Therapy Sessions 👥 Mind-Altering Substances

Welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your hosts, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

Yo, yo, yo, yo.

My name is Matt the Flowchart Wolf and I'm with my partner, my very.

Lovely partner, Joe Hustle, the Hairy Hustle Fear.

And today we're back at you with another duet episode. I like saying it. It always sounds so weird.

Are we gonna start singing or something? Yeah.

Do you remember the song from Walk the Line or what was that movie?

The.

The Johnny Cash spoof movie?

Oh, my God. Yeah.

And they.

I don't know.

One of the songs was let's duet tonight. Come back to my house and let's.

Duet, you know, tonight.

Yeah. So I don't know, whenever I think of duet, I always think of that song. Let's duet with me tonight.

All right, so anyway. Yeah.

So this episode is gonna be a little bit different than some past episodes. If you are at all offended by concepts of mind altering substances, I recommend you turn this episode off. Now we're gonna get a little into some realms we haven't gotten into before. Talk about some altered states and how they can actually affect your business and your life and some interesting wormholes that can take.

So if. This is a hell of an intro. Yeah.

If you're going to be. If that type of stuff worries you and you really don't want to hear it and you're. You're going to be offended by that kind of stuff, maybe skip to the next episode, but this one, we're going to dive deep. Joe had sort of an experience that has significantly impacted his business and his life. And we're going to talk about that experience.

Yeah. And by the way, if you are offended by this kind of stuff, I would honestly say, I mean, get a little open minded. Yeah. I mean, I'm just gonna be honest. You know, there's a lot of cool tools and things you can do to yourself because you know, you're. You have a lot of untapped potential inside of you that is locked in your head or in your, your heart or wherever it is. But like there's, there's reasons for things out there and you know, what nature provides. I mean, guys like Steve Jobs, Tim Ferriss and like a whole bunch of big. It's actually pretty popular and like CEOs and stuff is. Yeah. Is experimenting with psychedelics to then unlock things in your brain.

Yeah.

You know, that might be kept captive for some reason.

Yeah. So we're Kind of going into some sort of uncharted territories for this podcast because as Joe just said, we're going to be talking about psychedelics a little bit, which is totally off topic from what we normally talk about. But it has had a significant impact on your, your business and your life and the way you've see things. And, you know, it's just, it's had an impact positively, I imagine.

Right.

It has on, on business. So, you know, we're not going to talk negatively about an experience that's had a positive impact across, across the board for you.

Well, it's not, it's not positive or negative. It just kind of is just like anything in life. I feel like you can't. If you put too much, you know, like a label on something, then it gets a stigma and then. Which I know, you know, people will classify things like psychedelics into, ooh, it's a drug. And it's like, well, actually do a little research before and like, yeah, there's obviously some really bad stuff you could probably do, but there's also stuff that's completely natural, found in a jungle, you know, and it's literally just tea, you know, brewed as a tea and boom, it's ready. Yeah, it's so I don't know if I'd classify that as a drug. I would say more of a medicine.

Yeah.

And that's what they kind of say.

I mean, I like, I like, I intro it. I think it's a. Something that puts you into an altered mental state. It's a mind altering substance that puts you into an altered mental state and, you know, helps unlock things in your brain that you may not have known were there.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. So that's what we're talking about. And specifically we're talking about an experience Joe had with ayahuasca.

Yes.

Is that, is that how you say it? Ayahuasca?

No, I think you're right. I don't know. Ayah or the juice. The juice. Not like OJ but when I think.

Of, when I think of the juice, I think of like steroids. That guy's juicing.

Yeah. I don't call it the juice, I just made that up. But ayahuasca is. And don't ask me to spell it. Just, just type in the best you can a Y, a Hoska in Google or look at the show notes, I guess.

So here's what I want to know.

Yes. Hit me.

You did this in a very sort of controlled environment. It wasn't like you went and found some dude who opened his back trunk and said, hey, you want to buy some of this shit?

And you're like, yeah, it's not like high school days where you're just getting weed from.

Yeah. And then you went and hid behind some bushes and toked it up out of a bong or something.

Right during recess.

No, you did this in a controlled environment with experts who actually do this for a living and help people go through this process. So I want to hear first of all, what was the process? Let's save for a second the actual experience that you had. What was the process?

Okay, so it was a controlled environment. It was put on by a doctor who's administered like 3,000 ceremonies of this. That's what they call the whole experience which could last, you know, a two day experience. It could last a week. I only did one night, so only one, one session of it. And it was held in a house that was, you know, basically rented out or it was owned by someone there. But either way it was, it was a big house. There was about 10 of us, 10 to 15, but. So it was a bigger group than normal. I think typically you want to keep around 10 or less. So it's a little bit, you know, it's not as many people around there, distractions and stuff, but, but we had, also everyone had different chaperones that can kind of watch you and make sure you're cool and everything's fine. So it's cool because before you actually take anything, they, they, they kind of educate you on the plant and the history of it. At least for this specific thing that I did, I can only say from my own experience, I only did it once. There's people that have done it a lot of times, you know, saying like 50 plus, but for years and years, you know, I'm not saying every day they're like hitting this thing because that's not how it's used at all. Most people are doing it maybe once per year, maybe a couple times.

Yeah, I've heard of people using it as sort of like a reset.

Kind of like mushrooms. Yeah, like psychedelic shrooms. Yeah, it's. It's like that's how Tim Ferriss describes it. I know Steve Jobs did it multiple times, I think a year. And yeah, like. And they used it as a tool to unlock different creativity, you know, or maybe blanking out their, like their ego, you know, things that might be stopping them from progressing in life. This is a way to get rid of a lot of that shit and stop these blockages in your brain. Even though it sounds a little weird that something like this would help you with that. It totally did. Yeah. So basically the whole, the whole experience. So we're in this house and it starts the ceremony probably, you know, the explanations start around 6:30 or so. So still a little light. But the ceremony itself last or started pretty much right when it got dark, which I, you know, it was back in November, so it was about like, you know, it was getting dark earlier. Yeah. But either way it was around 7 o', clock, 7, 8 o' clock or so when we started the actual ceremony. Which it was cool because, you know, we're all on couches and stuff in the living room. It's a big house, so you, you're comfortable. But the ceremony, they tell you it lasts until about, I mean really, it's all night long, like no one's driving home, you're sleeping over there. So we had, you know, we had all of our. Actually ended up tent camping in the backyard, which is a bad idea because it was freezing cold, but still it was great because the stars were like the brightest they can ever be. Especially enhanced with this.

And that's another aspect of the controlled environment just for those closed minded people is nobody was driving home or they actually rented a house for the night. So nobody was leaving.

Yep. So yeah. So the education, so it's really cool because you learn about this thing and how sacred of an act that this is. Like you don't go in there just doing it. Like you would say, like, oh, I'm gonna go get high or oh, I'm gonna go do shrooms, you know, and not like everyone says that, but still like it's not a recreational type thing at all. So that's why honestly a lot of people don't know about it. And, and it's still very misunderstood. And like technically in the US you're not allowed to take it. So that's why this was a religious experience. So technically it's, it's done under a religion which you know, you basically kind of get into for the evening. Yeah, but, but it's, which is fine because that's what, you know, you're basically protected by that. A lot of people go to Peru or other South American places to go on a retreat maybe for the week and they spend whatever amount of money it's always worth vetting out who administers this. I think that's the smartest thing you can do and then making sure you're at the cool group of people, people you trust. I went with some people That I know. And then I basically heard it was all word of mouth stuff, so I was pretty comfortable with going into it and totally was cool.

So the education, you learn how you get to actually hold the root. So it's a combo of a root, the leaf, which has the dmt, which is dmt, I don't know what it stands for, but basically it's a chemical in your brain that helps you produce dreams and different visions in your mind. So dmt, which is dimethyl.

It'S unpronounceable.

Yes.

Dimethyl phytamin.

Yes. So they describe it as a powerful psychedelic compound of the tryptop family. But basically it's in your brain. So we all have this thing called DMT in our brain. It's a chemical compound and it creates visions and all ayahuasca is doing and things like peyote, things like mushrooms or lsd, like it's all sparking, this DMT thing. So basically, you know, you're, you're getting the DMT level higher. So then you're gonna get visions either by visually seeing, which I didn't really get a lot of, but I got more visions when I closed my eyes and kind of like meditated. So that was like my experience of it. So everybody's experience is slightly different.

Yeah.

So you'll learn about all that and then you kind of get into the, the actual ceremony.

So basically you're sitting there, they basically explain this is, this is a root, this is not bad, this is not.

Something in a leaf and water. Basically.

Yeah. And everybody kind of feels it and sees it. So they kind of know what they're dealing with. They realize this is, this is nature, this is something that came from nature. This is not, this is not good, this is not bad, this is just neutral. It's something that came from nature.

Yeah, literally it was from the specific one we did was from Hawaii and it was like a 20 year old root that literally we were using that night.

And then they sort of explain what to expect, right?

Yeah.

So they give you an explanation of like, here's what is going to happen when you sip on this stuff. And then after that then they what, they just divvy it out?

Yeah, so they, they tell you that, you know, you're gonna, it's a long experience, like you're up till the wee hours of the night, like 4 in the morning. Um, so prior to this we had to fast, we were for like 12 hours. So it's only water. So going into it, you're not hungry, but definitely by the end of the night. Yar. Yeah, you know, there was a feast and all that stuff at like three in the morning, so. Sounds weird, but you're like, pumped for that feast at three in the morning. Yeah, I'll get into that. But. But yeah, so you. So after they explain all this and they tell you, you know, like, you get nauseous during this. That's perfectly normal. So everybody has a little bucket just in case, you know, like, for emergencies, you do have to spit a lot because, you know, you just kind of get that feeling like you have. I mean, because at the end of the day, this is medicine. That's how they call it, this medicine. The whole point is to keep it down long enough to where your body is going to feel these effects. You know, you can't just like, puke it up or something. Because some people have that reaction because it's not. Some people really like the taste. And then some people are just like, it's like medicine, like cough medicine. Like, kids don't want to keep it down sometimes. But like, no, you get better and you feel better if you keep it down. So they kind of tell you, like, hey, you know, when you go to the bathroom, don't lock the door. Like, things like that, safety precautions and all that. So you're like, super comfortable getting into it. And then. Yes. So after you're all done, it starts. You basically choose. There's three sessions throughout the night. So three different times, you have the opportunity to take the tea is what they call it. And you choose, at least from us, we chose from, like, from 1 to 10. How much volume in a cup do you want? And it's only like the size of a shot glass.

Yeah.

And I chose seven. Cause it was like, you know, why not? Let's just like, let's go for the gold. And.

Basically, you know, that seven. I was like, you know, I've had no prior experience before this psychedelic stuff. So the seven. And then basically it took about 15 minutes to kick in. And you know, during that time, basically what you're doing is you're literally meditating. So you're breathing deep, you're breathing smooth, and you're just focusing on relaxing your body. And that's all I did. And like, I was completely relaxed. But about 15 minutes in, you. Yeah, you start feeling like your face gets a little tighter and. And you just start to feel sensations. Like your body gets a little looser, a little. I wouldn't say numb, but you. Would you. You basically get to A point where you're just, like. You're just relaxed. Yeah. And then you kind of know how to.

Like, if you. If you are good at meditating, you can definitely get into the zone pretty quick.

Cool. So then let's. Let's. Let's talk about, like, what you experienced then. So what, you know, so I understand your body kind of felt relaxed and you almost felt like. Almost like a numb feeling. Right. But, you know, the point of this is to almost see, like, visions and.

To, like, you get in your brain a little deeper.

Yeah. And find things that you might be digging out of your subconscious and stuff like that. So what was that experience like?

Yeah, so that. So, yeah, it was about 15 minutes in, I started feeling like that's where I felt the sensations. Like, my face got a little. I felt like it was. It sounds weird, but it felt like it was separating from the middle of my face out slowly. Like my skin was, like, almost crawling a little. I like weird stuff. So I was like, ooh, this feels cool.

So not, like, painful.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Not like. Not pain at all. But it was just like. Almost like, oh, my skin's moving. Yeah. What does that mean? But I just knew, like, okay, here it starts, you know, And I just basically sat back and kept breathing. That was the whole thing. I focused on the entire, like, you know, whatever it was till three in the morning.

So. Yeah. So it's interesting, right. Pretty close after that. I kept my eyes closed the whole time. But you would. At least I would see visions in my mind of just random things. So things. Like, I got a lot of connection with nature during. During it all. So, you know, I saw visions of animals. Like, literally, I saw a horse drinking at a lake and then a whale and then a monkey. Faces. I'm like, I don't know what these mean. And I don't. It wasn't like I've ever, like, I don't own a horse or really had a desire to ever have a horse, but I like horses. Yeah. But I don't know, like, you know.

How they have those books, right. That are like, what dreams mean. And you can, like, if you see, like your, for example, like, your teeth are falling out in a dream, it means you're afraid of getting old. And that's like. That's a legitimate, like, dream thing. I'm wondering. I'm wondering if you were to pick up one of those, like, books about, like, what do various dreams mean.

Yeah.

And kind of look up some of the visions you saw during that Experience. If some of them would make sense.

To you, I'm gonna do that. Yeah. Because I have a whole. Like, I wrote eight pages of just different things that I. That I saw. Like, I know I wrote them all down right after I. The next day. So other things. So nature was massive. Connection with nature was huge. Like, I had the freaking massive desire to just go into the ocean, but then at the same time, I had a massive desire to just, like, go deep into the woods and then just like, hike and then lay on a rock in the sun. And, like, it's all stuff I would normally like to do, but I was like, I want to go now.

And it's actually feel like since then, I've. Because I live in an urban area. I live in downtown San Diego in, like a condo, four or five stories, four stories up. And I'm just like, dude, I'm not connected with nature at all here. Like, there's just concrete everywhere, asphalt, trees that are within like a little block, you know, that stick out of the ground. I'm like, this isn't nature. Yeah. So I've lost touch of nature in that sense. But now that's why I'm actively actually looking for a house or in East County, San Diego, where there is the opportunity to get nature and green and. And you're close to the mountain. So that was a big thing, is connection to nature.

And the other big thing. And I have so many visions, but the other one was ego. Ego popped up massively. So Ego is the Enemy, the book by Ryan Holiday. I read that prior to this, and I highly recommend you guys getting that, listening. It's a good book. But it. In my head, I was just like, I need to reread that book right now. Because it was exactly what I was feeling. It was like, you're being too damn human. Stop being so fucking human, Joe. Yeah. Like, meaning you care too much about, like, what other people think about you. You care how much about what you look like or what you. What you, whatever, what you do throughout the day. But it's like, at the end of the day, let's be honest, we're freaking blips on the radar in this massive universe. And. And like, there's just so much stuff that's out of our control. And the last thing in the world in your. In your life you should ever worry about is, like, what your. What your friend thinks of you or whoever. Yeah. So, like, getting that. That was like, the thing in my head. The pressure was just like, yeah, why the hell do I Care so much. Like, really. And. And that gets you to detach from almost everything else. Yeah. Like, even your business, it's like, it doesn't need to be being the most profitable this year. It's like, dude, just chill. Like, it's not worth stressing out. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's a big realization that both you and I have come to recently.

Yeah.

Is. Is that whole factor of, like, why. You know, I think both of us at one point have had this sort of goal of we want to be more well known. We want people online to recognize us and know who we are and, you know, and give us, you know, show us appreciation for our contributions to the marketing world. You know what I mean?

Appreciate me. Yeah.

Look at me and love me, damn it. And I feel like that's kind of shedded away for both of us. Like, I really don't care if people even know what my business is anymore. You know, we do this podcast because we.

We love talking. Yeah. This is fun to do, you know, but. And it's fun to meet new people. Cool. And share experiences.

Yeah. Now with the. With the actual experience. You know, I've. I've never done anything hallucinogenic in my life, like, ever. And so, you know, when I think of something like ayahuasca or mushrooms or something like that, I think about what I see in the movies where there's like a little green dude just ran by in front of me. There's a unicorn pooping in the corner over there. He's pooping rainbows. Like, do you, like.

I wish.

Do you get visions that, like, feel real? Or does all of it feel, like, not quite, like, tangible? Like it's really there? You know what I mean?

I mean, so. Yeah. So from. I mean, this was the only experience I've had with psychedelics, which is ironic because I was reading in the Tools of Titans, Tim Ferriss new book, there's a whole section on psychedelics, and it literally rates the psychedelics on, like, a scale and ayahuasca. And I think straight DMT is at the very top. Yeah. I was like, oh, shit.

So you went straight to the top without knowing you're going straight to the top?

Yeah. Like, I thought shrooms would be more or something. Like, no, I didn't do my research, but I purposely, like, I do that with a lot of things in life. I just kind of jump in. I mean, I'm not going to jump into something I know is, like, going to kill me. I'm not going to do freaking Crazy. No, not doing that.

I hear heroin.

Really?

Great.

Yeah. Meth. Oh, lovely. I love my teeth. Your question was. Oh, okay. Yeah. Visions. So my visions felt not tangible because they felt like. It was like, say if you were meditating and you get a vision in meditation, it felt like that, but it felt like mine were a little bit more intense. Like they came on rapidly. So. But. But you are right, because I remember I would get a little physical, like, if I was holding something, I tried to disassociate my body. Really. That's what I was trying to do. Just release my body so I could just rely on, like, what's in my brain and then release whatever negative stuff comes up. But, yeah, I mean, like, a lot of visions came up, like, way more than if you're meditating. Cause meditating, you might just get, like, a single vision or another one. Like, slowly come through this one. It was like, boom, vision. Boom vision. Boom, boom, Boom, vision. You're just like, I want to remember all this. What does it mean? But you're not thinking that. Like, you don't want to get into that because then you kind of snap out of it. Yeah. And you can control that in a way, too, which is cool, because I thought you were, like, totally not in control. But for me, that wasn't the case. By the way, we totally didn't do a disclaimer or anything, but don't try this without direct supervision of a. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like we've made.

It very clear that you did it.

In a controlled environment and that you did it in a legal way and that you did it. Yeah.

You know, and we'll talk more about that, too. What you should do to, like, you know, vet people out. Yeah. But. Yeah, so.

You know, the visions came out strong and often, but they weren't super physical. Like, I couldn't open my eyes and see things. When I opened my eyes, I look around the room and then I feel more connected with everyone. Like, I felt more physical in that sense where I was more open and, like, it was like an immediate effect. I was like, oh, yeah, the ego thing. Yeah. I don't care what I look like, you know, like, I'm just going to look at all these people. I'm like, oh, cool, they're all relaxing too. Sweet. When you get back in the zone.

I'm just gonna take off all my clothes because I don't care if they see me naked. Well, no, wasn't like that.

Still control yourself. But that's what's cool is that you literally. If you wanted to just, like, open your eyes, if you wanted to go outside, you could do it and, like, look at the stars.

Yeah.

No one's gonna yell at you. Your body's. You're not gonna freak out and, like, fall. It's not like you're drunk. You are in control, and you can walk around, take it easy, obviously, because your eyes are, like, not stoked to see light, so everything's kind of darker and dimmed, you know, that's why you do it at night. But. Yeah. So what people say, though, is if you do it often, then you can kind of hone in on some of these visions that you might have seen the first time, and then you focus your intentions for the next time to see. Like, okay, let's try to connect these pieces a little bit. Yeah, we have some friends who have done that. And then that's when. That's why people do this for, like, a week.

Yeah.

Like, they'll go on a retreat and do it, like, seven ceremonies or more in a short period of time because they're really trying to just dig in deeper.

Yeah.

Because really, like, the whole time, you're, like, shedding away layers of an onion, and that's what it is. So, like, my. I literally just scratch the surface.

Yeah.

Yeah. So. But I will say, visions changed throughout the evening for me, and it was very weird. So I learned different things as the night went on. So first dose, I think, was the best because I saw the most. First dose lasted for about maybe two hours. Then about two hours in, they asked if you want to take a second dose, and I said yes. I took a four instead of a seven. So.

The four. Because I felt like I was like, okay, I don't need a massive dose again. So the four was cool, but it just completely relaxed me. I didn't see any visions after that, and I did the same thing. So I felt like, okay, maybe I tapped out my brain for the evening, but I felt amazing. Like, I felt like I was, like, the most relaxed ever. And then that's where I was kind of, like, really, like, processing what I saw beforehand.

Yeah.

Still meditating. So I'm still trying to clear my mind, but.

I had the option to take a third dose. I said no, because I'm like. Because by this time, I was getting a little nauseous because, like, I didn't learn this till a little later on, but really at 30 minutes into it, like, after you take the dose, you do get pretty nauseous. Like, you fight. It's Kind of like if you're drunk and you're kind of got the, you know, you gotta throw up, you kind of get that same feeling. So you kind of. You keep it down for as long as you can. If it's after like 30 minutes and the effects already going, then just release it, you know, and you could go to the bathroom or whatever. It's super cool. I should have done that. I didn't really know that. Yeah. But I would have felt a lot better.

So you, you. So after you kind of release it.

Yeah.

Once you puke it up.

Yeah.

Then. Then you still have the effects.

Oh yeah.

But your stomach doesn't hurt anymore.

You feel better. Yeah. I'm not going to say you're perfect. I mean, totally depends differently because I felt different than like the other couple of guys I went with compared to other people. Like, I think I had some of the biggest effects out of everyone in the whole room.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because even other people, randomly, people that didn't know me were like, dude, you were into it. Like you were zoned in. I was like, yeah, I know. I wanted to make the most of it.

So I have two last questions and we can wrap this up. Um, so first of all, how. What sort of impact has this had? What had this, this whole experience. How would you say it's impacted your business? How would you say it has impacted your life in general?

So business and life really the same thing is this is where I was leading that story actually into is it taught me to slow down and not react just like fast, fast, fast. Like got to do everything right now because that's my. Ironically, I'm kind of experiencing that now in my brain. So this is actually checking myself currently. But I see what you did there.

But I tendency have it. Like I just want to get stuff moving. I feel like I'm high activator in that sense. But sometimes it stresses me out, so it screws myself. And then you don't follow through with everything, obviously. So this taught me to slow down, take a moment, reprioritize and then act. Don't take all day, but like take enough time to make a wise decision.

It's weird how this idea came around, but this is how it just works for me and how I'm assuming it works for an ayahuasca and other people. But like, so in the evening after everyone was done with their, with their feelings, I felt like the effects were coming down. It's like 3:00am when you, when all the food gets broken out, everybody's like, because it's like a potluck, and people made really good food. I'm like, yes, I get to eat. Haven't eaten, like, 12 or, you know, almost. Yeah. More than 12 hours. So I scarf a bunch of food down, because that's smart on an empty stomach and stuff that I've never had in my stomach before.

Yeah.

So scarfed a bunch of food. It wasn't, like, dirty food. It was all clean, organic, you know, that's good stuff. But I felt great. Felt great. And then all of a sudden, like, I was like, oh, man. Got really tired. And then someone. I was just sitting down, someone called my name, and I turned to the left, like, super fast. Like, I spun my head around, and immediately, right when I did that, my head just went like. Like, I got the major spins. Like, you assume you're, like, really drunk, you know, but, like, major spins where I was like, oh, my God, what just happened to my head? Yeah. So then I basically had to put my hands on my head and kind of just like, chill out for. I could have stayed there all night doing that. But so immediately in my head, I'm like, whoa, you react way too fast to things like. Like. And that was. It was a weird connection. But literally, that. That took the rest of the evening to wear off. Like, it took me, like, three more hours. And it was weird because I kind of got, like, more. I don't know. It's just like, you got a little pukey at the end of the night. I saw visions that were, like, not as happy. They got, like, a little bit more negative at night. And I think it was. And literally, I think it all started from that spin thing and reacting so fast, so it left an impact. I'm not saying negative visions, like, but it was literally, like, when I was trying to lay down, felt like I had the spins again. Kind of like if you were really drunk or something, it's kind of hard to go to sleep, you know, if you're getting the spins. And. And I would get kind of flashes of, like, just weird. That's when I did get more of the psychedelic. Like, I would see patterns, but they would be in, like, weird colors. So, like, if I close my eyes, I wouldn't really be able to fall asleep. And it's like four in the morning at this point, and I'm like, I need to go to sleep. So. But I eventually took a little while, but I got to sleep, and it was fine. So you wake up the next morning, and literally, you feel fresh. Like, we Woke up at 8. So we had, like, four hours of sleep. You don't have a hangover feel or any kind of grogginess. Like, literally, I hopped up, up out of a freaking sleeping bag, laying on a rock all night, and I felt amazing. I was like, oh, cool. Yeah. But, yeah, back to, like, personal life, business slowing down. And the big thing with personal life is, like, connected, closer to people. Anyone. People in nature. Like, seriously, those are the two things. And then it's like, not being so closed off. And in, like, another podcast, another thing that did pop up is, like, be first to, like, say hi to people and to initiate conversation or anything because. Or think of others. Like, that's all stuff that really popped out of this experience. And it's a lot of the stuff. We've written our book, too.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

In other podcasts. So. Very cool. It's really cool. Yeah.

So then you mentioned earlier that you would talk for a minute about, you know, vetting it out and finding it. And I know it's not always the easiest thing to find. We kind of talked about this before we started recording because there's no. Like, you can't just go to a website and find somebody.

I mean, you might, but I don't know if I don't trust them.

But, you know, if somebody was interested in experiencing this, what advice would you give them?

I would say, yeah, personally, you know, it was all word of mouth through friends that I trusted, so that was how I found it. That's. And I know multiple people have done it from other sources, so literally, I would seek out who's someone. Like those people.

Find the most spiritual friend that you have and ask if they know someone.

Who'S the hippie, dippiest, who's really into this stuff. I mean, seriously, that's how I guarantee they're gonna know someone. Yeah.

Or walk into one of those psychedelic bookstores where they sell magic crystals and stuff like that.

Totally.

They'll probably be able to point you.

In the right direction, I almost guarantee it. And, like, what. And once you find a name, if it's local, like in the US or wherever you live, vet them out, like, Google. Search them. Search them left and up and down, left and right. Ask all your friends if they know that person. Like, so. And that's what I did. And that's when I learned, like, okay, this guy's legit. You know, he's been around.

Now, you said that you can't actually, like, mention the person's name and that kind of stuff. And I'm just curious, like, why is that?

That was something I was asked by him and also the people that referred me to him. I don't know why. Actually, I've wondered the same because. But. But this whole thing is like. And there's a thing is not calling it ayahuasca when you talk about it, which is we. I don't. I don't know if it's a legal thing or. I have no clue. I've just never asked.

Yeah.

I've just been told. I'm like, okay. Just like, always call it a tea ceremony. That's. That's like. So if you want to look up tea ceremony, you're probably also obviously going to see like, English tea ceremony. Japanese. No, look up like Amazon tea ceremony or Iowa, you know. But that's kind of like. That might be another term you look for.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then how would you vet them out? Just same thing, word of mouth.

Word of mouth, I think is huge. And then obviously any kind of thing you could find online about, uh, that's looking up tea ceremony San Diego. I don't think they're on Yelp, so I don't think. Yeah. So you have Japanese tea ceremony classes. Yeah.

So I would look, here's Woo Woe tea ceremony.

I mean, but either way, yeah, I would vet them out literally just by doing research on. I would look up the specific. Like a shaman. Usually they're called shamans, the people who actually administer this. There's always one person, typically, who is the person who. Because it's a mixture of. Not just tea, but it's a mixture of. Of like chanting. But the chanting is all done in.

Like, it's some South American language. Like, you know, it's Amazon. You know, you don't understand it, but it's completely authentic to. To that. So that's why I said it's like a big ceremonial thing. When I did it, it had sound healing too. So there were like drums involved in different instruments. And it was actually more Native American focused, which was really cool because it brought in. So it wasn't obviously very true to the Amazon, but it was very Native American focus. So it was still very spiritual. So it was literally like they were kind of going around with the sage and stuff.

Yeah.

Which just by itself, that's badass. Like, I would. I would have paid just to do that. But instead it was like a two for one. So I was like, sweet. Matt actually found a Google Ad. See Soul Quest. Ayahuasca Church of Mother Earth.

No, the site is ayahuascachurches.org There you go.

So I guess they are. I mean you can look. I have no clue what those guys are all about, but yeah, I mean so yeah, look up ayahuascachurches.org Google them up. And it looks like. Yeah, they run three day events, two night retreats. So that sounds about. It's exactly what I did. I only did one night but I.

Have no idea where the located.

Vine only detox. So that's not actually the whole thing. If it's vine only, they're not getting psychedelics.

Interesting.

So the thing is the vine is not psychedelic but the leaf is. That's why you combine the two. I don't know exactly why, like what's in the vine? I forget. But either way. And I would, I would. Peru is also a big place that people go for a retreat and I was a retreat.

I've heard good stories and I've heard bad, not bad stories but I've heard that there are like. It's becoming more of a business down there because of the popularity of this. So people are like traveling down. So obviously it's a money grab. These people like some. You know, I think the things you want to look for. We're probably a little long in time now.

Yes.

The thing to I look forward is not having too many people at these things. If you get over like 10, 15, it would be max in a group because you got to think you want that shaman to give you some personal attention and. And make sure you have people like someone. Like if there are more people than like 10, ideally you want more like six.

Yeah.

I've heard mine wasn't that small. But then you want chauffeurs around something that feels like they're watching over you. Yeah. So like if something happens or whatever, which I don't know what could happen other than like puking all over everything. Like seriously. That's the last thing I think it's. But obviously you never know. Not a doctor, don't quote me. But yeah, I would look for those things. Cool. And make sure you're not getting ripped off. That's all.

Yeah, very cool.

But yeah, so I would explore more with. I think YouTube has a documentary called Ayahuasca that actually was pretty informative. I think it was free.

So would you do it again?

Yes.

Yeah.

Would you?

I jury still out.

Yeah, no, I would definitely like to.

And.

And you know, maybe once a year or something because yeah, I mean I. There's a lot of stuff I can work with so I want to keep peeling that onion, man. Cool. Cool.

Well, thanks for sharing your experience.

Cat's out of the bag now. Well, I don't think my mom even knows about this. I'm probably tell her before she listens to to the episode.

Yeah, I'm going to email her the episode right after this.

Look what your son did. Oh, she'll be fine.

All righty.

All right, well, cool.

Let's go ahead and wrap this one up.

And thank you for listening, y'. All.

More good episodes on the way. Talk to you soon.

Bye.

Hey, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Now, if you don't know already, myself and my partner, Joe Fear, every single week, we put together this killer weekly newsletter that's completely free. If you go to the weekly profit.com you can get on this weekly newsletter. And what we do with this newsletter is we scour the Internet. We read every piece of content, listen to blog posts, check out new software and tools, and we distill down the best of the best into a weekly newsletter and deliver it directly to your inbox every single week. So head over to the weekly profit.com and make sure you're signed up to receive that weekly newsletter. You're going to love it. Thanks so much again for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. We'll see you in the next one.