Therapy Sessions 👥 Analyzing What Makes Us Tick

Boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys Mount Wolf and Joe Fear. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

Hi there.

My name is Matt Wolf.

Hey, Matt, how you doing?

I'm here with Joseph Fier.

Huh?

Is that how you pronounce it?

Joseph.

Joseph Fier.

Joseph, yeah.

Anyway, who's our guest today?

Me.

You're our guest.

And you?

Yeah, we don't have a guest. It's a duet.

It's a duet. And we're actually using these cool fancy new mic stands. Yeah, we don't have to hold these mics anymore. This is really cool.

I actually feel like a stand up comic because I just like hold the mic and like lean on it all the time.

Right, but you could do the mic drop still though?

Yeah, I could do it. If I took it off the clip.

It's gonna blast people's eardrums.

So today we thought it would be pretty cool to do a little kind of behind the scenes episode. I think one of the things that we get asked fairly often or not asked, but some of the commentary we get fairly often is that we really like it when you don't have guests. We really like the episodes where you guys just kind of talk about what's going on and what you're learning right now and what you guys are up to. We've had multiple people tell us like, you guys should do more episodes like that. So we're kind of trying to make a conscious decision to do like one of them a month or something. So here's this month's.

This is this month's. Yeah, no, it's. I think these are fun. I love it. And this is full transparency. We have not pre planned this. So we might sound a little scattered at power points, but promise we'll get to the point. And you're probably going to hear better stuff this way. If it's like pre scripted. This is weird. Our mental block usually stops if we try to plan too much. We're just talking about this like our personalities, we more or less trust the outcome. Well, we think that we're going to nail the outcome, but the process to get to the outcome might be a little fuzzy. We kind of bounce back and forth, indecisive on things, very decisive on things. We're like, shit, that didn't work. Let's try the other way.

We tend to know what point A is and what point Z is, but all the Points in between are a mystery as we go.

Isn't that interesting, though? Because I think a lot of folks don't try things or start new businesses or try new projects or invest in something without totally knowing. You know, it's interesting you. Because we just took this. Well, you are. Thank you. It's not a point until I hear.

What you have to say.

No, you are a very analytical person, one that likes to know the steps, you know, five steps out or whatever. But it's interesting that you are so cool with just kind of trusting that it'll work out more or less. How does that work for you? I'm just kind of curious.

I don't know if that's necessarily. Necessarily how my brain is working. I think that's sort of my outward appearance towards things.

Yeah, but your actions, though, you still.

Yeah, I mean, I've definitely had to hone in on letting go of control and knowing the exact path a lot.

You know, like, do you blame me for that?

Do I blame you? No, I think I'm. Therapy session.

No, we're not.

I think I blame historical evidence more than anything. Right. Like.

No, I'm just genuinely curious. Like.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's actually great topic of discussion because Joe, we literally just took this assessment. Joe, you pronounce it, I don't know, the.

Enneagram.

Enneagram.

Enneagram.

Yes. Shannon. Hey, Shannon. I'm sure you're tuning into this.

She doesn't listen to our shows. She's tired of us already.

She told us to take this personality quiz because she knows we're into Colby, and we've done the disc assessment and the Myers Briggs and all the. We've taken so many assessments and shared data and tried to better understand how to communicate with each other and how to sort of operate in our own zones of genius and that sort of thing. So we took this one, and this is a very fresh topic on our minds. My. If you know anything about this test, my dominant one was a number six. Basically, what that means is that I like structure, I like safety, I like, know where we're knowing where we're going. I don't like uncertainty, and I tend to get a little more anxious than most people when that uncertainty isn't. Is there. Right. When I don't have a very clear picture, I tend to have anxiety and panic and that sort of thing. But over the years, I feel like that hasn't served me the best. It's still there, but I've had to sort of push down that internal dialogue that tells me, okay, you're trying to go from A to Z, but you don't know steps B or F or K yet. So let's just not do anything until you know all the steps. Right. That's kind of how my brain, by default operates. But I've had to suppress that part of my brain and go, okay, I know A, I know Z. We're going to fucking figure it out the rest of the way.

Yeah. That's kind of interesting.

And I lean heavily on our network and connections. I think that's one thing that we sort of. We don't take it for granted. You and I talk about it all the time, but I think a lot of people take that for granted. Like who you know, who you. Who you have access to, who you can go to for advice and support and help at any time. And that network for us has grown bigger and bigger and bigger, especially in the space that we operate in, in the marketing business space.

Let's dog ear that a little bit actually, about network and lateraling over to, like, something else. And also what we were talking about yesterday about kind of taking for granted how far we've come and how much we have. You know, when we meet someone, like a high school.

Yeah.

Friend of ours that we've lost touch with in the last 20 years or whatever.

Yeah.

Dog ear those mental notes.

Sure.

Okay, cool.

Yeah. So. But, you know, so with us, I know that we have a big network of people with various levels of expertise. Right. So we know we're. We're great friends with Kurt Molly, we're good friends with David Schloss. We're good friends with Ralph Burns. We're good friends with. With all of these people that have a very wide breadth of knowledge in the Facebook world.

Shout out to Ralph. By the way, overtime sponsor one of.

Our events during traffic in Brid. Thank you. I don't tend to stress out about, like, oh, what are we gonna do with Facebook ads? Cause I know I've got like, access to a handful of people that I can count on at any time to ask questions about how to get there.

And you default like, you're better. Eh, we're both getting better. I'll say. But you default to pretty good asking your network for questions. I feel like you default to that where I more or less will kind of try to hack it out myself. Or research, which is interesting because I'm not typically a researcher and I am more people forward doing these tests. It's kind of cool, just even question answering the questions. There's like 144 questions. You almost. Because you start answering the questions and you're saying, yes, that's me.

I found it hard. I found it hard because I found.

It interesting because you're learning in the process, too. For me, I saw. Because I compare myself, because you and I and my wife, like, with the three. Those are, like, the three or the two people I talk to the most.

So I was, like, comparing, okay, yeah, my wife want to do this, or I would do this, or Matt would do this, you know? So I'm like, oh, shit, that's crazy. I could think that way now. Like, I could see what he said, you know, I could get in his head a little bit.

Well, it's true. But the reason I found it hard was every question was two questions, right? It was just like a question A or a possible A or B answer. There wasn't like, a whole bunch of options. And I would say probably 25% of the questions I went, man, I can identify with both of those pretty well. I actually kind of struggled with a lot of them. But when you sort of break it all down and you look back at, like, what my actual score was, it was a six. I'm somebody that overthinks things. I get anxious about things. I second guess myself a lot. I fucking did that throughout the entire goddamn test. Right? I was taking this test, and every single question, I was looking at both of them going, I identify with both of these. And then I would click on one. I'm like, I think I identify with this one most. Actually, on second thought, no. Identify with this one a little. And so I was literally doing that throughout the whole test. So when it got to the end of the test and I read it, it's like, you tend to overanalyze, overthink, and second guess yourself. I'm like.

You're like, do I? Do I really?

I don't think I do. No, no, I probably do. No, no. I don't know. I don't.

I don't know. I have to think about that a little further.

But anyway, so coming back to it, I think the reason I've been able to sort of suppress that thing where if I don't know how I'm going to get there, I still jump into it, is that I feel like our safety net over the years has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger in the form of a network. So if I don't know how to make a landing page, if I don't know how to do something that we're trying to do like in the E comm space or don't know how to develop a software or talk to a team member. We know we have people we can go to and get the advice in those areas. Which makes me feel a little more comfortable, you know, jumping without double checking my parachute a little bit. Double check.

No, it's, it's, it's interesting. And I'm. I'm a seven is my dominant trait. I totally forget exactly what it was because I did not read it that long, but essentially it described exactly who I am as well.

People pleaser.

No.

People pleaser.

No.

That was in there, wasn't it?

I don't know. They don't say it is that. What the hell is it?

So yours, yours tends to be a little.

The enthusiast is mine is the name of it.

Which ironically was my least dominant.

Well, this is what's interesting. So Matt guessed that I was a. And the three most dominant for me.

Are a seven two and a nine.

Seven two, nine. Yeah, it's exactly your mirror.

Yep.

Which is crazy. So Matt's least are 7:2:9, the enthusiast, the helper and the Peacemaker. Where I'm like, those are my strengths.

Yeah.

Which is pretty crazy.

It just means that I hate people and you like people.

Yeah. I mean it's an interesting. Well, this is why we've been told we're a good balance for each other. And I still think I'm like, how the hell can we coexist in a business and be friends but be similar?

I don't think most people would.

I don't know, man. Yeah, so enneagram. It's interesting. And it's only like 12 bucks.

Yeah. It costs 12 bucks. Your wife's gonna take it. I'm gonna ask my wife to take it. It's good info because you kind of learn how other people's sort of default states are and how they will tend to react to things. That's kind of why I was a big. I was kind of anti these assessments for a long time and up until about two years ago when I took the Colby and the disc sort of back to back that I kind of start to really see the power. It's like I felt like there's this like self fulfilling prophecy. If it told me that I was this way, then I would steer more in that direction because that's what I was told.

Right.

But my, my stance on it sort of changed over time. Where they were pretty accurate. Right. I'd read them and I would read if I read other ones and go, yeah, that doesn't sound like me at all, but. Cause I was always a little weary that maybe it was like that sort of like go to like a. What do you call it? Like a psych. Not a psychopath.

Oh, psychics.

A psychic, yeah, yeah, they're psychopaths. Not a psychopath, but a psychic. Like you go to a psychic and like a lot of times they may say like, oh, you're the type that just puts too much trust in others and can often feel overwhelmed and tends to put too many things on your plate that can fucking apply to anybody. Right. But you're sitting there going, yeah, that sounds like me. That sounds just like me.

You didn't even ask any questions of me, but you're just looking at me.

Right. So I thought like it was going to be that type of thing where they're telling you things that kind of apply to everybody. So you go, oh, this is right on. And then also there's that self fulfilling prophecy element where they're like, oh, you're over analytical and because it tells me that I tend to start analyzing more often because I was told that was my impression of those sort of things.

Yeah.

But what I've realized now is that I'm not taking those as much for myself and for it to tell me who I am and why I act this way. I'm more taking them so that I could go out there and tell you this is who I am, this is why I act this way. This is right. It's more of a tool for other people than it is for me. I mean it's great to understand, to read through this stuff and follow the advice that it gives you on. Here's some ways that you can kind of be more at peace with the way that you are. I like that stuff, but I see this as more of a tool to like share with other people. Hey, here's who I am and why I'm like this. And they can get a better sort of insight into my brain and how to communicate with me. That's why my shifting. That's where the shift came for these assessments for me.

And that's how we landed, you know, Shannon as our. I'm just going to call her CEO. CEO? That is not CEO. She's taking, taking the top. But we matched her up with the Colby assessment along with a whole great assistant.com friggin process there. But that was totally based off of personalities. And you and I have been able to communicate better after this. I'm sure. Even better than what we were before.

And I think it also gives you ways to improve. So some things that you feel like you could shore up a little bit. Well, cool. Now you're aware that this is true in this assessment and probably some other previous assessments we've probably seen the similar thing like oh, okay, maybe that something, you know.

Well, even you, you like to go back and even like refer to past assessments and like reread them from time to time and, and just sort of get like sort of a fresh perspective on it.

Well, for me, yeah, and I've said it before, is that it's a good way to release maybe some pressure I've been putting on myself to get good at this a treat or something. And you know, there's definitely. You can get better at things. And I know a lot of that becomes habit and you know, just training yourself over time. But it's really cool because you could see the ones that you need some help in, you know, if you choose, you need help in that.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, it's nice. So Enneagram, that's E N N E A G R A M. Yeah, just.

Google it because that's not the actual domain. It's actually.

That's the name of the enneagram.

I'm surprised enneagram.com wasn't available, but they got Enneagram Institute.

Who knows, maybe.

Maybe they have that too.

I don't know. Yeah. If you're not paying 12 bucks, if it's over 12 bucks. Probably in the wrong place.

Yeah. It'd be interesting to see what kind of following we have listening to this. So go into our group and let us know what you are. Because we love talking about the assessments now. That's almost like one of our favorite things to do is like take an assessment, kind of get a little bit different of a picture of how our brain works and then discuss. Sure.

Just think about how even Shannon was saying that she's had her whole family do this, a lot of her friends. That's why we're having our wives do this. And it's just to just think about how much easier life can be if you actually understand the other person you're talking to, especially a loved one that you're trying to communicate with effectively and not be anxious, not have these blow up fights. If that's your kind of thing. You could prevent a lot of these things that none of us want, which is like just love. Just be cool and have fun and enjoy the time. We are. We're on this Planet together, but actually, like, understand each other, so, you know, give you a little bit more space or time to make a decision for you, Matt, and for me, you know, have freedom to not freaking sit in the office all day long, because I'll freak out if I do. So it's like little things like that. You're like, oh, you know what? A little freedom there.

Yeah. I still find it hilarious. At every single assessment we've ever taken, our scores are pretty much mirror images of each other. They're like the exact opposite.

It just shows how pretty accurate this is.

Colby disc, this one that we just took. You haven't actually taken the Myers Briggs yet? No, I couldn't find my score. But you took it. I took it a while ago. I don't remember what my score was, but I think I've taken it, like, twice. And both times I took it, my score came out differently.

Vastly different.

No, they were close variations, but they.

Were slightly different because they're not really supposed to change. I could see it changing a little bit over time, but not a lot. A lot?

Yeah. I mean, something like a Colby and this one that we just took. Don't see those ones changing. The Myers Briggs. I don't know. I feel like with personal development, work and experience and time changes people, and I do see the Myers Briggs as being one that could be sort of a little more fluid. Like, you probably won't jump from this personality type to the complete mirror image, opposite personality type, but there are some personality types that are very closely related that sort of overlap. And I can see you kind of being in the in between. So when you take it one time, you're in this slot, and when you take it the next time, your number kind of drops you into this slot. But.

Yeah, I think that one can evolve a little bit.

Yeah.

I mean, even this one that we just took, I can see some areas where it might evolve, because a lot of the questions are based around, are you more like data and methodical and analytical and making moves based on data, or are you more like people based, emotion based? Are you making decisions based off of quick emotions? Are you making decisions off of trying to please others? There's a lot of questions around that, and I can actually see that possibly over time changing.

Right.

Like, I could at some point. I tend to lean more on the, like, data, methodical, like, look at the outcome approach, where I think, based on your results, you tend to lean more on the, you know, a little bit more emotional and a little bit more thinking of other people. And how this is going to affect other people. Right, right. So. But I can see that's something that would evolve and change, you know, through things like, you know, meditation and substance use. Legal substance use.

Water. We're talking about water. Right.

You can. You can sort of, like, expand your thinking and all of a sudden have this, like, great love and enjoyment for just wanting to help other people more.

It's us shining lights on stuff that, you know, if there's something we want to get better at. I mean, I'm constantly doing stuff. If I feel like, yeah, like, for me, if I'm too much of the peacemaker, like, that's my third most powerful trait out of this whole list, you know, if I'm constantly trying to give my all to someone else, to my clients, to my loved ones, to whoever you, you know, and at the end of the day, I'm gonna give way too much damn energy to that person and not to what I want for myself. That's been my biggest aha in the last few weeks here is trying to cut the cord to these energy drains in my life that completely put this weird, energetic weight on my chest. Because that literally is something that I've done recently is cutting ties to some places and trippy. But it's like, within just a five minutes, it can. Like, for me, I experienced a complete shift in my body, and now it's like, no neck pain, chest. Like, there's a lot of cool stuff that happens if you choose to change these things that, you know, you might not realize are draining you. It could be anxiety in some ways. You know, it could be. I don't know what all these other ones are, but any trait that you feel like might be a good trait. I don't know. It's worth examining and see how that actually feels like something I'm doing. I shared with you. And this is something I was talking to Mark's Acosta Rubio. He's been on the show before, and.

He introduced us to tapping and havening. We've had the doctor on.

And I do this now. It's interesting, but twice in the shower where I'll just have these thoughts and be like, okay, and kind of almost meditate. And then something pops up. I'm like, oh, shit, I gotta really work on that thing. Like, usually it starts off like, oh, I got too much on my to do list. I got so much shit. And then, you know, and this is actually a couple days ago, I was like, oh, I should just be a lot more decisive on what I Think, like, I really feel like is important here, not what others are dictating or like, this email that, oh, send me these swipes. Email swipes. Or, you know, it's like, wait, that's not important. Mute. Or, you know, pause for I don't know, a day and, like, reflects to me. It was like, I'll usually start with this, like, cluster and then I'll morph into, oh, I just need to be more decisive and, like, prioritize better and, like, get to more of this root. And there's probably even more to that, too.

Yeah.

But that's what I've been working on, like, twice a day. I'm like, holy shit. That's like a big old shift in.

My kind of day for me. Like, my therapy is quite honestly, this is gonna sound cheesy, but quite honestly, this podcast and journaling. Because I tend to be someone who bottles up stuff, you know, and fucking suppresses it and shit. Right. Like, when I have emotions that I don't, like, I just try to, like, shut them down. Go take a puff on my puff pen.

Water pen.

My water pen. You know, I try to think of ways to sort of calm the anxiety and just bury it and never let it out again.

Yeah.

But, you know, doing things like this podcast, you and I, when we tend to get together, we're very fucking open with each other. Like, anything goes pretty much. And so we try to.

One thing that you don't want to tell anybody about, right?

Yeah, but we can't tell.

We can't tell them that. Okay, carry on. Sorry to bring that up.

Now everybody's sitting there going, dark secret or are they fucking around? You'll never know.

Just come out to San Diego, buy us enough beers or something at Traffic and Conversion. You'll get the secret.

Oh, man, we're so disappointed.

Don't tell them that.

No, but you and I, when we have conversations, like, we get, like, pretty open and vulnerable, pretty much like, nothing is off limits. And so when we do these sort of duet episodes, they're like. We called our last one a therapy session. Cause it legit. We're just kind of. I feel like trying to recreate some of those conversations that we have outside of recording. On the recording.

Yeah.

So, you know, you and I have each other as outlets. Just fucking brain dump stuff. You and I have this recording and all of our guests that we can brain dump on them or brain dump on each other and then anything. When we don't brain dump here, I try to brain up on the journal and I feel like that is how I sort of keep the anxiety and the wheels turning and the. Oh, shit, I don't know how to get from A to Z. That's how I kind of keep a lot of that at bay, is I just need to unload it from my brain in some way or another.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that earlier. I was like, man, we take it not for granted, but I tend to sometimes forget when Matt's like, all right.

You ready to record?

And we start recording, I'm like, I forget that there's thousands of people listening to this every single time. I appreciate you listening, but I'm like, yeah, it's. It's very odd because have you ever.

Had anyone criticize anything that you said from a vulnerable place?

Not at all. Of course not. No. And that's why I love our listeners. And if you are gonna criticize me, get the hell off our podcast. No, but so to talk, go back to what you were saying about opening up on the podcast. Literally, all you did was throw some mics and a mic stand in front of your face. I happen to show up to your house, and you hit this little red button, and you're like, it's recording.

Yeah, it's true.

And then all of a sudden, that's boom.

Well, here's the problem. Like, I. I know myself. I know my tendencies. And so if we sit here and go, what should we talk about today? What should we.

Like, that's like the death of any content from us. Should we.

Should we outline on the whiteboard the topics we want to get into on this podcast?

Hell, no.

Now you just threw me into analyze mode instead of go mode. Right.

Actually, that's very true, because we were talking about. Remember, there's another thing is that.

We were talking about Toastmasters. Remember speaking in front of. You were saying how they really just give you note cards where a few bullet points or so. But really you're memorizing this, but you're memorizing bullet points. Whenever Matt and I talk in front of a stage or when we're on a webinar or doing some training, we have bullet points on the slides, but we're literally just riffing.

We're.

Or just being. We're just seat of our pants, just kind of going with it. Obviously we know what we're talking about, but nothing is scripted. There's nothing like. And that's probably why our webinars probably don't do so well, because we're just like, fucking.

Fucking point.

We're just Having too much fun. So that's why we gotta hire people to help us out.

But side tangent, that's a recording for a different day. It's a duet for a different day.

Yeah, we'll do it then.

A horse of a different color.

Blue. Yeah, but it's interesting to think about all of this. And this is like the. I think these assessments actually, in a little bit of that water pipe we were talking about have allowed me to get a little bit more introspective. A lot more introspective. And these things like you can literally probably go down the results of this enneagram thing and be like, all right, so what the hell does this mean? And then just meditate on that, you know, just breathe on that, whatever. And like I guarantee. Or journal on that. I guarantee you come up with some interesting shit as you peel that layer the onion layers back more and more to the core.

Well, I mean, what I find amazing is when we do assessments and this doesn't happen with every assessment I've taken, but I read an assessment and I feel like it's describing stuff about me that is true, but I didn't realize it until now. It's very rare that you have aha moments around the way your own brain works. And I feel like doing these assessments. I've gotten that from time to time.

It's like an elevated perspective of yourself. It's like looking at yourself as someone else or you know, some, you know, I don't know, thing that's following you. It's interesting because you'll definitely notice stuff that's different. That's a similar little meditation I've done before. So it's like looking at yourself in a way that you never have before. And that's what this thing shines a light on. That's really cool.

Well, one of the things that this assessment, we definitely weren't planning on going this deep down the rabbit hole of talking about assessments, but we're going to actually have to wrap up in about 10 minutes. So we'll have to go to the other thing that you dog eared here in a second. But one of the things that I noticed about my assessment was it was telling me something I already knew, that I get anxiety and my wheels are always turning. But it said that there's. What do they call it? There's phobic and there's anti argo. Right. So the assessment that I am the number six, they said there's a phobic six and a counterphobic six. A phobic Six is somebody that would see things that would give them anxiety and basically go the other direction. Like, if you have.

Avoid it.

Yeah. If you have, like a fear of public speaking, you don't do it. When an option comes up to public speak, you say, no, you go hide in a hole.

You don't raise your phone.

You kind of hide. Right. Or if you're afraid of heights, you don't get on planes, you don't go in tall buildings. Right. That's. That's the phobic variety. And then there's what's called counterphobic, which are the group of sixes that get anxiety and they go, okay, this thing gives me anxiety, so let's move towards it. And that's what I was. I'm sort of classified as is. I look at the things that give me anxiety that scare the shit out of me and go, fuck it, let's go for it. Right. Knowing full well it's going to scare the shit out of me. But I go towards that direction anyway. Examples are public speaking. I've had huge amounts of anxiety towards public speaking. It scares the shit out of me. But I went and signed up for Toastmasters. Every time somebody's coming to me and said, hey, do you want to speak on this stage, or do you want to go to this event and, you know, be on a panel or something, I always say, yes. I always say, that sounds scary as shit, but fuck it, let's do it. Right? I have a fear of heights, a major fear of heights. Right. But I still.

Yeah, you're tall, so, I mean, I think constantly.

I still go up in tall buildings. I still fly on planes. I still still, you know, I went ziplining and I've been rappelling, and I do shit that scares the shit out of me. So I've got this sort of counterphobic thing, and I've never seen it spelled out so succinctly as when I read this. Thing is, I have a lot of anxiety all the time because I'm constantly going towards the shit that scares me all the time.

It's like a growth mentality about it. Yeah. So, all right, before I know, we gotta wrap in, like, six minutes because we have another podcast. We gotta record someone else's. Yeah, this dog earring. Well, we were kind of just reflecting. I guess we could be quick because this would probably take more time, but just kind of reflecting on the path that we've come so far. And, you know, you met someone. Probably don't need to even get into the story now because it would take too long. But the fact that you met someone from your high school, you're buying a car and all that, and you're throwing out some revenue numbers and he's like, shit, times have changed.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and, but you know, in us, in a space and you know, I've definitely had friends throw around different numbers of salaries or, you know, weekly take home pay, whatever the hell it is, and be like, man, that is rolling. That's a crap ton of money. And then secretly in my head I'm like, we get paid more than that. It's not, it's not a bad thing at all. But I'm just like, I'm not going to say anything.

Yeah.

But I'm just like, wow. And then, and then we, and we thought about this is like, we have enough now. Obviously there's more. We want to scale for family wealth, legacy, whatever, you know, but really like where we're at now, you know, and we've been doing this thing for over 10 years, you know, 12, 13 years. Right. This year.

12, 2007. 12 years.

Okay. 12 years. That's crazy. Most people never go through a career and do something that they love. Work at home, spend time with their kids, hang out with their wives all day, whatever it might be, travel when they want and then be like, fuck, I feel like I got what I need.

Yeah. I mean I think most people, I don't want to speak for everybody, but most people have this bad habit, and we both get caught up in it too, of comparing themselves to others instead of comparing themselves to where they've been prior in the journey and I'm not.

Good enough or whatever it is.

And I think that's something that you and I talk about all the time and try to remind ourselves all the time, is that, you know, you look. 12 years ago, 12 years ago, we were both working at a shutter company. It was my parents company. I think we were probably making $15 an hour.

Ish, something like that.

The amount had to be there early.

You did like 6am I was getting.

There at 6am to open the doors for the employees at 6:15. So I was getting up at 5am.

That'S about your hour.

Yeah. So I mean I was making 30 grand a year getting up at 5am and having a job that kind of, you know, stressed me out and had some shit about it that wasn't that fun.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and look, we were deliberate. You were deliberate in that moment. I think your downfall was literally work with the guy that was about to kill you. So it's like, okay.

At least he claimed he was.

Yeah, yeah, he was all talk.

Now he's dead. So.

Yeah, he's dead, man. God rest his soul.

That's not the dirt deep, dirty, dirty secret, by the way. That is not it. So don't go there.

Oh, Jesus. But, yeah, no, the fact of it matters. We took, you know, we took hold of our lives, and we were confident enough at the moment in that time to be like, okay, I want more. Let's go. And we both quit our jobs within a few months of each other.

Yeah.

Got married the same year, too. And, yeah, it was really cool. So. But, you know, to get to this point and I don't know, it just feels like we've been. We've been having fun, experimenting, kind of dicking around, do what we love, obviously work our asses off, but then a lot of times, not work our asses off.

Yeah, it's just. It's been interesting because we've had. I guess what it is is all of the sudden we haven't had this in a long time, but all of a sudden we're seeing a contrast that. We've never really had this contrast effect before. Right. Because. So we're seeing a contrast between where we're at currently in our lives and our business contrasted to people that went to high school with us.

Okay. So who we used to know or the place we were at.

Yeah. So you and I, we operate a lot in our own bubble. Right. You and I talk a lot. Brad Costanza. We talk with Brad a lot. Brad Spencer, James Schramko, Bob Serling. You know, we've got, like. We've got this circle of people that we're talking to, like, multiple times per week. And this is our circle that we're constantly hanging out with and talking business with. And they're at a certain level, so we don't have much contrast. We're seeing people that are kind of doing a lot of similar things that we're doing, learn from each other. When we run into people that we went to, like, high school with, we're all sudden seeing this contrast of, like, oh, wow, we've managed to get ourselves here in our lives, in business, and they're still kind of here. Not. It's not a bad thing. Like, everybody has their own definitions of success, but we're seeing a contrast between our lifestyle and their lifestyle.

Yeah. It's interesting because I think it's the first time you and I have both realized that and have never thought of it in that sense.

Yeah.

But then looking at it, we're like, holy shit.

What do we do to put some context around it? Like, we both kind of live sort of close to where we grew up. We both moved away, and we both kind of ended up right within, like, this.

Sort of within literally a mile or two of each other.

Yeah, we both kind of ended up, like, close to where we grew up. So now all of a sudden, we're, like, bumping into people from high school and college and stuff all the time, and just. And seeing that contrast, and it's been really fascinating because it's given us that. That sort of gratitude to realize how far we've come.

Yeah, no, it's totally gratitude, and I think it's that grounding, like you said, and that's something that I know. That's my 2019. I'm working more on grounding myself, not.

You're grounded.

Yeah, pretty damn grounded right now. I don't know. I could feel some of your room.

You're grounded.

But, yeah, no, I've done a lot of stuff. You know, like, the ayahuasca thing was one that. It was a little bit more spacey feeling rather than grounding feeling. So it's. I think this year, that's definitely my focus is to get more to my roots, Figure out.

Roots.

We'll probably get sued now.

Yeah, well, that's why I was trying to do random other sounds.

Oh, yeah. It's not the song they would listen to. Be like, no, he doesn't even have a melody right there.

He's.

He screwed that off.

All right.

Anyway, we gotta jump off. We should do another one of these duets. Let's go. Let's record another one.

You know what? They just make me feel better, I think.

Let's do another one.

When?

Fucking an hour from now?

We'll see.

All right. There may be a round two of this duet coming out soon. There may not be. We'll see.

All righty. Thank you for listening.

See ya.