Creating Connection and Breakthrough With the Right Questions Featuring Dan Sullivan - I Love Marketing Episode #415

You make far more impact on people with questions than with answers. So if you look at most sales training and you look at the quality of most marketing in the marketplace, they're firing answers out at people. People don't want answers. What they would really like is questions that make them think about what they would really like.

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We've invested a tremendous amount of time learning the mastering direct response marketing. And we love it because it's a way to replicate yourself. I think marketing is the ultimate leverage. And I'd like to ask you, Dan, you know, what does marketing mean to you? What is it to you? And you're certainly a great marketer and I'd love to get your take on it.

Well, the, you know, I mean, you know, again, I'm gonna have to take a second seat here because what we had, you know, when you met us in strategic coaches, we were a great sales organization, you know, you know, I started this in 74, 1974, and we were always a great sales organization. In other words, put us in front of someone and we can probably get them to sign a check, and not only one check, but we can probably keep them for a long time. So we were good at selling. But what I learned really from you was the fact is that, yeah, but how do you get in front of the person? And is that costing you more and more every year, or is there a way that that can actually cost you less every year? So the real secret ultimately is to be a great salesperson is that you have to be a great marketer first. And great marketing means is constantly increasing your ability to catch other people's attention, their interest, and do it at a lower and lower cost every year. And I mean, that's, you know, and if you can't do that, then, then, I mean, everything comes down to the cost of the actual acquisition of someone who's going to write a check to you.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And by the way, jumping at any point in time, I think what you.

Were saying, you know, because we talk about this, this concept of the before unit, and one of the great ways to think about it is to think if you could buy, if it was like a vending machine where you could identify what your ideal, who your ideal customer is, who your ideal client is, and you could like push a button, put in the amount of money that you can know, knowingly pay to get one of those and do that as often as you can. That's what really your before unit is about, is about building that vending machine that you put whatever the amount that you can spend to acquire a Customer, if it's $100, $1,000, $5,000, if you can reliably push that button and have your ideal client end up in your workshops or in your.

Yeah, and I mean, we've, you know, again, it's who I'm hanging. Hanging out with recently. Just to your point, Dean, you know, we did a little comparison. And I mean, this was just like, you know, you've been operating in one world and you think you have it figured out, and then you discover some people who have a whole new methodology. We went over to webinars, you know, which we had never done. You know, we had always been live speech, usually at trade shows where you ship your team there, you have to pay for air flight, you have to pay for hotels, you have to pay for booth space. And, you know, that had been a tried and true. We were going to the trade shows, and then we introduced this new methodology of webinars. And we just did a little comparison of the last 50 people that we acquired at a trade show and the last 50 people we acquired at a webinar. And we said, how much did one cost and how much did the other cost? And the cost of acquisition of trade show was $1,200, you know, per client. Now, our. The lifetime value of 1 of our client is $25,000. So we could sort of justify it, but the 50 that we got from the webinar was $12 per person. So you got $12,000 on one side and 12 on the other. And we're sitting there and we say, which one? We go with, where does our future lie? You know, and that's the interesting thing about, you know, Dean, the world that you're living in and Joe, the world that you're constantly pushing with, you know, with all the piranha marketing technologies that you've created is, you know, there's much, much, much better ways of doing this, you know, and we live in a wonderful age, you know, I mean, I'm just really happy to be alive in the 21st century, especially the last 10 years, just because of the technologies that are now empowering entrepreneurs in a way that we're only. That they used to only be available to large corporations.

Well, you know, what's. What's new about the world and what's always going to stay the same. You know what I mean is like, there's things that are timely, that are going to make you successful and that are going to be constantly changing and innovations. And then there's timeless principles of quote, unquote, success, if you want to call it that.

Yeah.

What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I think what's timeless, I've got this technique that I use when I start one of my introductions and I say, I just want everybody to raise your hand. Are you here for me or are you here for you? And I said, anybody except me, Put your hand down. And when I say you're here for you, raise your hand. And I think that what's timeless is that people are always there for themselves, and it's your job as a marketer to figure out why they're there for themselves. And that's timeless. And it's timeless that that's always going to be true. What's not timeless is that it's always going to be changing why they're there. You know, in other words, their reasons for being there are going to change with the way the world changes, the way that things. But what's always going to be true is that they're there for themselves. So as a marketer, a creator of new products, new services, new experiences, then you have to realize that it's your job to always be figuring out why are they there and what are they willing to write a check for, and why would they stay with you? Why would they stay with you? And so if the emphasis, I mean, they're never there for you, you have to realize that. And the moment you realize that they're not here for me, they're only there for themselves. And your job is to figure out why they're there for themselves. And I think that's the secret.

But I'd like to have you just kind of touch on what is the DOS conversation and why is it such a powerful way to. As Robert Collier said back in the 50s, in the Robert Collier letter book, you want to enter as a marketer, you want to enter a conversation that's already existing in the prospect's mind. And. And you have a great process of getting right to what is existing in the prospect's mind.

It's called a DOS conversation.

So what is that?

Well, I think, you know, I mean, just to start with, I just want to, you know, emphasize what you just said. And this is what a lot of people don't understand, that all sales is actually A conversation, you know, and conversation means it's two way. You know, that's what a conversation is. And the other thing that I've discovered is that you make far more impact on people with questions than with answers. So if you look at most sales training and you look at the quality most marketing in the marketplace, they're firing answers out at people. People don't want answers. What they would really like is questions that make them think about what they would really like. So one of the things that I've put a lot of emphasis on over the years, you know, both with my own company and how we get people into the strategic coach, but also, you know, with all the thousands of entrepreneurs who have been in the strategic coach process, is to say the way you really differentiate yourself in the marketplace is not with answers, but with questions. Now, what question? If that's really the case, then which question is really going to make the biggest difference? Well, it's going to be a question about the other person. And I always say, you can never sell anything in the present. You can always sell something in the future. In other words, don't try to sell somebody right now because all their money is already used up right now, okay? So you have to sell something that is such a big future result that people would be willing now to invest. Because all sales, you know, when people buy something, they're investing in an experience in the future that's going to be better than anything they have right now. That's really, you know, I don't care if it's a car or it's a trip or anything. You're investing in a better future that has a bigger experience. So what I try to do is get people in the conversation. That's the sale to go take the person down the road. And my question, the Dan Sullivan question, is, you know, Dean or Joe or whoever I'm talking to, I say, you know, if we were meeting here and it was three years from now, and you name the date, because that's the human brain really likes numbers and it really likes dates. And you say, and we were looking back over the three years, what has to happen in your life, both personally and also professionally, if it's appropriate? Sometimes it's personally, sometimes it's professionally for you to feel happy with your progress. And I just want to tell you that there's three things that I've just said that are the key to really differentiating yourself in the marketplace is get them down the road. Don't have the conversation about now because there's no money right now. And not only that, their life is very complicated right now. Three years down the road, everybody wants their life to be incredibly better. So get them to tell you what the picture is that they see themselves three years down the road and then have them work back and tell you what had to happen over that three years for them to feel happy with their progress. Happy. They're the only ones who can say what they're happy. And they're the only people who can say what constitutes progress for them. Okay. And they're the expert on this. You're talking to someone, and they're the only one who knows the answer to this question. So if I'm not getting that answer from someone, I don't know what it is that I can do that they'd be willing to write a check for, you know, and that's. That's a big thing. Now, having said that, you know, that's a highly individual thing. And you make your money by talking to lots of people. You make your money by talking to lots of people. But you talk to a lot of people who are really the same kind of people. Just like I talk to people, you know, I, you know, in the. Really, the person that I'm talking to in strategic coach is one out of 400. We've actually done the numbers, the kind of person we would want. If you take the general population, we're talking to one out of 400 people. And over 35 years, I really got to know who that one person out of 400 is. So I know what they're three things about them. I know that what really keeps them up at night, two o' clock in the morning, they can't sleep, they're really worried about something. I know their dangers. I know what gets them excited, you know, where their sense of opportunity is. And I know totally, you know, what they feel confident about, you know, the kinds of strengths and accomplishments they've had. And so when I'm talking to them, I'm talking about their dangers, I'm talking about their opportunities, I'm talking about their strengths. So having said that, my question, three years, looking back specifically, what dangers do you have now that have to be eliminated over the next three years? What opportunities have to be captured and what strengths do you have that need to be maximized? Because you have strengths, but they're not being maximized to the degree that you would really want to have them for you to really be happy with your progress. You ask that question, they'll talk for two hours, and every piece of information they give you is totally valuable. They're telling you exactly what it is that you can do for them.

It's interesting, though, because I've seen people make the mistake initially when they're taking this question and they're asking people, you know, let's go forward three years from today, and what would have to happen for you to be happy with our progress, like framing it that I'm in the relationship. It's almost like, what's it going to take to get you in a car today? You know, where you're saying in our relationship, but what you're saying, the key distinction is it's not about.

Not at all.

It's completely about them and just whether it is in relation to whatever service you're offering.

Yeah, I mean, 99% of the people you meet were hoping to get through their life without meeting you. I mean, it's an inconvenience that. It's a total inconvenience to you that, you know, that you've actually come into their life. So, yeah, you better. You better be valuable to them. Yeah. And I think that that's the problem. Again, it's me centered. It's me centered, you know. Yes, it's me centered. And so we have to, you know, we have to, you know, we have to take that into consideration that it's not about us, it's about them. And the more that we can move out of our own head and into their head and understand how they're looking at the world and then lining it up with what we can actually do for them, then we have a real value creation proposition.

Gotcha. Gotcha. With the dos conversation, people, really, they can't reach. Everyone watching has dangers, Everyone watching has opportunities, and everyone watching has strengths. And with, I love marketing, our job is to actually take our strength in marketing, share it with the world, and allow these entrepreneurs to become basically stronger in the area of marketing so that they can reach their opportunities. And there are, you know, Dan, you said it a million times that people do not reach their opportunities if they don't eliminate their dangers, real and psychological. And I think most of the things that keep people from reaching their opportunities is these, these dangers that are literally in their head. You know, I can't do it. I, you know, my competitors are better than me. You know, what, whatever. And the cool thing about the dos conversation is it is it addresses one of the most important aspects of needing to sell something to somebody, market somebody, is you understand the mindset of the people that you are selling to. Because me and Dean both very much in you being a expert in helping real estate agents as an example with their businesses, me with professional carpet and upholstery cleaners and people in the restoration, fire and flood industry. I understand the mindset of these people very well. I understand their dangers, their opportunities and their strengths. And people like, well, how do you guys do what it is you do? Well, we understand them and we know how to solve many of their problems and we offer solutions. And Dan knows the DOS of entrepreneurs better than probably anyone in the world. And so what are you an expert in understanding the dos on with your clientele? That's why you need to read the book the Dan Sullivan Question and it will enhance everything that you're learning from me and Dean related to before, during and after. Easy, lucrative and fun robotic automated marketing strategies using compelling direct response. I mean, all of this. The reason we're bringing you conversations like this to Dan is not only because it's interesting and you're going to learn stuff, but also it's going to help you make more money. And I wanted to tie that in.

Every year you're taking what started off as a huge circle and you're making that circle smaller and smaller and smaller, but that circle becomes more powerful in terms of the value that you can actually create for a very select group people.

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Sam.