Therapy Session 👥 Behind-The-Scenes with the Legends of Online Marketing

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Float Shark podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear. Yo, yo, yo.

What's happening?

Are we gonna talk quietly the entire podcast?

We sound always great on these things, so it doesn't matter what. But where are we?

We are sitting in on location, on.

Location, recording a podcast, actually. We probably should make sure that we're able to board this plane in time and figure out where our gate's at.

Yeah, we have an hour until we got to board.

I don't know, maybe a little sooner based on my clock. We'll see.

Yeah, we got roughly an hour.

Yeah. So we'll see how long this goes. We are sitting next to a gate that doesn't have anybody, but a plane might show up and then all of a sudden might get really loud. And that's cool too.

We'll just roll with it. But you probably will hear background noise from the airport.

Yeah, this is a unique one.

This would be a unique one. But yeah, we actually just got done doing. Yeah, that was in Delray Beach, Florida. It was for Rich Sheffrin's CSIB event. We had an episode that came out.

Coalition to Save Internet Business. Yes.

We had an episode that came out a couple weeks ago where we interviewed Rich about the event and what we were gonna be doing there. And pretty much everybody who's anybody in the marketing world kind of showed up to this thing. Like Russell Brunson was there. Dean Graziosi was there.

Jeff Walker.

Jeff Walker. Perry Marshall, obviously. Rich Sheffrin. Mike Phil. Same. I mean, we can list off tons and tons of names of who was there, but it was like Dennis Yu was there.

Dennis is. Yeah. And you've heard a lot of these guys or some of these guys on the show, but future ones, definitely.

Yeah.

And that's what's really cool. And this. This whole thing was like a 24 hour live stream. You probably heard us talking about it if you're on your email list or on the blog. But actually, Rich was on the show, so. Yeah, probably tuned into that. But this was. I mean, talk about legends.

Yeah.

Just everybody in the same roof like I was. There's literally billions of dollars of net worth under one roof.

Yeah. Yeah. And we're gonna.

2 million plus in art on the walls.

Yeah. And probably thousands of dollars in alcohol and cigars.

Yeah.

Probably tens of thousands of dollars in alcohol and cigar.

Was wild, man.

And. But yeah, you know, we're gonna get into some of the. The big Takeaways and some of our thoughts around the event and things like that.

Looking at my notes just to jog my memory.

But before we do, I want to remind you that we are taking notes on this episode as well, like we always do.

And these notes, actually, this whole model, like, we're explaining it to a lot of people, they're just like, dude, what is this thing? You know? Yeah, like there. I think the whole newsletter from a podcast and all that stuff is actually rad. So hustleandflowchart.com comp or c o m.

P or you can text the word comp c o m p to 38470.

We don't have kazoos.

No, we don't have kazoos.

Actually, I do have mine, but it might be a little weird.

Did you really bring your kazoo with you this time?

It was just on the bottom of my backpack.

Yeah, right. You wanted to do a kazoo jam session while we were out here.

So get the notes, because I don't know what we're going to talk about here, but there's a lot of takeaways.

There'll be takeaways.

There'll be a lot of takeaways because.

We have our notes from the event and we're going to share some of our takeaways. So those takeaways will be in the notes.

Ye. Yeah. And so I guess you know where to start here. We didn't even know what it was going into here. We knew there was going to be a live stream. There was actually a mastermind in front of the live stream.

Yeah. Well, do we want to start with, like, how we even got the invite? Like, what led to this point?

Yeah, I can. So it all started basically eight years ago or so when I was doing the whole video agency business, doing a lot of launches and, you know, designing slides and sales videos for big things. I was building up a network and there was a guy named Mars Burden who runs a company called Launchman.

Yeah.

And he's basically if you ever seen, like, a live stream online in the online space, I mean, even working for guys like Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, and stuff like that. And I think, I mean, just all these massive names. He's done a lot of Frank Kern stuff and, you know, Jeff Walker.

Yeah. My first experience with Mars was I did a live stream with Dan Kennedy and Joe Polish back in either 2010 or 2011 somewhere around there. That was my first introduction to Mars. But I didn't really get to know Mars like you did back Then, yeah, you sort of really bonded. And we talked the same language.

That's why. And he. Yeah, it's just really cool because he told me. He's like, there's just something unique with you. You're good people. You do what you say, and, you know, you're just kind of fun to be around. So basically, he's like, hey, that character. Eight years later, you know, we just kind of stayed in touch. We never actually worked as, like, a client relationship kind of thing. It was just more like, hey, this guy's cool. He's doing similar stuff. And I just hung around, help each other out. And it turned into, hey, Rich wants to get on podcasts. We're doing this big live stream. You guys are podcasting. You have a big network. Yeah, let's. Let's. Let's work together.

Yeah. So we ended up. We ended up working closely with Rich to help get Rich on a whole bunch of podcasts. So if you've been hearing from Rich a lot, and he seems like he's been, like, popping onto a lot of podcasts lately, that's probably why what we were doing for him was helping him get on a whole bunch of shows. And then he's also planning on launching his own podcast. And we're going to work a little bit behind the scenes on helping him with his podcast.

Secrets of Being Rich. Is the working title secret.

Yep.

So, yeah, so that's the story, the backstory, and what's really cool is, you know, going into this event, there are a lot of people we knew, but a lot of people we didn't know. Yeah. And, you know, a decent amount that we knew personally or we had enough history where we were able to quickly, you know, get into, like, oh, man, it just felt like a bunch of buddies hanging out. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of people there that we've had on the podcast in the past and built a relationship with their. Went out to their events, you know, and, like, Perry Marshall was one we had on the podcast. Sort of built a relationship with him through emails and, you know, we made some training for his members area, and he recorded a podcast with us, but we never actually met him in person until this week. And we got to sit down and, you know, chat with him for. I mean, I chatted with him for probably a good hour, and you chatted with him for probably an hour beyond that.

You know, we talked all about, I mean, all, like, his Evolutions 2.0 book. He's doing some cool stuff there that we'll probably have him back on the show and talking about that because it's super fascinating. Todd Herman was one that we actually met in person years and years and years back. But, yeah, we were hanging out with him. He's been on the show. Alter Ego Effect.

Ryan Levesque was one that's been on the show, and we'd kind of emailed back and forth over the years, but finally got to spend time with him in person. I'd never met him in person before until this event.

Yeah, I mean, it's just. It was. I've never seen, like, a. Just a collection. A collection of folks.

Yeah.

But, you know, like, everyone gathering of this caliber, and. And really, I would say just this kind of influence.

Yeah.

And it's not. It doesn't mean, like, how much money, but, like, literally the influence that these people have had on literally millions of people. I mean, Russell Brunson was there as well, Dean Graciosi, like, these guys. Everyone was flying in to support Rich, which is really cool, because Rich Sheffern was pretty freaking massive for, you know, having us come around. Yeah. In strategy. So, Yeah.

I mean, it sort of brings me to a topic that I wanted to get into on this episode, which is the topic of imposter syndrome, because one of the things that sort of was going around the room a little bit was, you know, everybody had it. Like, these people that you think are at, like, the highest level of their industry, like the titans of their business, like, we're going around the room talking to people in this mastermind. So there was a mastermind on the first day. And then. And then, you know, five hours after the mastermind ended, the livestream started and went for 24 hours straight. Rich, I think, was awake for 48 hours straight through. So fricking at least. Balls to the wall, hats off to him.

There's a lot of monster energy turning straight.

Yeah.

He was like the orange flavor.

A lot of caffe was drank, and a lot of cigars were smoked during the thing. If you watch the live stream, you know.

Yeah.

It's all recorded, but, yeah, like, as we. We kind of talk to different people around this event, you sort of learned that the imposter syndrome thing is kind of, you know, it's a real thing no matter what level you're at. Like, we're talking to some of the biggest level people in our industry, some of the biggest names that, like, everybody's heard of. If you've been in Internet marketing, if you haven't been living under a rock, you know, most of the people that were there, and you talk to any of them, and almost all of them go, I don't know what I'm doing in this room. I don't know how I got this invite. Right. And like, these are the biggest names and we're going to this event. Kind of feeling similar going, man, I don't know how we got this invite. I don't know what, what people see in us that makes them think we're on this caliber. But when you get into this room, you actually realize that most of these people feel the exact same way.

Yeah, no, that was the. That was the feeling. And what's also really cool. So in addition to that, there's a lot of. I was hearing a lot of stories just in general with these folks on their trek to becoming more influential and better in business. Is a lot of people just self sabotage? There's a lot of mental blockages. And what's really cool is you're hearing people talk about that on our show here. It's kind of a discussion topic we like to bring out because it's very relatable and everyone experiences it. But it's really cool to hear that some of the biggest names that you think have it all figured out. For the longest time, they were just self sabotaging them. Think. Usually that comes down to them feeling like they're not worthy of success, of money, of whatever it is, you know, so you see a lot of ups and downs, big launches, but then big, you know, drops. Yeah. And then almost like you have to keep rebuilding. And a lot of these people.

It takes a long time to figure that out. But these were common stories we heard both on the live stream and also just in conversation.

Yeah.

So. And then, you know, this all relates to imposter syndrome, is not thinking you're good enough, your self image and worth. Yeah. So it's just really cool to like, if you feel like you're like that too, it's cool. Don't worry. The best of them got that too.

Yeah, no, it was really, really eye opening to me because I tend to struggle with the imposter syndrome. Like even just having the podcast and having some of our guests on and going, man, I don't even know how we landed this guest. Sometimes I sort of struggle with that imposter syndrome thing. But to learn that no matter what level you're at, everybody has like, at least some, you know, there's definitely some people that have egos and, you know, think they're the hottest shit in the world. I'M not gonna, you know, name names, but there's like, you know, it's a spectrum, right? There's. There's all sorts of. All sorts of levels of the imposter syndrome, but everybody kind of has it a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. I mean, it's just. I don't know, it's just really cool. It's a relatability thing. And I feel like we've talked a lot about that on this show and what we were told, I mean, here's something that we're just. We were blind to, is that many of the folks in that room have heard our show. Our listeners of our show.

Yes, that was. That blew me away when. When these people that we really, really look up to and highly respect and maybe have been following for 10 plus years are telling us, I love your show. Yours is the only podcast I listen to. We actually had. We were. We were talking to Jeff Walker. Product launch formula fame. Right. We were talking to him, telling him about a podcast. He's like, I've really been getting into POD lately. What's yours called? And as he was standing in front of us, he pulled out his phone and subscribed to our show. And we're like, yes. Like, that's sort of a life goal achieved right there.

You know, I mean, there's just so much influence coming from just him alone.

Yeah.

And let alone everyone else in that room. And I think it's just really cool, too. And I think at the end of the day, what's really nice to see is that these people are genuinely awesome people. And there was something being told as well, is like, when you get to this certain level.

Obviously everyone has egos, but they're not egos. Like, no one's showing off. No one's trying to say, like, I made this much money or my launch was better, or my email list is like this, or people are there to genuinely support. And especially the fact that, like, everyone flew out from their busy lives. We flew from San Diego, you know, Perry flew from Chicago. I mean, Russell flew from Boise.

Right?

Boise, yeah. Idaho. I mean, literally, I think someone flew from Australia.

There's somebody there that was Australian. I don't know if she flew from Australia or not, but.

Well, geez. I mean, it's just. It was like literally a whole flow of folks. But really what that shows. And then when discussing with people is the ego doesn't get in the way in just, like, doing good work and serving and being a cool person. And I think that those Are good qualities to take away if you're looking for, you know, high achievement in life and being really the best of you.

Well, this is something I was saying at dinner last night. We actually had dinner with a couple of cool people that we met at this event, and Greg and Rob. Rob Kosberg and what was Greg?

Greg. Oh, man. Documentary man. Keep talking. I'm gonna pull up his last name.

Well, anyway, last night we were sitting at dinner with them, and one of the things that was sort of a realization that I had is that the Greg Roulette. Greg Roulette, yes. And he's put out some amazing documentary stuff.

One about J. Abraham and all that. The J. Abraham story.

Yeah.

Yeah, check it out.

But one of the things that I. That was sort of a realization for me that I was talking about at dinner was like, it's really, really hard to reach the level of success that most of the people in that room reached by being an asshole.

True. Right.

Like, most of them are like, what, you walk around the room and you talk to people, and it's some of the friendliest, open, most giving, sharing. Like, they're willing to share their tactics with you and stuff like that. Like, those were the types of people in the room. It didn't really feel like a ton of egos. It didn't feel like a ton of arrogance. And I think that is why they succeed, is because they are just so freely giving and so freely sharing things with other people. And if you ask them a question, they're all an open book. Everybody's very. Felt very transparent there about what they struggled with and what was working well for them and things like that.

Yeah.

And I feel like those are the reasons they're at where they're at. And it's like the ones that sort of have the ego that think like, oh, I ran a. I ran a launch and it did a million dollars, and now I'm the hottest shit on earth. Like, those are the people that, after that launch, they seem to fade away and you never see from them again. Right. But the ones that have this longevity that I've been around for years and years and years, the same people we're talking about today that we were talking about 10 years ago that are still in the game. Those are the ones that are just, like, on another level, like, willing to help people.

Yeah. No, it shows. And. Yeah, it's just really cool. So I think it's like all of this is just a good example of what to mold and to model. Yeah. And, yeah, it could be Applied everywhere. So I mean to say that there weren't any take or, you know, like just a handful of takeaways or like, I don't even know. We haven't even debriefed our brains completely on this thing yet. And, you know, we just sent an email to our customers and I think I had like eight different takeaways there. I was like, oh my God, there's like 25,000 more.

You know, to go from. So, I mean, our take, you know, so it started in a mastermind at Rich's house, Rich Sheffern's place in Delray. Beautiful place. Super nice to, you know, have him welcome us all into his house. And it was basically a full day mastermind. And what was really cool is a lot of Agora's team was there.

Oh, yeah.

So Paradigm Press is the division of Agora, or subsidiary of Agora, that publishes Rich and them alone. They're $100 million company. That's not Agora as a whole, but just that one subsidiary. And what's really cool is it's only run by about 30 people. And that just shows how lean and mean they are. And what's a big takeaway overall is because a lot of them were all there and literally like just giving it out. Obviously there's probably some stuff we probably shouldn't be naming in detail. Yeah.

I'm not sure how many of the tactics were allowed to talk about. We're going to talk about some big takeaways, but, you know, with Agora, they actually broke down their business model and where all their money comes from and how, like how they're doing it and all that stuff. And it was, it was amazing. But I think that's the kind of stuff they're like, kind of keep this on the down low, so we can't get into that, but we will talk about some of the bigger, bigger, higher level takeaways we've had from the event.

Yeah. And really, I would say a pretty common theme with listening to every single one of their employees that we're chatting with and the leaders of their, their division as well, is keep it simple. It's all about systems. Everything is very system oriented. There's routines. That's why they can hire employees that are literally start from interns.

Yep.

And then they move them up. They actually have contests. I was talking to one of their media buyers. They run contests and pay a certain amount to like whoever wins. Yeah. And you know, and actually they'll compete against existing employees sometimes too. Yeah. And then, you know, like it's.

They definitely create like a sort of environment of competition.

Yeah.

A lot of the. A lot of the people on the Agora team, or even though they're all in the same company, they're all like sort of fighting for bragging rights on a lot of things.

Yeah.

At the core of what they do, they have great offers and great copy and they just stick to those. Copy is their backbone. Of course, that's a Gore in a nutshell, but they are so systemized with how they email and they cross sell. The number of offers they have and they can pull from. And this is what was a takeaway talking to their media buyer. I'm totally blanking on his name is, you know, think which what kind of company is going to make more money. One that just has like one offer or one that has like 20 offers.

Yeah.

And when I say 20 offers, that doesn't mean brand new offers. It could just be different angles of an offer or what they do are premiums. So if you're selling like a newsletter, for instance, there's like this thing that's kind of bonused in on top of it and that can be used to target different audience groups, you know, different avatars and different interests. So it's like a new lead in. Yeah. And imagine if the more of those you have, the more opportunities you have to sell, the more emails you can send that don't sound the same, but they can all lead to the same ish offer. That's. And they literally have over 200 offers that they rotate. Yeah. And so every single email has an offer of some sort that's relevant. And literally it's like endless amounts of content. They can write around those offers and then of course, present something and make some revenue. Yeah. So it's in. They just literally rinse and repeat that every single day.

Yeah. They call it the Hit Factory model.

That's right.

Right. Like the Hit Factory model is essentially you've got copywriters who can make your copy look really good. You've got media buyers who drive the traffic to the copy. And then you have gurus. Right. So it's sort of like this triad that they have media buyers, copywriters, gurus. Gurus go and create the content. They're the ones that are like writing all the stuff that goes into the newsletter, all of the content that you're essentially buying. They write the emails that go out, all that sort of thing. And then once the content is created, the copywriters find that angle, that hook, that thing that's going to make people want to buy into that newsletter. And then you have the media buyers who wants the sales copy is written. Media buyers go and buy the traffic into the copy that was written, which sells the guru's thing. And it's just this sort of closed loop triangle of media buyers buy traffic to the copy. Copy sells what the guru made. And yeah, it's rad.

I mean, it's a hit factory model. It's a hit factory and they are the first to admit that they don't do everything else well. They do that thing really well. And if you think about it, it's absolutely impressive because they're not doing a lot of other things. Like they don't have a big emphasis on branding or social media or.

They do media buying. But it doesn't seem like it's a huge. I mean it's a big piece, but like it's really like think about the email systems and the hit factory thing.

Well, their whole philosophy is if you have a really good offer with really good copy, traffic is easy.

Right.

Like we kind of know this too, but traffic is never the problem.

No, right.

If you're not getting sales, it's a conversions problem. Which is why they put so much money and so much of their effort on focusing on copywriters. Agora is known for having the best copywriters on the planet, basically. And they recruit amazing copywriters and they're all about the copy.

And the great thing is that most of these copywriters, obviously they have head copywriters or leads, but most of them are actually been started at the intern level and moved up because they're using systems and they have a freaking formula for everything they do and they study. I think something else that was cool is that they study from related companies. So like if they're writing a sales page in a space, they're going to study the copy of a relevant thing really deep for that one thing. But a media buyer is also going to study the company, but also just study the media buying types of copy. So because different copy for different uses, but tying it together. But if you start to identify like a competitor in your space, they look at, you know, like Motley fool, for instance, is a financial company that they can really. That does a very similar model. You got to look at these big companies and there's usually patterns you can spot.

Yeah.

And that's pretty much all they're identifying and doing. Yeah, over and over and over and.

Over and over for sure. So what were some of the. For you what, what do you think some of the like, bigger kind of like aha moment takeaways that you've had maybe from like that, that higher level perspective of like, I've always sort of looked at this from this angle, but because of this event, maybe I'm kind of seeing it from this angle now.

What would that be? I mean.

Honestly, just because it's been on a topic that we've talked about is that self image thing I think is huge. And it was interesting to hear. Like Alex Jeffries, for instance. He was one of our first coach that we've hired when we started back in 2009.

Somewhere in there.

2008, 2009, it's one of those two years. And he's continued to be a friend of ours since then and was at this event and he's buddies with Rich Sheffern. He's been in the game a long time and does extremely well. But he said a story in the livestream that he would go do a big launch, make like millions of bucks, and then he always had this like threshold of like $10,000 that he never wanted to get behind or under. And he would kind of like, yeah, the ride to the top. He would show up, you know, show the world what he's capable of. And then it almost just let it go back down because that was like his comfort zone.

Yeah.

And it was a self worth thing is what he was saying. It was like, you know, he wasn't, he didn't felt like he was worthy of the money.

Yeah.

So instead of, you know, being like, oh no, I'm actually now they made like a couple mil or whatever launch. I'm not sure what the numbers were, but I'm just hypothetically, like, why not make $100,000 your baseline in your bank account or your worth level. But you know, without really figuring out the self image part, he found himself going back to, you know, really low numbers and having to basically go and relaunch in this cyclical, you know, cyclical thing. And really until he figured out, no, I'm the fucking man and like, I am worthy of this. Obviously I have a track record. Something I've realized with us as well is you almost get too close to what you're doing and others usually see your value and how good you are at something. But we are so resistant to believing it or even seeing it or accepting feedback like, oh my God, you guys are the best at that, you know, whatever that thing might be. And folks said that about just the way that we run this Podcast, for one, but also just in person. Like, we were approached by many people that know us that happen to be some freaking awesome people, legit folks that we didn't know prior to. And they're like, they just looked at us so, like, you guys seem like cool dudes. And then like they would turn into like a two hour conversation and. Yeah. And then all of a sudden like, oh, there's a joint venture that came from that. And you. Whatever. It might be a partnership deal, but it came from like, oh, it's just the way that you guys are.

Yeah.

The way that you, you know, communicate and just act. And those are things that a lot of, like us, sometimes we just don't think about. Yeah.

I think we have an aura of those are two normal dudes over there.

Yeah, it's. Yeah. And. And I think it's an accepting thing, you know. Yeah, it's getting comfortable with that. And just actually, you know, from that, I feel like there's a. You can kind of train yourself to be like, no, yeah, I'm worth. I'm worthy of this thing, or I am that thing. I think when you lean into it, which is my bigger takeaway here at a high level, is like, oh, no, I am the man at this.

Yeah.

And really believe it.

Well, I know, I know it's sort of an overused term and it's kind of become a bad word a little bit, but I feel like, shoot. The authenticity thing is like is like really key. Like the ones that are really just like authentically being themselves, like, when you hear them on the podcast, when you see them in person, when you see them on YouTube videos, when you read their emails, it's the same. There's this consistency of like, they are just like, they're just them, their authentic self. Like, this is. This is who I am. This is what you get. No matter what medium you're sort of consuming my content from. This is what you get when you meet me in person that sort of like, authentic, this is who I am and this is who I always am. And this, and just being consistent with who you are seems to be a big, big key to a lot of people's success. You know, you. You talk to some of these big name, you know, quote unquote gurus that are there, and what you're finding out from them is that they're just normal, real dudes who like to chat about the same shit we chat about. They're into the same kind of stuff. They all have favorite sports teams that you can kind of razz them on. They all have had failures in their business that, you know, that they're not super proud of, but they're totally willing to talk about them and share the mistakes they made along the way. And all of this kind of thing, like that sort of authentic level is I think, the reason why they. A lot of these people got to where they are. And I think that's sort of what really made the imposter syndrome kind of thing almost immediately go away. Like, the second we walked into Rich's house in Florida, like, we walked into his house, we saw, you know, Mike, Phil, same over in one corner, we went up and gave him a big hug and was like, what's up, buddy? And then, like, we started talking to some other people and getting introduced to people we'd never met. And just like, right off the bat, everybody was friendly and just like, chatty with us. Like we'd known him forever. And like, that type of person seems to be the type of person that excels in this world that we're playing in.

That's right, man. And you gotta think how much you're, like, when you can get to that point of just being free and easy and comfortable and being cool, acting like, I mean, you gotta remember everyone's the same. Like you said, at the end of the day, like, underneath, there's always this tinge of, you know, there's. And even, you know, if you get past that. I don't know if everyone always totally gets past that, but just being aware of it's good when you're in it, like, just realize we're all playing the same game. Yeah. But, you know, others of us have identified that and are comfortable with that. So really, you shouldn't be like, sticker shocked or like, worried about approaching someone and just communicating.

Yeah, I mean, we were. We were sitting across the table from people that, you know, make $100 million a year. Two guys profit.

Yes.

Right. Like, we talk. I mean, some people. I'm not, I'm not. I wasn't talking about anybody specific. I'm just saying we were sitting across the table from people that were doing like, hundred million plus dollar businesses, and there was literally no difference talking to those people. And the types of discussions we had and the types of advice they were giving and the types of things they were doing to the discussions that we had with people that were making a hundred thousand a year.

Right.

Like, the. The discussions are the same. The fears are the same. The things that they screwed up have been the same. Like the conversations Are the same. There's lit. Like, we. We actually, you know, we were sitting across the table from somebody who's kind of newer in business, and sitting across it, and sitting next to that person at one point was somebody that was making, like, $100 million in their business. And, like, that conversation just felt like a bunch of buddies just sitting around chatting. We were talking about drinking whiskey and, you know, what our favorite foods were. And, you know, we were talking to one guy about, like, his golf hobby and, like, all the different places he's been golfing.

Ferrari, Maserati.

Yeah.

I mean, like, all these things that.

Stuff came up, but, you know, like, they were. The conversations. Didn't feel like we were sitting across the table from, like, a. A Richard Branson, and we were sort of going, ooh, this guy is, you know, up on a pedestal. It just felt like we were talking to normal dudes and that. I mean, I know we've sort of beat this horse to death in this. This conversation. But, like, that was really a key takeaway for me, was like, yeah. I think the reason people are gravitating to us and the reason that people want to have these conversations with us and the reason we get invited to these events is because the way we communicate with people, the way we treat people, the way we are when you hear us on recording and the way you meet us in person is exactly the same. And I think those are the character traits that have attracted people to us and had them invite us to these kinds of events. And then we get out there, and lo and behold, we fit right in with all of these people when it comes to the conversations, you know.

Yeah. No, it's interesting because.

Basically, we were told that the way that we approach things, the way that we treat our list, that we communicate and that we see people that, you know, that we sell things to or give content to, like yourself, I guess. It's very rare. And these are from. You know, it's like, we were told, like, the way that you're approaching things are extremely rare, that you actually care.

Because.

And I was telling some people, it's like, it's seriously all we know. Yeah. And. But that's, I think, the rare part. And there was a sign walking through here. Here, actually, that was. I think I pointed it out to you. I'm like, see, we got to remember that. And I forget what the saying was.

The wolf forgot it.

We'll walk by it again. Maybe I'll take a picture of it. But basically, it was like, just be human. Just Remember that anyone you're speaking to through this microphone, even though we can't see you listening, but all the way to the person that's behind the desk of a Starbucks, you know, barista or taking your order, they are human.

Yeah.

Well, one of the people treat them as such. And then when you're sending emails to them, don't, you know, smash or blast the list? Don't hit the list. All these terms like, I know James Schramko, good buddy of ours, will say that it's like. No, hold on. Watch your terminology.

Yeah.

Because that's really. That's literally sinking into your subconscious of how you treat people in general. It's not a quick hit. You're not just bashing, you know, like. No, no, no. You're communicating. You're giving value. You're actually a relationship.

You're talking to humans here.

Yes. Remember that. And it's going to go a long way.

Yeah. I mean, one of the people that we met at this event for the first time and, you know, we were familiar with his work, but we. We never really had any sort of connection to him. Prior was Mike Long.

Oh, yeah, right.

I remember him because he was involved with Bring the Fresh with Kelly Felix, which was a product that I bought, and he was involved with Stompernet a few years prior to that. And we were very familiar with some of the products that he'd been involved with, but we really had no sort of connection to him before this event. But we were. We were hanging out with him in his hotel room last night, and that was sort of one of the big topics that we were talking about, is that so many people forget that in marketing, those are humans. On the other side, like, everybody listening to this podcast is a human with real. I mean, I hope so. I'm assuming with AI is listening to.

But Google are transcribing everything big tech.

But, you know, everybody's like, they're human beings that, you know, they have fears and vulnerabilities and goals they're trying to achieve and, you know, worries and, like, the whole range of emotions. But I feel like so many marketers just see it as numbers. I've got a list this size. My open rate is this. My click rate is this. My conversion rate is this. My CPA, my CTA, my CPR, my CPMs, my PPCs, my FTCs, my.

Okay, I could keep going, but everybody.

Just sees it all as.

They're not terminators, they're human.

Everybody just sees it all as, like, numbers. Like, everybody just like, marketers see everybody as just this numbers game. And I think what really has a big relation to success is seeing this as people seeing it as souls that we get to communicate with. Right. Like, that is what I think really is a differentiator between what a lot of the really successful people are doing and the wannabe marketers that are out there hitting their list, smashing the. Smashing the list. Right.

You reminded me of a dude we met on the plane on the way to Florida, this guy named Russ. Who. Shout out Russ if you're listening, because now he knows of our podcast, the dude. Immediately when we sat down in the same row, he just. We were in the exit row, actually, and obviously by the window, Matt was in the middle and Russ is on the left. And mind you friggin, you know, necklace of, like, teeth and all these, like, interesting beads and stuff. And never asked him what that was all about, but he was like, oh, don't worry. He's like, if this thing's going down or whatever, I got the door, I want to. I know exactly how to save us all. He's like, I'm prepared. But we told him, like, we immediately got into this, like, big conversation, deep conversation about this kind of stuff. He, like, flowed. And we were going into it, but the way we described our podcast, what we do, he's like, dude, you're literally waking people up. You're changing lives. And it was something that we've been talking about a lot. And it plays right in all this stuff, too, is like, you know, it's the people that can't speak like, themselves and, like, how they communicate with, you know, their buddies.

Yeah.

And then, you know, so that's one example. And that was a really cool guy. Maybe we might even have him on the show because he's an interesting. Yeah.

Hall of fame arm wrestling champion.

Yes. Legit. And he knows a lot of pro skaters and interesting people burst in the skateboarding world.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

But there was something that you and I were talking about too, is like, there's sometimes a disconnect when people write copy and create content as well, like for selling purposes, they kind of lose their voice a little bit.

And just remember again, that's where your voice comes through as well. So don't start just, like, copying sales copy and thinking you have to use these specific words or things. Like some people were saying, like, dude, when you're selling your EGP letter, like, literally, your style should be how we're talking here. Yeah, it should just be a video. Be like, dude, come on. Really?

Yeah. 15 bucks. Really?

Do you not realize how easy that's like. That's like a really cheap, crappy food meal at McDonald's.

Yeah.

Or, you know, Starbucks.

Exactly.

So it's just like. Just buy it below.

Yeah.

Like, literally they're like. And these are some of the biggest, like the copyright. It's like. Yeah, that's your sales video.

Yeah.

So it's like, just think about it, how you can extend that into your own brand. Use your voice everywhere.

Yeah, yeah, No, I think that's a big thing. And really just that human element too. Just that. Remember that you're talking to other humans on the other end of these emails, on the other end of these text messages you're sending on the other end of your mini chat broadcast. Like, these are people, they are not a number. And like that is, you know, all this sort of fly by night marketers that pop up, they do a big launch and they disappear. They're playing this numbers game. They're forgetting that, like all these people that just bought their course, they're, you know, they wanted a piece of you. When they're buying the course, they're trying to buy a piece of you. It's. It's you that they're really going after. And, you know, the information is great. They're going after the information, but they're really buying based on your merits and what you put in that sales message. And as soon as you make that sale and then disappear on them. Because that's just a number. That's just a dollar amount that you made as opposed to, this is another person that I'm helping. You know, that's where you see the people kind of pop up, make some money and then disappear. And next thing you know, you're like, oh, you're working at Taco Bell now. Cool.

Hope not. All right, so I'm sure there's some. Yeah. All right. There's two topics and these are quick ones because I think what we were just covering was a overarching big one.

Yeah.

So let's give. I have two quicker ones. I can lead it off with one and then bounce it to you if you want to pick two. And then I think we should probably start to wrap it up after that.

Because we got to run for a plane.

Exactly. And there's a lot more. So I would say another therapy session. Maybe we'll throw an extra this month or something with more takeaways. All right, so first one, Mark Ford, he is one of the owners of Agora And Michael Masterson is his pen name. He's written numerous books. Check him out. I'm sure you have already.

Ready, aim. Fire is one of them.

Ready, fire. Aim. Ready, fire.

Aim.

Jesus.

Ready, fire. Aim. Which actually plays into. I'm actually not going to read his thing yet. I'm gonna go to my second point, but now that this makes more sense. This is something Rich said and he read it somewhere, but it was about perfectionism. And this.

Actually I wrote down the same thing.

Yeah. This one hit me because I guess him and I share this quality. I think a lot of people do is he said this was the quote. I'm pretty sure it's word for words from some book he didn't name. It doesn't matter. The quote's what really hit him and he said it hit him hard. It says perfectionism is convincing the world to believe in something about perfect me that isn't true.

Or that I don't believe myself.

Or that I don't believe myself.

The way I wrote it down was believing something, making the world believe something that I don't totally believe myself. Essentially.

So. Yeah, it's essentially. Yeah. And it's. So if you're looking at your self image or self worth and all that, you're almost trying to paint this picture, that's not you.

Yeah.

So that's perfectionism, but that's not what people want.

Yeah.

Or if it is and you're gonna have a struggle fest trying to do that all the time for the rest of your life.

Yeah.

For your brand, selling, personal whatever. So think about that. If you feel like a perfectionist, do you really want the world to believe in something that's not true about you?

Yeah.

And then that's just going to go in your conscious thinking that that's you. But yeah. So be you.

Yeah. So I'm going to share something that's a little, a little tactical. I want to give some people like a cool tactic that I heard. And to be honest, I don't actually remember who I heard it from. So that's cool.

What is it?

I apologize. One thing that somebody said that I thought was a cool, like tactical thing that you can, can do is if you're trying to grow your brand, you can go find YouTube videos. Right. And go, go find these YouTubers that will do interviews, but they have like a large subscriber base. A lot of people, you know, follow their YouTube channel, go to them and say, hey, would you be open to interviewing me on your YouTube channel? And if you interview me on your YouTube channel. I will drive a ton of traffic to that YouTube video that we do together. So if you interview me and put me on your channel, I can drive 10,000 views to that video. Does that sound like a good deal? Like a good exchange? I'll give a great value in the interview. Well, because it's a branding thing. Right. We're not, we're not really necessarily trying to sell. Maybe if they let you, you sell, but as a branding play. Look, interview me on your show, get me in front of your subscribers, and I will drive more traffic to your channel. And then what you go do is you interview them and then you just run YouTube ads to the channel. You just elevate that YouTube video. Yeah. With pre roll ads, which, you know, might cost 10 cents a view or less. Right.

If it's a wide target.

Yeah, if it's a wide target, you might cost you like 10 cents per view or less. And you just go and, you know, buy a couple hundred dollars in ads to that thing. It's a win win. They grow their channel. You get to build a brand off of their existing audience. And it's. It's a great branding play.

Right.

So that was one cool takeaway that I, that I think one of the Agora people were explaining that is something that they've experimented with. But I don't remember exactly who said it, but I thought that was a really cool, tactical thing that people can try.

That's a good one. Yeah. And so I said Mark Ford before. And this is what he was saying. So. And Mark Ford, he, you know, he is definitely a very in demand guy that you don't see much. So it was an honor to be able to spend, you know, an afternoon with him, which is rad, at Rich's place. And he was talking about how, you know, the articulation of things are so important. And he basically said, in a nutshell, it's not about the idea. Like your big idea about the thing, like, oh, this is groundbreaking. Basically, the ideas of everyone's had probably the idea that you've had in some variation. But it's the articulation of that idea is what makes it unique. And the example he gave is think of all the hit music that's out there right now. I mean, there's like a hit new song every day in some kind of genre.

Yeah.

Think about the number of notes and chords available to these musicians. They've all been done, they've all been played, but for some reason, they're just played in different ways. The Articulation is different. The wording is different, the lyrics are different, the music, chord structure, all that stuff. So this is the same way as presenting new ideas online and how you articulate your value to the world. Just keep in mind that, you know, you have your unique voice that could be like a new podcast or whatever, but, like, that's your own articulation of this big idea that you're given to the world. So that, that was really cool because people think they need to be. Have this new perfect thing, shiny and like. No, just put your own spin on it because you are unique and bring that to the world.

Yeah, I like that. And then I guess my final one, I'll. I'll share one more tactic from, from Kurt Molly. And, you know, I'm sure he's totally cool with me sharing it. If not, you know, whatever, invoice me. So that's good.

He will.

Yeah, I'm sure he will now. Yeah, so he was telling us. So we're talking about running some webinars in our own business and, you know, we're going to start doing webinars around promoting the Evergreen Profits letter. And typically when you create a webinar, you create like a webinar registration page. You go buy like ad traffic from Facebook or Google, you drive it to the registration page and, you know, you might be able to get a registration on a webinar for between $10 and $15 per registration. What he was saying was take your entire webinar, make it a Facebook video ad, and just run that Facebook video ad inside of Facebook with a video views.

What do you call it?

Trueview?

No, the video view whatever. Instead of going for clicks or traffic. Yeah, objective. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah, with the video view objective. And he said that you can get people to watch your entire webinar for like, I mean, obviously it varies from niche to niche, but he's. He said they're seeing things like, we're getting somebody to watch 100% of the webinar for like $3. Would you rather have somebody watch 100% of the webinar For $3, or would you rather have them go to your landing page, register the webinar might be a day or two later. So hopefully they show up to the webinar and then stick around to the webinar and just to get somebody to register for the webinar, not even to show up for the webinar, you might end up paying 10 to $15. Well, on Facebook, you can get $3. For $3, somebody will watch the entire webinar from start to finish. What do you think is more valuable?

Right.

And I loved that idea. I mean, we're gonna run both.

We are, right?

We're gonna run ad traffic to a webinar registration page. But then maybe it's like a retargeting play. Anybody who registered but didn't show up, just show them the webinar on Facebook, let them start seeing the webinar that they just missed, and let them just watch the whole damn thing on Facebook.

Yeah. And then you can also retarget based off how long they viewed the thing from Facebook from the long version, maybe retarget them to a landing page where they can go buy the thing.

Yeah. So you may see some of that kind of stuff coming out from us as we launch this webinar.

You will. I think what we're going to do is do another breakdown episode of Cool Takeaways or maybe we'll just sprinkle them into other episodes. Not sure. Definitely as an EGP letter subscriber or just Evergreen Profit subscriber, whatever we're calling this thing now, it's Evergreen Profits is we send out actually now this week was the second week of a customer email that basically throws down a bunch of insights. So more and more we're gonna actually put that in email form. It's almost like a mini weekly newsletter just for customers who are our customers. So if you're not, you should, you know, 15 bucks.

And I think this one that went out today, as we record this, recording this on Friday, the one that went out today, I actually think had a shit ton of takeaways from Saw from our event. Yeah. So if you, if you're an Evergreen Profits member, obviously you get the Evergreen Profits letter in the mail. If you're, if you're a print subscriber, if you're a digital subscriber, then you get it access in the members area. You get access to all of the videos and all of the additional training that our, you know, our podcast guests provide for us. But now we're actually doing a weekly Friday email newsletter with just like these are some great insights from throughout the week.

Yeah. And all the cool stuff that you really should be aware of.

Yeah. So we're trying to make that $15 a month just like a crazy, stupid, no brainer, like holy shit. Matt and Joe just kind of give us everything for $15.

That's the idea. Pick and choose what you want. Yeah.

So I'm not trying to make this A sales pitch. Just trying to let you know that a lot of these takeaways that if they're not on the podcast, we're definitely still sharing them across the print newsletter, the email newsletter, the members area. We are. We are talking about all this stuff. And then we also have our Hustlin Flowchart group, which is@flowchart group.com we want to make it easy. Urlchart Group. So if you go to flowchartgroup.com we actually do discussion threads on every single episode now. So if you enjoy this episode or if you have questions for us or when we have episodes with guests, you can go to that discussion thread on Facebook and continue the conversation with us right inside of that flowchartgroup.com There it is.

All right, I just looked at the clock and we got to get boog in.

Yeah, we got to run. So a little bit shorter than normal. But like Joe said, we're going to be doing one therapy session a month, so whatever we didn't get to in this one will probably pop up in the next one.

It'll happen. All right, thanks for watching, watching, whatever. See ya. Bye. Bye.

Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes.

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