All Selling Aside: How to Attract and Convert More High-End Clients Even If You Hate Selling with Joe Polish, Dean Jackson and Alex Mandossian - I Love Marketing #322

What are the three most important things you need in order to build strong client relationships? Would you like a simple step by step system for converting 4x to 6x more sales. Join Joe and Dean for a conversation with Alex Mendozian that covers these topics and more. Since 1993, Alex has generated almost 400 million in sales and profits for his marketing students, clients and strategic alliance partners in five continents. His colleagues acknowledge him as the Warren Buffett of the Internet because of his unique ability to to make money for his partners, clients and students. If you would like access to the complete presentation, the show notes, the links, and the special resources for this episode, please visit ilovemarketing.com 3 2, 2. That's ilovemarketing.com 322.

I'm Dean Jackson, he's Joe Polish, and this is the I Love Marketing podc. Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

And welcome to I Love Marketing.

I do love some marketing.

We've got a very special guest with us. Yeah, well, so does Alex Mendozian, who's our.

I was going to say this is one of our. Yeah, he's a verified, bona fide certified marketing lover from way back. An OG marketing lover. Yeah.

And I think, Alex, what part of the country are you in right now?

I'm in the Bay Area, just north of the Golden Gate Bridge. I think I fell in love with marketing around the same time you guys did. So I think so. We looked at the same things at the same time. We go way back. Yeah.

We've known each other for over 20 years. And so here's one thing I have to mention too, though, and this is where we got to give Alex, like a lot of credit. I started my very first podcast with Alex in 2005 and we were doing it for seminars and for the cleaning industry. And you could probably find those episodes way back when. And I think that's when it was right, Alex. Around 2005.

Yeah.

I don't even know if they called it podcasting back then, but it was 2005.

No, it was podcasting. It definitely is podcasting.

Right.

When. Because that was when. You know the guy from little known Fact, that guy from MTV is the one that coined that phrase. Podcast could go with the ipod, you know, because you could download it onto your ipod. And that was a. So that's kind of a little known fact.

I don't remember the guy's name now.

I was gonna say he did. The man.

He did.

He worked with Dr. Drew. Yeah. Who did the forward to my new addiction book that's coming out in June of this year, the Miracle Morning Addiction.

Recovery, which is a. Yeah, it's so funny.

Adam Carell.

Yeah, Adam Carell.

There you go.

That was his name. So, Alex, for people that don't know who you are, what you do, let's kind of at least give some background of who we're talking to. I could talk a lot about you because there's all kinds of amazing things, but we'll get into all of that. But how should people know of you? What should they know before we launch into this?

Well, after 25 years, my mother still doesn't know what I do. But I started in the 1990s, which is BG, before Google. And I transferred from the infomercial and spot tv, qvc, hsn, you know, direct response television, electronic marketing business. I went from there to Internet marketing in the mid-90s because it was less expensive. I could sit on a website for like an hour and that would cost me 60, $70,000 for an infomercial. Cost more now, you know, to view it. And on. On the Internet, it was more interactive. We could get feedback instantly, which is so important with marketing. And so, you know, I got hooked with digital marketing before Google was even around. And search engines back then, Dean, you may remember Northern Lights and there were other people don't even know. Yahoo was a big deal.

I remember how excited I was about.

Goto.

The very first pay per click search engine and. Yeah, the precursor to all these other.

Yeah. And so going into the 21st century, I moved to the San Francisco Bay area. My son Gabriel was born and then my daughter two years later. And the bubble burst here in the. In the big.com world. So in 2001, I decided to go in from consulting. I started from consulting a company called One Shopping Cart, which some people may know of and help the guy Bell. Oh, do you? Yeah, well, Rob Bell, who was the CEO, I helped him build it and sell it. And I don't have a one Shopping cart anymore. We went to Infusion, but that was like the infusion of its day. That was the entreport of its day. But then in 2001 I started with info marketing and I developed a course, marketing with Postcards, which was bought by a lot of digital marketers who are well known today, Ryan Dice being one of the most notable. And I got out there selling a book in the three ring binder, of course, with a CD2001, by the way, full color. Yeah.

Glossy paper.

Well, the controversial thing was it was $250. And Corey Rudolph, rest in Peace, and others of his day were selling $20 ebooks. So I always went towards the high end because I knew that it was just as easy or hard to sell, but you'd get 10 times more profit and a higher value client or student. And so that morphed into a bunch of secrets courses, traffic conversion secrets. Joe and I did Stick Strategy Secrets, which we're going to bring up the 2.0 version this year, which will be next year. It was killer, by the way. Yeah, yeah, it was killer then. Still is.

That's what I was just going to say is all of those things are absolutely still.

Well, yeah.

I mean, with the program that like Stick Strategy Secrets is an example. That program has made so many very well known, successful, you know, marketers, consultants, thought leaders of today, millions. I mean, a lot of people can trace back, you know, from Eben Pagan in the early days to, I mean, you name it. I mean, Brendan Burchard, you know, all kinds. I mean, even the stuff that. Wait, you would see Russell, Russell Brunson doing with. Hey, quit interrupting here for a moment, Dean. So all these. See how excited he is, Alex? This is how he gets. He just gets really excited. He can't finish his sentence. He's very, very hurtful like that. No, but so, yeah, like, you know, Russell, all these free recorded messages, all these stickers, all these drives to websites, I mean, that's all stuff that me and Alex were teaching in Stick Strategy Secrets, like back in 2003. And a lot of people don't even realize the origins of so much of that stuff, which Alex was a total pioneer with. So many of the things with, I mean, one of the best in the world at teleseminars. I mean, you name it, but no, keep going, keep going, Alex. And let's make sure. Let's just make sure. Dean doesn't want to.

You want me to feel. You want me to feel hurt being.

Smarter than I am. So anytime he wants to interrupt. But tell us some of our secret.

Those warning labels, the warning labels on any digital pack, I mean, just that one alone of having that on before you open this call and listen to this free recorded message is just what a way to shape the unboxing, you know?

Yeah. Don't break open the box until you do this. And they forgot about purchasing it. They're not in that visceral emotional state. Right. This is going back to stick strategies. And then they hear your voice. So you get them back into state before they Open the box so their heart is in a different place when they're seeing what's inside. And that's the key, framing it. Because the frame is everything, which is really the topic for today. And off selling aside is the frame determines how well you sell, enroll, or influence, you know, someone else. But because I was, you know, I'm a dad, and back then my kids were young, I didn't want to travel a lot, which prevented me from going to a lot of masterminds and I think ultimately hurt me because I'm coming back now because I'm. My kids are older and they've forgotten my name, except when they want money. Right. And so when we do teleseminars, I didn't have to leave the home. And so I taught that course for many years. And a lot of notable marketers, Vishen Lakhani, Russell Brunson, Telman Knutson, a lot of people went through that course. Evan Pagan, and they're all secrets courses. John Reese gave me the domain. He had actually paid 600 bucks for it. And I ended up making 14 million bucks from it over the years until we retired it. And Jeff and John Walker did our final launch. And then they went on to do their own, the product launch formula, which has been a huge success. But every course I've done has been within the secrets category. Traffic conversion secrets, web communication secrets. And so fast forward into this year, 2018, and I have conversion secrets. And I never thought I'd be doing this, but conversion secrets is probably the second most important thing to traffic. And the traffic people say, no, conversion is the most important thing. So the good converters say, no, it's traffic. Traffic people say, no, it's conversion. And really, it's a matter of a conversation, either done digitally, auditorially, visually, or physically, face to face. And all selling aside, end up generating a sale and hopefully having a funnel where people ascend. And the only challenge I have with a funnel, nothing against Russell, I've always told him this is the thing that a marketing funnel does not have, is that a real funnel does, which has sand or water going through it, is the only way a funnel works is with gravity. So what's the gravity for a marketing funnel to pull that candidate? All the group to become evangelically married to your products and services for life. And I think that has to do with the conversation and the relationship capital that lubricates that process just brings them through. And that's, I think, one thing that's not talked about. So I launched a podcast called all selling site for people who hate to sell, who don't have any high end clients and don't make six figures. It's good for others. But I focused on them because I think they're the forgotten coach or consultant or service professional where, you know, they fear rejection. That's not comfortable for them. Maybe they feel like it's manipulative. And I'm addressing that part of the population which I've been ignoring and I'm a little, I feel a little guilty about it. And now I'm getting to, you know, scratch that itch. So that's my 302nd 1995-2018 evolution.

So wait, so just.

So that's good. Thank you. So why did you call it all selling aside? I mean, go deeper into that name?

Well, I was at a Mastermind in, in Montreal. A friend of mine was putting on Danny Ayni and there was another guy in the room who I just met, he's co founder of Baby Bathwater Institute, Michael Lovich. And I was talking about this idea a couple years ago, like I wrote the business podcasting Bible with Paul Culligan and here I am. I don't have a real podcast. I have a weekly show, you know, Facebook Live and I've done through webinars and tele seminars, but I didn't have a podcast, so said I gotta, I gotta, you know, sew the holes in my kids shoes. I'm the cobbler, right? And I'm not eating my own cooking. So I said, here's the idea. And he said, why don't you call it all selling aside? I said, that's pretty good. So I went, I registered it, it was available. And so the podcast is devoted to hard working coaches and consultants, service professionals who hate to sell. And so the premise is storytelling is the new selling. And instead of closing, do the seating and then they'll close themselves. Jeffrey Gittermer says, you know, people hate to be sold, but they love to buy. So that's the premise for people who are afraid to sell. And I figured there's so many of them, maybe I'll get an audience. Maybe not on this show, but other shows. There are a lot of people who hate to sell.

Yeah, well I say, I mean we talk about marketing as really the setup for that. You know, that brings people into a point where, you know, the selling is easy and often unnecessary. You know, where if you can take a marketing approach, it's really, it's interesting because selling, you know, when you look at the, the things that go into it. I have run into that same situation where people are selling a verse, right. And I was look at it as taking and engineering the interaction with one person. What would it take to have a dialogue, an actual conversational journey with one person from they don't know you, they, you know, all the way through to them becoming a client. And so, you know, it's really, I look at it that people talk about know you, like you, trust you but they always read that as one statement, know you, like you, trust you.

Right.

All blended. And I think that where we really have the opportunity is if we approach them individually like know you full stop. Like you full stop, trust you full stop. You know that you've got each one of those is a win to take it from somebody who doesn't know you to now they know you. That's, that's a progression, you know. And now that they know you, do they like you? And I think a lot of that goes with are, is what you're saying resonating, Are you, are you getting and joining in on the conversation that's going on in their mind and are you through those conversations evidencing that this is trusty, right. That are other. What are other people saying about this? What other results are people getting? And I think you can totally do all of those things without a, you know, without feeling like you're just trying to get people to buy right now. That's really the biggest.

That's where selling.

Yeah, that's where selling becomes distasteful.

If you or Joe, if you Dean or Joe said, Alex, I'm going to ask you something that I just need you to say yes first to get it out of the way and then I'll make my request. I want both of you to know that we call that the uncompromised yes in my tribe. Like you can, the person knows you so well, you have such relationship capital. Like I can do that. I haven't thought about both of you but I can do that with over 85 people and well known people, Ivan Meisner, Jack Canfield, you know, like big names, John Gray, etc. And if they know you well enough, if they like you well enough, if they trust you well enough, if. And then there's another component. They need to understand you, they need to believe you too because you can tell the truth but still not be believable. But if both of you asked me, I need, I need you to say yes and let's get that out of the way. I would say yes because you And I, Dean and Joe, you and I have enough relationship capital where why would you risk losing any of that and asking me something that you know is ideal for me and risk the fact that it may not be a good, you know, deal for me. So people go through that process which is the hardest. The first sale is the hardest. Once people go through that, unless you do something egregiously violating the person's trust, I mean, just doing something stupid, you're always going to maintain that level. Kind of like a water pump, you know, takes 100 pumps to get it from the, from the basin and the water comes up all the way, you know, old school, like on a farm, but after a while, you know, you don't have to pump a bunch and the water's coming out because you've created this vacuum. And I think relationship capital, which is part of the topic today, is so important. So it becomes faster with existing. No, like, no, period, like period trust, period. Candidates that have gone through and the second enrollment or sale is easier for that reason. Where I focus on is going cold to hot, actually going from ice to steam. Right? Ice, a block of ice. Then, you know, cold, then warm, then hot, then steam. That's, I mean, it's changing, you know, the physical consistency of water. And that's how a sail is. I don't think there are three stages, you know, cold, warm, hot. I think there's ice to steam. So that's what I focus on with these folks. So I deal with a very, you know, like a genius network at the very high level. And then I deal at the very beginner level. And there are a lot more of the beginners, and the challenge is they've never been taught and they think, wow, when this person gets a sale, that reputation evolves and then it becomes easier and easier and easier, whereas just starting out is the hardest part. So what we do is we make sure that they're pre qualifying 80% of the time and promoting 20% of the time. So the offer isn't even made, assuming they know the offer, but they don't make the offer until they're hyper, hyper pre qualified. And that's where I think most people get into trouble. Joe, I'll ask you. It's like when you jump straight to the solution, when you haven't really defined the problem or even found it yet in an interaction or transaction. That's when you're offending someone because they don't feel understood and you're leaping before you're looking. Whereas if you keep pre qualifying until they say, just tell me what you have to sell. And then at that point, they're in the buying mode. What are your thoughts about that, Joe?

Well, it kind of goes back to a couple of. I mean, you can always use analogies or metaphors. People support what they help to create that one. And if you want to sell what John Smith buys, you got to see through John Smith's eyes, or Judy's eyes, whatever you want to say it. But the thing is, the analogy I always like using is going back to the reputation of the pushy car salesman, where you go onto the lot and they immediately launch into like you're just a prey that they need to sell something to. And they haven't even identified what you're even looking for. Just trying to pressure you. And so people love to be sold, they hate to be pressured. And so in those sort of situations, it's really a timing thing. I mean, a lot of times just, if you just ease people into it, it's, you know, if they, if you let them plan the fight, they don't fight the plan. That's usually used for management of employees and team members and stuff. But it also works that way with, you know, customers, clients, patients, prospects, where it becomes their idea if you engage in a ongoing dialogue with someone. And a lot of times, people just don't realize these additional steps. I'll tell you this, though, I mean, I think it has to also come down to initially just understanding the mindset of the person that you're trying to sell and offering to. And not always does it need to be ethical. Because there's a lot of people that understand the psychology that don't really give a shit about the people that they're selling stuff to. However, actually caring about your clients in the same way that you would care about a friend, someone that's a real important human to you. You're not trying to push things onto them in a way. You know, you can't force a plant or a tree to grow quicker than it can actually grow. I mean, and that's what happens is people try to force a sale before they've actually prepared and even made sure it's the right thing.

So go ahead. Sorry.

Preach. Yeah, preach. Now, I was going to say, you know, part of the thing when I look at the conversion process, you've hit it on the head that they're trying to rush it.

Right?

Like, I look at it that in, in when somebody shows up, you know, they've. They've opted in for something, it's the they've never liked you more than that moment in your relationship. Right. It's the peak experience so far. Now, what you're really looking for on there are what I call five star prospects. Right? You're looking for people who are willing to engage in a dialogue, who are friendly and cooperative, who know what they want, who know when they want it and would like us to help them. Those are the five things that have to be true in order for us to forge a relationship with somebody. But what most people do is they start that process from the bottom up. They start with, here's what I got for you and you should buy it. Right now we're trying to impose our timeline on somebody rather than discovering whether they are willing to engage in a dialogue and that they know what they want before you make the prescription. And I think that any kind of resistance that we get to selling or is often just, you know, premature prescription.

Without really knowing or understanding.

Yeah, without. Without diagnosing. And so the reason that my. The email dialogues work so well in converting leads at a high level is because there's no. It's not about trying to sell somebody something. It's not making an offer right out of the gate. It's because I know that they have to be all five of those, right? They have to be willing to engage. They have to be friendly and cooperative. They have to know what they want, know when they want it, and. And want us to help them. So why not just start with the first one, right? Let's just engage in a dialogue and.

When somebody opts in, send them an.

Email that says, hey, Alex, thanks for downloading the Adult Acne Cure. How often do you get breakouts?

Well, this is what's interesting that you bring this up because my expertise is now, I didn't think I'd consult anymore, but it's just so much fun. It's training sales teams who are not salespeople. They have to be coaches because sales people are not good at this. They become too impatient. So I only go to coaching organizations to do this and coaches in my 20 years don't like to sell. They're really good at coaching, but they don't like to get people into their business, which is the business. So I've actually applied and this is the first time I'm mentioning it. It's the first time on this show I've applied what I learned with Joe with stick strategies and robotic marketing and making things else. And what I've learned from you, Dean, in having that dialogue with the nine Word email. But prior to that we go back many years, many other aspects of, you know what I've learned. And the concept is for a high end client, a $10,000 client, let's just say. But that would be high end. Let's get you a new coach. This works for 100,000, 200,000. And it's proven what we do is before there's any H2H, any human to human interaction, which is the only type of business we're in. Ryan Dice reminded me that it's not B2B or B2C. It's H2H. It's a dialogue, not a corporation. We're talking to a human. So the way this begins is first you have the offer, so you got to know what you have, right. And the offer is whatever it is. And we don't have time to go into offer creation, but it's got to be something that's irresistible and hopefully when they're done with it and they've solved that problem, there's another one. And when they've solved that problem, there's another one. So there's some sort of an ascension. So I look at three offers going into the future. Lisa Sakovich taught me that, you know, psp, problem solution, problem solution, problem solution. And sometimes it takes three years. So let's say you have that. Well, the starting point is never human. It's an email, it's a mobile text. It's some kind of communication going up where they have a gift of some kind which is a PDF and a video explanation of the gift which is seeding the offer, which is all the way down on the horizon. A week, two weeks, sometimes a month later. But that gift doesn't even require an opt in Dean for Joe because they're already on your list, right? So the assumptions, they're on your list. There's no opt in. You don't need a sub list for this. And it's a PDF and there's an infographic many times. And then you're describing it. For me, it's what happens in the discovery session, right. So I have like a 20 minute explanation, 13 questions, boom. And then a few days later, you know, we're, we're communicating and dialoguing is if would you be interested? I've used a nine word email for this, by the way. Competition. We get them any way they can to come to an intake page. An intake is like an application, but it's more like a diagnosis. And this is all robotic. No, human to human, except through the Internet, through mobile texting, etc. Sometimes through our help desk. So through our online support they come to that intake page. There's a video of me explaining what's down below. And this has been tested with lots of digital marketers, many of whom are ingenious network and then they complete the intake. Now obviously not everyone completes the intake, but those who don't, we can remarket to them which is more dialogue, right? So they complete the intake, the next step after that. So gift intake, next step is there's a thank you page and the thank you page. Here's the key. Remember high end offer we're making. The thank you page is another video, very brief of me saying, look, I don't know if you qualify or don't. We're processing your intake, we're going to diagnose it. But if you'd like to participate in a discovery session, it's not a strategy session, discovery session just you got to put in a refundable deposit. So the deposit ranges from 100 to 500 bucks. I'd like 150. 150 bucks, sweet spot. So just to participate in the discovery session with one of our coaches, they put down 150 bucks. Many times we authorize the credit card, we don't even charge it. But if they don't show up, we charge them. Right. Now that's key because once I learned that people showed up and those people converted four to six times better than the no cost showing up at sub recession people, right? And then after they submitted their 150, we use Infusionsoft, then they schedule. So they schedule with the coach. And then now there's human interaction intervention after about four to five steps of pre qualification where they've gone through a sequence of hoops, that's marketing. That marketing is like a force field. It's a shield preventing that human to avoid anticipating rejection, which they're deathly afraid of because they have an intake, the intake is strategically worded. And now they have all this like a doctor, all this, you know, intelligence that they can pull from. And then we have a process that we take them through and through that discovery session. Many times, you know, whether it's funds, they don't have them or they're not qualified, they don't have an existing business, they're sometimes disqualified throughout, but it's never a rejection. And then we offer them something that they could either do for free or pay for at a much lower level. But if they, if they actually pass and they've chosen the offer and they know that, you know they can afford it through financing or single pay. Well, they just had a call with the setter volleyball right now the next call is going to be with the with not the closer. There's a lot of sales teams talk about, I call it the spiker. I like so relies on the setter that the setters job is to make a recommendation. And this is all on video, not phone. People don't multitask on video, like on zoom let's say. And so now the setter shows up and actually schedules the next session with the spiker who really that's the salesperson. Sometimes it's me, sometimes it's someone I've taught and for me it's 400k clients though, so it's significant. So now they've gone through about 45 minutes of discovery which is purely clarifying that they're qualified. So my job as the spiker is to verify if the setter was clear who I'm going to pay a little bit of that sale. If we get it, they're salaried usually and then if everything matches the intake because we're going to be with this person for a while. So then those guys show up, they say, hey Alex, this is John. John is this, this, this and this. Here's the SWOT analysis. This is what they want to do, this is what they've chosen and I recommend them. Did I miss anything, John? John says yes, as a matter of fact you did. You know, you missed this, this and this. Five minutes after that introduction where the center is there and the candidate, we don't call them prospects or leads because that's not human. The candidate is right there in front of me. The first question I asked was okay, so John, you went through this process, you know you're not the only candidate applying for this. Why do you think you're a good fit? The first question and so the spiker call and I've done this for four years, it's generated eight figures. What happens is there's very little rejection because the candidate disqualifies themselves which is why it's all selling aside. The marketing is the gravity that's pulling through the sale. But there's not one transaction, there's not one close, there's probably two to 300 mini trial closes along the way where we're tapping the rock and at the very end then we start and then if they say yes and we say yes, we indoctrinate them. And on that, you know, 150th tap of the rock. You know that metaphor, it splits and we have a new sale. So that's the high end process that, you know, we devised. And you know, it's, it's templatized, there's a funnel for it. I can't wait to show you guys because, you know, it works after like three or four years, it's not a fluke anymore. But the biggest takeaway is there's no rejection. I mean, there is some like, let's say they lied, but there's very little. And the, it's not the rejection that the person feels who's going to do the selling, it's the anticipating of the rejection and that really awkward moment from when they go from teaching or fact finding to sales. But if you can, if you can take the seam out of that process through robotics and dialogue, like I learned from both of you, then we're having a conversation at the very end where I have my ally who I've trained, the setter, and I'm just kind of dinking them over the cliff and they're not going into the ocean. They're going into like a padded, a padded bed. It's really comfortable for whatever next journey they're going to take. Now this works in almost any industry but manufacturing that, you know, I've tested and I've been testing and testing and testing it and I didn't come up with the podcast until I knew, hey, I'm confident, take shots at this, this works, right? And so now I find myself training other organizations, many of whom, you know, when I'm teaching their teams to do it, so that, you know, they can, if, let's say the front end of a launch didn't work in two weeks, they didn't get the numbers they wanted. Well, this is the back end because they have all those candidates. Why not continue the dialogue, you know, after they exhale a bit and turn them into a high end client. So that's the essence of all selling aside, I like to focus on high end because, you know, low end I think is just as difficult. But you don't make as much money, Joe, for anyone who knows you were the first, nobody, nobody came before you. 25k, bam. And that's been going on ever since.

You raised the bar, Joe.

Well, you know, other than hanging out with Dean all these years, I think I've done a lot of things to raise the bar. Totally kidding, Dean.

Here's the thing with Joe, though. I mean, this goes back 20 years and now I'm doing enrollments at the. What do you call it at the Genius Network big event, right? Like almost 20 years ago. No, let's say 12 years ago. I've known Joe for 20. He asked me to pay 25k to meet with guys and gals who I knew back then. It didn't occur to me that that was the smartest 25k I could have paid. And I said no to him, and I said no year after year. And now I have this confessional sales presentation which does very well, actually, to enroll new people saying, don't make that mistake. It's not about roi, it's about the cost of inaction. It's about coi. If you're not in that room with other people that Joe's put together, then it doesn't matter if you know them or not. See that, that was like. That was a loss of 10 years. I actually apologized to Joe two years ago about that. I said, do you forgive me for that? I think he gave up after two years, but that was the dumbest mistake I made of not joining. And now it's like, jesus can't get out. I mean, that would be crazy. So just in. Once you win, you can't get out, right?

Yeah.

The hotel, it's like Hotel California. There's, you know. Well, first, thanks. That was a great description. Secondly, you know, I. People watch cooking shows all the time and they can just be glopped in front of the screen. I was saying this to my trainer yesterday. We were working out in his gym, and he has, you know, a couple flat screen TVs in front of the exercise bikes, and, you know, the volume was on mute, but there was like a cooking show going on. And I said to him, I go, you know, people, they just, like, people just love porn. And I said, you know, it's food porn or it's financial porn, or it's totally true. Yeah. And I go, you know, people just watch these things and in whatever interesting category somebody's into, they're just looking for this thing. And I would sit and think that if there's any recipe, any cooking show that anyone in business, if you really wanted to build and grow, it would be like listening to our podcast, listening to Alex's new podcast, you know, learning every sort of recipe. Because you said a very interesting thing, I think you said, you know, after two years, I finally got it down. I mean, you just kind of said that real quickly as you were describing what you were just describing. But, like, people don't realize that this stuff takes years for us to Learn and test and do things and then say, here's the strategy, here's the conversion technique, here's the best customer acquisition methodology, here's the best conversion strategy we've discovered. That's what we have talked about continuously on. I love marketing as it relates to marketing and I know that's exactly what you're going to be talking about all the time on all selling aside is you got these success recipes and you're a master chef and you've been doing this stuff for 20 years, learned how to do this and you're going to break it down and you're describing, you're going to show people. And that's kind of what we do, which is an incredible service. And the interesting thing too is the stuff that we give away for free, like what we've even talked about here. And there's a, there's a good side and a bad side to this. The good side is like, it's free and everyone listening to it like has total access to it. The bad side is to it, as we all know. You know, if you don't pay, you don't pay attention and sometimes people have a different sort of listening. You know what I Learned about charging $25,000 for is people. You know, I would do 25k, I would do Genius Network. We even have a hundred thousand dollar group, Genius X. I would do that stuff even if I didn't get paid for it. I mean, I literally love it. And frankly I've, you know, I've got different ways that I make money. That's one great way that I make money. However, if I gave it away for free though, it wouldn't work because the dynamic of it would completely change and all that sort of stuff. But the beauty of all of this, even the way that Dean had broken down all of the stages and steps and what we have on. I love marketing with the eight profit activators. These are necessary ingredients to make the business work. The way that I describe it, if you're going to, you know, I'm pretty much grain free right now. I'm at that phase of my life where I'm not eating any grains. I had a pizza though when I went to New York. When was that? Three weeks ago. Oh my God.

What happened?

It was so delicious. But you know, of course the next day because do you feel bad the next day it's like a grain hangover. It's ridiculous. But basically you can have all the ingredients to, to bake bread or make pizza or whatever. But if you don't have yeast, you know, the bread's not going to rise. And marketing and selling is what is needed to make the bread rise. You could have everything else. You could have products, you could have services, you could have concern and care. You can actually really be helpful to people. But if you don't have, if you don't have that necessary ingredient, the most important, you know, there's very few people that go out of business. It does happen, but there's very few people that go out of business because they're selling too much, too many sales. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are times where people have made so many sales that the, the delivery ends up getting so screwed up and the customer service gets so screwed up, you know, which is more of a management, you know, issue than anything. There are those sort of situations, but it's so rare. I mean, you know, I mean, you, you rarely see, you know, going out of business sale because they're not selling enough. Right. That's, that's their, that's their final strategy. Going out of business sale.

The point is we're selling something.

Yeah.

The point is all of this is a process. Alex, what I'd like to do, because you touched on why ROI selling doesn't work, go into that a little bit deeper and then I want to ask you about some areas that you're incredibly skilled at, such as repurposing and all that sort of stuff. So talk about why ROI selling doesn't work.

Well, ROI stands for return on investment. And at the risk of offending any sales trainer, I'm just going to say this is my belief because I've seen that I can't train non salespeople, people who aren't good at the, the skills of persuasion or influence. I can't, I've never been able to teach them in over 20 years how to sell via ROI if they're not good at that skill set. Now, if they're good at their skill set, you can teach through ROI, which is, hey, you give me 100k and this is going to be worth 200k. You give me 25k, this is going to be worth 250k, which is the genius network promise. Because if you have the track record, if you have the relationship capital, if you have the case studies, the testimonials, the endorsements, well, those are all ways to help put ROI to tip the scales in your favor. But the challenge with ROI, when you're starting out or you don't have a reputation, is that it's not provable it's non guaranteeable. I can't, I can't guarantee you're going to get an roi. What I can say is, all right, Dean, I'm going to give you the electricity, but you got to flip the frickin switch. And I know a lot of people who don't flip the switch and blame me for their lack of roi, so I, I turned that on his head after. Lots of frustration. And about a decade ago, I started playing with something. You know, I'm big on words and acronyms, so I wanted an oi and I thought, what could it be? Oi, how about coi? So if ROI is about point B, right, you give me, I'm gonna put you 100k in the hole, but I'm gonna show you how to fill the hole up and have 100k more. Right. If that's point B, that's where you want to be, let's say 12 months from now. Okay, well then that's something I'm moving towards. But what about cost of inaction? Even the godmother of all of them, Cost of indecision. Right. What's the cost of not taking action? Whereas ROI focuses on the investment coming back, COI focuses on just making a change. So in our presentations, in our dialogues, the whole focus is establishing. Okay, what do you want as an ROI? They say 10,000amonth. Great. Where are you at right now? 5,000amonth. Good. So the cost of inaction by not making the change where you want to be. They didn't tell me. I didn't tell them 10K. They told me. Right, so this is like jujitsu, this is like judo. Right? So marketing Judo, verbal. So, so where you want to be? 10,000. Where you are now, 5,000. Then is it fair for me to assume the cost of not taking action to be where you want to be is about 5,000amonth? They go, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm not losing 5k a month. I said, wait a minute, wait a minute. I didn't say you're losing 10,000. 5,000amonth. Because, you know, they think we're trying to trick them sometimes. Because you're not making the change, your cost of not taking the action. Well, what action shall I take? They say, I go, I have no idea. We just started this thing. But I just want to establish that we're defining reality because you can never underestimate the power of denial. And so they go, yeah, $5,000. I need to make that shift. Great. Well, why do you think you're not getting that. And then all of a sudden you ferret all these, you know, reasons that they have. It could be unsupported beliefs or they could be, you know, real. And what happens if it continues six months from now? You're still at 5K. What other roadblocks are getting in the way? They could say divorce, they could say I moved, they can say I had a split with my partner, whatever. But you're discovering stuff. I haven't even made the offer, right. And the whole thing with COI is focused on making change. It's not on selling you my offer. So then as what? This is a discovery session. You know, this is part of, you know, the gift that I give people when I'm teaching them this method, the COI method. And really it's a cost of indecision, you know, and so when you finally get them to the point where they're ready to hear the offer now, they're hyper, hyper pre qualified. And remember, they've given the deposit, they've scheduled, they've shown up, they've done the intake. There's all that other stuff before. It's all dialogue, Dean. But when they finally get to the point where this is the point where everyone sucks, most people do, where they're shifting from the seating part of the sale to the actual selling, right? They make that switch. I see it on stage, I see people get nervous. I see it in their conversation. There's like, they're, there's like this huge seam between, you know, what was a conversation and now it's going to go into what they think is to close. And so we don't do that because when we teach the coach to do it, they feel uncomfortable. They have this like nervous sensation. And then that energy doesn't transfer well, you know, because it's about transferring confidence, that sales, right? And so once we've established there is hope, like there is a point B, now we're going to talk about how to get there. So we say, look, on a scale of, you know, 0 to 10, how inspired and motivated are you to make a change? And they go, I don't know, nine? And then we'll say, why didn't you rate it lower? Something that Dan Pink taught me. And they go, what do you mean lower? Why don't you rate it lower? And they defend that. Their score, what would make it a 10? They tell me they're 10. Great. Now we're at a 10. They're willing to make a change. Listen to this. Here's the pivot. Question. Anyone can do it. Is it okay if I share with you what making a change looks like with us? That's like, can I pitch you now? Diving? Yeah. It's just elegant. So that in ROI that doesn't exist with ROI is, here's what we got. 20,000 other people have done it, or 10 people have done it, or, you know, 15,000 people have done it and you can do it too. That is not convincing. That is not influential unless you have a very strong persuader on the other end delivering that and has a lot of relationship capital. But someone who doesn't have that doesn't have the benefit of years of experience or case studies. If you seduce, like breadcrumb navigation, right. If you just. If you pull them in through the cost of inaction dialogue, it's not only more fun, but there's very little rejection. And it's actually coaching. We're having them sell through a storytelling dialogue process which they're. Which they enjoy doing. They just don't enjoy selling because they look at it differently. We're just making the selling part identical to the coaching part. And the reason I say coaching is, you know, coaching is pretty catch all term. It could be consulting or any kind of service business. It works in financial services, etc. Now, I don't have the benefit of showing you graphics and stuff like that, but does that give enough mental picture of what COI looks like?

Yeah, it's really interesting because that's been kind of a secret copywriting weapon of mine for a lot of years. Is that cost of inaction. Not using those words.

But.

But that sentiment, you know, if you go all the way back to the sales letter for stopyourdivorce.com which has been selling every single day since 1998, one of the things that the PS of that does is illustrate, I think, Alex, exactly what you're saying.

I remember it. Yeah.

P.S.

How many of the 44 strategies in stop youp Divorce will work for you? I don't know. What I can tell you is over and we have to update this now. But what I can tell you is over 8,000 people just like you have read Stop your divorce since 1998. And I get phone calls every day from people praising the book and telling me how their lives have changed. Their spouses are back and loving and they still can't believe it. So let's say you didn't buy this book. Where will that leave you? Will you get your mate back using your current strategy? Probably not. Will you be kicking yourself for the rest of your life if you didn't try everything possible to save your relationship?

Absolutely.

I can't make the decision for you. It's 100% up to you. I can help you, but you've got to take the first step if you get stuck or need private counseling. I've included my phone number and contact information in the book so you don't have to go through this alone. But that psychological paints the picture and allows them to experience the continuation of the past that they're already on.

The reason they're in this book is.

Because they really want the outcome. But everybody is always resistant to change, and so you have to. It's brilliant to counter it with the continuation of the current path you're on.

They know they've already calibrated roi. I mean, they know what the extra money is or the extra time time is. But one thing like Joe and I have talked about is they don't calibrate or dimensionalize or they don't put an actual measurement on what they're losing.

Yeah.

And it doesn't just need to be money. I mean, I have a couples therapist who says, on a scale of 0 to 10, where do you want to be 12 months from now? And they say 10. Great. Where are you now? Five. Okay, so is it okay for me to show you how to at least get to a seven or eight in the next few months so that you're on your path to a 10? Would be willing to explore that. So you're kind of. You're actually putting a value on the loss. It's not just the loss and the pain point, which a lot of it.

Allows you to put a quantitative measure.

On a qualitative thing.

That's what using scorecards in a lot of ways is like that.

Like, we have.

I have a profit activator scorecard that people can fill out that has statements for each of the profit activators that kind of let people that resonate with them.

So it's.

It's on Dan Sullivan's model of the scorecards of, you know, there are four columns, and they rate themselves on one of those with two scores, the score where they are now and their aspirational score where they want to be. And we use that as a start to a conversation, because I know that when people fill out the 8 profit activator scorecard, that if they're. What I look for is if they're crystal clear on. On profit activator one, who they want to select as their target market, and they're high on profit activator 5 delivering the results. If they rate themselves low on profit activator 2, 3 and 4, the lead getting and converting that, that's somebody that I can help, right? If somebody's low on actually getting results for people, that requires more thinking or more, that requires more help than just helping them bridge that lead generation and lead conversion gap.

Check that out, Alex. Like knowing where to tap on the pipe that's clogged, right? It's like that's really cool. Well, the first thing I do when I go into Joe's office where all of us met last time at the Genius Network is we fill out a scorecard where we think we are multiple. Multiple dimensions. Yeah.

Well, you know, let me ask you about the why repurposing is superior to SEO. Because I definitely want to make sure we cover that. That's always an interesting one.

Well, that's, that is. You're going to think I'm kissing up to you, but I'm not. This is true. This is direct result of something Dean told me over five years ago. He says I push a button, I push another button and everything else gets activated. And that was discussing broadcast that he had. So for me, I like to do the content once I like video because I can repurpose the audio and the written word automatically. But if I write then I got to do video, you know, and audio. So it's more work. So in, in Dean's, you know, tradition of looking at my watch out of curiosity, which I've never forgotten, I heard it 20 years ago. I don't think I forgot that man. So Dean inspires the repurposing thing which I've been teaching for years. But imagine you push broadcast that I do on Friday at noon and I push end broadcast and it's on Facebook live now. Used to be webinar, then before that it was teleseminar. Then that I have deal, I'm done and I move on to something else. And I have all my minions of workers. Some have higher skills than others who have taught to do their thing. So one puts the bumpers on the video so can go into my members area which is paid. That's repurposing another one chunks. It puts it into my YouTube channel on Monday, Wednesday, Friday because I usually teach in three different chunks of those two, three different 10 minute day parts or parts of it that goes into other video directories like Vimeo and others bit shooting these days. And then you have the audio. We have audio as a podcast. You got stitcher Google Play and itunes. You got audio in the form of audio on your blog. If you have a blog that plays audio, which you should. Yeah. And so all these things are getting repurposed and what's happening is you have one message, but you have multiple different channels. So I disagree when people think the book is the message or the show is the message. In my case, the pod, my new podcast, I'm the message. Like Joe, you're the message with Genius Network. Okay. And Dean, you're the message with whatever it is you're launching. And then so in looking at a metaphor, the message is like the hub of a bicycle wheel. And then the market is the wheel itself. It's the outside part. And so a hub and a wheel of meaningless without spokes and repurposing is each spoke. One spokes, a book, another spokes, a Twitter tweet, another spokes, a Facebook live, another spoke is Facebook post, another Spoke is a YouTube channel. And you can have 30 spokes connect the wheel so that you have a really strong wheel. You're the hub, that's the message. The spokes are the media sources, which I call the repurposing channels. And then the wheel is the market. Not everyone wants to buy something on television. Some people like to buy it in retail, some people buy in radio. So you have the same product or message. It doesn't even need to be sold. It could be free like this, but it's going to be received in different ways. And so I don't think people repurpose enough. I think rather than writing a book every two years like best selling authors, write one book and repurpose it for 10 years like Stephen Covey, start the.

Conversation, you know that you're right on. I just can't say enough about that because this whole approach like I'm doing this right now with a. I wrote a new book for my realtors called Listing Agent Lifestyle and I. It's a 90 minute book and it's, you know, I'm using it right now to generate all, all the leads that you can imagine. We're getting opt ins in the 2 to 250 range. I get as many as I want. And the podcast that I have on the back of that is the ongoing conversation now it's just like I look at the podcast, this conversation, this dialogue, all this re purposing that you're talking about, this is really the way forward. I think, you know, it's all of this, it starts with the getting somebody who resonates with the message on the COVID of the book, I'm gathering people who are attracted to this idea of the listing agent lifestyle, building a listing centric real estate business. And then I'm carrying that journey on. That conversation is ongoing through the podcast, through the community that we're building at Gogo Agent and that whole it'll never.

The never ending conversation, your table of contents. And like when Joe sent me the manuscript of his book, I like, I yellow highlighted it, underlined it, tapped it. Remember that, Joe? I sent you a picture like your table of contents, Dean, is your editorial calendar to repurpose into the future for at least two years.

That's exactly right. Then now all of the podcasts that I do fit into one of the eight elements of the listing agent lifestyle.

You can visit again and again.

Absolutely. And they're constantly evolving and you're involving the community, you're involving the people who are, you know, who are following along with that. And it's much more of a conversation than, you know, this tome that you lock yourself away for, you know, months or years to write and then tada.

The thing with repurposed. Yeah, exactly. Well, the thing with repurposing that people get. We get tired of our own stuff before our, our tribe does. And so one thing that Danny, I mean, taught me, which is the mastermind where my podcast was named, he said, look, there's a difference between literacy and fluency. So we get to, we get our tribe to just being literate at something, they get good, but to be really good at something, to be great at it, you know, from good to great, that's, that's fluency. And fluency takes time. Just like Joe said he was talking about, you know, took two years or three years for me to master this, if there's any doubt about that. Go and get a recipe book, find a cake recipe, look at that cake on the left hand side of the page, look at all the ingredients on the right hand side, follow the instructions and see if that frickin cake comes out the same way. It never does.

There's a whole subreddit for that.

So the fluency part is where I think many marketers, and I wanted to say this for a long time so I appreciate the platform. Many marketers sell themselves short because they're not as good as they think they are. In many cases they're better and they just need to keep teaching the same content but from a different angle, like a different facet on a diamond. You know, it's the same thing, but you're just looking at it from a different angle, where you're learning more and getting more in from it. And there's a, there's this gap between literacy and fluency. So repurposing allows that transition to be a lot more fluid. And don't write as many books, just focus on the same book in different ways.

It's really. And I think a lot of that goes to having a bedrock contextual foundation for what you're doing. Like we look at the, look at the 8 profit activators like that, that, that's a, it's a bedrock thing that was equally valid 20 years ago and is going to continue to be valid as a contextual framework 20 years from now. But the content and the ways and the things that we have available to execute the eight profit activators continually evolving. It was very important to own a context. You know, if you can, if you can frame a context.

The framing that, that's the frame I was talking about. If the frame is messed up, then like for example, when we go into the morning panel on the Saturday morning at Genius network and there's 90 candidates of which I want all of them, but I know I'm not going to get them all, they have been framed to have already been pre qualified with an application. They've been at an event, they've been a few pre trial closes before. They've already paid 10k, so 15,000 more and they're in the year. That frame is tight. If that frame isn't tight, then I'd get complaints like oh man, Alex is trying to pitch me. Or what is this panel? They're trying to sell us into this thing. We don't get any of that. But there can be other panels where you do because the frame was not set up properly and people focus on the clothes, right? They focus on the painting when really it's the frame that allows that painting really to shine. I mean, you can do a Jason Pollock painting and put it in shitty frame and sell it for 15 bucks, which it has been. Or you can put it in a beautiful frame and sell it for $60 million, which is ad spend. So the frame is the thing and.

No, that's what I'm trying to say, basically.

I've never heard you ever before, man. I can't believe it.

Well, you know what? The thing's about to get good because Dean needs to leave. So Dean, why don't you just, why don't you just hop off and then I'm gonna wrap up with, with Alex because. Yeah, okay, so that was so great. Yeah, we love you, too. Your contributions were. All right. See you back. That's funny. The middle of a podcast, we're like, yep, let's bail off this one, dude. Okay. It's like a hitchhiker or something, right?

I know. And this is like. This is like audio porn, but we're kind of creating it, right? I know. It's so kind of like the porn stars in marketing right now. It should be. This one should be. I lust marketing.

That is comedy. It's total comedy. Well, here, let me. Let me do this. Just for timing purposes, I want you to talk about why seating is the new selling. Because I know you're. You're really good at explaining this well.

Okay, so confession, transparency. I've been doing it this whole show. So if I have an intention, like, what's my call to action? Well, the first goal in marketing, I was taught, start with the call to action. What's the call to action? Well, it's. The offer doesn't have to be for pay. It could be free. Right. So you start with the CTA first. Begin with the end in mind. You know what. What is that? Right. And Benjamin Disraeli first said that, by the way, Prime Minister of England. And then it was repurposed by Stephen Covey, who wrote Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Quotes get repurposed a lot. And so you start with the CTA minus all selling aside. Now, you haven't heard me say allsellingaside.com or allsellingaside.com iTunes. I just did. But you haven't heard me say it throughout, because what happened? And I like to tell on myself as we go because it's fun, especially for who's listening. What happens is, if you sell too soon, that's offensive. People shut you down. But if you seed like I have, I just was talking about this old selling side podcast, and I told the truth throughout. Like, everything I've said has been the truth. I know where the original ideas came from and how I put these two things together. And both of you guys had a lot to do with it. And I said where the name came from, you know, to the exact city in the mastermind. And I named those people. Well, those are all. That's all seeding. I don't know if you know any of those people, but if you do, that's another hash mark for, like, now, if you don't like the person, then I get a negative score. Like the hash mark. You got to be careful. Right? So seeding is the new Selling means why sell? Why not just sprinkle seeds like you would, like you would seeds to a tree, right? And then see which ones take root, and then that turns into a trunk, then branches, then leaves, and then fruit. It goes seeds to fruit. Now, here's the part that really irritates me, and I don't know why it does, but maybe I just got to overcome it. People talk about root cause. What's the root cause? And that's the key. What caused the sale? Root cause. There's no such thing as root cause. It's seed cause. The seed comes before the root. The acorn turns in and flops into a root, which goes into the trunk and the branches and the leaves, and then where's the fruit? Well, once you have fruit, let's say an apple, where are the seeds inside the fruit that lands on the ground, which causes more seeds, which cause more root, etc. So seeds are the beginning. You know, I don't know if there was a seed to the universe, but, you know, there's different theories about that. So with. With your offer when you're selling, and I say seeding is the new selling, I think I've been selling throughout, but it's been a seating process where I know what my call to action is. It's all selling aside. I've mentioned it. I didn't ask anyone to go there, right. I still haven't asked anyone to go there because I think that you got to earn the right, even though, you know, you know me and Dean knows me and probably some people listening know me. If you decide to sell this way, then it's more of a seduction and you don't know which seeds are going to take root. You never know. So you can see through storytelling. You can see through. For example, if you have a mentoring offer, it would be crazy to talk about coaching. You want to use the same seeding play language. So if you're offering mentoring, then make sure that you talk about mentoring, not coaching. When I'm making an offer to enroll people at Genius Network, which cost me $25,000 to do, by the way, right. I don't get paid for that. And I say that flat out. They say, why are you doing it? Is because this is a function of giving back to Joe over 20 years, and I have some guilt not joining earlier, and it definitely probably had an impact on my income, right? So when you say mastermind, that's one thing, but when you say network, that's something else. So seeding a network would be like, well, the difference between a mastermind and a network is this. Okay, if it was the genius mastermind, that would be like having a treasure map that leads to a treasure chest full of gold and riches. But this is not the genius mastermind. This is the Genius Network. And a network is more profound. In fact, it's a network of masterminds. Many masterminds have come out of the Genius Network, which, you know, Joe and I say it's like having a treasure map that leads to a treasure chest full of other treasure maps. So what would you rather have, a network or a mastermind? So I'm not minimizing mastermind. I've had them. I've developed them. But when I'm wanting to enroll people in the Genius Network, which, you know, I do, and I do it fairly well, doing it through seeding, not by selling. I'm saying, hey, join us. Look, us, look. You'll join all our people here. No, we're seeding the process. And then another thing is, like, why don't people join? Like, what are the objections? Well, what if you have a panel of people, and each person on the panel represented one objection. Here's one. It's not the right time. Here's another one. Hiring out people who are in the network. What do I need to join for? That was mine. Or how about this one? I don't have time to attend the events. Or this one? How do I know I have an roi? What can I be assured of an ROI or my business is not right for me? So where seeding is the new selling, what I do is I say, okay, Jason and Allison, okay, I'd like you to represent this objection. I'll set it up. As the leader of the panel. I mean, this is actual fact. This is what happens. And Joe, you know, it works. And that's we're seeding now and basically taking out all the rocks in the soil, the objections, so that there's room for the roots to take root and then grow this tree. So I stuck with the tree analogy. Analogies are great seeding mechanisms, but it's not about the offer. It's about what needs to happen in order to make a change so that you don't have this cost of inaction anymore. And my cost of inaction over 10 years is probably 30 million bucks. What cost me not 3 million. It was probably my ROI could have been 3 extra million, but my COI is probably 30 million because of the networking effect and what you've created. But I've done a lot of catching up in the last two years, this podcast is allowing me to express some things that I'd love to do, but a lot of my students, they're at the beginning stages. And so it doesn't have that same meaning as people who tried to do this. Bang, bang their head against the wall and say, God, I've been publishing two books a year and it's so hard to get it in bestseller status. Well, no, publish one for 10 years and repurpose that because what are you doing? You're seeding the book. That's what seeding is. The new selling is to me anyway. I'm sure you can get comments and they can up that ante on that definition.

I love it. Well, here's the thing, too. I mean, one of the things I learned early on with consumer awareness guides and things that you understand inside and out is that one of the best ways to not only sell people, but one of the most ethical and effective ways to just simply treat people is to educate them on how to make a buying decision. And a lot of. Yeah, exactly. And so, I mean, you take like stick Strategy secrets. I mean, we mentioned it here. That's another form of seating.

Yeah.

Me and Alex, we have a new version of Stick Strategy Secrets, which is truly one of the very best knowledge products, training products, information products, methodologies, strategies, all bundled together on what to do after somebody buys from you. Because that's one of the most neglected and most profitable veins of gold that you could ever tap into. And hardly anyone has any clue on what to do with it other than, you know, there's books written about, you know, client loyalty and stuff. But specific, here's the recipe, here's the strategies, here's the formulas, here's the templates. I mean, we gave that out to people. It's still an amazing program that we did in 2003, and now we've got a new version that we'll be coming out with very soon. But the point is, educating people on how to make a buying decision is critical, and educating people on how to do this is even more critical. So talk about where can people go to download, listen and share your podcast? All selling aside, we'll end with that. Just so people can have. I mean, everything that you do and teach is totally aligned with what me and Dean do at. I love marketing. And so it's just going to add cherry to the top of all this for all of our listeners.

Okay, thank you. Go to itunes, go to Stitcher, or go to Google Play. About 85% will download it from itunes. And it said all selling aside. Just type in those words, all selling aside into the itunes search and you'll get it. And the show notes are all selling aside dot com. Awesome. Awesome.

Is there anything I should have asked you, anything you would like to say that we didn't talk about? I mean, I would always love to. I'd love to do a part two with you because there's so many more things that we can discuss here because you're just a fountain of knowledge and experience. So just for this. Yeah, for this episode. Anything we didn't cover.

Yeah, there's one thing, and this is more about self healing and self therapy because I'm never good enough at it, but yet I teach it right? So it's another. The cobbler's kids shoes have holes in them. So everyone listening, I'm sure you have heard that, you know, it's good to be a giver, you know, to give, give, give, give first. And we hear that a lot. But that's only half of the. The cycle. That's all. That's half of the circle of success. The other half is receiving. And I know a lot of good givers. I'm one. I know you're one. But I know also those same good givers like me are shitty receivers. And I don't know where that comes from. Maybe it's childhood upbringing, maybe they're blind spots that require therapy or coaching. But I have to really think through by saying, you're welcome, or I'll receive, like this podcast, like I asked. And I typically would have said, no, that's okay. We don't have to do it so soon. Right? But instead, I. I was willing to be a good receiver, which serves the giver. And so whether you're in Genius Network or you've been listening to this podcast, I think if you take a look at the number of times that you're a good receiver versus a good giver, a lot of the resentment of giving too much and not getting back, I believe is not always about not getting back from the other source. It's. It's about not being willing to receive it. And so if you put up a wall, you're causing your own resentment. And I'm speaking for myself. I've caused my own resentments over the years just being a crappy receiver. So the final word for me is don't constipate the system for yourself, your family, your company, your colleagues. Be just as good of a receiver as, you know, a giver. And part of receiving is asking you know, that's, that's half of it. The other half is accepting. So that's usually not talked about. And I've said that, you know, when I go to the big events or the genius network events because I'm doing it for self healing. Like, you know, I'm not in a 12 step program, but one of the most successful ones, Alcoholics Anonymous. The two founders, you know, one was going to be the other person's sponsor and the person who's going to be a sponsor is Bill W. And Bill W. Went to Dr. Bob and said, look, I am, I'm just a complete waste case. There's no hope for me. It's never going to be worthwhile for you to sponsor me. And to that Dr. Bob said, Other founder, I'm not doing this for you. I'm doing it for me as a sponsor to stay in the program. Because that's how powerful addiction can have on someone's heart, head and hands. I look at it the same way with, in business is, you know, I want to give and to receive to complete the cycle. And in giving, it's only giving me another opportunity to receive not from the source I gave all the time. That's not how karma works, but from another source and just to be willing to receive. But what do people do? They keep score. They give to a source and then when they don't get back from that source, then there's the resentment. And I haven't been immune to that. But over the years I've learned as I've gotten older and my kids are in their teens, which you know, ends up becoming a really, you know, sober way to learn. You, you're not going to get back from the source you gave to, but what goes around comes around. So that's, I don't know if that's too business to W, which is business to woo woo but for this group. But I waited till the very end to say it just to hopefully I have enough rapport so it's received and not block. Because I think you can do a lot more business if you become a better receiver. If you don't think you're a good one right now.

Oh, absolutely. I mean this is another version of sell people what they want, give them what they need. And the fact is if you become a better, if you build a better you, every other skill set that you learn, be it selling or marketing or finance or health, I mean all of it boils down to who is the person that is taking the knowledge and the advice and how Are they applying it in their lives? And yeah, I mean I absolutely. You know, life gives to the giver and takes from the taker. And part of being a great giver is also being a great receiver because it can't be a one way street or like you said, you just get filled with, you know, you give of yourself but you never get any replenishing back. And a lot of times it's not the world that's doing that to you, it's you that's doing that to you. And I think that's what you just pointed out very eloquently. So thank you.

Yes. To thank you. Sometimes it's just. Wait for it. You're welcome. I just received your. Thank you.

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, totally. Well, Alex, look, it's been. This is great. We've done our first podcast now and I love marketing. Totally look forward to see where all selling aside goes. If those of you listening, if you'd like to meet Alex in person, he has plenty of his. Well, I'm sure you can find out just from. How would people find out more, Alex? I mean obviously all selling aside is the best place to start.

That's the best place to start. Just start there. Like get to know me. And if you decide to subscribe and you rate and review it, that's a good starting point. And those will be the seeds that lead to. There's plenty of breadcrumb navigation, Joe. That comes to the loaf of bread. It's just eating the first breadcrumb is the key.

Yeah, exactly. And when we have our six strategy secrets 2.0, we have that ready and prepared to tell the world. You'll hear about it if you stay in touch.

In the same way. In the same way, exactly.

So go to allsellingasside.com that's one way. Or just subscribe on itunes or Stitcher. And if you have anyone in your life that has a business or a company or a startup or just simply needs to be more effective, then share this episode with them and we'll see you on the next episode of I Love Marketing. Thank you, Alex.

Thanks for listening to this episode of I Love Marketing. If you'd like to learn more about the Genius Network annual event, please visit geniusnetworkevents.com that's geniusnetworkevents dot com if you would like access to the complete presentation, the show notes, the links and the special resources for this episode, please visit ilovemarketing.com 322 that's ilovemarketing.com 322.