Everything Men Know About Women: An Interview with Cindy Cashman, Dr. Cheri Ong, and Joe Polish - I Love Marketing Episode #450

The reason why it's so brilliant is the power of a headline and the power of getting someone's attention. And it doesn't matter how good the book is inside, if people don't pick it up, if people don't want to buy it, if they're not compelled. So like my friend Dean Jackson says, a compelling offer is 10 times more powerful than a convincing argument.

If you'd like to join world renowned entrepreneurs at the next genius network event or want to learn more about genius network, go to geniusnetwork.com so I'm gonna.

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Okay.

To see his reaction to it.

Oh, yeah, I see.

I see all that.

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All right. Hello, everyone.

I'm here kind of sitting in the living room with Cindy Cashman and Dr. Shirian, and we're going to talk about everything men know about women. Got a couple different covers here. This is the 30th anniversary edition. So, Cindy, so you're kind of behind all the marketing and all this sort of stuff. And basically, I think this is a perfect example of how to utilize effective marketing because some people spend their whole life writing a book. They do and don't sell any of them. I've written five books. My latest book is called what's in it for them? Which, as we're doing this, is number four on the wall street journal.

Yes.

So thank you. Now, you actually had a major bestseller with this book. This book generated millions of dollars for you. And why don't you talk about it before I tell everyone why it's such an important book from what you've written inside.

Oh, okay. And I do want to show that this is now the seventh cover. And actually in 2023 will be the 35th anniversary edition. So who would have thought that something like this would have gone so far? So if you want a quick story, I was selling real estate at the time in southern California, and I hated it. And, you know, and I thought, I want to do something fun. And so when this came along and I thought, you know what? I'm going to put real estate and sell this. Everybody said I was crazy. Like, you're absolutely crazy. And in three years, I went from being called crazy to brilliant. That's not bad for someone who didn't learn to read until I was 21 years old.

Well, you know what's funny is you can be absolutely crazy, but then if you pull something off, you're going to be brilliant.

Yes.

Because, I mean, I'll tell you, I know a lot of very successful people that are batshit crazy.

So.

Yeah, there's. This is great, though.

Yeah.

Well, let me make. Okay, since. Well, I'll get to you in a moment. Since you're one of the top vaginal plastic surgeons in the world, that's why you're sitting here today as the doctor that. To credentialize this. So we're going to talk about different ideas on that.

Anyway. Yeah. So, you know, I applied to elf, and this is before Easy Lucrative Fun. Oh, I applied the elf Easy Lucrative Fun. And this is before I met Joe. And even though I think we've known each other now for 25 years or something like that, this came. I started in 1988, and to me, it had to be fun. I basically asked myself two questions. Who is my market? And where do they go? That's it. I kept it simple. How much easier can it be than that? And did you want to show them what's inside? Yeah. Yeah.

So here's the thing about this book. So there's. There's a lot of depth of knowledge and experience that's been shared.

And also it's been translated to multiple languages.

Yes.

Yes, it has.

How many? Oh, at least 10.

Okay, so look at it. So here it is. The whole book is blank. And here's. You know, now people usually laugh and stuff. And it's funny because it is, I mean. And true story.

Yeah.

I bought this book during a time where this headline, it was sitting on the counter of a bookstore in Mesa, Arizona. It was a bookstore that was on the corner. It was like a independent bookstore. And they're long gone, out of business. I mean, but it had to be early 90s. And it was on the counter and I was buying a couple of other books, and I literally just bought it, point of purchase, and put it down, didn't open it up. And then when I get into my car, I'm like, just dying to be like, what is in this? And I flipped through it and I'm like, oh, my God. I was, like, tricked, right? But I loved it. It was so. This is, you know, before I knew you. And I just thought, oh, my God, this is so freaking hysterical. Then a few years later, I actually meet you when we both did an event. Speaking of all things And. And so that's kind of the deal. But the reason why it's so brilliant is the power of a headline and the power of getting someone's attention. And it doesn't matter how good the book is inside, if people don't pick it up, if people don't want to buy it, if they're not compelled. So, like my friend Dean Jackson says, a compelling offer is 10 times more powerful than a convincing argument. And there's something about this headline that just speaks to it. And. Yeah. So I'd love for you to kind of share some of the. How'd you come up with this? What. I mean, did you just.

Well, I was in charge of marketing, you know. So basically, when I asked myself the two questions, who's my market? Which the answer is obvious. Women. The second question, where do they go? So again, we're going back to 1988, and the answer is clothing stores. So I did not treat this as a book. I saw it as a gift item. So I started calling clothing stores, and 99% of all my sales was done over the phone. I would call them and say, I got a gift item. And I asked them, what do I need to do in order to sell to your store? And that's how I learned. And they would say, well, I said, can I put it on the Christmas stocking stuffer table? And what do you mean? So if you go to a lot of books, they'll say, okay, if you sell a book, you got to offer 50% or whatever it was. And they told me, and I said, well, if I am able to give to you for that, is there any. There's no returns. And then also, they. I only sold by the case. And at one time, I had four different printers lined up, and I had. My largest thing was 80,000 printed at one time. So there was a time I was doing 10,000 or 10,000 a day for a while, and I was number one on Ingram all the time. Ingram is a huge book distributor. And that's funny in itself, because then when Barnes and Noble called, they called and wanted to know, and they thought there was something in there. And then Barnes and Noble took it on.

Yeah, because. Well, first they rejected it. Right. But no, no, no.

Never even sent it to them. No, because I didn't even want it to go in bookstores. Why would I want it to compete against 100,000 titles when you can go into the clothing store and it was the only thing there? And they would buy them and put them. Like something different. Yeah, something different. And it is a gift item. And it was interesting because at Christmas time, women would buy them by the dozens to give away as a gift. It's inexpensive. And if you want to get a laugh, go to Amazon. You can put in my name, Cindy Cashman, and just read the reviews. You'll laugh because, you know, one guy said, listen, I've been married 40 years and I still don't understand her. You know, there's so much truth to it. And most. I would say 90. There's. Most people have a great sense of humor. And then in Amazon, you'll get one that will say, don't they know there's nothing in the book?

Right.

They sent me a bad copy. You know, whatever.

That is funny.

But so I sold to clothing stores, and that was my really, my big thing. And then one of my corner stories is, or funniest is I jump on my travel lane in the morning, and I would say, who can I have fun selling to today? Because selling is fun for me. It's because I know they're gonna have fun. They're gonna get laughs out of it. And then the idea popped in to call the United States Marines.

Wow.

Yeah, I know. Crazy, right? And so I get in the phone book. So at this time, I'm in Southern California, and I called Camp Pendleton. And the guy answered. It was a guy in the buying and the book buying department. Or gift buying? Book buying. And he said, listen, lady, you have less than 1% chance. You're a one book publisher. We don't buy from a one book publisher. And I said, I'll take the 1% chance. I know you know where this is going. So I went in there and I show him the book, and he literally said, I don't get it. He literally. And he said, is it a notebook? And nobody had ever said that. Nobody had ever sent it to me before. So I was so surprised. And I said, well, please show it to your boss. Well, a couple days later, I get a call, and he said, I cannot believe it. We're buying the book for the PXs. My boss is a woman.

That is so good. That is so good. Well, okay. So the bottom line is, you know, the book ended up taking off, and it's become a viral thing. But before that, you had to sell it. I mean, you had to contact people. You had to convince people it was such a new thing. And I think a lot of people don't have the stamina or the sales ability or the wherewithal or the, you know, awareness to think who should it go to? Who's my target market? Where do I reach them? So you're. Did you also go in, like, hair and nail salons and stuff, or was it mostly clothing stores?

Almost all clothing stores.

Okay.

Although I did buy a booth one time at a hair and nail convention, and it was not really my market as much as just the clothing stores with the big gifts table.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Okay. Well, I don't want to pass over this one. You only sold it in cases, so.

Yes.

When people would say, I'll take one or ten, you're like, what was the smallest?

Well, it depends on who the printer was, but most of the time it was 96, 98, or 100, depending on.

Which printer I use. So whenever you made us. So you would first convince them to buy the book and you would say, oh, you can only buy it in a case.

Correct. And I said, all you have to do is find 10 women friends or even eight women, five women friends, and you get them all sold.

Okay. So that is a really important distinction about selling is you, you know, because I often think of marketing as just bundling and unbundling packaging, unique packaging, how you, you know, it's present, it's presentation, packaging, offer, target market, all of these different elements that go into it. So now this is an idea that people have knocked off or attempted.

Oh, yeah, many have.

Yeah. With different titles and stuff.

So even the same title, if you go to Amazon, there'll be three or four with the same title.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Okay.

So what I'd like to say, for purposes of Dr. Ong here, is that she is testing different titles right now. Everything men know about vaginas, because she is a vaginal plastic surgeon, does labiaplasty. Does a bunch of other stuff, too. She does integrative health and whatnot, but that is what she is most known for, and that's where people seek her out. So I wanted to hear your advice on. In an environment like a plastic surgeon and a doctor using this kind of like a business card to be funny, because most of her patients are going to find it hysterical. Guys, though, on the other hand, what would be the difference in your mind just between a male audience or a female audience for a topic like that?

Well, I think, you know, it's a good door opener. And actually, you know, there's many stories too, where I get called. And they used it, the blank book, as a door opener. So it's a good calling card whether you use everything men know about vagina are everything men Want to know about vaginas or think they should know. And I even. You know, you could even go the other way. Everything men want to know or think they want to know. And it'd be empty. And they get. Thing is to brainstorm different titles. And then I mentioned two earlier to do one that actually has some education. Like eight things people should know about vaginas. And I see her on talk shows all over.

Oh, totally, totally, totally.

You know, if you want to do an educational one and it doesn't have to be real thick, it can be just, you know, simple and. But educational.

Her website is on Institute ong institute.com if you just want to check it out. But in terms of.

It'd be interesting if I had two.

Versions of the book.

I'm just thinking out loud here. But you have. One version is a really thin book, which is everything men know about vaginas. And then the other one just really thick. Everything women know about vaginas.

Right.

You can have both. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So. So in terms of what advice would you give to people that have an idea they have, but they don't bring it to fruition because they don't either know how to sell, Learn how to sell. They're scared. They don't take initiative because you're always doing crazy stuff. I mean, you kind of.

I mean, your.

Your whole thing is let me try stuff.

And.

And I don't think you have like some massive fear of failure or making mistakes. Not that we all don't have a fear. It's not that your of it. And it's not that you're reckless. It's just, you know, that it's. In a lot of ways, I mean, you had to go through a lot of rejection in the very beginning of people saying dumb idea. I don't get right in it.

That's true.

So how would. How did you mentally, you know, just do this? Like in a way that you could. People watching could be like, yeah, yeah.

Well, in the 70s, I really started listening to zig Ziglar. And Zig Ziglar was huge for me. And I think. I'm pretty sure I learned it from Zig. But he said if you don't ask, you automatically have a note. So that one thing just changed it all. In fact, I'll share a story with it. So I had sent a copy of the blank book to a company out east. And I would call her. Her name was Ann Marie. And I would call her up and say, ann Marie, what do you think? And she Kept saying, I don't know. And then six months, every. I would keep calling her. And then after six months, I said, okay, Ann Marie, believe it or not, I can take a no, and I can easily take a yes. It's this. I don't know, that I'm having a hard time with. What do I need to do to be able to sell to your company? And I gave her permission to teach me. And she said, well, we want one just with our company on it. We want one with our president's name on it. We don't want your company, your name, anywhere on it. I said, fabulous. I said, okay, I will FedEx you something overnight. You'll have it 10am tomorrow morning. I literally got out my son's crayons, and I came up with a book for them. Everything Men Know About Intimacy and had their logo or, you know, had a logo, their company name, their app address and everything. I FedExed it to her, and I called her the next day about 10:30. And she says, we love it. And I normally will ask people, how many copies do you think their first order was?

How big's the company?

Well, I'm not even sure how big, but the first order was 25,000.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. And so that was just asking one question. And I do love asking questions. Yeah, you can put me down anywhere, and I will know people within minutes. I love asking questions. Get to know people.

That's funny. I was just talking with Shuri yesterday about that. Like, I. Because I'm super curious. I mean, maybe the people that become the marketers are the ones that are always inquisitive. And also because I. It's Socratic selling, right? I mean, you literally sell by asking questions, not by trying to convince people.

Right, Exactly. I wanted to know what's in it.

Basically.

What's in it for them. What can I do to have your. Exactly.

What you did is what's in it for them Questions. Exactly.

Which is Joe's question. Fabulous new book. Yes. And so by asking questions. And this is really funny, too, I got a lot of funny stories. So one time I was told, you need to have reps. So, okay, I hire. I had, like, I don't know, 85 reps or something, and they're given territories. Oh, God. I'm sharing some really funny secrets here or some funny things. And. And one of the guys, I wanted him to get into a huge gift store, and he calls me up, he says, no. They said, no. And I said to him, I said, can you tell me who you talk to. And he said, yes. And he told me, and I said, okay. Are you okay if I call? Because it was his territory. I said, sure. So I called and made sure I did not talk to that person. I got someone else. And their first order was, I don't know, something like between 8 and 12,000. But I sold in volume. I definitely, definitely sold major volume. And it's easy for me because when I came out with another book and I called one store in Minnesota and she said, no, we're gonna pass. And then I called the store in California and this was a clothing store, and they did, I think it was 144, to see what their sell through would be. And that's one of the few. Well, actually, I saw it by the cases, but they wanted to break it down. And they called me at the end of the week, the next week. You know how they can predict numbers, what something's gonna do? And they said they had a 48% sell through, which is huge. That means in that weekend they sold 48%. So then I called the first store in Minnesota and I said, I've got additional news to tell you. This store in California sold, had a 48% sell through. And based on that, their first order was like 7200 books.

Wow. Wow.

So, you know, I don't believe in bugging people, but you can ask for additional information or once you have a different additional information, share it with them.

Yes. Yes. Well, I don't even know if this is accurate because I heard it. I was listening to an audio. I can't remember what book it was talking about. How many books are published every year, Business books and stuff and something like. Yeah, I mean, there's a quarter million that have already that are on business books that are just kind of out there. Probably a lot more. And I don't know how many thousands are. New ones come out every year. But I think the stat was something like 90% or only the average don't sell more than 70 books. And I'm like, is that even possible? Is it that low? But whatever the number is, don't quote me on any of this because I don't know. I mean, you probably do a search and find this out, but it's dismal. And you know what I always go back to when I'm talking to someone, they're like, I need to write a book. Who's it for? You know, it's for everyone. Or what's the title? Well, not sure yet, but it's going to teach people. Well, it's like, nail the title, right? You know, you can nail the book, but if you don't nail the title, if you don't nail the subtitle, if you're not clear of who you're writing to, you are dramatically limiting your chances. And also, I mean, you didn't write anything, okay? You wrote a headline, right? And then you went out and you sold the concept because you were, you know, you're not trying to educate anyone. You're trying to make people laugh.

Yes, I hear my book.

Right. So that's the whole elf thing. We were talking earlier that, you know, you built this elf life, which is one of my acronyms for you can have an elf business, easy, lucrative, and fun, or a half business, which is hard, annoying, lame, and frustrating. And that's a big, big part of what I write about in my new book. You know, the point is, is like, bring some fun, bring some humor, but be creative, because more than anything, it's just creative.

Yes.

And what else did I not ask?

And this is not a new idea. When I did some research, I think I found back in 1919, someone did something. Everything the Pope knows about sex. So, you know, and you'll see these all the time. Everything's, you know, somebody knows about golf. Everybody. Everything somebody knows. They do custom books and everything else. So. So there's a lot of blank books out there. It's the headline that was. That made this one a lot more famous.

Is this person real?

It's a synonym. What were.

What were the things that you learned from the different covers? Would it make a difference? Just obviously the headlines the same.

Well, the very first one was a white cover. And then when I sold the rights out to Andrews and McNeil in 1995, and that's who the publisher is now, Andrews McNeill Publishing. And they.

They publish a cover.

They. They came out with a new book when they bought it. And then when I approached them about doing the 20th anniversary, 25th, 30th anniversary. That's why there were so many different covers.

Okay.

And it's just, you know, to bring that. And then I think on this 30th one I had down there expanding, one.

Of them was, this one's funny. This one says new, newly revised and updated.

Exactly.

I mean, how.

And this is.

I'm looking at this one because this is one of the first ones you gave me. I have the very original. I still have that white one.

Yeah, you should have all of them.

Yeah, I think I do. I think you show me most of them. But it says Joe. A timeless message in its simplest form.

That's true.

Page 27 is really good. So it's awesome. So let's ask you some questions, Dr. Ong. So when people go in, most. Well, I know you see both men and women, but men, it's mostly for integrative health. And you do IVs, vitamins, you're an expert in peptides, exosomes, anthropology. You also gave a great 10 minute talk at Genius Network about speed healing. So if you want to watch speed healing. Yeah. You can find it on YouTube. Just type in Dr. Cherie Ong, c h e r I ong o n g or oninstitute dot com. You're based in Scottsdale, Arizona. So what are some of the things that patients are afraid to talk to a doctor about? Because you're in a area that brings up a lot of probably insecurities and sensitivities and oftentimes that I would imagine a lot of your patients are not talking to any plastic surgeon, but vaginal. I mean, you're talking about a woman's private area. So what are some of the things that you encounter that are obstacles for people that in writing your books and in doing the things that you're doing, you have to overcome in terms of mindset or concerns?

So I think that the vagina is a very intimate place for a lot of women. And I've had women wait seven to 10 years. Ever had a woman since the teenage years thinking about having some kind of procedure done but just being so afraid to even pick up the phone and talk to anyone? I think that is the biggest thing about. They feel that something from, from that standpoint doesn't seem important enough. And, and so that's, I think the biggest obstacle for women is they'll go online, they'll search for everything. There's not much online, but they still want to speak to a person. And they can't really speak to their husbands or the significant others or they speak to their moms is probably the closest person they have or their friends. But because the topic is really hard for them to find someone to speak about, about the topic. And really the concept is just I think shame. I think there's a lot of fear about what if and what's going on. And you feel that they don't really deserve to have a procedure done to make it look better. So that's what I find over time.

Okay, so now we get. When I'm with you and people are asking questions about that. There's lots of, you know, I'm trying to think between men and women. It's so interesting when people know what she does. It's completely different about what a guy would say and women are really interested. And your whole thing is most men don't even notice.

Like, yeah, most men don't really care what it looks like.

Right.

Most men.

Now, now you do both functional and cosmetic. Right.

So.

And I know if someone ever looks up your reviews, you are known as a very compassionate, very good at listening. I wrote about you in my book about. You have a listening method of how you pay attention.

Active listening.

Yes, yes, yes. And you listen. So what advice would you give to women and men out there that are watching this on how to better listen and how to be safe and what to look for? If you're going to any sort of doctor, it could be plastic surgery, whatever. Because I know that you've actually recommended to some people that maybe this isn't the right thing for you and to really think about it, because I know you very much care about. You're not just like, hey, let's just do surgery on anyone because they want it. And I know a lot of people in the quote unquote, you know, health professions, it's a money grab. Yeah.

So I think active listening is very important. And most people that go see doctors, doctors tend to overwhelm them with too much stuff, too much medical stuff. And it just like goes on and on and on. And usually when someone see a doctor, they have a medical problem, they want something solved. And the doctors will go on all this terminology and they go out and they're confused. So I think it's really important for what I try to do is try to make it really simple. And I try to speak to them at a level that's simple to understand. And really, first of all, the first step is really listening to what they're saying. And if you're trying to take notes, you're trying to look at your medical records, it's really hard to be present, to really look at the person, have a conversation with them, and really figure out what they want. And then the second thing is once you understand what they want, look from their lens of what would be easy for them to get them there. And then letting them know these are the steps that you can take in order to get you to where you want. And then these are the options to think about, because there is more than one answer, more than one option for a lot of things. And once you can determine that the patient really feels that part of the conversation. And it's not a doctor saying you have to do this because there's never one thing that you absolutely have to do unless you have a life threatening problem. So I think active listening is important on both parts. The patient's scared if they have a medical condition and they don't listen to a lot of the things, they may get maybe 20% of it. If you try to throw too much stuff at them, they get overwhelmed. And so really understanding where to meet them at. And it might require another visit or follow up documents or just stuff they can go home and read about.

Yeah.

Okay, so now on this particular topic of using humor in a particular area, here's my take on it. You can break down a lot of walls with humor.

Yes.

Where does it cross the line? Where you know, because a lot of people that do like blank books and stuff will do. Presidents, politicians, there's one on each side. I'm this party, I'm that party. And so, you know, what advice would you give for, you know, testing your marketing ideas? Because did you, I mean, when you first started this, was it successful right out of the gate or did you have to go through it? What was it?

Ye, yeah, it took off right away.

That's good. And did it take off because of what was the first thing?

I think it's because I had such clarity on who my market was and where they go. And I think it was such a shocker to go into a clothing store and see at the checkout a book. And it does grab your attention. Okay, well, what does everything men know about women? And so it was a point of purchase and it did take off right away because women loved it and bought them by a lot.

Yeah.

And. And I also kept the price inexpensive. So when it first came out, the retail price was 295.

Right.

That's under that you can buy a card. I mean, nowadays cards can be $6. And I think the latest price on these are 5.99.

Yes.

You know, that's still the price of a car.

Yeah.

If you go into a nice store, I mean, you know, you can. There's cards you can buy. Well, would you rather give them a card or something like this? So the price is inexpensive. And I do remember in the early 90s when I called and the one of the stores, the buyer said to me, but we're going through a recession or whatever it was, and I said, oh, that's okay. They still want to buy something and they're going to people still want to buy people gifts, but they're going to buy more in expense in gifts that are not as of expensive. And she said, oh, yeah, you're right. And she continued to buy a whole bunch. So I don't. I didn't argue with her. I agreed with her. Yeah. Because in the early 90s, I think we were. I don't even know. I was so busy, you know, selling, because that's what I had fun doing that I didn't even know what was really going on. I just, you know, when someone said to me, hey, that's going on. Okay, it is. But they're gonna. People still want to buy gifts.

I love it. I love it. Well, here's the thing, and I'm thinking of this right off the cuff. So we have this thing in Genius Network where my members, if they do business with each other, and I announced I'd like to start doing this, and it just got a. Like, the whole audience just applauded this idea. And I said, if you come up with an idea that you learn from us here or you exchange money with each other, 1% on each side. Honor system goes to Genius Recovery. And we've just gotten a couple of big checks for one for 10,000 bucks and another one for a thousand in the last week for Genius Recovery because of people, they even went back and retroactively paid because, you know, like, you'd have to do a lot in order to have 1%. $10,000. It's like a million bucks. Right. But I have members that have made a lot of money, and for something like this, if you end up taking an idea that you've learned here today and it works, give. Send 1% to Genius Recovery. Or do you have a foundation or charity or something you would like? Or how do people follow you? I mean, I like to give out your content because you have other books too. You don't just have blank books.

Although that is the. You know, this is what I'm most famous for. But I do have books with writing in them. And you mentioned earlier that people can spend their life writing a book with words in it and hardly sell anything.

Exactly.

It tells you about the market marketplace wanted. But my website is just. Yeah, this one. Cindycashman.com. there's C A S H M A N. There's stuff on there.

Is that really your name?

It's my maiden name. It's my real name.

Cash.

Yeah. Cindy C I N D Y. And then Cash man. It is my real name.

I'm gonna go grab It I found.

Out that I'm related to Nellie Cashman, the angel of Tombstone from the 1880s.

I'm just gonna get up in the middle of this video, just show people a couple of things as I'm yelling in the background here. Hopefully. I know we're not even mic'd up here, so I apologize in advance for not having like some. We're doing this off the cuff, so be happy. But you know, here's one thing I do with books. So this is life gives to the giver. And I give this book away for free@joe'sfreebook.com and what a lot of people that give away free books do is they give away a crappy book. Then they put people into an upsell funnel that just hammers them and tries to sell them. Supposedly the good stuff where I just give people a real good book. And then they sign up on my email and I send out an email at least three times a week that's just really value packed. And then the bottom part is, you know, P.S. here's, you know, three or four ways that we can help you and not here's what we're going to sell you, but how we can help you, right? And people, you know, sometimes will join junior sellers, sometimes they'll buy my other books, but that's a good idea on how to use a book as a lead generator. Now this is my newest book, which is what's in it for them. And this is a book on how to win the right friends and employees, influence the right people. And so you're, you know, from as much as I've known you, you follow this philosophy of what's in it for them. You think about what does the person want, not what do I want. And I honestly think that's where the success comes from. Because I think people that fail is like, I got something to sell, I think everyone needs it. You know, like people should just buy it. And there's like this sense of entitlement, not this sense of enrollment. And so you, you have done a really good job of enrolling people into your, your business. Now for shereed, how do you think you're going to develop and use something like this? Because I don't know how quickly I'm going to put this video out. Might just do it right away and see how it evolves. But I wanted to have this conversation for people. I mean, what's really happening here is we're just brainstorming and I thought it'd be really good just to tell this Story. I bet a lot of people out there would get a ton of value out of it. This would inspire you to think of some creative way seed that you have that has not yet been watered and nurtured. Cindy has been enormously successful and you're very. You're a very successful, you know, surgeon and you help a lot of people. So how. What's going through your head right now about how you can see using this?

So I'm first of all fascinated with the book concept and because it's just so simple as you said, but it reaches so many people in a different way. So what I got from just your conversation is, you know, really thinking about the audience and how you can get to the people that you're trying to target. And this is a book that is cats, catches someone's attention. You can place it in strategic places like you said, uses clothing stores, whether the places that the market that I'm trying to target would go and buy gifts for their friends, etc. Sounds like the target market is a woman. So really understanding that avatar as much as I can and then being able to test the title. And one thing that came in my head right now is why don't test it on the people already, all my clients, and just ask them. These are the titles I'm thinking about. Have them vote on it and just test it that way. So those are the. My takeaways just from your conversation.

Yeah, I've always loved the line. In the. In the marketing world it's called. In the real world, it's called failure. In the marketing world, it's called testing, you know, because, yeah, you're going to. Things aren't going to work. And so you don't, you know, you don't know what works until you put it out there. So that is. Is there anything else I should have asked you something we haven't covered that we should. I mean, I know there's a number.

Oh, you know, somebody said to me, have you ever figured out the true value of a book? You know, all the doors that it's open? You know, it opens a lot of doors. It's a nice topic to get people laughing. And it's true what Joe said earlier, laughter is like the best best if you can get people laughing. And it was so funny because I mentioned I did some other books and one of them I was doing radio interviews on humor book. It's been discontinued now, but the radio guy, KABC out of la, and I had never done radio interviews and I don't really Listen to much because I love being in silence. And the guy said, you're laughing at your own jokes. And I said, I know I'm laughing because I can't believe you're not laughing. And he said, the phone started ringing off the hook. You know, they wanted me back on.

Oh, that's great.

But it was really funny because I'm laughing. Like, how can you not be laughing? How can you not think this isn't funny? You know? But it is a profound message in its simplest form. But it's also a way that people can use it to start a conversation. And I love what you said about act listening, because active listening is so important in any relationship.

You know, if. Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be a good way to actually meet someone and you just put your phone number and contact him. Yeah, it could work really well for men and women alike.

Would you be willing to accept, like, a suggestion?

Oh, sure.

Would you be willing to, like, record an audiobook?

You know, actually somebody. There is a Kindle version of this.

Is there really a Kindle version?

Yes, there is a Kindle version. And years ago when the VHS was in, somebody had to come up with something with the vhs. And the guy is just saying, okay, tell me your problem and just pretend he's writing down. I mean, it was really funny. The video therapist or something like that. I was going to do everything women know about men and I was going to make it real thick and super small writing. Because don't you agree we do kind of know a lot more about men than what men know about us? Yes, I think a lot of. At least that we think you think you do.

Yeah.

I'm just gonna be laughing and go along with it, let you guys think whatever you want.

So.

But I've been mostly semi retired, but I love having fun. I love traveling and exploring. And I do my. What I'm most proud of is I love listening, trusting, and acting on my intuition. So. And. And some intuitive coaching. That's what I like the most right now.

Awesome. Awesome. So you can find more about. You can be hired for a coach right now.

Okay.

So check out her website. Cindy cashman.

Yeah. Cindy Ca.

Yep.com and Dr. Sheree ong@onginstitute.com and wherever you listen to this, watch it. If you. If you have some entrepreneur or someone that has some idea and they just haven't pulled the trigger and you think they need to just hear a success story, then share this video. And if you use it and apply it in any way and I hope you do make some money and then send, you know, some little tiny little donation to geniusrecovery.org and if you have anyone that struggles with addiction, like even my book, proceeds of this go to Genius Recovery. And the goal is to help change the global conversation about how people view and treat addicts with compassion instead of judgment and find the best forms of treatment that have efficacy and share with the world. Because I want to be a hero to people that struggle with addictions and entrepreneurs that are just out there trying to create value in the world and hopefully creating some elf easy, lucrative and fun. So I hope this got you thinking about ELF and your creative juices going and you can become a millionaire with a blank book if you understand your audience and you know how to get the right message today. Yes, exactly. It's been a fun chat.

Thank you.

Peace out.

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