Episode 18: The one with Dan Sullivan (VIDEO)

Hello, this is Joe Polish, and I'm here with my good friend, Mr. Dean Jackson. Little fella. Little fella. And Dan Sullivan, founder of Strategic Coach. And me and Dean are actually going to be asking Dan some questions, but I'm going to interrupt and be very interruptive during this kind of impromptu interview.

Imagine that.

Now, Dan Sullivan, you guys that listen to I love marketing and ilovemarketing.com and on iTunes already know who me and Dean are and clearly know that I'm the smartest of the two. But what do you think of that?

I wink at the camera.

Okay, wonderful.

Because we know.

All right, good. Well, this is videos only. This interview is only for people that have a bigger future. Now, here's one of Dan's books, which is the laws of lifetime growth. Always make your future bigger than your past. And so me and Dean believe that the reason that you actually listen to I love Marketing to the show, to the podcast, is because you have a bigger future where you want better clients, you want to make more money, and you want to have more fun. And another one of Dan's many knowledge products is called Learning how to Avoid the Gap. And we may talk about that, we may not, but I just wanted to show you a couple of things. So Dan showed up, and here we are. So, Dan, I've been in Strategic Coach at this point in time for over 13 years. Dean Jackson is in the program. It is the highest level coaching program in the world for successful entrepreneurs. And you've heard me say this a million times. You are truly the smartest entrepreneur, entrepreneurial thinker that I've ever met in my life. You're brilliant, and you've coached thousands of some of the world's highest level entrepreneurs. And you know a lot about how to make them better, how to assist them. And so most of the people that are watching this video are either already in a business or definitely entrepreneurs. And so, you know, from the get go, what the heck do you actually do at Strategic Coach?

Well, I think this is, you know, this is kind of an example of why great entrepreneurs become great, is that they hang around with other great entrepreneurs. And I say that as if it's sort of a flipping statement, but it's really not. You know, there was a great motivational speaker in the States by the name of Charlie Tremendous Jones. And Charlie Tremendous Jones had this great line which to this day, I think is probably the bedrock of how you move ahead with your life. And he said, you know, you know, who you are 10 years ago is really a function of one, the books you read, you know, like the ideas that you expose yourself to, but who you hang out with. And, you know, so when I look at really great entrepreneurs, you, you know, you go a little ways away from them, and you notice that their networks are just filled up with other people who are really smart, who really challenge them, who are constantly giving them new ideas. And I wish there were more secrets than that, but actually, I wish that I could make some money on. But actually, those are the two secrets.

All right, well, this concludes this interview. No, that's fantastic. That is true, though. I mean, really, why do you know, what is it about learning? I mean, what do entrepreneurs really need to learn? Because when you say the people you hang out with and the books you read, I mean, some people are readers, some people are not. Some people go to seminars, other people don't. What is your take on what do you really need to learn as an entrepreneur?

Well, you know, I was talking to one of my groups about two weeks ago, and I'm going to take about a minute to set this up, but it's actually a very instructive thing because the really great entrepreneurs all have the quality that I'm going to describe here. I went to Britain. I went to London one year, and I went to Westminster Abbey. And, you know, you walk around, there's kings buried there, there's prime ministers. And, you know, you'd think with Britain being a great theatrical country, there'd be a lot of actors there. But there's only one actor, and his name is Laurence Olivier. And so I got interested. I said, you know, why only one actor? And, you know, I'd seen him when I was a kid, and he predated me by. He was quite a bit older than me. But I read his biography, and he had this trick that he did, and the trick was that he was very famous and he was very popular. And so when he was appearing on stage, everybody would go to see him, you know, so the plays that he was in would last 150, 200. 200 performances. And the reputation he had was if you went to the 250th performance, it was just as fresh as his first performance. And in the book, it kind of describes how he did this, and that is that before the performance, he'd go out about 15 minutes before the curtain went up, and he'd look through a hole in the curtain, and he had this little ritual that he would say to themselves, this is not last night's audience. This is not last night's Theater. This is not last night's play. I am not last night's character. The cast is not last night's cast. And he said, it's all new. And as he did this, he would get scared and he would get excited just as if it was opening night. And what I find, you know, along with the Charlie Tremendous Jones things, is that one of the things that really great entrepreneurs are always reminding themselves is that whatever they did yesterday, that was last night's play. But now this is a fresh play, this is new. And I think, you know, that really has to do is not taking the audience for granted, not taking that what you were doing before is going to work today. And you're always open to. Totally. You know, I'm going to get surprised today, and I have to really be alert that there's something new that's going to come out of the blue today, and I have to really be fresh for this.

That's fantastic. So as it relates to an education, I heard you say this very early on when I joined Strategic Coaches. There's two things that you need to become an entrepreneur in the beginning. One is courage, and the other is ignorance. And I thought it's really a great way to look at it, because if I really knew all of the challenges that I would encounter going into business, some of it would have scared the hell out of me.

Yeah, you'd be working for the government right now.

Exactly. Which would have been.

Only civil servants really know the true risks of being an entrepreneur. I mean, it's true. I mean, if you really knew what you were getting into, you'd never do it.

No, I mean, you're signing up for some insanity at some level, some risks, the levels of responsibility that you take as an entrepreneur, that sort of stuff.

But the courage is that, you know, that whatever happens, that you'll have the ability to respond to it. I think that's. That's where the courage part comes into.

Well, yeah, totally. And so, I mean, obviously, you know, there's. There's a lot of things to learn. So, you know, for someone that would be watching this video, out of all of the stuff that they could pay attention to in. In this day and age, most entrepreneurs that I know are extraordinarily overwhelmed, very busy, don't take any free time, Got into the business, I think, because they wanted freedom, they wanted to make money because they thought they really don't have any freedom, and they're still trying to. What do I pay attention to? What business book should I read? What seminar should I go to, if they even do that at all. How would you advise someone on how to, you know, have a functional, balanced life with some freedom, but also to be as productive as they can possibly be? I mean, you know, there's a lot to that. I know, and it's not maybe a one word answer, but what do you tell them?

Well, there's a couple of questions that you asked there, but the first one is, and this is where I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs really burn out. And that is they forget after a while that they're actually in a brain business, they're not in a body business. In other words, it's not how many hours or days your body is at work, it's what your brain doing. And so probably the biggest distinction that my work has made in the marketplace is really the emphasis that I put on free time is actually having lots and lots of free time so that you can give your mind a lot of rejuvenation and a of lot, lot of rest and a lot of refreshment. Because when your brain is really at its top function, you can achieve things very, very quickly. You can come up with ideas very quickly. And so it's not like you're a factory worker where you get paid for putting in hours with an entrepreneur. It's just being really alert to new opportunities and taking advantage of them very quickly. And your brain really has to be fresh for that. So I actually put an enormous amount of emphasis, you know, I'm sort of very contrarian here. As you know, it's, you know, if you take 20 or 30 weeks off, you can be a, probably a much more effective entrepreneur than someone who's putting in 50, 50 hour.

You know, there's a distinction to what you do though, because you, you're an advocate for putting the free time on the front end as opposed to work till you collapse and then take the free time. You're saying take the free time as rejuvenation and approach then the work.

Yeah, and I think the reason is, and it goes to the kind of work, you know, that I've noticed that you do, Dean, is that, is that you're testing. You know, I mean, one of the big things that I'm so fascinated with, and Joe, you've kind of introduced me to this world, is the whole world of information marketing, especially those who are using online capabilities. And what I'm so impressed about this world is the willingness to fail really fast. You know, I would say that the secret of this world is to get an idea out and immediately set it up as a test to see is there any take on it whatsoever. And if there isn't, change and get out there and do something new. Well, your brain really has to be really, really fresh to be first. First of all, just to have emotional the courage to say, you know, I thought this was a really great idea. Whoops. Didn't work. Let's change real quickly, but then have the stamina on the spot to come up with a new. You know, I'm so impressed with you guys, you know, because I've been, you know, Dean, I've been doing this interview series with really, you know, you guys are kind of like the giants of the. Of this new world. And I'm so impressed with the speed with which you're willing to fail. The success is almost just fail enough, and then there isn't anything more to fail at. And then all you're left with is something that really works well.

See, the beauty of marketing is in the real world, it's called failure. And the marketing world is called testing. Testing.

You know me, that's how I rationalized my bankruptcies and divorce a long time ago. Just extreme market research.

Exactly. Well, Dr. Jackson, what would you like to ask Dr. Sullivan about. About marketing?

You know, I think when one of the things.

And I'm gonna get some water.

What you're able to do with Strategic Coach and why Joe and I are part of this is. You mentioned what, what Charlie Tremendous Jones said is your, your income, your life, who you are really is. Is one of the factors, is the kind of people that you hang out with. And I know that, that one of the most incredible benefits of being part of Strategic Coach, when Joe and I go, is the people that are in the room, the people that are there, are just like. It's a tremendous growth opportunity because everybody is a successful entrepreneur. Not just a successful entrepreneur. They're the top of the top of the successful entrepreneurs. And it's just a real growth experience just to even expand your network like that.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, just to bring out another quality that I think really distinguishes the entrepreneurs, there's a real humility. You know, there's a guy named Bill Joy in Silicon Valley, and he's got this famous law, which is called Joy's Law. And Joy's Law is that no matter how smart you are, there's somebody out there who's smarter. And you have to recognize that. And I think that when you come into Strategic Coach, you recognize that you're smart in one way. And that's really, you know, gotten you where you are. But what gets you even further is the willingness that just as you're smart in a particular area, there's lots of other people who are very, very smart, just as smart as you are in their areas. And that, you know, that just expands you because you realize, well, first of all, I don't have to be smart in their area. I can just take advantage of what they're doing.

Okay, so now let's talk about smart marketing and let's talk about the whole concept of marketing. Me and Dean have spent at least, gosh, probably 20 years, almost 20 years. For me, it's been more. I think I'm better than you because I think I've got a year on you.

What do you think?

I don't know. But we've invested a tremendous amount of time learning and mastering direct response marketing, and we love it because it's a way to replicate yourself. I think marketing is the ultimate leverage. And I'd like to ask you, Dan, what does marketing mean to you? What is it to you? You're certainly a great marketer and I'd love to get your take on it.

Well, I mean, you know, again, I'm going to have to take a second seat here because what we had, you know, when you met us in Strategic Coaches, we were a great sales organization. You know, I started this in 74, 1974. And we were always a great sales organization. In other words, put us in front of someone and we can probably get them to sign a check. And not only one check, but we can probably keep them for a long time. So we were good at selling. But what I learned really from you was the fact is that, yeah, but how do you get in front of the person? And is that costing you more and more every year, or is there a way that that can actually cost you less every year? So the real secret ultimately is to be a great salesperson is that you have to be a great marketer first. And. And great marketing means is constantly increasing your ability to catch other people's attention, their interest, and do it at a lower and lower cost every year. And I mean, that's, you know, and if you can't do that, then, I mean, everything comes down to the cost of the actual acquisition of someone who's going to write a check to you.

Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, jumping at any point in time, I think what you.

Were saying, because we talk about this concept of the before unit and one of the great ways to think about it is to think if you could buy, if it was like a vending machine where you could identify what your ideal. Who your ideal customer is, who your ideal client is, and you could push a button, put in the amount of money that you can knowingly pay to get one of those, and do that as often as you can. That's what really your before unit is about, is about building that vending machine that you put whatever the amount that you can spend to acquire a customer, if it's a hundred dollars, $1,000, $5,000, if you can reliably push that button and have your ideal client end up in your workshops or in your.

Yeah. And I mean, we've, you know, again, it's who I'm hanging out with recently. Just to your point, Dean, you know, we did a little comparison. And I mean, this was just like, you know, you've been operating in one world and you think you have it figured out, and then you discover some people who have a whole new methodology. But about a year and a half ago, we went over to webinars, you know, which we had never done. You know, we had always been live speech, usually at trade shows where you ship your team there, you have to pay for air flight, you have to pay for hotels, you have to pay for booth space. And, you know, that had been a tried and true. We were going to the trade shows, and then we introduced this new methodology of webinars. And we just did a little comparison of the last 50 people that we acquired at a trade show, in the last 50 people we acquired at a webinar. And we said, how much did one cost and how much did the other cost? And the cost of acquisition of the trade show was $1,200 per client. Now, the lifetime value of one of our client is $25,000. So we could sort of justify it. But the 50 that we got from the webinar was $12 per person. So you got $12,000 on one side and 12 on the other. And we're sitting there and we say which one?

We go for.

Where does our future lie? You know, and that's the interesting thing about, you know, Dean, the world that you're living in and Joe, the world that you're constantly pushing with, you know, with all the piranha marketing technologies that you've created is, you know, there's much, much, much better ways of doing this, you know, and we live in a wonderful age, you know, I mean, I'm just really happy to be alive in the 21st century, especially the last 10 years just because of the technologies that are now empowering entrepreneurs in a way that they used to only be available to large corporations.

Well, you know, what's new about the world and what's always going to stay the same. What I mean is like there's things that are timely, that are going to make you successful in that are going to be constantly changing and innovations. And then there's timeless principles of quote, unquote success, if you want to call it that.

Yeah.

What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I think what's timeless, I've got this technique that I use when I start one of my introductions and I say, I just want everybody to raise your hand. Are you here for you? Are you here for me or are you here for you? And I said, anybody that said me, put your hand down. And when I say you're here for you, raise your hand. And I think that what's timeless is that people are always there for themselves and it's your job as a marketer to figure out why they're there for themselves. And that's timeless. And it's timeless that that's always going to be true. What's not timeless is that it's always going to be changing why they're there. In other words, their reasons for being there are going to change with the way the world changes, the way that things. But what's always going to be true is that they're there for themselves. So as a marketer, a creator of new products, new services, new experiences, then you have to realize that it's your job to always be figuring out why are they there and what are they willing to write a check for and why would they stay with you? Why would they stay with you? And so if the emphasis, I mean, they're never there for you, you have to realize that. And the moment you realize that they're not here for me, they're only there for themselves. And your job is to figure out why they're there for themselves. And I think that's the secret. Yeah, well, yeah, well, you know, I.

Mean.

I'm a great student of American history and James Madison, who arguably is the great genius behind the whole experiment that's called the United States States, said, you know, some philosophies are based on that human beings are going to be really, really virtuous. And he says, I think it's a much better bet that they're actually going to be very selfish and very self interested. So build a system of government where all their selfishness and their looking out for themselves actually contributes to the common good. So while we'll just create a system where the, you know, where we'll just funnel their selfishness so that it produces great goods for everybody else. And I think that that's basically the marketplace, I think that's capitalism, is that somehow by everybody pursuing their own interests and trying to get what they want, it actually produces an enormous amount of good for everybody.

Yeah, well, you are a gigantic proponent, as are both of us, for capitalism. And I'm constantly quoting this from you, although I don't know if you came up with it, but I heard you say that the only thing wrong with capitalism is that it was named by its enemies who came up with it.

That was actually FA Hayek, who was kind of a lonely voice out in the world in the 1940s when everybody thought that socialism was going to take over the world. And he basically said that, basically what capitalism really is is a system of ever increasing cooperation, cooperation among strangers. And Babs, you know, my partner in life and in business will tell you this story that whenever we're overseas and we're in France or we're in Italy or we're in Israel, last three places that we visited, and I need cash, I go to the ATM machine, you know, and you know, they ask you, first of all, very polite, they ask you which language you want to speak. So you, I mean, it's very, it's very civilized, you know, so you punch it in. You punch in your cash and you sit there and you sit there and you listen and it goes, how comes your cash? And I turned to her and I said, what a world. Because it is such a world, because none of the people who delivered my cash, you know, the computer programmers, the people who designed the cooperation and the arrangements between banks, the people who figured out how if they ask for $200, actually give them $200, don't shortchange them, it all goes back to your bank account. Immense, immense amount of cooperation among hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of strangers. And that's capitalism. And they weren't doing it for me. But I'm the one who, when I need the cash, I give my cash. And you have to understand what an amazing creation this is, this vast cooperation. For some reason, the ATM always strikes me as one of the great examples of capitalism. Anywhere you are, you need cash, you get your cash.

What do you say to people that slam capitalism or say greedy capitalists, are they just ignorant? Are they? I mean, there's a lot of anti capitalistic mentality and forces in the world. And I think it's pathetic, I think it's pitiful and I think it's destructive. And you know, I think capitalist and capitalism is the purest, truest system for solving social and economic problems that's ever existed. And I don't know if you feel the same way. I would think you do. And what are your thoughts on the anti capitalistic mentalities that exist? And why does it exist? Is it because they don't understand it? Is it because these people are, to use maybe Ayn Rand sort of thing, parasites, producers and destroyers? I mean, what is the.

Well, you know, I know people like that. I mean, I hang out with people on both sides of the road and I know people like that. And what always strikes me, me, when you get right down to the bottom of it, they have this desire for an extended childhood where they get taken care of by other people. So they were taken care of by their parents and then they were taken care of by their school system and by their professors, and then they want to be taken care of by an employer and then they want to be taken care of by the government. Ultimately, they want the government to be their parents and take care of them and think about their needs and, you know, and not, and what they're trying to avoid. And I find, you know, in the life of every human being, there's this point what I call the, you know, they have a destiny, they have a sort of a meeting with uncertainty where you have to go out into the world with no safety net. You have to go out into the world where it's not about, you know, who your parents were, it's not about how you were educated. It's not about, you know, all your credentials, it's not about who you, you know, all the people you, the neighborhood you came from. It's just about can you actually create any value out there that somebody would want to pay for? And I think a lot of people just dread ever having to go out there and do that. And the entrepreneurs are the ones who went out there and did that and passed on. And then there's this whole class of people who are just trying to extend their childhood right till the time that they die.

That's what I'm trying to say.

That's what I was trying to say.

And I think the anti capitalism is sort of a childish, it's sort of like an immaturity of not realizing that the only way that you should actually be able to afford yourself on this planet is actually by creating value for other people, and they're willing to actually you for that without any intermediary. Who protects you if you fail?

Well, you said that the two entrepreneurial attitudes are you're not entitled to anything without creating value for someone else, and that you're 100% responsible for your life and success. Now, my take on it, though, is that a lot of capitalists are scorned. They're vilified. They're looked at as like, they don't care about taking care of the poor. They're greedy. All they want is money for themselves. I'm not saying this, of course. I'm just saying the media says that. And frankly, most true entrepreneurs that I know are the most giving people. They create tons of value. They very much care. They give tremendous amounts to the world. They take care of tremendous amounts of people. I mean, you know, why is that sort of belief system created by certain politicians and, you know, the media?

Well, even among the entrepreneurs, I mean, it's really strange. One of the weird phenomenons that we have in society is people who become very wealthy because they create something new and, you know, they get it out into the marketplace, and we've seen lots of examples of this. And then they get to the point where they're really successful and their mind changes. And they do two things which I find very, very interesting. One is that they, instead of creating new things, they try to stop other people from creating new things. So they want to establish a monopoly for themselves. Not a monopoly where you're so good that people wouldn't even think about anything else. Like, I think of Steve Jobs as my great role model in life is actually Steve Jobs, because here he is, you know, he's been at this for 35, 40 years, and every quarter he's coming out with something new, and he's raising the stakes every quarter. And then there's other people, even in his own field, who, after a certain point, they're putting more money into lobbyists in Washington to keep the government from preventing competition. Then they're not entrepreneurs anymore. You know, they've entered into the realm of government. And now what they're trying to do is to get the government to prevent any competition to whatever they've created. So that's one failing. And the other thing is that they start talking about all sorts of weird things. You know, how we got to save the world. There's two things that make me want to short an entrepreneur's stock. One of them is when they buy a sports franchise. You know, it's like Howard Schultz, you could see the day he bought a sports franchise. You could see the Starbucks brand go downhill, you know, because he was bored. You know, nobody buys a sports franchise unless they're really bored. I mean, the game they're playing is no longer interesting enough. Now they've got to buy a sports franchise. But the other thing is when they start talking about, now we've got to save the world, and the world doesn't need saving. All the world needs is more entrepreneurs.

The world's going to be fine.

The world's going to be fine.

That is great. Yeah. So, I mean, people just very much, I think the ones that kind of get it, which is why we like hanging out, are the entrepreneurs, because they're in the trenches. The people that aren't in the trenches, they think they understand the game and they don't even understand the game. And a lot of them, I think, are just simply jealous of they're not playing the game and someone's doing it better than they are. So, man, what people are not up on, they're down on.

Well, the other thing is, I think they get. I think there's a point. There's a danger point. It's not just entrepreneurs, but it could be anybody, whether it could be a Hollywood star, it could be a politician, or anything else, where they become fixated more on the rewards than on the activity. So for me, the entrepreneurs that I love hanging out with are the ones that it's always about the game. And the game always has to have two qualities. One is that it's very exciting. I'm going for things I've never done before, and it's very scary because I could really blow it. And if you don't have those two, what I would say, those two fuels in your gas tank, one of those fear and one of excitement, then I think you're not playing the game as an entrepreneur. And some people just get tired. I think physically they get tired, mentally they get tired, and they just can't play the game anymore. But my goal, you know, just as a personal entrepreneur, is to always be playing that game and to die one day right in the middle of that game. I never want to retire from that game. Yeah, that's awesome.

Well, okay, so since this is. I love marketing, I want to actually recommend. That was some great, great thoughts. You have a book, one of your most recent books called the Dan Sullivan Question. And earlier you were talking about knowing that it's about them. And you have a great process that can be used in a face to face selling situation, in a group selling situation or in a marketing campaigns. So the way that I always define marketing deans the same way is it's selling in advance, it's getting people to show up that are pre interested, pre motivated, pre qualified and predisposed to give you money. You have a thing called a DOS conversation, which stands for dangers, opportunities and strengths. And I recommend you go to Amazon or anywhere that sells books and get the Dan Sullivan question the book, you can get it@strategiccoach.com also. But I'd like to have you just kind of touch on what is the DOS conversation and why is it such a powerful way to. As Robert Collier said back in the 50s, in the Robert Collier letter book, you want to enter as a marketer, you want to enter a conversation that's already existing in the prospect's mind and you have a great process of getting right to what is existing in the prospect's mind. It's called a DOS conversation. So what is that?

Well, I think, you know, I mean, just to start with, I just want to emphasize what you just said. This is what a lot of people don't understand, that all sales is actually a conversation. Conversation means it's two way. That's what a conversation is. The other thing that I've discovered is that you make far more impact on people with questions than with answers. If you look at most sales training and you look at the quality most market marketing in the marketplace, they're firing answers out at people. People don't want answers. What they would really like is questions that make them think about what they would really like. So one of the things that I put a lot of emphasis on over the years, both with my own company and how we get people into the strategic coach, but also with all the thousands of entrepreneurs who have been in the strategic coach process, is to say the way you really differentiate yourself in the marketplace is not with answers, but with questions. Now what question? If that's really the case, then which question is really going to make the biggest difference? Well, it's going to be a question about the other person. And I always say you can never sell anything in the present, you can always sell something in the future. In other words, don't try to sell somebody right now because all their money is already used up right now. Okay? So you have to sell something that is such a big future result that people would be willing now to invest. Because all sales, you know, when people buy something, they're investing in an experience in the future that's going to be Better than anything they have right now. That's really, you know, I don't care if it's a car, it's a trip or anything. You're investing in a better future that has a bigger experience. So what I try to do is get people in the conversation. That's the sale to go, take the person down the road. And my question, the Dan Sullivan question, is, you know, Dean or Joe or whoever I'm talking to, I say, you know, if we were meeting here and it was three years from now, and you name the date, because that's. The human brain really likes numbers and it really likes dates. And you say, and we were looking back over the three years, what has to happen in your life, both personally and also professionally, if it's appropriate. Sometimes it's personally, sometimes it's professionally for you to feel happy with your progress. And I just want to tell you that there's three things that I've just said that are the key to really differentiating yourself in process. The marketplaces. Get them down the road. Don't have the conversation about now, because there's no money right now. And not only that, their life is very complicated right now. Three years down the road, everybody wants their life to be incredibly better. So get them to tell you what the picture is that they see themselves three years down the road, and then have them work back and tell you what had to happen over that three years for them to feel happy with their progress. Happy. They're the only ones who can say what they're happy. And they're the only people who can say what constitutes progress for them. Okay. And they're the expert on this. You're talking to someone, and they're the only one who knows the answer to this question. So if I'm not getting that answer from someone, I don't know what it is that I can do that they'd be willing to write a check for. And that's a big thing. Now, having said that, that's a highly individual thing. And you make your money by talking to lots of people. You make your money by talking to lots of people. But you talk to a lot of people who are really the same kind of people. Just like I talk to people, really the person that I'm talking to in strategic coach is one out of 400. We've actually done the numbers, the kind of person we would want. If you take the general population, we're talking to one out of 400 people. And over 35 years, I've really gotten to know who that one person out of 400 is. So I know what they're three things about them. I know that what really keeps them up at night, two o' clock in the morning, they can't sleep, they're really worried about something. I know their dangers. I know what gets them excited, where their sense of opportunity is, and I know totally what they feel confident about, the kinds of strengths and accomplishments they've had. And so when I'm talking to them, I'm talking about their dangers, I'm talking about their opportunities, I'm talking about their strengths. So having said that, my question three years, looking back, specifically, what dangers do you have now that have to be eliminated over the next three years? What opportunities have to be captured and what strengths do you have that need to be maximized? Because you have strengths, but they're not being maximized to the degree that you would really want to have them. For you to really be happy with your progress, you ask that question, they'll talk for two hours, and every piece of information they give you is totally valuable. They're telling you exactly what it is that you can do for them.

It's interesting, though, because I've seen people make the mistake initially when they're taking this question and they're asking people, you know, let's go forward three years from today, and what would, what would have to happen for you to be happy with our progress? Like framing it that I'm in the relationship. What, what. It's almost like, what's it going to take to get you in a car today? You know, where you're saying, in our relationship. But what you're saying, the key distinction is it's not about you at all. It's completely about them. And just whether it is in relation to whatever service you're offering.

Yeah. I mean, 99% of the people you meet were hoping to get through their life without meeting you. I mean, it's an inconvenience. It's a total inconvenience to you that you've actually come into their life. So you better be valuable to them. Yeah. And I think that that's the problem. Again, it's me centered. It's me centered, you know? Yes, it's me centered. And so we have to, you know, we have to, you know, we have to take that into consideration that it's not about us, it's about them. And the more that we can move out of our own head and into their head and understand how they're looking at the world and then lining it up with what we can actually do for them, then we have a bit a real value creation proposition.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay, so what I may do, I may grab that video in a minute or have someone else grab it. But yeah, what I wanted to do at this point was. Dean, I'm going to give you the last opportunity to ask Dan question.

It better be a good one.

Well, some something I want to say about dangers, opportunities and strengths are with the dos conversation people really they can't reach. Everyone watching has dangers, everyone watching has opportunities and everyone watching has strengths. And with I love marketing. Our job is to actually take our strength in marketing, share it with the world and allow these entrepreneurs to become basically stronger in the area of marketing so that they can reach their opportunities. And Dan, you've said it a million times that people do not reach their opportunities if they don't eliminate their dangers, real and psychological. And I think most of the things that keep people from reaching their opportunities is these dangers that are literally in their head. I can't do it. My competitors are better than me. Whatever the cool thing about the dos conversation is is it addresses one of the most important aspects of needing to sell something to somebody, market something to somebody. You got to understand the mindset of the people that you are selling to because me and Dean both very much. You being an expert in helping real estate agents as an example with their businesses, me with professional carpet and upholstery cleaners and people in the restoration, fire and flood industry. I understand the mindset of these companies people very well. I understand their dangers, their opportunities and their strengths. And people are like, well, how do you guys do what it is you do? Well, we understand them and we know how to solve many of their problems and we offer solutions. And Dan knows the DOS of entrepreneurs better than probably anyone in the world. And so what are you an expert in understanding the dos on with your clientele? That's why you need to read the book. Book the Dan Sullivan question. And it will enhance everything that you're learning from me and Dean related to before, during and after easy, lucrative and fun robotic automated marketing strategies using compelling direct response. I mean all of this. The reason we're bringing you conversations like this to Dan is not only because it's interesting and you're going to learn stuff, but also it's going to help you make more money. And I wanted to talk tie that in. So I'm going to leave the last any, any final questions you want to ask for Dan and then we're going to go Tell these. These people to go listen to more podcasts, because what else do they got to do? Right.

Exactly.

If they're not caught up.

Exactly.

I think one of the things that you were saying, the way that you're listening more than you're trying to convince somebody of something, you're saying that, you know that it's 1 out of 400 people, because you are crystal clear on who the person is that you can help. So you're more listening to see if that's the person that you can help rather than listening with the intent of turning around that objection or doing, you know, you try. You're trying to find for you a shortcut to see, really, is this the kind of person that I can actually. That we can actually work with to do something, not trying to turn them into. That's really where it gets frustrating, isn't it? If you've got, you know, what you're looking for and somebody just clearly doesn't, they almost meet it, but they're not quite it. It's a recipe for frustration, it seems like.

Yeah, I think, and this is what a lot of people don't really realize that, you know, the smaller the niche, actually, the bigger the market. In other words, when you become a total expert, you know, I mean, in the scheme of things, Dean, when I look at your business and when I look at yours, Joe, you know, there's 7 billion people on the planet, but really the number of people that you actually need for your main business and the real estate business is in the hundreds or low thousands.

Right.

So out of 7 billion people. So you don't have to know everything about the 7 billion. You have to know something really, very, very specific. You have to be an expert. And what I'm just looking for is that entrepreneur who always, when they get to one level of success, always thinks, well, what's the next level for me? And it's not about lifestyle for them. It's not about. It's not about stopping the game. They're always moving on to the next game. And I can tell, you know, almost now, within very few minutes, just by conversing with someone, if that's one of the people. And if they're not, I can. You can just tell by their language, you can almost tell by their body posture that this is a player. And that's all I'm looking for, is players. So I think that that's what a lot of people when they, you know, I mean, we all say that when we first get into big business, our main marketing Strategy is called the mirror test. You know, you put a mirror under their nostrils and if it fogs up, they're qualified as a prospect. But the real wisdom that, you know, I think really marks your progress, you know, when, because I know both of your histories really well, is that every year you're taking what started off as a huge circle and you're making that circle smaller and smaller and smaller, but that circle becomes more powerful in terms of the value that you can actually create for a very select group of people.

Awesome. Well, you know, so what I want to say is, you know, this was kind of an interesting impromptu video because Dan was just coming over to hang out with us and Dean was here and I said, hey, let's sit down and do a video. And this video got passed through a couple of people holding it in the back during this. So in case you're noticing different angles, that is the reason being because this was not a prepared interview. We're just like, hey, let's just sit down and talk to the I love marketing crowd. So those of you that are part of ilovemarketing.com or you probably wouldn't be watching this video and if you happen to find this video elsewhere, go to ilovemarketing.com and subscribe to the Ilove marketing show. You can find it on itunes all also and give us your comments of what you thought about Dan Sullivan, what you thought about Dean. Who you like better, me or Dean? That sort of stuff. We're really here to support and help you become a better marketer and become a better entrepreneur. So go to strategiccoach.com if you're a highly successful entrepreneur, you make at least a minimum income of $100,000 a year or more. Strategic Coach is phenomenal. Both Dean and I highly, highly recommend it will change your life. And if you don't fit those qualifications and I would still recommend you go to Strategic Coach and pick up some of their knowledge products. There's many books like the Gap. The Gap is phenomenal. We didn't talk about that. But go buy it. Just go buy it. And the laws of lifetime growth. The Dan Sullivan question, things like this, there's a lot of knowledge that you can consume and learn. This is some of the best in the world. And trust me, me and Dean have spent it enormous amount on our marketing education. And nothing from Strategic Coach will ever cost you anything. It will make you money. It will allow you to become a more successful focused entrepreneur. It's totally built around value creation. One of the greatest things I love about Dan, and I heard him say this. I quote it all the time is money earned ethically is a byproduct of value creation. And all the marketing that we teach is really to help get value out into the. The world. So, on behalf of me and Dean, we want to thank you for watching this. And, Dan, I want to thank you for taking the time to. Absolutely. Yeah. So give us your comments. And I feel smarter just. You should. I mean.

Yeah.

And you didn't. Rightfully.

So.

So anyway, say something smart, Dean. And then we're gonna. We're gonna show. That's it.

That's all we got. That's what I was trying to say.

Okay.

Cool. All right. See you guys.