Tyrone Shum - How To Grow A Podcast Past 1 Million Downloads

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf.

Joey. Hey, yo, yo.

Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

Yo, yo. Hello.

Yo. Hello.

We're back again, this time with another podcaster.

Yes.

That's not just you or me.

Yeah, I love talking to podcasters. Podcasters are some of my favorite people to talk to.

Mmm.

Why is that?

Because I love podcasting.

Okay, well, I know that, but, yeah, I guess podcasters like to talk. Can't shut them up. But they usually have good ideas.

Yeah.

In a good way.

Because, like, you'll go for all day long.

They have good ideas around how to grow a podcast and how to monetize a podcast, which are two of my favorite topics to talk about.

I would say they're pretty up there for us. Yeah, for sure. And that's exactly what we're talking about today with Tyrone Chum. And this dude is running a massive podcast over in Australia. He is one of the. The top itunes or I guess, or Apple podcast podcast now in the real estate space. It's called Property Investory. And this thing gets what, one point. I think it's 1.3 million downloads now since 2017, which is. That's quite the feat.

Yeah.

If you got that many people listening to you, you're doing something right. You know how to grow, and you probably know how to monetize the show pretty well at that point.

Yeah, I think he's got the. I think you said this, but he's got the number one real estate podcast in Australia. 1.2 million downloads. 300, I think he said, reviews.

Over 300 episodes.

300 episodes. Over 200 reviews. He's doing good stuff with podcasting, and we're proud to be working with him. You'll hear some interactions that we have with him where we're kind of talking about ideas that we gave him and ideas that he gave us. So we're kind of working real closely with him. So we're all growing our podcast together, and you're going to hear a lot of those ideas.

But I think, you know, one of the big takeaways from this episode is if you're not podcasting yet, we're going to really kind of hammer in on all of the exciting things that you're missing out on by not, like, paying attention to podcasting right now.

Yeah. What's really cool, I think with Tyrone's story is that he. You'll hear literally from like, day one what he kind of regretted back in the Podcast before starting his show, his fears around podcasting, which is something we all have. And he's a very.

He'S a very systematic guy around everything he does, and he does a lot, but it's also very kind of automated or systemized. So he explains exactly what his systems are and the different things he's done to not only kind of launch his show, grow his show, but make money with his show as well. And yeah, throughout the conversation, Matt and I are like riffing back and forth of like, kind of kind of like war strategies or war war stories around growing our show and making money. Because it's not the standard, hey, let's, let's just make money with CPM sponsorships or getting our guests to share. And that's the only way we promote shows, because that's not.

Yeah, I mean, if you want to go behind the scenes of what we love about podcasting, our insecurities around podcasting, the things we don't like about podcasting, we're going to take you behind the scenes on how we all, what we feel about all of that stuff. But we also talk about how to get big name guests on your show. Some very, very actionable tactics to get big name guests on your show. We get very tactical about once you've had cool guests on your show, how do you maintain that relationship? How do you continue to follow up with these people that are now in your network because they've been on your show? We go into all sorts of growth strategies, a few of them that Joe and I weren't even aware of before going to this call that we're going to implement ourselves. We go into a bunch of different monetization strategies, ways to make money with your podcast, a few of them Joe and I haven't experimented with, and we're excited to test some of them in our own business. So it's a pretty all encompassing episode, all about everything exciting in the podcasting world, everything we don't like about podcasting and all of the sort of tactics that run all of our shows.

So basically, yeah, I just counted it up here actually is, I think he gave 10 growth strategies, even if you're starting a show or if you have an existing podcast already, and about seven or eight monetization strategies where you can actually make money with this thing that are not including the boring sponsorships that you typically hear podcasters making money with because that's not how you typically make money when you're starting off.

So you'll hear that, I mean, really, at the end of the day. This is a fricking masterclass in. I would say growing and profiting with your show, which actually, Matt. So let's talk about this really fast. Cause we have our Pod Hacker Masterclass, which is part of. It's kind of like the. Well, it is the masterclass of everything that we do podcasting related. And we have this cap method, we call it. So the cap that's the creation is what the C A amplify, which is, you know, grow your show and then profits is P, which is monetize. So we basically have created this model of what we're doing, but also what folks like Tyrone are doing. He actually works with us, but you'll see that we're very like peers. We're helping each other. At the end of the day, which is really cool with our masterclass is like, that is a. I would say that that's a group of folks who are taking podcasting seriously, even if they're just launching the show from day one.

There's like a connection to a business or a profitable thing with that content that they're going to put out there. Which is what I really love with Tyrone, is that this ain't just some, you know, million downloaded podcast that has no end result. The dude has like 10 different ways he's making money with his show. And they're all super strategic and super, you know, out of the box thinking that just. Yeah, that's where we. That's where we love, like. Yeah, yeah. It's just the creativeness of it all.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the Pod Hacker Masterclass, if you're interested in going through that, you know, shoot us a message info at Evergreen profits. We'll get you all the details. We actually don't have a sales page or anything like that.

We might by the time this goes live.

That is true. There might be something. But if it's not available, like in our show, notes below, reach out and it is for sale. You can.

We'd love to have it, but you have to be serious. Like, I think, like I was saying, like, it doesn't matter if you want to be serious about any of that. Like, that's the thing for you. Those are the people we love working with.

There was so much good stuff in this episode that I wish I had some notes on it.

That would be very nice.

Wish I had some better notes than what I took while listening to the episode.

Do you think they'll be supplied for this episode?

Actually, I think if you go to hustleandflowchart.com comp, c o m P. You can actually go snag the notes from this episode if you're quick. If it's, like, within two weeks of this episode coming out.

Okay, what do you think? What do I think that they're there.

I think that they're there because I think you. You listening to this. You're listening to it right when it's coming out, and you can go grab these notes for free. And so that's why I think they're there.

Oh, okay.

So, hustleandflowchart.com comp, you can also, if you don't, if you're not near a computer, you can also shoot a text message. If you text the word comp c o m p to the number 38470, that is 384470. Comp is the word you're texting to. 38470.

There it is.

We'll send you the notes that way, too. So multiple ways to get these notes.

And they are there. I just checked. I verified. We do have extensive notes for this episode, so make sure to go there.

Yeah. Unless you're late, then they're gone.

Well, you could always. There's options for that. But still join, because we'll give you that option. It's a pretty sweet option too. Yeah.

Hustleandflowchart.com comp or text the word comp to 38470. Let's go have a nice little chat with Tyrone Shum.

Hey.

Hey, Tyrone. How you doing, man? Excellent, man.

Yourself.

We're doing amazing podcast day. This is like, our favorite time of our business. It's just like, what? We love you too. I mean, you're right in the thick of it all as yourself, you know, podcasting.

Awesome. Yeah, yeah. It's been amazing. And just to be able to hear and actually finally get to chat to you guys and meet you kind of over sort of zoom to have this conversation. I am so, so grateful because, you know, I've been following your podcast and listening to everything that you guys say and all the interviews you've done, and I'm like, wow, I just want to do what you guys are doing all the time.

It's just so funny you're saying that, and you're like, you're the dude over there that has, what, over a million downloads? Probably like, way more now. And what one of the top podcasts in Australia right there with our buddy James Schramko.

Thank you.

So good work yourself, man. It's like, hats off to you.

Yeah, I mean, we're aspiring to do with our podcast what you've done with your podcast. Podcast.

Well, that's awesome, man. We'll just swap hats now.

Y' all got something to learn from each other. So it's all. It's perfect. Oh, man.

Love it.

Yeah. Well, let's. Yeah. And you're, you know, we're working together, and, you know, you're working with us on the podcast pod, hacker, podcast accelerator. Side of things, we can't keep track of all the names that we're calling this thing. Sorry for anyone.

Gosh, guys, just stick with one name.

Just trying to make it better.

No. So, yeah, I mean, just like through our relationship there. The fact. The way that you think and approach podcasting, I think, is so interesting and unique in the way you apply it to business specifically, I think is very cool. It's very fascinating. And I think that's the. Like, in the world of podcasting, when people are starting it out, that typically the question is, how do I make money with this thing? And you're over here doing it in very strategic ways that are different from most ways I've heard, and I think that's what really allows you to stand out. Obviously, you've grown the show really big, too, so that's a really big factor of it all. So I'd love to cover a lot of that on this show.

Yeah, no, thank you so much. And I have to say a majority, and I will give you guys full credit for this, because when I did actually sign up and start working with you guys, a lot of things have really. The techniques, the strategies have changed my mindset on the way to approach it. Because initially, when I first started podcasting, the whole idea for me was just to try and get sponsorship in, you know, get the big banks on, get all the big telecom communication companies because they actually tapping their investors and so forth. That'd probably be the way, because I was initially inspired by Johnny Lee Dumas podcast, where, you know, he was getting like a million downloads a month. And I thought, great, you know, let's have a crack at that and see if we can do something like that. And when I first started doing that, it was really, really challenging when I first started, because there was just starting from zero. To bring up even just 100 listeners to the show was a real, real, just hard grind. And I guess over that period of time, since learning so many new different tactics and strategies from what you guys have been putting out, man, it just changes the mindset, and you don't have to actually do so hard to actually try and bring your numbers up. The main thing is now being very strategic with putting those partners in place and happy to share those kind of strategies that I've been applying and how it's worked for us.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Before we do, let's talk a little bit about your podcast. What's the concept behind it? You know, what kind of things do you talk about? Just kind of, let's kind of give the audience a little bit of an overview of the podcast that we'll be talking about for the next 45 minutes or so.

The show and the business. Like kind of both of them.

Yeah, yeah.

Hand in hand.

Sure, sure. So the podcast initially was started off for selfish reasons. I'll be honest with you guys with that, because initially I actually just wanted to just tap the guys shoulders, these property experts, the investment gurus who we hear all around the media across Australia. And I thought, gosh, you know, how can I actually get access to these without necessarily have to attend the seminars and, you know, buy all the equipment and all the tools and resources and courses and stuff like that. And what was kind of like that turning point for me was I was listening to a number of podcasts and also going back in like 2016 when one of my friends was also being featured in one of the most popular Australian, a property magazine, investor magazines out there. And when I saw him featured in there, I thought, holy moly, how did he get there? Because he's probably maybe about three or four years younger than me and he's accumulated in such a short period of time, like within maybe about a space of a year, he had bought six properties. And I'm like, how'd you do it? And then a few years later he told me he's got 20 properties. I'm like, come on, you got to tell me the secret behind it. And he said, well, some of them have been because he's been able to tap into amazing coaches and experts and the resources that they provide out there and he's just basically implement everything that they've been talking about. So that kind of got me started on that journey to start creating this because I was following a lot of the great successful podcasts out there and they were talking about the how to invest into property, where to buy and so forth. But the biggest issue that I found, and this is something that I kind of had stuck in myself with, like what's, what's the why behind it? What are these, what are these people trying to share with us? I want to hear about their background story, because it's very easy to hear about a guy earning a million dollars just from investing into property and then accumulate 20 properties. And that's inspiring in itself. But the thing is, why? Why is he doing all that? And a lot of times when I was hearing this podcast, it was just very much the specific information about where to go invest. You know, look at the strategies that you can actually do to buy this particular property, do, like, a renovation, then you pull your equity out and buy another property, and blah, blah, blah. Long story short, it was like that kind of aha moment. And it took me almost about a year to actually want to do something like this, because I had it in the back of my mind, I was trying to work every day, listening to the same podcast, and it just struck me. I said, why is no one doing it? And I said to myself, gosh.

Do I have the capacity to actually do something like this? And it took me pretty much a year before I actually jumped in and decided, all right, I'm going to get out there and start speaking with all these experts and perhaps just learning so much from them, having their guidance under their wings and learning from them, and then taking that and then sharing it with the world. And it just went from that big change of an aha moment to get started. And I think also, too, it's because I was involved with James Franco's superfast business Mastermind group there, and being part of that community, they'll constantly talk about creating membership site programs. And also podcasting was one of the other things. It wasn't very, very much in detail in terms of how they did podcasting so far, but the idea of actually creating a residual income or recurring income through membership sites was something that really resonated with me. And I thought, how could I actually take the two of these, whether it be through property or through the podcast or anything, and turn that into some kind of membership model where I could actually attract clients in and offer them a great service, but also receive a recurring income. And that's kind of where that kind of started. And that's how this whole business turned into a podcast. And basically, in that first year, I went from 0 to 40,000 downloads and applying a lot of the tactics and strategies that you guys have talked about. And I've learned from a lot of different podcasts out there and just actioning those, you know, some work, some didn't. And through that kind of learning experience, it turned from 0 to 40,000 downloads a month to over. Now, 1.2 to 1.3 million downloads since I started about two years ago. So that's the kind of story that.

I think the part that I like the most about, like what you were just saying there, is that you approached it with a very smart monetization model, really from the beginning, where it ties to your business with the membership site. Like you were saying, you got that from James and doing that. I think a lot of folks don't approach podcasting in that way, you know, from like day one.

Yeah, and I totally agree, like a lot of us out there initially started off just to, I guess, want to create a podcast that was interesting and also share the knowledge. Because I guess I wanted to fill that gap not necessarily just only for myself, but also for the listeners. Because when I spoke to a lot of listeners out there, they said exactly the same thing. The reason why Property Investor Podcast stands out is because it tells a story. It's not like any other podcast out there where you actually delve into the background about where they grew up, all the way through to how they got started in property. And that kind of paints a picture, which is very important because I think people resonate and remember stories a lot more than say, a how to specific tactic and trick. And I guess that's probably what I've learned over this journey and want to impart to people who actually want to podcast is make sure that whenever you are looking at doing podcasts to tell a story in between and because that's what people remember, like, this is what I love about the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, is because when you actually invite a guest on, you actually delve into their backstory and find out how they got started, even way before they go into, say, marketing or digital things or even SEO and so forth. Because that backstory paints a picture of who they really are. And it gives you that inspiration because they can start from nothing to build up to a multi billion dollar business. And that's the exciting part behind it. Then people go, okay, I want to listen to this guy more because he's done that, but also I want to use his strategies. And that's how we kind of structured the whole podcast to ensure that the first half of the podcast, where we start the episode is to actually just spend a lot of time building up their story, finding out their childhood, what they did for work, where they went to, you know, get married, all those kind of interesting things, because it just kind of paints that story. Then we jump into finding out, okay, where was their first investment property and we jump into how they built their portfolio and so forth.

Yeah, no, I think. I think it's an important aspect because your listeners need to relate with the person you're bringing on. If you bring somebody on who's had a ton of success and you just talk to them about how they got that success, and you just talk tactics, tactics, tactics, then your listeners are, you know, this is just sort of my own theories, but your listener is gonna listen to that show, and they're gonna feel like, well, they can do it, but I could never do that. Where if you get that whole story and you kind of get the beginnings of it, then you relate to the person who's on the episode, and you start to understand that, you know, they've been in similar positions that the listeners are probably in right now, but they, you know, employed these tactics to get out of that situation. And so I think. I think you've. For a podcast to be successful, I think the people on the podcast have to be relatable.

Yeah, totally. Totally. And that's the interesting thing about it, is that I guess that's the reason why you guys ask about that story, is because you think, you know, if this guy has started from nothing, who has had another podcast, and that's. I'm referring to myself, not to give myself a bit of a boost or anything, but I started from nothing. Honestly. It's not like I. I had a thousand followers already on my podcast. I started literally from zero from the day I started. But I implemented the strategies that I was taught. And that's the thing. It's just all about taking action and applying the things that you learned, because you can have all that knowledge in your head, which I did for a whole year. And I was still like, why did I not start this earlier and not do any action? But then you got to find that emotional kick and drive inside of you that makes that big change. And I think at that point in time, I still remember very clearly it was actually 2016 Christmas, that I went, okay, I really, really have to start this. And that's when I just went bang. I went started and just started doing, like. I think I did, like, 20 or 30 interviews in that first month just to try to get the podcast up and running. And once you get in that flow, gosh, you just don't want to stop. That's what happened the whole time.

It does get pretty addicting after a while, especially the new connections and, like, friends you're making along the way. Then everybody just helps you out because they're sharing things around, giving you new ideas.

Well, really quick, just to delve into your backstory a little bit. I know we've been talking about kind of bouncing around. We're kind of playing with kind of a newer structure with the story arc of the beginning of these shows. But where would you say, maybe a couple points that you felt, looking back in time, that you're like, man, I really wish I did this differently or maybe I did this thing sooner. I'm sure the podcast falls in that. But in relation with your business and the podcast as a whole or something that you would have done, you know, just like now, in retrospect, you're just like, okay, Yep.

What do you wish you knew back then that you know now?

Yeah, that's a really, really good question. I wish I knew. And coming from both sides, from both the business side and the property side, I wish I knew more experts that. That actually gave me support and encouragement because I think that's where it really drove me because I kept shying away from talking to these experts as per se, but they're just, you know, like everyday people with me, like you and me. The only difference is that they spent a lot of time crafting their skill, their expertise, and just building up that knowledge base. And if I had just started two or three years earlier than with them alongside, I think, you know, things in perspective, I would have just been a lot further than I am now. Not saying that I haven't taken a great leap from where I started, but I think that's the thing. I should have actually just reached out to them much earlier. And I think there's fear. Fear was probably the biggest thing that held me back for that period of time because I didn't know what to expect. I don't know if it was going to work. I don't know if they're going to say no. And when you get that first no, that rejection, you think, oh, this guy probably doesn't want to talk to me because I'm a nobody. But once you actually get those few who you reach out in the right way and get them to come onto the podcast and share their story, and then you say, hey, look, you know, so and so from X, Y and Z have come onto the podcast recently and you just piggyback off them, the success just continues to ride. And that's. That's how I've done it. And that's what I did initially when I first started, because I learned that, you know, if you just name drop a few people that they know in the industry straight away, it brings up your, I guess, level of confidence for them to know that you're not just a nobody out there. Because a lot of people just start these podcasts and try and reach out to all the top experts in no matter what niche they are. And a lot of times these people just don't have the time to share because you've got a small audience or even close to zero. They probably don't want to spend their time for that hour to be interviewed and then shared out to almost no one. So I think the challenge that everyone in myself faced was that fear factor. And I have to admit, it's something that I think just naturally everyone goes through that phase. But if you can overcome that and then just start taking action, that that action step that you take will eliminate a lot of the fear you still have in the back of your mind subconsciously. But at the same time, the more action you take, the less it becomes scary to do. That's.

That's good. Yeah, it's like the whole momentum concept. It's like once you have momentum and you're just putting stuff into action, you kind of like stop the overthinking of stuff. And momentum just breeds more momentum.

Well, even when it comes to guests, too. It's like once you've had that sort of higher profile guest on, it's easier to get more higher profile guests. And then once you've had a handful of higher profile guests on, it's even easier to get more higher. And, you know, it just, it gets easier and easier to get people on and to chase people up and to get the right connections to the people you want to know. In fact, that's one of the reasons I love podcasting so much, is that podcasting is like a shortcut to networking with people.

Totally, totally. It is one of the best and fastest form. And eventually they start coming out to you because they start seeing that your podcast is ranked number one or in the top five or top ten of iTunes and so forth. And that's what's been happening. Like some of the people that I really, really want it on my dream list, they just started reaching out to me and like, oh, great problem there, right?

Yeah, no, that's exactly what happens. It's this. You're building a platform online and you kind of don't realize that you're actually getting a lot of attention in doing this. Even if you're not on the charts, you don't even need to be on this charts. But if you are I mean, it's all the better, but you know, just the sheer amount of just the viral social sharing within one person's network and, you know, they're connected to this other network and then it just gets kind of passed around. And if you're consistent, anything with consistency just gets bigger and bigger. So it's podcasts. It kind of forces you to be consistent like you are. And we are too, at like two shows a week.

Yep, yep, Totally agree. And that's the beautiful thing about it right now. Like, it's getting to that point that it is starting to tip over a little bit more. That, you know, initially when we first started a few years ago, it was just the brink of podcasting starting to take off. But now since like, for example, like Gimlet got purchased out by Spotify not long ago, and I've been following Alex Bloomberg as well for his podcast and startup, lot of people now jumping on and I've noticed, like, big companies, like in Australia we've got some big development companies like Frasers Property and Meryton and Metricon and all those ones, and they're all starting to come on with their own podcast. Same thing. The banks. Banks are actually creating joint ventures between each one. I think it was Westpac and GE formed a joint venture podcast to come on and create that amazing show. So they're seeing the value of how it's tapping in. And for them, instead of actually spending money on probably getting onto radio, which I know that they still do, but, like, they see that having their own podcast, their own followings, they get to be able to communicate directly with their audience instead of having to go through another meeting, which is very, very hard to measure at this point in time, both like TV and radio. So this seems like an amazing platform. And now that we're at such a great stage in it at this, at this time, there's so much more potential for the future. So that's why I'm really, really excited about podcasting as well.

Yeah, I mean, even in the TV and film industry, they're leveraging podcasts. We've heard this from multiple different sources now that when, you know, somebody has an idea for a TV show or a movie and they bring it to, like the head of a studio to make the movie, pretty much the way things work nowadays, the studio head's gonna say, go make a serial episodic or no serial podcast around that storyline. If the podcast does well, then we'll, you know, we'll commission it for an actual TV show or a movie. So a lot of the entertainment industry is actually testing content ideas with podcasts now because the barrier to entry is so much lower. And then the stuff that does work, they're going and making TV shows and movies out of. I mean, even, you know, you mentioned Alex Bloomberg. There was literally a TV show made out of that guy's story. It was called Alex Inc. Yeah, yeah.

I heard about that. I still haven't seen it yet because I've heard that people saying that that particular TV show that they created didn't really, I guess, mimic what had happened on his actual podcast itself. The podcast was a lot more interesting from the reviews I heard. I don't know about you, but it is.

The TV show is not great, and I think it got canceled, so that's saying something. But, you know, the fact that it got canceled is neither here nor there, but it's just sort of like evidence that this stuff is really on the rise.

Yeah, totally, totally. You know, let's hope to see Hustle and Flowchart on the TV show in the near future.

Hey, man, we got plans to do some video stuff and get a little more bingeable with our content.

Oh, yeah. That is sort of the next rabbit hole that we've really been going down and studying is how do you make content completely bingeable? So people just want to keep going to the next one and the next one and the next one.

Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, that's the trend where everything's going. And there are actually podcasts and a lot of big companies using content in creative ways, and podcasts is just part of it. But, you know, if you're. If you're creating visuals around all this, it could be repurposed into podcasts and all these other assets that are super consumable everywhere. So it's exciting.

Totally. It's exciting. And that's what I love about what you guys talk about, because one of the strategies that I've taken away from what you've been teaching us is the repurposing and distribution strategy. And that's worked exceptionally well for. For my business because thing is, before I used to just rely heavily just on itunes to be able to get the word out and also rely on the guests to be able to post it out to their networks, on Facebook and all the social media channels. But now that we've actually been repurposing and distributing three different mediums from video, audio, and text and so forth across all the different platforms that you recommend, and that's what you guys do as well. It just has brought in so much more breadth to our business because we're not just relying on one channel. We've actually got multi channels now to be able to distribute the content. And I think people consuming in so many different ways. Like I know that people coming through from Spotify now, which I never used to have, and I've known that people actually reading our PDFs because it's now out there on SlideShare and all these other channels. And furthermore, you know, the videos are all over Facebook and so forth. So these repurposing concepts is a very simple thing. And it took me a while to sort of just understand, okay, how am I going to do this? Because it's not just something you're just going to implement overnight. It does take time to actually put these systems and processes in place. But with your guidance and your help, I've been able to implement these in hire more staff to be able to help me do it. Because this is the stuff that will actually help us build up the brand even further across the web. And you know, it's working phenomenally really, really well for us as well too. That's awesome.

Yeah. And that's. Thank you for saying that. I think that's really cool. And we're actually even upping our repurposed game a little bit further. So you'll hear more about that as well. Yeah, because that's the biggest thing is it almost killed Matt and I. We're like, man, we're going to put all this energy into this hour long interview, which we're going to love, and we're going to have a great conversation, but it's only going to be as a podcast. It's like, why no, this thing needs to be seen everywhere. And we're now experimenting a lot with LinkedIn and we're seeing so many people connecting on there. And that's B2B. It's perfect for us. It'd be perfect for you as well. I'm sure you're already on there, but yeah, there's just so many good organic ways to get growth of a show. And it's not like there's really a magic bullet. Unfortunately, it's just consistency.

Well, I think one of my biggest, I mean, I have a lot of frustration with podcasting. I think that the tracking is in the ancient times still and discoverability is still fairly difficult. But one of my other biggest issues with podcasting is that people seem to devalue episodes with time. So, like episodes that we recorded a year ago kind of don't get any love anymore. And that just bugs the heck out of me because the content we were creating two years ago, three years ago on this show is still just as valuable today as it was then. And I feel like bringing the repurposing stuff into the mix and highlighting clips and you know, we even have our short show, which is like a clip show from older episodes and things like that. It helps us kind of continually bring good content to the forefront that a lot of people might discard just because of the age of it.

Totally. And that's been the biggest challenge I face now. I mean, I've got over 350 plus episodes and iTunes has a limit of like 300 that they display on itunes. And I get to that point where I go, okay, all the first few that I've recorded, probably the first batch of 100, because I've had so many great experts and well known media gurus have talked about property on the show. They're the ones that I want to bring back to the front. So I'm actually doing very, very similar to actually what you guys are doing is basically taking the current content that's existing there and then just repurposing it. Like in the sense that when I say repurposing for us is that we actually change the background music to update it a little bit more to today's new format that we've got, changing some of the way that things are scripted, turning in the story form, etc. So we actually go into the edits of it. But then I would chop those up into little snippets and then put them out as mini trailers for like maybe a 2 minute trailer or 10 second snippet that goes onto YouTube or whatever it is. So I'm pretty much doing very, very much what you guys have been teaching as well and trying to apply. That just takes a fair amount of time because the system to actually get that in place is ongoing. It's an in progress kind of thing. But it just goes to show how big the machine can become. Because nowhere in the world would I have ever thought that I would have had that many podcasts within a two year period because it just, it just kept going. And now, now instead of actually going, where am I finding this content? It's like I've got too much content. I've got to figure out how am I going to get that content out to the right people and then find the best content. So I think that that's what I'm trying to do and work out right now. And I've been listening to other podcasts such as like How I Built this with Guy Ross and npr. And I'm noticing what they do is they just repurpose or republish old content two years ago and say, hey, you know, this was two years ago. This is an amazing story. Please, you know, if you guys haven't heard of it, listen to it again. And that's what, you know, we can do as podcasters to be able to get more traction. Because if you've already got a following getting like, you know, 6,000, 8,000 downloads per episode, you know, the people who may have just started recently listening to your show may have not even jumped back two, three, four years ago when you've actually created those ones. And then to bring them back to the top doesn't you know, it makes all your content shine even more because your old content is just as valuable and spot on what you guys have said, you know, it's just try and bring that back up to the forefront of people's minds.

Yeah, no, I think that's, that's really smart. That's something we haven't really done too much is pull old episodes. I, we've done it a little bit, you know, like I had some higher profile names that I interviewed five, six years ago and I almost did it for like egotistical reasons of like, I want to see this person's name in our feed side, like bring some of that older content up. But that's really, really smart to kind of make, you know, do it systematically and more methodically than that.

Well, it's smart.

Yeah. And there's a lot of ways you can approach that is not only just re release the episode or maybe even snippets and combine it into like a, a themed episode from stuff from the archives. You can even bring in that guest again. We do a lot of repeating guests, the people that are most popular. We're definitely going to bring them back.

I'm going and recording that. Those guys that were, I'm recording a podcast with them in person. They're from la and anyway they have like a really cool thing where they like every like eighth episode or something is like a roundup episode where it'll be for example, I don't know examples for their show. But an example with our show would have been like, here's the 10 best YouTube traffic strategies we've gotten from our show. And then they would pull little like 5 minute clips from 10 different shows of somebody giving a YouTube tip. And then they'd sort of make this repurposed roundup episode of clips from people talking about YouTube on past episodes.

That's awesome. And that's kind of where I'm actually thinking of 2020 to change up my podcast to do that. Because I want to sort of become more like a startup podcast where I'm starting to actually put together a story and a theme instead. Because at the moment it's mostly interviews where we do edit and then put into a specific format and a story kind of format. But what we've been doing, because as I said, we've got so much content that's buried underneath few hundred episodes ago. Like, I would probably pick one topic, for example, I'm actually working on one right now for probably January. And for listeners out there who haven't heard my podcast or have been following me and thinking, okay, he's been doing stories, probably this, this one is kind of a little sneak peek, is I'm planning to probably do a topic on property development for the listeners out there and pulling out all the great property developers out there and then just basically, not necessarily a roundup, but just telling a story from a question that people ask. And one of the questions that people always ask is how do these property developers make so much money? You know, they're not making just, you know, tens of thousands of dollars. They're making millions and millions of dollars just from development. And that question always comes up and pop, you know, is always a very, very popular question as well. So, yeah, it's. It's just phenomenal to be able to do something like that. And I think as time progresses and I want to try and make this podcast to be a, a very high production quality podcast which people want to listen to as well.

Yeah, for sure. You're definitely doing it right. I wanted to. So what are some other growth strategies that you've found? So repurposing is huge. And of course now you have a lot of good momentum and you do a handful of other things it looks like, but guide us through maybe a couple of the things that we can give listeners here thinking about starting issue.

From scratch or also what have been your personal biggest. What have been the biggest wins for you with growth? Like a handful of things that you've seen have been the most effective.

Yeah, totally. So I'm going to take a step back then we'll go back to when I first started because a lot of those strategies that I applied back then still work today. It's just a matter of how you Want to approach it and then take it on. So initially, when I first started to actually get the podcast onto itunes, you probably don't want to just put out maybe one, you know, one podcast initially. You want to put out a number. So I think when I first started, I had six podcasts lined up. So that way I had six guests who are ready to promote. And I gotta admit, you know, everyone says that you just gotta try and get your guests to promote your podcast, promote their story and so forth. And they usually would do that. But it's not as easy as it sounds, because in that first launch and try making a launch, those six people, I probably only got maybe three out of the six that committed to actually promote the podcast out to their list. And even then it was very, very slow trickles in. It wasn't like 100,000 people coming in listening to podcasts, maybe like 10, 15 or this is the reality of it. And I don't want to sugarcoat anything because for anyone starting out, you got to give it some time. And it took me at least about six to nine months to actually start to see this exponential growth that brought from 0 to 40,000amonth downloads. But the challenge is staying in that frame set that, you know, okay, you got to stick it through. You can't just give up by saying, okay, you've only got maybe 10, 15 people listening. So the thing I've learned is that you've got to release consistently. That's the key point about actually doing podcasting, because once your listeners start getting hooked on, they expect that you will release at a certain time. So for me, mine's a pretty solid schedule where we released at least minimum two episodes a week. So either on a Wednesday and Friday, we have those two spots filled up with guest episodes being released. And then on Monday we have an actual separate guest, like a Q and a session or topical kind of, yeah, I guess, story that we bring in from specific experts that we bring back onto the podcast, which I'll share with you the reason behind that later on, because that's a sort of a monetization method behind that one. So essentially we have like three episodes that go out. But taking a step back to where I started from that initial first zero to six months or so, it was pretty much every time I had a guest that was posted out there, I'd reach out back to them via email and let them know that their guest was pretty much out there. And please, you know, feel free to share it out there. And then we did the usual posting out to Facebook. I also reached out via a few people and try to get them onto the email list and so forth. And even back then I had absolutely no one on my email list is like zero subscribers when I first started. And you know, you had these get all the website set up and all the back end stuff like using email, autoresponder and all that kind of stuff, which took a little bit of time but eventually got there. And as time kind of progressed, when you start seeing smaller guests that come on, even though they've got like smaller amounts of subscribers on there, so they may have like 2,000, 3,000 people on the list compared to someone who I know some of the experts, like I have 100,000 people on the list, those ones seem to have a lot more engaged audience that come through. So when I actually found a few of those, and I had maybe about 10, 15 of those kind of smaller property investors who were deemed as experts in the market, but had a much smaller list, their list were very, very engaged. And as soon as they posted on Facebook or posted out to their list, I started seeing those things just ramp up traffic to the show as well. So that was probably the biggest thing I did initially up front was to keep it consistent, send it out to the guests as soon as the posts were released and to encourage and ask them if they wouldn't mind sharing with their list. Nine times out of ten they'll say it's not a problem, it's just whether or not they get around to it that's the issue.

Because they'll say yes, but you don't see it happening maybe for a week or two, or maybe they forget, that's the thing, they get busy. So. But I totally understand that. And that's the way I had to make a follow up and just not to be too pushy or anything maybe two or three weeks later to say, hey, how's things going? Did you have a great response from your podcast? And also too, I strategically set it up this way. Normally when I interview the podcast guests onto the show, it's an hour long interview. And what I do is I chop it up into two parts as well too. So first part I usually released that first week and then about three or four weeks later I released the second part. So therefore I've got a three or four week gap and therefore I can reach out to them twice as well. So that's how I was able to continue to bring them back in. Because if you say something the first time, say, hey, your part one's Gone out. Great. And they don't do anything, then I've still got a potential chance to reach out to them the second time around. And usually by that time around they've. Okay, they've had people actually reach out to them and say, hey, I've heard about your story. Then they go, oh, okay, it's actually working. Let me promote it out to my list. So it kind of became.

Yeah, I'm actually impressed that you're getting people to actually email their list. It seems like, you know, we reach out to people and we, you know, we ask them to email their list and share it however they can. And it seems like the norm is for them to make a post on Facebook and Twitter and call it a day. So I'm actually pretty impressed that you're getting people to actually mail about your episodes.

Thank you. Well, I have to say it's a different market too, that you have to remember. Property investors a little bit slower in terms of technology side of things. Like, especially in this market, a lot of them are very old school. You're talking to people who are like 50, 60 plus years old who's been in the game for 20, 30 years. And you know, they've had some guy like in their, in their team or in their office helping them just set up an email list that sends out regular emails on their behalf. So they don't really go too much on those kind of things. But it's usually the younger generation that I found the people who have got in a young generation between 20 and sort of 35 years old. Ish. In that kind of range. They're the ones who usually use social media a lot. And you know, I've had stories from both ends of the spectrum and they, they really do work in different ways. So it's been interesting to see the different ways go about it.

And it makes sense too. Yeah, it makes sense with going after the smaller markets or the smaller lists. You know, and this is like the case with smaller podcasts is typically they're the more loyal people who are listening and the ones that will take action. Same with an email list. You know, it's like ours, we prune our list like crazy. And. Yeah, so a lot of folks, if you could target those when starting off, I think that's a great idea. And then incentivizing, because you're actually giving me an idea now, it's like you can incentivize people in many ways to get them to email their list and that could be potentially one of the better growth levers in the early days.

Yeah, I think in our niche specifically, I think you probably get people being a little more protective about their lists.

Marketing niches.

Yeah, because we talk to a lot of entrepreneurs and marketers and we have had people on here with hundreds of thousands, even millions on their lists. And I think a lot of people in our niche at least seem to be much more protective about what they email. But they're pretty open to sharing on social media and talking about it in that way.

Yeah, totally. And this is the thing, you just raised a really good point and just reminded me I was going to share this other thing that I used to do as well too, which I do still do from time to time. But I usually ask the guests in the past who I've known have written books or so if they wouldn't mind actually sending a few free copies. Copy is a way to give away, you know, to incentivize the listeners to subscribe and to download and to reach out to them. And a lot of them have sent me a lot of books. I still got a lot of them actually sitting on the shelf, but I've given away a lot of them as well at the same time. So, yeah, it's been a win, win situation because at the same time their book, most people have either been wanting to buy it or just don't have the resource to be able to get it. And if you can give it away for people who really, really do genuinely want it, then provides a little incentive to get them also too. Whether or not leave a review to subscribe to your list, to download whatever it is, or just even reaching out to the guest and say, hey, I heard about you. And they said, look, send me a book for whatever reason. So that strategy has been working. So if you can ask guests who have books they've written, they want to give them away for free, it's free publicity for them for the cost of their book. And it's definitely much, much cheaper and a lot more leverageable for them than to actually spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a paid campaign. So that's been a really, really powerful strategy in my opinion as well too.

So just to clarify, when you ask somebody to come on the show, you ask them if they have a book they want to give away and you ask for a few copies and then you sort of like raffle them off or, you know, what's the sort of tactic there?

Yeah. So like, I'll give you one example. One of the guys were actually doing a book launch recently and he Was saying to me, you know, look, I've got about 10 books I'd be happy to send across to you to give away. Would you like to do that? And I said, yeah, of course I'd be happy to do that, so why not? So he sent me a whole bunch of them and I said, look, you okay if I just said to my list, if anyone who wants to get a book, just leave a review for us and yeah, we'll send a copy. And they said, yeah, for sure. Just get it out to them, as many people as you can and promote it and so forth. So things like that do work in many ways, and that's the way I've really done it. I mean, you mentioned raffling off there. That could also work as well. So there's so many different strategies. But the way I've done it mostly is just to ask, like, give them a call to action. Say, hey, if you like X, Y and Z, some story, and they've got a free book that they're giving away right now. Usually it's valued at $30, which you can pick up from the bookstore. Or we can give it away if you leave a review for me on X, Y and Z link. And that works wonders.

I like that. And this gave me an idea to promote previous episodes as well, is you can go back now. I was like writing this down as you were talking, but it's like, yeah, we've interviewed so many fricking authors and they're always willing to send us books for us to check out prior to the episode. I'm sure you get that too. But you can go back in time now and maybe create like almost a little mini contest. It's like, hey, we got 10 books. Free books from this person. Run a Facebook campaign or a little mini contest that says, hey, go rate and review first, 10 or maybe 10 at random within this period of time, get free books on us or on the author. But it's just a way to perpetually have, you know, something new going.

Yeah, well, I mean, quite honestly, the podcasting is kind of the new press junket, right? When people release a new book instead of going around and trying to be on all the. I mean, a lot of people still go on like morning shows and stuff like that, but it's now just part of the plan. You go on all these podcasts too. Like, look at when. When Tony Robbins released his last book about finances and stuff. He was on every frickin podcast you can find. Everybody's same with Gary Vaynerchuk. Same with Tim Ferriss. All of those guys, like, that's the new book junket is you release a book and you go on a crap ton of podcasts and tell people about the book.

Yep, I'm nodding my head exactly. That's what happened. That's why I was like, oh, great. You know, these guys who I've been trying to reach out to for months decided to come on my podcast because they said I've got a book to promote and that's how I got them on. So I was like, wow, just got to wait for them to write a book then.

I mean, that is really a trick in itself around getting bigger name guests on is wait until they have a book or something that they really are trying to get out into the world and just time the interview for when they've got something that you can help them promote.

Another strategy is, I mean, you could always obviously buy enough number of books. Sometimes the bigger names want you to buy a certain number of quantity books to get them on. But also speaker fees, everyone has a speaker fee and it's easy for them to, you know, if you pay them a certain amount. We haven't actually had to do this, but I know it's a strategy out there. Or you can donate to a cause that they back or charity or nonprofit or something like that. And you know, just little things like that you're giving value and you could break through just like, hey, can you.

Be on my podcast?

But it's like even if you're a smaller show and you're doing cool and you're like offering to pay them in a certain way, then more likely than not you're at least you're going to get a response.

Well, I mean, quite honestly, people of a certain level, once you've reached like a certain status in your industry, they don't really need your podcast anymore. Right? Like there's like, Richard Branson does not need our podcast to help with his marketing or to get the word out on something. Elon Musk doesn't need to come on our podcast to help spread the word about something. But if you can figure out some other way to provide them with a huge benefit, you're much more likely to get people like that on the show. You know, going back to what Joe just said about offering to support a charity, we have a really, really good friend who, who got in touch with Richard Branson and got to go spend a day with him because she went and supported his charity.

Roland Frazier got Richard Branson to come speak at Traffic and Conversion Summit by essentially investing money towards Richard Branson's charity. So if you can sort of stop thinking about, like, hey, come on my show, because it's going to help you start thinking about other ways outside of the sort of promotional angle of your podcast that you can help guests, and it gets a lot easier to bring people on the show.

I love it. This is a great coaching session for me, too.

We're both learning. Yeah, this is great.

So are there any other really cool growth levers that you've seen work pretty effectively just to kind of continue down that vein?

Yeah. So I did another thing which was interesting, and I was playing around with SEO on itunes as well, because that's how I managed to get the ranking. Because initially, when you first start, you're always checking the rankings. And I'll admit I'll do it literally daily, hourly on my thing because I was, like, excited, and I'm like, great. You know, I'm moving up and stuff. And for a while I was sort of sitting in like, less than, like, 30, under 30 and so forth, and I was like, oh, okay. You know, it's gradually climbing up. But what I did was when I was playing around with some of the keywords on the titles of all the episodes when I first started, it started moving my rankings up and I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. So I start tweaking the title of my podcast, and I started tweaking the way that my episodes were actually posted out with the titles as well. And what I got it down to, because initially is I was sort of putting a lot of keywords in there and trying to get maybe six or seven keywords to try and rank for my title, plus also in episodes. But then what I discovered was, and I read somewhere else that someone was doing this as well, was if you were just putting one keyword or maximum two keywords in the title of your post, they start to rank. So the reason why I guess I'm ranked for Property Podcast and I'm giving away a secret to my competitors is because I put the name Property podcast in my title. So every time someone searches for that, that comes up number one on iTunes. And I don't know if it's something that has not been tweaked in itunes, algorithm or anything. You know, obviously if you did that for Google, it wouldn't work, but for itunes, it still works wonders. And that's what I kind of caught onto. So what I started doing was changing a lot of my back episodes, and just by putting those keywords I want to rank for. And they started coming up. And within maybe about a day, once the episode name was updated, bang, it was just up the top. Okay, this sounds like it's working, so let's try it more. So I started. You know how Google has what they called suggestive keywords in the bottom of their search bar. So whenever you type those in, it will say these are X, Y, Z. Keywords that people are searching on itunes also has the same thing in their search bar as well. So if you just go in there and start typing, say, for example, marketing, it will come up with multiple marketing suggestions as well too. And when you actually see those keywords, you could take those keywords away and plug them into your episodes and then start ranking for them. So that's a little tip that I discovered just by playing and testing and trialing it all out over the period of when I did. And obviously that worked really, really well because once you start getting found, people stop subscribing and bang, you know, it goes up really, really well. Yeah. Another thing I did notice, and this is what I was trying to track as well, and I don't know how accurate this is as well, but ratings don't necessarily really help that much in terms of its rankings for the episodes. That's kind of what I discovered. What was ranking and helping push the things up to rank higher was the sub subscriptions to your episode. So it's great to have ratings, you know, get people to radi still, but it's more of a yes, ego slash also, you know, presence thing for, for people to review and say, you know, look, this, this podcast is fantastic, etc. You know, I've got like 205 reviews on my podcast, which is fantastic and, you know, thanking all my subscribers and all my fans and stuff like that. But I noticed that even if that didn't go up, and I noticed that when my subscription rates go up, I was getting more downloads. So I kind of drew a correlation thinking that's possibly the way. Now, I don't know the algorithm behind itunes, but from testing and seeing, you know, these results, that's probably another way that I've noticed that has been able to help. So if you can try and encourage people just to subscribe to your podcast, I think that also helps with driving more ranking and also getting more downloads for itunes.

It does, yeah.

We've seen the exact same thing. Reviews are pretty much useless. I mean, as you're, I'm sure, very aware, itunes recently sort of changed the Layout, they changed the categories. They kind of. Everything's a little bit different now. But reviews used to help. If you had a lot of reviews, it used to help you get into the section that was there called the what's hot section.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think they took that away. I don't think that's in there anymore. So now I think reviews are pretty much useless other than, you know, for the social proof element and to like people that are just browsing to kind of look and see that, you know, what are other people saying about this? But I don't think it helps at all with rankings. I also don't. We also noticed that downloads themselves don't necessarily help a ton with rankings. It's pretty much the velocity of subscribers.

So new subscribers.

If you're getting a bunch of new subscribers every single day, you'll see yourself climb the ranks. You can be getting 100,000 downloads a day, but if you're not putting new subscribers onto itunes for your show, you won't see your show climb. It's very bizarre how the ranking algorithms work, but it seems to be at the moment purely focused around how many subscribers you're adding.

And that's why we try to do a contest or some kind of giveaway or promotion around subscription or getting new subscribers onto our podcast. So giving away, like we did this last month giving away Bose headphones, like, hey, go get these $300 headphones if you, you know, someone at random. And you know, we'll do these on Facebook using ads or even just organic to our groups. So that's something to experiment with is just, you know, figure out could even be your email list as well. Just a perpetual kind of giveaway that promotes subscriptions to your podcast.

Yeah, that's amazing. And you know, I subscribe to that offer as well too. So. Yeah, it does work.

It does. Yeah. Thank you.

So have you tested any paid strategies to grow your podcast?

I have. I've actually been applying a lot of the remarketing strategies that you've been teaching within the course as well too. And I've been seeing more for branding side of things because people constantly are talking about it and say, hey, I saw your podcast on, you know, Google saw it on Facebook and stuff and. And I know that not necessarily do. I'm posting regularly there, but I know that the paid ads are actually going. And I've been following what you guys have been taught by. I think it was Dennis Yu, those $1 Facebook ads. That's been working really well. A lot of people and especially my team have been saying, wow, you're really getting. It's so cheap and it doesn't cost much per person. So what I've been doing is every single guest that we've had on the past, we just run a small little $1 campaign to be able to get their show out there. Just remarketing out there just for a short period of time. And what we've noticed is that that traffic has been driving them back over to our website and also checking out download. So yes, there has been a correlation behind those paid campaigns have been working. I haven't as yet tested out the other things that you guys recommend like Reddit and so forth, and I would like to try that in the future. It's just that I don't know if there's a big market in Australia for that at this point in time, because I know Reddit's great in the US but when it came to Australia, I was trying to find property Reddit kind of, I guess, yeah, those followings there and it just couldn't find as many in that section. So yeah, it's. I know it's quite cheap to do it from, from what I've seen, but I don't know if I'll get the return. Yeah, yeah, the other campaigns I've been doing and this, this isn't necessarily to drive, I guess, new subscribers or listeners to the podcast, but I've been sending out regular print advertising office to past guests and also new potential businesses that would come on. And I guess this kind of leads into the monetization strategy of what I've been doing because I've noticed what's happened is that for some reason other podcasts have noticed me actually do this because maybe people do actually read printed letters now, surprisingly. But yeah, they seem to have reached out to me and said, hey, you know, I saw your, your printed letter that you sent to X, Y and Z. And I said, oh, okay, that's interesting. And I knew I didn't send it out to them because I don't usually just send it out to my competitor, just no reason. But yeah, I'm noticing that seems to be working and that's probably bringing back more and more people back to the podcast because not only are they listening and checking out the podcast, but they're also showing interest in the offer that I'm presenting to them. And this is one of the monetization strategies that I've been applying slowly and gradually and it's been building up really nicely. And because we've had a demand behind. I've actually had to increase the price of this offer. Now you might be wondering what. What is this offer that he's talking about?

What is through this thing?

I'll break it in a nutshell for you. It's essentially taking on a spin of the membership site model, which I've been following a lot of people like James, yourselves. Everyone's been looking at recurring models. And one of the big pain points that initially came out from my podcast and people emailing me was that people were saying, can you recommend me? Really, really good professionals, whether it be mortgage brokers, buyer's agents, real estate agents. Yeah, and so forth, all the professionals that would be necessarily required to purchase a property or even sell property or manage a property. And I was constantly getting that pretty regularly, every day. And I was like thinking, gosh, you know, I'm happy to refer people to it, but it's just taking a lot of my time because I'm not getting paid to do this and I've got no problem with that, but there's gotta be a more leverageable and scalable way to do this. So I was having a chat to a few people and I said, hey, why don't you just set up like a directory where you can just send it to people there and they can check it out for themselves, where these businesses could be listed with their ratings and reviews and also a little bit more details about them and the reasons why they have this X, Y and Z service. And basically by leveraging and turning this into a directory, it allowed me just to be able to forward all these contacts to there so they can find out directly from the customer how they were, rather than hearing from me? Because I can be only one recommendation. But what happens if you've got 20 or 30 or 100 recommendations on your listing saying that you've done this X, Y and Z directly from their own customers? That's a lot more of a better sell point than it is for me, even though I'm only just one person. So that kind of brought an idea thinking, oh great, I could create a directory behind that. And the way I thought of promote it, rather than doing the normal online methods to try and email them and ask them to check out my offer and look at the landing page and sign up there. I started sending out these five printed, you know, 12 page sales letters, which started getting results. So roughly I was spending, I mean, just in terms of numbers, I was converting about 6% for the amount that I was spending, but I was getting three times return. So I just thought, oh okay, let's keep doing it. And since that demand's been increasing, I've just had to increase the prices from just had to up about another hundred dollars because I just couldn't meet the demand. And that's, I guess it's a good thing to have. And then it kind of spun into another idea because I was thinking, thinking I've got limited spots and I've got limited space and that's been the key to it is I want to make sure I don't just add every Tom, Dick and Harry onto the directory that's involved in property. I want to actually have good quality businesses that I can be assured that these people are going to look after my customers and my listeners and so forth. And it kind of dawned on me thinking why don't I actually see if I can offer like what we call sponsored content. And I've just only recently started doing this and it was actually something I picked up from Alex Alex Bloomberg's Gimlet podcast when I was listening to some of the strategies that they've implemented to grow their, I guess podcast. I don't know if you can say agency, maybe podcast business platform. And one of the things that they did very, very well was to actually offer sponsored content. Now I'm not sure if you guys and listeners know what sponsored content is, but I'll sort of give you a quick sort of summary behind it. Essentially it's taking approach a company who actually is interested in maybe perhaps doing a podcast or writing an editorial or doing something that would be on like a newsfeed or whatever it is. But actually instead of turning it into a direct marketing ad or whatever it is, you turn it actually into a story which tells about something that's related to the company, that's a beneficiary to them. So give me an example. There's been a lot of say for example buyer's agents out there and I said to them, look, we can either do a direct ad in a mid roll for you and we can just do like you know, maybe 15 second or 32nd AD for you and say, look, the reason why this buyer's agent is excellent is because they offer X, Y and Z services. If you want a free consultation, visit X, Y and z for your 45 minute free consultation. $400, okay, that's just a normal ad that we would run and we run that for banks like Me bank, nab, Commonwealth bank etc in Australia and we've done that very successfully. And mind you, they Pay very, very well. So for those kind of ads is great. But then I thought we could actually charge about 10 times more for a sponsored ad where we say, look, you know, to the company, why don't you actually let us help you create this content where we would interview your customer and create a story behind it. Create a story behind how they got involved with you, what the successes have been, what their journey's been like, whether it be good or bad, and, you know, tell the story behind why this company is so great subconsciously and not indirectly, and therefore allowing them to be able to get in touch with directly as a customer rather than as a business. And that kind of sponsored content would definitely deliver a lot more ads. And I've actually tried it on a few companies already to have sponsored, you know, a few of the episodes. And, man, they instantly, as soon as that goes out, they call me and said, hey, I got like 10 leads today. I'm like, wow, okay, it works. Literally the first lead paid for itself. It's like, okay, that's fine. You know, I'm going to keep doing this. So that's kind of the strategy I kind of picked up from a lot of sources. And I noticed that, like, ebay, for example, or westpac and stuff like that, they're starting to put these kind of things into place. Not necessarily just on printed media or on their websites, but they'll start to consider this inside podcasting. Actually, one of the banks that approached me recently did actually give me a story. It wasn't a sponsored ad, but it was sort of like an ad with a story in it. And it did run for about 30 seconds, but did tell a little story. And I was thinking, would it be nice if you could have just given me that client that you asked me to read it out for you, and I could just interview them, let them tell the story.

It'd be way more effective. I mean, that's. Yeah, well, that's the bond with someone actually from a company. And I love that concept and I think I understand it where it's essentially, it's an episode, but it's a sponsored content episode.

That's native advertising instead of a podcast.

That's all it is.

So it's a normal thing. So where that live in, like, a normal release schedule for you? Like one of the.

Yeah, yep. So instead of, say, I released a guest for that week, I'd be releasing a two part of, say, a testimonial from a customer. When I say testimony, it'd be just a story about them. And then it's kind of a testimony for their company. And it'd say, like, you know, this episode is proudly brought to you by X, Y and Z Company. And it just blends in really, really well. And people listen to these very well. Even I do it all the time. Like, I've been listening to Startup Podcast regularly and your podcast, and you guys are always talking about Ahrefs and all these other. And it's just pretty normal. I'm so used to it now that I know exactly what's going on. So I think listeners have. Sorry. Been attuned to that. And it's no different nowadays. But they do resonate as soon as they hear that, though.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I love the concept of the business listing too. I was curious, have you read Nathan Lotke's book, How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital?

I've heard some controversy behind it. One of the podcasts that you guys had a chat to, one guy just didn't want to reach out to him. For some odd reason, I' wanted to actually pull his book. I just keep forgetting to get it. So it's good that you guys reminded me. I will now check it out because it sounds like an interesting book.

It's good.

He does have a whole section in there where he talks a little bit about how he monetizes his podcast. Actually, not a little section. A big chunk of the book is about how he monetizes his podcast. But he talks about how he basically brings people on his podcast, gets them to give them their business numbers and a whole bunch of insights about their business. And then he takes all the data that they share with him on that, and he puts it into, like, an online database, and he charges monthly for people to have access to that online database. And people buy access to the database because they. They get all these insights.

It's a ton of data. Basically. He asks very specific questions to, like, top entrepreneurs or CEOs. And.

Yeah.

And essentially has this listing with a bunch of that important data that these people want to know. So there's a subscription fee to access that data, and it's all derived from his podcast.

That is genius. Actually, now I think about it, because there is a company here in Australia called RP Data, and they collect every single information about every single property, you know, when it's sold, how much it's worth, what is this rented out for, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. And I was like thinking, wow, imagine I could own one of those business because it's a nice subscription model. You know, people do pay for it, and I pay for it every month, you know, to get, to get access to it. Because, because it's some amazing, valuable data. And I'm like thinking, how could I turn this same thing? Because if I can get information about how big the business, how many employees, I could potentially think about selling it to other businesses that might need this information.

An idea.

But yeah, gosh, that's amazing. Good idea.

Get the book. He's got like, I don't know, a hundred different strategies in here, but that's one example. To monetize, but also repurpose the content that you've created on your show.

Yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll dive in more on that strategy in a future episode because we do have Nathan Latke coming on the show soon.

Oh, nice, nice. I'm looking forward to that one.

He told us specifically he wants to be very controversial with it, so it'll be interesting.

He said, I'll only come on your show if we can, if I can be divisive and polarizing and we make it a, you know, we make it a crazy, hectic episode. And we said, okay, deal. We can, we can work with that.

Sure. Yeah. Nathan just does the talking. You guys just sit there and go, yep, pretty much.

I think that's probably what will happen.

But no, like the, the, the strategies that he talks about in his book sounds similar to, you know, the business listing type stuff that you're doing. So might be some really good takeaways that you can, you know, swipe and deploy from him.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, I'm definitely going to check it out now. Since you mentioned that. That's amazing. I did, yeah. That's just a very, very unique way to look at it. And yeah, there's lots of opportunity there because there's constantly demand for this type of stuff. Like, people pay, I think it's $500 for a property report here. And we're very, very well known websites and companies around here, but the people that spend the time getting this information, I mean, they spend a lot of time researching and so forth. But like, you know, once it, I guess gets stilled down into a specific report, that report is so leverageable that you can just charge the fee for. And people do pay, you know, hundreds and hundreds of dollars regularly to buy these reports. You know, it's a time saver. It's a time saver. Yeah. Yeah.

It sounds like that you're, you're actually leveraging your podcast and tying it back to real Estate monetarily as, as far as like finding partners for you in real estate as well, is that like a pretty big piece of the revenue that your podcast generates is actually working with, you know, guests that you find on the show on real estate deals?

Yeah, yeah, spot on. That was actually the other monetization strategy that I wanted to share with you guys and, and that idea has been working wonders because what happened was as I attract so many property investors coming onto the podcast and majority of the people, and that's pretty much the target market, are investors, people who are looking to buy property now, people to manage property and so forth. I just thought, wow, we've got a pool of people here who actually do have money. They might have equity sitting in their house, they might have cash sitting in their bank ready to invest into the next deal. And I thought, why don't we just offer to them some of the deals that we're actually currently doing in the background? Because I have lots of partners who actually do have lots of wonderful deals out there that are very, very good in return. Some of them, you know, between 10 to 20 to 30% returns. It's just a matter of finding the people out there who have the right resources to be able to match into that. And I kind of become sort of the matchmaker here of putting a deal and a money partner together and I basically just get to cut through that. But I also do get involved in ensuring that the deal goes through because the last thing I want Happen is after 12 months the deal falls through and then, you know, people lose their money because it's my reputation online. So, so I ensure that I'm very, very heavily involved in dealing. Just yesterday actually, just came back from Queensland, meeting up with my business partner up there who looks for the deals up there, and we're just nearly, very, very close to completion of the deal because I actually went and had a look at the house, look at the subdivided block of land that we actually did up there. And also the market itself is moving. So just on that deal alone, we were initially going to profit easily six figures from there, like low six figures. And now, now since the market's moved and for the same product that we're delivering, we're going to be adding an extra 100k on top of that. So, you know, that kind of deal for me is a no brainer to be doing to monetize this podcast. Not saying in a native way, you know, it's a great way because we're providing a service, not only that, we'll also bring people to make money because not only do we make money, the money partners also make a nice income as well, too, from it, because they know that their investment is getting invested rather than just sitting in the bank.

Think, yeah, oh, it's super smart. And it's kind of interesting because we've been approached by people actually, even on our podcast, who are property investors to essentially do similar types of deals. Just that's the beauty of having a podcast, though, right? Like. Like you have this platform and this influence, and you could be the connector.

Yeah.

So, I mean, you could apply that in so many different ways. People listening. Not just real estate, of course.

Yeah. I just. I feel like when it comes to podcasting, so many people look at podcasting and they see, okay, I have to record a lot of content, and then I make very, very little money off of sponsorships. And that's kind of people's perception of.

Podcasting or monetizing it.

Yeah, yeah.

What did I say?

Just podcasting. But, yeah, money with it.

Yeah, yeah. Most people just think it's like. It's like, you know, you make sponsorship money and you have to create just tons and tons of content. And I feel like, you know, our approach, all of us, all three of us, our approach is there's. There's much, much, much more to that.

Right.

Like, the. The reasons that we record the podcast isn't just to make money. It's, you know, there's the networking implications, there's the potential investment, partner implications. There's, you know, essentially free consulting. You know, we've had. We've had people on our show where we've just picked their brains on issues that we have in our own business and got them to just for free, tell us what we should do next in our business.

You know, Tyrone's kind of doing that for us right now with some.

Thank you. You know what I mean? So, like, as far as, like, the reasons why, also, we're all passionate about the topics we talk about, so it's sort of an outlet for our passions as well. But then on the monetization side, you know, it's not just sponsorships. In fact, we do get sponsorship revenue. Now, you mentioned Ahrefs. They're one of our sponsors. But, you know, for the most part, sponsorship is like the tiniest sliver of the revenue we generate off of this. You know, we figured out how to turn it into recurring revenue, just like you turn years into recurring revenue. We've, you know, we've figured out how to generate a ton of Affiliate revenue off of this. We sell, you know, the print subscription which has, you know, various upsells and various offers beyond it as well. And I think the more people that we can show that. Look, podcasting is something you should be paying attention to. I think the people that get it stand to really have some massive gains in their business. But I just think it's hard to get people to get it still.

No, I totally agree. We should just keep it between ourselves. Yeah, I was gonna say just keep it between ourselves for now. Cause, you know, otherwise we gotta.

We don't need to release this, you know.

Just kidding.

Yeah.

What was.

I think you had one other. Well, I think. I know you do, but you mentioned the Q&As that you do as part of your weekly thing, like Q and A episode. And that ties into a monetization.

Well, that was kind of the native advertising concept he was talking about, right?

Well, no, this is a slightly different. And I have to give you guys credit for this. Cause you guys are the ones ones who actually gave me this idea. So I took it one step further. So, yeah, so basically, it's affiliate marketing. You know, in a nutshell, that that's really the concept behind it. And what I've done is I've struck a few deals with a few property experts. And what I usually do is just get them to sort of tell a story, you know, answer some questions from people. We get a lot of case studies coming in and people asking about, you know, I'm in, you know, I'm 10, I'm 25 years old, and I currently have like $10,000 saved. I want to jump into property. What's the best way to go about it? That's an example of Q and A. And then you got people who are retired and got like, you know, 200 million, $200,000 in a deposit ready to buy their next properties, and, you know, got two million dollar portfolio, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, why don't we just bring these people in as experts to help answer these questions? And at the same time, they actually wanted. And they did approach me because, you know, out of blue, it's just like, hey, you know, I'd love to come back onto your podcast. Because I know when I came onto the show, I got a lot of leads coming from that way. And I said, hey, you know, why don't we try and work out a deal Every time a lead gets referred to you, I'll take a percentage cut out of that. And, you know, for whatever you guys do we'll just do it on a monthly basis, once a month, you guys hop on, answer these questions, tell stories about some of your clients, share some topical information that's on at this point in time. And you know, whatever happens, we can put a call to action with a specific code and a number and they simply just drive those leads to them and then they basically work and follow up with them. And if it's successful, then I get basically a commission out of that. It's the same concept as affiliate marketing. The only difference is that the, I guess the revenue share is percentage wise, it's smaller, but it's a greater amount because we're dealing with thousands of dollars rather than say, you know, a couple hundred dollars here and there for a course. So it's been a win win for me, for them and for me as well, because not only am I helping the listeners as well, because the listeners love to find out specifically about topical information which I wasn't able to offer in my stories because that was something that I intentionally kept away from actually answering any specific things about the market. Because with content like that, it does change very, very quickly and six months down track it won't be relevant. Whereas every single piece of story content creator is evergreen. So anyone can come back 10 years down the track and still be very much applicable. So I kind of allowed for that to happen because it was pretty much driven by listener demand because I had many people email me and say, hey, can you start, start sharing a little bit about specific details about property development. And actually that's funny because that's how I actually went to a joint venture to start another podcast on property development because people were actually demanding for more of those kind of things. And I'm actually even going to start telling my story on the property development journey just like how.

Alex Bloomberg on startup started sharing his startup journey. So I guess that's kind of spun off a few other things I'm doing as projects for next year. That's cool. Yeah.

These are so cool strategies, man. I love how, I mean, like Matt was saying earlier, it's just a lateral way of thinking is don't think so down the pipe, like what everyone thinks they should be doing, like sponsorships, but just like that, just create the story based around like a service that you could be an affiliate of, but in a way you can arrange your own deal with them, their deal structure and that could be super profitable. And the idea is like you really just have to do maybe a handful of these things, not even, maybe just one Maybe you just want to pay for your production costs and all that stuff. A lot of folks, that's a great way to start is just pick one, do it really well and extend from there and just kind of like flow with whatever your audience wants next.

Yep, totally. And I think the really great thing about something like this, it's a lot more leverageable than actually just trying to get sponsorships in. Because when I thought about it further with sponsorships, like say, for example, if a bank approached me and said, look, I want to actually get a 30 second AD, most of the time they actually want to buy all ad spots inside the podcast. So that means that I booked out a whole month just for that bank and therefore I can't actually earn more revenue. They pay a substantial amount, which is fantastic, but then you're limited on how much they pay. And the only way to scale that up is to either have more podcasts, which I'm planning to do, or, you know, really to just add more sponsorships to that ad spot. And like, when you have too many, then it sounds like as though you're just promoting, you know, sponsors. And that's not where I intentionally headed. So I had to think of other ways. And this has been phenomenal ways to be able to do it. It's a lot more leverageable. You know, leads can constantly be coming in and plus, you know, take your action off the pie because you know someone's going to be making money anyway, you may as well try and help them and take a piece of the action as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's kind of a fine line we all have to toe between being too overly promotional and, you know, still providing good content so that people want to come back. You know, we want, we want good user experience, listener experience, but we also, you know, we're all in this because we need to make a living as well. You know, that's, we are passionate about it, but we need all, we all need to generate an income.

Absolutely. You know, that's how we create these amazing podcasts. Without that, we can't, you know, deliver the best quality that we can. So. I totally agree. That's the thing. I think people just probably would like to know, okay, what is actually like, if you're transparent about what you do and how your business operates, people really genuinely understand because you're delivering great value, you're helping them on a really, really great way, but also at the same time, everyone is actually getting paid for what they're best at doing.

Absolutely.

And you Just make it a win win, make it good value all the way through.

No one should care.

Everyone's winning in that.

I think we're. This is another. This is a great show. I mean, this is like one of those episodes where we don't want to cut you off, but we're just like, we're getting a little long now and I think you're running out of time on your end too.

Wanted to ask you a question to share a little bit more.

Oh, well, is there one? I don't want to cut you off. You have another good strategy that you want to share. Is there anything else before we kind of wrap things up?

I guess the only thing that I probably would say in terms of where I've been in this business at this point in time is building those relationships is so important, as you've all said, because the networking aspect is something that's not measurable directly. It's not something that is tangible and say, this person brought in X amount of dollars and so forth. So those relationships that you build can come back in multitude of magnitude in the future. And that's what I've noticed. I've had number of podcast guests said to me, hey, would you like to share and interview this guy for xyz? And I would never have ever connected with those people before because if it wasn't for these connections I built, they wouldn't have referred to me. And some of those people that have come onto the podcast and shared their stories have been phenomenal. I think that's a key component for just thinking outside the square. Not necessarily thinking, okay, okay. Podcasting is just only to make money through sponsorship, but you can also build some amazing quality relationships. And not only that, you learn from all these wonderful, great people because for someone who's owning like I know, like people only $100 million property development deals and, you know, have millions and millions of dollars of property for them to spend an hour to share their life and to share their story with me. You know, I'm so grateful for that because at the same time it's their hour that they could be investing to make more money, you know, whatever it is, or spending with their time. So to actually have that opportunity to be able to do that, I'm just very, very grateful to see that happen in my life. But not only that, for listeners to also enjoy that as well too. So I think that's how I've been able to be very, very happy to give back to society because I've just been so grateful that these People have spent their quality time with me to share their knowledge. In return, I want to do exactly the same thing for my listeners as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Actually, what you just said actually made me think of another question I want to ask you real quick. Quick, when you do have guests on your show, what do you do to stay connected with them? Because that's something. I feel like we're pretty good at it. But there are definitely some guests that slip through the cracks where we just kind of lose communication after they've been on the show. So I'm curious if you have any sort of process that you use or any sort of tools or anything that you do to make sure that anybody that you connect with on the show, you keep that connection.

Yeah, it's a really good point. And I have to admit, I'm not the best at following up. That's why I rely very heavily on systems, because without systems, I just can't function. There's so much to do. That's the thing. I can jump from this and that. But I think the biggest thing that's helped with me is just sending them a letter, because that's what I've been doing. My clients is that I've been sending them a monthly newsletter. And they're the contacts and the guests that I've had on the show in the past, because they've been the ones who have actually been able to. To get business listings with me and stuff. And through that means, because I communicate with a marketing newsletter, it keeps them in contact and then they reach out to me. Like as soon as they receive my newsletter, next minute I get a call from them, they go, hey, Ty, what's happening? X, Y and Z. So I think that's been my way of following up because if I had to actually pick up the phone and regularly call them, I think I'd struggle with that, to be honest. I don't really have a specific way that I do it, but in many ways I think the newsletters I send by post, which I send out quite a number of them on a monthly basis, helps me keep in contact in front of mind so that they end up calling me instead.

Gotcha. So do you actually hand write letters to them or are you sending them the newsletter that you're sending everybody who's on the newsletter?

Yeah, it's the newsletter. And then from time to time, because I've got them in my system, I ask them for their birthday, all that kind of stuff. I do send out handwritten notes like thank you cards or birthday cards. Or just something nice just to keep in contact with. So at least on a minimum, once a year, I do send out something to celebrate their birthday.

That's smart.

Yeah, we should start collecting birthdays.

I'm sure you've noticed. We.

I thought you guys. I thought you guys do already.

No, we don't. For the birthdays.

No, we ask your address and we ask your shirt size.

Ah, yes, that's right. Because, yeah, I do remember filling those in. But no, I intentionally started asking for birthdays because. Because I knew that one way or another, I can know about their anniversary, find out a little bit more about them in that sense, and then just send out something nice. The first thing I do, and this is probably a lot of people get surprised when they receive this because as soon as they sign up to be a customer and go on a business listing or sponsorship package, the first thing I do in my system is I send out a hamper to them, a full hamper that has amazing food in it. And as soon as they receive that, the next day or on that same day when they receive it, they usually call me or text me, me and say, this is a surprise. I've never, ever received this from somewhere like, you know, doing this. So that kind of gives them a wow already. And then through that, I try, you know, adding little things sprinkling throughout. So there'll be a Christmas kind of card that goes out during Christmas, Easter time. Whenever I can find a festivity time of the year, I'll send something out to them. That's really how I keep in contact with them in a systemized way.

I like that a lot.

I think Joe and I should make some, like, cheesy Christmas cards with both of us wearing, like, Christmas sweaters and, like, you know, make it look like a family photo, but it's a picture of me and Joe and just send them everybody.

I wouldn't put it past us.

That's something we should. Yeah, no, we really should. I just love the cyclical promotions that you're engineering. Essentially, is, like, it's holidays, it's birthdays, it's any other big event maybe, that you see them on social media. Like, we had Steve Sims on our podcast, and he's like, the master at this.

Yeah, you're doing this. We actually asked the same question because, Matt, the question you asked Tyrone just now is exactly what was in my head too. Like, how the hell do you stay in contact? And we asked Jordan Harpinger. He was on the show recently. It's not released yet. How he stays in contact or how he keeps track of everyone. And I think he said he used this contactually as a CRM or whatever management system online. So maybe look into that if you want to organize people that way. I think that's how we're probably going to do that. But then also swipe what you just gave us here.

Yeah, yeah. I do want to mention though, I mean this comes naturally to me when setting up these things because I'm strong in systems and processes and workflows and those kind of things. And that's I guess what I've always done when I've been at my jobs and so forth. But the other thing, because I used to be a real estate agent as well, that also was a skill that I picked up because when I was managing so many clients with real estate, after as soon as we sold their property we'd send them the hamper. But also too on the list, minimum twice a year we'd make sure we make a call just to see how their new house is and so forth. Because what happens is that that continuous contact over the seven years they keep at the front of mind thinking, okay, I bought from this guy, I'll come back to him in a few years time to sell with him if I am looking to sell. And that's kind of the methodology or the philosophy that I've picked up from real estate in the past. And I just thought, why not just apply? Because I already know how to do it. It's not hard, it just got to systemize it because once you're sending out to hundreds of people, you obviously can't do that all yourself. So yeah, that's why I've got checklists in place and I've got automations already in place to follow these things through. And that's what triggers me with my say, for example, my lead follow up system. I've got triggers to make sure I just send a text message to this person who hasn't replied back after two or three days. I just copy and paste it from my email and then text it out to them. Things like that. Those are little secrets I should be revealing on this podcast. But yeah, things like that make it easy for me because otherwise you're not forgetting these things.

That's awesome. I know you're a systems guy. The first time you and I chatted, actually when you joined, I remember you were like, you basically said that, that and now I can see why and like how effective you are because they're doing a lot.

Yeah.

And yeah. And I don't think you even have a big team. Right. Gets very tiny slash you.

Yeah, it's going to be a good thing and also a bad thing as well because you end up just getting into the systems and you just end up not doing enough marketing, which is what I'm trying to balance the two at the moment.

So where can, you know, we're wrapping up here? Where can folks go listen to your podcast, check out what you have online and everything we've been talking about here.

Awesome. So you guys can go and visit to propertyinvestory.com and over there you guys can get a free report if you're interested in finding out a little bit more about how to actually generate an extra 15% year on year return from property. Simply just property investor is the word property investor with a y.com at the end. And yeah, feel free to just download stuff there. You can also reach out to me on there as well too. And once you subscribe, you can also just send me an email. And if you feel like you want to ask more questions, feel free to do so as well. So happy to share more tips and strategies. And yeah, I definitely recommend if anyone wants to find out more about the Pod Hack masterclass, Pod Hacker Masterclass, definitely check it out because I definitely can recommend it highly because I benefit so much from it and I'm in there as well to share information. So thank you so much guys.

Yeah, no, thank you very much, Tyrone. You laid out like a whole masterclass here, so we'll let you go. I know you gotta get going, so we'll touch base soon, man. Appreciate your time.

Time. You're welcome. Thanks so much, Matt. Thanks, Joe. Thank you, man.

Bye bye.

Hey, thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you loved it as much as we loved recording it. Now before we wrap this up completely, I want to give a quick shout out to our our supporters of the show. These are some companies that have really helped us and have supported the show and we just like to give a big thank you to them and they also are offering some cool free gifts for you as the listeners. So number one supporter, Podcast Magazine, Podcast Magazine, the preeminent publication covering podcasts, podcast culture and the podcasts that fans love. It's launching in January of 2020. Prior to launch, you could grab a free lifetime subscription over@podcast magazine.com that is a free subscription. A free lifetime subscription to Podcast Magazine where they are talking about everything. Podcasting Podcast culture, culture. The podcasters you love behind the scenes of podcasts. They're ranking and reviewing podcasts. And guess what? Joe and I are actually going to be regular contributors to Podcast Magazine. So if you want to hear more of our insights around podcasting and the shows that we're listening to and some insider tips about what's going on behind the scenes of our show, we're actually going to be one of the featured experts inside Podcast magazine. So if you love podcasts, you, if you're a podcaster, or if you just want to stay on top of what's going on in the growing medium, subscribe now because you can get a free lifetime subscription until it launches. So make sure you do this early. So once again, go to Podcast magazine.

Com.

Free subscription to this magazine. Go do it. Get on that now. Another supporter that we really, really want to thank is Easy Webinar. Now this is the webinar platform that we tend to use when we run webinars. If you go to easywebinar.com hustle, you can actually try Easy Webinar for free right now. And what I love about Easy Webinar personally is that it's got both the live options. So you can just go live with a webinar like you would normally. But it's also got automated webinars where you can make a webinar feel like it's live but it's happening on a recurring basis. Then they have what's called, you know, hybrid webinars where portions of it are live but then it goes to a pre recorded and they do encore webinars. I mean, they've got pretty much every feature you can ever want from a webinar. Now you probably know that webinars convert better than any other marketing tool. But if you thought, you know, webinars, easy webinar is going to surprise you. So with live automated, all these different functions of webinars, you're going to be using the best onboarding customer platform. You're going to be able to create automated courses. You're going to run automated sales funnels. So much cool stuff, stuff that you can do with Easy Webinar. It is our preferred choice of platform for webinars. So make sure you check out Easy Webinar. You can get it for free right now. Get a trial of it over@easywebinar.com hustle and check out our episode with Casey Zieman, the founder of Easy Webinar, where we dive into a lot more cool stuff that you can do with webinars. So check it out again. Easywebinar.com hustle to get a free trial, go to podcast magazine.com to get a free lifetime subscription. Both amazing products, both products that we use, we're subscribed to and we support and can't thank them enough for also supporting our show. So go check those out. We appreciate you and thanks for tuning in to Hustle and Flowchart.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to too, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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