Therapy Session - How To Effectively Leverage The Clubhouse App

I feel like Clubhouse is just this, like, great equalizing platform in the sense that the people that grow on the platform are the ones that are giving the most value. So you could get on Clubhouse and you can be like a famous, a list actor, but if you never get up on stages, you never share value. You're not going to get the followers. People are following the people that are providing them with value. You could be a small, you know, Facebook ads agency, but you're on the platform all the time sharing, like the best tactics that are working with Facebook ads right now. You're going to grow a massive following really quickly because you're the ones that are. You're the one creating value. So it's like, it sort of levels that playing field of anybody can be an influencer on this platform right now if you're just providing value to people.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float. Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf. Joe Fear. Hey, welcome back to the Hustle and Float chart podcast.

Hey there.

Hey.

How are you?

I'm doing good. I mean, I saw you like nine hours ago or something. It was a little longer than that.

Ago, but it was. Yeah, we did a little bit of.

A spa sesh last night.

It was much needed. It's been a while, huh? It's a little chilly in the air. It's a good time to brainstorm. And it always unlocks some cool stuff. You know, I feel like some of that stuff we're gonna share here. Yeah. And we're working through some interesting things and building on top of stuff that I guess wasn't as obvious to us just like, not that long ago, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. So this one, we're gonna. We're gonna cover a couple things. Right. So one of the big topics that has been hot on our mind for the last couple weeks, for me, ever since Christmas Eve, is Clubhouse, right? Like, Christmas Eve is. That was the first day I got into it.

Dennis Murphy on Facebook invited me into with his. One of his invites, and I got in and we kind of got hooked on it. I feel like with Clubhouse, you know, we've been on it since. What's today? We're recording this on the 13th. I got in on the 24th. So what is that, like, three ish weeks, approximately. So we've been using clubhouse for like, three ish weeks. I think like, the first week I was, like, really pumped on it. I spent a lot of time on there. I was sitting there doing work, but I had one headphone in trying to like get work done while also trying to turn it, tune into sessions and stuff like that. I was like, there's so much good shit. I don't want to miss this stuff. So I was in it like pretty hardcore. And then after about a week, I feel like the excitement over it sort of faded for me. But I'm still like super pumped on the platform.

No, it's. Yeah, I got in there, what day before you. And I guess if we're shouting out who connected us, Rich Goldstein, who, you know, has a podcast and as well, he invited me. And yeah, it was like I wasn't even like focused on anything. I think it was like out in my yard doing something and I threw it on my headphones just to listen and I was like, this is some of the coolest things ever. Like, it's this interesting group of people, like a lot of high level folks, and they're just talking about some of the most rawest, open things about their business and how they've made X millions, whatever. You know, it's like basically those were the rooms I was hanging out with and immediately I was like, I don't want to turn this off. I was getting like extreme fomo. And yeah, I don't get that with social media stuff really at all. But like you said, it's worn off. I pop in there daily still. But like, we were talking about it, we want to make a point, maybe spend like an hour in there each day. And ideally that hour would be giving value on there. So like starting a room and you know, or being on a panel, which we can talk about what all this means. Obviously people that aren't on Clubhouse. What the heck are you talking about?

Yeah, so this episode, we're going to kind of deep dive into Clubhouse. What we like about it, what we don't like about it, where we see it going, how we see using it as sort of marketers and podcasters. And I think we're just going to kind of COVID a lot of ground around Clubhouse and then, you know, towards the end of the episode, we're going to talk about some other cool, exciting things we've got going on in the business that I think listeners will, will like and possibly want to be a part of. So we'll get into some of that stuff at the end of the, you know, maybe in the second half of the business or in the, you know, final quarter of the episode or whatever. But before we do, make sure you grab the notes for this episode.

Mm. So notes. These ones, I would say, like you just said it's gonna be a blend of this new social media platform and a lot of the strategies that we've seen working well, from our perspective and from others to grow your, you know, all. All sorts of stuff that you're doing already. It's like lighting fire on all that stuff or throwing gasoline on it is Clubhouse. So notes around all that stuff, and then, like you said, kind of these breakthroughs we're having in our business, but I think it could apply to everyone, like, kind of the shift in thinking. So, yeah, get the notes. It's@flowchart group.com. it's what, two weeks of this episode going live. They'll be free. So just go there, plug in your email address, and you also get access to our Facebook community, where we're all hanging out, too. Flowchartgroup.com.

Yeah. So go get those.

Yeah.

Alrighty. Well, let's dig into some clubhouse stuff. Do you want to kind of quickly, because there's probably a percentage of people who either have heard of Clubhouse but haven't managed to get an invite and aren't sort of in the club yet, but there's also probably quite a few people listening that aren't even aware of Clubhouse yet. They don't even realize that it's this evolving platform that more and more marketers and celebrities and influencers and tech investors are all sort of jumping on board with right now. So I think we start with sort of just like the basic level, like, what the hell is clubhouse? So in your best words, how would you describe Clubhouse?

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like everyone's describing it in different ways, but I feel like it's similar. You know, it's. It's. In a way, it's like interactive podcasting. It gives you the ability to kind of sit around and listen to an interesting conversation, depending on whatever room or category you want to pop in on. And you might have the chance to actually interact. So you can raise your hand if you're in the crowd. And there's speakers involved, there's moderators, there's people that can get brought up to be a speaker, AKA get on stage. So it gives you the opportunity to interact with that topic, the speakers, but also give yourself some cred and put you on stage in front of a group of people. And, you know, these rooms can range from just a handful of people all the way up to thousands of people. And, you know, and we'll talk about how serendipitous this thing is. It's unlike other social platforms where you're kind of siloed in your bubble, more or less. Unless someone is specifically introduced to your bubble, you know, and tagged like to your Facebook group or something. This sec is, it's all based off of your connections, but also your interests and your profile and the rooms you're hanging out in. And really it's like curiosity and interest, I feel like, is like it's driven off of that and it creates this, this almost like real life collaboration thing platform that doesn't feel like other social media platforms. And at the same time, I feel like it's basic. It doesn't. It's not like complicated like Facebook seems to a lot of people, you know, crap going on behind scenes.

It's very intuitive. The first time you log in, you kind of instantly get it. You may not instantly understand why people are so hooked on it until you start engaging in some of the conversations, but you instantly get how to use the platform, right? I feel like the best description I've heard. I don't remember if it was Steve Olsher or somebody else, but for some reason I associate it with Steve. But this description of imagine you're at a conference and there's breakout rooms happening all over this conference, all sorts of different rooms. And you know, when you first log into the app, you're in the hallway of this conference. And these breakout rooms could be on anything, right? Like there's breakout rooms on podcasting, there's breakout rooms on real estate investing, breakout rooms on cryptocurrency, breakout rooms on psychedelics and biohacking and parenting and stand up comedy and storytelling, and just breakout rooms on every possible topic you can imagine. And when you first log in, you're in the hallway and you can kind of choose to pop into any of these breakout rooms. And in any one of these breakout rooms, there's essentially a stage. And on the stage is typically like a panel of people. So there's typically, you know, a few experts on whatever the subject matter is up there talking. And then there's an audience who's sitting there listening to these experts speak. You can raise your hand. If you raise your hand, you might get pulled up onto stage and you can either join the conversation by asking questions or you can actually contribute value. And then you can, you also have the ability, everybody has the ability to go create their own breakout room on whatever topic they want and invite their following into that room and start rooms yourself, right? So that's, I feel like a really sort of good visual of it. So imagine you're in the Hallway with all these breakout rooms on every topic you can imagine.

And.

And that's sort of like what I visualize when I log in is, like, which room do I want to pop in and listen on? And you can pop in and out of any of these rooms you want. In the beginning, I kind of felt weird sitting in on a room. And especially if I was on stage going, you know what? I'm not interested in this topic anymore. I'm gonna go to a different room. But I didn't want to leave the room because it almost felt rude. Right. But because it's all digital, nobody's seeing your face. Yeah. There's literally a button that says, leave quietly, and it has, like, a little peace sign on it.

And I think that's to encourage you to don't be, like, weirded out by the fact that you're ditching out in the middle of a conversation.

Exactly. And I heard some. It was actually some VC guys. It was Kamal Ravikant, actually. And, you know, and he was talking with Naval, his brother, and a whole bunch of other people, and they were actually talking about this exact concept of, like, this whole, like, poll. And, like, oh, you don't have to announce that you're leaving, even if you're. Maybe if you're a moderator, but, like, a speaker or something. It's like, you don't have to do. Like, there is a reason why. It's like, you could just leave quietly. Kind of like you're in a conversation, it just naturally morphs where you, like, walk away. Like, if you're at a party or something. It's not like you're rude that you just wander this way to another room or another conversation.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I've seen a lot of people that are like, there are speakers in one room, and then there's, like, they might be speakers in four rooms, and they're just, like, jumping around from room to room to room. They'll come in one room, they'll speak for a few minutes, and then be like, I gotta bounce to this other room. They'll go to another room, speak for a few minutes, and you'll see him, like, bouncing around. There's, like, a handful of people who I've seen kind of do that fairly consistently. They're just on different stages from one moment to the next. Yeah.

And the way that you describe clubhouse is how Rich Goldstein described it to me. The whole hallway and, like, you're hanging out in a big, like. Let's just assume, like, we're in a massive arena, you know, or like a big ass conference hall that has literally every type of interest you can think of. So it's this eclectic group of like everyone, but you're only really gonna see and hang out with the people that share your interest and your curiosity. So yeah, it's like a cool way to really deep dive into. And right now it feels like a lot of the leaders of these industries because it's like you said, it's like an invite only thing or it's a referral way that they're bringing people in. It's almost like an ethical MLM in a way how I think of it. Because your reputation, at least this is what I've heard is your reputation is kind of tied to whoever you invite. So if like someone's being a douchebag that you invite, you know, and let's say clubhouse starts slapping them, they're just breaking all the terms or whatever. Supposedly you're kind of affected as well. So you know, when you are in or if you're in clubhouse already, it's just be selective with who you're actually inviting in because it seems like there is a trickle down effect as well. Yeah, don't bring the asshole to a party. You know, it's like you're gonna be the one.

Although I haven't seen or heard of anybody actually getting kicked off because somebody they invited got kicked off. But supposedly like, you know, there is some sort of like reputation there. But yeah, I mean, I think that's a great descriptor of it. And like yesterday I probably spent a total of an hour in clubhouse throughout the day. I kind of pop in sporadically and maybe tune in for like 15 minutes at a time. But just yesterday alone I sat in on a session on YouTube growth. I sat in on a session about what's going on with bitcoin right now. And I sat in on a session about microdosing. Psychedelics. Right? Like three topics that couldn't be more different from each other, but all relevant to me personally, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And like as literally as we're talking here, I've been pinged. There's two of our actually, Christina McDaniel McDaniel and Josh Garrillo, two friends of ours in the marketing community. And I'm sure they listen. I know Chrissy's been on our podcast twice, but like I'm getting these notifications and I choose to get these notifications because of kind of like what I said before is like, these are usually the most connected people are popping in on the platform right now. So this gives everyone, like, if you get an invite, or if you find someone as an invite, or if you just sign up, which I recommend actually is just get on the waiting list and claim your name right now. Everyone should. And, you know, you might get an invite in sooner because people have the ability to bring you in occasionally. It's like, random, but I think typically it's like a contact in your phone associated with you and da, da, da. But the sooner you're in there, the faster you can get to connecting with people that you might not have chatted with in a long time. I started getting blown up in text messages today from a guy that I haven't talked to in three years at a local group here, entrepreneur group, and he just joined Clubhouse, and he's like, dude, this is insane. So it's kind of this cool rekindling of connections, but also like your ability to connect with crazy influencers. Not crazy, but awesome influencers in pretty much any space. That's the unique opportunity I see right now to collaborate.

Yeah, there's one caveat right now that's sort of an annoyance is that it's on iPhone only. Luckily, we both use iPhones, and.

It seems like a lot of the digital marketing community, the VC community, the sort of actor, author, rappers, all those kinds of people. It seems to be predominantly an iPhone crowd, so a lot of them have gotten in. But if you're on an Android, you still have to wait for an Android version to come out, which from my understanding, is something that's being worked on. But right now it's iPhone only, so that's something to kind of keep in mind. But, yeah, I mean, go download the app on your iPhone. You can sort of reserve a name. Like, when you download it, it'll say, sorry, it's in beta right now, but you can reserve your username. So go reserve your username. This is actually the first social media platform where I was actually able to get Matt Wolf as my username. Right. Like. Like, Matt Wolf is a fairly common name, so I almost can never get it on social media platforms. But I managed to get in on Clubhouse, where it was still available. So go and reserve your username. While it's still early, you're more likely to get the username you want. And then if somebody else who's already on Clubhouse sees that you just reserved a username, many times, they'll have that opportunity to, like, there's a little button that'll pop up for me every once in a while. That'll say so. And so just reserve their username. Would you like to let them in? It won't waste one of your invites.

Right.

And I can just click yes and it'll let that person in. So just go get the app and then pre register a username. There's a fairly good chance somebody you know is already in there and can just let you in.

Yep. Yeah. Because a lot of folks are, they're like, can you give me an invite? Can you give me. And we have. Occasionally we get invites. They kind of just show up randomly. I think depending on how many rooms you're creating and engagement on the platform. They just like, yeah, you gotta invite cool people. But yeah, the best thing is just sign up because most people aren't doing that. But like reserve your name before someone else takes it. And you can even consider maybe even taking a name, like a generic keyword type name at this point if you feel like that serves your business better. It's an option. Like, that's actually what my wife Heather did. She took something around the wedding planning or wedding planner name and her partner, who's also a wedding planner. So literally anytime someone searches wedding inside of the search, she's going to pop up almost at the very top of that list of people that people can connect with or search and find. So it's like that served her more than like, her name. Whereas like us, I think it's more like our name would make more sense because we're connecting with us first and then it's our brand.

Yeah, yeah. You look at like Steve Ulsher, Steve Ulster got at podcasts. There's Michael Sanchez, somebody that we have essentially became friends with because of clubhouse, who's at marketing. Right. So like early adopters still have this ability to get great usernames right now. Like, can you imagine going in, getting marketing or odcasts or, you know, Edding planner on fucking Twitter.

Right. Well, that's the point. That's the thinking. And that literally was discussion my wife Heather and I had. And I was like, I don't know, I kind of feel like you go for the wedding play, you know, because I know she's not gonna want to hang out on here all the time and do stuff. But it's like, that's a direct line to like revenue and any project that comes. And she did. And yeah, it's. So consider that when you're going onto that wait list and claiming your name.

Yeah, yeah. So all that to say, like, get on board now, even if you don't have plans to use it yet because you can reserve that username and maybe eventually the power of Clubhouse will click with you and you'll want to. You'll want to jump on board.

Yeah, and I kind of want to address, like, the hype because I know some people are seeing a lot of the Clubhouse, just Clubhouse being talked about in tons of channels. So we're starting to see people almost like, you know, drawing a line in the sand and they're like, okay, yes, Clubhouse. Oh, what the hell? Clubhouse is just all hype and blah, blah, blah. You know, I feel like it's. You gotta experience it when you get in there. But at the same time, it's. It's interesting. I've heard, you know, I was listening in on a chat with a bunch of VCs and also, you know, mentioned Naval Ravikant Kamal. Those guys are deep into the startup space. Both of those guys were saying this company A is like valued at crazy amounts. I think it's something like 100 million already. They're backed by a lot of funding. And at the same time, they all agreed that this thing is going to be like Twitter was back in the day when it started, that around this time next year, it should be like 50 times as big in terms of the amount of people on the platform. Clubhouse. So they were all super bullish on the platform. This was just the other week. So it's kind of. It's interesting because, you know, we live in our marketer bubble a lot of the times, so I've been kind of peeping on all these other, you know, because they're the ones that started this platform. It was the VCs that kicked it off the Silicon Valley folks. And they have a totally different way of looking at Clubhouse. But they have this huge belief that this thing's going to scale because a lot of other social media networks, A, have already scaled to as much as they can, but B, they just don't have this kind of natural collaboration or interactiveness inside their platform.

Yeah, I feel like with Clubhouse, there was this sort of perfect timing of it as well.

Right.

Like in a time of COVID and global pandemic and lockdowns and people aren't going to conferences and getting to meet up with, you know, their friends in person. Like every year, you and I, we go to Traffic and Conversion Summit. You know, Kurt Molly calls it the Internet marketing summer camp. Cause it's like the one time a year where like, everybody gets together and sees all their buddies again.

Right.

And we didn't get that this year, that never ended up happening this year because of COVID Right? And so Clubhouse, I feel like, has been the closest I've ever seen to giving that feel of going and hanging out with your buddies that you don't see very often. Like, obviously, you've got, like, zoom, right? Zoom. You can do these big happy hour zoom rooms where you have a bunch of. Bunch of friends, but they're fucking awkward, right? Like, we. We did a couple of them during quarantine, and it's like you jump on, and everybody gets, like, silent for a few minutes, and nobody knows who should speak. And we're all sitting there just staring at each other, drinking beers or whatever, going, okay, this is weird. Anybody have anything to say?

Right?

We're like, clubhouse. You get in these rooms, and the discussions just seem to flow naturally. And I think it has to do with the fact that we can't see each other, right? So, like, I might be in my garage in my pajamas, you know, in the morning, because I haven't changed yet, and nobody knows the difference, Right?

Awesome.

When we get on Zoom, you know, I'm consciously thinking about, like, okay, what do I look like right now? I probably need to throw on a hat. Oh, man, my shirt's dirty. I should probably change, right? Like, there's a little bit of concern about, like, what you look like. You get on Clubhouse, you pop into a room, and next thing you know, somebody's like, hey, Matt, what's going on? You know, what have you been up to? And then you just start engaging in a natural, normal conversation with people. And I think the timing with COVID people were craving that. And they get on Clubhouse, and you get into a room, and the next thing you know, it's like, all of your best friends are in this room with you chatting, but also fricking Tyrese Gibson and Grant Cardone in the room.

With you as well, you know, like, it's true, man. So you brought up a good point. A couple points. So I want to bring up the Tyrese thing second. So let's talk about that, because I think that was the second room that you and I ever started.

Yeah, well, the first room was me, you and Brad were chatting privately because there's a private sort of chat function, too, where you can have, like, three way, four way calls, and nobody's listening in on them. Me, you, and Brad started a private chat, and we went, let's go live and just see what happens.

Yeah.

No title of the room, Nothing. Just like, it just said, Matt, Joe, and Brad are going live, right? We went live and next thing we know there's like 40 people sitting in there listening to a random ass conversation about nothing.

Well, I mean, so you, you bring up a good point that this came up at the right time. Because I want to circle back on our experiences on these first two rooms. I feel like people are just yearning for connection. You can't really see everyone you want to see. TNC is the summer camp for us or maybe winter camp, I don't know because it's always in like March or something, spring camp and, and then. But. And it feels like because I've gotten pinged today, I get messages now from a whole bunch of folks. I know you do too. Of like, hey, we should start a room or hey, let's go over here. Or hey, I'm hanging out in this room, I'm chatting with these people. It feels exactly like if we were at TNC or podfest. Like that's literally how it is. They're like, oh, hey Joe, Matt, there's some cool shit over here. You really gotta join this conversation and like share something.

Yeah.

And like that's what you get here. And it's, that's where the FOMO can come into play. So be freaking aware of the fomo because you do get kind of like this, this hit because you're like, oh shit, they want me in that one. Okay, let me go jump. And it's like, it feels like there's.

A party happening with like a bunch of your friends pretty much. Right? And like, like I see rooms all the time where it's like, there's a room and I'll look at it and it'll be like Sean Vossler, Kurt, Molly. Like, what are some other names of just like our buddies that we. Yeah, like, yeah, Josh Bartlett, you know, like, we'll see these rooms and it's like 10 of our really good buddies that we have conversations with fairly frequently and we're like, oh, I really want to go to have like join the party. But like, man, I got work to do. Or man, it's dinner time or oh, I gotta put the kids to bed. So there is that element that's like, it does sort of mess with your head a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. And that's where I think my brain just goes to. I'm not going to just open it randomly, willy nilly, unless I know I can dedicate at least some listening focus time and or speaking time where I'm not going to feel like I'm running after because I've done this, like, on one of these long rooms that we did. It was, like, the fifth hour in, and I was, like, on baby duty. I was chasing my daughter around the yard. I literally was, like, hiking around my yard with AirPods trying to moderate a room. And I think we did all right, but half of it was like, I'm about to. Freaking kid's about to run down the hill. So I'm like, I don't want to moderate rooms that way. So I feel like, create a space for yourself. Like, an hour a day is something that we're pretty much doing individually or collectively, either starting a room or joining others.

Yeah.

But, like, it's insane. If you could just be consistent, like, you're gonna pick up a following and connection so fast.

Yeah. And the whole, like, FOMO element of it to the way I've sort of reframed it is. You know, Richard Branson, he's got that. That sort of famous quote where he says something. The effect of, like, opportunities are like buses. There's another one coming every 15 minutes. Right. I've gotten into so many clubhouse rooms where they're just dropping gold nuggets. The wisdom in that room is just like, holy crap. People would pay $10,000 for this stuff.

But gyms, they call them gyms in clubhouse. I heard gyms. Yeah, that's what I've heard is the term in clubhouse. Not nuggets. Gems.

Oh, gems. Like, oh, like, gem. I thought you were saying, like, Jim. Like, Jim Halpert from the office. Like, who the hell is Jim? Okay, got it. Jem. Got it, Jim.

Yeah. So, like, there's people dropping gems all the time, but if you kind of look at it from that sort of Richard Branson perspective, there's a gym coming every 10 minutes. Right. Like, if I miss this call with Grant Cardone, Billie Jean, Tai Lopez, and all of these gurus of the marketing world right now, well, those same guys are gonna be back on three days later, probably sharing the same gems again with just new people. Right. So.

The FOMO element of clubhouse has sort of faded for me because of that. I know. Like, I'm gonna get in and get gold nuggets all the time. I'm gonna call them gold nuggets.

Fuck them. I like gold nuggets more. I mean, gyms are cool. It just depends on how value the gems are you're getting.

I just can't stop hearing Jim. Like, Jim Jeffries. I'm just gonna throw out a new Jim name every time we say it.

Yeah, do it. I'LL test it. How many gyms do you know, Jim? Hacking. He's a listener. There you go.

Yeah, but now you're wasting gyms, Joe. You gotta wait. You gotta save them.

Damn it. That Jim in my pocket.

Sorry, Jim. Back to my pocket you go.

Yeah.

So let's talk about starting a room, and let's talk about. So you talked about the experience of just us, and here's what's cool with Clubhouse. Like, you said, you could just start a private room and just have your friends chat on there, or you can literally just have phone calls. Like, if you want to have a group call with people and you say, screw Zoom, I don't need to stare at you. Let's go hop on Clubhouse and you can start a private room. Totally fine. We've done that with Josh Bartlett recently. A few times.

Yeah. Me, you, and Josh kind of try to talk, like, once a week. Ish. And now we've pretty much predominantly moved it all over to clubhouse. We just start a private room in clubhouse and chat.

Yeah.

And sometimes the conversations go real well, and we'll be like, hey, let's open this up live. And people can listen in on our conversations. But, you know, we've almost moved that. Moved from Zoom for sort of casual conversation over to Clubhouse.

I feel like it's probably good for all of us, too, because we can move around. I feel like this thing of staring at screens all day long. I've told you, like, if I'm just on back to back, Zoom calls all the time, it's just like, I feel like there's something happening in our brains because you're focused on the person on the screen, and at least I feel it. It's almost like a podcast day for me. It's just like my brain is, like, kind of swollen feeling. It just doesn't feel like. Like my eyes are tired. Everything's like, so. Yeah, I like the audio aspect, man. It just, like, it kind of frees your brain a little bit more to.

Yeah. And you can walk around and. And drop gold nuggets.

While pantsless.

Been there, done that.

While dropping a deuce. Have you been there?

Quite possibly not speaking, but.

Oh, that'd be awesome. If you're just on the toilet and I'm like, joe, what are your thoughts? And you're like, one second, hold on.

I have definitely used the restroom multiple times when I've been on stage. And I like, quadruple check that I'm muted. I freak out because if I have my phone in my pocket, I have this crazy fear that, like, my. Something, my leg or skin, somehow my fingers, not knowing, are gonna just, like, hit that unmute button and I'm just like, doing whatever in the bathroom.

Yeah, yeah.

It's gonna happen one of these days to someone on stage, and it's just gonna be hilarious. It's like, Jim, I'm really surprised.

I am really surprised. We haven't audibly heard somebody dropping a clubhouse yet.

I've heard someone get yelled at by their wife, though.

Oh, I've heard that. Yeah, I've heard that.

I won't name who it is because he's a big name marketer, but Joe Fear, no.

Did definitely get some side eye. And I know that's happening a lot. I mean, even Ulster talked to Steve. Ulster said that he might, you know, things are a little rough and it could have been a joke, Adam. But I understand. I understand the feeling there because. Because it is a little weird if you always have your headphones on, if you're walking around the house trying to do everything in normal life and also trying to. I don't recommend that. And that's where that FOMO phase can either wreck this for you, possibly wreck your relationships. Just don't sacrifice that shit, you know?

Yeah. That was the first week on Clubhouse for me. I literally had one ear pod in my ear, and I was just walking around my house with, like, a conversation just constantly, perpetually going in one ear.

And like, what the hell is that even doing for you? Let's be honest, nothing.

Because I wasn't focused on it either. It was just kind of like, well, okay, so in the beginning, and I think where we should shift this conversation is to kind of like, how we see ourselves using it. Some of the best practices we've learned, just in the short time we've been on there, some of the things that we've seen work really well. And in the beginning, I think we sort of had this philosophy of, like, be in the rooms, even if we're not paying attention because it's exposure. Right? So, like, if we sit in our room, our little face, our little profile is seen in that room. And the more times people see our face, our profile picture in those rooms, the more follows we get. Right. So in the beginning, I was literally sitting in rooms just to collect followers. Is that the best approach? Probably not. But when we were trying to figure it out, we're like, how do we growth hack this? How do we game the system a little bit? And one of the things that was working very early on was just Being in rooms, even if we weren't participating.

I think that's a big point, though. And it's probably not the best strategy to just sit there and multitask and piss off your family or, like, not allow you to do focused work on whatever you're trying to get done. Don't. So, yeah, for that. Right. Don't do it. But to be in the room, I think is probably. It's like, this goes for anything in life. And I heard so many people saying this about Clubhouse is like, just you showing up anywhere, but especially just like, popping into a clubhouse room, call it one hour a day, just saying that, and just like, I'm gonna show up somewhere where I can get or give value. And that's probably gonna be you getting pulled up on a stage in one of these rooms around a topic that you might have some really good expertise in. And now, because you are up on stage, people can click your face and then go to your profile. And, you know, you can basically deck out that profile to make it very sexy on, like, what you offer to the world. You can tell yourself or you can explain yourself in so many ways there. That's how people really follow you, attach to you, and then they slide down to the DMs, is what they say. Let's take this to the DMs, because there's no messaging in Clubhouse, So either link up your Twitter or Instagram account or both, and then that's where you start the chats. But I've noticed, Matt, I mean, like, it's just being in the room, you're gonna pick up more followers. But if you're on stage, like, if you can give value, you're gonna swoop up all sorts of followers because everyone's always shouting out, like, hey, follow the. Follow the people on stage. These people are sacrificing their time, yada, yada, yada. Which is totally true. I think once you do that a handful of times, because I've noticed this, I haven't started a room in a while. It's been five days or so. I think it was Josh Felber. I've been picking up followers, like, maybe 30, 40 at a day, just not by even using Clubhouse at this point.

Yeah, I think you hit, like, a sort of snowball point where people will follow you because you start getting recommended. Right. So, like, we hang out in a lot of rooms with podcasters, right? So I think when other podcasters join the platform, we. We are starting to get recommended like other podcasters who joined the platform. Follow these guys.

Right.

So there is a recommendation engine and I think the more traction you pick up among a certain niche, the more you get recommended within that niche.

Yeah. I've heard also some things about their profile, like it's searchable. So decking out your profile with all the terms and keywords that are relevant to what you can do or what you offer, that's a way as well.

Yeah. Speaking of the profile. So I feel like I've said this so many times on different Clubhouse rooms is like the. The profile on Clubhouse is one of the only profiles I look at at like any social media platform. Right. Like on Instagram, I almost never click into other people's profiles. Facebook never click into people's profiles. Twitter never. Like most of these platforms, I'm just scrolling my feed, but I almost never click into profiles. Clubhouse. When I'm sitting in a clubhouse room, I click into every single profile of the person on stage because I want to know who I'm in the room with. And then the room is broken up into sections, right. There's the people on stage, there's the friends of the people on stage, and then there's everybody else.

Right.

And so I always go into these rooms and especially when I'm on stage and I'm clicking, like, who am I on stage with? Like, what are the accolades of these people? What are their websites? What are their businesses? I want to know who I'm in the room with. So it is super easy to click on the profiles without leaving the room you're in. So it just kind of slides up from the bottom. You read their profile real quick and then it slides back down. So I'm clicking through all the profiles, finding out who I'm in the room with. And a lot of times I'll read the profile and go, they seem interesting, follow. They seem interesting, follow. And then I start doing that with the friends of the people on stage. Right. I don't really go into the audience below friends on the people on stage because who has time to click through, you know, potentially hundreds of profiles. But like I always click through the people on stage and the friends of the people on stage.

Yeah.

And so all that to say, deck out your frickin bio because people are looking at them.

Yep. Yeah. That's the very first thing you should do when you get on that platform. Deck out your bio. It amazes me when I scroll through the followers that I do have and I see it's very obvious who hasn't touched their bio. It's just blank by their name.

Yeah.

Cool. That's attractive.

Yeah. And how many of those people do you see have like three followers? You know, most of them have like the person that invite them. Is there like one follower?

Yeah. And here's a strategy too, that you can think about. And this is. It was highlighted by Nick Peterson in an email. And we've had Nick on the show. He's also in Clubhouse, and we've had. Had him and we've joined him in certain rooms. He's. He's been all over Clubhouse and that. He's a. He's a smart cookie, that Nick Peterson. So when he sees something, he's looking at it in a unique way. So one of the things he noticed is, you know, when you invite someone, like we were talking earlier, you're attached to the person you invite. Well, in your profile, if you scroll to the very bottom of anyone's profile, you see who invited that person onto the platform. Now what's really cool is that that's not going away. That's literally like your face if you end up recommending. And this is what Nick did, and this is the example. He said he recommended Frank Kern to the platform. So he noticed just by him recommending Frank Kern, he's getting this kind of overflow of other followers to follow him now because he just, you know, he just introduced Frank Kern, you know, a massive influence on the profile. That also gives Nick tremendous amount of credibility. So just because of that association that's linked on Frank's profile, see Nick Peterson, they're like, shit, Nick must be the dude to go to, you know, and that's what Nick, he sent to this email the other day. And I haven't thought about it in that way, but it's true. And that's like, when we get invites, we're very selective. It's like, you know, we would love to just dish him out to every single person. But there's also kind of like, you gotta kind of think through this thing a little bit. There's. You can be strategic with this and everyone can play that game in your own right. And maybe an industry, you know, there's a leader that you want to bring on the platform and you're like, okay, interesting. If I bring them on the platform, they're going to give a lot of value in this platform. But also I can associate myself with this person. Maybe it's one of your clients. You know, if you're like serving clients, what better way can it be to gift your client with a clubhouse invite? Makes you look Like a super early adopter, which you would be. And then now you're a badass because.

It'S just like a really cool value add and you're attached to them now.

Yeah, yeah. So just to sort of like wrap a bow around what we've seen as far as growth, like kind of to recap and you can sort of remind me of anything I'm missing here. But make sure you deck out your profile because people look at the bio when you're in a room with them. People are clicking through the names of the people in there and looking at the bios. So make sure you have an interesting bio that makes your ideal audience want to follow you. Right. Literally spend time in rooms because just being seen in those rooms will get you followers.

Try to use your invites to bring on high profile people because that will actually get you.

Some sort of credibility through association that people go, oh, this guy invited Frank Kern. Well, he must be someone to know then.

So some other things. Make sure you're putting your username out there to the world. We're mentioning it on Instagram stories. We've mentioned it in our print newsletter. We've mentioned it in our email list on Facebook.

We haven't mentioned it here, though.

We haven't mentioned it here. Attwolf. I did actually mention mine, but.

You did? Well, I'm oefier, but that's no surprise. Yeah.

So we shouldn't be too hard to find on the platform if you just type our damn names.

One other thing I would recommend, and this is something that you do really well, I'm starting to do better, but I know you're like, even more adamant, is always hitting people up on DMs inside of Instagram.

I was gonna get to that as far as what to do as the next step once you're on Clubhouse.

Once we've built an audience on Clubhouse, how are we leveraging that audience? I feel like that's kind of like the sort of next discussion. But one last thing I was gonna say around the growth aspect of it is I feel like Clubhouse is just this, like, great equalizing platform in the sense that the people that grow on the platform are the ones that are giving the most value. So you could get on Clubhouse and you can be like a famous A list actor, but if you never get up on stages, you never share value, you're not gonna get the followers. People are following the people that are providing them with value. You could be a small, you know, Facebook ads agency, but you, you're on the Platform all the time sharing. Like the best tactics that are working with Facebook ads right now, you're going to grow a massive following really, really quickly because you're the one creating value. So it sort of levels that playing field of anybody can be an influencer on this platform right now if you're just providing value to people. So what does that translate into? Get into rooms, raise your hand, speak on stages, create your own rooms, and just provide a shit ton of value when you're in these rooms. Because that is the real way you grow is through the. Through providing value.

Yep. There's no better way I can see right now as an opportunity. Like if you were a. If you are a speaker, which I know a lot of speakers have been crushed this year, author, expert, consultant, coach, like all those things lends perfectly to this platform. If you give value and you have all these call to actions, accolades, all that stuff you do in your profile, I mean, there's. We were having this discussion with Roland Frazier yesterday and we were talking about this. And, you know, Roland takes on personal consulting clients. You're gonna pay for it. And it's definitely worth every penny. And he's able to get a lot of attention just on Clubhouse. Obviously, you know, he has his own audience, but you don't even need to have an audience. That's the beautiful thing. You can just go in cold without any offer at all. Like, you know, obviously have a presence and have your cred and, you know, be legit, but give value. And then you can start getting clients just straight up right there through the platform because you're showing up.

Yeah, yeah. Another thing that I think is important to mention that we haven't mentioned yet is a couple little sort of nuances of Clubhouse that we haven't quite discussed that I think are important to bring up. So one of them being that the way to get a room to grow is to invite people that have followings on the stage with you. Right.

So if.

If you and I, as of this recording, I think we're both, you know, a little over a thousand followers. I think I just broke 1200. I think you're somewhere around the same range. Right. So if you and I were to start a room, those 1200 people that follow us, they'd all get pinged saying, Matt and Joe are starting a room.

Right.

But if we invite.

You know.

Is.

It Gary Henderson, Right. If we invite Gary Henderson into our room to join our stage, he's got something like 20,000 followers. And because we invited him into our room and he Joined our stage. It's Gonna ping his 20,000 followers and say that Gary Henderson is now on stage in a room. Right. So that's how you get these rooms to blow up really, really quickly. And then you start to kind of siphon off some of their followers. Right. Like, you get to keep some of their followers because they brought people into the room, you provided value to those people, and then you get to sort of capture those people into the room. Right. So I think that's sort of an element that we didn't talk about yet with the growth, is you want to try to pull the more influential people in your network onto stages with you, because that's how you kind of capture some of their network.

That's one thing like podcast guesting in a way. Like this is kind of a variety of. That is if you could share and pull audiences, you could start a room together or hop on someone else's stage. You know, if they have a lot of followers. Yeah. They're getting. Their people are pinged, and you can basically leverage that following, give value. People attach to you just like you would podcast guesting, and then you continue on now with new followers and that you've got from someone else. So it's a perfect way to look at it.

Yeah. And then another sort of nuanced element that we didn't talk about, this is less to do with growth and more to do with that sort of FOMO element, is that none of these things are being recorded. And I don't think we've said that yet on this episode, is you can get into these rooms, listen to these panels, join these discussions, and it's actually against their terms of service to record them unless everybody on the stage gives consent to re recording this session, which is very hard to do because you got random people popping in all the time. Right. So none of these sessions are being recorded. And that's where that FOMO element really comes from is, man, all of these great, great thinkers are all in a room together and I might miss it. And they're not recording this thing. So this might be the only chance to hear this thing. Right. So that's a big element that keeps people locked in on Clubhouse that I think we kind of skipped over a little bit.

Yeah, that's. That's definitely a reason why the FOMO exists.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's. I don't want to crack open too much more on this. I know we're. I don't know if we want to. Do we have time to touch on our the other stuff that we promised we would touch in this episode.

We got as much time as we want.

Let's do it then. All right. So, yeah. Reason I asked because I was like, I know we have a clubhouse we want to do, but let's do the episode here.

Yeah. Let's make sure we give the value here first.

Yeah. Because there's just so much we can. Let's continue going because I think this is so fascinating, man. I want to circle back and talk about actually creating a room like we did with Brad, and how we attracted Tyrese Gibson as a listener for a good hour. At least. He was a listener in. I was freaking watching this the whole time. I was like, he's been chilling for an hour just listening to us and others. And then we pulled him up on stage, and then he talked. He gave value and personal stories for about 45 minutes. I was like, this is crazy. And so Tyrese. I mean, super famous actor and musician as well, and. And he found us because we had a room called how to Connect with Influential people.

Yep.

And that's. That's what the title of the room was. There were no crazy emojis. We didn't do all that crap. We didn't put flames and money bags on everything. Actually, flames and money bags don't go well. Like, thumbs up and money bags, something like that. But he. Yeah, we started that with what? Brat Costanzo. That was one of those rooms that just the three of us started. And then our followers, our friends got pinged. We brought some of them up as moderators. They happen to. Some of them have really big followers. So our following. So then they got pinged. You know, their people got pinged when we made them a mod on our stage, a moderator. And literally, like, we started. We just kept looking an eye, keeping an eye on that, the number of people in the room. And it was like 100 people for a bit. 150 would, like, slowly climb up. We're like, yeah, we figured this topic would be a pretty good one to riff on. And we have a lot of stories and tactics, and it's like, then we're pulling people up from the crowd. Then all of a sudden. Yeah, I think it was Sean Vossler. We were talking about how, like, actors and, like, how it'd be interesting to get their perspective or something like that. And, like, how this clubhouse is so crazy, it attracts anyone. Scroll down. You see Tyrese is chilling in the crowd, and we bring him up, and he basically is like, I found you, and I've Been listening because it just sounds super fascinating. I love this room. And then he proceeded to give us his whole insight into, from his perspective, connecting with influential people, Jeff Bezos specifically. I was like, what the heck?

Yep, yep. And that is like one of multiple sort of serendipitous moments where I've overlapped with like celebrities essentially on Clubhouse, right. I was in another room where Daymond John popped into one where I was a panelist on. I was in another. You and I started a room on overcoming imposter syndrome where Frank Shamrock popped in. He never came up on stage, but he was hanging out listening in the room while me, you and Brad were chatting about overcoming imposter syndrome. Naval Ravikant is hanging out on there. And we've gotten to spend time sitting in rooms listening to that brain work, which is freaking awesome.

You can't, you can't. He's, he doesn't go on podcasts. And actually in the room that, that when he was in there, he was like, this is my new platform, Clubhouse, you know, because he's on Twitter, but you're not going to hear a long form expression of his thoughts. So it's like, it's kind of cool to get the, you know, insights of a billionaire that's seeing big things and interesting, you know, it's just a. Yeah, you're able to connect with these people randomly. And he was popping in some of the Internet marketing rooms and seeing what's going on there. So it's like you never know who's going to cross paths.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, let's, let's shift the topic a little bit to just kind of some of the ways we see ourselves using Clubhouse. And then we can kind of wrap up the Clubhouse conversation after, after that. Because I think, you know, we spent a lot of time sort of explaining what it is, explaining how we've managed to grow on it, explain explaining some of the growth tactics, the serendipitous moments, how you can connect with really influential people. So let's kind of shift into like, here's what we see it doing for our business and where we see people really leveraging it and it kind of starts coming back to that Instagram thing that you were starting to bring up a minute ago. One of the things that we've noticed is like you said earlier in the episode, you can connect your Twitter and your Instagram account. Those are literally the only links in your bio that are clickable links. Use your Twitter and your Instagram account. You can't have clickable Links back to your website or anything. So that's where you send people. And because there's no sort of text chat inside of Clubhouse, everybody either goes to Twitter or Instagram. It seems to be Instagram's more of the back channel that people use than Twitter. And just since we've been on Clubhouse, I went from about, I think, 600 followers on Instagram to approaching a thousand followers. So I've almost doubled my account. It's grown by like 400 ish subscribers just because I've been on Clubhouse. People hear the value we give on some of these panels. They click our bio, they go over to Instagram, they follow us there as well. So I've seen this massive spike in growth in Instagram because I've been on Clubhouse, but it's also been the best way to continue the conversations off of Clubhouse. So I've been doing a lot of stuff where I've been on a panel, I've been talking to somebody, We've had a really good conversation about podcasting or something like that. And I'll say, dude, shoot me a DM on Instagram. Let's keep this conversation going. They hit me in the DMs and Instagram, and now I can link them to offers, I can link them to podcasts, I can schedule calls with them, we can invite them to be on our podcast. You know, that opens up all sorts of more discussions and opportunities and things like that in the back channel. So I've been doing a lot of providing value on Instagram, pulling on Clubhouse, pulling them over to Instagram, continuing the conversation, and then in that continuation of the conversation, growing our podcast, growing our membership, growing these other things. Because the last, you know, let's say we did an episode on or a Clubhouse session on overcoming imposter syndrome, right? And people really liked it and they followed us on Instagram. Well, I can now go to the DMs of Instagram and say, hey, you liked that conversation. We've done two podcast episodes on the topic. Here's Link one and link two. Go check them out. You'll really enjoy them. People go over to the podcast, they enjoy it, they sign up for our membership. Next thing we know, we just landed a fan and a customer.

Yeah. Another little tactic I was doing last time is mentioning some free resources or just any kind of resources I can share with someone. So there was a discussion that you, me, Josh Felber, and some others were heading up around podcasting. And, you know, we heard so many questions around, how do you get connected to so many people. Like a list people for your podcast, how do you get on shows and how do you make money with your shows and grow your show? So it's like those kind of four things. And we had resources for all that stuff. So I would talk about the Dream 100 process that we use to get connected to people and get referrals for new guests. Talked about ways to make money, you know, a whole bunch. And we have documents and videos already recorded on this. So all I said was like, hey, hit me up on Instagram and just remind me and I'll send it to you. And I've done that. I had like five people, six people in one of these rooms ask for those things. And that gives me and us the opportunity to provide that link. But of course, they're probably gonna go join our podcast or subscribe. They're gonna get retargeted, ideally, if they go to one of our sites and join our email list and beyond. You know, it's cool, like how you can kind of just. I like the idea of tossing something specific out there that almost like gets them to come to us. That was what I was toying around and it worked out. In that last room, it's just, hey, got a freebie for you. I'm happy to hook you up with it, but hit me up first, you know, and then. And we'll go from there. You're probably gonna create some super fans, like from day one if you do something like that.

Yeah. Another. Another really cool thing I've seen on Insta on Clubhouse, and I know you've seen these rooms as well, is like these Shark Tank style rooms where they're on stage. You have like seven panelists who are all millionaires and billionaires. And in one of these scenarios, Kevin Harrington and Daymond John were two of the people up on stage. You had like Kevin Harrington, Daymond John, Grant Cardone, Tai Lopez.

You know, and then like a handful of other, you know, Billie Jean, like, you know, you get these rooms, these like mega rooms that have like seven, ten multimillionaires and even billionaires up on the stage. And then what they're doing is they're saying, come into this room. Pitch me on your software product, and I might invest on the spot. Right? And so you have these rooms that are kind of constantly going where people are getting pulled up on stage. They're giving like a little, you know, five to ten minute Shark Tank style pitch to the room. And then these investors are saying, you know what, I'll follow up with you in DMs and let's continue the conversation or, or they'll give them feedback on their pitch, or they'll give them feedback on their product or whatever. But either side of that is really cool. You can use Clubhouse as an opportunity to try to land investors in your company, or if you're on that flip side of the coin, you're somebody that's looking to invest in companies. You can go create or be a part of a panel that says, come pitch me what you got and maybe I'll invest. So I think that's a really cool creative use that I've seen on Clubhouse.

Frequently lately I've seen. I love those rooms because you can learn a lot. You can see how a pitch, a good pitch sounds and how a horrible pitch sounds. I heard a horrible pitch. It was a guy that literally pitched the. I'll just use the term sharks. Even though it wasn't those guys, it was like a different type of pitching room. And he was like, okay, I'm pitching you guys or I'm asking you for.

$30 million. That's what it was, 30 million. And he was talking about like how he didn't really have any revenue and all this stuff. And I was just like, damn, dude, you got some balls. And, you know, basically they gave him feedback. They all, they didn't laugh at him, but they were just like, whoa, bro, all right, you got this a little twisted. Let's, let's go through why and how you even got to that number. So I think that's a cool one. Another use when I kick over to an idea is like small rooms, you know, I've experienced this, but also other people. If you join a small room, that's probably the best way to really get connected and tight with someone fast. You're probably not going to get a big following, but if you know someone that you've been looking to connect with is just like in a room that's under 20 people, maybe even less. Most of those rooms aren't like people talking at you. They're going to bring you up and it's going to be just like a chat. Like we're standing in a circle at a conference. Shit. What other way are you gonna like? There's no other way you could just break into a friggin a chat with 10 people. I mean, I saw Nick Peterson doing this the other day with a handful of his partners and clients. There were like five people in the room.

Dude, they're the best conversations too. They're so much Better than the big room conversations.

Exactly. And like if you really want to show off your value and like really make like just create a relationship. There's no better way of doing this at scale right now than that.

Market research, it's just like all this stuff, man. Market research is another one actually. It's separate. Like if you're looking to break into a different niche, going in a new industry, create a new product, start freaking hanging out in some of these rooms that are under that category. Take notes, figure out who the players are that are on stage. Hey, you could figure out who your freaking affiliate partners could be. Or maybe you want to do a solo ad. Go start approaching these people because they probably have clout in the industry and customers on their list that you can friggin partner up with or something. Like it's. Or at least you figure out what's working and what's not. Like there's just so many cool things like that.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, some of the ways that I think we're planning on using it as well is we're going to use it to support the podcast. In fact, I haven't even said this yet on this episode, but since we've been on Clubhouse, we've seen a huge spike in growth of our podcast. Right. Like we've noticed on average between 300 and 400 more downloads per day since we've been on Clubhouse.

Right. And it's not even us being consistent on Clubhouse yet. Nope.

That's just people finding it and looking at the bio.

Right. That's the trippy part. It's been kind of autopilot because we front loaded it a little bit. But like with consistency. See, I'm gonna be, I'm excited to see what can happen with the download numbers.

Yeah, they're growing and so far it looks really, really promising. With the short amount of time we've been on there now, I don't think we're getting like 400 new subscribers. I think people are finding our podcast. And you know, we've got almost 400 episodes. So 400 downloads could be attributed to two people downloading almost all of our episodes. You know.

So I think there's that kind of thing going on where people discover us and then just go and download the whole frickin lot of podcasts.

They've told us that. Some people have said that they're like, we just. I have just binged on the last week over the holidays. I've just binged, you know, like weeks and weeks of your episode. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Well, speaking into that, like, one of the coolest things that happens on Clubhouse is to be speaking on a room. Somebody gets pulled up to stage and then. And they say, like, oh, man, I've been listening to your podcast forever. It's an honor to get to talk to you. Right. Like, when people pop up and say stuff like that, you know, it's an instant spike in, like, podcast downloads. Cause somebody just came up, edified us and said, your podcast is like my favorite. You know, a percentage of people in the room are looking at our profile and going, oh, I gotta check out this podcast now.

Yeah, man. I mean, that's how it works. It's. Isn't that podcast growth in general? Like, it's. Everyone's. A lot of podcasters look for the silver bullet, the magic bullet that's gonna take their downloads. And it's word of mouth at the end of the day. So it's like, okay, how can you really generate word of mouth at scale? Well, shoot. Clubhouse right now. Seems like that to me.

Yeah, yeah. And one of the things we'd like to test, and we'll just kind of throw this out there now that we're going to start experimenting with this a little bit, is when new episodes go live. Let's say we have a Pat Flynn episode, for instance, that went live a couple weeks ago, but at the time that this is released. Right. Hasn't been released at the actual time, but we have a Pat Flynn episode that came out a few weeks ago. Right. Well, when that episode came out, we probably contacted Pat Flynn and said, hey, do you want to do a Clubhouse room with us? The episode just came out today. We could kind of quickly talk about some of the topics on the episode and use it as a promotional tool to drive people to the podcast. We go do like a 30 minute session with Pat, pick his brain, pull up some other guests to pick his brain a little bit, and then wrap the clubhouse up by saying, go listen to the episode that just came out today with Pat Flynn. I think it's a great marketing strategy to market the latest episode. And we're gonna pull a bunch of Pat Flynn fans onto that Clubhouse room, because just by him joining the room with us, it's going to notify his fans that he just joined a room. Right. So we can pull a bunch of his fans in and then point them all over to where they can listen to that episode with us and Pat. Right. So that's one of the things we're going to experiment with is kind of doing these little, like, bonus additional Clubhouse rooms with guests of the podcast to promote their episode around the time the episode comes out.

Yep. Yeah. And what better way to share that value with both the audiences? We can all share in the audiences as well. Yeah. It's so cool, man. So I think, yeah, if you're a podcaster listening, think about the implications of Clubhouse like this. And, you know, a lot of. There have been a lot of rooms in Clubhouse that are also like, is Clubhouse going to kill podcasting? I don't think so.

Like, it's going to help podcasting.

Yeah, it's going to totally help. It's just feeding into what podcast does so well, and they both serve different uses, and it's perfect. You know, it's a great blend. So we're going to see a lot of, I think, evolution in the audio space and collaboration because of both of them.

Well, I'm still on Clubhouse, but I'm also still listening to podcasts. I listen to them at different times. I get on Clubhouse when I feel like.

I'll get pinged and see sessions that look interesting to me and I'll pop on from time to time. But those are timely things. My podcast listening is almost like a scheduled thing. Right. I listen to my podcast when I go walk the dog. I listen to podcasts while I'm working out. I listen to podcasts while I'm driving in the car. Right. I'll listen to Clubhouse a little more sporadically. Or we'll start our own rooms in Clubhouse and we'll specifically time them out. It hasn't cannibalized podcasts for me and my own consumption experience.

I've listened to three podcasts just today, different episodes. And so, no, it hasn't. And you're right, because when you're on Clubhouse, you want to look at your phone for a lot of it because you're looking at profiles. You're there to collaborate, and you're there to see who's hanging out with you, because if you didn't, you'd have no damn clue who's even talking. So it's like, what's the point? You're not gonna do that when you're. Yeah. Running or working out or driving. You know, so there's gonna be a use for all of it. And I don't know why people haven't really talked about it in that way where it's like, no, if you're in Clubhouse, you're literally, like, using your phone if you want to be effective on the platform.

Yeah, for sure. So it's, that's, it feels very gamified in that way. Like you're trying to collect more followers and you're trying to provide value. And, like, I don't know, I'm very sort of neurotic about it, like, and very sort of ego driven when I'm on there. Because I'll be up on stage. Hey, I'm just being transparent. Like, I'll be up on stage and we'll be sharing some, what we think are some nice Jim Gaffigans.

Jim Hackings.

Jim Hackings. You know, we're sharing some nice gems. And when I'm done speaking, I'm almost always going and clicking on my profile going, did that little bit of wisdom get me some new followers? You know what I mean?

Like, I do the same thing.

Ego driven, but I do it.

I mean, that is a Jim Carrey if I've ever heard one. There you go. Had to throw a gym in there. A new one. You're right. I mean, that's, it's. Now's the time. I mean, at the end of the day, something that I did hear, I think it was Kamal or Naval talk about in that VC chat, which I found so interesting, because these, you know, they just have a whole different perspective. They were all saying, they're like, the sooner you're in the platform and the sooner you can gather a following on this platform, you're gonna be sitting pretty, pretty soon.

Yeah.

So do the work now.

Yeah. I mean, just imagine getting up to where you got 20,000 plus followers in this platform and you've got a new product coming out this week. Do you know how easy it is to just quickly open up your megaphone and tell those 20,000 people you've got a new program coming out this week? That's the power of this platform. And right now it's not like Facebook or Twitter or Instagram where they got these complex algorithms that are like hiding things from you and they need to make more money. So there's ads that are supporting it. So they want to show you ads in between. Like, none of that is happening yet. Right. I don't even believe that their long term plan is to advertise or monetize through advertising. I think their long term plan is to monetize through private paid rooms where you can be members of clubs.

But because there's not these real complex algorithms there yet, it's still really, really, really easy to get discovered and grow a following. And that probably is going to change because I don't think the way it is now is going to scale. So they're going to have to figure out ways to keep the experience at scale. And the way you keep experiences positive for people at scale is by introducing algorithms and backing off what they're showing you and trying to predict what you're going to be most and only showing you that stuff. Right. Like that's what Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and all those other platforms are doing now. Clubhouse isn't doing that yet.

Yeah, yeah. They don't need to, but they will. I'm sure they'll do something. And they seem very transparent so far, which is rad. And this is what we're hearing from. It's what I heard from the VC folks, because actually one of the founders was in that chat too. But they also have these townhouse meetings every weekend where they're basically talking about what they're doing in the app. And so it's like there's no better way to figure out how to use this thing rather than just hear from the friggin people themselves, the creators. Yeah. So all that to say is that I think we're gonna keep finding new.

Now I'm searching New Jim. Jim Morrisons and I actually looked at a list of gyms. I cheated. I looked at famous gyms.

Jim Collins.

Jim Collins. Yes.

Jim Hansen. The Muppets.

Jim Henson.

Yeah, like that. So I think we're going to come up with a lot more gyms as we continue to use Clubhouse. So you probably keep hearing us chat.

About it, and there's other things that we haven't even touched on yet. Like you can create clubs which are kind of like their versions of almost like a Facebook group, but we don't.

Have a lot of experience.

Yeah, we don't. We don't know it yet. We haven't really played with that ourselves. We can't really speak into it. And I'm sure at some point we'll be talking about Clubhouse on another episode, another therapy session. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks for us. Right. Because we did a podcast episode probably two or three years ago now where I was raving about how much I like Steemit as a blogging platform and you can earn crypto by blogging. And I was all pumped up on it. And then two months later I wasn't talking about it anymore. So we'll see if Clubhouse goes that route. I don't think it will. I think Clubhouse has got so much momentum and it's got the backing of Silicon Valley. It's got the backing of celebrities and a list actors, and Ashton Kutcher's on there and all the people from Shark Tank are on there.

Wasn't Brad Costanza yesterday talking to Paris Hilton?

I was in a room with Paris Hilton, too. She was talking. I was in a biohacking room. Right. And the all they were talking about various biohacks and like, how to hack your sleep and. And then. And the topic switched to, like, superfood kind of stuff. And somebody brought up the fact that caviar is coming out as like, this superfood now and that caviar has, like, all sorts of health benefits for you and you should eat more caviar. And Paris Hilton jumped up and she just started raving about how much she loves caviar and how she eats caviar every day. And I was just like, this is so freaking surreal. I'm essentially on a phone call with Paris Hilton talking about how much she loves caviar.

It's random af.

Yeah.

First time I heard that about caviar. Awful. Look into it.

Man. So how should we wrap this puppy up? I know we didn't really get into the hints about our business.

Well, let's give some quick hints.

Let's do that. Yeah. So I feel like there's hints on multiple spectrums or sides of the spectrum in our business. So let's start with the more obvious side, I guess, you know, when it comes to our membership and stuff.

Yeah. So one of the things we're talking about doing and, you know, we'd love listener feedback on this, so feel free to write in to us infovergreenprofits.com or you could write to Matt Wvergreenprofits or Joe F. Evergreen. Profits, doesn't matter. We'll get them no matter which of those emails you use. But write into us and let us know what you think. But we're talking about reviving the POD Hacker brand. And with the Pod Hacker brand doing, like a monthly membership where every month we're bringing in some of the biggest experts in the digital marketing world. But specifically speaking on how to grow and better monetize podcasts and YouTube channels.

And, you know, content.

Content, how to better grow and monetize the reach of your content. And every month it's just a different expert. But we're talking, like the best of the best. Like, we're going to go pay people their speaker fees to come in and speak to this audience every month so that they're not pitching, they're not, you know, it's not like a sales webinar every month. It's. It's them coming in and speaking for their speaker fee to this audience. Specifically tailored towards how to grow your audience for your podcast, your YouTube channel, your blog, whatever you're working on, as well as creative ways to monetize it. But really, really kind of staying in that lane and building up the pod hacker brand through that.

Yeah. And the big something we realized recently, individually, but also together, Matt and I, is our superpower is curation. It's curation of the best people in the industry for you to listen to. So that starts obviously in this podcast is was the big aha moment that we recently had. I mean, there was a night where I literally was like, oh my gosh, it's like every single person we bring on this podcast has this trickle effect. And to you, the listener and your customers and all that, because the strategies they give us, so it's those people we curate really affect a lot of lives. And what's to say we can't continue the curation and go even deeper with these experts? And also from our podcast, which are already curated as the best in our network for whatever topic that's important, that's relevant to you. But let's take that a step further and now spend an hour is kind of what we're planning, a deeper dive session where it's like a masterclass. Maybe not as polished as masterclass videos are if you're a masterclass user, but it's essentially, it's like, let's deep dive into SEO and how that, you know, how a podcast or a creator on YouTube, a blogger can all leverage these concepts and the trends right now. But like, let's also walk you through some specifics with screen capture and slides and all this other cool stuff and.

Q and A, like Q and access to these people as well. So you know, the members of this pod hacker community that we're talking about revitalizing, you know, it's not just the, hey, here's the latest, greatest growth hack through SEO to grow a podcast. Right. But you're also getting that opportunity to, you know, pick the brain of these guest experts that we're bringing on. So it's not this like one to many communication like the podcast. It's, you know, it's us a guest expert and you guys getting to hang out with this guest expert and ask all your questions.

So the other piece to this whole thing that so Podhacker as the brand, something that Matt and I have realized is that we have this interesting intersection of people that follow us on the podcast and who are already members of our. The membership, the EGP membership and all.

That.

In the overlap is really in the digital marketing scene from a lot of the top experts and people that we bring on. Like even a lot of our guests become listeners, I think. I don't know why, but it's so damn cool. And I think that was part of the realization that, like, we have a huge responsibility to bring the best people on this podcast, but also the best people in the POD Hacker membership so you can again, you know, just dive deeper and affect your business and all these things for the better. So the POD hacker brand, we realized, okay, well, in the POD hacker creator community, there's a lot of people struggling with some of these digital marketing principles that we bring on these experts. That's why you said we were bringing in experts mainly in the marketing, digital marketing space, because it could be applied to the content creators over here in the podcasting space, in the YouTube space and all this, where they might not be aware of even just the power of an email list and, you know, things like that and how some cool strategies that we, we use or maybe we kind of take for granted. So obviously it's. It's not to isolate digital marketers who might be joining, you know, us in that pod hacker journey. It's more of us, like planting the flag in the sand is what we're thinking here is like, hey, that creator community is like starving for some of these strategies. And we've noticed that in the sessions that we'll do a pod fest where it's like people out of the room and we're just talking about growth hacks or monetization. And it's a lot of the affiliate marketing principles that we talk about on here, it's essentially that's going to be in the pod hacker community. So the branding pod hacker, I think, is just kind of fun too, but it's also going to allow us to get that POD hacker, our podcast and creator community, and also digital marketers kind of blended into one when I feel like it's really needed right now.

Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of the first thing. And then the other thing is we're looking to work with some companies. We're looking to.

Talk to some companies that are stuck and help them get unstuck. Right now we tend to have very sort of creative perspectives on businesses. We can look at businesses and find the little missing pieces that you're probably too close in your business to spot and show you how to open the floodgates on more sales and more attention to your business. And a lot of the feedback we've been getting from people lately is that that's a superpower of ours, is that we can go in, look at a business and go, dude, all you got to do is, you know, swap out this image here, change this copy to angle it like this, and, you know, get a damn autoresponder built into your business because you're not following up through email, you know, and we, we could come up with these sort of steps to, to fix a business. And by doing this, we've turned businesses that were generating six figures into seven figure businesses. And you know, we, we've managed to just help businesses skyrocket through advice that we've given. So we're talking about putting a little bit more of a container on that and actually offering that as more of a service.

Yeah, yeah, we will offer that. And here's the thing, we're already doing it. And we can only do this for a select number of people because of our capacity. Of course. It's kind of our. It's a big puzzle. It's a game for us when we work with someone that's not in our business because we are a super chat close to our business. And, you know, that's why we join masterminds and have mentors that people like, you know, we mentioned Roland Frazier, Bob Serling, Travis Houston, Brad Costanzo and Steve Ulsher.

Josh Bartlett, Jam.

Yeah, all these people. But I was, yeah, thinking like that mastermind yesterday we joined these masterminds because, yeah, the outside perspective. Josh Bartlett is a perfect example too, you know, and when we, when we work with some of the. So like five people is really our max. That's like the number that we can really go to. And honestly, maybe some of those projects kind of are more. So it's three people. I mean, we might. The idea here is we have a handful of spots. We'd love to kind of play this game with you because we see a lot of stuff obviously from the people that pass through our podcast here, but also in the masterminds, we're in the different connections, conversations that we have outside of the podcast with these people. Like, we're seeing a lot of different connections and strategies and, you know, network just think ways to connect. So if you feel like you want some of our, I guess, our optics, you know, like us, our attention on your business, then hit us up. I would say you can hit me up@joe effvergreenprofits.com Like I said, it's kind of first come, first serve. It's probably going to be something like, hey, let's hop on a quick chat and let's see if we're a good fit. If so, sweet, if not perfect. You know, like, there's a bunch of other cool options out there. But into the day we're working with, we want to work with the most committed folks that want to do something that they just feel like they're a little stuck on themselves and they want to have us as folks to kind of just be that outside advisor person or people that are just kind of like, we got your back, you know, like we can kind of be afar a little macro, but at the same time micro when it needs to be. That's really where the power comes from working with us. And I think the folks that we're working with now, it's just kind of fun to do. But we want to go deeper because it hasn't been like an official arrangement, you know.

Yeah. Not to mention that working with us opens up our Rolodex as well. And I think, you know, I don't want to toot my own horn, but I think our Rolodex is fairly impressive these days.

So it impresses me. So I'm sure it's. Yeah, it's crazy. So you're right. I mean, so if it's get on podcasts, get connections, affiliate partners, all that kind of stuff, I mean, that's the game we play. And like I said, we kind of do it for, we'll do it for just being cool because it's in our nature. But if you actually want us to focus on, you're like, okay, here's the fricking plan and here's your gaps or things that you think that we can really blow up for you, then we would happy to chat with you and possibly work together if it's a good fit. So let's just have some fun and see. So hit me up, Joe fvergreenprofits.com if that sounds like a fit. And also on the pod hacker side. So that's kind of like a spectrum of our business right there. You have pod hacker on one and then you have.

Kind of working with us a little closer. And I guess that spectrum is just like, okay, how much of our time do you want us around? And obviously you kind of can choose. So that's what we're realizing in our biz. I think that kind of Fits our flow here. So we can keep the podcast cranking like we have been, too.

Yeah, yeah. So the higher level working with you is something that we're definitely doing. We're doing it already anyway for a handful of companies. The Pod Hacker sort of Mastermind monthly meetup group, where we bring in these experts every month. That's one of the ideas we're sort of toying around. We haven't 100% specifically mapped out the model and said, yes, we're going full force on this thing, but we're pretty close to going pretty all in on that. So we'd love your feedback when you hear this episode, whether or not that sounds like something you'd be interested in and you'd find that valuable. And again, just to sort of recap what the concept is, every month we bring in the biggest guest expert on a specific topic, and then we have them speak specifically to creators, YouTubers, podcasters, bloggers, people like that, and specifically say, okay, I am a Facebook ads expert. If I was a podcaster, here's what I would be doing right now, and really, really, really speaking into what to do in, you know, in that area, in that creator space. So it would really be a platform designed for creators to, you know, get the information from these people, but also rub. Rub shoulders with these people as well. Right. You're going to be in the room with them. You're going to have the ability to ask them questions. You're going to get them to answer questions specifically tailored to your own business and your own content. So it's the room where it happens. The room where it happens in the room.

It's all being in the room right where it happens. That's right, yeah. And give us your feedback. I think that's the biggest thing. So contact us and, you know, if there's something that you. You're looking for that we can provide either in the Pod Hacker side of things, like, we really definitely want feedback on that concept. Both, you know, it's kind of the positioning, like the markets we're going after, but also, you know, if this sounds like a. If you're loving the Evergreen Profits membership and you want to extend things that you learn on the podcast to a whole nother level. Think about it from that lens. And what other things, you know, ways can we serve you for kind of a little bit more of a higher touch experience. That's really what we're going for here. And, and give us. And also, even. And obviously, if you want to just hop on a phone call or Whatever. Either way, send us some emails. Joe F. @ evergreenprofits and Matt. Matt R. No, Matt. Wvergreenprofits.com will get you to us. We.

Know. Well, I think that kind of wraps up all the stuff we wanted to cover in this one. Only an hour and 20 minutes in which lately for our podcast. That's a short episode. That's pretty average episode, I.

Think. Yeah, it is actually pretty average. But dude, I was stoked on this. This episode went very deep into Clubhouse, which I think is super timely, and then tied it into business and some of these other ways that we're attaching it here. Yeah, I mean, that's like a takeaway. I think it's just like really interesting ways to get collaborations going right now and attention on whatever you're doing. And you could see with this kind of new variation of offers with Pod Hacker and even working officially with a handful of clients, even though we've done it in the past, but now we're actually publicly saying it all, just kind of shows how you can create a nice little closed loop system on the back of content. For us, it's all starting here in the podcast platform. And then from there it kind of seeps into all these other things and. And I don't know, it's just something we're nerding out. Talking about how you can create so much badass content, connect with a bunch of people, but like, you're growing super fans and then you can monetize all this stuff together in so many different ways. That's what we're nerding out about. And I think that's what you're gonna get more of from us in Pod hacker specifically. And 100% if you choose to work with us. That's like the sweet spot is like, how do we grow? Let's create some super fans for your business and then let's make some doe flow in many ways, not just one. That's the key fo.

Show. Now make sure. Make sure you grab the notes for this episode if you haven't already. Flowchartgroup.com join the Facebook group. Give us your email while joining the Facebook group and we'll hook you up with the.

Notes. Do you think there's anything good in these.

Notes? Probably not, but you know, I'm setting you.

Up. I was trying.

To. No, no, it's all just. I'm pretty sure the notes are just gonna be scribbles of.

Cats. Sue just did this. Oh, yeah, no, she's really good with like Artwork and stuff. So maybe it's like a flowcharty thing with stickers and cut out.

Figurines. There you.

Go. There you.

Go. So I mean, you got to go to Flowchart Group to find out, though. So that's.

True. Flowchart group.com. that's right. And then we have. Sorry, Easy Webinar. So, Webinar Y people, were you.

About to say hard Webinar? Because Hard Webinar sucks compared to Easy.

Webinar. That's true. Don't buy a hard webinar. Don't even go to that.

URL. I don't know what you're going to find. I.

Know. I'm kind of like, I just don't want to even test it. So, yeah, we're going to leave it there. Easy Webinar are the guys and gals that we support. So if you go there, it's actually easywebinar.com hustle. They're hooking you up with a fatty discount, depending on the plan you choose. And if you're doing any kind of webinars at all, live streams, even if you have a group, you know, there's a lot of ways to use Easy Webinar. They basically have the software that does it all for you. So go check it out. Easywebinar.com.

Hustle. Do.

It. And yeah. So Clubhouse. Reach out to us with any feedback.

Yeah. Follow us at Matt Wolfir. We're on.

There. Give us feedback on the stuff we talked about here. Other than that, go spread this around to your friends. If someone's thinking about Clubhouse, if they want to understand hype at Clubhouse and why, maybe, or whoever, the critics, the cynics send it to them, but also the people that might just want to hear it. Just go share this around, please. Yep. Absolutely. Helps your boys.

Out. Lots of gems in.

There. How many gems did you.

Count? At least.

Seven. We have a whole room. That's it. I'm pretty.

Sure. Well, how many? I was trying to think of how many times we said Jim on this.

Episode. Maybe seven.

Ish.

Yeah. All right, well, we'll end it with a good Jim.

Gaffigan. There you.

Go. All right, there's one last gym for you. Bye, y'. All.

Bye. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for.

Listening. Go get it.

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