Ty Cohen - How To Get Wealthy Using Kindle Books

But the biggest returns I've always seen is putting money back into your business. So putting money right back into your business, especially if you have something that's working right. So one of the biggest problems that we as entrepreneurs have is we'll stop doing something simply because it works so damn well. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear. Wiki wiki wiki. Hey, welcome back to Hustle and Flowchart. Today we're talking with Ty Cohen. And you know what, Ty? I'm just going to let Ty go ahead and introduce this episode.

Hey, guys, Ty Cohen here. Listen, I just did an amazing episode on the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with Joe and Matt. We talk about everything from Kindle Publishing to NFTs to the stock market to mutual funds to short term rentals, to staying focused as an entrepreneur and so much more. If you don't watch this one, you are crazy awesome.

So we have a really, really good one. You just Ty, tell you everything we're going to talk about. Make sure you grab the notes on this one. If you go to hustleandflowchart.com notes you can grab the notes on this one. And all of the little gold nuggets of wisdom that Ty shared throughout this episode are available in that action guide. Go to hustleandflowchart.com notes now let's go chat with Ty.

All right, we're rolling. Ty, thanks for joining us today, my man.

Man, I am excited. I'm ready to do this, so let's do it.

Yeah, no, you're one that we've circled for a while. And Sharon Worsley got to give you another shout out. She's everywhere, man. She's so cool. And you were talking her up as well, so she made it happen for us today. And yeah, I think you just have an amazing story, you know, this crazy background, you know, like literally like getting past like death type experiences in hospital bed. I mean, it's crazy all the way from poverty to crush knit generational wealth all built on the back of publishing and your entrepreneurship endeavors, man. It's like, it's super fascinating. So we're gonna get, I wanna get some of that story, but get into the tactics too of the Kindle publishing that you do, digital publishing. But then how you're actually growing your wealth too, on top of all that. It's gonna be a fun time, man. So, yeah, I don't know. Other Than that, man. How long have you been in the game, I guess, doing digital publishing? Because you did some stuff prior to that?

Yeah, man, I've done a ton of stuff. So on the digital side, I'd say about 21 years. So wait, my daughter is 23. This is how. This is my marker. So my daughter is 23. So I got started the year that she was born. So 23 years now and actually got started, man, selling like, you know, toys. So like, online digital toys. This is back when AOL was around and you had, like, directories and that was the flow of things. So selling like, GI Joes, action figures. I'm heavily into comic books, like Marvel and dc, specifically Marvel. So I would sell a ton of comics and, you know, had a very, very interesting business, right, that. That did pretty well. And then moved into a couple of other industries, like the music industry. Got really passionate about trying to start a record label and being like, the next, you know, Master P or Suge Knight. The good Suge Knight. Yeah, right. And selling digital products to musicians and authors kind of came around on the back end of that.

Because Kindle Publishing, I know, is what you're known for, I would say, at least in the entrepreneur business space. What got you into that? Like, actually publishing in general. Like that.

Yeah. So with Amazon, right? Can you believe it's been like, almost 25 years that Amazon's been around Internet like nuts, right? So time flies. So I had a record label and started this label. Put a ton of money into it, put a ton of time into it. Thought I knew how to run a business on the record label side. Cause I had a lot of success selling toys and windups. The long story short, I knew less about business than I thought. So I took everything that I knew about the music side of business and dealing with artists and record labels and radio stations, and I started to put that in books. So I teamed up with my attorney, my label attorney at that time. We created a series of contracts. I pretty much hired him. I said, dude, listen, I'm gonna give you $10,000. I want you to go in and write up these boilerplate template contracts for me. And then I hired a software company, and I had the software company take those contracts and put them into an editable format so that whether you're on PC or Mac, you can go in and as an artist or a record label, craft your own individual contracts. So I took that, and those things started selling like hotcakes, man. I was selling it on ebay. Built my own site through Scratch learning code and building it from the back end up making all the mistakes that a traditional Internet marketer would make now, like a black background with white text, which is crazy. And then ended up just taking a lot of my knowledge that I had from the music side of things and created a series of books, so started self publishing, physical books. And at that time Amazon had a division called Amazon Advantage. Whereas a publisher, you can ship books out to them physically, right? They would order 100, 200 copies, depending on what the demand was, and they would stock those books and then they would fulfill the orders, handle customer support, everything else, and send you a check. It got to a point where we were selling like 10,000 books a month. And it was just me and my wife at the time. We're in our living room, we're fulfilling the orders, we're shipping these huge boxes off to Amazon and I get a notice from Amazon, one of their reps, and they were like, hey, we're starting up a new platform, a new division. It's called kdp Kindle Direct Publishing. And this is basically going to be where people can buy digital books, right? So Kindle Books and as an Internet marketer, right, like we've always been familiar with the term ebook, right? Digital books, PDFs consuming digital content. But I thought it was the stupidest idea. I'm like, listen, who's going to buy like digital books outside of the folks that sell to the masses, right. And managed the one time in life where I actually admit to happily being wrong because that turned up, you know, being like this multi billion dollar business and we've done over like 50 million in sales so far with the, with the program.

So yeah, I mean, it feels a lot like NFTs right now where people are like, why would people want to buy these digital images? But good point. I don't know, there's, there's some roadmap there that looks pretty exciting, but that's a topic for probably later on in the conversation.

Absolutely. That's my language now, NFTs, right?

You are all speaking the same language right now then.

Yeah, yeah. I'm curious, can we break down some of the Kindle process that, that you work through? I know there's probably a lot of nuanced things, but maybe from a high level, can we break down what that process looks like to maybe come up with the idea for the Kindle book? And then how do you actually get eyeballs on the Kindle book? And just for a little context, Joe and I, we have done some kindle publishing in the past just kind of dipped our toes in the water and we've always found that it's kind of hard to get attention on the books, right? You've got to actively like, really, really market the books as well. So I'm just really curious to hear this sort of overarching high level concept of what you're doing.

Yeah, great question. So one of the things, right, so what I would get all the time is I would get business owners asking me to consult them and help them with their marketing. And I found that there was usually this one thing that most of them had in common and that was they didn't really know the market. And more importantly, they didn't know what the market wanted. Like, they had these amazing ideas, they had a service, maybe it was something that someone told them that they were good at, but they didn't go in and like, do the research to find out, man. Like, what I'm great at or this product that I think is the next best thing since sliced bread. Will the market support it by wanting it, number one, and then number two, are they going to be willing to pay for it? Right? So the first thing that we teach people is you want to make sure that you do your market research, right? So there's actually three core steps to this thing. So the first is market research. Like, regardless of how good you think that your writing is or whether you suck at writing, like me, like, I'm so good with writing that I felt English 101 in high school not once, but twice, man. So English 101, failing it twice because I'm an overachiever at that. But I tell people, like, listen, whether you're a writer or whether you're an entrepreneur, you're looking to get more visibility for your book, or whether you just care less about writing and you just want to create this passive stream of income, the first thing that you want to do is you want to make sure that there's a market there to support it and even more so that there's an evergreen market, right? Because in Internet marketing, right, we always hear that you want to go with the niches, which is fine sometimes, but when you want to make a lot of money, I found that, like, when you want to be like, to a point where you're just continuously making cash, to the point where it's hard to shut it off, you want to go where the markets are wide and where they're evergreen. Like, they're not seasonal, they're not niches like fidget spinners. Remember the fidget spinners? Right now you can. Sure. Right. So that's the first thing. So we show people how to go in and conduct the market research and kind of model something that has already been a proven seller and that has perennially sold, that's been selling for a while, that will continue to sell for a while and that has competition as well. So competition is good. Right. So if you see that there's, you know, 10, 12, 13, 14, 20, 30 of authors and they're all selling well, chances are you jump in and if you know a little bit about marketing, you can take over the marketplace. Right. Because most of them are writers, they're authors and they care about that stuff. But the marketing they don't put in place. So the first step is the market research. That's the first thing, making sure whether it's fact or fiction. You go in, you spend some time on your market research using the processes that I show you. And then once you get that down, it's like a no brainer after that.

So is that like going after niches that are health, wealth, relationships, like the sort of big broad ones that pretty much anybody wants information in?

Anybody and everyone. Right. So if you think about anything that your mom may have been interested in in the past, anything that your dad may have been interested in the past, your neighbor, right. Joe, think about anything that Matt might be interested in. Matt, think about anything that Joe might be interested in. And, and he's talked about it for like the last 10 years. That's right, right. So think about like cars. I'm into cars big time. Right. Have always been, always will be. So if you can come in and kind of find something that revolves around cars, then you can do well. Right. So I'll give you an example. So my son Tyler, he got started with publishing when he was 15. He's 17 now. He actually just spoke at a live event over the weekend and he makes about four grand a month publishing romance novels. Dude. Like romance novels. Now when I think about this, right. My mom, I remember being 8, 9 years old and my mom liked reading romance notes. Right, right. So I mean it's never going to go out of style. So I've got one of our students, his name is Peter Andre. He's, he just turned 20. He was 19, but he just turned 20. He's doing $33,000 a month publishing books around the topic of public speaking. So he was very passionate about debate and he was like at the top of his game and debate class in high school and he Just took what he was passionate about, put it into publishing and followed the steps that we provide and he's killing it. So again, we've got people that publish books on the subjects of mystery, thriller, romance, sci fi, just everything. And it just, it just works when you follow the processes.

So it's a mix of what sounds like nonfiction, fiction. It doesn't really matter, Right. It's just go for it. So it's mainly ghostwriters. I'm imagining someone else to help you out with the writing and after you give them the format.

Well, is that the next step? So if the first step is niche research and kind of figuring out the, where you want to go is the next step, finding a writer or writing it yourself or where you go from there, that's it.

So once you've locked in the direction that you want to go on. Right. And I always tell people, listen, it depends on what the goal is. So if you are someone, because in our community it's about 50, 50 meaning we have people that are die hard writers. Right. Met a journalist, I spoke to a lady over the weekend. She's like, ty, you know, I've been following you for a while, but I have journalists, I've been on all of these news channels. How does your model fit, what it is that I'm looking to do? I don't want to hire a ghost rider because that is one of the processes there. So I'm like, write it yourself. Like this is the perfect thing. If, if it's therapeutic for you, if you're passionate about, about writing, write it yourself. So 50% of the people that I come in contact with are writers. 50% are not their entrepreneurs. Right. So they wear that hat. So if you are a writer, that's the next step. You'll go in and you write your content and we show you how to flow it all out and everything else. If you're an entrepreneur, you're looking to drive traffic because you can use Kindle books to drive traffic, to build a list where you're basically ascending them up to your coaching programs, your courses or anything else that you have. If you're just looking for this passive income stream, then that's the next step, which is going in and hiring an outsourcer. Right. Someone to ghostwrite your content for you.

Yeah, that makes sense. This brings me back because back in the day I had a partner, Amish Shah, and I were publishing. Do you know Amish by chance?

Absolutely. Amish is old school man over on the west coast.

Yeah, he's one of my best buddies. We're all in San Diego here. So I was partners with him, and we did ibooks for a long time. And that was for probably. Well, it was like, for like a couple of years. But we had a little process. It was interesting, but, like, would. It's, you know, I know they're completely different environments, but have you touched ibooks, like, as compared to Kindle? Is there any kind of crossover with the strategies here?

Yeah, no, I haven't touched ibooks, honestly. But one of the things I like about Kindle books is if you do it the right way, meaning if you set it up in a series format and again, it works for fiction or nonfiction, but meaning that there's this continuous process. Let's say romance. You've got a character that flows through to the next book, to the next book, to the next book, to the next book. And there's always a cliffhanger. So what's your favorite television show? Give me a show that you guys like. Ted Lasso walking. What is it?

Ted Lasso, right there.

Okay. All right. There you go. Right. So at the end of each episode, there's a cliffhanger, and you're like, so for me, it's the Walking Dead. Like, I am like, net. Like, the Walking Dead is my show. It's like Sunday. I gotta be there because last week they left off here. And I want to know what's going to happen. So the same thing with our content. We leave people in a state of being in a cliffhanger so that they want to go in and they want to read the next book, and then the next book and the next book. Now that works really well for fiction, right? Now when it comes to nonfiction, you have just continuation. So people, if they're coming in and they want to learn something, let's say you want to learn Spanish 101, right? Well, the next obvious step is you want to get better at that. And that's Spanish one or two. Or that's your course, or that's your coaching, or that's your training program. Or like I said, we just did a weekend event, right, for people that are interested in Kindle publishing. They want to know, like, what's the next step here? And how do I take that to the next level?

Yeah, yeah. And that's, That's. That's where I was thinking. I was like, yeah, there's always these next steps. It could be an opt in some way to get the lead. Cause that's why I brought up the whole ibooks thing. It's like, yeah, that was a lead gen thing too. Just using the natural traffic in the platform. That's where my mind kind of shifted. It's like, man, there's a whole environment here that feeds the traffic and you can get a reader and then carry them on once you have their attention. And you kind of format the book in a way to keep the journey continuing through.

Well, there's an old, I think it's Dan Kennedyism where he talks about how the easiest customer to get is somebody that's already bought from you. Right? So it's like if you put out a Kindle book and one person buys it from you, you've probably got a customer who's going to buy the next seven things from you after that. So that's really, really.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't, I don't think most authors think about it from that approach. I mean, a lot of fiction authors do, but I don't think most people that are publishing nonfiction think about it from that approach.

Yeah.

So one of the things that we teach people is how to build their mailing list first, right? So a lot of our students have mailing list of 10,000, 50,000, 60,000 people because again, no one's doing it right. And they, no one's also marketing in your space. So it's a one off sell. You come in, you buy, whether it's nonfiction or fiction. Usually that is a one off sell in the writer's head and the content creators head. So they're not thinking about like, well, how do I sell this person into the next thing, right? How do I continue to give value into the next thing? We also teach them how to build a community, right? So that you have this community that's doing the selling for you as well. So in our community, what's happening is, you know, I can mention a process. So Sharon, Sharon Worsley we both know, right? So perfect example. So Sharon is part of my community now because she's seen the results that a lot of the students get. She goes out and campaigns and tells other people and now that becomes this continuous loop. So it's like the affiliate marketing example, right? Where you have like the first tier and then you might offer second tier where you're giving 5% or 10%. Well, you get that like the first tier is the person that loves your content, they love your book, and then that second tier is the person that they've told and then that person has went on and told someone else. So when you set it up, the Right way. And you've got your funnel set up the right way when that happens.

Yeah, that's the power, that's the machine. Then, right? You're like kind of creating your own little platform within the platform. You know, like when you figure out how to get attention, you get them in there and you lock them in. Well, how about the marketing of these books? So I know Amazon, there's probably a million ways to market this, but like, are there, are there a few ways that you can recommend?

Yeah, absolutely. So what we use is we use Facebook and we use YouTube for marketing a lot, right? So Facebook is super easy. Especially in some of these niches. You'll find that you have very little competition, even with things like the latest iOS fiasco that's been taking place for Facebook. So we use a process that is kind of called hit marketing, right? Where you're going in and you're testing three different elements at, at, at, at separate times. So the first thing you're testing is your headline, right? You get your headline dialed in, then you go in and you test your image. You get your image dialed in and then after that you go in and you test your title and then you come back and you combine all of those. And that gives you this Facebook ad that not only has an amazing click through rate because all of these elements have been tested, right? They've all been proven to work really well, but it also gives you like high conversion rates on the purchase side or whether it's on the lead side. We always go for purchases over leads, right? Because we're looking for individuals that are comfortable with buying online, individuals that are going to buy over and over and over again. I found that sometimes with Facebook ads, if you're just going for the lead side of things, you could get faked out because you have people, Facebook is super smart. They know who's going to go in and register as a lead, right?

That's right.

So they'll send you a ton of those individuals. But if you say, hey, I want to optimize for purchases, then you'll get the people that will opt in as well as buy. So when we use this hit method to run ads and we teach our authors that they have a much higher success rate than someone who probably would just go out and run Facebook ads in a traditional way. So then what they're doing as well is it's Facebook ad to opt in, where we give them a freemium, which is the first installment of your book. It's going to be a very short version of it, five pages or so, just to whet their appetite. That five page premium then sends them to your book on Amazon where they can actually go in and buy it. And now you have them on your mailing list, you've got them on Amazon and you're just good to go. It helps that cycle to continuously repeat.

Got it? Yeah. So you got the marketing from the Amazon enough over there, but really you're relying on your own form of marketing through emails and retargeting if you can and all that stuff too.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

I'm curious, this is kind of a sort of like in the weeds question, but how would you optimize for sales over on Kindle if there's no way to track a conversion on Kindle? Or maybe there's a way to track a conversion on Kindle and I'm just not familiar with it.

No, so does that. So what we do is we teach our authors to create box sets. So primarily fiction authors. So what we're doing is if you've got a seven part series, remember I said you've got book one, book two, book three. Right. So after you've published all of these books, you now put them into a box set and that box set sells for a higher price and that's what you're actually marketing to your customers, right, through Facebook ads. So now you've got that purchase conversion on your box set, thank you page there. So you're good to go. Great question.

Now what about pricing? What's the pricing strategy? Because I know there's like Kindle Unlimited, which there's like a pool of money available for people who put their books on Kindle Unlimited. And you know along there was a long stretch of time where people were getting frustrated when Kindle books cost more than like $2. You know, there's all sorts of things around pricing and Kindle books and Kindle pricing has always been a little funky. So I'm curious, how do you price them and what's the approach there?

Yeah, it's insane. So what we find is first giving away that free book. Right. And again it's going to be super short five pages. Something that's lost leader, something that gets people's appetite wet there. And then after that we find that 299 is like a premium price dip because it's, it's no biggie. Right. Like you're not thinking about do I pay my mortgage this month or can I afford to buy 299? Right. So Van, at that point, once you have the box set 999 works really well. So you can like 999 them to death all day long to a point where people got a rabid fans and they're, they're really hooked into what it is that you're selling. They want the box set, they're going to buy a lot more at that 999. Sometimes we'll give them a premium when they come in and they buy the box set. And again, this is something that you can even do for nonfiction as well. It just works both ways.

Yeah.

Do you find it valuable to turn on Kindle Unlimited or do you want the 299 every time?

Nope. Kindle Unlimited is amazing because you get a lot of people who. I'll give you an example. Right. So my mother in law, we bought her Kindle device two Christmases ago and she just went in and just loaded it up. Right. With Kindle Unlimited. Right. I forgot my account was on that bad boy.

What are you doing?

But she just goes in and loads it up. So now she's part of a Kindle Unlimited program as well. Right. Through my account. So we have a lot of our students who just make bank by being in Kindle Unlimited through getting the page reads. I just interviewed one of my students, her name is Caroline Trainor. She's had a million page reads just over the last couple of months. Right. And she's enrolled in Kindle Unlimited and people are just loving it. So she's making more money now through Kindle Unlimited than she would through the actual initial purchase at 299. But the part of that is now she also has longer books. Right. Because with Kindle Unlimited you're getting paid per page read and the length of time that someone's actually in your book. So instead of this being just a 30 or 40 page book, now we're looking at 50 pages. We're looking at 60 pages. Right. So it's always a balance between your market and where you're at and what it is that you ultimately want to do. So most people will go in and they'll enroll their books in Kindle Unlimited as well as have that price point where there's a sell for people that are not enrolled in Kindle Unlimited on the other side.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's cool. And it makes sense too that it's, you know, you make every chapter a cliffhanger now, right now, now you're going to get them to consume deeper and deeper into the book as well. So you can do the same cliffhanger thing per chapter.

It's like 100%.

It's like Netflix, huh? You just gotta, you know, it's all about engagement across the channels. I actually didn't know about that. Kindle Unlimited, how you get paid, It's. It's through consumption. Yeah, I'm like, that's pretty brilliant, actually. Yeah.

It's actually kind of similar to YouTube, right? It's like based on the retention numbers, how long people stick around with it.

So are there any other tips for writers to keep attention or retention within a book? I mean, you have the cliffhangers. I'm sure the writing style helps too.

So I've got this method called the hook method, right? And Amazon has. Have you ever been on Amazon and you look at a book and there's like this look inside tab at the very top where you can go in and preview. So right there I tell people, like, whatever it is that you're writing doesn't matter. Fact or fiction again, right? Hook them in. Like, Amazon is giving you those couple of pages to, like, really preview the information. Like, don't be like, calm there. Like, don't be modest there. Like, just really go in and talk about the characters. Talk about like their journey, Talk about like the crap that they get into, right? Talk about, like, what could possibly happen. And then also, you guys, I saw we had Robert Cialdini on one of the episodes, right? So Robert Cialdini, the Power of Influence and Persuasion was one of my. Still to this day, one of my favorite books. So in there he talks about, like mystery. So and this is kind of leading towards the cliffhanger thing as well, right? So if you start something off from a point where there's a little bit of mystery that's involved there, people have to follow through. Doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you are a plus student or the D student. Like, mystery is always going. The curiosity of it is always going to make you want more. So at the very beginning of your book where there's that look inside feature, have some element of mystery that's in there, right? And Cialdini does this with his book. As a matter of fact, I don't know if you guys read that one, but if you go back to it, at the very beginning, he talks about. I forget what the example was, but it's to the effect of there's one thing that helps people to get a 50% more conversion rate. And this is me doing the Teardini impression right there. This is one thing that helps people to get a 50% more higher conversion rate. If they make this one simple tweak, you've got to find this one out. Right. So he leads off with that and then you're like, what the hell is it? So now you've got to read the rest of the book. You're thinking 50%. If I could only get 50%. That's all types of things are going to your head now. Right. That's going to shoot my conversions up. I'm going to make more money. I'm going to get more subscribers, more readers. Right. So mystery at the very beginning and being able to position it the right way at the very beginning of your book so that you can take advantage of that look inside feature. I know that was the longest. Heck, no.

That's perfect. I love it.

But that's it.

I love the reference to Cialdini as well, because there's so many things you can do and like you said. Yeah. If you just tease them a little bit. Yeah. It's almost like a pre cliffhanger, I guess. You know, it's like your mind just starts doing all the things. You know, the bells and whistles are going off like, I got cancer, man. Yeah, that's powerful. Now I'm just. Yeah, there's a lot of. How about more tactics, Matt? Are there any others?

I mean, I think he's a tactic guy over here.

So I want to.

I'm looking through my notes and I think we kind of covered everything. Is there anything about the Kindle stuff that we haven't really talked about that's kind of a key to this that maybe we're brushing over?

Yeah, yeah. So we talked about. So the steps. Right. So I mentioned that there's three steps. So the first step is doing your market research. I think that's where a lot of people kind of make mistakes at, right?

Oh, yeah.

So they put a lot of effort into the content because we think that, hey, listen, if the content is great, and I'm not saying that the content should be great because. Because it must be phenomenal, but their focus is on the content only instead of looking at the market. So, number one, conducting the right market research and spending time there, making sure that you're looking at your competitors, making sure that you're looking at the best sellers rank of your competitors. I found that if there's a BSR bestsellers rank of less than 20,000, and you can kind of find this when you go on Amazon and you look at a book and you go all the way down to the left hand side you'll see where it says bestsellers rank, right? So for the main category, if your BSR is less than 20,000, then that's a book that sells extremely well. If it's higher than 20,000, and that's a book that you probably don't want to go in and you know, and model and get into that category. But the way Amazon does it is they don't give us exact sales numbers. So they won't say, hey, this book has a bestsellers rank of 19,000. That means it's selling 500 copies a month, right? But through the magic of algorithm hacking and a few other things, we can kind of get an idea as to what a book selling and you know, how frequently they're selling based off the best sellers rank. So look at your best sellers rank. Look at books that have that BSR of less than 20,000. Also look at books that have a price point attached to it. Because Matt, you mentioned something that makes sense, right? So when you look at Kindle Unlimited, when you're going in and doing your research for most books, you'll see a couple of tabs at the very top. It'll be a tab for the paperback version, it'll be a tab for the audiobook version. If there's an audiobook version, there'll be a tab for the Kindle book version. You want to make sure that there's price points that are attached to each of those. And the reason why is when we're doing our market research, we want people that are not just looking lose, that are going into Kindle Unlimited and just downloading the book, but we want people that actually buy, right, Whether they're buying the audiobook version, whether they're buying the Kindle version or the paperback version of something, you want there to be like enough buyers. So with enough buyers. The other thing is when you're doing your market research, right, so there's, there's three criteria. The first is making sure that your best sellers rank is 20,000 or less. The second is making sure that there's a price point attached. And then the third is making sure that there's at least 500 reviews for that book that you're considering jumping into that market of 500 four star reviews. So like not 500, like two star, one star reviews, not 500 or not 100, you know, four star reviews. So because that helps us with the demand as well. Now when you're looking at the reviews, here's how you go in and you put together phenomenal content. And again, this works for both fiction and nonfiction. Look at the reviews. If you see a book that on average has about four star reviews, look at the negative reviews and look at the positive reviews. Reviews. The negative reviews will tell you what you should not do with your book and what you shouldn't slack on. So if you're reading, let's say, give me a topic, anything, what do you guys think?

How about investing?

Perfect.

Yeah.

So if you look, you're looking at. So we're in a short term rental industry as well, right? So if you're looking at a book that deals with short term rentals, Airbnb verbal and.

Negative reviews are saying, well, the guy didn't talk about how to set up your Airbnb account. Didn't talk about how to set up your verbal account. Well, dude, you got a book that talks about short term rentals, make sure you cover how to set up your Airbnb account, your verbal account, especially if you see complaint after complaint after complaint. Right. And negative reviews that deal with that. And by the same token, look at the positive reviews and the things that you see consistently that come up. Well, here he talked about all of the coolest restaurants. He also included like a rating of all of the coolest restaurants. Well, guess what? You want to have in your book, like not only a rating of all of the coolest restaurants, but also like the theme parks that are around, you know, like the movie theaters, the shopping centers and everything else. Right? Just go one step above. So that's how you really go in and you create content that is going to sell not only long term, but that's going to sell really, really well.

That's what I love about Amazon is like, you can, you can model from so many out there and they basically put it all out there for you. And the reviews are gold. I mean, for anything. And actually another Cialdini thing that stuck, he was saying that the, the most trustworthy or the best sold things have ratings of about 4.8. I remember that. And I was like, that's interesting. But that applies here, you know, 100%.

It's not fake. Right? Because we look at that, we're always wondering, like, think about it, how many times have you gone on Amazon or anywhere and you've seen the reviews and if it's five stars, you're like, there's no way the guy's got to be buying reviews. And then if it's three stars, you're like, I don't know if I want to be of a sucker so it's got to be right there and four and a half, 4.8, right. You're all in your soul.

That's right.

Yeah. You mentioned something else a minute ago too, that got me curious. Do you do anything with the physical side? I know it used to be called CreateSpace. I don't think it's called Createspace anymore. I think that all got rolled into kdp, I think. But do you do anything with physical books or the audio version of the books? Like if a book really takes off, do you go and make those versions as well? Or, you know, what do you do with that stuff?

Yeah, 100%. So here's what I tell my students, right? So once you get a book that's doing well in a Kindle format, the easiest ways to make more money is, number one, go in and create an audiobook version of it. You can go on Upwork, you can go on Fiverr, you can go on guru all of these freelancing sites and hire someone to record the audio for you. So I find like if I've got a 30 to 50 page book, I can pay someone about $150 to $200 to record that to audio chapters, broken down, WAV files, MP3 files, everything, right? So you've got everything nicely in sync. So that's the first thing, Audiobook, right? Take your best selling Kindle book, turn it into audiobook. Then the next thing is take that book and turn it into another language so have it translated into Spanish. So Spanish is the language that I start with first, right? Second largest language on the planet. Language on the planet, same thing. You can go up to upwork. I usually use upwork. I love upwork. I use Google as well. But upwork is like my go to because you can find people that are proficient in Spanish, native Spanish speakers, and have them translate your book. You can also go in and use like Google Translate. There's a ton of other softwares out there, but I find that, you know, it's really iffy. There's nothing better than actually getting someone that knows the language, knows the dialect and paying them to do it right. And then you can go in and push it through one of these automation programs. And then the next thing, that third thing is going in and having a print version of it created. So I always start with audio books first and then I always go straight to Spanish. Especially when you've got a book that's.

Doing well, smart with the languages. I mean, I know that's the case with digital publishing in general. Like Courses, like, we're chatting with just some people at our Mastermind, and they're like, yeah, that's one of the biggest things is, like, there's companies that even do that for you for courses, but Spanish is usually the one, you know, is that next step I was actually curious about, like, in terms of AI and, you know, tools like Jarvis and stuff like that. Do you. Have you ever played with that in terms of, like, creating a narrative or kickstarting a story?

No, but that's next, so that is definitely next, man. One of the things that I do do is we use services like. You guys heard of Rev.com, right? So Rev. And then you can use, like, Google. Google has a version of you. Open up Google Docs. So speech to text.

Oh, yeah.

So I always tell people that hit. Have you ever heard of the marketers cruise, Michael?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Okay. So I've been going on a marketers cruise for, I don't know, forever, for 15 years or so, and was asked to contribute a couple of chapters. A few years. And then there's one day when captain Lou, he asked me, hey, Ty, can you contribute a chapter? And, oh, by the way, I need it within the next three hours. I'm like, lou, this is like, not gonna happen, right? So.

I'm going to pick my son Tyler, the same one who publishes the romance books to Amazon, going to pick him up from football practice. And I got there early, so I had about 20, 25 minutes before he got out. I picked up my phone, dude, and I'm starting to speak it. So I start speaking the content and having it transcribed using Rev.com and before you know it, within the next two and a half hours, I had more than that chapter that I needed, right? So in 20 minutes, I was literally able to speak it, send it over to Rev, send that audio file over to them. They transcribed it. I went in, spent another 15 or 20 minutes just updating it, and that's the chapter there. So I tell people who are professionals, who are proficient in, like, their industry, who know their stuff, like, if you can talk about your subject matter in your sleep, go in and just speak it to text, and you've got an entire book there.

I love that.

Man in a day.

Yeah, Otter is another great tool. I've done that a lot. I like the Rev thing because that you actually get the human touch to help you transcribe it, maybe even format it a little bit for you, too. And it's not, you know, it's inexpensive. Oh, that's Smart man.

Yeah, I think for that. So for that, that chapter was like 18 bucks or so.

Come on. You're sitting in your car, waiting, doing, you know, killing time, and there you go. You just created content.

Yep.

That's the way.

That's it. And it's a net time. Right. So it's no extra time. Net time. You would have been sitting in your car, probably goofing off doing something. Unless you're watching, like, the Hustle and Flow.

There you go.

Then that's good. That's good time invested. But if you're just twiddling your thumbs on Twitter, right. Then, I mean, you got time to go in and create your content, and then it's another stream.

Love it.

Yeah. I mean, where I wanted to go from here is I wanted to kind of shift a little bit and talk about the bigger picture. Like, you know, what's next when you start making decent money off of Kindle books? What do you do with that money? And I know this is something you've talked about on some other podcasts, and I know it's something that you said. Kind of lights you up, is the investing side, how do we actually grow the wealth that we're making off of Amazon? So, I mean, maybe a good starting point is what are a handful of sort of investments and places that you put your money?

You know what? Even before that, I want you to set the stage. Ty a little bit from just quickly your background, because the way I see the way you're doing this and bringing your kids into this, bringing your son into real estate deals and having him see the lawyers and all the man.

You've done your research, huh?

Yeah, a little bit. That's what we do. I love this stuff. But you came from crazy, like, in, what, Connecticut? Right? In the project. Yeah, like, it was a gnarly story, and I probably don't have time for it, but I just want you to set the stage of how you're, like, literally changing the legacy of your family and probably so many others, too. And then.

Yeah. So when you think of Connecticut, right, you think cows and pastures. But actually, man, I grew up in Fiber Panic village in the 80s. This is when crack and heroin was, like, proficient. And, like, I've seen so many of my friends get killed by being in gangs, getting arrested. Just, you know, it's just a very crazy life. Right? At that time, five at Panic Village, that baton that I grew up in, which was Bridgeport, Connecticut, had the highest murder rate per capita of the entire United States in Connecticut. Right. Which is Crazy. Like, you had guys that would come from some of the toughest projects in New York, because New York is 30 minutes away that would be afraid of coming in this area where I grew up at. So it's all about just changing. You know, the late Wayne Dyer used to say, when you change the way you look at things, the things that you look at change.

Yeah, Perception, right?

So when you change, it's all about perception 100%. So you could say, like, damn, my circumstances that I'm in right now are the reason why I'm in the crap that I'm in right now and the reason why my future will continue to be this way. Or you can say, man, the circumstances that I'm in right now, like, I have the ability to change it. Like, it's just starts with like making a freaking decision. I don't know. The one thing that I would say to my wife a lot is, I don't know how the hell we're gonna do this, right? But it's gonna happen.

Yeah.

I don't know, you guys. You listen to 50 cents, right? The rapper. I don't know how much you're into 50 or not, but one of his highest selling albums was Get Rich or Die Trying to right Now. But the title might fool you a bit. It's like thinking, grow rich, Napoleon Hills thinking, well, rich, the title might fool you. But basically he was saying, I am going to make it regardless. Right? And sometimes you have to have that mentality. You have to say, I'm going to make it regardless. And not only am I going to make it, but I'm going to make it to like, the next level so that anyone that comes behind me doesn't have to go through the same craziness. Like, I put a post up on Facebook that said if you are misusing the time and opportunities that your ancestors didn't have, you're doing yourself a disservice.

That's big. That's huge.

You know what I mean? Like, think about it. Because regardless of where we come from, right, Your ancestors didn't have the same opportunity. Like, they didn't have this ability to. What are we using? Riverside, like, they didn't even know what that was.

What's this? What's video over monitors? What the hell is a monitor?

Internet in general, for sure.

Yeah, 100%. So, like, just so many of the things that we use on a regular daily basis that we take advantage of. Like, man, like, we could use this stuff to really change lives. The event that we did this weekend A three day event. We had people that came in from over like 70 different countries, all over the place and just changing lives. I had a young lady that came on and she literally was in tears. We did our gratitude circle and she's literally crying because she got exposed to something that has changed her life. Right? So it's this continuous circle of giving back to people and then those people reaching out to other people. It's kind of what we talked about at the very beginning, right? With Sharon Worsley coming into a community and knowing you and saying, hey, I gotta introduce you to this guy.

She's like, this is what I love is connecting and making stuff happen. She's like, that's all the thanks is making it. Yeah, but.

Yeah, but Matt, going back to your question. So. Yeah. So taking this, right? So the biggest return. I love investing in everything, right. It's kind of an addiction, just playing around with all types of stuff. But the biggest returns I've always seen is putting money back into your business. So putting money right back into your business, especially if you have something that's working. Right? So one of the biggest problems that we as entrepreneurs have is we'll stop doing something simply because it works so damn well. Right.

Crazy.

Like, because we want to chase the next thing. Right. I was, I remember having a conversation with Matt Ford. You guys had Rich Sheffrin, right? So. Right, Mark Ford.

Yeah, the og. Yeah. Yeah.

And this is a couple years ago. And we're talking and was asking him about something that they were doing. I forget what it was. It was something that they were doing on the Agora side where there was a financial newsletter that was going grossing crazy numbers. And just out of conversation like, dude, how come you guys are not doing that anymore? He was like, I would just work too well. Right. Wow. And we got to talking, like, that's the entrepreneurial journey right there. Like, that's the. That's the gift. And the curse of being an entrepreneur is we come up with these ideas, but the ideas are often our downfall because we don't stick with the things that are working long enough for them to kick off.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, if that makes sense.

So I always tell people, like, if you have something that's working, put money back into your business. Like growing your team, growing your community, like reaching out to your customers instead of chasing the next thing first. And then after you get that like 100% dialed in, then you can go in and start chasing the next thing. So for us, the next thing was getting into real estate. Right. So I've always been on the side of investing in stocks, mutual funds, and all of that. But real estate was like a totally new challenge here. So we're actually sitting in one of our properties here. I'm going to show you guys around. I don't know if you'll be able to see it, but. So, like, this one came in and we're actually on the beach. Let me see if I. If I. I shouldn't. I should be okay. But. So the beach is here, right?

Damn beautiful. There you go. Amazing people on the beach right there. Yeah, yeah.

All right. So I got my cool neighbor over here. He just. He just got back from the mountains after that's.

So like these properties here now, we go in, we buy. We got three cabins that we're having built right now. They're under construction in the mountains and smoke in the smoky state.

Yeah.

But these properties, right. You continue to learn how to invest money and passive streams, or semi passive streams of income that are not going to take a lot of time from you, and that's also going to provide you with enjoyment. I think that's the key. So wherever we buy a property, it's in a destination area. It's a destination property where it's paying the mortgage several times over. It's a continued investment. So now, as my kids get older, we can pass that on to them. And it's something where there's always been this history of people traveling to those destinations. Right. So destination properties where, especially now during COVID they have to be in areas where people don't mind driving to. So think about some of the things that you've always thought about doing. Right. And that you've always considered to be fun. And then how can you monetize that in a way where it's not going to be intrusive to your time? Right. So that's the first thing that I would say. Well, that's the second thing. First thing, putting money back into your business, continuing to grow it. Second thing is doing things that you really enjoy that can be turned into passive income streams. The third thing is just your traditional investment properties, right. Like stocks and mutual funds.

The safe stuff. I like to call it safe because you put money into it. And, you know, if you have a business on a digital side where your return is crazy high, Right. Your overhead is insanely low. When you're looking at investing in a traditional market, like the stock market or mutual funds, you're like.

You're like, I don't know.

Right. You're like, what the. But like, that has had been a mental roadblock of mine forever. I'm like, you mean I'm gonna go put money on this and they're going to give me 2% back or 8% or 12% back. But it's safe, right? So again, it's safe. So that way, when you're 80 or 90 years old, if you don't want to, you know, do events or a coaching program or whatever it is, you have that option of doing something. And then the third thing is some of the more risky stuff that's fun. Well, I got my numbers wrong. The fourth thing, risky things that are fun. So for me now Matt was talking about NFTs and which I'm just learning about a lot more cryptocurrency, right? Got bags and bags and bags of crypto, some that are safe. I apply the same philosophy, right? Like the bitcoins and the litecoins and ethereum, things that I know that are going to come down. Like the market, it's kind of down now, but I always know that they're going to come back up.

And then you get into some of, some of a more risky, you know, like the xlm, the xrp, depending on who you're talking to, right? You got Die Hard XRP fans who are like, xrp? Is that risky? Oh, man, did Joe just look at Matt when I said that?

Yeah, he's the crazy one now. No, that's actually stuff I haven't gotten into. I actually don't know about those. So that's. That's all.

Well, XRP is Ripple, I believe That's Ripple, yeah. Nothing I've ever played around with.

Yeah, we used to do a bunch of coins, but how about NFTs and all that stuff? Have you. Are you just learning about those?

You said bro. So I'm just learning about it. So I was just talking to my team a couple of weeks ago who are hugely into. Is that even a word, hugely? Right. It's a word now that are hugely into crypto, the crypto space. So I got guys that literally. And listen, so I'm putting this out there for anyone that's watching. This is not the norm, but they took like 80 grand and turned it to like 1.5 million. Right. And less than a year. And again, that's. That's an anomaly. Right. So I don't want anyone.

No financial advice here, right?

No financial advice at all. Right. Because my insurance doesn't cover.

Yeah, but so, so talking to my guys who are on my team about creating NFT version of one of our Kindle courses and being able to pass that down through the uses of smart contracts so that someone that comes in and they buy. Are you guys familiar with how a smart contract, you can explain it though.

I mean, it might help some folks. Yeah, if you want.

Yeah, absolutely. So, right. Having a smart contract with an NFT paired together allows you to go in and sell that nft. Let's say if I've got a digital version of the Kindle cash flow course, let's say this is a digital version, we're going to use our imagination. We'll go back to being 8 years old. And then I sell this over to Matt for 10 bucks. Now, because we've got the smart contract in place, I say, Matt, you now have the ability to go in and sell it to Joe, but I need to get 5% or whatever we agree on in my initial smart contract of that cell in perpetuity. Right. So Matt sells it to Joe, Joe sells it to Robert, Robert sells it to Linda, Linda sells it to Jill. I get 5% off of each of those cells and my wife is happy as hell.

Yeah, you're a genius. Yeah, that's the power of smart contracts. And yeah, you can apply that across the board. And that's where it's interesting, the utilities of these and when you start getting.

Creative like courses, just scratching the surface. There was, there was one thing that I was reading about yesterday. I can't remember the actual name of the token that's attached to it, but basically it's this idea that you stake money in exchange for getting access to something. So, for example, let's say your Kindle course, somebody can go and pay like $1,000 to get access. I'm just making up numbers, but somebody can go and pay $1,000 to get access to the course. While, while they're taking the course, that money is staked with you and it's earning a return for you. Let's say 12, 13%. Right. So they pay $1,000, you're earning 12, 13% off of that thousand dollars. And when they decide they're, they're ready to be done with the course, they can actually pull their money back. But you made just as much, if not more, than you would have anyway because the money that they were staking with you was actually getting you an ROI while they were with you. And then when they finally cancel, they actually are out of pocket nothing. They pull their money back and you made money along the whole way. They got educated along the way and they supported you by staking money with you. That concept, to me, I was kind of going down a YouTube rabbit hole yesterday about some of the people that are building that. And that could be some pretty insane next level stuff because it removes the risk out of the consumer. But the vendors are actually still making the money off of the content that they're creating. And that, to me, is a really exciting concept.

It's insane. I mean, that, that's beautiful, right? Because what happens is now it serves a few purposes. Number one, the vendors getting paid, right? The consumer is getting access to the content, but now we're also incentivized to consume the content because they're going to get their money back. Now what happens, like, you guys, you guys sell products, right? Or you've sold products in the past, right? As the, as the content creator. Especially if you have other products on your back end, you want people to complete your course and to get results because that means that they're going to want to go in and get more of it, especially if your stuff is worth anything, right? So, like, that's a beautiful model, man. I'm truly interested in that. But I tell people all the time, I say, listen, one of the biggest problems that entrepreneurs also have, I got this entire list of biggest problems, right? That is the staying focus. So you're going to see so many different opportunities that can kind of pull you off your horse, and your horse might be running in the right direction. And then you, you know, you get.

You kind of get the shiny object syndrome and you're moving into the other direction. So it's, it's like really going master your thing. And when I say that, guys, I'm talking to myself as well, right? I'm like, hey, stay focused. Because there's so many different opportunities. Like, you hear like, everything sounds great. And I'm, I'm of the mindset, like, everything can make you a multimillionaire. Like, everything. Yep, right? If you put the hustle in, if you put the dedication in, and you totally submerge yourself in it, I think everything works. But it's like, okay, well, what do I put my time into? Because we literally only have, you know, I sleep six hours a day. That gives me 18 hours a day, right? So we literally have 18 hours a day. And then you got other stuff that you got to do. So it's not much. It's like, what? Right?

It's true, man.

So that's it.

So it's go deep.

So now that Your boy Matt over here has got me now thinking about this NFT based course program.

Hey, I'll send you some resources.

This guy is a source of knowledge, man. So how it works is I hear this every day from him, but he like distills. He's like, all right, I just watched like 50 videos. Here are like the two you got to watch. I'm like, cool, thank you.

So, so this is what I mean by focus, right? Because I don't know if you guys were able to tell just now, but as you're talking about that, Matt, I'm looking for my phone. I saw it to try to go take a message real quick and then I had to drill myself back in. I'm like, stay tuned in. But that's the gift and curse of an entrepreneur, right? Everything is good, man.

It's opportunities. Hey, I want to go back really fast to the traditional investments. When you said like you always struggled with the smaller returns, you know, and it probably took you a while, you're probably out of the game. Like, was there something that shifted your mindset there to go all in on the long term?

Yeah. So I got a cousin, we call him Lenny the Boss. He's part of our community as well and he's in real estate big time. Right. So long term rentals. And we've been partnering, considering partnering on some short term rentals. But he's always like, hey Ty, you know, if you always, if you have. Because as entrepreneurs sometimes you have the option of having a huge amount of cash sitting around.

Sure.

Right. So it's like 2% on cash that's sitting in the bank or 2% on something that's going to be used for something or 9% on it. Right, right. So it took him a while of chipping at my ego and chipping at everything else before I finally said, okay, it makes a little bit of sense. But I've always been interested in stock market, man. My mom got me interested in it when I was like 19, 18 years old. So I've always been invested in stock market at some point, but not super heavily invested in it because I've always been able to take that same amount of money. Let's say if I was going to invest 500 bucks, I was, I've always been able to take the 500 and turn it into 5,000 or 20,000 or 50,000. I just couldn't see that in stock markets at that time. So it was like Instead of taking 500, I'll put 100 into it. Right. And then I'll take the other 400 and flip it.

So yeah.

It does in compound interest, all that fun stuff that, you know, the smart guys talking about, Warren Buffett whatnot. But yeah, yeah, cool, man. This is a hell of a conversation. This is fun.

Yeah. I mean even, even the real estate side of things, I've always thought it about as in terms of the appreciation of the real estate and that feels very slow. But I, I always seem to forget about the fact that you can cash flow off that real estate in the meantime and actually have the mortgage paid for.

So it's a physical asset now. You know, you have the digital covered but you might as well start getting, you know, something that it's going to be needed. Everyone needs a place to live. Yeah.

And I guess on the stock the equivalent would be finding stocks that pay out, you know, fairly frequent dividends. Now that's kind of a passive cash flow and you're a little less concerned about the raise in the value of the stock because you know, you're actually cash flowing off of the stock as well. So yeah, that's, that's pretty much my investment strategies. I only invest in dividend yielding stocks because I want the passive cash flow and I'm less paying attention to how much that stock is growing.

Yeah. And you know, like, so that was my approach too with real estate as well. But then short term rentals, right? Like stuff like this, like that we're in now, this can easily, easily generate 15 or so grand a month. Right. Whereas the mortgage on is 1800 bucks.

It's ridiculous, right? Yeah.

So it's like you can go in, you hire. We've got a management team that manages it that manages the rentals, manages the cleaning of everything, manages the maintenance. And you pay them 10%, right. So you could pay them 10% of your net, net gross. Right. So after everything, all of your expenses and all, then again it becomes hands off. So it's just looking at, we're in an age right now where there's just so many ways to make money in a passive way that it's just like mind boggling. But you have to get that first thing up that gives you the two Fs, right. And that is the freedom of finances and then the freedom of time. So freedom of finances, freedom of time. So that you can now go in and start looking at all of the other things that are out there, like the NFTs, like crypto, like short term rentals or traditional real estate and everything else. So but it's getting that first Thing up and running and staying focused and.

Doing so maybe that's a good spot to end this puppy, huh? Because we went all over the fact. Yeah. But entrepreneurs, I think that's a great thing to just ground yourself in at all times. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Where can people who want to dive deeper down the tycoon rabbit hole, where should they go after listening into this?

Yeah. So if you want to learn how to generate passive income, Right. You can go. We've got two things. So you can go to kindle cash flow.com which will show you more about the processes of publishing Kindle books on Amazon if you want to attend one of our live events. And they're virtual, Right. So we do virtual live events. Do three day events. Don't get fooled by that because the first day you're going to love it and you're going to be like, man, it should be a five day event. You can go to kcf live.com so kcf live.com you come in and you'll join thousands and thousands of other people from across the planet. We get together for three days. Our next one is coming up and you guys should tune in. You get a chance.

Yeah, I'm on the page right now. Well, you said. What's that? January 7th. Is that the next one or do you have a.

That's the next one. January 7th. Got it. 8th and 9th.

Got it.

Anyone that's watching this or listening to this, you can get a free ticket by going to kcflive.com awesome.

Thanks, Ty. Love what you're doing, man. I'm happy we got to connect and chat about it all, man. It seems like there's probably a lot more. We covered a lot. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Appreciate the time.

All right, guys, great show. Appreciate it as well. Thank you.

Awesome. I hope you enjoyed that episode. That was definitely one of the more tactical episodes we had in a while. I think we've got a full blueprint on how to make a Kindle book and how to actually launch and grow a Kindle book and also how to grow your wealth off the money you're making off your Kindle books, if that's what you decide to do with your money. So really, really, really great episode. Thanks so much to Ty Cohen for hanging out with us. It was a phenomenal one. I'm sure we'll be talking to him again in the future. And I want to give a couple quick shout outs before we wrap up this episode. If you don't already, make sure that you go and grab Easy Webinar it is the best webinar platform out there. It is the easiest webinar platform out there. It does the automated webinars, the hybrid webinars, the live webinars. It does all of the webinars. It builds the landing pages for you. It helps collect the leads for you. It keeps all the analytics for you in the back end. It is an all in one amazing webinar platform. And easy webinar is hooking up Hustle and Flowchart listeners. So if you go to EasyWebinar.com.

You'Ll get a discount just because you're a listener of Hustle and Flowchart. So again, that's easneewebinar.com hustle go grab that. And final reminder, you can grab the notes from this episode by going to hustleandflowchart.com notes you get the full Cliff Notes breakdown. All the action steps, everything we talked about in this episode will be available over there. Hustleandflowchart.com notes thanks again so much for listening. Watching. Wherever you're paying attention to this episode, we really, really, really appreciate you tuning in. Share this episode with somebody that you think could get some great value out of it. If you know somebody that's doing Kindle Books, somebody that's looking for a side hustle to make some extra money online, shoot them this episode. Let them know that there is really, really cool and fun ways to make money online using things like Kindle Books. So point them in this episode, grab the notes, hustleandflowchart.com notes and that's that's it. I'm done with my calls to action for this one. Thanks again for listening. See you guys in the next one.