Unleashing Untapped Potential: From Corporate Lawyer to Holistic Business Coach with Briony McKenzie

Most people who are entrepreneurs or creators, like, that's what they want to do. They want to create change or solve problems. And so when you look at the world, like, if you asked, what would be absurd in 10 years time? So, okay, it's 10 years time, we wake up and what do you want it to be? Just like, man, it was absurd that we used to do that. So something I say is, like, for me, I want it to be absurd. I want my grandkids to be like, you did what? Like, yeah, so we, we used to work in these little cubicles where we hated it and we sold all our time, our most precious resource for a paycheck. Like, I want the algorithm kids to be like, that's so weird because, yeah, like we've. And, and, and of course, then, okay, then what is the change you want to see? Well, I want to see human beings, like, using their gifts to create an impact in the world and create income from that. Like, we, we all get these incredible gifts. We should be able to use them, monetize them, grow them, give them back to the world, than sit in a cubicle, like, hating our lives.

Hey, I'm Joe Fear, and welcome to the Hustle and Flow Chart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hustle mode kind of guy, and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger, so that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy.

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Yeah, me too. It's great to be connected. And it's such an important conversation to really think about how do we become the person that we need to become in order to have the business and the life that we really want. So thank you for having me here.

Yeah, of course. And yeah. Cause it's like the evolution of this show has kind of been as a response and feedback from listeners and I would say coaches, experts, people who are putting their expression out into the world, thought leaders and a lot of people listening. And also just in this space, obviously you're starting with your own ideas. Right? Like you're kind of all doing it yourself. You're a solopreneur, you're doing everything yourself. Your to do list is forever, it seems like. Feels like. And it's like, ah, how do I get out of this place? You know, I feel like those are your people too, right?

Like.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I personally went through that in my own journey of building untapped, was being on my own, feeling burnt out, feeling exhausted, like knowing that that mission so there on your heart, but also kind of not being able to see the real clarity of how. How does this thing. How do you actually grow this? And particularly if it's not something you've ever done and it's never been modeled or people aren't around, you aren't actually at that size and scale, then it's Hard to actually know what's behind it. You know, Instagram's one thing. You know, a podcast is one thing, but what really goes into the back end of helping people become and grow into those businesses.

Yeah, and that's where I want to. Because I think what you guys, you call it a constant creator and a visionary leader. I see this come up often when I was doing my research and I was like, I like it, it lands, it lands with me in some ways, not in all ways, but I'm like, I've seen where I was completely the constant creator and it's just like getting stuck in a lot of the actions that, like I said, the to do list forever. Everything lands on me. And it's not really an expansive feeling like you might be aware of some of the, you know, like, yeah, I should have a team, I should have systems. I want to grow and go somewhere with what I'm doing, but I'm not quite sure. So I feel like that's where we're untapped and everything you've grown, which I want to dive into. What brought you to untapped and you and your partner both doing that together and kind of this cool life it sounds like you've been living through, finding clarity and becoming more visionaries. Right. In leadership rather than the doing of everything.

Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. When I, So I used to be my, my path was like, I used to be a corporate lawyer, so I already had a relatively systematic kind of process orientated brain. And then I found that calling of something I really wanted to give to the world. And so started running workshops and programs and things. And I very quickly saw like roadblocks and limitations in scalability.

And if I wanted to be doing something so intimate that had such an impact, there was only one of me. And it was. So I started to already very quickly feel the limitation of, okay, well, if I'm really being with my students and my clients and customers, then I can't do the marketing and I can't do the invoicing and I can't, I can't do this. And so I quickly saw the gaps in the industry, in the model, and at the same time I was like, well, there must be a way. There must be people figuring this out. And so I started looking for examples of people that had done that. And really it was, for me, it was an invitation to let go of all the indemptible get into them. But all the internal operating systems, limiting beliefs and mindsets that had held me back and were going to hold me back. But it was really helpful to start to have people further along that I could actually model and learn from as well. And that led to eventually getting out of so much of the doing and putting in a really incredible delivery team. So really started to train, you know, train the trainer and train coaches and to support our students because there's only one of you.

And they deserve to get the impact of the program and the intimacy. And so that's where that really began. And then bit by bit it was like, you know, admin marketing and really taking the same lessons from that across all areas of the business.

Couple questions. So you came from law and that's obviously a leap to coaching, which it sounds like that's, you know. So I'm curious about like what was the bridge there? Like what took you to this space of what you're doing now? I guess a follow up question and I don't know, maybe you could tag team these together is like what was the breaking point of like realizing all these things that you were doing and the things that you wanted to do. And like you said, you have clients and all this that you want to deliver and give great results and you want to have them obviously succeed but there's all this other stuff you're doing too. So I guess. Walk me through what that looked like.

Yeah. When I was in corporate, I, as a corporate lawyer, I knew like basically the whole time I was there. I was there for almost three and a half years and I knew the whole time it wasn't like my destiny and my calling. And I think everyone probably knows that feeling at some point in their life. And I remember I would work around the clock. I worked at a big firm and we worked really long hours and I thought about a lot, but it was actually a few moments. Like one junior one day we were standing at the printer printing documents or whatever and she said to me, so why did you choose to do corporate lawyer? And I was like, huh, that's super interesting. I don't really remember ever actually choosing this path. And I think we know those feelings when life has happened by default. So you follow what's expected of you. You know, maybe you're a high performer, you just achieve, achieve, achieve. And then you turn around and go, what have I even built? What have I even created? And that was a big moment for me to really think. Like I remember studying, choosing to study law and I remember why I did it. And my mum and I worked in Cambodia in a community when I was 15 and at that point the Biggest impact I decided I could make would be do law and politics. And yet here I was thinking I would end up in the UN or something like this. And now I'm sitting in a corporate law firm pushing documents. And it was that moment of like, wow, I don't know that I really chose this. And that led me to a lot of my own inner work. So that was like three years of just going to seminars, going to trainings, just really deconstructing this version of me that I'd created to figure out my. At my authentic core. Like, what did I want to build, what did I want to create? And that was a unique combination of the love for people and contribution and systems and processes. And it was like, oh, like the industry of transformation. And that's our industry, right? That's coaching. That's thought leadership. That's like being able to support people with whatever they're trying to achieve but actually adding processes to it. So the design of, like, programs and workshops and things came really naturally. I just started doing these little cafe workshops and things like this, and I did a whole bunch of certifications and. But I was just experimenting. And so that was really. That's what led to that change. And it was a very daunting. Like, that time in my life was terrifying. You know, it was. Everyone thought I was just like. They were like, what are you doing? And coaching industry in New Zealand seven years ago, like, and that was even earlier that I got into it. But seven years ago, when I decided to resign from law, it was like, that wasn't a thing. There wasn't that many coaches, and particularly in New Zealand. So at that moment, people were just like, what? And I felt like I was just walking across, like, to the edge of it. Just like the abyss. Like, I was like, I don't know, but it was very intuitive. It was just like leading me every day to just keep following that. So, yeah, that was intuitive.

Like you, you. You tapped into something in you. Obviously you. You realized, oh, this thing chose me, this corporate life and. Cause I had a very similar feeling. I was in doing corporate stuff too. And there was like this moment. It was like a light bulb went off and like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm going to be a zombie by the end. If I stick here another 30 years or whatever, I'm going to be like, not loving life or anyone else around me. So it's like, can't do this anymore. Got to pull the plug.

Exactly. Yeah. And it's so. Brad, so brave. Like Acknowledging everyone, you know who does do that, and at that moment, you know, stepping into entrepreneurship that way feels, you know, pretty daunting. So it's brave.

Yeah. Yeah. So this is interesting. So New Zealand, different market than here in the US I'm in San Diego, so there was, like, an abundant. Of abundant amount of coaches. Like, I literally. It was easy for me to jump in. I'm like, these are my people. And so how did you find your people? You brought people together, it sounds like. So you were almost like the initiative, the person that. The spark of that out there. Walk me through that.

It was pretty rare, pretty scarce. There was a few. Like, there was a few things happening. Like, if I went on the Internet and searched things, I would find a few people. But there was someone I ended up hiring as a business coach. I went to. I saw, like, an event she was running, and it was just a panel. And at that time, Alexi Panos and Preston Smiles, who are thought leaders, and they were based in la, Austin. They had come to New Zealand to run an event, and they were all doing this panel. And I walked in, and it was like, for that first moment, I saw someone younger and someone more relatable doing, like, elements of what I felt the desire to do. And it was just like, wow, okay, that's possible. So there were little ripples happening. But in terms of the actual culture scape in New Zealand, very, very New Zealand experiences a thing called tall poppy syndrome, which you've probably heard of, but it's basically like, you don't want to be too successful, and you don't want to stand out. And that's why I love hanging out with Americans. Like, even Lisa was like, get that Forbes article on your website. Like, get it on your email. And it's like, I was like, oh. Cause it's just not what Kiwis are like. New Zealanders are, like, very. Just. You don't play anything up too much. So at the time, having a coach and doing personal growth was not cool, and it wasn't something you would be proud of. Like, if you did it, you did it in private. And when I did market research, people were like, I don't think I need a coach. And if I did, maybe I'd pay them $40. And also, I don't want anyone to know. Like, I would never be doing that group stuff you're talking about. So at that moment, I realized, not only do I need to expand my identity, but I'm about to go up against a culture, like, a whole cultural change. Now New Zealand's small. We're 5 million people. So you can make a wave pretty quickly, which was really fun. Right. We ran trainings all across New Zealand, and it got to the point there was, like, over 500 women went through one of our particular programs. So 500 people in a population of 5 million starts to ripple. And it was a moment, I think two people were at a dinner table and they mentioned the program, and then someone else went for a job interview, and the guy interviewing her, his wife had done the program. And it was such a cool moment to be like. That was what I really set out more to do because I'd been traveling to America and Australia and meeting all of you beautiful people over there who were, like, on this buzz and this vibe. And so my commitment is really to take some of that home, which was pretty cool.

Oh, you did? Yeah. And you spread it, and it's like. It's weird. In my mind, I feel like, man, that sounds so tough to do. But you had this spark in you, and you saw what's possible in America and beyond. And it's almost like, it's awesome to be that spark, you know, the one that is really letting that ripple out there, because that's what fires me up. It's like, how do you express your true thing and then help others find that and then do that for themselves? And that's exactly what you did out there and.

Yeah, exactly. It was super, super cool.

Yeah. So, I mean, now I know you guys have traveled the world and, like, you've taken the show on the road. It sounds like.

What? Let's see. Because, Yeah, I guess. Talk about scaling that. Because that's. It's tough. I mean, you. You obviously did the groundwork and.

Yeah, I mean, like, it's. It's. So walk me through how you scaled untapped and. And how. Because I want to relate this back to people who are obviously going through something similar themselves, and I want them to kind of picture themselves in your shoes in a way.

I specifically remember the moment of I can't go on this way. And I was like, at my co. Working space, I went into this. It was almost like a cupboard, like a janitor cupboard vibe. It was just with little head computer servers and stuff in there. And I turned off the lights and I just sat there and I was just crying, and I was just like, I'm so overwhelmed. And at that point, I was such an overachiever. I wouldn't even resonate with the word burnout. I was like, I'm not burnt out. But also, maybe I am burnt out, but I was like, no, I'm not. I'm just diet. But I remember that moment just being like, I've got to learn another way because it's amazing what I've created this way and on my own and really, really being able to market and learn these skills, like these fundamental skills. But I knew that something would have to change as well. So. So there was that point and there was another point later. There was almost like two different moments. And at that point I didn't have anyone. So at that point I think I had admin support, which was great. And I do believe that's one of the earlier hires that you should hire for sure. And that was awesome. And that was me realizing like, okay, what does it look like to actually grow this is this scalable and how can I build something that more aligns for me and is going to. And that was really connecting to the vision, the customer, like really dialing into who exactly you want to help and how you want to help them. So at that point, that became the moment I was like, okay, it is really working specifically with these high performing, ambitious women, helping them transition out of their careers and into something they really love, whether that's entrepreneurship often ended up being. And so then I built multiple programs and I really built up that value ladder. And I think that was the first time I really started to think about my business model. Not just per hour, not just like, you know, on that total hamster wheel, but really think about the longevity of the business and dialing into exactly who it was. Because at that point I was also helping a lot of people in a lot of ways. It was just kind of like everywhere, anything, speaking at events, coaching these people. These people. And so it was really taking a moment to go. You don't have to be all things to everyone. And actually simplification now matters. And that was dialing into that one person that I really wanted to support. Deeply committing to that, and then building a full customer journey and an incredible product suite and community for that one person that made a profound. That simplified everything I was doing. Yeah, that was like one point. And I think simplification can be challenging for constant creators. You know, you mentioned that earlier.

Very challenging.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're creative, right? And you'll know this in your journey. It's like we just love building and creating things and it's awesome and it's fun and then it's not. And you're like, wow, I've built a Lot of stuff. And so I think simplification is a skill and a mindset and something that you learn over time is that simple is better and that even looking really deeply and going, maybe some of that was rooted in skills, scarcity maybe. I thought If I had 25 offers, you know, which is, well, often constant creators come to us with a PDF of like, you know, 25 offers.

Here's my resume of things that I can offer you. And yeah, it's like grasping at straws all over because I think it is a scarcity rooted thing and I think it's one of the toughest things to do is to, is to really refine where to focus and trust yourself, trust everything, you know, the what you put out into the world. Because I feel like if you put it out there and can clarify what it is you do, who you serve the specific things to. Yeah, to solve and let people in, that's a ripple in itself. And then that can create obviously inbound, if you're connecting with the right people, ads. I mean it helps with all sorts of different ways to expand your message, you know, and that's, that's exactly what I always start with. My training is like who's in the terms of podcasting. It's who's your target listener, avatar and really refining who it is. Demographics, psychographics, all that like picture them. It's like the boring work.

I remember doing lots of business trainings and that was always in it and I was always like, ah, like kind of ignoring it. And I think that's quite common in the beginning because I think you, yeah, I think we talked about scarcity. You maybe want to serve everyone. And one of the greatest mantras I had is just like one purpose but many missions. So for example, untapped my expression in the world, how I coach what we've run, it's iterated so many times, but the one purpose stays the same. It's like accessing, helping people access their truth, their potential. And then the missions of how it's done. Well, that's been through so many iterations. That's like the woman transitioning from corporate, now supporting creators to really build out their business and scale. We had a social enterprise that was supporting, you know, Rangatahi, our youth with social, social development projects. So if you are like clinging to the thing, like I need lots, it's also going okay, but maybe in different timelines and different expressions and giving this one thing the real time it deserves and then maybe in six months or a year or three years, you can do the next thing because it is, it's that fear and scarcity again of like, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to do it all.

I like that. It's, it's like seasons of our lives, we, we change as people. The older we get. There's different priorities and, and things that light us up and then we learn more if we're receptive to that feedback and asking for it. And yeah, I, I like that. It's like, that's really what defines the vision and mission, I guess separately, because some people muddy those waters. And maybe we could talk about this because I know a big thing you guys talk about is clarifying all of this because it opens up so many doors, but it's like your vision can kind of be the same, but your mission can change or at least like shift a little bit depending on maybe the seasons you're going through.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And when you do that, like, be willing to just let things go and focus because I think, I think we naturally hoard. We're loss averse, animal. We don't like losing things naturally, human beings. So we just collect all these domains, all these versions. Oh, don't worry, I've got a workshop on that. And it dilutes the potency for your community. It's like the number one line we say is like, if you lose, if you confuse the customer, you lose the customer. Right. You get these people coming in their world. The moment they can't tell what you are, they're just like, I don't know, like, my partner and I were walking up the road the other day and this new coffee shop came in and you could just see it was like a specialty coffee store. You know, it was like, oh, that's nice. Yeah. And the guy, the guy's like, from New York. And we were like, oh. And we don't see that a lot here, like in Portland, Portugal and Lisbon. And we were like, nice. And then like three doors down, this one open that is like, we don't know what's happening there. There's like some coffee happening, there's people drinking, they're selling clothes. Like, there's a lot happening in the store. And Dee was like, see, they thought, oh, we'll be everything. That's such a good idea. And then like, you naturally detract all of these possible customers simply by confusing them. And it just. Yeah, and it's just, it's really out in the stuff that gets in the way, I think.

Yeah. If you're everything, you're Kind of nothing because you get lost in the meat in the weeds there. Big announcement here. The Hustle and Flowchart podcast is now the newest podcast on the HubSpot Podcast Network. They're the audio destination for business professionals. It's exactly why I joined the network, to expand what we've been doing here. Making business the fuel for your life, not the stressor or the burnout. We want to build fun and make business a big part of part of who we are and our expression out to others. So you're going to expect a lot more more curated guests and that sync up with this mission. Also more topics and episodes from me. And I want you to keep listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Go check out other shows on the HubSpot podcast network at HubSpot.com podcastnetwork Are you tired of the hassle of building online sales funnels? You know, I get it. And you started your business for freedom and not to be chained to your laptop all day long. And thankfully there is an all in one platform that makes this process super easy so you can start attracting customers online. It's a tool called Kartra and it has every tool you need to grow. So every Kartra account comes stocked with a bunch of done for you campaigns that are designed, connected and written for you. All you gotta do is customize them to your liking and you can launch a fully built Salesforce funnel in minutes. So make marketing easy on yourself. Visit www.hustleandflowchart.com Kartra and snag a free 30 day trial of Kartra. And again, that's hustleandflowchart.com K-R T R A what are some ways. And I know you have a whole exercise and maybe and feel free to shout it out. I think it's like a free freebie that people can jump into where it can help clarify your vision and mission and basically everything in between. But walk me through some of the principles that you guys start people through because I feel like it's perfect timing right now.

So with the vision, what we tend to say is like there's something on your heart you want to share. There's some difference you want to make to the world. Most people who are entrepreneurs or creators, like that's what they want to do. They want to create change or solve problems. And so when you look at the world like if you asked, what would be absurd in 10 years time? So okay, it's 10 years time, we wake up and what do you want it to be just like, man, it was absurd that we used to do that. So something I say is like for me, I want it to be absurd. I want my grandkids to be like, you did what? Like, yeah, so we, we used to work in these little cubicles where we hated it and we sold all our time, our most precious resource for a paycheck. Like I want our grandkids to be like, that's so, so weird because yeah, like we and, and, and of course, then. Okay, then what is the change you want to see? Well, I want to see human beings like using their gifts to create an impact in the world and create income from that. Like we, we all get these incredible gifts. We should be able to use them, monetize them, grow them, give them back to the world, than sit in a cubicle like hating our life. So I love that question. Cause I think it activates like something different than being the number one place for this or whatever it is. You know, we see lots of that and that's great too, but, but actually at that core for you to really anchor into the change you want to see first as the founder and the creator and then the next piece that will give you some kind of vision and shift for the world. And if you're leading a team, they are going to be way more inspired by a vision than a task.

That's something that if you don't have yet and you start leading a team and hiring, you'll quickly wonder why people leave, why people don't do their jobs properly. Because they're not inspired, they're not moved by something. Right. So when you're thinking about shifting out of that, just task orientated day to day and into that visionary leader is really taking the time and space to ask yourself those questions, to get connected to that and then to be willing to share it with the world. And that's. And you know, and constantly be sharing it with your team. And this was a big lesson for me because my partner would often mirror this to me. He'd be like, hey Bry, you know the vision. But I'll be honest, like this last two meetings, it hasn't really. You haven't shared like you're not sharing what's, it's so natural for you. But the team don't know that unless you say. And it was a big edge for me. Like, okay, gotta say it again, gotta say it again.

Yeah, because you know it. And so I think that's a really fun question. And on the mission, then that mission becomes really that how, like, who is it and what is the change you want to help them see? And my favorite question is, how will you actually know when you're successful at that? Right. Like.

Like a clear, defined mile marker.

Yeah. What is the result of someone coming into your world and experiencing this transformation or this process that you take them through or whatever? What are they? How does their life transform after that? How does. How does their business look different? What are the characters, the traits, the skill skills, the outcomes that they would have achieved in that time? And really getting clear on that, because that starts to be. That starts to go into like your offer design and, you know, how you communicate what you do to people. Your vision's great to enroll a team and get that emotional buy in, but the mission is critical for just clarity of like, it's this person. We do this and this is the outcome.

Yeah, it's greatly important. So a couple things. Shout out the free. I don't know if you have a quick URL or if we could just. Yeah, shout that out because I think that's super valuable right now.

Yeah. So the. We have a business reflection workbook and it's really great. There's a couple. There's quite a few amazing questions in there that will activate some different things. So for example, if you're really sitting there going, okay, I've been around for, you know, I've had a couple years or whatever and I've been doing this and now I'm really trying to figure that out. There's questions like, what is the best money you've ever earned? What is the dollars that you're like, man, that felt good getting that. Because that is an indicator of the types of things. What's the most challenging client? And I mean challenging as in you don't want another one of them that you've ever had that you're like, no, just an absolute no. Because that's gonna highlight the values and the personality traits and the things that you don't want to attract. And really it's got these amazing questions to help access clarity in a different way. If you're sick of the like, who is your ideal client? Kind of like, who is your avatar? Which is also very important. We have that in our programs as well. But if you just want to start activating some stuff and getting some insights, the business reflection is really perfect for just. It's got a lot of amazing prompts. I think it's like 30 different types of questions that will just really give you some solid insights of. Ah, okay.

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I go through some other training like I'm doing to Jordan Peterson. Self reflection, whole mass. It's insane. Like, it's like writing a novel. It's like worth every $30 it's cost or something. It's ridiculous. But to your point back to like working through prompts, I think it's like the most helpful thing that it's been for me to uncover like whatever stuckness I had mentally and whatever parts of life, that one obviously goes very deep. But for, for what you're talking about here, it, it can. Prompts like that, I think are so valuable if you focus in on them and really, truly understand where this can open things up in your life. That they were like blind spots.

Absolutely. Yeah. You. And we often when we do trainings and stuff with it, we put some music on and it's like, to activate that subconscious, like, and that's one of the greatest philosophies. I love coaching as an industry and mentorship. I think it's fantastic because we're all in the jar and we can't see the label on the jar. And it puts you around other people and it elevates your identity. And at the same time, one of the greatest skills as an entrepreneur or a creator or anyone trying to build something is the access to your own intuition and your own awareness. And you only build that through practice asking yourself these questions and then going, wow, that's an interesting thought. You know those, I don't know if you've ever done one of those blueprint exercises. They're like quick fire. It's like, business is what, marketing is what. And your immediate responses are fascinating because that's everything in your subconscious that you think about. Marketing, sales, you know, and really you have to find those for yourself early because they are the exact things that will hold back on that next evolution.

Yeah. And you're right. It's the quick fire answers where. And that's where journaling or doing these prompts, it's great to try to drop any editing while you're going through it because you want to get those quick answers out the subconscious out in front of you where you're aware and you're like, holy shit, I've been sabotaging myself for years or whatever. And it's like, how about we change that? And I have the choice to do that now that I see what I'm thinking, let's not do that anymore. Or maybe, hey, that's pretty good. All right, let's do more of it, you know? Okay. You gotta shout out the URL or like how people can jump in.

Of course. Yeah. So we've got www untapped.nz is our website and the first thing it says get started and the business reflections right there. So it's the first thing on the website. You'll be able to see it as soon as you pop your email in straight to your inbox. And there's a little video training that goes with it as well. So definitely go grab it. It's like it's just. Yeah. And give yourself 20 minutes, please. Put some music on, set the vibe and within that time like you will get such an access for clarity of like what you want to be creating, what you want to focus in on. Yeah. With those amazing prompts right up.

Yeah, I have. Yeah. I'm like, you got to get this out. It's too good not to and yeah, of course. So I guess a couple other things that come to mind is so there's leadership. I feel like there's like your self leadership. Getting clarity sounds like everything is kind of working backwards. Like all things. It's like know where you're headed and then kind of give yourself these milestones or kilometer stones, whatever you want to call it, ways to get there. But it's like that's for yourself. And you mentioned leadership. That's a big piece and it's not just task oriented or you're going to just be like turning people over all the time. I guess the point here is you're going to need help. You're likely going to need help with people systems. That's part of people as well. And money comes up in this whole conversation and getting out of the whatever money mindset that you had before. So yeah, I guess some blockages I'm curious of like what comes up, what have you seen in terms of all of that stuff to try to hit some of these initial goals.

Yeah, I think so. Having worked, you know, we've worked with thousands of different creators and coaches through that like transition and that journey. I think when, when you're on your own there's, you have so much control. So one of the first things people fear. Well, there's a couple of common fears, but one is losing control and basically like, okay, so I'm going to outsource and what if this person says something that I don't want them to say or they do something or that, you know, it's not what I want. And on that the main thing to remember is like you're not, you're not Just like, okay, you do everything. It's. You can still put in what we call feedback loops and quality control. Right. So sign off the social media or sign off things until you start to build trust with that team member. And really then looking at also there's a little bit of ego there sometimes when people are like, oh, no one's going to do it quite like me.

There's a lot of that. What are you talking about?

Right. Yeah. And it's like, I think that special pedal syndrome, or whatever we call it, it's like special snowflake. That's it. It's just getting really honest. Like there's people that are going to do things a lot better than you, actually. And my journey with hiring delivery team, which delivery was something I love, I did make one mistake. I outsourced an area I probably loved the most early, and I built an incredible. About 12 coaches, an incredible delivery team, and we got absolutely phenomenal results. So I don't regret it. But interestingly, it did push me back into an area of the company in marketing, which wasn't necessarily my strength. And so for me, that was a lesson and is something I would say to people. Early is instead of just listening to someone say, you should hire this person or this person, take a moment, do what we would call an energy audit, which you're probably familiar with, but track what you do for a week, five days, and really look at what are the tasks I'm doing every day and give them a category. And it's just simply Zone of genius is the things I love I lose track of time doing. I just could feel flow and go for ages. Zone of excellence is like, you're good at it, you're really, really good at it, but also it kind of, after a while, drains you. Zone of competence is like, you can do it, but you're not that strong at it and it's tiring. And then incompetence is like, you really shouldn't be doing it. And for me, that's like design stuff. I really should not ever be designing anything. I can tell you something looks bad, but I don't know how to fix it. So that exercise is so powerful because then I think instead of copying who everyone else is hiring or, you know, your friend hires this person. Oh, can I have the role description? Oh, and copy pasting, which I think people do early because they're not so confident. You actually get to curate a role that is so dedicated to supporting you in the company for what you actually need. And I think that early as well is really important because then you get a few core team members that are like solidly doing these roles and you hire the right people. Right. Then it's like, cool. What, Okay, I look at this role and now what's the type of person who would do that role? Right. And then that's finding the right person in the right seat. And so I think doing that, that's also another, that's a huge pitfall. People do they just hire a va or hire a social media person because they've heard that when really if you look at the task of what they're doing every day, that's possibly not what they need. Yeah, that's like, yeah, there's a lot you mentioned blocks. So the other, that's one, giving up control. Someone can do it better than you. And also a blind spot I had, which was basically what pushed me back into marketing was that I thought like, who on earth would want to post on my social media every day? Like, are you serious? Like, and so instead of outsourcing that, I just keep doing it. So there is a little bit of a blind spot, not realizing there are people who love to do that stuff that you don't like, love it and you want to find them. Yeah. And the next thing that people say is that they can't afford it or they're afraid to invest that. I think numbers can be, you know, numbers naturally can freak people out and become overwhelming. My journey with numbers is like I couldn't read a spreadsheet. I didn't have a maths background at all. I was always written word. And once I have like one, one Excel that is just my everything basically. And you only need one blueprint of that. If you want, if you want it, you can message me on Instagram and just say like financial blueprint or something and I'll send it to you because I'll send it with a video. Because once I learned that little Excel, I understood our finances and everything financial became so easy. It's just literally your projections, your overheads, your profit. Right. It's very basic. But once I put everything into it, all the expenses, and I do this with people often they go like, oh, I just, I can't afford someone right now. I just can't afford someone. And then we do this little Excel and like I did this with a student the other day and she had a really, really solid ops person working for her who was looking at taking a full time role. And I said, look, how, how, how much do you want to keep this person she was like, oh, she's amazing. And I was like, cool, you should hire her full time. She'd be your first full time hire. She was like, just like panicked. And then I was like, get up your financials. She opened them, we looked at her revenue. I mapped out what at her current rate of full time salary would be and she was like, I think I can do that, I can do that. I just have to like land this one client next week. And then, oh my God, I could have her for a whole year. And I was like, yeah, it's a lot easier than you think, right? And you really quickly realize like all those little tasks you were doing, if you were in your zone of genius, how much value you would be able to bring to the company. Not even just sales, but value. So I think those are, those are huge. Is actually like instead of just being blocked by I can't afford it. It's like, how much would that actually cost? And I'm also a big believer as a philosophy in like you can start with like 20 hours a month or something. But I've built teams of freelancers and consultants and I've built full time teams and I really believe that like full time team members are such a great. Yeah, I think we, I think we've got a little bit like swayed on the like, I've got a freelancer for this and a contractor for that and I've had times where we had 20 people for every different part of the company. It was just actually if you find the right people and you bring them in, you expand their hours and then eventually full time. I really do believe that's like what leads to a solid team culture and committed team members as well.

I agree. And that's where I have a solid ops manager, project manager. She is like the core of everything. Katie. Hey, thanks for listening. She listens to all these too. And yeah, it's just more and more like if you have that solid person that's like an extension of you. It's an extension of, extension of the vision. You're obviously chatting with them very often. And in terms of leadership, like just think of how that's going to help all of us as business owners to, to expand that vision even further. It's that ripple effect starting within the company that we have. And yeah, that's going to help with hiring folks. You know, they'll know the messaging, how to write those descriptions, how to filter and really how to communicate that vision to them so you have bigger buy in.

When we talk about leadership as Well, I think so many people miss, like, there's a misconception of what it means. And you've obviously got that relationship with your OPS person where she's fully empowered, right? She's just like. And that's what you want to create. It's like, instead of, oh, I have to be at the top and delegate. Like, you do have to learn how to delegate. And most of us are really terrible at delegation. But at the same time, it's like, you want to create other leaders. You want that. Like, that's true. Leadership is having other leaders around you. And that looks like giving them full autonomy, trusting them, creating super clear. I think one thing I see a lot is people just think, oh, they should be able to read my mind. It's like, actually, if you really want to empower this person to do it the way that you envision with your values, you have to learn how to create the system for them to implement as well. So that's another skill set of taking. If you've done it with your intellectual property in your courses, you can do it with your business processes. It's the same method of extracting all that little ways that you message clients and little things that you do into these systems. And that makes it so easy for someone in your team to just run with it and really create that leader. And obviously, the other huge thing is company culture with values. Yeah, it's fundamental.

I think that's great. And yeah, I know that's a whole deep discussion there in itself. I would love for folks to reach out to you because I think I want to see this financial sheet too. Because let's be honest, knowing your numbers, like, that's the core of business. Like, we need to know our numbers. It's the fuel for our business. Like, we need to keep the cogs turning and it's financials. And a lot of us are so especially the creatives in us. We love to create stuff and do things and stack stuff and, you know, think, oh, what if I did this? Or who, you know, connected it here or whatever. So.

I think you said reach out to Instagram, so, like, yeah, of course.

Yeah, yeah, you can drop on Instagram. We're at untapped hq, so that's the untapped Instagram just message. Like financial blueprint of something. If you're listening to this, I'll know what it is. Everyone on our team knows what it is. It's like, it's the thing, right? And every student, when they join, has to first do that. It's like one of the second things they do in the program. So drop a direct message and we can get you the template. You can make a copy for yourself. And there's a video training where I walk through how to put in all your numbers. So it's gold. And it was super cool the other day I was at this big, very high level mastermind with a bunch of like financial modeling and people running hundred million dollar companies and things. And I was like, okay, what is everyone using for your financial modeling? Like profitability analysis and stuff. And they're like Excel, just one good Excel, you know. And so yeah, and I was like, it was cool because sometimes I think we think like that's, I'm gonna need something new and maybe you will, you know, later on. But yeah, it's so perfect to like just get everything in front of you and really see the breakdown of what's happening.

I think it's perfect. And yeah, we don't need to overcomplicate things really. It's should really be a few key numbers, right. That we need to pay attention to, but we want to pay attention to them because we want numbers to go up. Typically some numbers go down, but the point is pay attention. It's all about awareness and not being scared of these things because I know I've been guilty of that. I'm not typically the one that loves to dive into financials, but if I understand them, if I am aware of them, then I have a goal, I have motivation and clarity of what the heck we're doing. And then like you said, it's probably a faster way to start getting help and realize, oh, that those patterns as mental or money patterns, that is that I had from the past for whatever reason don't have to stay with me.

Of course. Yeah. And yeah, it makes hiring decisions easy. Um, subscription creep in online businesses is very real. Like when you start realizing you're spending like thousands a month on subscriptions, you're like, wow, okay. So you've got to see that stuff as the leader. Right. And it really does help as well with if you're trying to decide what programs to double down on because it shows you immediately like, this is the data, this is what's working, this is what it's costing us. This is. And it, it really does help a lot with all decisions. And I think, yeah, I think all of us probably know those like 3am you wake up, you're like, gah, this thing or that thing or the tax bill, whatever. And so if you're not across your Numbers. You have more of those kind of nights when you know your numbers. You're just like, you're pretty relaxed, you're pretty solid. Even during, you know, economic crisis. Like, economic times right now, it's tough out there. I knew exactly who we could hire, how long, how much we could pay them. The Runway of like, revenue for a year. And it's just. Yeah, that's literally what helps you sleep.

So isn't that like what the definition of anxiety is? Literally, like, just not knowing what's going on or like, is unknown. It's like, well, you know, if it's good, even if it's bad, it's like you have an idea and you can make a plan. So.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the one that one of the mistake people make is thinking their accountant will help them with their numbers. And the thing I always say with that, it's like your accountant is retrospective. Like, you've had a great year, now give me all the receipts and like, there's your tax bill. That's a retrospective. When you're an entrepreneur and you're a visionary, you're looking forwards. What am I projecting? What are we creating? What's our revenue goals? Who can we hire? So it's a totally different energy to go from at the end of the year being told how much you made to future forecasting and creating.

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yes. All right, well, there's so many great resources. I'm going to link them all in the show notes and make sure that they're very accessible because, Bri, you've been amazing and I can't. I can't wait to hear where people go with this. So I guess give me one more shout out to your site and everything and maybe any final messages or parting words here for everyone.

Of course. So we're untapped nz. Still rocking the NZ domain. I love it on Instagram. We're untapped hq. Feel free to message on either of those. Get the business reflection on the site message on Instagram. We'd love to hear any insight, insights that you got from this conversation. Of course. Pass on the financial blueprint. And yeah, final words of wisdom is like, you can become. You can learn anything. I think when we're trying to scale or grow our business or step into these new territories of leadership, it can be really daunting and a lot of people feel like an imposter or feel like giving up or I remember all the moments crying like, I don't know how to hire people. I don't know how to manage people. And it's like just generosity with yourself. Like, you shouldn't know because you're learning and you can learn anything. And it's pretty cool collecting these new skills as you go. So just staying that path and getting, you know, listening to resources like this and getting mentorship is so important. Yeah.

Cool. Well, thank you so much. I know you have a podcast as well, so dive into the show over there. You and your partner have that going on. So lots of great resources. No excuses to not to keep learning and be kind to yourself. Yeah, we're all just doing step by step. It's all good.

Gotta remember exactly. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, Josh.

Awesome. Thank you very much. All right, all right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live if you need to do the work. But, you know, work can be fun and it should be fueling for your life. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list, writing a review or whatever it might be. Everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, and I will see you next time.

Sam.