Therapy Sessions 👥 Getting Real On What We Struggle With

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

We are back.

We're back.

We're back.

And who's our guest today, Joe?

Me.

You're our guest.

And you and me.

Yeah. We don't have a guest today, you and I.

It's just you and I, old man.

Today's gonna be an interesting episode because we're just gonna kind of talk about 2018 a little bit, and we're gonna talk about some good shit that happened and some bad shit that happened and the lessons we learned from it.

It's called real talk.

Real talk.

None of this fake social media posting talk or me, me, me, ego, me, me, me, success talk. Maybe some of that, though.

Maybe some of that.

We need a balance, right? It's all about balance.

It's all about balance. We need to stroke our ego, but also be a little bit vulnerable.

Okay.

Right. Isn't that what we're talking about here?

Yeah, no, that is. That's definitely at the core of what this conversation is going to be. And we've got a lot of good feedback lately in that we. A lot of folks love these types of episodes where it's just the two of us talking about kind of the behind the scenes of not only this show, but not only our business, but our lives.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that's kind of one of the things we've heard the most lately is from the people who listen to a lot of our shows. They flat out told us they wish we did more episodes without guests, where we just kind of talk about the behind the scenes of our business, kind of stuff that we're up to in life. They want to get to know us more. So today we're going to. It's going to tie into business a little bit, but we're really going to talk about.

Struggles that we've had this year, but we're also going to talk about the good and the positive that have come from these various struggles. Because 2018, I'm not going to lie, it's been a rough year.

So we're going to kind of dive in on that a little bit.

Yeah, I don't even know where to start with that stuff, man. So something that if you follow us on social media, mainly Facebook, Matt and I are pretty transparent. We'll call it in our lives and business as much as we can be Transparent slash. It's kind of what's needed, but I don't know, it's. We don't have this barrier, this filter that we feel like a lot of folks feel like they have to present in the public eye. I think I know a big change just in our podcast alone. If you've listened since day one, it's to be authentic and not to create a voice, a radio voice. Hey, you're listening to the Hustle food. No.

And we never went down that path of like, here's our 10 questions that we're gonna ask you.

We're not a frickin push button podcast. So I'm not. I'm just, I'm just gonna be fucking real here. Yeah, Like I. We're gonna be us and this is what you're always gonna get. And in this episode specifically, I feel like, you know, Matt and I were talking like, what should we, what should we talk about? I'm like, well, it's a day after probably one of the hardest days I've ever had to experience and losing my, one of my best, best friends from childhood who was like a brother, just like Matt's brother to me, a brother I never biologically had. And then that kind of triggered our talks of, okay, so like, what's all the underlying stuff? Matt's been through tragedy this year as well in his family.

I mean, all sorts of different things on my end in terms of I fostered a baby and she went back, but we had her for 15 months since 4 days old. So it's like a combo of that. And then Matt has been public about collapsing in the middle of a networking party with a lot of high network and well, networked people here, who's in La Jolla. And that was like a big freaking shock to you at your core. Like all this stuff has just happened. Well, actually just the four things I mentioned, that's within the last three months.

Yeah, that's been kind of like three months. Quarter three and quarter four of 2018 was kind of summed up by, you know, losing family members and deaths and health scares and all of this other crap. And we did want to have this podcast episode because.

We'Ve sort of made this conscious decision on social media that we actually tend to share our failures and the things that aren't going right more so than we share when things are going right. We almost use it more as like, let's be real, let's vent. And we've never really done that on the podcast. We've never really had an episode where we talk about the realities and the stresses and the anxieties and all the shit that goes on behind the scenes, both personally and financially and just our mental states. There's just such a rollercoaster ride that happens being entrepreneurs and so far from our experience, it happens at every level of success. We're sitting here and we have these anxieties and stresses when we're trying to figure out how to make $100 a week. And here we are making quite a bit more than that. A little bit more than that.

I hope so.

And we still have these stresses and anxieties and things that we beat ourselves up over. And.

We'Ve been at this now for 12 years. We've up leveled and up leveled and up leveled. But it seems like our anxieties and stresses and fears and all that stuff that goes with it are just on a grander scale as well.

Like, it's. I literally, as your Matt was just cycling through different hashtags because we just figured couple. This is related, I promise. But like, we figured out a couple shirt designs. We did a little poll on Facebook about which shirt designs you're going to start seeing for Hustle and Flowchart, the podcast. So we'll let you know when those are available. They are not yet at the time of this recording, but we were looking up like Funnel Hacker and Lewis Howells is school greatness. Lewis is a. A buddy of ours and we were looking through there and actually one of the memes I didn't even say to Matt, but it was something about, like, when it rains, it pours. And yes, it's tough, but guess what comes from rain? Growth. You know, and it basically said, hey, hang in there. Wait for the flowers.

Yeah.

And like, I don't know that that hits perfectly timely for me right now, where I'm feeling pretty raw from yesterday. And, you know, we've had our individual things where you've already cycled through your grief or bad time or whatever it might be, but it's so damn true. You have to be grateful. You don't have to be doing anything. But like, Matt and I were talking about how gratefulness, it's kind of tough to understand what being grateful is or grateful for a friend in your life or a house that you live in or whatever car that you own until it's taken away. And ideally now that everything has to be taken away from you. But to finding the appreciation of hard times, difficult times, and then figuring out what's the growth going back to that meme like what's the growth that comes up this situation? And like you were saying, Matt, at lunch right before this, it's figuring out, what am I grateful for in this situation, Even though it might be feeling like dog shit. I feel like I've been like, you know, beaten by a bat, or I can't sleep or can't think straight. But it's like, okay, well, maybe take a second to journal like you said, James Altitude. I think you said journals, like, all right, well, what are a handful of things that are just stressing me out or bringing me anxiety?

Why? But also figure out, okay, why am I grateful for this thing that's happening in my life? Why is that even coming up? And what can I make of this situation to become a better person? Yeah, I mean, ideally and whatever else.

I've always hated the advice of, like, you know, when you come from a place of gratitude, like, all these good things happened. And like, I've always kind of thought, like, oh, that's just kind of bs, like, woo woo junk. Like, I used to, you know, hear guys like Lewis Howes and a lot of the motivational speaker types talk about, like, gratitude, gratitude, gratitude. Focus on gratitude. It'll like, change your life. And it never really clicked. And I always thought, man, that's just junk advice that everybody throws around. But I feel like 2018 is where it really clicked for me was there was a lot of negative things that happened. You know, I had a health scare where I sort of, like, collapsed at a party due to anxiety and overworking myself. And, you know, I had to reframe it and think, okay, what lessons are learned here? And how can I be grateful that this thing happened to me? You know, I lost a close family member earlier this year and same thing, I had to figure out how to spin it and think of the things that I was grateful for, for having that family member in my life for as long as I did and spinning those stories to a place of gratitude. It does help with the grief and the stress and the anxiety and all those other sort of quote unquote, negative emotions that come with it.

Yeah.

So this year has been a lot of that. But also it's. For me personally, I was telling Matt, but, like, a common trend that I feel like has come up, at least that I've been aware of, is simple and fun. Just have. Have fun in anything you're doing in life. Business definitely should, because it can be a source of great anxiety and stress that can be debilitating to your health and mental state. That reflects to your family and everybody around you. Like, it could potentially go bad if you let it. And a lot of people just aren't aware. And I feel like until. Until you're shocked and you choose to be aware, then you can make change. But I mean, a lot of people, everybody experiences death of some sort or some tragic event. It just. You never know when it's going to happen really. But a lot of people will choose to distract themselves or think kind of not make it real and almost ignore the fact that maybe that thing happened and they just kind of stick to that path. Or maybe you slowly start to see all your friends are going away because you're kind of a douchebag or something. You probably want to look at yourself and be like, oh, huh, got it. All those times when they called me a douchebag, maybe that was real. It's an extreme example. Hopefully you're not like that. But it's like a self aware. It's choosing to be aware of what the heck is going on and then making changes where you see you can make change for the better.

Yeah.

And it's tough, man. It's tough to do. You have to. At least me, I have to almost force myself to do that. And it's. Lately it's been journaling a lot of journaling to wash my brain. Like I did that immediately yesterday when I got the news and.

I didn't know what the heck to do, but I was like, you know what I'm gonna write.

Yeah.

And see what flows out. And then good stuff flowed out.

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely something that I've been really big on for several years now. I was actually just showing Joe my journal a few minutes ago. It goes all the way back to 2014 is when I really kind of got into it at any sort of consistent level. But the journaling thing is just so, so helpful for me because, you know, it helps me sleep better at night because if I, if I have a bunch of stuff circling, writing it down sort of clears my brain and lets me kind of wind down for the night.

Yeah. You know, we use a day one journal, by the way. We, Matt and I have talked about this and like handwriting, we've tried it all. Sometimes it works. But it's like, I feel like the more consistent journal that's worked for both of us is day one.

Yeah. Which is a digital journal. You can actually journal from your phone, an iPad, a computer. You know, it's like a cloud based journal.

But.

A lot of my best ideas for business Come out. When I sit down to journal about something completely different, I'll sit down to journal about some stress that I'm having right now. And what flows out of me is, okay, here's why you're stressing. Here's what you should do to stop stressing. Oh, by the way, here's another idea that's been sitting in your subconscious. That's now time to come out. And then I start journaling about new business ideas and ideas and tactics we can try and new ways to get traffic and new income streams. And all of a sudden, next thing I know, like, I've just opened these floodgates of ideas for our business. And I sat down to journal because I was anxious about a bill that I have coming up or something.

Totally. No, that's how it works. That's how it happened to me yesterday. Journaling about my buddy who at the time was dying and then ended up. But it was journaling about, like, prompted by him. But then it had me. I chose to self reflect on myself if I were in his shoes, you know, and. And then that. I wasn't talking about him necessarily. That was like. Then it turned into me. What am I actually feeling? What are some gaps that I might be overlooking in my life that I'm just going on. On autopilot?

Yeah.

I think autopilot is something. It could be great for some things, but if you're not aware of what you're doing and you're just repeating this pattern, it could be in business doing something that's just not effective, like, with your time. Because we all do that in some way. I know I'm definitely guilty of that. I'll be the first to admit, like, if that autopilot plays at all times and you're not just checking in every now and then. Journaling is a great way. Meditation is cool. But, you know, a lot of meditations are just like, don't think of anything or just repeat this mantra. And like, that's cool. I do that too. But journaling is. When you know that stuff just. It's like an onion. You're, like, uncovering all these different layers.

Yeah.

And I wanted to touch on a little, you know, something I've been. So the simple and easy thing we mentioned on another podcast, like, we had multiple friends. Darren Hardy and that mastermind the other day told us, like, that's kind of. His mantra is don't build a big, big, big company just to build a company. You know, do it if you want, but keep it simple and easy. Like you will kill yourself if you don't. And, you know, I've experienced that on a minute scale where you get that feeling. At least I do. I get the feeling in my chest or tightens a little bit. If something feels like it's like you're meeting it with resistance.

Yeah.

You're not in that flow where it's fun, it's simple. And to reference another podcast is Dan Cashel. He asked us literally on the air, or he challenged us. I don't know if it's challenge or not, but assigned us to three questions. Answer these three questions. And I did. And that's what it, like, uncovered so much more. Cool stuff.

Yeah. I mean, I think what we should do is kind of shift into, like, you know, here's some of the lessons we learned. Like, here's some of the knowledge we gained. And I think let's start right there with, like, the Dan Kishel thing.

Right.

Let's talk about those three questions. Kind of recap what they were actually think it was. What do you want? Who are you? What do you stand for? In that order.

Yeah, what do I want? Like, what do I really want? And then it goes into who am I? No labels or titles. Not the human doing, but the human being. And then the last question is, what do I stand for? Your core values and those things. I mean, that opened a ton for me. And really at the core of everything, it was all about having fun, giving back. Okay, so I'll just read my answers. And this is like. This is just a synopsis, like, a sentence or two of each one. Like, I kept it concise on purpose, but if you look at my, like, my journal entry, it freaking goes. Pages.

Yeah.

But I sourced, like, all right, what's a sentence or two that sums up this whole thing.

Yeah.

And so what do I want? Like, what do I really want? I answered, I want to have a fun time with people that enjoy new experiences that help us all grow while keeping it in flow and simple.

And then who am I? So not labels. I basically said so when I'm a human being, I'm someone who really thinks about and wants to connect with others, not just people. I can kind of sense and feel, innovate ways to enjoy experiences with others that I feel like it's best for all. So, like, collective. So it's a mix of being empathetic, being in flow, and having fun with those. And then what I stand for is basically, I stand for growth, for a bigger good with commitment from those involved. So I'm Big on people, teams and just going for it. Going for something fun and big.

Yeah. I haven't gotten around to diving deep and answering those questions yet, but once I do, I will share them on a future episode.

Yeah, I just thought they were cool. And they seem so simple.

Yeah.

But the reason why I didn't, because we even chatted about this. Really. They kind of seem like simple or similar. I'm like, they are. But actually. And that's why I challenged myself. I'm like, okay, so how are these different? And that's why I just, like, free flowed with it. And then I was like, oh, yeah, they're similar, but different.

Yeah.

But totally powerful. And Dan, I shared them with him and he actually was like, dude, these are really cool.

Yeah.

Insightful.

It's interesting because we've done the what do you want? Exercise over and over and over and over again throughout the years in different formats and different forms. And one form, we've been screaming at each other and we'll go there. But, you know, the whole what do you want? Thing is something that's. That's come up a lot. And you know what's funny? The answer is never money.

No. God, no.

And the answer is very rarely stuff it's more about. You always find that it tends to be like some sort of state of being. Right. It's happy, it's secure, it's free. It's, you know, like, independent. It's usually a state of being. And never anything physical. Never.

You know, we had this talk about, you know, transition to this. This might be a little, like, kind of above your normal thinking brain when you're listening. Because it's not something I don't think most people talk about or totally think about, but is separating yourself from, like, the things around you or being attached to. Maybe it's an outcome, you know, but something that you have, like these expectations so bent. Like. And this is definitely a learning point for me this year.

Yeah.

Is having all these set expectations like this go your business or this cool vacation you're going to go on, or in my case, having my buddy live for longer. Like, all these expectations are these things that you want to try really hard at. And then you're like, no.

Usually those things, that's not the thing that makes you happy. What makes you happy is what's in you. It's your being. It's that state of being once you understand what your state of being is. But yeah, your house isn't like, if it burnt down tomorrow, it'd be freaking Horrible. And unfortunately, it happened to a lot of people in California this year. But.

Ideally, if you lived like you're going to, you're going to rebuild, you're going to find a home that's not your life. It sucks, but there's always some growth. Something's going to happen from this.

Yeah.

I mean, if you choose it to be, obviously, you can choose not to as well.

Yeah. I mean, that whole concept of, you know, separating your identity with your possessions and with your belief system, that's like a whole potentially own podcast rabbit hole that we can go down. But, you know, when. When you think about it, like, a lot of people's sort of arguments in the world are because their. Their identity is so closely tied to their beliefs and their identity is so closely tied to their. And those two things form your identity. And studies have shown that people get that same sort of fight or flight mechanism when their identity is under attack. In the same way that when your body physically is under attack, you have that fight or flight response when you feel like someone is attacking who you are, your identity, you are so willing to fight over that. Most people are willing to either fight or say, I'm not talking to you, and flee. Right. That. That phys. And. And people will actually hold their identity above their physical presence.

Yeah. Right.

Like. Like when you go into, like, fight or flight mode, some people are literally willing to throw punches and fight for their beliefs. Think religion, think politics, think, you know.

They'Ll jump in front of someone if they're, you know, standing up and take a bullet for someone. I mean, they'll.

People are willing to sacrifice their body and even their life to hold on to their identity and their beliefs. And when I say beliefs, I'm, you know, the, the obvious ones that come to mind are political beliefs and religious beliefs. Like, almost all wars are started due to political or religious beliefs, right?

Yeah. But it's. It's all the way down to, you know, your favorite NFL team.

Yeah.

Football team, baseball team. Like, you know, so why are you so attached to this outcome of whatever game? Like Matt and I, when we were Charger fans when they were in San Diego, We're a little butthurt. Dean Spanis, if you're listening, you're a dick.

Hey, hey. It's not part of your identity anymore.

I let that go. You need the backstory in the San Diego Chargers. Just Google it. But no, like, because Matt and I have debated about this, we're like, why are we so attached? Because we used to be super attached to the Outcome of.

Yeah, it was like, if a charge. If the Chargers last, it would kind of piss us off for the day, which is, like, set the tone for the day.

Literally. We'd be depressed. Yeah. And you, I think, took it a little harder than me, because I remember you. And just like. I mean, we both took it hard in our own way. So I'm like. But we started, like, what? Just the other day, we were sitting in your backyard. We're like, why. Why are we so attached? Or why were we.

We were kind of talking about how it's kind of nice to not even have a football team anymore because it's like, it freed up our weekends. It freed up mental space that could be taken up by other things. It's. You know, there's. There's actually a lot of benefits and things that, in retrospect, we're like, it's probably good we don't have that football team anymore.

All right, Dean. Spanish. Thank you for that.

No, fuck him.

Chew Tuck.

But, you know, like, we used to, like, being Charger fans was part of our identity, right? Like, if somebody was to ask, like, who are we? And we got into a long discussion with them, part of our identity would flow out that, like, oh, we're really big football fans, and we. Like the Chargers, you know, that was part of our identity. And when the Chargers lost, you know, our identity took a hit as if, like, we were under attack or something. And it's funny when you think about it, because most of the guys on a sports team like that probably aren't even from the city that they're playing on, so they're not even, like, locals that, like, grew up in your hometown.

You don't know them.

You don't know them. Most times. You don't know, like, any of them personally. It's run. It's essentially a giant corporation who you're just paying money to, like, wear their brand and to sit around and watch them on TV and to pay, you know, beer companies to sponsor it.

Amount for a Coors.

Like, it's just. It's so interesting when you really sort of back it out and look at, like, what organized sports are. And I'm not saying I'm against organized sports.

We're gonna still have teams. We're in love sports.

Yeah, we love. We love, like, the competitiveness and seeing good games, but we're also no longer ever tied to any sort of outcome of a game. Like, even if a team we're rooting for loses, we're just like, yeah, that's a bummer. And we laugh about it and want and move on.

Well, dude, that is actually. And this is very weird, but, like, all this stuff.

This is.

This is. These are the kind of conversations that Matt and I have often. Very often. And they may not seem completely related to, like, oh, we're launching this new product or whatever marketing campaign. But it's like every one of these conversations.

Human nature.

Yeah.

Understanding human nature is going to. Is going to help you understand business and marketing and selling. If you understand why the human brain works the way it works, you can find loopholes to sort of, you know, get yourself on the mind of others.

And that's the thing. Yeah. And you have to get your mind straight. So it's. If you can. Yeah. Us having these conversations about sports teams and religion and, you know, politics, which, you know, we're just like. We kind of look at human nature, behavior, psychology. You're just like, okay, why, like, question. Why? Why am I so, like, even if you are, like, total happy about your sports team or what, whatever you're doing or anything that you're maybe like, analyze. Do a little audit on yourself and it could be a good thing. There's nothing bad about this. Be like, why am I so attached to this thing or this outcome? Why do I want this so much that you spend money, time and energy and literally physical health in sports.

It's just so bizarre, too, because it's not like we get anything out of it. Like, if the Chargers won a Super bowl, how does that change our life?

We. We'd be happy for, like, probably a month, maybe not even that long, like a week. And then probably kind of fall out of our memory.

There's no, like, monetary gain. There's like, maybe a little bit of like a. A happy adrenaline endorphin rush that happens. And that's like, our only gain, really. And then it's kind of gone, you know, and we put so much mental energy into something where the payoff is pretty freaking relatively low.

Yeah. I mean, it's. And let's be honest, us as entrepreneurs are. We're just, like, exposed to so many stressors that a lot of folks, even in day jobs, I mean, there's potential for a lot of stressors. But I feel like when you're in a job, usually you feel more protected, but. Yeah, no, it's so you can apply it everywhere. It's just how you choose to, like, shine your spotlight, you know, wherever you want to go. Apply that and learn from it. Be aware. It's like you really have to audit yourself. And it's not one of those one and done things. Like, it's like you have to constantly wash your brain, check in with yourself.

You have to brainwash yourself.

Wash my brain?

Oh, wash your brain. That's totally different than brainwashing.

Different order.

And I think another thing that would help. We brought this on the podcast, but I've told Matt there's some post in Internet marketing Super Friends group by Mike Hill the other wee month or so, and we've talked about the Colby assessment, and that was by Tim Francis, great assistant. We've had him on the show and we. It's basically personality. It's not personality test.

Well, yeah, Tim Francis didn't make the Colby, just to be clear.

No, yeah, sorry. Yeah, he just. He's one of the.

He's like a consultant, one of the.

Registered guys, certified partners there. And. But it's essentially a measure of your state of being in flow, like without any outside influences to make you into a different person than you should be or are. It's your natural state when you're in action. This is how you act.

I dug into my report, which is very detailed, and it gives you the do's and don'ts and all that stuff of each one of your four, four scores that you receive. But for me, like, I'm a-2-394- so that's like two on the fact finder, which is very low. But that means I just want it. I want to. I want like quick summaries. Yeah. Give me the high level enough to make a decision. Boom. Next one's fact finder. I'm pretty low on that, so sorry, it's follow through. So that means I just don't like long procedure lists. I don't like a very too structured of a place. I want to have some structure, but be able to kind of bend and weave, shortcut and innovate. That's me. And then the nine is quick start. That just means I'm quick to start things, you know, a new idea that's constantly innovation and then four is more just using my hands, tools and all that. That's not as applicable here. But for me, understanding my score and then reading the do's and don'ts for each one, I was able to give myself personal relief and freedom from trying to be like a person that I am not really innately, Matt, being like super structured, trying to like, why am I not as systemized as Matt? Like, that was honestly like something that's this, like it's been this loop. Because, like, if you look at Matt's just desktop on his computer compared to mine, Lightyear is different. You have like two things. I have about 500 things.

Yeah.

And that covers two monitors and probably five others. If I strung it all.

But I could find anything. I never need, typically. But I just like, why the hell am I not so structured? Why am I not so clean? But literally in that test.

It'S like, no, don't be structured. It literally said, don't be overly structured, don't be overly scheduled or procedure break shit. It was like, do it. Yeah. I'm like, oh, okay. That's not a wrong thing.

Yeah, no, you gotta. You gotta do what works for you. And, you know, I've had a lot of insecurities around the way I am versus the way other people around me are as well. You know, going back to the colby, I'm an 87-742-SO-SO-ROstate almost exact opposite of Joe, where that's what's so cool about high fact finder, high follow through, low quick start, low implementer. And so, you know, we really sort of team up. But I, I constantly have these insecurities about, like, you know, why do other people just kind of feel like they should just jump into stuff and it works out for them where I feel like I really need to do a lot of deep research before jumping in. And I realize it's just kind of two different ways of going about things and neither one of them is wrong. And, you know, sometimes my way works for me and sometimes my way doesn't. I overanalyze things and miss opportunities. But same with the really high quickstart type people, they may get in over their heads with too many things.

No, they never have.

So there's obviously pros and cons to both styles, which is why Joe and I make great partners. But I have those same sort of insecurities of like, why does my brain work this way? Why can't my brain work this way?

Well, here's a takeaway as well, because this is so powerful to not only understand yourself, but I think.

Allows you to interact with people better. So with Matt and I, if we, we have a long history, so we kind of knew each other prior to a test, but I'm just like, you know, after you understand yourself. And I'm not going to say you go over and analyze people as you're talking to them now, but you can kind of more or less see where they would be on the spectrum of those four categories. And it'd be just Be really interesting if everyone kind of knew just at that level about themselves and, like, how much better and helpful conversations and interactions would be. I mean, because it really exposes who you are and, you know, if you don't communicate properly with someone who thinks completely different. And it's not a bad thing. It's like a friendship could be destroyed potentially because of the way you approach a situation or a communication. But it's like, A, you have to understand yourself, and then, B, you have to apply that to your scenarios around you.

It's just tricky because I know, like, Matt and I have communicated not perfectly with each other and that has led to more.

Shut up, anxious. That's not true at all. Just shut up.

Throwing stuff at you like a hissy fit. Yeah, no, but. And understand. Well, the disc is another good one. Disc.

Yeah.

It's like, do that for free at Tony Robbins site somewhere.

I feel like that one tends to tell you more whether you're, like, introverted, extroverted, like more of a people person. Keep to yourself. That one, I feel like, is more personality traits.

Yes.

Where I feel like Colby is more like your being your, like, zone of genius, like, where you should be operating.

And that's what I felt. The biggest reliefs personally and freedoms that came from the Colby. Even though it's less of a breakdown, I feel like you could apply. I could apply it in a lot of cool ways.

Well, I feel like if you look at the disc now and you were to do a disc assessment three years from now, you could potentially get dramatically different results based on, like, personal development work and, you know, things that you do over the years. If you look at your Colby score now and you look at your Colby score score three years from now, in all likelihood, you're probably going to score the same damn score. It's kind of like those traits that don't really change. This is just how you're wired where personality. I feel like personality is more of a fluid thing. Like, as. As I get to, you know, I. I always talk and you and I always joke about how, like, I'm the introvert, you're the extrovert. But anybody who's medicine in person wouldn't. Wouldn't go like, oh, yeah, you're clearly the introvert and Joe's clearly extrovert. Like, we've just gotten really comfortable in those scenarios. And so I think your personality sort of shifts and ebbs and flows and moves and, you know, I think my personality is going to be different when I'm hungry versus when I'M full. My personality is going to be different. You know, when I got a lot of sleep last night versus very little sleep. My personality is going to be different if I have various substances in my body. Like, if we're drinking or doing other things. Right. Like, my personality is going to be constantly ebbing and flowing. And the personality you get today may not be the same personality you get out of me tomorrow. And so the personality trait thing, I kind of look at those assessments with a little more of a grain of salt. The Colby one. I look at that and go, this is kind of how I'm wired. This is, like, this is probably how I'm always going to be. Let's accept it and figure out how to leverage it to the best possible. You know, how to leverage this the best way I can. And family and business and everywhere else.

Yeah. And I think that's a good starting point for a lot of folks. I mean, it's. I don't know. I've been finding myself describing this to a lot of other people now in my circles, just friends and family. And it's interesting because people can kind of guess more or less where they're at. Obviously, it might not be accurate, totally. Because the Colby's very dialed in, but I don't know, it's just. It's fascinated me. But the biggest thing that I figured out out of all this, my biggest takeaway, is that it has provided me freedom in specifically, any anxieties that I personally hold as, like, expectations to others. You know, for myself, like, I would beat myself up over a lot of these things that it says you shouldn't be doing those things. I'm like, yes, that's a good thing, you know? And this, like. Like, literally, it told me to break things.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh, wow, cool. Like, it's totally, like, it just gives you the ability to live who you are. And, like, unapologetically, too, is a biggie. Like, for me is. It was like, don't justify anything. It was just like, speak who you are, period.

Yeah.

So literally, I've started because I just, like, naturally have this tendency of fricking people pleaser. Naturally, that's who I am. But it's like, without. But now I know. I'm like, no, I shouldn't justify me being who I am. So, like, I'll catch myself now, and I'll literally, like, delete, like, an extra sentence in an email.

Yeah.

Like, I'll be like, oh, I'm sorry I didn't check my Facebook messages in Three days. I just suck at Facebook message. Like, I just started selling, like, I don't give a shit. Like, hey, I'm here, you know, here's your answer, or whatever it is, you know? Yeah, it's just little things that just compound into big feelings that could freaking have you pass out in the middle of a mastermind. Yeah, like you.

Yeah, no, that was. That was gnarly. That was a big buildup of a lot of things. We had. We had some promos that we were doing that, you know, some things weren't going the way we wanted on them. We had a team member that we were sort of in the process of parting ways with that, you know, we really liked and really, really wanted on our team, but, you know, for circumstances that were kind of out of our control, had to split ways with that team member. And, you know, we were going to. Going to events, we were working late every night, and it was just like, this build up of all of this stuff going on in my head, and then we're at this networking event, and my natural tendency is on the more introverted side where a lot of that kind of stuff can kind of overwhelm me, especially if there's a lot of people I don't know at the event.

I think that's the biggie for you.

And so, like, all of that just kind of compounded, and I literally just kind of collapsed. And it just. That. That thing just kind of made me, like, reassess. Like, why am I working so hard? Like, is it. Is it really that important that I, you know, put in these extra hours to potentially make a little bit more money and lose my health in the process? Is it really worth it? Right. And so that was kind of the. The big realization is, like, you've got to find this balance. Like, it's not all about work, work, work. Make money, make money, make money. You like money doesn't. Ask Steve Jobs. Money doesn't do for you when your health goes to crap.

Right? Yeah.

You know, the money couldn't save a life when you're about to. When certain things happen. Right. So, you know, it's. It's just a big perspective shift that I think has happened for both of us in 2018 is this perspective shift of, you know, we were. We always kind of sold ourselves off as, like, we hustle all the time, we work really hard, but we're doing it to, you know, to support our family and to buy the things we want and to do all that. But at the end of the day, you know, that's.

What'S more important is your health and being there for your family and being there with your family and not spending all these hours working and, you know, pursuing the dollar because, you know, they need you around more than they need the money around.

Yeah, man.

We're definitely not the Gary Vaynerchuk's of the world. And big props to him, he's doing great. I got sucked into one of his garage sale shows the other night on YouTube and I thought it was amazing, but I ain't gonna go do that and travel the world every day like Casey Neistead or something where he even says in his videos all the time he misses his family. And, like, I don't have a desire to do that. I want to be with my family and friends.

And so from this point on, the podcast is now the chill and Flowchart podcast.

I'm cool with that. Turned into a lot more chill than, you know.

Can you hand me that journal that's right behind you there?

Which one?

Yeah.

All right.

I actually. A few days ago, I was journaling and I was. I wrote like my. Sort of like, these are eight big lessons that I learned for 2018. Let's work through there's. I actually have 10 now, but two of them I haven't written down.

So the unknowns.

The unknowns. Let me see if I can find my rules again. And let's see if I could read my chicken scratch, because this is actually.

Handwritten notebook.

Those were sound. Sound effect on the computer. I was. No, I'm just kidding.

I put little arrows.

Hopefully you guys are digging this episode. It's slightly different than the norms.

Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit rambly and a little ranting and kind of just. It's wisdom, but hopefully there's some little gold nuggets here. So I started writing this journal entry because I wanted to write a blog post either beginning of next year or later this year. It's kind of getting a little late in the year for this year, but I wanted to write a blog post about, like, these are my biggest sort of personal lessons. They're not all business lessons. They're kind of business and personal. So number one, should I just read each one and then we'll discuss for a sec?

Yes.

All right, so. And you may not have the same rules. You may be like, rule number four is bullshit. I disagree.

Well, that's why we'll discuss.

So rule number one, I put. All right. Put your problems and struggles out into the world. People can't Help, and you won't know who's able to help if no one knows that there's a problem. That was something that I kind of learned just through social media, was when I started having struggles with, like, you know, working too much and anxiety and, you know, various things that have popped up. I've actually been posting about those struggles on Facebook, and that's the time when I start getting all sorts of love and comments and people PMing me saying, hey, you should talk to. So and so they went through something similar or, hey, I want to jump on a call with you and talk about this, because I went through something similar, and all of a sudden this, like, support network that I didn't even know existed started to pop up and reach out and want to help. And, And. And. And all of this stuff just kind of came to the surface for me, and it helped me build stronger bonds with people that I wasn't super bonded with before, and it helped me make more connections. And also by sharing the struggles, I feel like it's helped our community bond with us a little more as well. Right. Like, the people that are following our podcast and follow our business and who think like, oh, man, these guys must be really successful when they see stuff like that. They go, oh, they're just like me. They. They run into this kind of crap in their lives, too. That. That really, really sucks. And. And, you know, sidetracks them. And so I've made it sort of a policy to not only share successes, but share struggles, and oftentimes share struggles even more often.

It feels freeing. I know for me, it's like when I can get something off my chest, if I feel like it's something I want to declare publicly. You very, very surprised when you see your, you know, your text are starting to blow up and your. Your PM box and Facebook wherever. Yeah. You quickly realize how much support's around you, and it's usually a lot of people you would not expect or you might have forgot about.

And I feel like so many people just kind of.

They.

They live in silent despair. Right? Like, they, like, they have struggles. They run the worst. They run into business issues. They run into obstacles that they don't know how to overcome, but they bottle them up. They don't share them. They don't tell anybody else. So nobody knows that there's a struggle going on. Nobody knows that they're having issues and they're never getting connected with the right people that can potentially help them because they just bottle it up and never tell anybody. There's A problem.

I mean, that sums up my buddy Pete.

Yeah.

In a nutshell. That. Yeah, that killed him.

You'll never know who's there to support you if you never let anybody else know that you have struggles that need support.

Yeah. I would challenge you listening to think about something that you might be struggling with. That maybe you're not specifically asking for help, but you're just being honest. And you know, it's. Maybe it's. I would choose something that you feel like you've had the urge to share and put out there. Don't feel like you just have to like find something. But if you feel like you've had like this urge. I know when I get those urges, there's a reason why you have that urge. Like, so do something about it. Maybe journal first and see if you would like to share that or some modified version of that.

Almost any struggle that I've shared on social media came from something I posted in my journal first.

Yeah, I would definitely do that prior to probably just sharing publicly in the first draft.

Yeah.

All right, go ahead. I agree with, number one, if you haven't noticed, it's kind of what we're doing on this podcast.

Number two, focusing on larger scale issues makes little business issues feel less significant. Our hurdles are small compared to the problems that plague the world as a whole.

Agreed.

Yeah.

I mean, that's kind of self explanatory. I mean, but people don't think about it.

It's sort of a long way of saying put things into perspective when you're sitting there, man. Our sales this week have been really, really bad compared to last week. Well, when you kind of put it into perspective of like some of the other struggles that are going on around the world, it makes our problems in our business feel small. But also thinking of how, how we can tackle bigger problems in the world give you a driver to focus on the small problems to create income to tackle the bigger problems. Right. So if I'm sitting here focused, like, think of like a Bill Gates, you know, he wants to eradicate malaria or polio or one of those. He wants to eradicate maybe polio.

We'll say both. I know the Rotary Club goes for polio.

Yeah. So he wants to, he's basically trying to eradicate diseases in the world knowing that that's like his bigger picture goal. It makes the small business things kind of, you know, they're necessary because he's got to create the income to, to solve these bigger goals. But, you know, nothing is as big of a struggle as like ending disease.

Well, that's the thing. Yeah. And if you. If you think about that, or Elon, his big goal is to go to Mars. He wants to live there in his lifetime. So. Okay, so just imagine what kind of work goes into that, what kind of thinking, what kind of studying on his part, his team's part, systems, money, government regulations, like all this crazy crap that he has to go through. And because that's his mission. And then we look at our own. You're like, oh, okay, well, I'm not saying this is like ours, but just at a very basic level, when you're having a business, you want to make sure you have a roof over your head, that money keeps going in where you could pay yourself and also your team. Maybe you just have a team of one assistant in yourself, in a house. Cool. Think about that perspective right there. It could be a lot more difficult and complicated and.

Yeah. Well, I just think about when simple. When we worked at the shutter company, like, the rent There was like $25,000 a month. Our payroll, I think, was like 13 grand a week to pay payroll. Our cost of goods sold, you know, on our. On the shutters, we sold. I don't remember exact pricing, but it cost us like 15 bucks to make a shutter. And we sold it for like 17. You know, profit margins were super thin. Overheads were super high. If we weren't making a hundred thousand dollars in a month, then the company was struggling. If we were making 200,000amonth, we were barely above break even. Like, when we have these Internet businesses where our overhead is three grand a month and anything beyond that starts to get into profit, we have very little to complain about, which.

That's a pretty accurate number, I think, for us, it's not maybe a little bit more, but it's kind of crazy. Yeah, it's.

It's.

You gotta put. Yeah, you don't have to do anything but just put that shit in perspective, man, because that will quickly ease your brain.

Yeah.

And then. And then. And this is the kind of another takeaway Matt and I have had. Pick a couple of these levers or these rocks that you can personally focus on and figure out what are the priorities. To just do what's good for you. Not feeling like you have to do 30 different things every single day to make your business work. Because I'm called B.S. all over that.

Yeah. All right.

Number three.

Number three. And this is one where you may not agree with me, because I don't expect everybody to agree with this one. So learn a Lot about a lot and try to connect the dots to solve bigger problems. Seemingly non connected things can be combined to solve bigger problems.

Should I go first or should you?

Well, basically, so just kind of my commentary on it is like I tend to not study business very much anymore. I tend to study psychology, I tend to study human behavior. I tend to study.

Some economics type stuff. I tend to study.

You know, a lot of technical type topics. And then I look at all these types of things and I try to connect the dots into how I can apply these into business, how can these help grow our business? You know, you look at someone like Elon Musk, he's the perfect example of a polymath. He is, he is somebody who studied rocketry. He also knows how to code. He also studies business. He also studies, you know, you name it, the list goes on and on and on of all the various skill sets that he's sort of tried to master and then tied them all together to create what he's created.

And so I really, I'm somebody who, I like to learn a lot about a lot of subjects. I like to go wide and not deep. And I know that's not always common wisdom and I know not a lot of people may not agree with this one, but the way my brain works is I need to know a lot about a lot and then I connect dots.

Is that like, that's just a drive in you? Right? Yeah. So I would agree with that. We just learn in different ways. I know that's a fact for you and I. We both appreciate podcasts, but you devour podcasts where I don't, I just, I don't do that. I have specific areas but like for my personality, going back to that, I like the summaries. Like I literally find most of the books on my shelf. I'll get like halfway and then I just start to lose interest and stop reading. And it's like, it's that follow through, it's that very structured. I have to read this long book that's 300 pages or something. Even though some people can whip it out in like a day or two. I can't do that. But that was actually Tim Francis, if you remember, he said you should go to flashbook summaries and get an account, which I have an account and I tend to forget that it's there. But I really. Those are great because it's like 20 minutes. I can either read or I can listen. They have two options for books from all sorts of subjects. And for a while I was On a stretch where I was doing one a day, I'm like, dude, that's like literally a book a day. There's hundreds on there. And so for me, it's more that I prefer that kind of consumption.

I mean, I can see the counter argument of going really, really, really deep and being a specialist. Right. Like, there's a lot of people out there that are listening. They're like, you know what? I'm a Facebook ads agency. I am just gonna go as deep as humanly possible into understanding Facebook ads and become the world's best at it. That's. I mean, and I. And I think there is some pros to that. I mean, enjoy being broke the rest of your life, but there are some benefits to doing that.

Well, that's the thing is like, Facebook ads can completely change. Slash completely get. Just go away.

Yeah.

Or like where you maybe. Maybe it's restricted where you can't be a part of Facebook ads. And like, you have to spend X amount of money, whatever it might be, and then you're. You're literally shit out of luck.

Yeah.

And being a polymath, or at least someone who can kind of do a more or less general thing in a space, like, then you're setting yourself up for much better.

So, I mean, I don't have any data to back this up, but I have this sort of belief that the. The wealthiest people on earth are either a polymaths, they know a lot about a lot, or be entertainers. And if you can figure out how to be both, game on. Game on. Like, that's. Aren't entertainers.

They have to kind of be polymaths to be. I mean, they don't have to be, but it sure as helps.

Yeah.

They're witty, they're quick. They. They're. They obviously study a lot because you have to be knowledgeable on these things.

Yeah.

Might be making up some stats here and there, but at least you have to be smart enough to even. Like, why are even framing this in a joke? Because, you know, you understand what's happening in the world or science or whatever. Yeah.

Well, I mean, if you look at like, the wealthiest people, you, you, you know, you can look at guys like, like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates and, you know, I'll put Elon Musk and Richard Branson and some of the more popular famous billionaires up there. They all have this sort of polymath trait to them.

Warren Buffett, he reads eight hours a day.

Yeah. And probably all sorts of random, seemingly unrelated topics.

Right.

All of These guys, these. They really studied a wide breadth of material and then figured out how to, like, tie things together. I mean, Elon Musk is obviously the best example. Like, he's figuring out how to save the Earth while simultaneously getting off the Earth. And you have to think about, like, all of the various skills and like, technical things that he's had to learn. You know, he's an engineer, a rocket scientist, a coder, you know, as an energy specialist, a car manufacturing specialist. Like, so many different skill sets went into creating the companies that Elon Musk has under him.

Right.

And. And then you look beyond that, and then you get into entertainers. And when I say entertainers, I lump in. You know, athletes, singers, actors, all that kind of stuff. Because your next sort of wealthiest group of people are your LeBron James, your. You know, like, I think some of the highest paid athletes in the world are actually like European soccer players.

Yeah, there's.

Yeah, but you get the NBA players. Tom Brady's. The. Drew Brees is the. All the baseball players. I think some of the highest paid US Athletes are baseball players. You know, so you've got. And then movie stars. Obviously you've got guys like. Well, I guess Steven Spielberg's not really an entertainer, but he creates entertainment. So, like, the wealthiest people on Earth seem to fall into those two categories. Can you. Can you name anybody that's like ultra wealthy, that's a specialist in one thing? Like, I am a Facebook ads expert or I am a X expert. You just don't see it.

Yeah, you look at like Richard Branson has I don't know how many companies under his Virgin brand.

Yeah.

Elon's got like five or something simultaneously. Four maybe. And Warren Buffett owns how many companies? Yeah, and he's the. Or Bezos, again, has space. He has Amazon. He has all these other companies they acquire. Yeah, they test like freaking drone. Like, I don't know. It's just like all this stuff, man.

Well, if you study rich people and the wealthiest people on Earth and you just look at what they did to get there, most of them are either fall under that, like polymath. They know a lot about a lot, or they are entertainers. You don't see, like technicians or specialists or any of that type of person way up there. And I'm probably sure I can be proven wrong. I'm sure somebody will find dad and be like, this guy taught people how to do Facebook ads and he's a billionaire now. I'm sure there's someone. I'm probably not Facebook ads. But I'm sure there's some sort of specialty out there where it can be proved wrong.

But send Matt an email at, at joe@matt evergreenprofits.com and fight him.

Yeah, fight me over it. I'll be, I'll probably delete your email, but you can, you can fight, you can have a one way fight with me if you want. I don't care.

I was just wondering, I was like, I wonder for my, for my quick start brain, if I can be a polymath via Instagram memes. Yep, probably.

You'd definitely be a polymath from just like Blinkist and Flash Book Notes or whatever it's called.

Well, yeah, but I was just thinking like Instagram, like you go to different targets or different keywords and then you're like, all right, what are people hashtagging? Like you go, Nat Geo, I don't know. They're talking about like climate stuff. Okay, cool. I'm gonna learn a few things about climate in about five minutes.

I would question the accuracy of the information you get, but trusted sources, we'll.

Call it, not just randos.

But that was actually one of the insecurities that I used to beat myself up a lot about, is that I had constantly changing interests. Like, one month I'd be interested in this topic, the next month I'd be interested in this topic and I beat myself up about it, about why can't I just focus? And then Brad Costanzo introduced me to a book called Refuse to Choose. Can't remember the Authority, but it's all about embracing being a polymath. All about embracing trying to learn a lot about a lot. And that sort of freed up my mind a bit to go, okay, this is, this is actually a good thing. This is a good path to want to learn a lot about a lot. So now my goal is to learn a lot about a lot and also entertain people. And if I can do both those things, I'm probably setting myself on a good path. All right, so more fart jokes, Matt, More fart jokes. All right, so number four, truly open your mind and really try to understand how others think. Understanding and empathizing with others and alternative viewpoints can help destroy confirmation bias and give you a bigger pool of knowledge to base your own worldviews off of. It does come back to the beliefs and identity kind of thing as well. Right. They tie together very closely.

But like, let's say I have specific political beliefs that I've held onto for a long time and somebody challenged those political Beefs, I would get into debate mode with them. Now my default is when somebody has alternate points of view to my own. I don't get into debate mode. I get into, ooh, this is interesting. I want to hear it from your perspective. And I go to that mode first now because if I truly try to understand both perspectives, my perspective can change pretty quickly. I feel like my, my sort of perspective and my belief systems around politics and religion and like really sort of heavy issues are very fluid. I might have one belief today and next week you ask me again, I might have a different view on it based on new inputs and new arguments and new data that comes into view. I do not hold on to belief systems anymore in that way. And I think the reason for that is I've, I've shifted into this place of truly trying to put myself in other people's shoes and understand it from their perspective. Even if I don't initially agree. I want to hear them out and see if I can get my brain into that perspective for at least a minute.

I can relate to that because I feel like you and I both and something I talk about with my wife Heather all the time is like, feel like we could see both sides of the coin, both, all different perspectives and more or less like if they're pretty, you know, if they're not like completely horrible people or whatever. Like I can kind of see both sides, like politically, religious, whatever arguments people are putting out there into the world debates. Like I'd be like, eh, I mean, it's kind of hard to choose a winner, you know, but obviously there is for you. You should. Well, I mean, you don't really have to choose one or the other. Like, no one's demanding that. But I think it's healthy to see those perspectives. But it is also a challenge to you. I know this is something I've experienced is where it's tough to decide then because you do see both perspectives. But you know, in those scenarios where you are kind of required to make a decision in something, even if it's as dumb as like, hey, where are.

We going to go eat for lunch?

You know, like seeing the perspective that it's great, but also being kind of cool with the outcome, that's the whole going back to like, don't be attached super tight to those expectations of whatever this is, but still choose, choose whatever. Maybe gut reaction or whatever feels right to you at that time. Yeah, like just make the most educated, justified choice you can. And that's the best thing you can do. Yeah, that's actually a stoic thing I read yesterday as well from the Daily Stoic is like, if justified choices, I think you were calling basically are rationed choices, one or the other, essentially the best choice you could potentially make in that time is all you can do in life, period. And that's why it's like you can look back at your previous path and that's cool, but don't feel like, oh, beat yourself up for this reason choice that you made in the past that turned out to be not the right choice in the long run, that's like, you know, that can solve a lot of anxiousness.

Yeah, yeah.

So just making the right choices based off of those perceptions.

Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I just, I think it's good to just be open to all perspectives. Don't close your mind off. I think that's one of my biggest frustrations with other people is when you get into a conversation and find out pretty quickly that like, I'm not gonna change their mind. They're very close minded about this. And you know, I'm good at reading those signals and changing the subject, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna like base a friendship off of somebody like not wanting to see my points of views or anything like that. But it is one of my sort of pet peeves is when I kind of present alternative information to them and they're like instantly shut down, shutting it down. But all right, so number five, stop buying into societal norms as just how it works or this is just how it works. Question why things are how they are. The people that created our culture weren't necessarily smarter than us. It's just the current iteration, this think, this thinking leads to solving bigger problems. Like you hear it all the time when people are talking about things and they're like, yeah, that's just what works. You know, we just do it because, you know, that's, that's what how it's always been done. Right. And.

In, I think it's sort of like a, a big issue in society, quite honestly, is people just kind of looking at the status quo of how their community is run, how their government is run, how, you know, various gender roles are run. And I'm not going to get political, don't worry. But you know, people get so caught up in like, this is just how it, how it's always been. So this is how it should be. And that's what frustrates me is that thinking because the people who solve the biggest problems and, you know, rise the ranks are the ones Going, no, it doesn't actually have to be this way. We could do it a different way. I mean, go all the way back to Henry Ford. Right. If we gave the people what they wanted, they would, you know, they would have wanted faster horses or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

It, it's like if this is just the way it is, we ever, you know, we get everybody rides horses around town and that's the best way of, if nobody ever thought of, well, what's the next best way to get around? What's going to be the future way to get around? And started to change those norms. That's where real massive progress happens. And I do think a lot of people just get hung up on like, well, this is just the way it is.

Right? Yeah. If something doesn't feel, and this is my perception of this, because I know we've talked about this rule of yours.

I take it as like there's something that doesn't feel right or there's some regulation that's holding you back that you feel like is not like maybe it's antiquated. You know, at point, you know, legalization of marijuana. That's one. I was gonna talk about foster stuff too, but like how there's like regulations there that we don't agree with. But like my wife and I and Matt is going to support us as well in making this awareness where regulations get changed in counties around America because of the ways that foster care is run. It's not optimal for anybody. Like it's optimal for government agencies because they're getting funded by federal and basically getting a pat on the back and the county doing good work, doing a shitty job. A tangent, but I don't care because this lights me up. But my perception is whatever's man made can be man or woman, whatever, you know what I mean, can be constructed into something that works better. Yeah, like there are laws out there for a reason at one time when they were written. Hopefully it was a reason choice at that point. But I guarantee that law ain't gonna like your laws. Maybe those are pretty good, but those will stand the test of time. But like specific things about like whatever. Like it could be all the hot topics, it could be the minor issues.

It's just funny. It could be changed. Like Joe Rogan has a stand up bit where like he meets one of the forefathers and he was like, you know what the forefathers would say when they came back to our time? They'd be like, holy shit, you haven't written anything new. I wrote that fucking thing with a feather, you know, obviously referring to the Constitution and, like, the.

I watched that one.

He was like, I wrote that shit with a feather. You guys haven't changed that shit yet.

You have freaking airplanes and spaceships.

And it's like you can look at, like, the Constitution and the. Like, the various amendments and all that kind of stuff, and you can read them, but when you read them, you gotta look at it from the perspective of when they were written, you know.

But there have been amendments, but still. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that you're just like, huh?

Yeah.

Just in the world in general. I'm not just talking about that specific thing, but yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I feel like we just take for granted because we're like, well, that's what I'm told to do, or that's what I like. Bullshit, man. Change maker. Be a change maker.

Even the thing about the legalization of marijuana. And I won't go too deep down this rabbit hole, but, you know, it's been proven that there are benefits to it. It's been proven that. That it's not very harmful to people. Right? It's way less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes and a bunch of other sort of things that are legal and protected because of lobbyists. And.

And the. The reasons that it's illegal are really kind of traced back to pharmaceutical companies and alcohol companies trying to lobby to keep it illegal.

Big money, right?

So luckily, we're in a culture now where people are realizing, like, okay, tracing this back, this isn't the way it should be. This is a plant. It's something that grows in the ground. We literally made a plant illegal. Does that even make sense? But, you know, I think as society goes more and more towards this direction of.

Questioning why things the way they are, you know, following the money a little bit without getting into, like, conspiracy theories and stuff and just questioning why things are the way they are, will start to solve bigger problems. Bigger income potential will open up, but also, you know, bigger problems in the world will be solved just by questioning the existing norms.

I agree.

All right, so number six here. Just because people take a different path to achieve the results you're also striving for doesn't make one way better. Learn from how others created their existing results instead of criticizing the path they took. There are lessons in all of it. So this one specifically came because I was watching Shark Tank one night, and I think you and I had this discussion once, but I used to watch Shark Tank a lot And I would sit there and be like, oh, my God, this person's such an idiot. Why are they running their business this way, right? And I would sit there and I would just, like, criticize the people on the show, and I would make comments about, oh, they're doing this wrong, and they're doing that wrong, and why would they do that? Oh, my God, these guys are idiots. And then one day, I just kind of had this realization while watching it. I'm like, well, that person's obviously making good money. They have, you know, they have lifestyle freedom because they're running their own job, and they managed to get on national fucking tv. They've actually done a handful of things, right. Why am I sitting here criticizing all the things they're doing wrong? Because a lot of the shit they're doing, right, I haven't accomplished yet, you know, to criticize. And so I kind of had this realization of, like, why am I sitting here criticizing how they got to where they are now when I really should be spending time focusing on here's the cool things they did that got them to where they are now?

Yeah, man. Like I said, it's easy to criticize, and it's. It's tougher to actually take it as a learning point and respect whatever you're. You're experiencing right there.

Yeah, it's like. It's like armchair quarterbacking entrepreneurs, right?

Or someone who has no clue about business saying, you know, picking them apart and all that stuff. Like, have you ever tried. Yeah, like, how much money have you tried to throw into actually creating a business for yourself before you start criticizing the person on tv?

And I still love Shark Tank. I still watch all of the Shark Tanks. I think it's a great show, but I watch it with a different perspective. I watch it as, like, all right, what lessons can be learned from this entrepreneur? Even if I maybe don't agree with, like, the business model or, you know, some of the marketing tactics or whatever, I always look at it a light of, like, how can I learn from this person at where they're at in their business right now? Because most of them are very.

Creative. Like, a lot of them have, like, really, really good ideas and really smart, like, inventions and things like that. They just never had a marketing mind working with them. They just never had a finance mind working with them. Right. They make. They make mistakes because they're doing. They're working in their expertise, but they don't necessarily have the other experts around them.

Yeah, I think that's a biggie.

Let's See number seven, Money is a shitty measuring stick for success. Happiness is much better, but harder to compare.

I'm going to take a hack of this first. Not from your perspective, of course, but from my.

I want to hear it from my perspective, but from.

You ain't going to get it. Okay. I can read your mind, but not that well. I'm going to relate this to a buddy of mine, old business partner, Amish Shah, who was also on the podcast before he was one of our initial episodes. So he tells this story in there, so it's nothing new, but how he was using money as a measuring stick. And he found himself at a point where he was extremely successful in his bank account after launches and very successful big promos and things like that. Had all these cars, you know, Maseratis and very expensive things in the parking lot. And he said he was just depressed. Like he had a point where he was just very, very, very deep and dark place, that he was not happy in life. And he chose to change the trajectory of his life, health and mindset and all that. And I actually met him after that fact, after that point. He did some big launches in Internet marketing, and that's how I initially saw him. He's teamed up with guys like Frank Kern and all that. I was like, holy crap. And then I ended up actually partnering up with him on multiple businesses. And we're really, really good friends. And he's a completely different person and obviously respects nice things, but.

He'S a whole 180 from that point. And it's because of this he. And just from his stories, he's not using money as a measuring stick as like success. That's not success anymore. And yeah, I mean, I've obviously, I've been through it, but not at that magnitude. Like, he had this completely. I was like, wow. All right.

Yeah. I mean, I think from. I think both of our own experiences, because we've had multiple discussions about this, we've had phases where we've had a lot of money in the bank. We've had phases where we've had very little money in the bank. From a happiness perspective, I don't feel like it's any different now. From a security and anxiety perspective, I feel more secure and I'm less anxious when I have more money in the bank. But from a happiness perspective, the things I find joy from, it doesn't change.

Yeah.

You know, so that's. That's really. That's sort of my perspective on it. Like real short and sweet. It's just from my own personal experience of, like, the times where I had a lot of money accumulated in the bank versus the times I didn't have a lot of money. Having more money is better. Don't get me wrong. Having more money is better than not having money in the bank. But from a happiness perspective, the things that I enjoy, it doesn't change anything.

It actually reminds me of one of the advisors for a company that Amish and I owned at a time. It was a publishing company. And he pretty much said that verbatim because he had a lot of money, probably still does, but he basically said he was like. I think he was like, yeah, he was investing, and he saw there were all these downturns in the market, and he was like, motherfucker.

But he was talking about. He was like, have a lot of money, doesn't have it, you know, doesn't solve happiness. But it sure as hell makes it a lot easier. Makes life easier, is what he said.

Dude, I know a lot of people that have a lot of money, and they're on their, like, fourth wife, and they're constantly buying, like, cars, and they're looking for. Yeah, they're constantly depressed, but they're looking for things to. That they think will bring them the happiness. Yeah, right. And it just. It's. It's not the best. It's not the best way to measure it. And then the final one I have in here is kind of tied in, but money shouldn't be the goal, but it does help facilitate solving larger problems. So, you know, the last one was like, money's a shitty measuring stick. Right? And that's almost like me saying, like, oh, money is bad. Don't focus on money. My. My eighth rule is no focus on money. Money helps you solve bigger problems. Money isn't the measuring stick to judge your success in life, but money is a tool that can help you solve bigger and bigger problems. So don't have any guilt towards trying to get and accumulate money, because it gives you the ability to solve problems. And for me, I think solving problems is a key to happiness. I don't think accumulation of money is a key to happiness. But for me, I like to be involved in solving problems. And that is something that makes me happy, is when I feel like there was a problem. I came to the table, I created a solution that makes me feel good. And so solving bigger and bigger problems, I think can be a key to happiness and a good enough reason to focus on generating more money.

And we've talked about this before where, you know, Accumulating or having a bigger business, accumulating more revenue every year and all that. We're like, what's, what's the end goal here? Like, it's obviously not going to make us happier to do that. Yes, have a great foundation. That's definitely helpful. But why would we want a bigger company? Why would we want a bigger team? Why would we want to own more businesses? And Matt and I were actually chatting and this is something I was thinking about after. It was actually right before this mastermind with Bob Serling and Brad Costanzo, Darren Daugherty was there and it was this whole thing of like, keep it simple and have fun. You know, do that, but grow the business. That means like, let's not overcomplicate this thing. So for us, it's like it's organization, it's process people and eliminating a lot of stuff, but it's also, it gets bored because you do a lot of the same stuff. And that's what Darren Hardy was saying growing his business.

Is that it's boring and you have to captivate and almost excite yourself. And you and I were talking like prior to this and brought up in that mastermind is like, what's this bigger thing we're working on? So, you know, if we end up owning 10, 15 different companies one day, why, why the hell are we going to do that? Well, you know, we should give back in some way. And I know we do a lot individually mainly, but as a company, maybe it's quarterly. We set some kind of goal. And I feel like any business, I mean, we could do this right now is set some goal that you can give back in this maybe three month period, the stretch this quarter of the year that you also have your business goals so you can make more money. But you know, the other result, the really cool benefit out of making more money to keep you on point is to give back to some cool cause or maybe donation to something that you really, it doesn't mean you have to start a foundation, but just like, okay, give away 10 grand this quarter to your favorite cause locally. But like using that, you know, declare it publicly, like, you know, declare it online and then know like this quarter, that's your stretch. Like that's your stretch and why you should be motivated to accumulate more money. Yeah, it's not the pattern on bank accounts, even though inherently it will, but you're also going to be giving back and creating a bigger cause or change.

Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, we've mentioned on a few different Episodes. The North Star goal. Having some sort of, like, North Star that you're shooting for, and then it gives meaning behind all the money that you're trying to make.

Yeah. And, you know, our families and friends, like, we're all gonna be fine. Like, take care of everybody that we love and trust and who are supporting us. But also it's this bigger thing that we know we're building towards and we can give back starting right now.

Yeah.

Doesn't matter. Okay, fine. Give a grand. Fine. Cool.

Yeah. And then there's. There's one more rule that. Not rule, but sort of like, lesson of the year that I didn't write down, but it's something that I'm going to write in my journal because it's been on my head a lot. But it's this. So this. We'll call this one number nine would be that. For me, the real key to happiness has been the removal of judgment. And I. And I mean me judging others, but also.

Removing the feeling that others are judging me. So if I walk through life feeling like nobody's judging me, nobody's really. Everybody's in their own head, working on their own things, nobody's really judging me or thinking about what I'm doing, then I'm free to just be me and who gives a shit what other people think about me? And then also by not judging others, by. Not by. And I'm obviously not perfect at this at all. We've probably judged people in this episode.

But it's just human nature.

But, you know, trying to remove judgment of others as much as possible have been sort of keys to happiness for me. So, A, removing the feeling that others are judging me, but B, doing my absolute best to. At the very least, when I find myself judging others, realizing I'm judging others and telling myself to stop. And that's something that I found my brain doing more and more often is I'll see somebody walk by and I'll be like, what is that idiot doing? Or something. Or, why is that person wearing those weird pants? Or whatever. Right?

Or someone cuts you off in traffic and you feel like it's like a personal attack, but really it's just someone rushing to work.

Yeah. Yeah. But when I see someone wearing funky pants or something, I might catch myself going, man, that person looks like an idiot in those pants. But I catch myself and go, I have no idea their scenario. Maybe they. Maybe they woke up this morning and all of their clothes were still wet in the laundry, and the only one that were dry were these pink pants. That were given as a gag gift. And he had no choice, but he had to get out to go meet with somebody. So he just said fuck it. And he threw on these pink pants and. And he's having a really shitty day because he has to wear these fucking pink pants. And he's in his hone head about everybody else judging him. And here I am buying into that, going, fucking, fucking guy in his pink pants. Right. Like you don't know what his day went by. And so I catch myself trying to think about like, why am I judging this guy? I literally don't know the story that led up to this judgment.

Yeah, it's tough because I feel like that's just innate. That's something that we just do automatically.

But I feel like if there was a scale to measure happiness when you're in this place where you don't feel like anybody's judging you, so you just don't get give a crap what anybody thinks about you.

I know I was going to say that.

And if you're also in a place where you shut off the judgment of others, you look around and you're not thinking about like, oh, why is that person do that? Why am I judging this person? Why am I thinking about that person? You shut off all judgment of others and you figure out how to shut off the idea that others are judging you, your happiness quotient would skyrocket.

And the most ever felt that way. Like without feeling like I had to work super, super hard, I did have to work on it, was doing ayahuasca.

Yeah.

And again, another shout out on our show. You can listen to a whole episode of Matt pretty much interviewing me about my experience in ayahuasca. But that's the exact takeaway. So the day after, well, definitely during, you don't care about anybody around you. But the day after, when you're talking, or at least when my experience, you have this whole circle where you're basically talking about your experience, what you went through and what you're going to work on, yada, yada, yada, Like I was just completely open around these, you know, 20 other people around me or so that I didn't know prior to walking in that room. And I was just letting it all out and being super vulnerable because I didn't feel judged. I wasn't overthinking my thoughts. It was just stuff that kind of flowed out and, and that, that honestly triggered like I was like, holy crap. That's a feeling like I'd never felt before. And we all have the choice to carry on throughout the day doing that, it's being aware. Like it's that whole freaking awareness. Like, hey, we're all like doing. We're all in our heads in some way thinking about issues and things that we're trying to solve in our own lives. Like, why. Why add extra mental pressure and like, you know, if someone cast some kind of judgment to me, doesn't affect me like it shouldn't. It can if you let it. But just know, like, they're probably going through something. You know, I'm gonna keep doing my path. Like, I'm not gonna question what I feel like is a reason choice in whatever matter you're working on.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a.

You know, I agree. I didn't. I haven't done ayahuasca. But yet, yet. But you know that it's a very similar thing. Like, the sooner you realize that most people are in their own heads with their own wheels turning about what they have to do, what they look like today, what they, you know, what just happened to them five minutes prior. Everybody's in their own head with things like that. And the sooner you realize that, the sooner you're able to release the idea that others are judging you. Now, don't get me wrong, there's going to be others out there that are judging you, but fuck them, right?

Exactly. No, that's literally like a mantra. You have to tell yourself, like, fuck it, I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah, fuck. Fuck you if you don't. If you're not riding with me.

If you've ever seen, if you've ever seen, like some of our videos that we post on social media, there's videos of me in my swimming pool with my shirt off. And when I first did those, I was like super self conscious about it. Like, I was kind of like, I don't know if I want to have my shop in videos. I have videos where I got out of bed, didn't brush my hair, and I have like Bedhead, and I'm just like, screw it. I'm just gonna make this video while it's on my mind, dude.

We interviewed David with Bedhead.

Yes.

Both of us. This guy's like an Internet.

Yeah. So, you know, just like I've. I've been doing my best to, on video, the idea that other people might be judging me, what my hair looks like, me with my shirt off or whatever.

What was that mantra that Marks was working on us with? He said your slogan or your mantra for your business should Just be. Fuck it.

Fuck it.

Yeah, I think is what it was. But either way, he influenced that decision. It's. It's one that I know I've mentally told myself. Yeah. Like, it's almost like, fuck it, do it anyway.

Or Richard Branson, screw it, let's do it.

Screw.

I literally think he has a book called that. Yeah.

I mean, that's the. If that's the mantra that helps out, then do it.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's a good place to wrap up. Is the sharing the key to happiness? Have you ever seen Super Troopers? To the newer one?

No. Any good?

There's a great scene where they teach the key to happiness.

All right, well, maybe I'll. Is that. Yes. It's not in theaters anymore.

The key to happiness is a penis in your.

A penis in the asshole.

And then they're like, excuse me, what did you just say to us? The key to happiness is a penis in your. And they're like, I don't think that means what you think it means. And they're, like, talking in a French accent. And then. And then he slows down. He's like, the key to happiness is being happy.

Yeah.

Oh, happiness. Yes. Yes. Happiness in your asshole.

Your asshole. What do you mean by in your asshole? Your asshole? Your. Your dwelling, where you live, your house, your household. Oh, the key to life is happiness in your household. And he's like, that's what I said. The key to happiness is a penis in your.

Penis.

And on that note, thanks for tuning in to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

This is probably my favorite episode ever.

It's probably our longest episode ever.

That's fine. Hope you enjoyed it, y'. All.

All right. Hopefully you got some little gold nuggets of wisdom we're still learning. We're not perfect.

And therapy for me to be very honest.

Just remember the key to happiness or the key to life.

The key of life. Yeah, that's. It's. That's good.

If you remember one thing from this whole episode, just think of the key to life.

It's a good takeaway. Maybe it'll be in the episode companion.

But I am gonna write a blog post with, like, my lessons that I learned. So once that's written, I'll link that up into the show notes of, like, the actual legit lessons I just shared.

That's good. Matt, we gotta stop this podcast because SpaceX is about to launch a rocket that we need to go see back here.

Oh, you wanna go see that rocket launch? All right.

We got to go, y'.

All. See you later. Hopefully you enjoyed this. And subscribe if you haven't already. And you rock. We love you. Bye.