Therapy Sessions 👥 How To Make More Without Selling

This is an intro, intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Flowchart with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf.

Joe Fear.

Hey, what's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. My name is Matt Wolfe. I'm here with my business partner, Joe Fear. Joe Fear.

Yeah. Almost forgot my name. Yeah.

So, okay, so here's the deal. We actually asked some people for feedback about the podcast and we said we. What do you want to hear more of on the podcast? What type of guests do you want to hear? What would you like to see from this podcast? And the thing that came back multiple times was people wanted to see. Well, I guess not see, it's a podcast, but people wanted to hear about inside access to our business. Kind of behind the scenes stuff. What we're working on, what's worked, what hasn't. Various things that we're working on in our business.

Lift the skirt.

Lift this Komodo of the egp. Open the bathrobe. That's because I wear bathrobes every morning. So for me it'd be opening the bathroom. This is a true story.

I've seen Matt on like a live video conference. Matt and I wearing a bathrobe at like noon. Matt, take a shower.

Hey, Dan Brock told me that's the.

Way to do it. That's true.

No, but that was one of the pieces of feedback that kept coming up is people enjoy the episodes where it's just Joe and I talking about behind the scenes of our business, what's working, what's not, and that sort of thing. So, you know, that's what we're doing today. We're going to talk about what's happened a little bit since we've made some major changes. There's an episode that's going to be, I don't know, five or six weeks back now where we talked about how we stopped selling info products. In the marketing world, we do not sell any sort of products about how to build a business or market or anything like that anymore. We shut them all down and we thought we'd use this episode as a little update about what's going on.

Yes. So before we get into it, Matt, cheers.

Cheers. We are drinking a beer.

Cheers. With a plastic cup. What are we drinking? I don't even know.

This is a great local beer that Tony Gwynn inspired.

394. Very nice.

Yes.

Hail Smith.

I was giving the story behind it. Damn it.

No, I smelt it. I'm like, yeah, I know what beer this is.

Yeah, it's $3.94.

So. So the big thing, and this is not even supposed to be a hook, this is literally how it happened. But we want to basically talk about how since doing this new shift in our business, it's been about six weeks, probably seven weeks somewhere around there, but we're making more without selling products, for instance, but really selling in general, we're just making a lot more in many ways. So that could be money, it's opportunities, it's all sorts of things. We're actually making more of time available for ourselves too. So really that's like the overlying theme of this first update since we made this big shift in the business where. And just to recap, like, basically the shift was we used to sell a bunch of products online and, you know, we've always been growing an email list, been very savvy with online marketing and, you know, driving, traffic, all that fun stuff. But we were selling products within, you know, say anywhere from a buck to $500,000 in some sense. Info products, mainly. We have books, other stuff out there. Cool. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day. And just to preface this whole conversation, the reason we got out of that whole scenario is that we felt like we were just swimming in this. I don't want to say a cesspool, but like, it's kind of like this, this no man's land where you're just lost in the mix with everyone else. It's like you're with everyone, but you're kind of alone because no one's really paying attention to you because they can't find you in the mix of everybody else. So we chose, and this is something that Tim Ferriss, he's. He's written about before, where it's like the bloodbath zone where customer service is rampant. You know, you get a lot of people bugging you for customer service. Not like that's a bad thing, but at the same time, it is bad if you have a million people always asking for help and they paid like 30 bucks for a product and they expect full life coaching from you that are chargebacks, refunds, you know, rampant refunds, just complaints, whatever. Run the gambit. Higher advertising costs. These were all the reasons why we moved out of the. Of that space of selling our own products. And this was specifically in the marketing niche. And we chose to work on the extremes, which the one extreme on the far left we'll call it is producing all of our best content that we used to sell in a variety of forms for free@evergreenprofits.com so you can literally go there right now and start to see the quality of content that we used to sell for $100 a month and more and you know, in the same quality that we were putting in our products that were $1,000. So now all that stuff's absolutely free. This podcast is wrapped in that whole ecosystem. But then on the far right side of the spectrum of price, I guess we'll call it, because we're jumping this gap of that whole like cesspool area in the middle that I called it. We're working at that far extreme of anything that is, it's, it's high level coaching, it's consulting, roadmapping, it's events, equity partnerships, things like that. That's the stuff that's kind of the higher end of what we're selling.

Yeah, I mean the beauty of the way that we've shifted our model is that I legitimately feel like we're spending less time working in our business on a daily basis and more time focused on what's going to be the highest leveraged thing we can do with these opportunities at, you know, on, on the table for us. Right. So we legitimately cut out pretty much like all the things that were making the revenue outside of affiliate products and started over. We kept making money from the affiliate products, but everything that was generating revenue beyond that, we pretty much cut off the cut out and had to start from scratch. And that's when consulting came in, coaching came in, the roadmaps, which we'll talk about in a little bit, came in and the doing business with, with businesses for equity. And you know, I, I feel like we're, we're, our time is freed up a lot since we've done that. Yeah, it's, it's, it's been, it's been a fun ride so far.

So I guess the point here is like the whole theme again is we're making more money really is the whole idea. But we're also making more time for ourselves, we're leveraging more, but we're doing this all without selling the typical products that you hear most of the people, online marketing or any kind of space really is say, hey, you have to have a product of your own, you have to have a book, you have to sell a course, a masterclass of whatever. You know, it's all these things like that's what people kind of hone in on.

And I mean, I, there's nothing wrong with being an info business. We actually still are part of multiple info businesses. We're just no longer involved in any info businesses that sell marketing to marketers, you know, because there's this sort of, you know, we have a lot of friends in this world. So I don't want to, you know, talk down about it too much, but there's. There is this sort of incestual thing going on where there's marketers who are selling courses about marketing to other marketers who then in turn create courses about marketing.

What do we call that? Incestuous circle jerk.

Oh, circle jerk.

Okay. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

So there is. There is that sort of circle jerk world that exists in marketing, and there's a lot of good shit out there. I mean, don't get me wrong, we still buy courses on how to be better marketers. Like, we still go and we got.

To keep learning, man.

We got to keep learning. We just don't want to be in that world where we're selling marketing education. We want to sell the hand holding. Who are we talking to the other day where they were saying it was Brad Costanza. We were talking. Was it Brad?

I don't know what you're talking.

We were talking. We were talking to somebody the other day that said that the. The information is free.

Yeah, the.

Not the inspiration.

The. It's basically like, show them what to do, but don't show them how to do it.

Like, we even show them how to.

Do it on the blog. That's true. Well, that's kind of like. That's something I think Aaron Fletcher said before. I know Brad did say something else. I don't know.

I think he said, the information is free, the insights are premium or something like that.

Yeah, and I guess the insights. What he meant is. And I think this is what Aaron means to the how. That's really like, if you're thinking consulting, where someone can go back and forth with you and ask questions and like, you know, bounce ideas off of maybe what to do. Like a training piece. Like, for instance, you know, if you want to talk to us, I mean, we'll respond to you. We have communities and Facebook groups and stuff like that where we freely respond.

To you or our assistant's assistant respond.

To you under our name. No, it's actually us. It's actually us. We do have a sport lady, an assistant, Patty. But no, we get in there and talk. But at the same time is like what you said, really? The insights come from our consulting. That's our roadmaping. That's what we're charging. Premium.

What you'll find on our blog and what Our podcast and what's on our podcast is fairly general information. It's good shit Learned over whatever 13 years of us doing this now, and we put it all out there for free. However, if you're in a very specific niche, let's say you're. You have a business that sells pest control services, well, you're going to have a hard time knowing exactly how to apply the information that's on our blog and on our podcast directly into your business. That's where we feel the value that we actually sell comes into play, is we can basically tailor the information that we're out there freely teaching to your business so that you know exactly how to apply it in your business.

And I guess it took us a long time to get to this point. And I feel like this is a lesson. This is not just telling us or telling you about our journey. You can literally kind of recreate this for yourself because this works for any business. But if you really want to stand out, start thinking slightly different than the masses. Be the contrarian, don't be the one that's just following the herd, and obviously don't be dumb. Don't just go change your business model without having a plan or income. But, but the fact of the matter is, if you do something slightly different, like just start giving away everything for free in a space that's very like, lock your content down, your best stuff down. But we said, no, screw that, we're giving it away for free. But if you want to work with us or if you want to partner on projects, be it in the marketing niche, usually it's actually really. No, we're not even partnering on marketing niches. It's all outside of the marketing niche because let's be honest, everything we do is way more effective in other niches anyway. Hint, hint, hint. But you just free up so much more time and it's kind of like I don't even know what the law is. But if you free up more time in your day, inherently you're going to fill it with something.

Yeah. Now there's something that this, what you just said sort of brought something to mind where, you know, we subscribe to those memos, things from the traffic and funnels. Dudes. Chris Evans, I think Chris Evans and Taylor Welsh. Right. Sorry for forgetting their names. We actually met Chris Evans at a Mastermind once. He's a nice dude. But no, we subscribed to their memos and they actually pointed something out in their memos that I actually found really, really valuable. And it was this concept I don't know if you've read this one yet or not, but it was this concept of they go out of their way to do things that the competition can't compete with. So, for example, their memo things. Most people are out there selling newsletters for $99. I mean, who would do that? Just crazy jerks. But most people are out there selling newsletters for $99. We did it. Still think it's a good business model, but these guys are out there selling very similar information for $7 a month. And the reason they, I mean, what, the reason they talk about doing this is because they know nobody's going to compete, nobody's going to break even or possibly even lose money to put these newsletters out there. And they get to just own the market because of it, because nobody wants to compete with them. And they used an example of Amazon too, about how Jeff Bezos.

He'S constantly like willing to lose money and willing to sell things for cheaper than they cost him just to edge out other competitors.

Well, it's all about the customer experience for that guy. He'll do anything at any cost.

And with our blog and our podcast and our whole platform that teaches marketing, we've kind of gone in that direction. I mean, we went in that direction before we ever read any of that stuff. But, um, we've kind of gone in that direction of we're just gonna put the stuff that other people are out there selling for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. We're gonna make that widely available. It's free. Go to our blog, go to our podcast. We're gonna teach you the stuff that realistically we've probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years to learn ourselves. We're just gonna teach it for free, knowing that nobody's gonna compete with us and we're gonna stay top of mind when people need that hand holding help. Yeah.

So it's, it's something that anyone can really get into. So it's not like you have to have an established business with a big list and all that stuff and a lot of momentum for yourself. You can literally start this at a ground level if you wish. And you know, in this road mapping stuff that we do for our clients and we'll, we'll talk about what this roadmaping thing is, because it's kind of vague right now. Yeah, but basically, yeah, like our consulting people, we give them roadmaps and some of them are people who are kind of starting out or maybe shifting into a new niche and just need guidance on where to go, you know, in the next, say three months or so. And there's a lot of folks we talk to and we're like, okay. And they don't have any, you know, connections really in their space.

But the whole thing is like, and I'll just give an example, like a lady is a bookkeeper, one of our clients, and she really doesn't have a lot of connections. She has a couple, but they're kind of loose connections. But if you think about it, bookkeeping, and she's in a specific niche. If you have, it's like what home remodels and designers, things like that, you got to think your personal connection, the people who know like and trust you have connections to whoever your most ideal client is. And it might take a couple connections where like, okay, ask your, you know, it could be your friend or your, whatever, your sister, they might know a person who knows a contractor or a home remodel person. So for this specific person, she can then start a conversation with those folks, give them a good win win reason why they should meet up or have a phone call. But the whole idea is like, you're starting to kind of create some value for these folks and extend your network so you can then start offering something at could be a high level or no brainer offer. And that's really what it comes down to is creating some kind of offer to folks that's a no brainer, that's different, it's unique, you deliver it differently as well and you start to stand out of that pack. And that's really the whole essence here is don't really do what everyone is, everyone else is doing that. You just think the masses are doing this. So I have to price my product at $49 or $47.

Right.

Like kind of think a little differently and think out of the box when you do this.

Yeah, I mean that's, that's one thing that's crazy. It's like you look at the marketing world in general, how many products are out there end in 7, 47, 97, 197. Like, why do you think that is? Like it literally at one point some marketer just went, I like to put sevens on the end of my products. And then other marketers went, he's doing it. So that's probably a smart idea because he's a smart marketer. And then other people saw those people doing it and it just, that's how it went. There's literally no data or proof that I've ever found that shows that $97 converts better than $99.

I've seen, I've seen some people say, and I don't know if there's a study or not maybe, but how the 7 looks skinnier, so it looks like a 1. So that makes the whole concept of the 97. I know, it's total bullshit. Like, no, you know, what you need to do is have a fricking no brainer offer. And your offer itself or like, you know, the sales message, the price and all that stuff is a part of it. But let's be honest, if that offer is sexy enough, no brainer enough, and people know that they can change their life with whatever.

Yeah.

Like you can get them from their current pain and frustrations and now they can hit their current goals, or at least their short term goals and desires, their passions. That you don't need a crazy sales message or webinar or landing page funnel bullshit. Like you just need a killer offer and just talk to people.

No, it's like, it's like that whole thing where we've had this discussion multiple times actually is like price is almost never, ever the objection that's holding people back. It might be the one that they say is holding them back. Yeah, it's an excuse, but it's always an excuse. For example, we've always used the sort of car analogy. If somebody drove up in a 2017 Rolls Royce Phantom and said, look, you can have this car for 20 grand, you'd figure out how to get that frickin 20 grand. Right? Because you know that tomorrow you can turn around and sell that car for six figures.

Right.

So, you know, money is really never that objection. And there's also that example of like, why do, why do poor people always manage to have like the biggest TVs.

Big TVs. Yeah, right.

It's because that's, that's their priorities. Like they will put money towards what they prioritize in life.

Yeah.

Right. So, you know, money is never really, really an objection if somebody says, oh, it's too expensive, all it really means is that you haven't proven the value enough.

Mm. Yeah. And that's. So here's a little example of this, and this is literally a real life case study of us trying to basically sell this offer. Because let's just set the stage and we're being super transparent. You know, when we made the shift in the business, we had a gap in income that we had to fill. Right. I mean, we had a newsletter that had recurring revenue and we literally just shut it off we emailed all the people and said, hey, you're canceled. You know, we love you, we're gonna keep giving you great content, but you don't have to pay for it anymore.

Woohoo.

So yeah, it sounds great. But then Matt and I over here were like fa. Yeah. But we did have a plan. We had multiple plans really. We had kind of like four things in priority lists of okay, here's how to not only fill this gap but like, let's blow past it quickly. And the gap was roughly, I don't know, it was about 30 ish grand per month. And so I mean it's not a small gap but at the same time it's like, okay, if we know to focus on certain things and really hone in on this and do them well, we can make that gap up. I mean that's not an issue. We gave ourselves what about a couple months or so to kind of fill the gap?

Yeah, I'd say a month.

Yeah. Really, it's faster the better, obviously. Yeah, but so what we wanted to do is work on that higher end. So Matt for instance, he's the content man, he's the SEO guy, he can spot trends and keywords and opportunities. He helps run the whole podcast system. All the content stuff you see is a result of Matt's job genius in systems.

I finally got Joe's approval and now I'm gonna stop patting him on the back and kick him in the ass. No, but I'm even better. So no, I focus on more the people to people interactions, the community, the talking, the talking on the phone, the selling, things like that. So basically Matt was gonna hold that up, bring in affiliate revenue and all that, which is still great, it's been growing. But I was going to head up the consulting, coaching, all that stuff. So we had a plan to have group coaching available, selling for around four or five grand. And it was going to be like 10 people. Cool. It's going to fill the gap, give us more actually. I don't know what the math. Yeah, somewhere in there. And basically you know, that was going to be a 3 month coaching. Cool. 10 people shouldn't be too hard, right? Well, I sold a couple of people, but definitely, and this was a one on one kind of conversation talking to our best people subscribers. It was not a no brainer offer. It wasn't the offer that was hitting. And like to be very honest, as I looked at it, I knew they would get an immense amount of value and get that insight from us, be able to get you Know, bounce ideas and get to their goals. But it wasn't really what we thought was the best approach. It wasn't the best offer. And at that point, you know, we're just obviously wanting to get something out. So Matt's like, hold the fuck off, there's a better way. And then that better way turned into these roadmaps.

Yeah.

And essentially what I say with the roadmap and this is what we ended up doing and selling and actually sold out, we oversold it is to have a strategy call with someone up front, give them some quick wins, but also really learn about what their goals, their roadblocks are, learn all about them and their business, where they want to go, but then we're going to go away and create their own version of an EGP letter, basically, which is literally the first one ended up being 40 pages. And that's no joke and that is not filler. That was straight up. Here is your three to six month instruction manual for you to hit your goals in your business.

Oh, I love, I love, I love that sort of visual of it. Like we just wrote an instruction manual for your business for you. So if you want to be successful with the business, follow the instruction manual, don't skip a letter on it and you'll be on your way. Yep, right.

That turned into an instant no brainer offer when I, when we made that shift. I mean we definitely debated over this for a long time and middle of the night in some cases. But once, just like that, it flowed out of my mouth just now so easily I like had to memorize that it literally is what it is. And just the fact that I was able to sum it up right there and you know, it's. People were able to resonate with that immediately. And immediately even people got referred to us from someone who thought they weren't quite ready for it yet, but they referred a friend that actually wasn't even warmed up to us. Right. It was, wasn't anyone that ever heard of us followed us, but their friend just said, hey, you got to listen to these guys. I think this would be a good offer for you. Hopped on the phone for a total of five minutes. I think I told him it was, he's like, yeah, it's a no brainer, I'm going to hop in and I'm probably going to buy one from you every, you know, two, three months. Just keep having that instruction manual because I'm a high level thinker but I just need to have the blinders put on me told what to do.

I mean, we got to a point where we were trying to force a square peg into a round hole with our group coaching, right? People weren't really excited about the group coaching, but we kept trying to sell it, try to sell it, try to sell it, Right. But it just, it wasn't hitting. People weren't that interested in joining us on a group coaching because, you know, my, my sort of theory on it is we would have to speak in generalities on a group coaching, right? We would have to get on there and say, here's what's working now for us now. Try to figure out how what we just taught you applies to your own business. Right? That's not that exciting. People want tailored to their business. They want to say, this is my business. What would you do if you were me? Right? So doing these roadmaps allowed us to look at somebody's business and say, okay, let's put ourselves in their shoes. If I had this business and this was my baby, what would I do step by step to take this to double sells in the next six months, right? And now it went from, okay, join us on group coaching to, hey, give us $4,000. We'll show you how to make, you know, we'll show you how to double your business in six months. We're selling money at a discount now.

Which that rate's definitely going up because that was, that was a bargain for what they're getting from us. But so saying that, I mean, this isn't just supposed to be just a big hey, rah rah, here's what we're selling and stuff. But that's just to kind of show you how really a no brainer offer can change the game for you. And that wasn't the only thing that became a no brainer. We basically, like I was saying, we created more space and time for ourself and our business and we stopped selling products. Hence we started growing our email list more. We started getting a lot more listeners on our podcast, which is cool.

Our podcast has been freaking exponential lately.

Yeah. Yeah. In the last like at least month and a half. Two. Two months. And that inherently has now brought us at least every single week we get about three to four new requests for people who want to work with us in some kind of fashion. And that's not consulting. That's. Well, some are consulting, but a lot of them are partnerships, equity deals, advisory deals, things like that. And they came around beforehand, but they were usually conversations that were kind of spotty here and there. We were really focused on making Money right now, right here, get the cash flow, you know, sell a product. But with this now, I mean, we're talking some pretty good sized stuff is coming through the door. And it's exciting because now we can really hone in on just our skill set. And if it's advising, you know, we're advising these folks and we're talking established businesses. These aren't just startups that are coming to us, but established businesses that need help with email marketing, with content marketing, with traffic generation.

That actually brings me to a point that I think might be kind of a nice, fun little rabbit hole to discuss for just a second is the concept that when it comes to business you need to start from scratch, right? And this is something that I think has been such a huge aha for me and you over the last three, four months, right? Is this concept of why are we trying to start stuff from scratch? Our past businesses that we've done, we've always been like, okay, let's go find a domain name, let's go set up our Hosting, let's install WordPress, let's find a writer, let's start putting content on this site. Let's go to Facebook and start driving traffic. Let's go to Google and start running ads. Let's figure out how do we SEO this content. We started everything from frickin scratch. We had a zero mailing list, we had to put one new subscriber on every day. We were always starting from scratch. And I think this, this sort of came from Travis Sago and it also came from discussions with Brad Costanzo, Damian Rufus, talking to Damian Rufus and talking to James Schramko. You know, a lot of these, these people, they've, they've kind of all had this similar philosophy of why do you work so hard? Why do you start from scratch?

Right?

Why are you trying to build everything from the ground up? And that was such a huge aha moment for us in our business was we don't have to build stuff from scratch. We can go out there and find existing or people are coming to us with existing businesses and saying, look, here's everything I've built. How do I take it to the next level? Well, that's our opportunity to get on in a business that is existing, that already has momentum behind it and we can just bring our unique talents to it and make it grow even faster.

Yeah.

And that, that concept of not starting from scratch has been probably one of the biggest game changers in my brain personally is that I'm not interested in starting Anything new from ground one anymore? Yeah, but I'm really, really interested in starting and going into businesses that already have some momentum behind them and helping that momentum pick up even faster. Yeah.

And yeah, just the words of like, hey, let's buy a domain name, install, hosting, all that. That, like, sent shivers down my spine. We don't do sounds like that just sounds like work. We have boring.

We do have one project in the works right now that we are starting from scratch, but it's a very experimental project. We'll see how that one plays out.

Well, that's. Yeah, we'll get into that some other time. But basically the short on that is we're actually passing off on Patty, who's our. She holds up all customer service and does a lot of our sales repping. She's just an awesome writer and knows us. So this is actually. It's not even a skill for her, even though we incentivize her with equity in the project itself. Rep share, inequity. But it's more of a skill on our test to us to let go of all the stuff that we are so used to doing. But. And we took this from James Schamko as well. In his book, he basically called it something, an infinity project. Basically something for your team to work on when they are not busy doing their role, like, their stuff. And basically we created this thing. We're like, okay, we really want to sell a business this year. So the whole idea is to build this thing in a whole new niche and then flip it and pretty much have Patty do the entire thing and not us do it. All right. So, I mean, we're there to advise her. We're there to give her some strategies, but she's out there getting the logo and getting a blog guy to install everything. It's all stuff we can do.

One thing we did do was we bought the domain name. Right?

Yeah.

So. Oh, the kids want to come in and say hello real quick.

Hi. Where are your pants? It's cold.

I'm not wearing pants. That's a true statement. Those are chonies. Hi.

Hi. Who are you? What are you wearing?

I'm wearing a princess dress and sparkle shoes and I have a purse. What? And her name is Amy. Amy.

Your name is Amy?

Yeah. My name is Princess Amy.

Hello.

Squishy.

Why are you squeezing the mic? We've got to finish working.

So people.

Wanted behind the scenes. This is some behind the scenes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Hello. Hello. How are you?

Bye. Bye. See you later.

Put some pants on, kid.

I might leave some of that in.

That's funny. Why not?

So our kids just paid. My kids just paid us a visit while we're recording.

They paid us. See, that's our new customer right there. The kids are paying us.

All right, so it got sidetracked. So where. What were we talking about?

I don't know.

So we were talking about the concept of not starting from scratch and the project we're working on with Patty. And the one thing I was going to say that we did do was we did pick the domain name, but once we had the domain name, we gave everything off to her. And again, like Joe said, this was an exercise in. Well, I think it's probably more of an exercise for me than it is for Joe. I think Joe's always been better at this than me. I want to do everything in the business, and if I didn't do it, I want to micromanage it and double check it and make sure it's up to my standards. And this is our exercise in forcing me to stop doing that.

You like how Matt just paid me a compliment right back. That was nice. I like what he did there.

It was compliment. Ish.

It's a fucking compliment. I'm gonna keep it. I'm gonna hold on to that tight and frame it. But, yeah, so.

I mean, saying all that, I guess the whole point that we're trying to make is, like, it's pretty cool because in this last month, month and a half, it feels like we're doing less, but more is coming to us in terms of opportunities. We are making more, but working with less people, so it means less headaches. And let's be honest, when you're working one on one with people, especially in this capacity, we can be ultra selective. We're not working with people who are dicks or pains in the asses that are gonna be, you know, emailing us 20 times a day. Like, literally, when I hop on the phone, I tell them, I will respond to you maybe twice per week. And if it's urgent, write urgent in the title. That's fine. Like, I respect that and I will respond to you quicker, but don't abuse that. And when you. When you have a list of questions, put them all in one email.

Yeah.

Not in 20 different emails. Because let's be honest, urgent.

Should I put my logo in the center or on the left?

Like, I will fire you as a client now. It's not worth it, but everyone respects it. That's what I'm trying to say is if you work with people in a Capacity like that. Treat them like a human. They respect you. I respect them. We respect them. You just have a great time. That's how you make amazing connections. I mean, listen to some of our podcasts here. We've talked to so many great connectors. There's a lot of cool opportunities. We just talked to John Cochran.

Yeah. Which that podcast will actually be coming out. It'll be next week. It'll actually be the one after this one.

So cool. So after this one. I mean, he's a great example. If you listen to that one. I highly recommend it next week. He holds events all over the country, world. But the guy, he was 23 years old and worked at the White House as President Clinton's writer. One of his writers.

But he also worked at a little startup company called DreamWorks.

Yeah. Never heard of it. But the whole fact of the matter is that the guy has been able to be very creative in the way to get attention and be top of mind with people, even if he doesn't have an experience in that field or know anybody there. There's creative ways that you can think that can get you top of mind and get you new opportunities and really rise above the rest faster than, you know, most people that just feel like they have to follow the flow of things.

Rise. 25.

Well, that's a plug for him.

That was his brand name.

Do we need to hit him up for some money now? All right.

The feedback we got about this podcast was people wanted to hear more, kind of behind the scenes, what we're doing in our business. So we're curious. What do you think? Go into our Facebook community, Go to the private Facebook group, the Evergreen Profits community, and let us know what you think about episodes like this. Do you like us kind of going behind the scenes, talking about what we've learned in our business, what we're working on, what has worked, what hasn't. Hearing my kids without pants. All that kind of stuff.

I was gonna say, yeah, my lovely singing God, that's gonna make the cut.

Everything's making the cut. I'm just cutting out the long pause when we were trying to figure out if I should answer the door for my kids or not.

Where's Mommy? Don't worry about it.

No, and I guess the last thing, too, is I want to. I mean, if you are someone who is interested in getting that instruction manual made for your business, I mean, this isn't something that we even have to hard sell. It's. We already have a waiting list. But the fact of the matter is it's really cool. It's really fun for us to go through this exercise. It's really good for the person as well. You and we immediately just after the first call because the whole point of that first call, it's an hour call. We're giving them quick wins ways for them and then the whole email follow up recording all that stuff. I give them after the fact. They literally are out there hustling right after that call and can make tweaks. I mean there's one guy literally, we called out one thing on his website, his SEO just tanked and we're like, hey, focus like right here. It probably will take you an hour that can literally turn Your sales back 30% because like, but without a focus like that, I mean it's, that's really what we're doing for these folks and it's super exciting. But if it's something that you feel like you need that extra guidance so that maybe you're a big thinker and you have so many ideas, so many opportunities, you just need someone, a couple guys here to give you that roadmap and some checkup calls. Definitely just go to evergreenprofits.com roadmaps there's going to be like a little wait list opt in page thingamajigger there. Nothing formal.

Have we made that page yet?

No, but I just made that up right now and God Jesus. Bursting my bubble right here trying to be able to.

Hey, we're letting people see behind the scenes. We're opening the bathrobe, remember?

God, no one wants to see that bathrobe. Just kidding. Front of it, please not open. No, but the fact of the matter is put your name there, email there. We're not going to send you any like freebie or any of that stuff. You can get that on evergreenprofits.com it's not degree list. It's literally first come, first serve. We like to talk to people to see if you're qualified. We'll get to know you a little bit more and like Matt said, it's not cheap. But at the same time you will make this, I mean the whole point, first goal of each one is to make your, you know, your investment back on this. That's why multiple people buy these things and have said they will buy more of these things every two, three months. So there's a reason for that. It works, it's fun, it's focused and it'll make you more money. So like I said evergreenprofits.com roadmaps just put your Name and email there. I'll follow up with you since that's my thing and. And I'm anti social and you won't hear much from Matt, but. No, you will. Matt and I actually roadmap literally each person for like a couple hours more and then spend, I don't know, feels like a week or so writing each one. And then the follow up calls are pretty much both of us on there hopping out there and answering questions. So it's good stuff. Yeah, go there. That wasn't a sales pitch, but it was just a, hey, hey, get on our wait list.

We may not even accept you.

Okay. So. Yeah, geez. Just kidding. We love you.

All right, well, we're planning on maybe doing one of these little behind the scenes episodes once every other month or so. So, you know, give us your feedback, let us know on Facebook if you like this. If there's. If you have questions of like, what do you want to know that goes on behind the scenes of our business? Because if we were to really, like, go in depth on what our day to day looks like in our business, it would be the most boring podcast episode ever because it would be me talking about getting into WordPress, finding what keywords I'm supposed to SEO, and then Joe probably putting his head down and writing in between getting on calls.

Let's be honest, I think I heard someone ask Elon Musk recently, like, hey, I want to know what your day to day routine is and what you do. And he's like, it's pretty boring. Like, so, yeah, you don't want to know our day to day. That's not even.

I pretty much just broke down our day to day. I look at keywords on.

That's you.

That's my look at keywords on Ahrefs. Well, I said both of us, but.

All right, no one, no one gives a lie.

I look at keywords on Ahrefs. I get into WordPress and optimize various blog posts for those keywords. I mail our list. It's pretty much me staring at a screen all day. Now, Joe, here's Joe's day to day. And I'm not even with Joe on a day to day basis, but here's his day to day. He writes and he gets on phone.

Calls and I sleep. No, I don't. I wish I slept more.

He drinks beer.

I don't even drink that that often anymore. But that's coming up soon. All right, so, all right, moving on. That'll be a next episode.

Maybe talk about overtime if you're in San Diego for Traffic and Conversion Summit. Look up our Overtime Brewing event. We're putting on a little local fun event where we drink beer and hang out.

And overtime overtimebrew.com check it out. I think it's like 2-27-ish. Somewhere around there. Yeah. During Traffic and Conversion Summit in San Diego. Head on over. It's a free event. All you got to do is just hang out, drink some beer if you wish.

It's pretty much just us hanging out at a brewery and telling other people to show up and hang out with us is what it is.

But we made it cool because we made our own beer too. So that is all. All right, join us. Go to evergreen profits.com roadmaps and tell us what you thought about this episode. If you want more, what are your questions? And we love you. Bye Bye. Bye. All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out out at evergreenprofits. Com. So that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.