The Power of Being Useful: Strategies and Tools for Content Creation Success with Jacob Gooden

I came in my dumb ass self and I go, we need to be everywhere. We need to be on YouTube and we need to be over here. And they were kind of thinking along those lines and that wasn't, I'm not going to say it was the worst idea ever, but it was, it was interesting because it went from.

They started to lose focus of like LinkedIn being the primary and it was like, don't bite the hand that feeds you, right? They're getting thousands of views, they're getting all these reshares they're getting, they're doing well on this platform. And then we just took it for granted and we went and focused on something else.

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Dude, we started working together 2019. So like five years. Yeah.

That's crazy.

So long time in the making, dude.

Yeah, about time. So I don't know why Matt and I never brought you on. I know we talked about It. You did the shorts. Like, we had this whole separate podcast that you ran, which you were the voice. You were the head. Head honcho of that one. The pod shorts, we called them. Right?

Yeah, it was like hustle and flow shorts. And, yeah, I was just like small condensed down versions and stuff. So, yeah, that was fun. And that was like. You guys got me going on that pretty quickly right after I started working with you. So.

Yeah, because I think Matt was doing a lot of the editing of this show for a lot. I mean, he. That's how we start. We started. He did that side of things, and I did more of, like, the connecting, bringing people on, and that's how we divvied efforts up. And then. Yeah, you were the first one that we ever brought in to help with ed editing. I think we might have had someone before, but never to the level that you dedicated your time and attention to and, you know, took us to video. I know it was a big piece. And then, yeah, the shorts thing. And then it turned into what? More the. The other media that we're starting to put out made it, made us feel like a real show, you know? But, dude, so the fact that you're on here and, like, we're working together, it's changed over the years. We'll talk about that too, man. We've all learned a ton. Obviously, Matt's not here now, but we still collaborate, and he'll be on the show very soon, if not already, depending on the release schedule. So you guys are kind of in charge of that, Jake. So. Yeah, who knows?

Maybe it's going live tomorrow.

I got a record today. Yeah.

Dude, it's just like, you have a cool background. I want to. I want to talk about, like, your journey into this role and, like, how. How that all came to be, but also, like, what you've done for yourself because you're not just working on this show. You're doing. You have a lot going on I'm probably not unaware of, too. And. And you have, like, you've become a resource that I go to. But also clients of mine, partners, people on the show, go to you for perspective of media, you know, equipment stuff. I feel like that's the. My. It's more of, like, the strategy, too, too. Like, we've just collabed for so long and you've. I don't know, like, tell me a little bit about Jacob Gooden first and, like, how the hell you got into this crazy world.

That's a good question, because, yeah, I every, like, every morning and I, When I get to work, I'm like, how, how the hell did this happen? But yeah, like, it really goes Back to. I'm 27 now, but around like 15, 16, I worked in a music studio, in a recording studio, and that's what I wanted to do. And, and then also around that time I started listening to podcasts, but podcast wasn't like what I wanted to do. I just, I wanted to work with musicians and went to college for that. Audio engineering was not the thing. So I switched to business degree with an emphasis in the music industry. And yeah, and then I moved to Nashville. And that industry is like fucking hard to break into. So. So I was like, I was like, oh, shoot, I'm screw. Worked in restaurants and just like hated my life. Pretty much just worked anything I could.

Barbecue?

Yeah, I worked in a barbecue restaurant and I had worked in coffee and, and it was fun. And I look back on it and I'm like, there were enjoyable elements, but it's not for me. And I, I applaud anyone who works in the, you know, restaurant industry. You know, kudos to you. Yeah. And thank you. You know, but yeah, and then, so working there, I really, I realized that I want it out. So I was like, okay, I gotta, I gotta figure out what I want to do. And marketing kind of seemed like the thing. And so I found some free classes online through. It was called GenM at the time and now it's called, it's been rebranded, it's Acadium. And basically it was like free marketing classes, digital stuff, content creation type things. And then they have a piece of it that you can become an intern in and work for. It's like 10 hours a week for three months or something like that for free. But you get a certification and that can lead to jobs. They've built it out a lot more now where they actually have some more like degree like programs. But it was, at the time it was really new or felt new to me. And so all of the people who had reached out to me to ask like, oh, do you want to be my intern? I was like, well, I want a job after this. So are you going to hire me or is it just like you want free work and then I'm out kind of a thing? And your ops manager at the time, Shannon, she was the only one who was like, well, there's maybe a job in it. But it was very like, loose kind of a thing. And I was like, okay, well. And you guys were a podcast and I listened to podcasts. I Was like, I was just attracted to it. And. And yeah, so I posted on social media for you guys, I think was like the first thing. And then, yeah, I started doing the shorts. And then what really, I think, set me apart to you guys was you had an emergency with an edit that had gotten, like, screwed up. And I got a call at like 8 in the morning or something like that. And it was Shannon being like, can you fix this? And I was like, maybe, sure. So spent 15 minutes, whipped up something really rough. I hated it, but I was like, okay, whatever. It's something for them to post. And then I have to go to work kind of a thing. So I sent it. And then while I was at work, I got a call or I got a text that said, you did great. They're super impressed.

And that was it. And then shortly after that, you guys were like, oh, yeah, we just want you to be our editor. I was like, oh, okay, cool. So that just all kind of spiraled. And then, like you said, we started pushing video. You know, anything that we wanted to work on. We just kind of were like. You guys would hand it to me and say, hey, we kind of think we want to go down this rabbit hole. Like, can you research it a little bit and figure out what we need to do? And so that kind of just set me on the trajectory of, like, podcasting, video content creation, you know, being a resource for people to come to, to kind of like, ask those questions, right? How do I get started with this or how do I make a transition?

You know, you became useful very quickly to us. I think that's the overarching thing that I'm hearing. And what I remember, those times, I mean, we're. They're like blurry days, honestly, to me now, because, like, things have changed so much. But the fact is that you were immediately useful. Useful from day one. And yeah, in that time, I do remember that. That emergency edit, because Matt was doing it, and for whatever reason, either he couldn't do it or something else happened or maybe. Maybe it was another editor, but I don't think so. Either way, you stepped in. We're like, trust him now. Like, totally trust him. We see what's possible. I think that was the hardest thing for us to get out of our own way. You know, we were so used to doing it all ourselves or, I don't know, just like, obviously we had Shannon. So, yeah, those were the days. And Shannon's. Shannon's awesome. No longer as part of the company, but she's. She's Cool. And she was great because she got us systemized in a way that we never were before. So that helped us start to delegate and like bring you in and bring help in that it's like our brains were too big for our hands, I guess to like, we couldn't execute everything.

So. Yeah, I think it helps too that I had come because I wanted to work in the music industry. What I wanted to do was manage bands. And so I had done that in college. And that's like, you're working with creatives. Well, creatives are like, they're, you know, I know you just had Justin Breen on and like the visionary thinking and like, it's like the head in the clouds kind of syndrome where like you're really good at thinking about, I want to do xyz. But then the implementation process is like completely lost on you because you're just like, I don't know where to even begin.

Right.

Because there's just a million things going on in the head. And so that's where I sit. Just skill wise, that's where I've sat for a long time. And so I can look at something and kind of hone it in a little bit more to be like, okay, well we can't do it all at once, but like, let's start somewhere, right? And so I think that's what has made me useful, not only to you guys, but other people as well is just that ability to kind of go, okay, well I think step one is let's do this.

You know, that's it. And that's where, I mean, I know that's a massive benefit, like it start. We did that very well. I know you, me and Matt would like brainstorm once a week or twice a week or twice a month or something. I don't know what it cadence. But that's where we realized, oh, dude, Jake has this different perspective and approach. And I know you were learning a lot of the marketing stuff from the. Just the conversations alone, right? Like the episodes you were editing. Absolutely.

I tell people every day, my job is I get paid to learn stuff. And because I listen, I work on shows, not only your show, but like worked on dating shows and the tech industry and comedy and like all these different aspects. And so I'm like, well, I get paid to learn shit all day long. What better job is there than that, right? Like, it's true.

I mean that's. It's a pretty killer spot to be in, man. And yeah, you're first to hear it. You're. You're hearing kind of the raw take of it as well. I feel like podcasts, like lends itself, but also you're, you're seeing the unedited versions which are probably even more fun.

Yeah, 100%.

So without. We don't need to go into all the details because obviously, you know, we worked with Matt, you, you, me, Matt together. There was this period of time where, you know, Matt and I did this crazy little shift in our business in our, in our podcast, which.

Pros and cons to that we'll just say, you know, and the podcast that shook a lot of things up in terms of brand. I know we lost a lot of listeners also. I know a lot of people stayed and got some new ones too. But you, during that period, what you, you kind of played around in that. Because we did the whole pip. For folks who don't know this show, it was a marketing business kind of pivoted to web3. This whole crypto gaming element, I mean, this is just a lesson to be like, oh, okay, too far, guys. But you also kind of navigated in that space. We won't go down that track. But like, you picked up the video side really well. Like you started doing the YouTube thing and learning a bunch on that side with some other folks in the industry.

Yeah, yeah. No, it was huge because it was like switching from an audio centric show that we did have a video component to it, but it was like YouTube was not. It was never like the big push. It was kind of like we kind of wanted it to be, but I think we were just struggling to figure out what that looked like. And then. Yeah. So to switch to, I worked for some web three guys. So it was crypto and NFTs and all of the big bad naughty words that a lot of people get turned off by. But what I did for them was I was more of a producer. They did live content, so it was a lot of live video and live audio. And yeah, I really just like, I helped them develop their show more and create segments in it. And then I was responsible for post once the show had ended, going in and clipping and adding timestamps and really optimizing for YouTube to try to get traffic after the fact. Right. Because if anyone has ever live streamed before, especially the beginning, you understand that like you don't get a lot of traction, you don't get a lot of engagement. It's. But sometimes you can get good viewership after the fact. You just have to optimize the episode for it. And so I Did a lot of that playing in that space. I worked for a data company where we. It was all like, it was the most boring data podcast of all time, but. But learned a lot with them because they were LinkedIn forward, so they were like, doing live streaming on LinkedIn, which is a totally different beast than YouTube. Right. And so I had my hands in these other things that I was like, well, I'm not editing audio anymore, but I'm still doing something kind of in the podcast type space. And so again, learning new skills and just putting myself in a room to be like, okay, yeah, let's just figure it out. You know, they want this, I'll make it happen kind of a thing. And that got me pretty far.

I would say, again, you're useful, man. Like, and if there's a trait here for anyone starting off, you know, or trying to break into the scene anywhere, I mean, that's the biggest thing that I noticed with you is just being useful in general and being useful to people who are going to pay you, but also, like, you're useful to this whole space because now it's like, you're useful to a whole bunch of our clients, partners, people, obviously other people you're working with as well go to you as that source of information. And because you have the experience now and it's like, pretty dang wide, but also specialized. And that's what I want to get into is like, what. So your role, I guess, like, let's talk about, like, what you're doing right now, where you're at with things. Because you teach me stuff every single day. You're, you're talking with some of the tools, teams like descript, for instance, how we, we edit all of our podcasts and produce it, or you do mainly is, you know, it's. You're seeing what's coming. You're actually giving feedback to them. So I guess talk about like, what, what your typical role looks like. Because I wanted to say this because there's a lot of people that are probably watching, listening, that maybe have someone on your team or maybe you want someone on your team, like you like a producer, type that, or even editor, because they're maybe stuck in it themselves or they don't know what to do, where to start. And we can talk about, like, the levels of where we can, you know, kind of how you can stair. Step into that, but because you have a very unique skill set, and I think it's super valuable for most business owners here.

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that a lot of people first of all, let's define, like, editor and producer, right? Because.

I've had a couple people recently who have reached out, and they're like, I need editing services. And I'm like, great. And we jump on the phone and we have a conversation, and then I send them my. My cost, and they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is, like, way too much. And I'm like, well, what do you mean? Like, you're also. You're getting all this value out of it. And they're like, well, I'm just looking for somebody that I can send them timestamps, and they're just going to cut stuff out and they're going to do whatever. And I'm like, oh, well, then we don't. We don't fit well together. Because my goal is not only to do that for you, but it's also to look at your show as a whole and. And attempt to try to make it better, right? There's going to be a period where I'm only going to edit and we're gonna. I'm gonna be learning how you do your thing, but then there's gonna be a producer side. And that's where the, like, I said, the producing kind of comes into it, where it's like, we're looking at what's in the industry, what's hitting really hard right now. And then how does your show. Can we mimic it? Can we copy pasta? Some of it, right? What can we do to, like, pull some of that into your show? You know? And so if someone's not open to that, then, like, for me, that's not. We're not gonna work well together. But for some people, for some editors, the, like, they're just gonna get a list of notes, right? And. And that's the way that you work, right? And I think a lot of people at the beginning who are hiring an editor for the first time, that's how they're gonna work, is they already know what they want to do, because most likely they've been editing their stuff already and they have a flow and. And all those things. Then there are the people who don't know what they want, right? And they need somebody who has that visionary thinking to kind of be like, okay, here's what we can kind of make out of this, right? And then in coaching you on, like, well, let's try this, you know, and see if it works and see if it resonates with your audience. And sometimes it will go really well, and sometimes it'll be a complete, not a flop, I think of, like, early on, when I was on your. When I was working on your show, we redid the intro music and we all loved it. We thought it was fantastic. And it still is a sick beat to this day. But it wasn't the beatboxing intro that everyone was used to, and people were like, I want the beatboxing back. And it made sense. It was fine. People were used to it, but it was just. We took a shot in the dark for something that we were like, eh, this could be better. But the audience didn't like that. Right. And so. But that was kind of a call that we had made together, right? We were working together on so.

Which has me thinking in my brain, because I'm like, it's a totally different. There's not really. Because that was just a beat. I just, like, beatboxed.

It's like, I used to pump up my dog with that. For some reason, she loved it. I'm like, why don't I have it on here anymore? I'm like, I know it was Matt and I on there as the intro, but, like, I can apply it here still. Just redo the words, you know?

Ye.

It's got me thinking, dude. All right, go on. Sorry.

So that's, I think, like I said, kind of creating that differential between what is an editor and what is a producer is important because sometimes people know what they're looking for, and sometimes people don't know what they're looking for. And that's, again, where the producer role comes in. Like I said, most of the people I work with, they're looking for a producer. They're, like, beginning of their show, they're looking for best practices, that kind of thing. And.

I can't make all those decisions for you. It's still your brand. But, you know, and my pivot really came with, like, I worked with you guys, and at the beginning, I was very much like, well, what do you want done to this? Right? And then. And then it slowly evolved into, like, hey, I have this idea, like, and me being kind of scared to, like, pitch it. And then you guys went, yeah, go for it. You know? And so it's made me be more vocal about, let's check. Let's change this and that to. To make the show better, potentially. Right.

I think it's the best feedback when you do that. And I suggest. And I know it's tough at first because you don't know, like, what are they going to be receptive to or what am I. But, like, I think it's the best thing when anyone on the team does that, you know, Brooke on the team or Katie, you know, we have them. I totally like the fact that you're on the team. I trust you, you know, and I feel like anyone listening, if you hire someone, I hope you trust them as well. And you want to have that, that two way conversation and open feedback because like everything's open to change. And yeah, I mean, if it's siloed and it's just being one, one way directed, then we can quickly become irrelevant, you know, if we're just too much in our box.

And that goes back to like, what know what you want when you're hiring somebody too is like if you really just want an editor who's going to, you're going to tell them every change you want done and they're just going to implement that, that's great. You know that. And you can find somebody who does that because there's a lot of people, there's a lot of editors who that is, that is how they operate. They're like, tell me what to do and I will make it happen. But if you need more than that, right, then you need to include that. And I think that's where people get lost and then they have issues with hiring, you know, their first person. It's also, when it's your business, it's really hard to let go of stuff. You know, I have that within my own business is like training new people to do what I do is like, it's really hard for me because it's like. But I'm just, I just do it, you know, it's just, I, I know it. And so it's like hard to let it go, you know, and then, well, if it comes back and it's not to my quality standards or whatever, it's like, well, you know, like I could have just done it and then it would have been right, you know, but so knowing what you want can be really helpful. And one thing that I do and I encourage a lot of business owners to do is like when I book, when I work with a new client, we always do a test at the beginning. And it's like for me, it's one episode. So I'm going to do one episode. You get a discounted rate, you know, and at the end of it, if we, if one of us isn't feeling it, we could just walk away and it's all good, there's no hard feelings, you know, and if it goes really well, then, okay, do you want to do a Second test, do you want it, like, then we kind of negotiate. Maybe then we do. The second test is like, hey, let's do six episodes, you know, and so kind of keeping it in that window of like, we're getting to know each other and we're getting to, like, work as a team and figure out what that looks like, you know, that can be really helpful as well for a lot of people is like, just because you hire somebody, it doesn't. You know, you set the. You can set the rules. Right. And a good editor will also know that they. They have limits and they, you know, hopefully communicate those really well. That was a thing I struggled with for the long time, was like, I just needed money, so I would take anybody and everybody. It's like, now I can be choosy about, like, I know who I work well with and things like that. And so I can be picky. You know, it's good.

And you should. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. In the beginning, of course. Be scrappy.

Yeah. Be.

Be useful still, you know, it still have that same mindset, I think that always carries over no matter what phase. But, yeah, being choosier and knowing your. Your lane.

Yeah. Work with anybody and everybody because again, you never know what you're gonna learn. And if you're in a bad. If you end up in a bad working situation, the. You just leave, you know, and that's easier said than done. But, like.

But you just do it, you know, just like, go get something else to do. It's fine. You know, you. You'll be okay. And then take the lessons that you learned. And. And so, you know, looking at your next potential client who's coming in, okay, are we gonna work well together? Are these green flags waving in the air? Are they red?

What?

You know, do I need to proceed with caution? All those types of things you learn from your mistakes. Right. It's like, I've been doing this for five years. I still make mistakes on the regular, and I gotta suck up and own it. But, like, I've also learned enough that, like, we can't. I. I can. I've avoided a lot of mistakes now at this point too, so.

Oh, yeah, and you're right because, like, if it's not fitting for. I just actually recorded a solo on this. You have not heard it yet, but it's like, check yourself. Make, like, do a little self audit. And like, are you feeling it? Is it aligned with your goals, with whatever you're working on? Even in the early days, like, work with. For one, you know, but like, the red flags, you know, Dan Ryan, who is a good buddy of mine, likes to say, red flags come in bunches. Like, they. They come in. They come together. It's not just one of them, typically, but if there's two, oh, watch out, you know, and get out, because you're okay. And it's about you. Like, we got one yolo. You think? I. One life, as far as I know. So make it. Joe Polish. I was just hanging out at his genius network. He called the easy, lucrative, and fun elf. Like, create those types of experiences, and it's easier said than done. And some people, like, laugh at that. Kind of go, ha, ha. Yeah, make it easy. Make it. Do it like, there's nothing stopping you from doing that. Because we have control more than anything.

Yeah. 100%. It's. Yeah. And it's a tough lesson to learn.

It's tough, but it's what it is. All right, so you define the editor producer thing, and I think that's super helpful because that is kind of an unknown. I didn't know that for a long time either. But to have that elevated kind of producer role is super helpful. I'm kind of curious of. Because there's, like, two things I think would be good here is kind of like, what we've learned in terms of stair stepping into content. Like, we're having a little pre conversation on this, and also, you know, we'll get into trends and tools and the stuff that we think are, like, the best to kind of keep your eye on. Maybe start using, experiment with. But like, let's talk. Let's. Let's talk about.

Maybe what we're doing right now, but also talk about, like. Because I think that we're due for a shift in terms of focusing on what we can do really well because it's easy to spread yourself and go everywhere with the AI tools that we all have access to now, where it's like, you know, you got audio, you got video, you can have all the clips, the shorts. You could be on social, you could be on all these networks. And it's like, where the fuck's my time? You know? And it's like. And then you look at your analytics, you're like, what's working? Nothing. Or maybe one thing. You know, it's like, how do we refine and really focus on the right stuff? I'm going to pause the episode really fast and shout out another show that's on the podcast network over at HubSpot. It's the audio destination for business professionals. This is Mistakes that Made Me. It's hosted by Iman Esmail. She is interviewing successful business owners and talking about, hey, what are those mistakes? What are the failures? What are the things that you hate to talk about that we can all learn from? I mean, like, let's be honest, do you like to talk about your mistakes? Probably not. Well, that's what she's talking about. And it's going to be there in is there waiting for you to listen so you can learn from those lessons and learn how to get past them or navigate around those big boulders on your own journey to success. So go listen to Mistakes that Made Me. Wherever you get your podcasts, are you juggling multiple tools to run your online business? Well, thankfully there is a better way and it's called Kartra. So with Kartra, boosting your income has never been easier. And that's because it's the ultimate all in one platform for online success. Success offering every tool you need to grow your business. So imagine building pages, funnels, courses, autoresponders and checkouts all in one place and all for one affordable price. So the best part about Kartra is that you can automate just about everything. So it's like having a team of experts working around the clock to help you earn more. Now's the time to streamline and scale your business. Visit hustleandflowchart.com Kartra for a free 30 day trial. That's hustle and flowchart.com K A R.

T R A so you mentioned the stair stepping thing, which is what we were talking about before and I, I watched a video recently, I cannot remember the guy's name. To save my life. Yeah, I'm gonna find it. It'll be in the show notes. If not, just don't blame Joe. It was my fault, but I think it was one of the guys who, who worked on at Think Media and he had, it was like a five stage approach to content creation and he was speaking specifically for video creators. But like stage one was like, just record something and publish it. Like no editing? No. Like, don't go fancy with it. Just like you have to get something out in the world, right? And then there's stage two, which is like you start to refine it, right? You've worked that muscle a little bit, you start to refine it. Maybe you're writing a script, maybe you're like doing minor editing, you know, but like very minimal, you know, and, and then stage three was where you really start to pivot into content. Creator level, where you're like, I'm editing my content, I'm creating thumbnails. I'm starting to hone in on maybe one or two social media platforms. But you're taking it more seriously. And you're not that you weren't taking it seriously before, but you were just trying to get those muscles working, right? And now you're taking it to, like, now I'm going to the next level, right? And so that level three is that big. It's a big pivot. And then level four and five kind of go hand in hand. But it's the. It's the furthering that where you're like, ab testing thumbnails and you're like, on every platform known to man. And you're. You're kind of like doing the Gary Vaynerchuk approach, right? And then you're getting to, like, Mr. Beast level, where you're like, my videos are doing, like, 30 million views, and I have a team of 30 people who work for me and these amazing things, right?

Most people think that they got to start around level three or four, right? Where you, like, just are going, you know, you've got good thumbnails, and you've got good this and that and the other. It's like, no, you just actually have to start with, like, making good content, making something that's valuable to somebody, even if it's five people, you know, and that's been, like, kind of a big shift in my head because I produce for a lot of people, but I suck at making my own content. And that's just the reality of it. And I'm going more and more that route where I'm like, okay, I need to, like, make my own content. But because I make such polished stuff for other people, yeah, of course I can jump the line a little bit, but I. This week, I realized I'm like, nah, fuck that. Honestly, like, I just need to, like, post a video or I just need to, like, do something that's rough and tumbled, you know, it's because I don't have those muscles yet of, like, actually creating the content. I have the muscles of editing the content. And so, you know, but once I get comfortable with the content creation, Porsche, then, you know, my editing can be leaps and bounds ahead of some other people, things like that. But, yeah, I think it's just starting where you're at, you know, and just you deliver value. You're gonna find an audience that's, you know, whatever your topic is, there's riches in the niches. We said that before we were recording, you know, and finding your people is like, it's, it's hard, but it's also like not that hard, you know, it's not.

But you got to start by putting stuff out there. And I know we both helped launch shows, we've consulted with people at various stages, but it is a very common thing in the early stages that almost everybody wants. It's like we need to be everywhere, we need to be omnipresent or whatever. Like just show up everywhere in all the channels. Because that's what Gary says. Gary Vee or.

I've said that sometimes, but at the same time, just because he can doesn't mean he should. And you know, like for the longest time this podcast Hustle and Flowchart was audio only. And obviously all podcasts was mainly audio only. And we always struggled with long form video podcast stuff. I mean, and honestly, most people do still to this day, even though YouTube's pushing things more and more, there's, there's ways to do it correctly that I'm still learning, we're still learning. But at the same time it's like, well, how about hone in on the channel that's doing really well, like double down, triple down, even more because that can grow. And I think, well, I'll just talk about like my, myself. And I know why Matt and I back in the day started to do it, but why is like you get this bigger reach, you know, and it's like, oh, then that looks attractive to if we're maybe trying to attract bigger guests onto our podcast or maybe maybe get sponsorship money or further and try to get more affiliate or product sales, whatever conversion. And it was Alex Hormozi. He just posted a video recently talking about. He's another one that puts it out there and is like, hey, put content everywhere, make a shit ton of videos, put them on all the channels, you know, talk about all walks of your life. Like he was talking about everything, not just business, it'd be like this relationships and all that stuff too. And he realized, oh well, it's actually the videos that are on YouTube, not the shorts and all these things that are converting the ones focused on business and actually like in line with what he is selling. So, you know, he realized all that through his experiments for like a year plus or whatever of cranking hundreds of pieces out a week, you know, or whatever it was. And I think a lot of people put that as like, oh, that's the bar. Like Gary Vee, Alex Hermosi, they're so loud and they're everywhere and they have a lot of awareness. But does that matter? Like is it getting you to the point of what you're actually looking for? Like the, what's the KPI that matters? Is it leads conversions? Are you going for the views? You better be fucking good if you're going to do that. You need like millions if you're going for that creator kind of, you know, style 100%.

No. Because one thing I realized in the time that we didn't work together and I was working on that data analytics show that was primarily on LinkedIn. They were crushing on LinkedIn. They get thousands of views on these videos and I was like, what the hell? Like it's the most boring, it's data stuff. It's a hyper specific use case scenario. The people who need that use case exist on LinkedIn. And so they had figured that out and they were like honing hard in on LinkedIn. I came in my dumb ass self and I go, we need to be everywhere. We need to be on YouTube and we need to be over here. And they were kind of thinking along those lines. And that wasn't, I'm not going to say it was the worst idea ever. We did some really cool stuff. We were able to like push some stuff on TikTok that did well. We were able to like focus on YouTube to a degree where it did reach a new audience and stuff like that. But it was, it was interesting because it went from.

They started to lose focus of like LinkedIn being the primary and it was like, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Right? You know, and they're not necessarily making money off of it, but they're getting thousands of views, they're getting all these reshares, they're getting, they're doing well on this platform. And then we just took it for granted and we went and focused on something else. That's again, what you're talking about is like don't, don't harm the thing. That's like feeding you just to go pursue something else because that's what you think you need to do. And so I've been telling more and more people that it's like when they get started, it's like just let's pick two areas that you want to be on. Right? If it's an audio only show, then we're going to just like audio only. Okay, so what's that secondary niche that we need to hit for you? Like where's that secondary platform? Is it Instagram? Is it YouTube. I like, it could be kind of hard to kind of determine what it is, but it's like, okay, let's run some experiments. Let's see what, where your people are. You know, I have a use case right now where I work on a show that is, is a, it's kind of a therapy show. It's called Seven on Sundays. And they talk to a lot of women and men who have been like sexually abused or been in traumatic environments. And so it's kind of a therapy session and it's anonymous and, and stuff, so videos out on that one because, you know, sometimes we have to do voice changes on people and stuff like that and we use, you know, they fake names and all this stuff. So. But we're like, where else can we put this besides just an audio platform? Okay, well is it Instagram? Is it, you know, and then how, how do we do that? Right? It's like audiograms don't work for everybody, but in this case maybe audiograms or doing, you know, audio over some B roll footage that we created from AI, you know, and so we're testing that out to see what that looks like. I don't know if it's going to work yet. It's a test, right. And, but we were like strategic. You know, when we sit down and brainstorm about it, we're like, what is the one platform that we think this would actually resonate? It's probably Instagram. It's not going to be LinkedIn. You know, you can, we can easily count that one out. But you know, so honing that in and then, yeah, like you said, not feeling like I got to be everywhere. That's.

It'S a time suck.

It really is. And I think you're. Because you're absolutely right. I like the fact that, okay, if you're creating content, I still think that video, like the way that we're recording right now is using Riverside to record our audio and video. Now does that mean our video needs to be the forward facing thing that we know that like we gotta deck this suckier out and make it look like a Mr. B's video? Alex? No. Hell no. And the audio is the core. It's, it's the, it's the core of everything. And, and I don't think that's ever going to change on this show. At least on this specific show because it's where the foundation is. It's established, but at the same time doesn't say, you know, well, back to I was getting ahead of myself. It's like, find that core thing. So if it's YouTube, that's cool, you know, like, there's a lot of great benefits to having a show on YouTube. It's got the platform, that whole bit that can help you spread algorithm. And I think a social platform, which YouTube is a social platform. But yeah, like something like you said, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, X could be that too. Because I know that helped Matt really push out his YouTube channel is that he fed it through X. Because that audience, the AI audience, tech audience, is on X or Twitter. You know, LinkedIn. I know a lot of folks are starting to find us more on LinkedIn, and we're seeing traffic come that way, Instagram for us.

That's probably one that I'm gonna suggest that we end up dropping. Unless we can automate, which we'll talk about, like a tool like Opus or something that can just, like, you know what, we're making the clips anyway, push it out there. You can schedule that out and no one has to manage it. Like, I think it's just like, don't distract our resources. But even that is probably not totally necessary either. But yeah, like, I think doing the tests are smart to figure out, like, what's your core. But then what are the platforms that can help kind of introduce you to more people? You know, that. That has that social element that can kind of spread the word.

The other key thing there is, like, don't bite off more than you can chew. I was having a talk with my wife this morning because about if we're going to make YouTube videos or we're going to do whatever for our personal brands. What. What is the time that we can commit to this, right? Is it one video a week? Is it one video a month? Is it one video every six months? Like, one every six months is not a good idea, but. But one a week, that's pretty doable for a lot of people. Twice a month. That's pretty doable for a lot of people, you know, and so finding whatever that level of, like, commitment that you can. You can do is awesome because as soon as you start to see returns on that investment, then it will inspire you to do more of it, right? And so you go from I'm doing one video a week to, oh, now I'm doing two videos a week to, oh, now I'm paying the bills, to now I'm doing three videos a week. And then, you know, maybe it stops at that, but. And maybe then I'm focusing on Instagram or I'm focusing on Vertical video or, you know, whatever. You make the pivots and the changes as you go. And that's what's cool about content creation is like we never know what's gonna hit. So, like, you just gotta try, you know, it's like people want a formula of like the get rich quick thing. It's like everybody does. No.

It'S about finding your people, you know, who will buy your product or buy the products that you promote, you know?

Two, two notes. I wanna, I wanna say to. To kind of put a bow on everything we're doing is like for one and maybe we do a little rapid on the trends and tools is.

Make it your own and have fun with it. That's something that you and I have been talking about a lot is like again, elf, like the whole easy, lucrative and fun that applies here as well. There's this tweet that I shared with you from Greg Eisenberg and he has a podcast that's now called Was it Startup? Startup something. He just changed the name. Point is, he has redefined his own. He changed it to the Startup Ideas podcast and it was something else before a hundred episodes in. He basically got bored with his show and like renamed it and changed the way that he talks on the podcast. He doesn't compare himself to interviewers like Tim Ferriss and Lex Friedman is what he was saying here. And essentially made it his own. He made it goofy, he made it fun. He started giving out awards to the startup company. Like, you know, just kind of creating his own thing with it. And it, honestly, it got my creative juices flowing. That's what it says it does for him. And actually, what do you know, the metrics go up too, because you're having more fun. It shows on the podcast and you're not following some script or what you think you should be doing. Like, you're making it your own so you connect with your audience. You're putting yourself out there. The guy's like recording on a laptop in a pretty crappy mic, I think, and looks like a goofball half the time, it looks like. But he's having fun. You know, it's like, so you don't need this crazy studio setup that you see a lot of people, the creators doing with like lit backgrounds and all this fun things. Like, it's cool. I've caught in my head and stopped me from producing content because of all that shit too. And it's like, no need. Just. Just literally could walk outside with your iPhone, maybe make it decent audio, and you could probably create a pretty good show. Just walking around your backyard or down the street, you know, if you really want it to.

And probably 100%. I mean, like, I'm in my living room, dining room. Like, there's a TV right there. There's a couch blanket that I didn't pick up. It's, like, very real. And I don't know if you can see it, but there's, like, garbage over there. You know, it's like I just kind of said this morning, you know. Yeah. Exactly. How disrespectful.

Yeah.

The one time I give you on this show.

My gosh. Yeah. Never coming back again.

But yeah, to your point, it's like, start with what you got. Was it Chris Kurmet says, who's always like, start messy. Is that. Start ugly. That's what it is. Yeah. Start ugly and clean it up as you go. You know, and very much to your point is like. And because you never know. You never. It's. It's. People resonate with people. They, you know, the average person is not sitting there watching a video going like, oh, my God, there's an empty Starbucks cup, like, sitting in the background, like, who cares?

You know, you saw what's on my desk right now. You would be like, damn, that Joe's a messy stuff.

Exactly.

Desk. When he dies. And there's a thick of all over the place. Not compared.

But.

But yeah. And. And, yeah, people resonate with people and they could forgive, like, the flubs. Right. The. The Ifs. The. I. You know, there's double takes in here. I'm. There's going to be stuff that I cut out of here, and it will be obvious that I cut it out.

That's on you.

That's on me. Yeah. And that's the hardest part about editing yourself. Like.

Oh, I was going to say, you might have your wife help you out with this one.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to make her do the first draft because. Yeah, but. How you doing, Maddie? But, yeah, and to your point, like, like, the tools are easy. Pick up your phone. You don't need a microphone. You know, as you. Yeah, pick up. I had a continuity camera. Continuity camera from your iPhone. Like, yeah, like, I. That's the easiest piece. I always just tell people, I'm like, you can just start with your phone. You gotta. Most people have a laptop computer. They can, you know, write a blog, you know, whatever you need to make content. It's like, it's right there in front of you. You know, just do it. You do not need to go buy 400 camera. 600 cameras are more than 400. What am I talking about? But, like, you don't need to go spend a bunch of money to. To make some really cool stuff. Those tools help. Once you've already exercised that muscle, you're in the pattern, right? And then it's like, oh, okay, yeah. Me going and buying these wireless mics to hook to my phone would make life so much easier. Okay, great. Then you go do that, right? Buying a podcasting mic, you know, this is like, the easiest investment. I say for a lot of people, it's like, it's expensive. But I'm like, go buy them. If you want to be a guest on podcasts, you know, start with your just basic headphones. That's fine. But then, you know, once you got six. Six episodes into it or whatever, go buy a microphone. It's. It's pretty cheap. Most people could save up to. To grab one.

You know what's funny is.

I'm surprised you didn't notice this. Or maybe it just sounds really good. I am not using my good microphone. I just realized that I tried to mute myself and I coughed, but it came through. I was like, how did that come through? I'm like, I'm using my freaking laptop microphone right now. So.

I don't know how many times that's happened because I hear myself coming through the board. We're rolling with it.

Yeah. See?

Total pros over here, guys.

Easy pivot. Easy pivot into the tools right here. We use descript for all our editing. Descript has this amazing feature. It's called Studio Sound. Most likely, all of Joe's audio is going to be run through Studio Sound. It's going to sound like it actually came out of his pod micro. It didn't. Came from his crappy laptop speakers. It's all good, though. We're gonna make it. We're gonna make it roll, you know, make it work. So.

Oh, man, that's great. I was just like.

Well, to be honest, I did. I did a podcast interview last week. I got on the call. Nothing worked. I had spent hours the day before, like, prepping everything for myself. None of my shit worked. When I got on the call, it was like my mic was muted, and I couldn't figure out how to unmute it. And, like, all that stuff, stuff happens, people. It's all good. Like, you just. Just roll with the punches. It's all good, you know?

And now I'm taking away. No, the microphone's actually just for my own ears, actually. I'm the only one that could be. Oh, geez. Yeah. If you're watching that video, it's just crazy. All right, yeah, moving on. I'm embarrassed.

But see, but you guys will hear. You'll hear the difference. Maybe I'll leave. Maybe I'll leave a segment in this. In this portion. How about this? I'll leave a segment of Joe without the studio sound. You guys can hear how God awful is audio is gonna be. It can't be that bad. I haven't complained about it. And then. And then we'll. We'll hear what studio sounded. You guys can, you know, comment below.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please let us know what you think, man. All right, so hit us with the. So, yeah, descript main tool, obviously, video, audio. There's so many options, but keep it simple at the end of the day.

Yeah.

What are some of these other tools, like, with AI that like descript? Honestly, like, you are pretty tight with their company and they're coming out with a ton of stuff, so that seems like the good, like, foundational tool.

Absolutely. If you're going to edit, record, you want to do podcast interviews, Vertical video, like descript is really easy. What makes it amazing is it's like editing a Word document, which most people know how to do. A lot of people get intimidated by, like, timeline style of video editing. So descript makes it really easy. June 4th, they're rolling out a huge redo of, like, everything. So depending on when this episode comes out, Most likely after June 4, all of that will be accessible. They have a ton of AI functionality. So, like, they have Chat GPT basically built into that thing. You can ask for titles, you can ask for summaries, you can ask it to find clips, you can reformat everything. You want vertical video, horizontal video, you want a square video, whatever you want. You know, if audio only, audiograms. What it's. It's an insane tool. Like, go check it out If. If you're thinking about doing any level of editing. They also own squadcast, which we're using Riverside, but it's basically the same as Riverside. It's basically an amped up version of Zoom, so to speak. And it's great. If you have. If you have a podcast and you have an editor and you record with Zoom, do them a favor and get Riverside or get SquadCast. Um, they will. Thank you very, very much. That's my little plug there. And then, like, yeah, I mean, tool wise, like, Chat GPT is freaking fantastic. We talk about cast magic all the time. We use that I'm in there daily. I'm sure you are too. Basically AI tools to help us like take already existing pieces of content like this and make written versions of it, find clips out of it, like do titles, summaries, all that kind of stuff. Amazing tool there for me personally, one that I use on the, on the regular at this point. Fathom. I don't know if it's a IO or AI, but I'll find it. Fathom AI basically is a plugin for zoom calls. So when I'm doing coaching and things like that with people, I have that going. It's basically an automated. It's a. It's another person who comes into your zoom call with you. It's your note taker and after the fact, it breaks it all down and makes a summary. It does checklists, it does all kinds of things. You can plug it directly into ChatGPT or Claude or whatever you like like and have it pull more stuff out there. But it's fantastic because I can assign people to do things and then I can send them an email with a follow up that says, hey, here's your to do list. And also like, here's my to do list. Like that way we can keep each other accountable.

It's Fathom Video.

Video, yeah, Fathom video. That's like in my daily rotation. But yeah, the script and that are like my two just like big time go to, you know, and then your phone like right, you just. The video. There's a ton of tools out there, you know, if you want to go really deep on tools like reach out to me. Like if you're looking for something specific, I'm happy to chat with people. But yeah, you nailed it, man.

And the only other thing I would, I would add in there is to this is what I presented the other day is like capture your thoughts and organize them. There's tools to do that. The Oasis, I believe it is. That's the app I use and it's on the app store. The Oasis.com yeah is. I think there's a free trial, there's some minor paid upgrades, but the fact is you just capture your thoughts wherever you're at in your phone. That's how I like to play my solo episodes or even drum up ideas for a guest episode. So it's just a, it's a great way to get everything out of your brain into some kind of format that can create content from.

So yeah, 100% you, you inspired me to do more of that. I use Otter, but I need to Try the Oasis. I haven't, but Otter was just. I already had an account, so I was like, easy peasy.

I mean, Otter, similar idea. And then you just throw that into, yeah, chat, GPT or whatever.

Exactly. If you're like me and you juggle or like Joe and you juggle like a billion things a day sometimes just like, speaking it into existence.

Yeah.

It just gets it out of your brain. And then you're like, okay, now I can focus.

I like that. Speak it to existence. Oh, I'm happy we did that here. And.

Yeah, tech. Tech Gremlins. Or at least. I don't know what the hell happened on the microphone side of me, but it's great. I'm stoked we did this, Jacob, and we're gonna do more. I have ideas on how we can. We'll talk offline, but I want to make it more fun and engaging, these interviews, and also make them more shareable, you know, because I like the riffing and, like, these kind of episodes where, you know, things that we're working on and then talking about what we're learning, what we're not liking so much or maybe things we're shifting has always been helpful for people. I know that. So what's.

It's re. It's real. Right. It's like, it's problem solving in real time to some degree. And then also, like, you know, as an audience member, if you want to hear something different, like, let us know because, you know, or there's specific topic. We always shout out the, like, the. The one thing. Right. Hustleflowchart.com one thing. Like, go there. Let us know what you want to hear kind of thing. You know, reach out to us. You know, we want to know how to make this show better for you.

Yep. Always, man. So thank you. And yeah, definitely reach out to Jacob. We'll put a. I don't know, something. The show notes or something. Yeah. For them to contact you.

Or I'm the Jacob Gooden on all platforms, so it's that easy. You can also just shoot an email to thejacobgoodenmail.com, whatever works best for you, you know, and that's. That's. That's the best way to keep up to tabs with what I'm doing. And, like, I have my own show coming out soon, so I can't wait on the lookout.

It's been. It's been a while, so. Yeah, I'm stoked. And don't hesitate to reach out to Jacob. He's the man. Obviously, you've heard it here, so we'll keep the fun going. Jacob appreciates you so much, man. Yeah, we'll keep having fun together, so.

Thanks for having me. Five years in the making. Five years in the making. Let's go. Made it happen.