Vince Reed — Scale Your Traffic Using The Big 5 Ad Platforms

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What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear. Yo, yo, yo. What's up? Welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

You're Yoan today, huh?

I'm Yoan.

Cool. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

My name is Matt, and I'm here with Joe. Joe, I'm just gonna start rapping our intros now.

I would love to see you rap.

I just said, yo, yo, yo. I'm here with Joe.

Anyway, you're the hottest, hottest guy on the Spotify charts these days. It's crazy for podcasts. You get it? All right, go ahead. Go on, Matt.

All right. So today's guest is a traffic and leads master.

Master.

He's absolutely, and I say that very literally, he's made it his life's work to master traffic and lead generation. So today we're talking to Vince Reed. He's got a book called Internet Traffic and Leads, which when Joe and I found out we're having him on the podcast, we both picked up a copy and read through it and got a whole bunch of new ideas for traffic. So definitely pick that up. But on this episode, we're going to talk specifically about a few traffic sources that have sort of mystified us a little bit. YouTube traffic, Twitter traffic, Instagram traffic. We touch on Facebook and Google a little bit, but we focus on those other ones because we have quite a bit of other episodes about Google and Facebook and some of those other traffic sources. So we wanted to touch really closely on the ones that we kind of needed our own demystifying. And Vince did not disappoint.

Hey, Vince. Vince. This pump miked me up a lot because Matt and I, we have a bunch of traffic going out there, paid networks all over the place. We connect them very similar to what Vince is doing. But at the same time, the way that Vince describes this, it had my mind going in all these different directions. Just the fact that he's talking about Twitter ads and how he's literally getting penny clicks to his websites based off of kind of set and forget Twitter ads. That just in itself should intrigue you to listen further, and I challenge you to do so. But at the same time, like the mastery. So if you read his or when you read his book, you know, and we'll give you the name, it's actually Internet traffic and leads, but it's all about mastery. So instead of this going wide thing where a lot of entrepreneurs, business owners, Just take forever or never get traction or just kind of fail. They don't go deep. If you go deep like Vince is, he's like the epitome of going deep on mastering traffic and getting quality leads. That's what this thing's all about. So if that's what you're looking for, you're in for a treat.

Absolutely. And you know, this podcast, again, is brought to you by Evergreen Profits. If you like these episodes, please share them around. That's how we get the word out is just people like you listening, going, this was a really good episode. You should listen to it. The more you share it, the more we love you and the more reach we get and the better guests we get on.

So thank you, thank you, thank you.

So thanks for what you've done so far and we'd love it if you could share this episode if you enjoy it. But let's go ahead and dive in with Vince Reed.

Hey, Vince, how you doing, man?

I'm doing awesome. What's going on?

Oh, it's a good day. It's hot, man. In San Diego, are you up in. You're in what? SoCal, right?

I mean, I'm in. Yeah, I'm in Orange county and northern OC 20 minutes from like Newport, Laguna beach and all that. Yeah.

Way cooler than here inland. Yeah, man. So we all, you know, you, me, Matt originally met in speakeasy San Diego, probably a couple months ago or so now.

Yeah, that was awesome.

Loved it.

Yeah, that's. We were just talking about, like you were saying, you were just speaking at War Room. It almost has like that kind of feel, you know, the best of the best people.

Definitely, definitely does.

Yeah, man. So, no, it was really fascinating. I think you and Matt hit it off there and we're talking, we chatted.

For a few minutes and I went, yeah, I gotta follow up with this guy, get him on our podcast. You got some good stuff. And then found out you had a book and went and grabbed your free plus shipping offer on the book and devoured the book over a two or three day period and here we are.

Awesome.

And before getting any further, definitely, I'm just gonna give you a shout out for that book. Internet traffic and leads, definitely legit. A lot of cool storytelling in there, backstory, but so many actionable lessons throughout the whole thing.

Cool. And what's the best place for people to go grab it if they want to get the book for free?

Yeah, you can get the free plus shipping offer. So always transparent. You will be paying for shipping, but yeah, you can go to internettrafficandleads.com Sweet.

Right on, man. Well, yeah, I just wanted to give you that shout out before we dug in, but. But let's get into the. How you kind of came into this world. I think it was about, what, 10, 11 years ago or so.

Yeah, man. I'm like a senior citizen in the online marketing world. Right. I made it past the 90 day. You know, everyone comes in, oh, I didn't make any money in 90 days. They quit. Right. So, yeah, you know, I got in. And back in 2007, I like to say, like, online marketing world kind of found me. I was in real estate. The. The entire industry, what I thought collapsed, which isn't technically true. I can give you some more backstory on that. But in my world, in my eyes at the time it collapsed, I lost everything. I had a small little mortgage company and banks pretty much stopped lending, and I was doing a lot of subprime lending. And for those of you who were around back then, it was a pretty bad time for a lot of people. There weren't really jobs going around. And I did. What a lot of people did, was I went out to try to find a way to make money, and I went online and I pretty much searched for how to make money online. And, you know, the backstory of that is people always say, well, why don't you just go get a job? And I think today, because the economy is so much better and there's so many jobs available, that's like the logical answer. And to be honest, I'm glad it wasn't that way because I probably wouldn't be here talking to you today. But they weren't. There were no jobs, they weren't hiring. You know, unemployment rate was the highest it was ever, pretty much. Maybe there was another time in history was it was as high, but it was pretty rough. And I just saw an ad that said make money on Google and clicked on it and opened up my eyes to an entirely new world.

It's fascinating. Matt and I were. I mean, it was around the same time we kind of all started. We just did in different facets. We weren't in real estate. You were definitely. You were in a whole different ball game there, you know, but the jobs.

That we worked in got destroyed because of real estate.

Totally. Yeah. So really? Yeah. Very similar where it was almost forced into this online world to make something for ourselves.

Yeah. People don't realize that whole real estate debacle destroyed a lot of industries as a result of people Just.

Doing what they thought was right. I mean, you had these banks pushing programs to get people in homes and it all came pretty much crashing down.

Yeah, yeah. In 2008, we were working for a shutter company, like window covering shutters. And funny thing happens, when people stop buying houses, they stop buying shutters as well. So definitely, definitely had a big impact on the business. The business eventually went bankrupt and good times basically forced us into finding something new.

So same thing for you. We should just stand up and give ourselves a round of applause for the meltdown.

I mean, that's what I always think, man. Like there's like a crash. Like you said, real estate crash or you know, like the whole dry up thing. But it's always, it gets you thinking a little bit more creative, out of the box, lateral. And the fact that you clicked a link in Google and it wasn't a scam or maybe it was and you saw right through it or something.

Yeah. So what did you find on Google? What was the thing that kind of was that catalyst for you?

Well, for me, making money on Google sounded better than flipping burgers. So as I dove in, it was basically the ad I clicked on. It was a lady that was selling this ebook, Google Secrets. But basically when you call her, it was a lead magnet. She would pitch you this direct sales opportunity and then she would say, if you get in my direct sales opportunity, which is two grand, you get this ebook. And I knew nothing about online marketing and I tell people this all the time. I could barely send an attachment on an email. I would have assistance and processes through all my online stuff. I literally was computer illiterate when I got started online. So when people come to me today that know me back then, they laugh like, people come to you for marketing online. Like, do they like not know that you were a complete idiot when it comes to that stuff back in the day? So, you know, I did some research on the lady and you know, because you know when you don't know anything, everything you find online is true. I saw a couple like scam things about the lady, which was probably someone that got mad and wrote some review. And. But the good news about that was it got me researching other things. So I kept searching and I started searching now direct sales companies. I didn't know what that was. And when I was searching these different direct sales opportunities, I saw more ads and I kept seeing the same person pop up. And then for whatever reason, I just said, man, if I could learn how to do this, this must be what the lady's Talking about. About making money on Google. I would, you know, position myself to do the same thing. So I didn't even know what the guy was selling. I just basically opted in, tracked him down, and gave him $2,000. I didn't have sold everything else that was in my house because during this time, I was losing everything. Home was in pre foreclosure, had lost my car, girlfriend was paying the bills. It was a pretty rough time. So $2,000 was literally pretty much all the money I had left. And I bought it just to learn from this guy.

Just the fact that you put your ass in the line like that and. And actually took that leave with, like, you said, the money you didn't have. Probably some credit cards or something and.

A little bit of everything, man. Credit cards, selling stuff. The good thing was I had a mortgage company. So in my garage, when I shut down my mortgage company, I had like a lot of computers and desk and chairs. So I just started selling on Craigslist and just rounding up any kind of cash that I could get my hands on.

I love that mentality, man, because there's so many people that will, like, squabble over, you know, $100 product or $500 product when they do have a business, but they just don't want to take it further. And obviously there's a whole discussion there. But the fact that you took the leap. I know Matt and I actually invested in a course around the same time for about that amount of money. Scary as shit. Especially with your wife or girlfriend there paying the bills.

It was definitely tough times. And I remember when I did it, I said, well, worst case scenario, I'm already losing my house. I don't have anything. What's the worst that can happen? The only thing that I can do is grow up. And I remember saying, look, I'm gonna put my head down, I'm gonna learn this, and I'm gonna not look up for 12 months. And things started to turn really quickly.

So that right there, what you just said right there triggered something in the book. So when I'm reading, when we read your book, something that stood out to me was the mastery, this concept of going all in and going deep, not this wide approach that a lot of people take. They want to test everything. What got you into that mindset?

Yeah, you know, like. Well, I'll tell you, when I was in real estate, I remember, you know, what's different about that industry? And let's say, like, the online marketing world or online businesses or just entrepreneurship back then was no one shared their secrets. Like, I just got in because everybody was doing it. I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have anybody to like. Well, I'm not sure I shouldn't say. I didn't have anyone. I didn't seek that out. That was a flaw in my own inner game. So when I got online, I was shocked that these people were willing to teach me their secrets. So when I started running my first Google Ads, I sold some more stuff. And for whatever reason, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. You can put ads up and people are searching for stuff and they'll click on your ad and you'll make money. I just sent this guy $2,000 from doing the same thing. So click. Clearly there's gotta be other people that would do the same thing for me. I have to learn how to do it. So I rounded up some more money, put $1,000 into Google AdWords, and lost all that money in like 30 minutes. Like, no leads. I got a bunch of clicks. And instead of really being disappointed about it, obviously I wasn't happy. I remember stepping back and being, okay, hold on a second. Like three to four thousand people just clicked on my ad. They didn't take action. But that's real people that were interested, how do I figure out how to do this better? And I called up the mentor who taught me this. And by the way, all he taught me was, go to Google AdWords, bid on a keyword, and they'll hit your page and you'll make money. There was no strategy behind it. So he then said, oh, there's this other guy that you should go learn from his systems, like, 50 bucks a month and he'll teach you how to do it better. Then I was like, okay, cool. I joined that. And that became actually my real mentor to this day. This was a guy who made over $27 million by his 21st birthday. Excuse me, he made over 27. No, he made over $21 million by his 27th birthday. And he was really, really, in my opinion, still to this day, was the goat of paid advertising.

Is that a guy you can name or is that.

Yeah, it was a guy named Jonathan Budd. Yeah, he owns a solar company now.

He's another San Diego dude.

Yeah, he's out in San Diego. One of my good friends. And he and I are, like, really close to this day. And he taught me the basics, and I became one of his top affiliates. And, you know, that's kind of what got me started. And when he kind of left the industry. That opened up a hole for a new kind of lead generation marketing guy. And I kind of wanted to keep his legacy alive, so to speak.

I love it. Yeah. I mean, Jonathan Budd is actually one of the guys that we studied in the early days, so he was a little more focused in the network marketing space, which wasn't really our game. But the people that were doing the network marketing stuff were. Were the people that I loved to study because I think those were the people that had it the most figured out, the most systematized. You know, the Jonathan Budds and the Mike Dillard back then.

Exactly. Yeah. Those two guys were like the pioneers of the whole attraction marketing and online marketing space. So. Absolutely. Yeah. That's where I got started and learned how to do it the right way. And that was what really got me focused on mastery. And I realized right away that anybody can go place an ad. You can go on Google right now and search how to run any type of ad and you'll find a tutorial. But why is it that when most people go do it, they don't get results? And then that's when I realized that it was all about strategy. Kind of what I was talking about this week speaking at War Room. It's like how I use strategy with my ads more than just placing an ad.

I love it. Now when you said you spent $1,000 on Google Ads and you pretty much lost it all and made no sales and then you kind of, you learned some things and you made some tweaks and you went back and then you kind of started to figure it out. Was there, you know, one or two factors that you kind of figured out that you didn't really do the first time around, that you learned your lessons and these were what you learned.

Absolutely. And people to this day still make the same mistake. And I see it and I kind of chuckle under my breath sometimes. I'm like, gosh, that person, if they only knew. So the first thing you have to do and it's like marketing one on one, is you've got to capture what's going on inside your prospect's mind. So. And you also have to understand the difference between putting your content in front of buyers versus shoppers. And then the last thing that you have to do is you've got to frame your ads based on what the person is actually where they are currently. So let me kind of break all that down. So capture what's going on inside of a prospect's mind. If I'm bidding on a Keyword, or if I'm running an ad and it's, you know, you know how to advertise on Facebook, right? Then what my copy on the page that they click, it has to correlate to what that person just was searching for, right? Where a lot of people, it's not congruent, like they'll have like, you know, they'll bid on keywords like online marketing, right? And that's a person that's just shopping, just trying to understand what online marketing is all about and then try to take them to this page that isn't really correlating to what was going on inside that prospect's mind. So instead of bidding on online marketing, if you were trying, if your page was about how to get, let's just say, in my opinion, what I do a lot of ads on is how to get lower cost leads that convert into sales.

My page will match that. Now, the last part, what I said was you have to figure out where that person currently is. So, for example, this is a big problem people have. If I'm running an ad and let's just say the ad is like how to advertise on Facebook, that could attract anybody. A person with a business person that's just curious about what Facebook ads are, A person that is doing Facebook ads, you're going to have a wide range of results because you're all over the place. Because your ad is simply how to run ads on Facebook. But if my ads are the two methods I use to lower my Facebook ads, convert ad costs and boost conversions, or to lower my Facebook lead costs and boost conversions, and I target people that are actually already advertising on Facebook.

Then when they opt in, my message needs to be geared towards helping them improve their performance, because I already know that they're actually already advertising. So a lot of times people are building a list, and because they're not really thinking that deep in terms of mastery, they're building a list of beginners. And if I opt into your opt in page and it's like how to run Facebook ads, I'm not gonna ever really buy from you because I already know how to run Facebook ads. What I'm looking for is something different or a new strategy, and you can build the wrong list. And in your head, you look at it like I'm getting all these leads, people opting in for Facebook ads, but they already are doing it. So you've gotta be conscious of are they in the act of doing or are they in the act of learning? And that's just an Example of strategy.

That makes sense. Yeah.

So everything that we've talked, we consulted a bunch of people still do. We have our own membership. We teach a lot of traffic stuff. Branding. We have a whole strategy of our own. And that is the number one thing that the issue that we're seeing for people, they'll be running some Google Ads here, some Facebook ads, mainly on Facebook, but no one's putting this thing into a strategy of how it connects or why they're even doing it. Or like you said, I love. Like, where are they actually in the funnel or in their whole customer journey? You know, are they just right at the very tippy top where they need to get indoctrinated, or are they down there, like checkout page left and you need to grab them back, right?

Absolutely.

That's really cool, man. So what's. I'm curious. So, like, if you were to tell someone to start now, and I know this could be a loaded question, it depends on the platform, where would you tell someone who has a product that's thinking about starting to run some paid traffic and wants to build a solid strategy around their thing?

So I usually run ads on five platforms. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Google. So I live on five platforms. And it didn't start that way. When I started, I started on Google, AdWords, and then I actually went to Yahoo, Yahoo, Bing, and then I went to Facebook. Way before people were even on Facebook, there was no Instagram. And those are kind of the first three. So. And this is over 10 years, so I do consider myself an expert in all five of those. But it didn't start off that way. So when you're starting off, what I tell people to do is use the platform that they feel the most comfortable with that they're on the most. So, for example, I do some media buys and I also do, like, retargeting with different platforms, for example, like AdRoll and things like that. If I were to tell you to start doing that and you had never done that before or don't even know what I'm talking about, and you put money in that, it doesn't work, then Vince Strategies does not work. It's a scam, because that's not something that you're familiar with. So if you spend a lot of your time on Instagram or you spend a lot of your time on Facebook and you're accustomed to seeing ads on those platforms, my advice is to start off using that platform first and master that one because you already have a sense of commitment or, you know, that it works because you've seen other people doing it and you actually use the platform. So when things don't go your way, which it likely won't in the beginning, not like in your head or that doesn't work, and you get scared to advertise. Another tip, I just would tell people, and I just want to say this, I don't want to forget this point in the whole scheme of running ads. The goal of advertising is to figure out a way to invest more. And that's what I tell a business. Like, figure out a way to. What most people do when they come to me is like, this is my budget, and this is what I want to spend to make money. Right? Now, the whole premise, and you've probably heard this before, I know some people who advertise, they hear this kind of analogy all the time. Like, the goal is, let's say you're standing in a vending machine. You put a dollar in the vending machine, it spits out $2. How many $ bills would you put into the vending machine? And the answer is, you'd stand there all day. You'd be drinking coffee so you wouldn't fall asleep, because every time you put a dollar in, you get $2 out. So you wouldn't be standing there saying, well, my budget is 5,000, so I'm only going to put 5,000 if I make 10 in this vending machine. So that's the goal. So the first goal, after you figure out which platform you want to use is to get over the fear of actually investing in ads. The goal is, how can you invest more? Not like, what is the least I can invest.

Yeah. So how have you seen people get over that hump? Because I know a common question we'll receive is like, all right, so what kind of daily budget should I go for? Oh, but my budget's actually only this.

Right? Here's the deal. When you. So I tell people this. I spoke about this this week. So marketing is like insider trading. So I talked about the movie Wall Street. I love the movie Wall street, one of my favorite movies. Those of you haven't seen Wall street, go watch it immediately. There's a character in the movie called Gordon Gekko. You guys are familiar with Gordon Gekko? All right, so Gordon Gekko made millions, if not billions of dollars because he got inside information that allowed him to take advantage of different trades and obviously, whether he was short in a stock or buying a company. And he leveraged little bits of pieces of information, and that landed him in jail. The beautiful thing about marketing online is that we could leverage insider trading, but it's legal, okay? And the way that you do that is by collecting data. So if you do the things we talked about earlier, like, we know what they were thinking. Are they in the act of doing or learning? And we gear our marketing, and we capture what's going on inside the prospect's mind, and they get in, and we're actually solving their problem, and we know exactly what their problem was. And then you use different types of things, like retargeting and collecting data, like maybe people that have engaged with your page or people that have watched percentages of your video. All these little pieces of data that we can collect made Gordon Gekko millions, if not billions of dollars. But when you're running ads on social media, most people aren't thinking of it that way. They're not thinking that they could take advantage of this data and this information. So you have to be thinking that way. Like, this is all information that you can use to your advantage. And that's why I say it's like legalized insider trading.

Yeah, I love that analogy. I love that analogy. And, you know, it's funny because I've used the analogy of insider trading, but in a different sort of perspective. For affiliate marketing, one of the ways that we sort of leverage the concepts of insider trading in our business is that whenever we promote a product as an affiliate, we get in really, really, really good with the product creator. We become great friends with the product creator. We get on calls with them. We learn everything about their business. We learn what's coming out in the future. We try to get as much intel from the actual product creator as we can, because we get to leverage all of that information inside of our advertising, inside of our landing pages, inside of our blog, inside of our email list.

Well, we also try to get that pixel on the thank you page, too.

You know, if we get a close enough relationship, we'll even try to get our pixels on their success pages. So just another way to leverage insider trading, and that whole concept with your paid traffic efforts is really focus on building relationships with people.

Absolutely.

I think that's the coolest thing when you go deep, and this is great for beginners to hear, is you just start. Like you said, it's insider trading, but it's almost like a science. It's just a math problem. And it's like if you have just have that perspective of what you mapped out, what you just said there, you put it together and actually think. Think of how the stuff is connected and it's. Yeah. And Vince, you can probably speak to this. You can't spend as much as you can possibly spend and then think that the ads are going to be identical. You know, you're going to convert the same amount. But if you have this system, you can kind of support all these different things, you know, with retargeting and all that.

Absolutely.

Now, I know you also have a sort of unique approach and a unique philosophy on actually scaling ads. I think last time we chatted, you kind of brought it up about how most people think, okay, cool, if I'm putting $100 in and I'm getting $200 out, well, then if I put $200 in, I'll get $400 out. But us who all do advertising know that's not usually the case. Do you want to touch on that a little bit and kind of talk about your philosophy towards that kind of thing and scaling?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the key to marketing, in my opinion, is to truly understand each platform and each platform is different. But to simplify things, let's just break it up. So there's social media advertising, and then there's like, search traffic sites like Google and YouTube. Those are two different types of mindsets. So typically when you talk to someone about scaling ads and let's say you're getting a decent performance on the ad that you're running, what a lot of marketers or influencers or whatnot, they'll tell you, okay, well, if you're spending 100 and you're getting this result, then just spend 200 and you'll double your results. Right. Now that is true in my opinion, in some cases more so on search traffic, because it's people searching for something specific. And if you doubled your money, you'd reach more people searching for that thing, and you probably would get the best results. But on social media, it actually works the complete opposite. Because, remember, when you're running ads on social media, no one was searching for anything. I mean, there's no one in the history of social media that ever woke up and said, I'm gonna go on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram to buy something. Yeah, right. But everybody advertises as if that's what people do. So what you have to realize is when you double or triple or whatever quadruple your ad spend on social media, what they're going to do is put your ads in front of more people, which means you get further and further away from all the things that we were just talking about right in Terms of people who were capturing what's going on inside their mind and they're just trying to reach because everyone's there. And more importantly, you are interrupting them. Social media is interruption marketing. It's no different than you putting a billboard out or driving by a billboard when you're driving down the street. The only difference between the billboard of social media and the billboard of you driving down the street when you're driving, you're just going to see that billboard. If you're on a certain street, it's just there. The beauty of social media and what makes it so genius is the fact that you can say, the only people I want to see this billboard are people between 25 and 35 who like the Lakers and online marketing, right? So, you know, imagine if you were driving down the street, all of a sudden your car stopped, and it's like, sorry, you can't keep going because you're not 21 to 55 like the Lakers and online marketing, right? That's kind of the brilliance of it. But to answer your question, how do you scale? Because I know you're like, okay, this is a scaling question. The first thing you want to do is you have to basically look at your numbers. It's very important to know your numbers when you're advertising on social media. So let's say that you are getting leads at $5. Your number one goal before you invest more into ads should be to see what you can do to lower that lead conversion cost, right? So see if you can even get the lead cost of $3.75 or $3.50, and then see what you can do to boost your conversions. Because at that point, you could invest the same exact amount of money. And you're technically scaling because now you're gonna get more leads, you're gonna reach more people.

And I love that because that's in your control, what you just said right there.

Absolutely, that's in your control. So then people are gonna say, well, Vince, well, I just. This is great what I'm doing. I want more people. Then what I would do on social media is I don't necessarily just double the ad cost. I increase the ad budget by 10 to 20% on that ad set. And what I'll do is I'll find other buckets of audiences and spend the exact same amount. Let me give you an example.

Okay?

So let's say I'm targeting. I'm a big Laker fan, so let's just use the Lakers. Just something that. Let's say I'm targeting, I have an ad. If whatever reason I'm targeting Laker, like people who love the Lakers and it's getting good results, the first thing I would do is I'd go try to lower, see what I can do, look at my pace, make sure everything's congruent, maybe split, test another page, see if I can get my lead cost down. And then obviously they've opted in and see what I can do to boost my conversions. Now, after a month, I'd go back to that ad. If it's performing well, I'd increase it 10 to 20% on that ad set to the Lakers. Now, if I'm like, this is just operating so crazy. I need to. This is just awesome. I want to reach more people, then I would go do the same ad, duplicate it now and target Boston Celtics fans and do the same thing. And then I would go. And then it'd be one interest group. Then it'd be, you know, I don't know, Philadelphia 76ers fans, and I'm still spending. And then I would increase those by 10 to 20%. I wouldn't take that Laker ad and just go from $100 to $1000. Got it. Now, let's say my product. Now, some people like, well, Vince, well, what if my product is only to do with the Lakers? Now, again, people who are listening to this just think of the Lakers as your audience. I'm just using this as an example. Then what you have to do is think about the process that people go through before they make the buying decision, during and after. So in the Lakers case, okay, maybe people are searching for, like, the Lakers or what they're looking at before and then during the buying process, maybe I'm selling jerseys or shoes. I could go target different shoe brands and different jersey companies and brands. And then after, maybe I just target the different teams or whatnot. So basically what I'm saying is I would find everything that I could figure out that's related to the Lakers during the buying process, before they buy, during time they buy, and after the process, they buy. And I'd make sure my ads are all there. And at some point you're going to hit the people you want. That's related to what you're ultimately trying to sell, which would be people who have interest in the Lakers. All right, so that is high level. And people might. That might go over some people's heads. But what I'm really teaching you is targeting. So when you're targeting, people are always trying to find different interest Groups, just think about it, like, what are people looking at or doing before, after or during and after. So let me give you one other example. The Lakers might be kind of hard to think about. Let's say it's real estate, right? So let's say you're like selling. You're a Realtor and you want. You're trying to get people who are going to buy a house, right? So maybe at first you're just targeting.

Like other real estate companies, ReMax Century 21 or whatever, right. And then during the process, maybe you're targeting different moving companies, people that are already in the process of moving, right. They're moving all the things, furniture shops, people that people are in the process. They wouldn't be looking for furniture. They may, you know, maybe you're in your house, but a lot of times people are doing that when they're looking to move. And then after, maybe you're targeting just straight up homeowners, right? That's an example of like they're already in the house. So like just finding buckets of.

Audiences in the before process, during process and after process is how I perfect sense.

Yeah. And it's obviously, you got to understand your avatar, what their current pains, struggles, their current goals are. Compare that to obviously where they're currently at and then also figure out where do they want to go in like, you know, five years or so, what kind of pains are they going to be experiencing then? What kind of goals do they have in their minds, more or less. And then exactly what you said. I mean, those are your audiences. That's how you can make all those ads. So when you're. Because we don't do a lot of this on Facebook, we're starting to. Is. So if you go cold on Facebook, do you have a strategy, like a kind of a go to way to kickstart this thing?

If you're targeting cold traffic.

Yeah, cold traffic, yeah.

So I mean, there's a bunch of ways that you can do it in Facebook specifically. Like, you know, again, I think it all starts with what is the end goal, right? Like what are you trying to. Who are you trying to target and what is it that they're buying? So in terms of audience size, you know, you get a lot of people that have different philosophies, right? They'll say people go smaller audiences. Some people say go to a million plus, you know, reach. I like to go really large and allow Facebook to just work and get smarter. What I believe is that Facebook is designed for the advertiser to be really not very bright, if that makes sense. With Google, you have to have more strategy because you got to think about what are the buying keywords. The beauty of Facebook is the pixel gets more intelligent the longer you let it run. So if you're doing cold traffic, be really clear with your message. Call out the right audience, connect with them on a deeper level, and then give them a call to action that's gonna solve their problem and just let that run. The cold traffic. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make with paid ads is they stop their ads too fast. And every time you do that, you start over in the auction, it ruins the algorithm, and it just destroys the pixel. So you're better off, in my opinion, just turning the ad budget down without turning the ad off. But to do that, I think it's even more important to do your research and know what you're trying to do before you even get the ad started so you're not constantly stopping and pausing. And I see people react way too fast. Oh, the leads were 10 bucks today. We'll give it another day. Let it get smart. It probably just put it in front of a bucket. That wasn't your ideal niche market. It'll adjust. So let it get smarter and let it run now.

How long do you recommend people let it go before they start making a decision on an ad?

Worst? I mean, at least a week. I give it seven days. I like to let mine run.

For at least a month, you know, but again, I've been doing this a long time, so before I get an ad up there, I'm gonna know kind of what I'm doing. But I understand some people like, this isn't working. I'm losing money. If you feel that way, then my advice would be to find a mentor or someone else that can kind of look at it. So you don't make it, but don't run. What you don't want to do is turn it on, and then two days, turn it off, and then say, oh, this wasn't successful. It's just not that way because, you know, again, it's interruption marketing.

Yeah. And one interesting thing that I've noticed over the years is a lot of times you mentioned just, you know, if an ad, you're not quite sure about it, don't turn it off. Just drop the budget. One thing I've actually noticed is a lot of times when I drop the budget on ads, I actually tend to get sometimes, not always. I start to actually see more conversions on that ad when I drop the budget, because Now, Facebook is essentially trying to squeeze as many, many of your ideal people at that smaller budget.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but, like, when you actually drop the budget, Facebook actually tries to get more of the right type of people through that ad, you know, for whatever your conversion goal is at that smaller budget. And sometimes you actually might see your conversion rate go up when you drop your budget on an ad.

Right. And I've seen that too, and I've tried. I have a bunch of reasons for this, but none of them, I have no factual data behind this. I gladly share with you my thoughts on why that happens, if you want, but. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I think that happens because when you go with a lower budget, it doesn't put your ad in as many placements. So, like, when you spend more money, then you're spending your ad budget on more placements. So what I would do is if you see that happen, go in and check your, your ads manager and see where the conversions came from. And then when you go back up on your budget, just turn off the other placements and just advertise there.

Oh, that makes sense.

That makes sense because Facebook's, you know, in theory here is optimizing for the best that they know how to optimize that ad.

But for them to do that, for them to do that, they've got to, like, put it out everywhere and see. Right. And in that process, you're spending more of your money and then you're getting different conversions. It's costing you more.

Right.

So, yeah, makes sense. Now there's a. There's a few platforms that you mentioned that, you know, we haven't really experimented with much ourselves. So I'm. I'm kind of curious to dive down those rabbit holes a little bit. Now, we do a lot with Google. We do a lot with Facebook. But YouTube, Twitter and Instagram, we don't really do much with at all Instagram. You know, sometimes kind of along the lines of what you were saying is with Instagram, a lot of times when we create an ad, we'll just let Facebook pick the placements because they're obviously, you know, they want their ad, their people running ads to be successful, so they're going to put them in the placements that work and try to optimize for you. So we do have Instagram ads running, but they're just kind of by default. We don't actually break them out into separate ad groups or anything like that. They're just kind of running because we're telling Facebook, do what you want with this money and figure it out for us. What's your philosophy on let's start with Instagram ads?

I love them. I mean, I think that you have to be where the eyeballs are, and I think that they all work together. Like, I love Instagram. I mean, the eyeballs are there. There's very little distractions. I mean, think about it. When you even a mobile ad, when it's on Facebook, there's always other videos popping up and you can see stuff happening. It's way more distractions. But you see an image on Instagram, on your phone app, you have a lot more attention to. So I think that if you can figure out a way to make some shorter videos, especially run some story ads, I really love these days. I think that it's an advantage for you.

And something I've noticed and I think Matt has as well, you have your personal account, but then you have your business account. And it just seems like a lot more effort to get the business account cranking to get followers, engagement and all that compared to something like a personal profile. Do you have any kind of tactics or strategies on how to kind of ramp up that business to get more followers?

Yeah, you know, I think that first off, I think that everybody should be running, like, you know, spending five to ten bucks a day just running, like, campaigns to their page. I think you should constantly be getting fans. I think there's value to it. And here's why. When you run ads, and I don't think a lot of people do this, and here's another kind of superpower of social media that I don't think people quite realize. You know, when you see an ad on Facebook and then you look above the ad, you'll see, like, some of your friends that, like that person.

Mm.

The more fans you have on Facebook, the more people are connected to the people that see your ads, right?

Yeah.

So when you run an ad, you can go in and say, I want to target people that like social media marketing who also are and also target the friends of my fans. Right. So each personal profile could have up to 5,000 friends. So if you've got 10,000 people that follow you, and then you go and you say, I want to target the friends of my fans. Your audience could be massive, Right? It could be like 20 million, 100 million people just off of 10,000 fans, then you go and you say, now I want to filter that down and only target people that like social media marketing. Now your ads are only displaying the people who like social media advertising who are connected to people who already like you.

I follow you.

Yeah, right. So I think that why should you be running a little like campaign to build that follower base. So the more people that see your ads, they recognize people that are connected to you. That right there is power. I mean, I know my wife, she came to me, she's like, you gotta check out this person's like, ad. There was some kind of product, some fitness thing that she saw on her phone. I always tell her to showing me like, interesting ads that she sees. And she's like, the only reason I saw this is because one of her friends had liked this person.

Right.

That's the only reason she paid attention to the ad.

That's so much power in that because that's how we would interact as humans, like face to face, you know, recommend. Hey, you know, Matt recommends me a book or something like that, like you did yesterday. I bought it.

Right.

You know, it wasn't from an ad, but if an ad did that I saw Matt liked it or follows whoever, more high likelihood. I'll probably look into it.

Now. Is there something of the equivalent on Instagram of a like, campaign on Facebook?

Well, not yet, but what you can do is you can basically run ads to your followers on Facebook and tell them to connect with you and like you over on Instagram. That's what a lot of people are doing consistently.

So you're just linking the ad straight over to the Instagram page.

Just link them right to your Instagram page.

That might be worth throwing, you know, five bucks a day at or something.

Absolutely. Will definitely grow your Instagram following.

With Twitter. I'm curious about Twitter. I've tested Twitter ads in the past. I didn't go real deep on it, but I've tested them, experimented, played with them. Never really got much results from Twitter. And when I get on, I'm not a big Twitter user myself and when I get on Twitter, to me it just seems like a whole bunch of automated feeds these days. There's not a lot of real life engagement going on unless you're, you know, following what Donald Trump's talking about or something. But.

I guess what's your approach to Twitter ads? To grab attention? Because I do feel like Twitter has kind of fallen out of favor quite a bit over the last couple years.

It has, but it's still a top 10, 15 website in terms of traffic in the world. Right. So people are there and it's another place for you to be recognized and just be everywhere your customers are I don't see. I don't really use Twitter as much for like high level conversions. I use it more to build audience and to build awareness. Because you can still get the penny views. You can still target people who like certain or who follow certain influencers.

You can direct message people that follow you. One of the strategies that you can no longer do was when people would follow you, you could send them an automated message, which was really used to get me a lot of leads. But they cut that out recently. But I like Twitter. I think that it's one of those things. Not a lot of people are doing it. So.

To be honest, I would compare it a lot like Instagram. The only thing different with Instagram is just more things you can do and I think you'll see higher conversions. But people that love Twitter, love Twitter. And you get a sophisticated buyer that finds you on Twitter. In fact, I was in a film with Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas and Allison Maslow and a bunch of entrepreneurs. I don't know if you heard about it. It's called inspired by 11. And the people that found us for that film found us on Twitter.

I could see that, man. I mean, if you look at every startup, you look at a lot of big CEOs, you know, people are running legit companies are on there, they're on there.

So again, I think just put, you know, just have an ad running and forget about it. You know what I mean?

And with Twitter, I suppose, can't you. I think, I mean, you used to, but can't you target just followers of anybody? So like, I wanted to. So when this podcast goes live, if I want to go on Twitter and put this ad to this episode in front of everybody who likes Vince Reed, I could get this episode in front of everybody who's a follower of yours right now.

You can. And you can target everybody that's following you.

This is. All right. So my mind's going now.

Yeah. So I mean, I can see that as sort of a great sort of top of funnel traffic source. Get them to the site in the first place so that you're getting them on your retargeting pixels for everywhere else.

Yeah. And they have lead ads. One of the cool ads you can run on Twitter is you can run an ad where they just click the Learn more button and you automatically generate the lead. They don't even have to opt in. They just click the button.

Oh, wow.

And then you build a list and it captures the email address that they use to sign up for Twitter. So, like with the lead ad on Facebook, they click it and then it just populates the data. Then they have to click Enter with Twitter lead cards. Unless they've changed it. They just click the button and you get the lead.

And that goes right into your autoresponder. Or do you have to use it?

Yeah, it goes right into your autoresponder.

That's cool.

Is there a retargeting pixel? This is probably a newbie question. Retargeting pixel for Twitter. Yes, there is. Okay.

I'm telling you, it's the same.

The same damn thing.

And a conversion pixel, too.

And a conversion pixel, dude.

This is version pixel everything. YouTube, same thing.

Love it.

I'm telling you, all these platforms all work together, and I would highly encourage people listen to go run over to Twitter. And now it becomes like your new Facebook. But just set up an ad, like, put 10 bucks in it a day and just be there. Target, like, say, okay, who are the top 10 people that.

Their followers would be relevant to? My products and services. Target those people's followers and just let the ad goes.

Hell, yeah. I think you are the only person I've heard anytime recently talking about Twitter ads. And not like, we made a whole bunch.

That's our fault. We're not asking the right questions.

No, I know. You're totally right, and I'm happy we did because this is. Yeah, it's opening my mind because exactly what you said. Everything talks to each other. All the platforms, that's what we preach too. And that's how we make all of our money is connecting.

Well, think about it. Like, they'll click on the page. You can drive them to your website. Pixel them, have a Facebook ad. Pixel. Now when they go over to Facebook or Instagram, you can follow them. There's a. So in full transparency. That's actually how I use Twitter.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're big on Google Display Network for retargeting as well, and Google Display Network's been pretty huge. So another sort of retargeting angle, because what's really cool is you can kind of create this omnipresence, be everywhere. Once somebody sees your content once, they all of a sudden start going, holy shit, these guys are everywhere. They must have massive ad budgets. But really what's happening is they're discovering you once, and then they're seeing you on blogs through Google Display Network. They're seeing you retargeted on Twitter. They're seeing you retargeted on Facebook. You're being retargeted on Instagram and people go, man, these guys must be spending six figures a month on ads. But it's like, no, we're spending like $2 a day to get in front of you.

Exactly. I mean, it's a penny of you, right?

Yeah.

And that's the beautiful thing about it.

It's amazing, man.

I love it. So let's talk about YouTube real quick. That's kind of the last ad platform I wanted to touch on with you with YouTube. I guess let's just start with the basics. What would be like the first tip you'd give somebody who says, okay, I'm gonna experiment with YouTube ads?

So I love YouTube ads. In fact, it might be people will say, what's your favorite? I think they all work together. I kind of look at advertising like an old school stockbroker and they're like, diversify. That's kind of how I look at marketing. But I obviously have my favorite stock, and my favorite stock right now would be YouTube ads. And here's why. It's not because of what you might think. It's because everybody can't run ads. You have to have a certain number of people that are subscribed to your channel to start running specific types of ads on there. So that's an advantage in my opinion. Obviously, the in stream ads are great. I use instrument ads a little bit differently. I leverage YouTube more for the search results with display ads. So like get someone searching for what I know that they want first and then I use in stream ads to stay in front of them wherever they go.

So your in stream is like you're retargeting, basically.

Can you real quickly, can you kind of explain the different ad options inside of YouTube?

Yeah, so you can do like a typical, like display ad. So let's say you're searching for ads on any kind of product or service or not ads, but you're just searching for a video on YouTube and you search for it and you see the related videos that pop up.

On the dashboard or to the right column. Then you just click on it and you watch the video that's related to what you were searching for, just like you would if you were on Google. So what I do is I build those audiences with display and then I use in stream. And then the in stream ads convert ridiculously low, ridiculously low at that point. Now in stream ads already convert really well if you have a good message to just cold traffic. A lot of people use it that way, but I feel like they waste a lot more money for me in full Transparency. People come to me not because they want a million leads overnight, even though I could teach them that. They come to me because they want quality leads, the lowest cost possible.

So I'm very efficient with my marketing because I want bigger returns. So companies come to me because I'm like, let's make you four times what you made last month. That's how I advertise. So to me, if I target 20 million people with NStream, it's a lot of waste. Yes, I'm gonna get a lot of leads, but if I'm targeting someone who specifically was looking for what I have to offer and then I just stay in front of them with in stream, can you imagine the type of conversions I get on that?

Yeah. So just to kind of clarify real quick, what you're doing is let's say somebody searches on YouTube for how to get more leads, Right. Just as an example, they search that your video will be one of the recommended videos. It's like a sponsored video shows towards the top of the listings. If they click on that video and watch some of it, then all of a sudden they're going to start getting retargeted with in stream ads, which are the ads that play before a YouTube video starts.

Absolutely nailed it. That's exactly what we're doing just on Google with display network or retargeting on.

Facebook, same exact concept.

We're not doing YouTube.

So because the Google play that we do is run search ads, once somebody clicks over to our content from the search ad, then they start seeing our Google display network ads everywhere. So it's pretty much identical concept.

A great strategy. The only issue I have with that was that, I mean, I don't know what you're paying per click, but Sometimes the Google AdWords, they're slowly out pricing themselves. So let's even say you're $2 a click or a dollar a click. I mean with a YouTube video that could be that dollar could get you 50 views with a $0.01. And they did the same thing. They still searched. Yeah, you know what I mean?

That makes sense. And YouTube, they still have that thing where in stream ads if they don't watch for what, 30 seconds, you don't even pay for the ad.

Exactly. They don't watch the ads.

So it's a big branding thing too. I mean, that's crazy. So actually right after this call, we have another call with Billie Jean. He's gonna be on the podcast at his recording will be coming out after yours. But we're talking to Billie Jean after this. And we asked him, you know, what do you want to talk about? And he said, YouTube ads. YouTube ads are crushing it right now.

YouTube ads are the biggest thing. One of my best friends, man, we probably text every day almost.

I thought you said that last time we talked.

Tell him I said, what's up?

Definitely. But, you know, with, with, with YouTube ads, you look at, you look at what Billie Jean's managed to do, you look at what Tai Lopez has managed to do, you know, love him or hate them, Those guys ran a shit ton of YouTube ads and that built their brand.

Absolutely.

And they did it cheaply too. They probably did it for, you know.

Penny views, probably cheaper back then.

Because if, like, you know, you're still seeing Billie Jean's face, you're still seeing Tai Lopez's face, even if you don't stick around for that full 30 seconds. So most likely they're building their brand for next to nothing. They're just getting their face in front of more and more people for next to nothing.

Smart.

Absolutely. Very smart. And those guys, again, so people listening, some people, while I hear that and go, okay, I'm gonna go spend all this money to do that. You just have to know how to monetize it. Right? Right. So like, if you're getting those views and you don't know what you're doing on the back end, you could go broke. So the strategy I'm sharing, you can be not as good at monetizing and not put yourself at as much risk for sure.

And that goes with the whole quality leads. You're not going for quantity.

Right.

What the hell are you gonna do?

But we still get tons. Are we getting. And honestly. And the reason we'll get, we'll get more leads. A lot of the people you even may be talking about, only because of that, like efficiency, because the lead cost, again, if they're getting four or five dollar leads and I'm getting leads at, you know, 50 cents or a dollar, you know, it's, it's all relative.

So sure, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Now with our podcast. You're gonna see it after, after your episode goes live. You'll have some ads following you around and, you know, a bunch of other people's because we perpetually always have. We're always trying to grow this podcast and now we're finally investing quite a bit of money on different platforms. Not just the platforms we're talking about, but outbrain, different podcast type stuff. How would you recommend. And I have an idea of what you're going to say, but how to grow a podcast in your eyes?

Well, number one, it depends on who you want listening. Right. You want people that aren't. They're just aspiring entrepreneurs, or do you want high level entrepreneurs that are looking for really good content? That's step number one. So if you want that, then I would be, I would make a lot of videos and I might, I'd probably start off with YouTube and I would just make videos on like the best, like the best business podcast. Right. So when people are looking for business podcasts or the best business podcast, then you're automatically gonna pop up. That'd be step number one. And step number two would be to go to all of the top 10, the top 10 business podcasts that already exist right now that you'd love their following. And I would do the strategies that we just talked about. So I would also take small bits and clips of like audio of what you have right now, shorten them up a little bit and use those so people can kind of get a tease of what it is that you share when you're doing those secondary ads, when you find your top 10.

And then at that point, if people hit your website or if there's a way for you to run ads of people that actually listen to the entire thing, just remain in front of them with every new podcast. So that'd be like a three step thing.

That makes sense.

Targeting people that are looking for business podcasts, targeting people that listen to the top 10 business podcasts, and then staying in front of the people that actually listen to your podcast.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. Because I mean, right now we are doing step three. We're making it so anybody who's listened to past podcasts were staying in front of them with all new episodes. And we're also doing some creative targeting where, you know, we have, if we have a specific guest on the show, like we had Dennis, you on the show last week and Dennis is a Facebook target. We can target fans of Dennis. So anybody that is a Facebook target, we're going after their fans. And we're running dollar a day ads, which is actually a strategy we learned from Dennis. We're running dollar a day ads to that person's following and it just perpetually grows the.

Are you doing video view ads? Are you doing with that?

No, those are just. Those are just click ads. Click back to our show notes page for the podcast and we're paying about 13 cents per click on those ads.

Interesting. That's really cool.

Yeah, they're working out really well, video.

I mean, video is something that. Exactly what you said there is. Like, take a snippet. Maybe it's, you know, branded with.

Obviously that's the next phase. That's what we need to start doing for sure.

Or even if you came in in front and say, hey, recently we just interviewed Dennis or Billy or whoever.

Yeah.

And we had this interesting concept that we talked about here, listen to this real quick clip and just audio it in and then. And then like, so you can get yourself branded with the audio as it's a quick snippet each and every time.

That's smart. I dig that.

Super smart.

All right, you'll start seeing that now. Matt, you got one more question.

Yeah. So, well, we have a couple last questions, but these are kind of like wrap up questions. So where do you go to consistently improve your craft? Like, are there any websites, blogs, podcasts, mentors you want to give a shout out to? Anything like that where you're consistently going back to to make sure that you're constantly continuing to master the craft?

You know what, man? I was on a flight about a year ago and I looked to my left and Gary Vee was sitting next to me.

Hot damn. Hot damn, right?

And I asked Gary the same question, like, who do you go to for help? And he's like, man, I really don't go to anybody for help. Like, I answer so many questions. That's kind of how I get my own help. So, you know, I obviously have a lot of mentors. I buy every product I can. I attend events I love. Like when I speak at an event, I attend the event. Like, I'm not one of the guys often that you see just at the bar, like, speaking, and I'm gone. Like, I love learning, reading, getting better. So that's the first way I learned. I do a lot of going through different platforms, saving ads, going through funnels, and just learning that way. But really through doing.

I have a community that we have where we train entrepreneurs and I get to answer their questions. And we have sessions where I look at their ads. And for my digital agency clients, we're running traffic for a variety of different businesses. So I'm constantly in the trenches. And then there's gurus out there that we've managed their ads. I'm always able to see what's going on and get the real scope, scoop of what's happening. So, like, you know, it's just a variety of ways. I'm just in it and I tell people all the time, like, I'm on Social media more than anyone. But I'm never in my newsfeed. It's always in the ads manager.

Yep.

And there's times where I literally will see a button or something pop up and I will say to myself, how would anybody know that this even exists? Like, this is crazy. Right? And you just. I'm just. I'm just constantly in it. And I think that the lesson here is you gotta learn by doing. Like, you've listened to a lot of stuff we've talked about in this podcast, but unless you go do it, then it's just the information is useless. Knowledge, in my opinion, is not really power. Knowledge executed is where the power comes in. So you've got to go take action and make it happen.

Love it. Love it. Now you put on. Is it an annual event? How often do you do your events?

We do an annual event. It's called Internet Traffic Live. We actually were. Our last event. Was our last event, but yeah. And that was our fourth one. And it was amazing. I mean, we had, like, a lot of people, like you said, Billy spoke, Roland Frazier, Chris record. Like, I mean, it was. It was. It was an amazing event. And, you know, it's probably. It was like 300 people there. It was awesome. And, you know, we had every intention to not do another event because we've had some really cool business things that have popped up. Like we do marketing for a mortgage bank now and just some awesome opportunities that we were like, we need to focus in on these things. Right. But we've had so many people say, vince, you've got to keep doing your event. So I don't think we're going to do one next year. We are going to probably not do it, but I have reopened up the door to do another one because of the feedback that we've got from it.

Nice. Well, if you ever do another one, keep us in the loop because we'd love to be attendees at the very least.

I definitely will. I appreciate that.

Well, hey, so where should people go? Check you out. I know we got the book, Internet traffic and leads.

Yeah, definitely check out the book. Or just follow me on social. VinceRead live on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and then obviously, Vince, read on YouTube. Subscribe and I'm sure I'll retarget you enough where at some point you'll probably get on my list.

And you should. And you should for sure. All right, Matt, anything?

No, I think we covered it all. One last question. We do typically ask people, do you have any book recommendations?

Wow. Oh, man. There's so many. My favorite book is a book called the Richest man who Ever Lived by Stephen K. Scott. It's a biblical book based on the book of Solomon. But it's what changed my life and my mindset, I think, from a. And this is for. Because we're gonna keep it on ads. And if it's for advertising, my favorite book. It's not my favorite book in the world, but if you're a marketer, I think the book I like is 80 20. Perry Marshall. 80% of your sales come from 20% of your buyers. And the one thing by Gruber. Is that his name? I can't think of his name.

The one thing. Is that the.

I'm looking for it on the bookshelf right now.

He's the real estate guy, right?

Drawing a blank. McKellar. No, not McKellar.

Keller. What was his name?

Gary Keller.

Gary Keller, yeah. How did Gruber come out? Gary Keller.

McKellery is a brewing company in San Diego. That's why McKellar stuck out.

Yeah. So, yeah, Gary Keller. That book. The one thing. Because I think people shift too fast and they don't stay focused. I truly believe you are what you focus on. So those two books, from a marketing perspective and keeping you, like, every time we launch new companies, create new ideas, it's always marketing, traffic related. And we stay true to the skill set that we have. And I think that a lot of entrepreneurs, they pivot to all these new things, and it's not always that easy.

I think that's the epitome of, like, that's the core lesson I got from reading your book. Definitely. The one thing's amazing. Yeah. Gotta go deep, man. Don't go wide. Don't go deep, you know, and master that stuff.

Love it.

Love it. Well, everybody who's listening, check out Internet traffic and leads. Go follow Vince on all the social medias. Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube. Go follow him everywhere you can find them, and then he'll follow you.

Yeah. All right, man.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Vince.

Appreciate it. Thank you, guys.

All right, man. See you. All right. Thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook and go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training, and a whole bunch of other cool, free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com. so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.