The 'Mafia Offer' Strategy to Unlock Your Sales, Profits, and Impact with Caleb O’Dowd

You just got to keep going. You just got to keep going. A relentless attitude. I remember asking Halbert what is the secret to success? And he used to say, and this is exactly a like word for word quote because it got burnt into my mind. And what he said was he kind of paused and looked up and he was like the pig ignorant refusal to ever give up.

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hustle mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger. So that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy. Hey, today I am very excited to share this conversation I had with Caleb O'. Dowd. And this guy is incredible. His background of 19 plus years in business, from a carpenter originally now to an entrepreneur. He's generated over $160 million in sales for the companies he's owned and operated. He has a book coming out which he'll tell you about later on. But the big thing here is he's got this timeless wisdom where he studied from some of the legends in direct respons and names like Gary Halbert that you may or may not have heard about. But he'll tell you about them and some of these reframes that Caleb has had over the years and how relentlessness and his personality has created this to happen. So we dive into a lot of tactics and a lot of principles and reframes about what makes a great entrepreneur. He dives deep into the three top qualities into that and then we ultimately get into how to craft the perfect offer for you and your business. And it's probably not the process you thought it would be. And there's a goal that he talks about that it'll just give you a great exercise to reframe and relook at what you're doing and how you're presenting your offers. This is powerful folks. So I'm going to go down the rabbit hole and do that exercise right after I stop recording this. But I want to Share this with you now and make sure to go check Caleb out over at multichannelmarketing. Com. He's got some great stuff, tons of free value. You can dive into it if you really enjoy this conversation. I'm sure you will. So let's get into it right now. Caleb, we are here and, man, it's been years since we first chatted and I'm stoked to finally have you on the podcast for the first time. How you doing, my man?

Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me, Joe.

Of course. Yeah. And you. I mean, there's. I think it's our mutual buddy Rich Sheffrin originally connected us years back and.

That's right.

Yeah, you've been, you've been publishing amazing people and all sorts of topics and, and, you know, just different niches for years, and you've been crushing it. You know, like, interesting background I would love to get into and how you got into entrepreneurship and what makes you, you know, brought. Brought out your superpowers. And then we'll dive into some. It's a topic that's close to everyone's heart. Should be. Is creating a killer offer that is like the core piece of, or at least maybe the starting piece of a business, because there's obviously a lot more to it. I'd like to show, like, how you're. You're expansive, you're everywhere, I feel like in all the different niches and can serve those listening. Maybe not in Internet marketing per se.

Yeah, well, we certainly specialize, you know, primarily these days in, you know, the business niches, the Internet marketing niches. But, yeah, gosh, we've came through a roller coaster ride of various different niches. We were in pretty much every major health niche. We had a health supplement company for a very long time, you know, in the spirituality niche, we've sold everything from newsletters to gadgets to physical products of every type. And at this game for 19 years, it's kind of shocking.

It's wild.

Shocking for me to, you know, think I, I still feel I'm still a young guy. But as I think back on the ability to say I've been doing this professionally for 19 years, it seems like, oh, my God, I'm not as young as I think I am anymore. But, yeah, we've, we've, you know, we've done everything. We've been offline. We've been doing direct mail in a large volume. Before that business kind of died out. We got into newspaper advertising, did massive Volume in newspaper advertising. We didn't get into radio and magazines. And then we got on the Internet and started doing just pretty much every major business model at scale on the Internet across just a wide variety of different niches ranging from health to spirituality to business. As I said, Internet market marketing, gosh, a whole slew of various different things. We were in mental health there for a while. We had a great guru that we published in the mental health niche. Yeah, just lots and lots and lots of niches and various business models and various channels over the last 19 years.

Yeah, yeah. And, and that's the key thing is multi channel, I know, is your big thing and obviously your website. But you have a book coming out. We'll get to all that stuff and how it's integrated, of course. But you've learned a lot throughout the years, the 19 years. And you've been busy, man, because I know you've studied from some of Gary Halbert and. But before all that, yeah, kick me into the story. Take us into your world. And what got you to become an entrepreneur?

Yeah, it was, it was a strange thing. I mean, I, I'm, I'm very proud to say I'm a high school dropout. I left high school halfway through high school. It's called secondary in Ireland, secondary school. And I was 16, just turned 16 and left high school and became a carpenter for four years. Never went to college. And my older bro was the opposite of me. I was like the, the, you know, the high school dropout of the family. My other, my older brother was like the most successful, awesome guy. He worked in a very high ranking, you know, he was a senior director for Dell Computers. And when I was about 1920, my brother decided, hey, listen, I'm, I'm leaving Dell and you and I are getting into business together. And I got all these skills, you got none. So, you know, you need to go and like get a skill, you know. We decided we were going to get into direct response. We wanted to get into a direct response marketing business for a variety of different reasons. And John gave me the newsletters of this guy called Gary Halbert and I read his newsletters and I was floored. I couldn't believe that there was a guy that was this entertaining, this crazy guy that had like made fortunes, lost fortunes. He was in jail. He had, you know, owned the most expensive house in Hollywood at the time. And he was just this business wizard. And you know, and John said, hey, you know what? You must like go and make that guy like your mentor. He's going to teach you marketing and advertising, and you take care of marketing and advertising, and I'll run the business because I got all of these business skills. So I just, like, literally called this guy up. He had a phone number, and I was just relentless, man. I, I, I called him every single day, sent him letters, you know, I told him I needed him to mentor me. He was like, you're, you're out of your mind.

Who are you?

Yeah, exactly. Who are you? Just, like, weirdo from Ireland, you know? And man, read a book from Napoleon Hill that talked about this guy that worked for Thomas Edison, and he had, like, sent a letter to Thomas Edison. He was like, hey, I'm so impressed. Like, I want to come and work for you. And Edison wrote back, thank you very much. You know, I'm very complimented. I don't have a job or whatever. This guy just, like, relentlessly sent him letters every single day. Edison stopped responding. This guy jumped on a train, traveled all, like, gave up his life, traveled all the way across America and, like, turned up at Edison's door. And Edison was like, you are out of your mind. Like, you're gonna, okay, I'll give you a job. You're gonna have, like, the lowest, you know, job in the company. And then, like, a couple of years later, he was business partners with Edison, and they were making millions of dollars. And I was like, oh, I don't have the skills. I don't have any knowledge. I don't have any anything. But I, I can probably torment another human being so much that they snap and, like, give me an opportunity.

So that's what it was.

That's what I did. I set my eyes on Halbert and tormented him. I, like, called him every day, multiple times a day, sent him emails, sent him handwritten letters, and this went on for weeks. And he, like, was snapping, you know, he was like, f off, you know, don't ever call me again. Just kept going and going and going until eventually he was like, you're out of your mind. I'm going to give you three weeks of my time. It's going to cost $19,000 and take it or leave it. Hung up the phone. I didn't have €19 in my pocket. Called my brother. I was like, hey, he wants 19 grand. And my brother went and got the money. He actually, you know, he had moved home, purchased this enormous house and, you know, like, you know, built a life in Ireland at the time. And, you know, so he was like, okay, look, I'm gonna go remortgage the house and I'm gonna get you the money there. Wow. So gave me the money, I went to Halbert and, and three weeks turned into three years. And during that three year period, Halbert got us into business, got us into direct mail, started a health supplement business that became an enormous business for us. We were spending anywhere from about 500 to million dollars a month on direct mail advertising. So that was an ad spend going into the mail.

Yeah.

And then as I said, from there we went on into newspaper advertising. We would spend about maybe 250 grand a month on half page newspaper ads and full page newspaper ads. And we became like the largest direct response newspaper advertisers for several years running in America. We were carpet bombing the whole country every week with, you know, hundreds of newspaper ads that were running in like small, medium and large circulation newspapers all throughout the country. And yeah, and then we got on the Internet and, you know, we just went down to do really, really great things online, you know, and I think it was all, it was all because of clearly of what we learned from Halbert. He was a genius at everything he did, but he gave us old world marketing knowledge. Like, like kind of real battle hardened, like old school lineage type concepts and principles and tactics. And he used to say that, you know, if the beginner always wants the tips and the secrets and the hacks and the shortcuts, and he's like, but they don't really get you anywhere, you know, like it's, you know, by the time the beginner gets to hear about that stuff, they're already ineffective. And then the intermediate marketer, that person, wants tactics and strategies which are very powerful and worth learning. But there's a time limit on them. You know, like the guys that were doing SEO like 10 years ago, like the game has changed, you know what I mean? The tactics 10 years ago are not really the same tactics today. What he would say is you got to really learn the, the core fundamental concepts and principles because those things are timeless. And if you master the concepts and the principles, you'll be able to apply them anywhere you go online, offline, this channel, that channel, this business model, that business model, whether you're, you know, creating a direct mail sales letter, a radio ad webinar, a video sales letter, if you are a master of the concepts of principles, then you'll be, you'll be able to kind of apply them anywhere. And, and he was right. You know, it's, it's, it was, it was a unique education that we got from such an extraordinary Guy that, that really kind of set us up for life from that point forward, you know, it's incredible.

I love the story, man, and thanks for taking us back there and. Because that, yeah, there is no one better. And he's. He's a legend in the marketing space and the sales space. Just. I don't even know what space you call it. He's. He's like a foundational for business. Yeah, man. So relentless.

There's.

There's a couple things that I'm picking out from what you said there. But being relentless is the key, I would say, because that was the spark. Right. Like, I'm sure he probably saw that in you too. He's like, this guy, he won't give up. Like, he's obviously going to make it in business if he doesn't quit and zeroed in. It wasn't like, you're doing this with like 500 people. There's no way you could, you know, and so you probably saw your focus, too.

Yeah. You know, a lot of people really kind of think that it's. It's like who you know and what you know and things like that. And in a lot of ways it is. But more so than anything, I think it's who you are. You know, it's like, you know, you could take two guys, teach them the same methodology for, you know, succeeding in business. One guy's got a bond, the other guy's going to succeed. And if they both start out with the same level of knowledge and experience, what makes the difference is that one person has attitudes, beliefs, habits, perspectives on things that are really going to empower that person to move forward and succeed, and the other one does not. The other person is riddled with a lot of these things. I call them saboteurs. Saboteurs are all of the common ones. Shiny object syndrome, you know, procrastination, you know, lack of overthinking, lack of willingness to commit. Yeah, like, all of these things. So I think that, like, the real main criteria for success really is not what you know or who you know, even though that stuff is important. It's more about who you are as a person. You know, like, and I don't think enough people really take the time to understand what it is and what it means to be an entrepreneur, because that's a very well defined character. And, you know, if you understand like what that person is, then by emulating that person, emulating those characteristics, emulating those beliefs and those habits, then you're going to progress way faster in business than if you're just focused on the systems and the business models and the tactics and the strategies and you know, all of that kind of good stuff because at the end of the day it's really more about who you are and what you bring to the table as an individual in terms of your personality, your characteristics, your beliefs, your habits. That stuff is really massive, man.

I love it. It's kind of a breath of fresh air because it's like we can ignore all the tactics, the strategies because like if we're going back to Halbert, it's timeless, right? Like what you learn from him can be APPL now in the AI digital world. But there's still offline stuff, of course. What are some of the, like, maybe like the top three if you could think of that, these characteristics that make a great entrepreneur in your eyes. Because you've obviously learned from Halbert. You, you kind of willed entrepreneurship in your life and you've also published a shit ton of people, you know, that you're, you're obviously cherry picking. So what are like the top three that come to mind for you?

I think certainly being relentless is massive. You know, like being relentless, like understanding that, you know, like, you just gotta keep going, you just gotta keep going. A relentless attitude. I remember asking Halbert what is the secret to success? And he used to say, and this is exactly a like word for word quote because it got burnt into my mind. And what he said was he kind of paused and looked up and he was like the pig ignorant refusal to ever give up. And that to me was like, it even makes me tingle even to like think about it again. Because I was a high school dropout so you know, I was definitely not the sharpest tool in the box. So I was constantly looking for ways that I could have an edge over everybody else that like went to college and all that kind of good stuff and like, you know, had this like superior kind of educational background to me. And I used to always, I used to latch onto those types of things because having a relentless attitude, you know, you know, the pig ignorant refusal to ever give up, that goes beyond like, you don't need education education, you don't need knowledge, you don't need experience, you don't need a high IQ for that stuff. You just need to do it, you just need to adopt that. You just need to say, hey, that's me and I'm going after it. And like some of the savviest guys that I know, some of the most successful guys that I know got there via process of Elimination. They just literally failed their way to success. You know, they literally just tried so many different things and as a result, they just eliminated all of the possible reasons why, you know, they would not succe lead, leaving the only available option left in the table to be successful. And I know so many guys like that, so many like people that you're look at and you're like, that guy's elite. He's an elite level entrepreneur. She's an elite level entrepreneur. Not understanding that these people, you know, have just taken a relentless attitude to like, success. And I even love the word relentless. I often just whisper it under my breath all the time. I even love how it feels to say it. I love writing it down. I love just like relentless. It's just such a powerful, loaded word. And I think that that's kind of at the core of every entrepreneur. It's this kind of fundamental building block of success. Every entrepreneur must have a relentless attitude to success. I think secondly, thoroughly understanding what failure is. You can't succeed without failure, right? Albert, you know, kind of gave me, and this is my way of calling back what he taught to me. But failure is in fact your mentor and guide. It is teacher. You know, like, you cannot be successful without it. The road to success is paved with failure. You cannot play football without the ball. You cannot play entrepreneurship without failure. The problem is, is that most people don't know how to internalize failure. They get burned by it. They view it as a personal defeat. They view it as like, oh my God, like I'm a terrible person or someone else is a terrible person around me. You know what I mean? It's like they find ways to blame things for and, and resist failure when in reality, like, failure is your mentoring guide. It's actually a sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet education because as I say, like the people that fail the most. This was another Halbert thing. I asked him, why are you the best of the best? Because he was literally considered the best of the best. And he had this cute little rhyme and it was, I'm the best of the best because I failed more than the rest.

And like he puts himself out there more. He was doing it more self out there.

The masters fail more times than the beginners even try, even attempt, like succeed. So constantly failing is a very, very good thing. I had a very old cantankerous mentor when I was a carpenter. And like, he used to always say, like, you're not going home until you make a mistake. Today he valued mistakes massively. Because if you're making Mistakes. As long as you're learning, you know, if. If you're making mistakes and you're learning from it, you are skyrocketing, you're booming, Your. Your education is exploding, your experience is exploding. And that's really what everybo needs is experiential knowledge. Not necessarily too many books and courses and stuff like that. So I would say definitely number two would be internalizing failure and mistakes accurately so that you are not burned by them, but actually you're empowered by them. And it's not to say that they don't sting and they don't hurt and they're not damaging. It's that, like, you should wear this stuff like badges of honor. Your failures are your badges of honor. Nothing makes entrepreneurs happier than to sit around the table drinking a few beers, talking about all their failures.

That's right.

It's like badge of honor. You know what I mean? It's like you come home from war with a purple heart. Like, it's that. You know what I mean?

And that's what it feels like when you describe it. It's war. Like you're going in a battle every day. As entrepreneurs, we choose this battle. It's up to us.

Yeah, exactly. You know, and like this relentless attitude, number one, you know, internalizing failure and making mistakes, number two, so that that stuff empowers you instead of actually cripples you. You. And a very unusual number three for me is constantly being a relentless student of your competitors. I think that, you know, people ask me all the time, hey, like, what kind of books do you read? I never read books now. I never read how to books. And like, I'm the opposite of what everybody says, oh, you should read like, whatever, 10 books a week or something like that. I'm the opposite. I don't even read ten books a year. I'll read some, like, entertaining stuff for entertainment purposes. But what I have always found, if you're looking to progress in business, if you take the impact of reading a book and you compare it to the impact of reverse engineering a competitor and seeing what they're doing, the difference in your bank account is probably 10,000 to 1. Like, a book will fill your head with knowledge. If you study a competitor, that will fill your bank account with money. Anytime I study my competitors, anytime I buy their product, I go through their funnel, I see what they're up to. I look at their ads, I look at their landing pages. I, you know, transcribe a webinar or a video sales letter or something. Bang. I am making Money. That is one of the most valuable, profitable habits that I have developed in my career. Every single week I am studying reverse engineering my competitors and applying what it is that they do because I can directly take tactic strategies from them, I can customize them, I can make them my own and I can implement them in my business and I can make money. I can turn money from that activity in about 72 hours.

I love that.

If I compare reading a book and I'm not saying don't read books by the way, I'm just saying that I get like everybody should do whatever they want to do. But characteristics of successful entrepreneurship. Top three for me is, is those, you know, because like Atomic Habits. That's a great book by the way, that I do recommend everybody should read Atomic Habits. An atomic habit for me is reverse engineering marketing competitor. Seeing what they're up to, seeing what they're doing. That puts money in my bank account every single time, guaranteed.

I love those, man.

Looking for as an entrepreneur, more sales, more profits, more scale, more growth, more impact. You get that from studying top competitors.

Oh man. Yes. And now you know, there's, I know there's so many tools that can help you even backwards engineer what they're doing and pull out the, you know, take a webinar, transcribe it. You can use AI. There's tools like Cast Magic, which I'll, I'll just toss out there that will pull out the main points, we'll pull out the Q&As and like takes like maybe two minutes to, to do. So it's like, it's so snappy these days to do research like that.

Oh, it's fabulous. Yeah.

Yeah, man. Oh, thank you for those relentless failures and studying reverse engineering competitors. Goal right there. Thank you. And I want to, because this all comes into, and I guess tell me a little bit about, about your business model now. You know, you publish a lot of experts out there. You're doing a lot of webinars, you're multi channel marketing. Talk about that. And then I want to get into the offers because that is the core thing, right? Like that drives your business and everybody else's.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, you know, for me, what I always find. So like we help a lot of Internet business owners these days. Like we help them grow and we help them scale and among other things that we do as well. But it's always amazing to me just how disconnected like modern marketers have become. Come from old school, like the old school understanding of, of this business and, and how it was literally set in stone. Like the Internet came along like five minutes ago. Like this business has been around for like over a hundred years, you know, like in, in scale and in volume, you know, and these guys kind of figured it all out and it's very basic stuff, you know, but like the people have kind of lost the basics. But there's really two aspects to like all business. And Internet marketers are so kind of just in one aspect, the whole purpose of business really is to acquire a new customer at break even or a loss up front so that you acquire the most amount of customers and then you monetize those customers on the back end. And that's how it's done most profitably. Meaning that there's no money on the front end. And all of the money, all of the profit, all of the personal income, all the paying for the kids college education and the home and the mortgage and the whole lot, it's all made in the back, back end. But every, not every, but the vast majority of like Internet business owners, they're trying to make everything from the front end. They're trying to, you know, not only acquire a customer, but do it at a profit, pay the mortgage, put the kids through school, you know what I mean? And, and like as a result, these guys are constantly struggling, constantly at risk, you know, if they lose an ad account, their entire life is ruined.

One channel, right?

Yeah, exactly. One channel. You know, all in one ITIs. It's called everything is just like one of everything wretched disease. One fun Lysis is another one terrible.

Dan Kennedy said it's the most dangerous number in business is one. I think is an old quote of his. I think it's him or Bill Glazer, one of the two.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. It's so true. So like a lot of what it is that we do is try and like brainwash these guys into like, like understanding how the business really works. And you know, we teach them how to acquire customers on the front end using a variety of different funnels. You know, we got a laundry list of stuff, all the usual suspects, VSLs, book funnels, webinars. We do a lot of different kind of things as well. We do a lot of stuff with what we call mini groups. If you're in the coaching consulting space or even in the affiliate marketing space, you know, mini groups, 12 day kind of Facebook groups. So we've got a lot of various different models for acquiring customers and clients on the front end. But really where the magic happens is really in everything that we do to build out what we call a monetization machine. So we try and create this back end system that takes people through this automated journey that really establishes trust with them, gives them lots of value, keeps them educated and inspired and motivated and glued to us. And along the way we're really employing smart advertising tactics and strategies, using online and offline channels to, you know, sell and promote whatever, you know, products and services are relevant to those audiences on the back end. So we do that, as I said, across a variety of various different business models. You know, webinars, product launches. Not a big fan of product launches as a business model overall, but it's hard to deny that those things are extremely lucrative, you know, well, it's like.

It could be a nice pop to kick off something new. And the intention is that there's back in, there's some kind of evergreen element to it, ideally.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, but like what? Like a smart business is really like you're, you're diversified across multiple channels, taking in new leads and converting them into customers in an automated manner across multiple channels. And you know, you're establishing relationships with them, you're upselling them and monetizing them on the back end. Like if you have a business like that where you have like this monetization machine on the back end, it's like six months, 12 months long. Where there's that much automation in place going out to all of the new customers and, and prospects that you're acquiring and everything is automated in that manner. What you've really got is a real business. You know, I always tell people, if you've got an automated monetization machine and it's 12 months long in terms of the actual funnel and you lose an ad account, you got 12 months, months of stress free time to figure that out. If you're paying your mortgage on the front end sale, you're doomed if you don't fix that.

Minutes, you know what I mean? Like you're in so much trouble. And this type of thing, what it does, takes this Internet business model and it just turns it into a real business and it makes it, it removes all the stress, it gets rid of all the anxiety, it gets rid of all the pressure, it gets rid of all of the crazy deadlines and it just makes everything smooth. You know, when you have this stuff built and everything is automated and the whole model is kind of established, you've got yourself a real business and you've got yourself a business then that, you know, people can operate a great deal of that business without you. You know, like most the complaints that I get from the people that I serve is like, I'm overworked, I'm underpaid, the wife or the husband is given out, you know, I don't have any time to play with the kids or whatever. It's all because there isn't a complete system and play. This business model has been established forever in a day. You know, all of the, the publishing companies in direct mail were employing this stuff like 60, 70, 80 years ago. Yeah. You know, and they had it all figured out. They were all taking in customers, they were taking profit from the back end and using it to acquire customers at significant costs to double, triple, quadruple the quantity of customers they could acquire on the front end in comparison to all their client, all their competitors out there. And then when that, you know, 3, 4, 5x multiple of new customers hits that like six 12 month back end, the amount of personal income that comes out of a business like that is absolutely profound.

Yeah.

And very few people understand like just how profitable their business on the Internet really could be if they were employing a complete business model instead of a very partially put together business model. It's like a, a chair with four legs on it. You know, like modern Internet marketers, you know, they got a one legged chair.

You know, so a lot of, that's.

A lot of what we do, you know, it's customer acquisition, monetization, systematization.

Love it, man. And this is, it's a true business. And I like the fact that it does not have, like business doesn't have to be full of anxiety, rushing. It's, if you, if you apply it in this way, it's a compounded effort. You're doing the boring work, you know that. Yeah. It's not the shiny object stuff. I mean, maybe you're testing something, but it's probably way in the back end or in addition to some solid thing you already have made.

It's, it's interesting you say that because when I was up rocking and rolling in direct mail all those years ago, these were like, my competitors were like, I was like 22, you know, had a much thicker Irish accent than I have today. All of my competitors were like, you know, grizzled, old world veteran cigarette smoking, you know, direct mail, hardcore direct response marketers. And they, you know, there was one guy in particular and he used to always say, it's boring if you're doing it right. It's boring if you're making money. And he's like, you should. It's only exciting if everything is not working market.

That's true.

Like, if you've got your proverbial stuff together, the business should be boring. Got it all dialed in. Everything is working smoothly. It's when everything is on fire. There's panicking, there's stress, there's. You know, that's when things are not actually working. You haven't got the business model in place, if that's what's going on there.

You know that's right, man. That's a. It's a good check that we can all do for ourselves. Like, little check in. Like, am I freaking out? Am I putting out fires right now? What am I ignoring right now in my business that I should refocus on? I want to go to the offer because maybe you can walk us through someone listening right now. They have a brand new offer in mind that they want to present. Maybe one they even want to rehash, you know, revamp. I don't know if that's the same idea, but walk us through how you would approach that. Like at the drawing board with someone right next to you. It could be me. If you want, you can pick a topic. Topic. Something. Something that comes to mind.

Well, I, I think that, you know, one of the major breakthroughs that I kind of feel like I have made in my career here is really kind of figuring out a conceptual understanding of how to approach creating really, really powerful offer. And I guess it's good to kind of maybe start by talking about like what everybody kind of thinks an offer is versus what an offer really is.

Sure.

Because most marketers have become completely disconnected from what an offer really is. And most think these days that it is about putting a whole bunch of stuff together into some big bonus stack that of like, random stuff that adds up to like $29,000 worth of value that they just give away. Then, you know, like, you can get all this $29,000 worth of value for whatever 497 bucks, whatever it might be. The whole idea is, is grab as much stuff as you can possibly get, stick it into the offer and create this large sum of money that this thing is like, you know, worth, apparently. Worth.

Yeah.

Worth. Yeah. And then give it away at like this super small price. And that's what everybody kind of believes what a. An offer is. But really that is just like more so it's a value sale. And a value sale is very important, but it's more so the cherry on top. It's not the main, you know, it's not the main thing. Like, what people are really looking for is a fast, easy way to accomplish what they want to accomplish without hassle and without responsibility.

Interesting.

And, you know, there's that famous movie, the Godfather. And the Godfather, like, makes, you know, in the movie, it's. It's become kind of known in the industry as, like, this mafia offer. So this mafia offer is an offer offer that you can't refuse. So for me personally, thinking about, like, an offer you can't refuse, by the way, this has made its way across everything I do in business. This is such a profound concept. When most people try to, like, put together an offer, they try to succeed. And as a result of trying to succeed, they put everything into their offer. Hey, you're going to get my book, and I'm going to give you access to my Facebook group. And you're also going to get this script, and you're going to get this template, and you're going to get this, that, and the other. But in essence, that's not really what it is that people want. Like, people don't really want value. As I said, people want, you know, a fast, easy way to accomplish their goal without, you know, hassle, stress, commitment, and responsibility. So ultimately, what I figured out was that if instead of coming at your offer from the perspective of trying to succeed, and therefore just try cramming in all of this other stuff, the business, the game is hard. The game is not about succeeding. The game is about how to not fail. Because if you add up how many ways there are to succeed and you compare them to how many ways there are to fail, the ways to fail massively outnumber the ways that there are to succeed. So if you're playing this game correctly, the real game is to forget about trying to succeed, but attempt at all the costs to not fail. So what I discovered was if you come at the perspective, forget about trying to create an offer, if you understand what it is that you have to, like, give people in exchange for their money. But you sit down and you think to yourself, hey, what are all of the reasons why a prospect would say no to this? And you just put together a laundry list. They would say no because of this, they would say no because of that. They would say no because of the other. And you come out, you make that list, and you make it as complete as you possibly make it. And then one by one, you sit down and you try and create the absolute most, most perfect and complete rebuttal to that, that reason why someone would not buy. And if you do that systematically and you make your way through the list and you develop manifest, create or strategize ways to overcome each one of those objections, then what you will end up with is an offer that no one can say no to. So if you think, then like my friend and mentor John Carlton, he used to always say, great advertising is a conversation between two people at the bar. He's like, if you think about it that way, you'll get down deep into the psychology of what's really going on. So like we have an offer where we teach people like how to acquire clients via Facebook advertising. So if you think about it, what are all the ways that someone would say no? So like the person would say, hey listen Caleb, this whole thing sounds amazing. The problem is, is that like I don't know how to create any app ads. Like, I'm really not good at that. I would love to buy this, but I just know I'm not going to be able to create any ads. So like, I'm not going to buy this because I don't, I can't create any ads. So what would be the most complete, thorough, you know, solution to that? There could be a number of different ways, but the absolute pinnacle of like, what would overcome that objection is if you were to say, hey listen Joe, don't worry about it, I'll create your ads for you. Now, there's nothing now that part, there's no rebuttal to that, you know, and then the person says, okay, you know, that sounds awesome, but like, I gotta be honest with you, I don't even know how to like create an ad campaign. Hey, no worries. Create your ad campaign for you. Wow, this sounds really good. You know, this sounds fabulous. The only thing is like, I've never actually ran an advertising campaign. I don't know how to like buy traffic or anything like that. Hey, no worries. How about I buy your traffic for you? And so the conversation goes with I'm not going to buy because does. And the response is, no worries, I'll take care of that for you.

Yeah.

And even if you can do all of those things by going through that exercise, what you will end up with is either an offer that people literally cannot say no to and therefore it'll probably be the number one most powerful and therefore strongest and most compelling and highest converting offer in your niche or else it will, why where you will land is with an offer that is infinitely more powerful and stronger and higher converting than where it is you start to begin with. Secret is to create an offer that no one can say no to. Not an offer that people get a lot of value out of. Because. Let's flip the conversation. Hey, listen, this whole thing sounds great. Like, I really want to buy this, but I don't know how to create ads. Oh, I'm like, no worries. I'm going to, like, give you access to, like, my Facebook page group. And the prospect is like, yeah, but, like, how does that help me?

Yeah.

And the response is, no worries. I'm going to give you my book. You know, my book.

Find it yourself.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, and the prospect is like, yeah, but like, that still doesn't address, like, my big, like, problem here. Yeah. So if you come at it from this perspective, if you come at it from identifying all of the reasons why someone would say no, and then you systematically attempt to overcome each and every last one of those objections by manifesting or, you know, brainstorming the most perfect solutions to each one of those objections, then what you will be left with is an absolute killer offer. Perhaps the most powerful offer that exists in the niche right now.

Man, that. That exercise right there I will be doing on. On some of the stuff I'm working on. But the key thing that stands out for me is taking responsibility away from the prospect. That just seems like what everybody wants. Right. I don't want the response.

The absolute highest converting offer is an offer that takes all responsibility off the shoulders of the client. That's the pinnacle, that there's nothing above that. Because a lot of the times people, like, people think, hey, I ran this offer, like, let's say to an email list. Hey, I ran this offer. 100 people bought. 9,900 people didn't buy. That means they didn't want the offer. Offer. It's not what's happening. There's probably 2,000 people that were like, hey, I really, really want that offer. It's just that there's, like, this thing, you know, that's like, stopping me from, like, moving forward, you know, and there's many answers to that. But actually, one of those answers is, I've bought so many things in the past that I haven't actually taken any action on. I don't believe in myself. I don't trust myself to do this.

Yeah.

And that's like one of the largest categories. Like, even with books, it's like, how many. How many people have bought books that they just never read?

Whole shelves full, man. That's the common thing. Yeah.

It's like people collect books they don't read, you know, like, Butterflies. It's like a collection. Like normally people just buy like hundreds of books and never even crack the COVID So you gotta understand that most people that buy stuff never use stuff and they know that. So depending on your niche, that's one of the biggest reasons why people are not buying. It's because they, they don't trust themselves enough.

Yeah, it might not be you, it's, it's them.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They don't trust themselves enough to get the benefit out of whatever it is that you're selling. So when you take all responsibility, or as much responsibility off their shoulders as can be, that explodes. Conversion rates, man.

I think that that's probably the 80, 20 I would imagine of offers right there. Right. I mean, obviously there's ways to price and package and deliver and without this, I mean, you're flying blind. You know, there's, it's not going to be put together.

Yeah, this conceptual approach changed everything for us. And I started to realize, hey, this is not just, this is not a strategy for offers. This is a strategy for everything. This is a strategy for everything. If you sit down, if you're like launching a new business like, hey, the game is not to succeed. The game is to avoid failure. Because by avoiding all of the, by first identifying and then systematically overcoming all of the reasons why you would fail, then that skyrockets your likelihood of success. But when you're trying to succeed normally, you'll come up with some pretty crazy ideas, you'll cut corners, you'll half ass things because you're just trying to get going, get going, get going. But all that's happening is you're just stepping on 101, like landmines that are going to cause you to fail. Whereas if you systematically identify all of the reasons why you could fail, fail, and overcome each and every last one of them, then your likelihood of success is astronomically higher. You can take that to media buying, you can take that to offer creation, you can take that to every last facet of every single thing you do in business, hiring people, everything. If you take that approach. Because the game is hard, anyone who thinks that the game is easy is, is, is not living here. In reality, the amount of opportunity to failure so massively eclipses the amount of opportunity available to succeed that the game is not about succeeding. The game is about avoiding failure. And by doing this and applying this approach that avoiding failure is in fact the highest, like the most effective strategy for succeeding and trying to succeed is one of the lowest, least effective ways.

Days for sexy and this this applies with life, I would imagine as well, but in the context of business. Yeah. And with this whole thing you mentioned the game, avoiding failure is going to keep you in the game longer. And that's the whole thing is if you're in the game longer, you're obviously relentless already.

Yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna skyrocket. Your skill set, your knowledge, your savvy, your experience. This is a profound concept. It is in fact, fact, it's, it's the impact of employing this in your business and as you mentioned in your life is profound because the education, the experience that you get from going through this and applying this elevates your status, elevates your, your success rate, number one, but elevates your status, your personal income, the size of your company, the market share, you know, the dominating force that you are in your niche. Niche. Like it's, it's, it's a gargantuan massive like concept that you know, has very far reaching implications.

I feel like I could keep diving down all day long with you. Tell us about your book that's coming up because I think it's your fourth book. Correct?

It's not. I mean I. So I do books, yes. I've done loads and loads and loads of books, but I've never actually done one that has, that I plan on like putting out there on a level. You know, I've done books as promotions to email lists and stuff like that. But this is like, I'm really shooting for this to be on Amazon and do a lot of big things. So it's not published yet. It's, it's in the oven. I'm expecting it to come out in the next two months. And it's called monetization, the ultimate multi channel marketing funnel. And it's essentially, it encapsulates kind of everything that I do do in terms of monetized, in terms of acquiring and monetizing customers using multi channel marketing. And it gets into a lot of great detail in terms of a lot of the concepts and principles that are behind everything that I do. And to me personally, you know, it's, it's everything that is kind of behind what it is that we do. And I know at least the content is very powerful. So you know, I, you know, I, I'm looking forward to, to getting it out there and you know, hearing what people have to say about it. I know that like, for me personally, for the clients that I work with, the kind of, the content in this book, the tactics, the strategies, the principles, the the concepts have been profound, and, you know, I'm really kind of excited to hear how people are going to get on with this.

So once it's available, man, I would love to share it with the folks here because I know this is the tip of the ice. Iceberg of what we've been talking about. And yeah, where else. Where else can folks follow you but dive into stuff? I know you have a really incredible checklist that's on your website, so that's obviously another tip of the iceberg there. Yeah.

Multichannel marketing dot com.

Good domain.

Yeah. Who wants to, you know, continue to listen to me, you know, on my madness? Can go to multichannel marketing.com and find out more about me there.

Right on. Caleb, man, I appreciate the reframes, the. The life lessons. Lessons like the wisdom that you have and that you've taken from other mentors or not taken, but you're. You're continuing on and sharing here. Appreciate your time, brother.

Yeah, appreciate it, man. It's been an honor. Thank you so much for having me.

Very welcome. All right. All right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live if you need to do the work. But, you know, work can be fun, fun, and it should be fueling for your life. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list, writing a review or whatever it be, might, might be. Everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, and I will see you next time.