool and I'm delighted to be able to teach it now to people who want to be out there in a bigger way and use it to sell the product mix, which I've kind of come up with and I'm always refining over the years.

Yeah, no, that's like you said, consistency. It could be sometimes the most boring thing to do. The same thing in and out and of course there's systems and processes and stuff, but still. Yeah, it's almost like as an entrepreneur working for yourself that's tough and you think it's like the obvious thing to do, but. Yeah, but that's where the big wins come from. And self improvement, business improvement. All of the above.

Yes. I feel like, and I mean Ron speaks about this too, our friend. It's not the kind of flashy, exciting things that really drive us forward. They're really fun, you know, when they happen. But really it's the quiet stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Right. That most people don't see, they don't appreciate. And this is why not everyone's an entrepreneur if they are not for long. Right. Because it's tricky. And if anyone's had a business, you know, a profitable business for like over three or four years, I just applaud them. I'm just like saluting them around the world because I just know what goes into it and you know, it's a lot. And the most important thing then that we can manage is just our mind, right. Our thoughts staying focused. Because if we don't take care of our mind and our thoughts and maintain our energy and a positive kind of mindset, then everything else is, nothing else is really going to work. So I feel like my only full time job is to manage my mind.

Yeah, I feel like that should be everyone's full time job. At least get it right, get into a very happy place between your ears.

Yeah.

Because yeah, mindset, I mean that just trickles off into every little thing. I mean, yeah, I have a baby in the house and we're all. I know Matt has two kids in his house and we're all locked in together and yeah, stresses can definitely pop up.

It's true, it's true. But like, you know, you know, when you think about it, when you're in a good, when you're in a good mood.

Right.

Let's just say call it a good mood when you're in a good mood. Isn't everything easy?

Oh my God. It's like flow.

Yeah, Communicating, dealing with the kind of urgent, important stuff that's been like on the burner for a long time. And I feel like, you know, sometimes we forget this. We. And we overcomplicate it. We think that no knowledge is the thing and there's more knowledge out there that I need to acquire. And that can be true because you always want to get shortcuts from people who've, you know, who are a little bit further ahead. But I feel as if, you know, knowledge, if knowledge was a thing. But all have six packs, right?

True.

Like really well invested in the stock market. Like we would all. We'd be doing all these kind of things that the information is available. But the most important thing truly is like, how are we feeling? Like, how are we feeling about ourselves? Are we giving ourselves credit? Are we giving ourselves compassion? Are we allowing things to be easy? I think this is the key to everything becoming far simpler in our lives and allowing us to be more successful.

Yeah.

We'Ve had. You might know him, but Kamal Ravikant, he was on here talking about love yourself, like your life depends on it. That was one of his. And yeah, he's. It's. It always seems like the easiest things. You know, things like, oh, just, just, you know, take care of yourself. Self love, self approval. All the, you know, like when I'm, when I'm a little pent up and all that stuff, my wife Heather will be like, hey, be nice to my Joey.

It sounds super corny, but I'm like, yeah, like, but that's true. I need to remember, you know, me.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. It's the same with my husband. I mean, whenever he's like stressed out, I'm like, you know, all you have to do is like, relieve the stress and everything's gonna become. And it's okay. And we all use different methods for this. But the most important is to find your own and to know that it's also okay when negative emotions arise. They're temporary, just like positive emotions and understand that it all passes. I think that just having perspective on this makes life a lot easier.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. Perspective. I think Is the big thing if you live in your bubble, like if you stay in a room or obviously cooped up in your house now, it's kind of tough for a lot of folks, but yeah, I mean, literally just going outside into the sun, jumping around and like, you know, raising your energy, like, I mean, you might look like a crazy person, but who cares? Yeah, do push ups. I don't know, maybe that's more normal looking. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. And you know what? This is so funny. This is where the judgment piece comes in already. Even on small things. It's like what we do, like so much of what we do, we don't even realize it. It's curated, limited.

We do or don't allow ourselves to do things based on what other people are going to think. You know, and it's so interesting. I've realized as a coach that when I work with somebody, anybody, right, say it's, you know, when it comes to, you know, starting a business or growing a business, it's not the failure or the fear of making a mistake that holds us back. We think it is. Right? We think it's like, oh, I don't want to fail. It will be, you know, difficult. I won't be able to, you know, get back to where I was, whatever it may be. Right. We all have failures. We make mistakes in business, it happens. We have setbacks. It's just part of it. Right? We all know that. But the thing that really frightens us and holds us back is our fear of what other people will say or how we'll be judged for our failures. Because human beings, we're resilient. Like how we've just completely adapted to this pandemic and through history, what we've survived, we know that we could get by losing money, making a mistake, having a failed launch, whatever it is. But the thing that stings, that really holds us back is, yeah, but we're all X or Y or strangers on the Internet have to say about it. It's their judgment that holds us back. So I think when we can put judgment in its place, knowing that people aren't obsessed with us, really, they're not. We think that they are. Yeah, they're not. They're just trying to make it through the week, not get divorced, not burn the chicken, like keep the kids alive, pretty much. We're not also obsessed with, with you, like whoever you are. And so I think that we can lose the pressure and know that our self approval. It's like if we like it, if we're okay with it, if we can have confidence in what we're doing and know that that's really all confidence and courage is being willing to experience negative emotion knowing it won't kill you. The worst thing that can happen is a feeling what isn't available to you.

Yeah, I like that. I feel like with, as entrepreneurs, Joe and I have been doing what we do for 13, 14 years now. We've been doing it full time, 11 years. We both sort of quit our day jobs, so to speak, in 2009. And I think one of the things that Joe and I have both struggled with, we've had multiple conversations with this over the years, is that in that 11 year journey, we've run an agency, we've sold info products, we've done coaching, we've done consulting, we've done investing, we've had a podcast, we've run a blog, we've sold e commerce. Like the list goes on and on and on of everything we've experimented with over the last 11 years. And I think the thing that gets in our head is we always have this assumption that like, people are paying attention to that, right? Like we're like, yeah, these people. Like, we're about to launch this new course. But last, you know, two years ago, we were telling people that this is the next best thing and now this is the next best thing. What is everybody going to think of us? And I feel like we really tend to get in our own heads about that as entrepreneurs of this sort of constant course correction. And then we almost avoid course correcting when we know we need to because we're afraid people are going to be paying attention to the fact that we're course correcting and being incongruent, you know?

And guess what? No one cares or remembers, right? No one cares or remembers what they did two years ago, right?

That's true.

And I think about the products that I've taken off my site because they don't sell, right? I take them and no one's like, hey, you were talking about this a while. Like, what happened to that? I mean, no one cares or remembers unless I'm out there talking about it constantly, right? No, I mean, people aren't holding you to anything. And it's a natural evolution to lose products to focus on something else. I think it's not even a correction, right? Like, it's just a. Okay, where to now? And no business is the same. I don't know about you, but I never thought my business would look like it does now. It wasn't my initial intention. No way.

Well, it wasn't for you. Yeah. With tech, you know, being in the video, the tech space there, and now you're over here, like, exactly.

And, like, my business just changes, I feel like, every six months. And that is. I think that's cool. But, yes. I remember before I put out my first YouTube videos, before I started, you know, kind of really selling to my list, I was like, oh, my gosh, what a. And you know what? I tell you? It's only really three or four people maximum. We tend to really care about judging us. You could probably write the names down. I've done this. When I've coached people, I'm like, okay, so you're gonna hold back on doing a thing because of the judgment you might get? Let's just be real. This is what. That's what's holding you back. Right? Who are the people who. And we think we're gonna end up with pages and pages. And I've never really seen it be more than four people. Sometimes it's a parent. Sometimes it's like a frenemy. Sometimes it's, you know, someone close to you who doesn't, like, support you. And it's like, wow, your whole life, like, your whole potential, ambition, the magic that's within you, like, waiting to come out. It's gonna be just stumped by, like, two, three, four people. Like, that's it.

Yeah.

Come on.

Yeah. Because it's so true. And I remind myself this all the time because I. Obviously, we all struggle with this, but, like, a lot of times, like, for myself, I'll keep it in my head and I won't take it to paper, pen to paper, and actually journal on that. Like, you're saying, write the names down. And for me, like, I'll even go a little. I'm sure that you have a whole process maybe on this, but, like, I'll start opening and be like, wait, so why? Or just listing all the reasons out. And then usually if they're on paper, if I'm looking at them, I'm like, well, that's dumb. That's dumb. That doesn't make sense. Like, what the hell is I stressing about?

Yeah, it's true. I mean, it really helps to write it out and just keep it really simple. I mean, one process that I have is called, like, the belief flip formula, which is if you have an area of your life that you're not happy with, right? Whatever. Like, whatever it may be is a relationship, money, like, really anything you have in Traditional psychology, we have the cause and effect model, right? Which is, for example, I'll just use something old school, like my parents were divorced and it was really ugly, which is why I can't get married or find that or trust somebody. So the cause and effect is this happened. And so then this is true now. So the cause was the bad divorce. The effect is an unhappy or an unhappy single person. And what I love to do is flip it because often the effect that it's having means that we don't have to do anything. It means that we don't have to take courage, we don't have to do any work. We can stay safe and small. And what feels protected ironically is not at all, but instead, okay. So the way that I would flip it is saying, okay, maybe being with somebody requires courage and some vulnerability. And that's scary. So let's blame your parents, right? When you flip your cause and effect model, you have no excuses. And it takes some does take courage to do this work. But what then isn't available? Like what you become this unstoppable person because you have even a really good excuse is still an excuse, no matter how justified it sounds, how much sympathy you get for it. It doesn't mean anything. And so when you can lose the beliefs, the causes in your life that you think are holding you back, then I tell you, I mean, you could see changes really quickly.

That actually I like that a lot because yeah, a lot of us will get just so stuck in the cause. Like this thing did it to me. I'm a. You know, like, obviously you're not telling yourself, like, I'm a victim, but that's pretty much what it is. It seems like. So, so, yeah, you flip it to the effect. So it's like an actionable thing. It seems like, yes.

And it's like, well, okay, just because if you think if the cause and effect model were true, that would then have to mean that every. Everyone whose parents had a bad divorce couldn't have a happy marriage.

That's right.

That would have to be true for absolutely everybody. And I'm yet to find a single example where a cause creates an effect. We're so in control. I mean, even in locked indoors at the moment, to be safe, I feel like I have complete control over, first of all, my mind, of course, but even the small corner of the world that I touched, my apartment in Miami, like I have complete power over what happens here. And I'm creating like YouTube content, doing all that boring stuff, like the stuff that we never really want to do with our business. Updating websites, looking at past data for information on my best emails. But, I mean, I feel like I'm in a really good, kind of blessed position.

I mean, would you say that most people are, but they just don't realize it?

Yes. Right. But sometimes that's also a reason to then take a break. And that's fine. It's healthy to take a break if you want to. But I would acknowledge it that way and say, you know what? I love myself enough to give myself a break versus I'm stuck indoors and I can't do anything.

Yeah. And again, yeah, it goes back to that whole cause and effective, but the affecting cause. Yeah.

Because everyone's stuck at home. We're all in the same position. So, like, what's the effect then that it's having? From what I see, people are having very different experiences.

Yeah, no, that's. I mean, it's so true, because I know Matt and I, we've taken this as a massive opportunity for not only the business I know, at least on my side personally as well, to. It's a lot of. I mean, for me, it is actually a lot more inner work is what I've been working through, like breathing techniques and all this journaling and all that stuff. Yeah. But then in the business, like, we're making it stronger than ever now, even with more pivots, adjustments. But, yeah, it's like, if you can. I feel like right now is just a perfect time to really harness everything you feel like is like your leaky bucket all have some leaks in there. It's like, all right, how can we plug these up right now?

Yes, exactly. And I'm doing that. And then I'm also enjoying happy hour whenever I feel like it every day.

There you go.

So you gotta live your life.

Maybe get some wine or something.

Absolutely. I mean, what time is it? 1:28. Not far off.

I guess I should have Bailey's in my coffee. It's only 10:30 here. Why not? Makes podcast day fun. A little. Bailey's left.

10:30 in the morning. We're already drinking.

Let's do it.

This is lockdown protocol.

Judge me on there are no rules.

You know what? There are no rules in quarantine, and there are no rules in life. Like, when you think about it, like, what rules? Okay, the only rule is treat your neighbor how you'd like to be treated. Right? Like, as you treat yourself. That is the only rule. Everything else is really up to us.

I mean, it's so funny and it's so dumb that that seems to be like such a big impactful thing for me at least. But it's so true because it's so simple. And it's like. Like, I feel like we just a lot of us, and maybe it's entrepreneurs. I can only speak for myself, and I know for Matt too. It's like a lot of us feel like we're just like, we have all this stuff we gotta do or like, oh, we have these, like, stringent things that we have these boxes we put ourselves in so can't do that right now or like, that's wrong or. I don't know. It just feels like there's a lot of limitations that high achievers maybe put on themselves can expect of themselves.

I think what I've noticed and look, I've learned so much from being in different masterminds, working with different coaches. Like, I love absorbing the information. And initially, I think when I started my business, I thought, well, there's a way and I'm going to learn it. Like, there's a method here to success. And it has to be whoever I was listening to at the time became then my role model for it. Like, okay, well, it has to be then through Pinterest or it has to be through YouTube or it has to be through like an evergreen funnel or some type of launch model. And you know what I mean. I teach the media. My friends teach all the different platforms. You can have a really successful business with no media. You can have a really no video with no social media. Some of my most successful friends are completely private. They have nothing. And so, I mean, it's just like. Well, I used to think it's almost then confusing because who do you listen to? And this is where you have to stop listening to yourself. You have to get the information's there. I want to take the shortcut. I want to learn from people who have a business that I like. Right. They have a lifestyle that they have. I like it. But I mean, we've done things that. I mean, a couple of my friends recently asked me. They're like, wow, you're so engaged in your Facebook groups. And my. My products are on the lower price of like, everyone has a very different kind of pricing structure, but their courses, et cetera, are far more expensive than mine. And I'm really active in my groups and I. And they kind of asked me about that, I think because it's a bit unusual. And I'm like, I don't believe this boundary stuff, stuff that everyone talks about. And I respect any. Like you. Everyone has to live their life in alignment with who they are. But I'm like, why wouldn't I be extra, like, kind of giving and generous? It feels good. It's fun for me. But you know, there's some wisdom around that. It's like, have boundaries, has to be high ticket for anyone to speak to for more than three seconds. I don't know about that. That's not how I do it. And I don't. And I like doing it my way. This feels good for me. And I think that we're allowed to tap into what feels good and right. And why not create different models then that other people can model that other people can appreciate or perhaps learn from. I just, I really. This, this belief, this kind of awareness that there are no rules has been so freeing for me. And I think it's really helped me kind of level up each time.

Oh, yeah, well, it's literally limitless then at that point. And Matt and I do the same thing with our groups. We have a whole free community and we're in there every single day. And. And I think we've realized like, the value. Our currency is our community. It's our connection to not only our customers or maybe even just subscribers or listeners, but it's also to our peers, people like you that will want to stay in contact with and help and provide value to not expecting anything in return. But that's what's growing our business, growing our network and opportunities. And I don't see it stopping anytime soon. Not on our side.

Well, but isn't it great to kind of. To do it your way? And it's. I mean, I think it's tremendously fun and freeing and isn't freedom the best feeling?

That's it, yeah. Matt, did you have something over there?

Well, I wanted to sort of go back to something we were talking about a couple minutes ago where we were talking about the sort of. When I was talking about how we've had sort of different businesses over the years and we're always in our own heads about the fact that people are noticing that. That people are noticing that we're, you know, one day we're saying this, and the next day we might be. And although maybe they didn't conflict with each other, why do we have this messaging and now this messaging. I feel like that sort of spins off a little bit into the topic of imposter syndrome as well, which is a topic that seems to come up a lot among our community and people we talk to on the show and stuff is. It's a very common thing. But I guess, you know, extrapolating off what you were saying earlier, it probably all still kind of stems from that feeling that we need to be approved by others, because why would we care if others see us as imposter if. If we're not seeking anybody else's approval? I don't know. I was just wondering if you could speak into that a little bit.

Yes, absolutely. I love talking about imposter syndrome because we all have it. I don't care who you are. I know you got it or the only time you don't have it. Right. And I mean, I'm speaking specifically about entrepreneurs here. The only time we don't have it is probably if we're not doing anything right. Anything new.

Yeah. So, like, putting yourself out there in a kind of a bigger way than maybe you're not used to.

Yeah. Think about it. If you feel totally safe, like, yeah, I'm so good. No fear right now. Absolutely 100. Completely relaxed, feeling very un. Fraud. Like.

Well, you probably are doing the same thing. And I'd be interested in the results of that, you know, because whenever you're feeling like, oh, gosh, do I belong here? Am I quite ready? You're doing stuff. Right. I quite. I quite like the feeling of being an imposter because I'm like, oh, yeah.

Were you always like that, or is that something really? Okay?

I mean, when I came to the US when I was 25, I don't have a college degree, guys. Like, I have got no qualifications. I'm also not a certified life Coach. I have zero. I went to high school, left at 18 like everybody else. That. That's all I have. And so when I came to the US at 25 in 2009. Right.

Like, in a tough time.

Yeah, very tough. I was like, I have to get a really good job here because I was kind of, you know, I needed it. And so, of course, I would go to these interviews in New York, and it was so intimidating with the big buildings, everything. I was like, oh, my go. These Americans, they know so much. You know, they're so advanced with their tech. And I was just.

Yeah, right.

But I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm just gonna have to really bring it. And I'm like, you know, at my core, I know that I'm really capable, and that's really enough. That has to be enough. I don't have a choice. And so, yeah, from, like, from then, even probably before that to now, I mean, Absolutely. And if ever I think it like a media request to be an expert on something, I mean now I'm more used to it, but the bigger the outlets get, I'm like, wait, wait, who are the other experts? And they're often very certified people in that field for many years. And I'm like, oh yeah, look where I am, look who I'm amongst.

So you see it as more like an achievement, like you were able to hack your way into this thing and you're like, haha, you spent 10 years trying to go to go to sleep. I made this happen and I'm changing life. Yeah, you proved it to yourself, basically. It sounds like, well, when you think.

About it, like the only thing that people want is results, right? From working with you, from listening to you, from giving you their attention, like the most valuable currency. What they want is to be helped, comforted, feeling connected, feeling that they're acknowledging or accessing wisdom, knowledge, whatever it is, all they want is results. People don't care about you, they don't care about all the things that you have or don't have. They're just like, can this person help me right now with my precise problem? And that's really all you have to do. That's really your only job to be useful.

And this is like, I think that you explained the imposter syndrome from your side. I think super unique, different than how I've thought about it before in anyone else I've thought of. Quick little thing, I know it's a side tangent and maybe we can just do this later. Maybe I'll just put it out there. But you getting all the pr, you mentioned that previously part of this imposter syndrome. I know a lot of people hold back and feel like they're not worthy to go on TV or even just get published or featured as an expert. Are there some quick tips on. Obviously there's a lot of mindset stuff, but outside of the minds after that, just really fast quick tips around getting the pr, at least from your perspective.

I'd also love to hear the mindset sort of both.

Yeah, yeah.

Both sides of it.

Yes, absolutely. So first of all, the thing that I have to really teach and instill into everybody who wants to do this, who wants to remove their visibility blocks, is really just saying as a fact you are worthy of receiving it. Like this is just, I mean there's a joke that I kind of share in my book, but it's also kind of serious. I mean, I say that, just say you went hiking, say you you know, Matt Jo went hiking with, like, a group of friends, right? And then you guys went missing, right? You guys went missing. They lost you. They were nervous. It was getting dark. You were just. You were missing. Would the rescue team. Would your friends think, are these guys worthy of getting rescued? Like, are they worthy for us to call, to call for help? Let's just check. How many followers do they have? Are they verified? Did they graduate? Are they thin? Like, are they thin enough? Like, what the hell, right?

Sounds like an episode of Black Mirror.

Oh, my gosh, it does.

But when you think about it, like, if this is true in the physical world, this is true on all levels, right? A human being, a million likes. A million. I mean, a perfect body, a million dollars in the bank. Whatever it is, it does not fix your. It does not alter your worthiness at all. Your worthiness is fixed and undeletable. There's nothing you can do to change that. Even if you're a felon, Right. You're worthy of rescue. Like, this is just the truth. And if we can just let this in, accept it as a fact. Fact. Don't struggle with it. Right. Don't question it. It's a fact. There are very few facts in this world. This is one of them. Right? This is a fact. You are worthy. I mean, one other thing that I've noticed in the media is some people, I think they're drawn to me because I'm very open about my lack of qualifications. I preach it loud, like, really loudly.

It's awesome. Yeah. Most people don't.

I think one of my biggest virtues, I mean, in the uk, I interviewed at Cambridge University. I didn't get a place, but I'm like, that would have been a disaster if I got a place and I went there. All my credit go out the wind.

True.

Cambridge is like the Ivy League school. So I'll be like, well, then no one can relate to me because I went to, you know, I'd been. I'd have gone to Cambridge and I would. It would have been a disaster. This is why the universe is so wise. But so some people say, you know, I, you know, I have something to say, but I'm not actually a qualified beautician or I'm not a qualified yoga teacher. I'm not. And I'm like, you know what? In. When it comes to, you know, being an expert in the media, there is always going to be a place for a traditional expert. Yes. So just say that there's a financial fallout. We want a financial expert. Just say, you know, there's a medical issue. We want a doctor. Yes. Something legal, certainly. But one thing that just recently happened in my group was this woman wanted to share about her miscarriage. And very, very common, very. You know, this is, you know, among women, there's still shame around it if there's. There's a lot of feelings, a lot of emotions around it. And she was like, I want to tell my miscarriage story because she became pregnant again. And, you know, she. She ended up having her baby. And she was like, yeah, but I'm not a doctor. And I'm like, look, any woman or man going through anything physical, there is a place for the expert. Yes. The doctor will tell you the next steps. You know, exactly what's happening with your body from a medical perspective. But we want to hear from a real woman. Right. We want to hear from another woman who's been through it, who's healed, who had the result that we want. There is a place for just regular people like you and me who've experienced stuff. Right. Like, our life is our cred.

Yeah.

It's enough. It's more than enough. We want to hear personal stories. Have you survived a divorce? Did you survive bankruptcy? Did you figure out something that we. I haven't figured out yet. Like, whatever it is, it's so generous to share what it is that, you know. And I think that this is a big shift that happens when people then start going, oh, I'm going for it, like, versus, like, oh, don't worry about little me over here. I'll, you know, I might tell a couple of friends my story and it might help them. But it's like, no. If you have done something, if you've transcended any problem, or if you have a piece of information that could be useful, it'll be useful to millions of people. So be generous. Right?

Yeah.

Success is generous. Right. Giving is generous. Sharing what it is that, you know, your story is generous. And so I think that when people allow this truth in, then we just see a gear shift. Like, the mind changes, and we're like, oh, yeah. I'm like, I'm going for it.

Heads on. Yeah.

Yeah. And then from a practical level, a couple of things you want to consider.

Sure.

First of all, because I use media to sell stuff, you don't have to. You can just share your story for impact. That's also completely awesome. But if you want it to grow your business, you want to start with the edge end. Right. The end. In mind, when you start, before you even start pitching, you think what is it I want to sell? Like right now I'm selling my book, but otherwise I sell, you know, different courses, different programs. So I think, what is it I want to sell? And just say, you want to sell a program. Say, I don't know, you're a sleep coach and you want to sell your business travel program. Okay, I want to sell my business travel program. So what do business travelers who have issues with sleep need to know? Like, what is it that I have? What's the goal that I'm spinning that they know so that they can sleep better or maybe they have a newborn? Like whatever it is, do you think, okay, what is it I want to sell? What information do people need to then be hooked on me? Right. To know that I'm the person who can tell them what it is that they need. Why me? And what exactly? What information do they need to know in just a four minute article? Four or five minute article, Some hacks, some tips, some myths, whatever it is. And then you think, well, where are these people book? Who are these business travelers? Are they reading business publications? Are they reading women's magazines? Are they reading parenting publications? It's like knowing who your avatar is and then understanding and finding out where they are online and then thinking what it. Okay, what is it I'm going to say that's going to be really helpful and a little bit different. Right. It's easy to be accepted with your pitches. If you say something a little bit different and even something really relevant to the news, if there's something kind of timely and relevant in the news, then you find the publications where your people are and then you find the right editor at those publications and then you pitch them your ideas and then from there your pieces get published and then that's when you start sharing on social media and everyone's like, you're famous.

That was absolutely amazing.

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. I mean, yeah, that's how it goes. But some people, well, and look, you don't have to get media to sell stuff. Sometimes I just like want to tell a story or. Or you'll have something off topic. That's great too. But this is how you do it, to drive sales.

Yeah.

Do you have any advice on how to actually find the right editor at the publication?

Yeah, my two favorite resources are Rocketreach Co not.com, rocketreach Co and Hunter IO.

Can you say that last one again?

The second one, Hunter H U N T E R IO and both give you 50 free searches a month. I pay to use both platforms because I use them a lot, but for most people, that's enough.

Yeah, yeah, We've used Hunter quite a.

Bit, actually, for SEO outreach kind of stuff. Hey, you've got a blog post, or you've got a blog, can you maybe mention us? Kind of stuff.

Awesome. Also, you're already in the note. Yeah. Same goes for editors. And yeah, Rocket Reach is probably my favorite.

Okay, that one I have not heard of.

Yeah, that's new to me.

Yeah, I'll check those out. I just love that process because it's.

And I like the idea of going for the sale, you know, actually solving a solution with your new mechanism or wherever this new thing is, and making it, you know, tying it into something relevant, obviously finding the audience and speaking to them. But at the same time, like you said, the very end is all the social and you're spreading it around and you're telling everyone. So you're achieving both, really. So why not go for the sale at the top? Because you're ideally speaking to a relevant audience that wants that thing right now. Anyway.

One thing I feel like I. Go ahead. Sorry.

Oh, I was gonna say, like, if somebody's read your article, they've gone all the way to the bottom and then they see your bio and they're like, if they've gotten that far, they already love you. Right. If you think about it, too, just say that you create your article for, I don't know, say, gq. Right? If someone's been a GQ subscriber or follower for, like, five years, when you create content in gq, you are GQ to that extent, you know? And so then if you're like, you know, Joe does this and he helps people. Do y. Click here to get his free. Whatever it is is that is a hot. Like, that is a hot person who is like, oh, yeah, I really, really like what Jo does. And so, of course, you want to make an offer. That's the generous thing to do. That's the next right step.

Yeah, agreed.

I was going to say one of the things that I've sort of realized just doing this podcast and doing some of the outreach that we've done is I think one of the things that probably holds most people back is just the fear of rejection. I feel like almost everybody we've tried to reach out to, we. We've gotten a response, right? And usually the response is like, nah, now's not a good time, or, absolutely, let's do it. Right. But it's never traumatizing when we get a response. But I think we spent so long waiting to reach out to people that we thought were unattainable because we just assumed they were unattainable and didn't even attempt. But when we actually made the attempt, it was like, oh, what were we waiting for?

Rejection is such an illusion. It doesn't even exist. Exist. Like, when you think about it, like, what is rejection? Often it's just, like, not the right fit at the moment or just not the right timing, and we have a whole story about it. What is this one rejection? What does that even mean? I mean, it's so funny. I joke that I reject rejection because whenever. And I'm getting a lot of rejection at the moment because I'm out there. I'm pitching books for, like, all. So all sorts of places, right? And when people respond with a note, I respond back with a, oh, let's. Let's talk about this a little bit more anymore.

I don't.

I don't. I mean, it's so funny, because I really don't care, you know? And if you don't ask, the answer's always no. And if you're kind of not going for it and pushing it. Like, I learned being in sales, like, with my, like, tech background, that most people give up after the second or third follow up. I mean, following up three times, you're in the top 5% of salespeople. And so I would do it four times. Five times. And you know what? People eventually came.

They do.

They're like, I. I'm so tired of you. Okay, here you go. Like. And I'm like, thank you.

It's so true, though. It's wild how people just give up and they think that. And again, it goes back to judgment. It goes back to what other people are thinking. It's like, oh, they're gonna think I'm just a pest.

You know, like, what's the name in an inbox? No one cares about it. Like, and this is the thing. This is. Again, my confidence comes in. A confident person is simply willing to be returned, rejected. Willing. And knowing it's the worst thing that can happen is a feeling, an uncomfortable feeling for a few minutes. Big deal. Like, seriously, big deal. The worst thing that can happen is a feeling. Whoa. That's so scary, right? No.

That'S it. And I can deal with a lot of uncomfortable feelings. My tolerance is exceptionally high. So, like, good luck, everybody who will be hearing from me.

That's awesome. There's no giveaway. I love that you're taking all These kind of, I guess, all the limitations that a lot of us have. You know, the feeling of rejection. Rejection, judgment.

I want to get into your book as well, because I think that's actually a very interesting thing that a lot of people are wrapped up in as well. There's a whole self approval and having a facade out there, but you're just flipping everything. You're like, no, that doesn't exist. I don't buy into that. That's bullshit. No, no.

Yes, it's true. It's true. What a free way to live. And it's okay. People don't have to like me. You'll say yes to me, but I. I'm allowed to do my part. I'm allowed to until. Until I get a restraining order. I mean, like, I'm allowed to do my part and I do it with joy. And frankly, I feel entitled to good things because first of all, I know my worthiness. Every human has it. A lot of people reject it. Right. They reject themselves. You think the world's rejecting us, we're rejecting ourselves and we kind of abdicate. You know, a lot of, you know, our, our potential or, you know, our. What it is. We have to take responsibility for our own blessings. Right. What it is that we want to attract into our life. And I feel like if you can just not question it, understand that if something good is available to anybody else or has happened to anybody else, it's also available and possible for you. Yeah, I really, I just, I know that. And so if something great's happened for somebody, I'm like, awesome. Look what's out there.

Yeah. They just proved that it's possible for you too.

Exactly.

There you go.

And that's why it's great to be really appreciative of people who are further ahead versus envious.

Yeah.

In any life area. And this is why too, we also want to be successful, however we define that, because then we're a real life role model for somebody else. I repeat all the time. But I know that success is generous.

It really is. Yeah. And it's contagious too.

Screw the virus. Let's go. The success virus.

The success virus.

Is that available? Dot com.

Oh, man. Well, Matt, did you have anything I want to touch on the book and really get into some of the concepts there?

Yeah, let's move into that. So stop checking your likes. Stop checking your likes. Shake off the need for approval and live an incred. So on the surface it sounds like you're talking about social media, but you know, the checking your Likes thing. But obviously it goes deeper than social media can. Yeah, let's start by like, what's the meaning of the title of the book?

I wanted a catchy title that was media friendly.

It works.

But everybody knows what it means, right? We all check our likes. But the thing is, there's nothing new here. We compare ourselves with each other forever, you know, and we seek external validation. It's really our prehistoric brain. Right. Back in the the days of old, if our tribe abandoned us, our life was at risk. Right. We needed our tribe, but we've just kind of brought that through and we give it far too much meaning. Like, we think that, you know, hey, you have this amazing, precious, like, short life. Why not spend it, you know, 17 hours a day getting validation from strangers on the Internet?

True.

It's completely, and I say, you know, it's not a social media book. It's like just a sanity book. I think it's like this bringing the truth book back. Like, what is it that you think is out there that you don't already have within you? And why is somebody else's opinion or judgment more valuable than your own?

Yeah, no, it's true. And you mentioned something in the before we started that you have this saying, the inner like button. Yes, it's the whole self approval concept. Talk about that a little bit. I think it's a good framing.

Yes. Well, what do you think about it before you make a decision or if you're thinking about doing something bold or even something not bold, but maybe something new? Our default is always like, well, how is X or Y whatever person gonna think gonna say, we don't even realize we do it. But we just give so much of our power away to people who aren't even often thinking about us or worrying about us. And so it's like the only thing that matters, right, is tapping into our own intuition, our own inner guidance. When you think about it, you came into this world alone, right? You will leave this world alone. Other people walk your path with you. They won't walk it for you. They aren't you. They can't. You can't decide your path. So we all have our own inner guidance. We either just tap into it or we don't. Instead we can say, well, I don't know, these feelings that I have. I don't know, maybe I'm just silly. Let's do what my mom says is best or do what my alpha best friend says is best for me. And look, you can listen, you can get advice, but we know and Nobody else knows what's inside of us, no matter how well they know us and love us. Nobody knows what your dreams are like. Nobody knows what your deep desires are. Only, you know. But it's so funny, because our very personal, unique, individualized desires are only known by us. But we look to other people to tell us what to do a lot of the time, and it just. There is just a complete disconnect there. It's absurd, right? What we give up. So, yes, this is the expression I have, making your inner, like, button the loudest. There can be other likes. That's cool, too. But you have to just always come back and check in with yourself as to the next right step for you.

Yeah, Yeah, I like that. One of the things I saw when we were doing some research before this episode, I can't remember if it was a bullet on one of your landing pages or if it was something you said on another podcast, but one of the things you've talked about in the past is that nobody actually really knows what they're doing, and there's so much power in knowing the fact that nobody else really knows what they're doing. So to go on social media and to look at what other people are doing and going, oh, they're following the path that I should be on. Maybe I'll model them and do what they're doing. Well, what's to say that they actually really know what they're doing any better than you know what you're doing?

Exactly. And how many cases have been in history where someone's like, at the top, top, top, and then they kind of go bust, right? And like, oh, yeah. Or you realize, I mean, my husband jokes. He's like, you believe everything. And I do believe everything. Everything. You know, if someone tells me how much money they're making or if I see us, I just trust it. I'm like, oh, that's great. That's loads. You know? And he's like, don't. He's like, be a little more discerning. Right? Because not everyone is always telling the full truth and we don't know the full story. And I. I do know that. But, yeah, it's. I've. I've been blessed to, like, interview some pretty cool people like Sarah Blakely, Kris Jenner, Arianna Huffington. And they so open about just asking questions and learning as they. They all say this. Like, it's. It's not like, well, yeah, I do have this advantage where I have this brilliant mind, and I just, I. I know what's up they're like, well, I, they don't always use the word intuition, but shakes out around there like, well, has to feel good for me, you know, I, I've learned that other people can give advice, but unless it just, it just feels right, I, I won't do it. You know, I, I will only do it if, you know, if I feel like, yeah, okay, this is just, I'm drawn in this direction. They're so open about just trusting the next right move, which is all your intuition gives you. It doesn't give you like a 10 year plan, it just gives you the next right move.

Yeah, yeah. It's your next best step. Yes.

And that's all you need. Right. And they're so open about. Look, I ask questions. I ask people who know more than me in every single area.

Yeah, I remember. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

No, no, Matt, I want to hear what you have to say.

Yeah, no, I was just going to make a comment. I was listening to a Tim Ferriss podcast episode and one of the comments that somebody asked Tim the question, what is one sort of common denominator you've seen among some of the most successful, wealthy, happiest people that you've interviewed? And he said, the one sort of common thread that I see is that the most successful people are the people that never stop learning. They're always curious and their ego isn't too big to admit that they don't know stuff and then they're willing to just continually ask questions. So no matter what level of success they're at that, you know, whether they're talking to the janitor at a ballpark or they're, they're talking to a CEO of a multi billion dollar company. They're curious and they're asking questions and their ego isn't getting in the way to stop them from, you know, seeking the answers to their curiosity.

Right.

I feel like that's similar to what you're saying there.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, isn't that so funny? The common denominator is being humble and be. And having an open mind. Right? Yeah, because it's not like, well, I knew everything when I was 32. Like there was a day where I realized I know everything. It's like, no. And often you see this too. I mean, this is why I love speaking to people at all levels, all ages. And you can always tell, like the very bright people are always saying, oh, what do you do? Tell me more about that. Oh, I want to know about that. You know, not like I know everything. There's something you can teach me, but just. Just learning. Right. I. I love that, Matt. I love it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. Me personally and I know Joe's fairly similar. We're just fascinated by everything. It doesn't even have to be relevant to anything going on in my life or my business. I usually want to hear more and dig deeper on things. I'm just fascinated by everything, how anything works.

Yeah.

So I think, you know, and I think if I had this constant seeking of approval, which it does exist. I'm not saying I'm, like, absent of that. I. I'm constantly.

But I lost the seeking approval element when it comes to asking questions. I will ask the dumbest questions that the people I'm talking to are probably thinking, like, in my head, this is my perception. They're thinking, oh, I've heard that question a million times. I'm sick of answering it. But I'll ask it anyway because I don't care anymore.

Good. Think about confident people ask questions because they're willing to not know.

That's right.

Right again. And look. Willing to experience negative emotion. Right. Willing to put something out there going, oh, does this sou. Silly. Who cares? Like, who? And are you expected to know everything? I mean.

Yeah.

Since when are we supposed to be perfect and knowledgeable of all things out of the womb? I mean, where did that come from? You know? So I think we can just like, relax a lot more. I mean, in my book, I say, you know, we're taught, like, hustle, right? Like what? Till your eyes bleed? You know.

If you're sleeping, you're a wimp.

I mean, I think that the world could be relaxed. Like, relax. Nobody knows what they're doing. Right. We're all just doing our best, figuring it out. And there are no rules. And you're worthy of everything that you want to be doing. Have to show up in your life.

I love it. It's so good. It's so true, too. And I think something you say, you said it somewhere. But yeah, basically, the high achievers and the successful people, quote, unquote. I'm doing air quotes because what is success?

I guess.

They'Re not overwhelmed with failures. They don't stay in that. Or, you know. And then quotes around failures as well.

Yeah.

They're not stuck in it. Yeah. It's not them.

It's. And it's true because whenever we're. We're kind of stuck in a past failure, that's. That's a new cause that's creating an effect. Like, this happened and then so I can't. And it's like, you know, I think it's just so great to question any belief, any story that we have that isn't helpful because. Because no one. If you ever question your beliefs. Right. You're in the top 10% of people.

Most people think this is just how it is. This is life. This is how life is.

We see it in politics constantly, lately.

But if you think about it, and often we inherit our beliefs from all sorts of places. But it's like, maybe your family thought that rich people were bad or that you can't trust certain types of people. Is any of that trick true? If it's working for you, fine. But maybe it's not. And it's just so good to kind of question it and to always be curious about it.

Yeah.

Something that pops up just for me here is a lot of folks will have resistance to certain things. Maybe some things are a little easier, but then other maybe it's a very personal matter, like a divorce, like you said. I know my parents went through that, but luckily I was able to let that go. That's not me. But, I mean, there's other traumatic things that I've gone through as well, and I'm sure everybody else here, here. Do you have any ways of letting go of just a thing that's sticking? Maybe some of the other stuff's really easy, but this, I can't work through this thing.

Yeah. Well, that's. Then your biggest opportunity, your most pressing issue is your biggest opportunity for growth. Maybe often it circles around forgiveness for the particular person, even if that person is dead. When it comes to forgiveness, if you are in a place of holding onto anything, any resentment. There's a lovely quote which I love to repeat from Wayne Dyer. He says, said, you know, can a snake bite kill you? Like if a poisonous snake bites you, can it kill you? And everyone's like, well, yes. And he's like, no, it's the. Not the bite that kills you. It's the venom in your body that kills you.

Right.

So it's never the thing. Right, Right. It's never the event, the. The offense. Like, whatever it is. It's like what we're holding on to. And whenever we're doing that, I just remember if I feel resentment ever, I'm already in the past. Past.

That's true. Yeah.

You're always in the past when you're like, oh, that. Right. Or what he did, what she did, it's like whatever those feelings come up, it's like, well, already that's Something that happened. That happened already.

Yeah.

And I think that reminding myself of that is really helpful because I don't want to live in the past. Right. And when you hold on to the past, you can't create, like, you're not drawing to yourself your vision of your future. You're kind of stuck back there. So whenever I think there's something that I'm holding onto, it's like, what do I need to release? Who do I need to forgive?

Yeah. Remember we had.

I like that. Yeah.

I remember we talked to Steve Sims, and I'm not sure if this is his quote or if it was a quote that he took from somebody else, but he made a comment when we were talking to him about how you don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by not trying to get out of the water, staying there.

Yes, exactly. So it's. It's not the thing. Right. And when you think about it, we've all suffered, right. If you've been alive long enough, you've. There's been suffering in your life. Suffering, loss, grief, trauma, people who've wronged you. I always remind myself, there are people who've had the same experience. Not exactly the same, but similar. And they. They've survived. Like, they've been okay. Really. Our experiences, they're different, but the same. You know, the universal emotions we all have, the things that we can do to each other. I mean, so I always think, has. Has anybody else survived this or forgiven somebody who's done this? And I'm telling you, if you look for forgiveness stories, it will. It will make you weep. What people forgive. It is incredible, the human spirit. And that's. And that's kind of what. It's so helpful to hear those stories, focus on those stories, because whatever it is that you're holding onto, it's really only causing you pain. So it's great to know that there is another way and that peace has to begin with you.

I like that. And I'm just thinking, like, as you just said that. Yeah, there's all these success stories, these. These breakthroughs that have happened as people in similar sit. Like you said, us humans, we're very similar people at the end of the day. And maybe that's. Identify a sticking point and just go online and start googling like, hey, X thing and then figure out how to find some people some cool success stories. And it's like, oh, yeah, it's possible. It's possible. And it's almost like ingrained that in your brain so much. It's like, all right, damn it, I have nothing to lose here. I can't hold myself back anymore.

Yeah, it's true. And I mean this is why in my book I should share a lot of kind of bizarre stories of things that I've experienced because they're first of all shocking, but also I want it to be like, hey, if this has happened to you, you're not alone, it's okay. And you can still have a good life, you know. So I think there's evidence everywhere. We just, we see what we want to see. Right. Because our subconscious mind will always make us correct. So it's like what is it like what, what information, what, what stories am I seeing? What am I seeking out? Where the evidence will always show up, good or bad, to prove us right. So, so I just, I'd always look for like the best, happiest, most freeing stories.

Why wouldn't you? Yeah, because that's life.

That's my goal. Right. With my self managed mind.

Yeah.

Confirmation bias is a huge thing. When you believe something, you're going to seek out the information that further confirms what you believe. Might as well seek out the information that further makes you believe that life is amazing and that you're doing everything right.

Yes. And that, and I mean think about it, how different does your day look when you're in that place? Right. How kind are you to people? Right. How much more like are you showing up with generosity, you know, versus like being a bit scared or being a bit resentful. And luckily it's something that we always get to choose and nobody else can do it for us. This is really where our freedom is.

Love it. I think it's fabulous. Well, let's maybe wrap it up a little bit but let's give a quick another shout out to the book and maybe in your words, you know how, and it's for everyone, obviously in your words why folks need to get this thing here.

So stop checking your likes. Essentially if you know that you're not living at your fullest and you know that there is some judgment that you fear and a lot of that judgment is also self judgment. There is another way, like there is like there is another option. There are always other options. And the most amazing thing is that this is, is completely within your power. And in my book I distill some of the best stories, pieces of advice that I've acquired over reading 600 self help books. Now I put the best stuff in here and the most useful, powerful, impactful exercises to get that freedom, that basis of freedom that's within us, like, to really activate it and to do it quickly.

That's perfect. Stop checking your likes. And it is available now?

Yes.

Yeah. Everywhere.

Everywhere.

Awesome. So do you actually tell the truth doozy? Do you never, like. You never actually look at your, like, ignore them?

Well, no, I. I post and then forget. Right. Frankly, I don't even consume many other people's stuff. But if I do check my stuff, I mean, if I don't get many likes, I don't do anything about it.

There you go.

Yeah, it's okay with me. It's all. It's all okay. It's all good with me. Whatever.

That's all I was going for.

Awesome.

I love it. Is there anywhere else that you want people to check out? Obviously. Go get the book. Stop checking your likes. Is there any websites or pages that would be helpful to send people who are listening this to?

Yeah, you can just head to my site. I have a lot of free confidence. Resources at Suzie-Moore.com, s u s I E-M-O-R e.com Perfect.

Very cool. How about in terms of some other read or maybe just a piece of content or something that's inspired you recently that you. You've. Or maybe that's something you consistently go back to and share with others that you love. What would you recommend?

A book that I just finished that I read and loved was Becoming Supernatural by Joe Dispenza.

Oh, yeah. I followed a lot of his YouTube stuff. I've never read that book.

It's a great book. It's very scientific. It takes you quite a while to read. It's a very dense book. But I feel like it's an awesome result.

Awesome. Cool.

Susie-moore.com is the website. Stop checking your likes is the book and we'll link up all this stuff in the show notes. Thank you so much for hanging out and talking with us about this kind of stuff.

Thank you so much, guys. This was a blast.

Good.

Thank you, Susie.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you dug it. I know Joe and I dug it. I actually kicked Joe out of the room. He's not here right now. Because I wanted to tell you about a tool that I really, really dig. We use it in our business. We recommend it all the time. It's called easy webinar and it's a tool that lets you do live webinars, automated webinars, hybrid webinars, and, you know, pretty much any other kind of webinar. If there are other kinds of webinars. But anyway, this tool is kind of like your all in one, do it all tool for anything webinar related. It's easy webinar. It's put out by a dude named Casey Zieman. He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's a killer episode. He's a really smart dude, but his software is amazing. It does everything. It's, you know, the title tells you exactly what it does. It's an easy webinar platform, and we use this in our business to run automated webinars all the time. We don't do a lot of live webinars these days. We like to do the kind of automated webinars where somebody can register and then it, you know, they can either watch it like 15 minutes later or they can watch it the next day, but it's just kind of always running. And it's a system that helps us make autopilot sales off of our webinars. Super cool tool. If you haven't tried it yet, you know, it's, it's, it's an amazing tool. And Casey is actually hooking you up. He said for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart, I can't believe he's doing this, but he said for listeners of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, he's giving 25% off of the membership to use Easy Webinar. It's already super, super inexpensive for what it does and all the cool features it has. But he's hooking you up with 25% off because you're a listener of Hustle and flowchart. Go to easywebinar.com hustle. That's where you can get that 25% off discount. That's easywebinar.com hustole. It's a awesome tool. You're gonna dig it, so just go grab it. Check it out. Easywebinar.com hustle. See ya. No, not see ya. You'll hear me in the next show. I don't know. I don't know how to close these things. Go get Easy Web. Talk to you later.

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