Therapy Sessions 👥 Outsourcing The Scaling Of Your Business

Boom.

Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Yo, my name is Matt Wolf. I'm here with my biz bro, Joe Fear.

Oh, that's a good one.

I like that biz bro. Should we just start calling each other biz Bros? Biz bro Skis less formal than business partners.

Yeah, we should have. We should have shirts. Yeah, we go to conferences. We're like, he's a biz bro. I'm a biz bro.

Should we get, like, those little heart necklaces that are broken? On one side it says biz, and the other side says bro. And then when we see together, we can put the necklace together and be like biz bros for life.

And I'm more the bro of the two, so I'd probably have the bro one. You'd have the biz guy.

What makes you more bro than me?

Well, that's like a San Diego. I mean, you know this, but, you know, it's like I used to have, like, a lifted Ford Ranger truck with, like, a bar in the front. We like to off road in the desert and, like, pause ruckus. And in San Diego, it's like, oh, that guy's such a bro.

You're telling this to the guy whose first two trucks were Ford Rangers. Sold one of his Ford Rangers for a Titan and then took the Titan, exchanged out the exhaust, put on a new filter, changed out the tires, tinted the windows, and east countied it out.

All right, so yeah, in east county said San Diego thing. Most people. It's funny, we have a lot of friends that have moved to San Diego who are from whatever, wherever part of the world, and they all live by the coast. They're like, oh, like our buddy Brad Costanto, he's like, boom. Gotta be by the ocean. And all these other people are by the coast. And I'm just like, we're like East County. And everybody's like, why do you live, like, in the desert, man? I'm like, I don't know.

Takes us 20 minutes to get downtown.

It's away from people, and it's still in San Diego. It's amazing. It's a perfect combo.

You just don't know about it.

It takes 20 minutes to get anywhere in San Diego. You want to go downtown, 20 minutes. You want to go to La Jolla, 20 minutes.

You want to Go to TJ Mexico, 20 minutes. If you want to go to the desert, not 20 minutes, but pretty close to 40 minutes.

But, like, going anywhere, like the beaches or downtown, where, like, everybody wants to go when they come to San Diego. Yeah, it's 20 minutes or a $20 Uber ride.

It's. Yeah. So that's just a side tangent to say that east county is pretty damn cool. For all those people from San Diego that make fun of east county, come check it out someday. Come visit us at our houses.

Although you do wear way more trucker caps than I do.

Yeah, that's. That's more surfer. I feel like that's more Encinitas of me. More coast vibes and very East County.

But if you have to, like, flip the bill up for it to be.

Easy, I do not do that. I've never done that.

Anyway, so we are doing another duet today. Yeah, we're doing another therapy session. I think we just started calling them therapy sessions instead of duets.

This is what we were saying after we recorded the last one is like, it just feels good to just talk. And I don't know, you and I, like, we just can't shut up. And this is like, literally, this thing will probably end with a knock on the door from Matt's wife going, dinner's ready.

That's probably very true.

And then that's my cue to leave without causing too much of a ruckus and saying hi to all his kids and, you know, getting hugs or whatever.

But, no, I mean, we. We talk about this all the time, but the podcasting is our absolute favorite thing that we do in our business. We love meeting with people. We love networking. We love having the conversations. We love going deep. We love getting new ins. Like, there's just so much we love about podcasting. And one thing that every time we do it, we go, that was really cool. We need to do that more often. It's these duet episodes. Every single time we do a duet episode, we're like, that was, like, therapeutic. We just unloaded a bunch of stuff that we didn't even know was really circulating in our brain and talked about a lot of stuff that we haven't talked to our audience about yet. And I really enjoyed that. That was, like therapy to me. And so you know what? We're making a conscious effort to do more of these therapy sessions.

Therapy session. Or why pay a therapist if you just have this. This is great. It's actually a perfect. We were talking about it. Yeah, you hit record, and, like, you turn into. You're like, whatever. I just. I'M just going to let it out. I don't care where it's going to go. And then you realize thousands of people are listening. You're like, oh, man. Yeah, crazy. But it works.

Well, I won't let them listen to the portion before we hit record.

Whoa. Because I was talking about that thing that no one knows about you.

No, I'm not.

Not that.

I'm talking about the fact that we have you taking bong hits on recording.

Not really. We don't have a bong.

No, we do not. Oh, geez. Shit. What were we going to talk about, though? We had kind of a quick idea because we don't want to get too scripted with these, but have a concept. Yeah.

So we were just talking with.

I'm seriously asking you, what were we?

Well, we just got off this recording with.

Yeah, that's right.

With Joss from his podcast. And on the. On that podcast, we started to kind of. I actually really liked being interviewed on his podcast because he sort of. Most people want to get tactical and in the weeds and talk about the traffic strategies and stuff, and we love talking about that as well. I mean, we nerd out about that just as much. But I really love it when we actually start getting into those conversations about, like, what makes us tick and the. The mental game and the why, the way we are. The way we are. And Joss kind of started to go down some of those rabbit holes a little bit with us, and so I love it when shows do that. And so after we get off it, we're like, let's kind of stay in that vein. Let's kind of continue the conversation that we were having with him, but let's make a duet episode for our own show.

Yeah.

And he.

And specifically, like, the stuff he was asking about is, like, revenue. He's asking about revenue. He's asking about our expenses, our overhead, our kind of what we see this company evolving into from where it is now. And, like, we talked about all this stuff that wasn't our typical, hey, how do you drive traffic? And how do you do your podcast? Even though we talked about that, it was kind of all over the place. But it really. It. It actually got us thinking, because we were rattling everything out that he was. He was asking. But then I was like, you know what? Yeah. We've been at this for 12 years, Matt and I, not completely as a partner, as partners the whole time, but a lot of the times. And we built this business in a way that it suits our lifestyle. It suits what we actually want in life, which is to have fun, be secure, but also just. Just, you know, give value. We always want to experiment and then have an outlet, something like a podcast. Like, this is our outlet, is one of them right now. And. And we were looking at this, and, you know, we've been told that our business currently, as it sits, should be, like, seven times more revenue. We should be making seven times more revenue or more in a different space, like real estate. Few people have told us this, and we've kicked ourself in the past. We're like, damn it, why aren't we making more money with the work that we're right now? We're so damn smart. We have this network, we have this podcast, you know, these listeners, all this stuff. And, you know, we hear that, and we're like, you know what? It's all right, because throughout this whole process, we're building this network, this thing has this compounded effect, and it almost feels like the less we try to grow that network now, it's just give more, give more, you know, keep doing what we're doing in business to make money, too. It just compounds.

Yeah. And, you know, Joss was asking, too, about, like, a safety net. So, you know, he asked what sort of things we value, and I was telling him one of the things that I really value is security, you know, especially, like, financial security. And he asked me, do you have, like, a safety net? You have, like, three months saved up in the bank, six months worth of living expenses. And I went, no. Our safety net is essentially our network. Right. Because we know that if you took our mailing list away, you turned off our payment processors, you took everything away that we currently have in business, but we still had our network. We still knew the people that we knew and still had the friendships and the bonds that we've sort of cultivated over the years. If we still had those, we can get back on our feet. We know we have people that we can go stay at their house for a little bit if we need to. We know we have people that can, you know, if we decide to go create a new product and start from scratch to launch it, people that would get behind us and be affiliates of it and drive the first bits of traffic totally. We know the people that if, you know, we needed to set up, like, some Facebook ads to drive a lot of traffic really quick, we know the people that we can talk to that would say, here, go set it up like this.

A prime example of that is Andy Hasong. He's an amazing JV broker. He's been on the show. And definitely, if you're looking. Looking for some dude to roundup affiliates for you, go seek him out. He gets our stamp of approval for sure. He. I've been chatting with him. But we're actually actively looking to round up affiliates for our traffic course, the perpetual audience growth course that you can find@evergreenprofits.com traffic and. No, but seriously, we're trying to bring in more affiliates within our network to promote that course. And I think you posted something, Matt, back in. This was in November that you posted this thing. We're like, hey, we're really good affiliates, like, for other products, but we've never actually asked folks to promote us before. And you posted that in some, I think, on your page. And a bunch of people are, you know, like, oh, yeah, of course. You know, we'll help you out or talk to this person, whatever. Andy was like, dude, with your clout and the network you guys have built and the reputations you guys have and the value you guys give, you have so many people that would just bend over backwards to support you or believe in what you're teaching. And he's like, if you just list out something like 30 people in your own network, and he was like, go deep. Don't go wide. Like, look in your phone book or look at your messages on Facebook and then, you know, create some good stats, actually have a good product, all that stuff. We check all the boxes there, put the offer in front of him. Just reach out and be cool. And he's like, you won't ever have to hire anybody for this. You won't even have to go wide because you. You'll probably make way more than enough money just with your own handful of people in your network.

Yeah. And that's really it. Like, the network is everything. And you want to know a little hack to grow your network really, really, really fast. I do. I do. I do start a podcast. I'm not gonna get on the whole podcast rabbit hole right now.

But it's so obvious, Matt.

But that is literally how we've managed to grow our network. I mean, there's other stuff involved. There is serendipitous moments where people introduced us to other people.

Doesn't that happen to everybody at the right time, if you notice it?

Ye. But the way that we've forcefully grown our network, essentially in a good way.

You have to put yourself out there, Matt.

We've forcefully grown our network by podcasting and bringing people on. So this episode is doing nothing to help our network. Right now. Why are we even doing this right now? Horrible waste of time.

Jesus. Why are you even listening? Please stop. Stop. No, don't take the earphones off. Keep em in. Keep them in. Keep listening, please. For the love of God.

Come on, Steve. Listen, Steve.

Julie, Please, please, keep me in there. Kevin. I'm watching you, Bob. My eyes are on you, Steve. All right, all right. Jam, jam.

You put the headphones back in, Jerry.

Jesus, we're scaring too. Way too many people. Okay.

Anyway.

There'S like six people right now that are legitimately freaking out because they just started to pull off their headphones.

You got the camera behind your shoulder. Right, your shoulder, you know? So, yeah, network podcast starting. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Use the podcast.

Yeah. And so going back to Joss in this podcast that we did, when it goes live, we'll put it in the show notes here for this episode. But he. Yeah, the whole security. So at this age, you know, Matt, you have a couple kids. We both have mortgages, we both have wives. We have some shit on the line, to say the least, but we would still take a risk.

Is your wife on the line?

You know what? Putting everything on the line. That confident? No, not only confident, because we're backing up by this badass foundation that we have.

Yeah.

And a lot of the guests that have been the podcast. I mean, we're not blowing smoke when we say most of those we could just call up right now and they would do something for us, like a favor if we're in a pinch.

It's true.

Like 100%. I am so confident that's the case and that. And this isn't a podcast rant, but now it's circling back to be one start damn podcast and just be. Or it's just be cool people.

Just.

Just be. Like, for a lot of years, we didn't have a podcast, but we were growing the network. Like on that podcast, we were saying from day one in marketing, we. We actually got coached. The first coaching course was Alex Jeffries and AJ And I think we'll have him on the show soon. He's in San Diego. I've been in talks with him. But we met Josh Bartlett of Thrive Cart back in this forum in this coaching group when we first started, back in, what, 08 or so?

Something like that?

07, I think, even. And we grew that network from day one. That was an intention. We're like, okay, there were 10 people in there that we were, like, tight with. Like, we met up in Vegas for, I think, this conference and. And Then we've kept in touch for, over the years, met each other along the way. And it's like that network kind of just started to, hey, do you know this guy? You should meet this person. You should. Like, this guy wants to hire you for this thing. Yeah, like, and it just expanded like freaking rapid fire up until where we're at now. And yeah, I mean, it's. Network's crazy, man.

Yeah, no, it's true. And you know, the most recent network can mostly be traced back to podcasts and then getting connected from guests on our podcast with other people who would be great guests for our podcast. And it's sort of like this good pyramid scheme of growing our network.

And that's, I guess that's a roundabout way to saying, like as we get older, like here, or even if something failed when we were 50 something, our network's going to be even way more compounded at that point. Way more compounded. And then that's just more of a quote unquote security blanket. You can think about it that way. It's almost like the more experience and the deep you're in the shit, the more stuff you have on the line, wife and all if you have to. No, that's not on the line. But like it's, it's. The more you build over time, the easier it should be to recover. It's probably why, like Trump has, you know, gone bankrupt and turned it around. I don't know, actually.

I mean, you've got, you've got network, but you've got knowledge that's gained over time. It's like if everything was shut down, nobody could take the experience I have out of my brain of setting up Google Ads, Facebook ads, creating content like.

Or the people around you that trust you and like, you.

Yeah, I mean, you've got this like sort of accumulated knowledge and you've got this accumulated network and then nobody can take those away from you.

And strategy, too is a big thing. You know, strategy, if it's maybe not tactics, but if you learn some really solid, proven strategies like psychology, selling, marketing, copywriting, persuasion, those are things that, that are in this worth that's like built so ingrained in you that no one can take that from you. Yeah, actually I watched the other, so the Fyre Festival, you know, documentary that was on Netflix or it's just called Fire. Matt told me to watch that one. I watched it. My wife and I, Heather, were just like, holy crap. But then last night we watched the other Fire one. Fire. Fraud, Fraud. And holy crap. That was Amazing for the one watching both, but this one I was. There was something like, you know, when the guy went to jail. Sorry, spoiler alert. Guy's a fraud.

Title. Didn't give it away. Fire fraud. But the guy is in jail, like, teaching people how to just think and market. And, like, you know, he's spending his six years or so in prison, like, and he still can't give up the fact that he's got this, like, strategy brain.

Mm.

He's probably really fucking smart, but he's just applying it in a really shitty way.

That's true.

But you can't stop that.

Yeah.

So literally, he's fucking thrown in this fricking concrete box, and they still can't stop his crazy brain. And they even said when he's out of prison, you know, a trickster, a fraudster is always a fraudster. Like, you can't get it out.

Hope he'll figure out his next scheme.

Yeah. You'll hear in the news again in about seven years.

Figure out how to justify it being a good idea and not unethical and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

But it was interesting to watch those two documentaries side by side because, like, one of them kind of made the guy out to be like, yeah, he's not that bad of a guy. He just made some stupid decisions. The other one is like, no, this guy's a fucking fraud. This guy's just been going around scamming people.

It was. It was huge. He told me that one of the company, Fuck Cherry.

Yeah.

Because they made the other documentary or heavily produced it. Yeah, I think it was. So it was kind of favorable, not horrible. And then the one on Hulu was just, like, going for. For the Jugular and, like, Street Truth. But it's good to see them both.

Yeah.

Just interesting. I would probably go the order, would go do the Netflix one first and then do Hulu, because it's like, introduce you to this concept. A little bit of niceties. Like, all right, now let's open the book. You get to the real meat. Yeah.

I think the Hulu one actually came out first. Like, it came out like, the night before. Because Hulu was trying to screw over Netflix. Netflix. Like, they knew which day theirs was going to come out, so they went and were like, all right, fuck Netflix. Let's release ours the day before.

Yeah. I would say start with Netflix first that one, and then go Hulu.

Yeah.

And then you'll get a full picture of what happened. Yeah, but that's all in all to say, like, dude, that you can't take away these qualities that you build up. I guess your network can fall away if you're like someone like a Louis CK or something.

Yeah. But even, even with him, I don't really feel like his really close friends, his like, tight knit group abandoned him. Like, you know, you listen to like the Joe Rogan podcast and some of his friends have come on the Joe Rogan podcast and a lot of them are actually defending him. They're like, yeah, he made some really bad decisions, but okay, I'll refrain this into.

If you become a mass murderer. Yeah, that's probably not. Most people aren't gonna have your back. Some people will.

Unless you create, like a cult.

No. Jesus.

To be a mass murderer. Like, you got the, like the Manson guy. Right? He got other people to go do it for him.

There you go. You just proved me wrong again. All right. Can't take it away. Whatever network you want to build.

But that's just. Yeah.

I don't know.

It's just. It got us thinking that podcast with Joss, that, the security thing. Because we've thought about that before and yeah, as entrepreneurs inherently, we're going to take more risks. It's just kind of in our DNA. But then I've never thought of a. The way that like, yeah, we should be ideally, quote unquote, making more money, but it really doesn't matter if we're building this lifestyle that we already live.

Yeah. This sort of like, tug of war going on, at least in my brain, of like, lifestyle business versus grow something impactful.

Right. I think.

And I don't know if you ever get this is. I haven't. We didn't bring any of this up before the call or anything, but, like, I have this like, tug of war that's going in my brain of like, man, I really, really want this, like, lifestyle business. I want to, like, work as little as possible, spend time with the family, create experiences, spend way more time having fun than I spend working. Right. I've got that kind of going on all the time. Like, just lifestyle business, make enough to do what you need. And then this other side of me going, yeah, but don't you want something that's huge, that employs a lot of people that can make an impact on the world that, like, you know, changes everything. And there's, there's this always this, this kind of thing going on. This hand motion does not look good, but nobody can see me. I'm doing a tug of war with my hands by myself.

But anyway, so like, in my brain it's like, fuck, I wanna, I wanna build something that's like just easy and provides the, the lifestyle and the money I need. And then this other side of me is like, but you can make something amazing, you could make something huge. You can make something great that like changes the lives of millions and you know, and it's like how. Fuck. Which, like, which voice do I give in to?

I have the solution for you, by the way. Dan Ryan got that visual, don't worry.

Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure he'll point.

Out that visual that Dan, confirm with us that you got that visual, please. Once you hear this episode, a one.

Man tug of war.

I think in between that tug of war is.

Matt for one. But no, the solution I feel like is you can have a life or we can have a lifestyle business where we make as much money as we want and that's involving things like real estate in the future where we're headed as well, along with some other places, our things and investments. But we give back. There's a percentage that we can give back. We don't have to employ the people, but we can make a massive freaking impact in the process. So it's a perfect balance where, yeah, let's lifestyle the shit out of this lifetime. Yeah, I don't want to stop having fun. I don't want to stop being tied down to one place at a, you know, every day kind of thing, you know, unless that's your thing, then fuck it, do it, you know. But if you don't want to be.

That person, really just to play devil's out advocate a little bit, I'm not disagreeing, just playing devil's advocate. To be able to provide the funds to make a bigger impact in those other places, doesn't that mean working harder and being more willing to pull yourself out of the lifestyle sort of business so that you can make enough to not only provide for yourself and your family, but to provide for others.

Yeah. So that it like I like your hand gestures.

I'm very, very animated at the moment. But you know, you've got, I hear you. These two sides of like the lifestyle business versus like make more, make more, make something bigger, make an impact. I feel like those are sort of opposing forces that I have a hard time doing.

I have another answer for you or suggestion. We'll say this isn't a. Nothing is concrete, you know.

Good. I'm glad I brought my therapist with me.

Yeah, well, this is good. You know, you're asking the right guy at least. So.

No, you. You do what we're doing currently. I think our business actually has evolved into an interesting place where I think we're doing exactly what you're saying is necessary, which is it's grown bigger than the two of us and maybe a contractor here and there when we need them.

It's no, let's build this team that we can trust. Let's have an ops manager and Shannon and have some other very key people on our staff to get our backs, to answer the emails and to do these promotions, write the show notes, our podcast, run all the. In the company that we can't possibly do in the 24 hours a day. And then strategic partnerships. Things like what we're starting to do now with some people will not save.

That for another episode.

Yeah, but the idea is to partner with people who are really good at things that you're not as good in.

Yeah.

Things like sales for us and copywriting are a couple of things that we know we aren't the best in.

Yeah.

And so we do that. Strategic partnerships. I mean, dude, with that, you can blow up any kind of business or you can go into a different niche. Like, we were told we're 7x more valuable and say real estate niche or something like that. Guess what? You apply it over there, instantly you're seven times more, ideally. And now you have seven times more of the impact. Or maybe more, actually.

Yeah, no, I mean, that really is the way to do it, is grow something bigger, but systematize and make processes. Here, let's. Here's something else we can therapize on.

It's good. That's good.

Is therapizing a word?

No, I'm just kind of thinking now. It's just funny because the rapping. Rapping. No, I was gonna say really quick.

Is that rapists for 1000 there? It's therapists.

Did you ever see Celebrity Jeopardy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it just finally hit.

Nah, I was just thinking, like, we never have any concept of. Of what? Once he hit that record button, like, none of this shit's planned. It's just. It blows me away every time.

How?

No, this is literally a therapy session. We talk about surface level shit, and then the deeper we start talking, the deeper the conversations go.

All right, I don't want to stop you. We're going to ask. You were going to therapize on one more thing.

So what I was going to say is one thing I've never totally felt in my business, and I don't know, you may have felt this I've never felt like I've been in a point with my business where my business grows without me, like, other people are there growing the business. It's always been my hands getting dirty to make sure the growth happens.

Yeah.

And every time I've gone and hired an agency or brought on something, someone to take over a role that I was filling, that was like a scaling role. And so let me sort of clarify a little bit. A role that would, like, help scale the business would be somebody who's really good at Facebook ads that can slowly optimize and then crank up the volume and scale the ad spend so the business scales. Or somebody that's, like, really focused on landing pages and, like, list growth and conversion optimization. Those types of people can really help scale your business.

I've always been the person in almost every business I've operated in to be the scale guy, to operate in those positions where when these things happen, the business grows. And then I've always put other people in these maintenance roles. So, okay, cool. You make sure the Facebook ads just keep running. You make sure that you're mailing the list. You make sure you're responding to support. They've always been like these maintenance roles that have never really scaled the business. They've always been that maintenance place. And so I feel like one of the limiting beliefs that I have is that I need my hands involved for a business to actually grow. And I think even in our business right now, we don't really have team members in our business. You know, Shannon excluded. I consider Shannon kind of like almost like borderline in the ownership group of people that are helping, thinking of new ways to grow the business.

She will be one day.

But, like, outside of that sort of core three, there's nobody in our business that's doing things on a daily basis to make sure there's more sales happening today than what happened yesterday. That role falls on us.

I follow you like, you're the one.

Going out getting people to be affiliates. You're the one going out saying, hey, can we get on your podcast? Or, hey, do you want to be on my podcast? I'm the one going in and getting Facebook ads and ramping up volume and optimizing the landing pages to make sure that the traffic we are getting is converting better. All the things that make our business scale and be bigger, a little bit bigger today than it was yesterday are the things that we do.

So I have some ideas on that. There was something that you were saying. Crap. You didn't call them levers. But there was, like, specific things. Oh, the growth or the scaling and the maintenance things.

Yeah. We've always had maintenance team. We've never had scaling.

I follow you. And this is interesting because we're literally masterminding our business right now in front of you. This is really cool.

This is a legit thing that's been spinning in my head, and we're talking about it for the first time right here.

And this is just ideas initially have is two things. Is we have to identify what those maintenance tasks are and things that we know will be okay as maintenance tasks. Okay, let's fill those by other people or automate them or.

And I feel like that's the part we've been good at. We've been good at filling the maintenance roles, so.

Yeah, I know. And I figured that. I just want to clarify that that's like, one thing. First thing is identify and solve them and then the scaling things. What I'm thinking there is pretty much what we're doing again is we're. You can either hire or you can partner with specialized experts, specialized people in those roles. So for some of these growth roles that we have, things like JVs, affiliates, sales copy, emails, all that stuff, we're actively partnering with a group of folks that are actually going to help us with something like that or something in that space. So those are specialized folks who are doing that, and that shores up a massive amount that we could scale with.

Yeah, no, I agree. I think the answer really is this path that we are traveling down. I think that's been in my head, just kind of looking in retrospect. That is how things have always operated.

It has. I agree 100%.

The closest I've come was when I was running Learn to Blog. Bradley and I hired Kurt Molly to run our Facebook ads. And he legitimately, like, you know, he would give me, like, a report every week of how we were doing. And I was actually seeing the work that he was doing make us more and more and more sales over time.

Yeah.

There was other issues there. Like, we didn't have any sort of funnel that wasn't deep enough, so it was hard to, like, ROI on that spend and stuff.

Well, you had your webinar, right? And, like, you crushed that. Every freaking week.

Every day. Yeah, yeah. It was a daily webinar.

Wait, you were on a webinar every single day?

Automated. We did a live month. Once a month, we did a live webinar. And then once a week or every day, we had the automated webinar going.

Yeah.

And Then whenever a live webinar would outperform our previous, like, control, we'd swap that out as the automated webinar.

Got it. Okay, so a new one every month.

Yeah, so. But Kurt really helped us scale there. But as far as, like, spend more money on traffic without going too far into the red to get back into the green or back into the black. But anyway, that's kind of the only sort of experience I've ever had with there's other people working around me that are actively making sure the business is growing. That's not an owner of the business. But I think, you know, some of the stuff that we're talking about doing might as well just let a little bit of the cat out of the bag. But, you know, we're going to be partnering with other people, as we've sort of alluded to quite a bit, to handle the parts of our business that we're not that great at. So actually bringing on not like contract team members, but actual business partners that can help with the sales side of things, like have, that have phone teams that are amazing copywriters, that have people who write email on their team and partnering with those people that are actively focused on scaling the business. Because I feel like whenever we hire agencies, it's tough.

Well, that's why I didn't see agencies in there. I don't think that's, that's.

I don't think agencies are going to really be focused on scaling you either. I mean, they are, they do have a benefit to scale you. Right. Because most agencies are, are performance based. So their fee goes up the more traffic they send you or the more ad spend they work on for you or whatever. But the problem I've always had with agencies is we're one of 20 with them. And I don't feel like they're sitting around actively going, okay, what new technique can I test? No, they're, they're looking at like all the data they have and going, okay, on average, this is working the best. So let's do this with this account as well. And they're kind of just like looking across the, their whole portfolio of clients and seeing what's working for the most part for most people and then installing that in their other clients. Where and when I would check in on like those types of agencies and be like, hey, how we doing with our ad spend? They'd be like, oh, I don't know, let me check. Like, they're not on top of just your numbers. Yeah, right. So that's why I think when you run, like, I'm not a huge fan of agencies for buying traffic for the most part. Sure. For that reason. But, you know, partnering, they have a real stake in the game. They have a real reason to grow it and scale it and get in there and test new things. You know, agencies aren't going to go and be like, oh, I have a cool new experiment I want to test. Let's go test it on this. They're gonna, they're gonna basically, they just. Basically, for my experience, most of them just kind of wait until we check in with them.

And that's where agencies. Yeah, that would not be my first pick at all. Is a specialized person who is a contractor, but is specialized in maybe working with you and maybe a couple others, max. Because usually those folks have an interest to at least to basically give you a new system that works, that can scale and maybe there's an option for you to fill it with a role of someone we hire. So it's like almost sop. This is very similar to some of the Instagram stuff we're doing, is you work with a skilled expert to teach us something, build a system around what we have, and then essentially we hire someone to do the role, but get trained by that expert in their systems based off of our fricking platform. So it's like, really, it's kind of cool to think about it, but in the last however long it's been, we've been able to now start covering our email writing. I mean, obviously this is a work in progress, but email writing, copywriting, webinar, even salesmanship there a little bit. We do the content, but we have a lot of automated people helping us with coding.

We create the content ourselves. That's pretty much us in the content area, members area, follow up and all that stuff. But sales team will be a potential upsell there that we're working on. We'll see if that's a thing, but that's outsourced or hired by our partner, that is with this partner. And then, you know, we have all the Instagram, social media, all this stuff. We have folks in there every day posting new things and automations. And I think that's, I think that's more than enough right there. You know, that shores up a lot of this stuff. I mean, when it comes to us, we're, you know, our roles are more.

You know, just making sure the vision's going the way it should be, looking for opportunities, being strategic with partnerships and creating content like crazy. And yeah, man, I think we're well, on our. On our path right now.

Yeah. And I think, you know, going back to this stuff we were talking about yesterday, and I think even a TD bit on our last therapy session was the. The concept of sort of not comparing to where other people are, instead kind of compared to where you were. And we were kind of getting into this discussion of, you know, we have this contrast of where we see our friends in high school, and we look at where we are in our lives, in our business, and we look at where they. In their lives, in our business, and, you know, from their perspective, they're like, holy shit. Like, you guys have made it. And they. They sort of ground us a little bit of. Of going, man, we really kind of.

The. The problems we talk about having aren't really as, you know, basic problems as we make them out to be.

You're basically saying, like, a sale. A bad sales day for us is like. For them. They're like, holy crap.

Yeah.

You know, it's like. And that is honestly something we should check ourselves with honestly and ground ourselves. And I think I was even saying this on last podcast when we're wrapping up is. But, like, keep tapping into the path that we've come and then check ourselves on the people that know, like, and trust us, where we're like, oh, man. All right, cool. Yeah, we're up to some good here.

Yeah, let's wrap up so you can go get in your Tesla, leave my mansion, and drive back to your mansion.

Yeah, so I can work at my home gym.

True story.

I sound like a dick, but, no, that was a lie. Except for the mansion part. That's subjective.

Mansion in some parts. Mansion in some parts. All right, thank you for listening to our therapy session. This is honestly, like, I don't know. I seriously feel better now than I did before I. When I walked in your house, like, three hours ago.

Was that the therapy session or the weed?

All of the above.

I'm just kidding.

No, but seriously, it's. I think these therapy sessions are cool. And it's. And it's. It's kind of cool because now we get to mastermind and brainstorm while we're recording.

Yeah. Let us know your feedback. If you are tuning into this and you're in our evergreen profits Facebook group, let us know what you think of these therapy session sort of episodes. We love making them. Like we kind of said, you heard a conversation mastermind sort of unfold where we kind of, over the course of the conversation, eased up and went deeper and deeper into the conversations. But is it even fun or interesting to listen to? We're kind of curious what you think.

Who knows?

But yeah, we're just going to be us. You can't change us. Don't try.

Email us infovergreenprofits.com give us your feedback. Hop in the Facebook group, get in the forum. If you're a member of the traffic course, remember you can get that evergreenprofits.com traffic.

Traffic.

Yeah. And if you love it, I hope you do. We'll just keep doing this so we can just record more and brainstorm more.

Wait, is it evergreenprofits.com traffic or evergreenprofits.com.

Trafficbook traffic's the course.

Oh, okay, cool.

That's what I was.

I think there's evergreenprofits.com trafficbook if you want to grab a free book on traffic.

That is a good option.

That is a good option.

Good idea.

We might upsell you into buying the course, but you can get the book if you want a sneak peek.

They know it's coming. Yeah, they're smarter than that, Matt.

Yeah, they know for sure.

You are smarter than this.

You are smarter than this. All right, well, thanks for tuning in. Actually, like, it's funny because we're wrapping up this episode right now and I'm like, I got like three more rabbit holes we can go. I'm not going to. I'm like, I got like three more rabbit holes we could go down right now and oh my God, this is now. I'm like, flow of like, like, dude, I'm digging this therapy session. Let's keep it going. And Joe's like, I gotta get my butt out of here. You're keeping me from doing my stretches or whatever you're gonna do. I gotta go home and do taekwondo or something.

What's the other one that I do?

Jiu jitsu.

Yeah, and the other one too.

Kung fu.

Oh, that's a good one. That's my favorite. But I have another one actually.

The kickboxing.

Uh huh. That's a good one. Yeah, but there's that one.

Where are you looking for me to go with this?

I don't know, I'm just seeing how many fighting styles you can throw at me.

The one where you smack around your dogs?

Yeah, that's the one. Okay. No PETA, not true.

It's called dog kwondo.

I don't know. Yeah, nailed it.

Yeah, you just go home and kick your dogs.

Jesus Christ. You're a horrible.

I don't know why you do this.

Practice. That's not me. Hey, I'm gonna reveal that thing about you that you don't want anyone to know about.

Go for it. What is it? Because I'm still curious.

I don't know if this is the time. I'm not mentally emotionally prepared for this. So I think it'll be next therapy session.

Next therapy session. All right, tune in next therapy session to find out my deepest, darkest secret.

It's pretty crazy.

All right, guys, see you in the next one.

Thank you. All right, thank you.

And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learned there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up hustle and flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this. This cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool, free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com. so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

It you're awesome.