Expert Tips on How To Present Confidently To Any Size Audience - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson Episode #236

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish. And this is the I love marketing podcast, Everybody.

It's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

And first off, welcome everyone to the new year. Right, Dean.

Happy New Year. This is it.

Yeah, we're here, we're here. Whatever time you're listening to this, even if it's in 2026, we want to wish you a happy new year even, because I know these episodes will last forever. Well, this is going to be really cool. And this is a great episode to start in the beginning of the year because it's got one of my favorite people on the planet joining us as a guest and her name is Victoria Lab. Are you there, Victoria?

I am right here, Joe.

Awesome.

Well, I'm in.

I'm in Arizona. You're in New York. Victoria and Dean, where are you?

I'm in Florida. Windsor Haven, Florida.

Okay, great, great. Well, we're going to do an episode that is so critical to being effective with your marketing and that is how do you actually communicate? How do you present yourself? How do you package yourself? And so Victoria is an expert and I'm going to literally read a bio of who she is for people that have never heard of her. They'll know who she is and what she does and then we'll get into some question. So this will be the only part of the episode where I read anything. So prepare yourself and if you're doing anything that's distracting you, listen to this right now and stay with us here. Her name is Victoria labaume. Performance coach and performing artist Victoria labaume transforms elite leaders and influencers communication skills so they can rock it on stage, on camera and in life. She's the strategic performance guide to leading entrepreneurs, New York Times best selling authors, C suite executives, and top teams at dozens of companies including Starbucks, Microsoft, IBM, New York Life Insurance and PayPal. Victoria has helped her clients win contracts worth 400 million, deliver critical presentations with billions of dollars on the line, create standout PBS specials, craft landmark TEDx talks, rock their launch videos and live streams, and knock it out of the park for audiences ranging from 1 to 17,000. As a member of the speaker hall of fame and founder of the throughline, Wrist forward and rock the room, Victoria served as a featured keynote speaker on some of the world's largest stages. She offers uncommon perspectives and insights developed from two decades of professional show business experience. Performances of her One Woman shows at theaters across the U.S. cameos on HBO's Sex and the City, Caroline's on Broadway, 27 commercials including a Super bowl spot, a TV special with Robert De Niro and Harvey Keitel, and a feature role in a documentary by an Academy Award winning director. Victoria. Victoria is known as well for her awesome live events, VIP one on one sessions and complete online courses, helping people express their hidden genius and deliver their message with the unexpected twist that makes it their own and distinguishes their brand. Yeah, I mean, it's awesome. And I can also speak from experience because I've actually paid to go to one of Victoria's literally small group workshops. It's not cheap, but it's very powerful and it's transformative. And some of the best speakers on the planet have learned from Victoria. And she has many people that are genius network members, including JJ Virgin and Mike Koenig and Lisa Sasevich and a whole variety of people that have, that are already incredible speakers that go to Victoria to learn what it is they do. So go ahead, Dean.

Well, when we talked about getting ready for the, the big event in Toronto that you and I were doing, we were speaking to 5,000 people and we were talking about getting ready and getting everything prepared and how Victoria was one of the people that we were working with on getting all ready for that talk. So people might remember we were talking about working with Victoria then. So it's exciting to have her here today.

Yes, exactly. So, Victoria, enough of me talking about you, let's have you talk about you. So for anything I didn't cover and for people not familiar with you, I mean, that's your bio. How would you describe what you really do and who you really are? I mean, when it comes down to it, what do you teach people how to do? And that's what we're going to actually teach some people today and share with them some mindset stuff. And we got a whole list of questions for you. But how would you describe you?

Yeah, the answer I often give is that I help people deliver their message with impact and influence and with the unexpected twist that makes it their own and distinguishes their brand. And I know that was at the end of the bio you read. And I say that because part of what I'm really after is helping people express who they are authentically and in a way that really lands their point.

Great, great. So, Dean, I'll let you go first and then I've got a whole bunch of questions for Victoria. Or maybe just a couple. It depends on.

Well, I think, you know, it was funny when you, I was listening to Joe talking about your, your bio and helping people with audiences ranging from 1 to 17,000 and I was wondering when you first, you know, your first talk that you ever did, how many people were you speaking to? Do you remember that, that moment? Do you remember your very first thought?

You know, it's so funny because a memory just came flashing into my mind that I have not thought about in a long time. And it's actually when I was in fifth grade and it was the first time I did a performance and felt the audience completely with me and I had this buzz and I thought this is really fun. And it was a little magic show I'd done as part of the fifth grade talent show. But I remember looking out in the auditorium, the school, there was a first level and there was a balcony and I finished this little trick that was not much, but the audience oohed and ah, they laughed and they applauded. And I thought this, this could be my future.

So. So I mean, isn't that amazing how that young you knew right away? That's so funny. I mean, you know, it's. I asked about your first because when you, you know, when you do one of the things that people always ask who have not spoken in front of thousands of people, they always ask, well, what's. Wow, what's it like? You get nervous. Scary. And I remember the very first time that I spoke to an audience, I did a home buyer workshop. I was a real estate agent in Toronto and I did a home buyer class and I think there were 16 people there. And I remember being, you know, very nervous about that. Then after doing a lot of those, you know, it just became this natural thing and I started then speaking to bigger groups and hundreds of people and a thousand people. And it's. But it all starts somewhere. And it's funny how when Joe was saying that for audiences of 1 to 17,000 people have this misconception maybe that being a public speaker or means you're only speaking to, you know, big audiences. But that's not really what presentation authenticity is about, is it?

That's exactly right. So when I work with people, they might have a presentation to just one person or two or five in a decision making situation. I do want to circle back to one thing you said, Dean, which was so interesting about knowing who I was when I was in fifth grade. And the truth of the matter is I didn't. And this is a theme through everything that I do. I think we find it as we go. I think as I say, we risk forward and we keep trying different ideas out. And so I think there are a lot of people who sort of set a goal and go towards it. And that's fantastic. And I think for many of us, we find our way.

Way.

And we find our way a little through meandering, and it's not always a clear path, and that's part of this throughline theme I have. But ultimately, we find it through trial and error.

Equal. Sorry, Joe. Go ahead. Can you guys hear?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, you were out for a moment.

Okay, that's really weird. I'm sitting there eating raspberries. I'm going to tell you something for all our listeners backstage here. I'm sitting here eating raspberries, and I was like, you know, I want to eat these raspberries. It's probably not. Victoria would probably slap them out of my hands if she saw me doing this. So I tried to hit the mute button. And for some reason, when I. When I go to do it and it still says mute, it's weird. It's like, even says some.

Like, anyway, I think you should eat.

Raspberries through the whole interview. I think it'd be awesome.

I was going to ask you here. I'm going to eat one right now. Tell me if you guys can hear my teeth hitting the seats.

Hold on.

I see anyone. Can you hear that?

A little bit. If you're not talking, just do it. When we're talking.

I'll just talk and try to chew at the same time to see if I can multitask. Have you ever given a live speech ever, Victoria, eating raspberries or even eating any food whatsoever? I mean, that's probably not good etiquette in front of an audience, right?

You know, there are all kinds of things you can do. You never know what could work.

Yeah, our buddy J. Abraham, I remember his old, like, you know, seminars he would do. He would literally, you would hear him chewing. He would sit there and eat. Because Jay's weird and bizarre and everything, but I think that's pretty funny. Let me mention something, though, about what you're saying. You touched on it, Dean. This is not about getting up in front of an audience and speaking as the only way of communicating. I mean, communicating effectively happens in all kinds of different environments and all kinds of different places. Now, the biggest fear of public speaking is for people like, oh, my God, how does this apply to me? I don't really want to go out in front of audiences. And when I was growing up, I was incredibly shy. Very difficult for me to meet anyone new, even if it was one on one. When I was a kid. And I somehow learned early on that If I'm going to get ahead in life, I have to communicate to other individuals. And what's really funny now is a lot of people consider me this great connector. And you know, I have obviously a ton of relationships. You know, we run genius network, you know, all that sort of stuff. And I meet a lot of incredible people. If you would have fast, you know, I mean, when I was a little kid, if you would have fast forward to thinking one day I would be doing that, I'd be there. I couldn't even comprehend it. I mean, literally, I would not have been able to even see that as a possibility ever. And so I did meander. I mean, I went through life and kind of you just learn things. You learn things, but once you learn how to do something, it gives you confidence, then you realize you can do it. And I know more than anything you have a lot of strategies. I'm going to ask you about some of them, your techniques and things like that. But more than anything is you give people confidence. And once you confidently show them how to do it, how to make it simple. That's what your courses do, that's what your events that you teach people, that's what they actually do, is they teach people how to do that, Then all of a sudden, things that people thought they could never do, they do it with ease and they do it successfully and they get to the point where they actually start enjoying it. My very first seminar that I got paid for, I wrote a sales letter for carpet cleaners. This was in 19, I think it was 1994. And we sent it out to a guy named Dennis who had a distributorship where he sold chemicals and equipment to carpet cleaners in the San Diego area. And he sent out a letter that I wrote a sales letter to all of these cleaners inviting them to a one day seminar, all day event. And it was $97. And it was how to Double youe Business in Six Months or Less. And I had already known how to apply these marketing strategies to my carpet cleaning business. And I was actually selling courses, teaching carpet cleaners how to do it. I just started doing that, but I never publicly spoke. I'd gone to Toastmasters. I was the Arizona director of the Carpet and Fabric Care Institute. So I would like, I guess I did do public speaking, but it was more like introducing people and just saying hi to a group. But it wasn't like running a seminar. It wasn't standing up for long periods of time and doing it, you know, eloquently. And like I mentioned, I Did go to Toastmasters and I did take a Dale Carnegie course on how to win friends and influence people in it. And part of it was public speaking. And I was trying to get over this incredible fear. And so I literally wrote a letter, got all these carpet cleaners to show up at this event and 52 of them. And I, you know, people say, you know, you're not going to be nervous. Well, I was like shaking the whole day because I didn't have a Victoria, I didn't have any method. I literally wrote a sales letter. People showed up and I had to talk to them all day. But at the end of it, I actually pitched my program and it was a $497 basic version and a $597 gold version at the time. And I ended up selling $12,000 worth of these courses. The first time I actually did a one day seminar and I was like going, you know what, I better learn how to do this stuff. And so I did. And so for 15 plus years, I ran huge events. Hundreds of people, thousands of people went through my seminars. We brought in millions and millions of dollars. And then fast forward. Why would a guy, after doing tons of seminars bringing in millions and millions of dollars over a 25 year period now of studying marketing, why would I hire someone like Victoria to actually. And she was the opening speaker at our last Genius Network annual event. So she's awesome. So I'm saying this to all of our listeners, I love marketing, is that school's never out for the pro. This is such an important skill to learn how to do, how to communicate. I'm always looking for ways on how to make it better. And that's the reason we're bringing you on today. That's what I'd like to talk about. For one, how do you do it? But more so, why do you do it? Why does someone focus on this? And why have you made this your profession? Because you're not just someone teaching speakers. You do it yourself. You're out there doing this all the time. But you're also, you have become this master of teaching other people how to do it. And so like why, why is it so important for someone to learn this?

Well, you know, on a business level, simply on the bottom line level, ultimately, how much you can really, as I said earlier, land your point, communicate your message when that business is dependent on your ability to communicate. So just from a pure bottom line perspective, it's a critical skill from a noble intent message. Not that nobility is from bottom line, but ultimately, if you Want to influence people's lives for the better. I say every time you communicate, whether that's with your kid or your colleague or your client or your customer, you have an opportunity to influence their lives for the better. And, you know, when we're off our message, even a small exchange with someone in a store or a customer or someone on the telephone, a colleague, and we don't handle it well, we have this uncomfortable feeling in our body. And so the more we can really own that messaging and master, it's the better off we'll be and the more lives we can touch.

Right.

And that's. If you're hiring people. That's. I mean, I would even take this so far as if you want to meet your life partner, if you want to sit and have an important conversation with a family member, all the stuff that you actually discuss can be applied to every aspect of life, not just business, but, you know, personally and professionally.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So it's not just, as you said earlier, even a sales situation or a keynote. It could be meeting a date.

Right.

So what do you think of that, Dean?

I think it's fantastic. If we went with the starting point, I think the common thing that you talk about is the through line, and that's always. I think that's probably the foundational thing that you end up talking about. Maybe you could explain that a little bit.

Sure, sure. Yes, it is foundational to all of my work. And it's really a theater term that was coined by the great Russian theater artist Stanislavski. And he said that in any play, a character is driven by a force, what he calls the through line. And it drives them through the play. It drives them through their life. Ultimately, if you think of a character as being alive in their circumstances. And so I think of us as each being characters in our lives. And there's something that drives us through our life. And it's not necessarily your big why. I know a lot of people can confuse that. It's applicable in a large big why way, but it's also applicable in a meeting. So I might show up to a meeting to prove myself, or I might show up to meeting two to share. I might be a hostess, and my through line is to show off, or it could be to welcome everyone. I might be a security guard, and my through line is to check id, which is one way of looking at your job. Or it could be to provide safety. And so ultimately, when we live our lives, our larger lives with our through line in mind, but also in any given scene, Whether we're hosting or having a meeting or checking at the front of a building, what is the noble intent behind our work? I worked with Joe. Joe Polish and I worked together. Right. And Joe, I think I texted you one day and I said, I think I know what your through line is, because he has these two businesses, right, Joe? I mean, really two enterprises. One or around working with entrepreneurs, and the other is around addiction. And I said, I think your through line is to alleviate suffering, because you're doing that whether it's with entrepreneurs or whether it's for our society and the people who suffer from this situation. So I think we have ultimately a through line that connects all the aspects of what we do. It integrates us, and it shows up in every scene of our lives.

So how does one tap into what their through line is? We'll just have you kind of walk people through some of what you do.

Yeah, sure. Well, there's a series of questions I ask people to help them find their throughline. I'll give you one here. And it's. It's a cosmic one. You've probably heard me say this. I said it at the Genius Network annual meeting. But if. If all of you listening can just focus on this and put down your pen or close your computer, look away from anything distracting, and if I were to say to you, you were on a desert island and here you are, you're dying, and you could only give one piece of advice to a young person, a piece of advice about life and what matters or how to live life, what would that piece of advice? And, you know, people come up with all kinds of answers that fly into their head. It could be, be kind or enjoy life or follow your dreams or live it the way only you can. And I say, ultimately, your business somehow should incorporate that through line. So, and. And there are other ways to drill down to it. But ultimately, if you look at what connects everything you do. So, for example, JJ Virgin, who's one of my clients, as you mentioned, she, on the surface could be seen as a fitness expert or a nutrition, a celebrity nutritionist, but that's really not what she's in the business of. She's really in the business. Her through line is really around helping people reach their full potential, raise their game. And she does that as a friend. She does that in her work now. She does that all throughout whatever she's doing. So you're looking for what it is that's always driving you in every situation. You know, it's kind of the meta element to why you do what you do.

No, I love that. And the more you can get clarity around that, and I think that's, you know, I think that's a search that most people spend most of their life really thinking about and seeking. Well, not, I mean, a lot of people probably don't think about this at all, but from the people that I hang out with, they're always thinking about this sort of, sort of stuff. And many of them are never crystal clear. And for a lot of people, they evolve, you know, that one stage of their life, this is where they're at. At another stage of their life, it's this. But I do want to bring up, you know, there's one of my. We have a genius network member who I won't mention his name, but he built up a company doing over 300 million a year, over 7,000 employees, incredibly, you know, skilled in a lot of things in business, but he was deathly afraid of public speaking. And so a lot of people are like, well, yeah, once someone reaches a certain level, maybe this is easy. But you know, I mean, I don't know the exact statistics on this. I heard, I don't know if this is 100% true. I heard that Johnny Carson once a week would throw up before going on the Tonight Show. That there's a lot of, you know, there's this fear of going out and addressing things publicly. And I know that, that a lot of the through line would apply to all elements of how you think about your business and how you think about communication and how you think about the value that you bring to the world. I like bringing it back to the context of speaking in front of audiences. And what I'd love to have is by the time we're done with this episode, people that are really, even if they're super successful financially and they've accomplished a lot, I would love to have people have more confidence in realizing how much more impact they can make in the world by going out and getting their message in front of people. Even if that means standing in front of a large audience if they're afraid of it. And so I'd love to kind of, I'd love to go down that path, but I do try to think of what are the obstacles that our listeners have. And so I'd like to ask you that question. I mean, out of all the work that you've done with so many world class individuals and so many different people you've worked with, I mean, what are the obstacles that cause people to not take this on, to not Place importance on it. In the same way that I say one of the. We can teach people marketing strategies all day long, and we do. But until someone has a marketing mindset, they're still not going to use what it is we talk about. Me and Dean on I love marketing, have the breakthrough DNA report that's free, it doesn't even sell anything. And anyone can go and download that and read it, and they will understand things about how to better market themselves that they've never even thought of before or thought of in quite the same way. And it's right there. But if they don't have the mindset that this is actually a really important skill to have, they're not going to use it. And as a matter of fact, they not only won't use it, they will talk down about it, they will think it's a negative thing. Because you see how many people like, oh, marketing, trying to take advantage of people. So this particular skill and what you teach, what are the excuses? What are the obstacles? What are the things that. That cause people not to place importance on getting good at it?

Right. That's a great question. So just harkening back to what you said a moment ago about them feeling fearful or lacking the confidence. That's a big one. And people will say, well, I'm not good, or they pass it off to their business partner. They say, I have the material, but he or she is better at presenting or really uncomfortable. And ultimately, here's a tip for everyone right away is that it's not about confidence, and that's a myth. It's really about connection. So the moment you're connected, and this goes back to a throughline, the moment you're connected on your message and making sure you get that out because you care about it and you want people to have it, you believe in it, in your core. You're not nervous. Whenever you're nervous in front of an audience or an audience of one or two, or in front of some peers and you think, am I good enough? Or on camera, it's because you're focused on yourself. And the moment you focus outward in service of others, it takes that fear away because it's not about you anymore.

That's a great point. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I've heard you say that before. And I just got a thought for the first time. Where times in my life where I've been talking to someone and I don't really feel comfortable until I feel connected to that person. And some people, if I Never feel connected. I never feel comfortable. So I think you're absolutely not. I think I know you're right. I mean, of course, that's makes all the sense in the world.

Yeah. And ultimately, then, if we can set up the circumstances to create that, it's much more effective. We'll get there faster. So the other obstacles, I mean, people will often say the common. The common elements, I hear are things like, well, you know, I don't like to prepare. I'm better when I wing it. And they just think they're better when they wing it. And my comment is, that's possible, but you're not good as you think you are. Or you could be better, and we're not as strong when we wing it. And having some kind of structured spontaneity is great. So that's one element. Sometimes people don't understand that every time they're going through their life, going through the day, they're communicating. So it shows up everywhere. Whether you want to be on stage or on camera or on a TED Talk event, it doesn't really matter. You're constantly communicating. It is a critical skill. The other things that hold people back are just not knowing how to do it, not realizing there's actually a system that is not too hard to put into place. It's manageable. People come through my course and they walk out and they say, I'm so excited for my next event, like they're looking forward to, because they have the tools. So recognizing that there is a system and that when you have that, it can really help you. So something like that can be a big impediment, just feeling like it's outside their scope or they're not born with a natural talent. And, you know, the other elements. I hear people say, I'm not creative or.

Well, you have. You have a system that you call the prism effect. So what. What's that all about? How does that work? Yeah, that's kind of what you can talk about here is having. Having a system when you have. I think people feel confidence that way. Right. When, you know, kind of, oh, yeah, this and then this and then this.

That's right. That's right. They need. And ultimately they'll make it their own, but they need some kind of a basic structure to follow. So the system is actually the rock the room performance system and the throughline and the prism effects, which you mentioned, are within that. So the prism effect is really around. How do you tap into, if you think of a prism, the full spectrum of all your gifts and Talents, and that's ultimately what distinguishes your brand. You know, how do you do it in a way that only you can, so you don't look like everyone else? How do you really do it in a way that is unique to you, that lights you up? Or as I like to say, and this is appropriate for you today, Joe, raz your berry. How do you razz your berry? You know, have fun up there.

I never thought about razzing my berry before until this now.

Yeah, well, he's never had a name for it.

That's too funny. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So.

I'm just gonna sit here and let. I'm just gonna let you.

You're just gonna razz your berry there.

Yeah.

Yeah, Dean, that was really funny. So. So.

The prism effect.

Yeah, the prism effect.

Come on, Victoria.

Stay focused.

I'm just thinking about, you know, Barry's right now. To the prism effect. So if you think of a prism, you know, we all have different colors within ourselves and that, you know, those are your particular passions, parts of your history, your areas of expertise, skills, jobs you've had, knowledge. And often we hide parts of that. I say, you know, we shave off parts of our personality. Or as my friend Connie Podesta says, you know, we Botox our personality, and then we start hiding different colors of who we are. Like, well, I don't want to show that I ride a Harley. I'm not going to talk about that as, you know, an executive or I'm a salesperson. I'm not going to bring in my drumming into this. And yet my whole theory is, when we start to incorporate these elements that are distinct to us. If you're a drummer and you're in sales, why don't you put two drumsticks on your desk? What it'll do is they'll bring people into your office saying, are you a drummer? My son's a drummer. And you have that connection that you, Joe, were talking about earlier. All of a sudden you have a point of connection. Or if you're a CEO and you ride Harleys, how do you bring that in as a metaphor and analogies and images? So you distinguish your brand, you separate your message, and ultimately it lights you up because you're talking about elements and ideas and perspectives that you're familiar with and that you love.

Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm now thinking a lot about how to create connection and people that are, well, I'm afraid of public speaking and say, well, then there's this obstacle that you have in your mind or in the way that you go about things with maybe a connection. And I'm sitting there thinking about, in my own life, how do I connect with so many people? What is it that I actually do? What's going on in my head that allows me to do that? And part of it is when I focus on being useful to other people. And when I mean being useful, I don't have any qualms about. There's a lot of stuff we do for free. I mean, this podcast we give to people for free. No one, no one's paying us money right now to listen to this. I mean, we're making it out there for free. But there's a lot of stuff that I charge for, and it's really useful, and there's a lot of stuff that you charge for, and it's really useful. And so there are ways to connect with people and also simultaneously be serving your own self interest. And so that's kind of how I connect. I'm just constantly thinking about the other person. And when I am thinking about myself, then I don't connect. You know, that's where either the ego or whatever story I make up in my head. So that's very interesting. And so I'd like to. For entrepreneurs and when it comes to communication, what are some of the biggest communication mistakes, or call them obstacles that entrepreneurs make? Because I know a lot of people listening would probably like to know if they're making those mistakes. That's one piece of it. And the second is. And this is maybe the second part of the question is, what does it typically cost them? Because I can have you point out some of the communication errors, but I want people to get really in touch with what does it cost you if you don't have the skill down? Because on one hand, someone may be listening going, yeah, that sounds good, you know, but I don't know if I want to go through a course. I don't know if I want to take this on. And really, I'm kind of afraid of it. But what I had to come to in my life is that there are certain things that were scary as hell to me, and there are certain things that were big. Like, wow, I'd actually have to spend hours and I'd have to practice and I'd have to learn stuff. But then I looked at, well, what is it going to cost me in my life if I don't get good at this or if I don't even do it? And then all of a sudden it became instead of a should, it became A must, because I realize there's consequences for doing something or not doing something, for having mastery of something, versus bumbling around never knowing what the hell I'm doing. So if you could speak to some of the biggest communication mistakes that entrepreneurs make and that sort of stuff, I think it'd be really helpful.

Sure. Happy to. Well, I think I'd begin by just asking everyone, listening. Think about a few recent situations where someone has pitched you, whether it's by phone or live at an event, or you go in for a meeting and they're trying to win your service and you don't give it to them, you don't give them the business. And there's a reason either they didn't understand you, they talked too much, they didn't listen, they interrupted you, they didn't create a great experience, they shoved a lot of information at you. All those elements are communication. So there was a guy years ago who was trying to pitch me for a video service, and it was at a live conference event. And I waited in line to talk to him after his presentation breakout session. And I went up to him and we were talking for a little while, and I think I might actually hire this guy. And it was a significant sum of money. And at the end, he blew what I call as the final moment. I always teach first and final because they're critical. We remember the final moment of any exchange, whether that's a movie, you know, or a meeting or a play. And as, as we were winding down, he looked away from me. I was going to shake his hand and he missed it because he went to shake the next person's hand to try to get another piece of business. And I thought, he doesn't care. And he blew the whole. We spent a few minutes talking, but he blew that whole moment with his final moment.

Wow.

So he lost a significant sum. We always do.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, I like that too. Thinking about the final moment and thinking about the first moment. I mean, how do you, how do you start and how do you finish? Because. Because if you do those two right, the middle part is. It's set up well. It's the setup, it's how you button it up and it's how you set it up. And it has everything to do with if you're going to continue as a continuation.

Yeah, I mean, I went to meet a lawyer years ago in New York, and he was a high powered Park Avenue lawyer. And I got into the elevator, I got to the next floor, this floor. He was on 17 and as the doors open, he was standing in the elevator hallway waiting for me. He said, welcome, Victoria, come on in. Who does that? And it was such an awesome first moment. It was such an awesome first moment. He probably had my business right then. And then the other thing he did that was phenomenal. You know, when I teach communication, I don't just teach presenting, I teach how do we connect in a back and forth consulted and sales situation. And so part of that is listening skills. And this lawyer, during the meeting interrupted me and then he apologized for interrupting, which very few people do, and I recommend all of you do. He said, I'm so sorry for interrupting, please continue. Won my business right there. So he was so attentive and it's such a great capacity for really being present for me. So right away, think of those elements for your own business. You know, are you planning the first and final, are you cutting people off? Are you greeting them properly? Are you shoving a lot of information at them? Or are you having the improper through line where, for example, you're thinking about closing the sale instead of really understanding your client's needs or your prospect's needs. And people can sense that. They sense it.

Yeah, totally. Any other big communication mistakes or obstacles that you think are worth mentioning?

I think one of the biggest, and I hinted at it just now, is that the biggest mistake I see made, whether it's on a keynote stage or in a one to one sales setting, you know, even a parent to their kid, is people focus too much on the information that needs to be conveyed and not enough on the experience they're creating for that other person or people. So if you start saying not how do I give a presentation or how do I set up this meeting or how much do I have to share, but how do I create an experience for this other person from the first to the final, it's transformative.

Yeah, totally. No good.

Yeah, we don't, we don't like the person who shoves a lot of information at us. So that's kind of just think of it that way, whether that's in a keynote or here.

Right. Well, you know, I do want to mention this too, because this will probably blow some people's minds, but when you know, you, you've worked with some very high tech people, let's take even, you know, one of your clients from Microsoft as an example. You got a computer company, the creators of PowerPoint, and you literally teach people how to prepare their communications, how to prepare their presentations, be it a live, a webinar, a public Presentation, you know, whatever on three by five cards with, you know, pen or pencil or marker or whatever. And that seems like some people when they hear that going, what the hell are you talking about? I would just sit down with my, you know, Apple computer and, you know, crank out a keynote and then, you know, sift through the slides and everything I want to do there, or I'm going to type it all up and then, you know, paste and copy and delete. I mean, why would you hand write something down? But it explain your process, because once you taught me that, it makes the whole process of preparing a talk infinitely easier. This is something that every one of your clients, once you teach them how to do it and you walk them through your process, are like, wow, you've just given them this great new skill. But it's certainly not how most people with all the technology today think that you would be preparing, you know, important presentation. So let's, let's talk about how you do it.

Sure, sure. Well, and I'll tell you a fun secret right now, which is that I'm standing here in my desk in my studio with my desk in front of me. And on this desk are probably 70 business card index cards. And I've got 70 index cards laid out from left to right because I know you're going to be asking me different questions. I might have examples. So there's a whole sequence here of examples. I have some cards on the Prisma stand, I have some examples cards on throughline so that as you ask the question, I'm not having to pull out of my memory. You always hate that feeling when you leave and you think, ah, I wish I'd said that. So everyone who's listening, even on a podcast interview or on a phone call, it's a critical consultative sales call. Put out your cards and your notes. You're not scrolling up and down on the screen going, where's that? Where's that? Where's that thing? It's right there in front of you.

I love it. You remember, Joe, about this time last year you came to Florida and you were speaking at JJ Virgin's event. Actually, Victoria, that's the first time I met you, was there at JJ's. I put this picture up on Facebook because Joe comes and I've got this big stone dining room table and Joe had this whole thing just laid out with all of his index cards all over the dining room table. It was the first time I had seen that in action. So it was, yeah, it was really cool. And then it was cool to meet you. But yeah, there's. And we were, we were getting ready for Toronto. We had the same thing. The index cards were all up in the hotel room laying them all out, figuring out and seeing where they go. It's very helpful and very different, very tactile compared to just laying it out in an outline or on a mind map or on something on your computer. There's something about having these physically right there in front of you. There's something to that.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. Do you want to say something?

No, I was just going to say. Yeah, that was recently after I had gone through your training. And so there I was. And I do it for all my presentations now. And again I mentioned this earlier, I have done, I've done multimillion dollar events in the past before I ever learned any of this stuff. This just makes it better. It just makes it easier. The last two years now, I have ran the highest level marketing events in industry transformer events, like the biggest events of, you know, because I think of Genius Network as a tribe of tribal leaders. And, you know, it's been incredibly helpful. So no matter where you're at, I mean, what we're talking about is it may sound simple, but it will make such a world of difference with how you work things out and how you.

So I love that, I love that you're planning these events with the cards because for everyone listening, you know, you can plan your two day mastermind, you can plan your, your pitch, you can plan your podcast, your meeting, your keynote, whatever it happens to be. And a few key tips because people sometimes misunderstand how the cards work. So this is critical. You're going to take cards and you're going to write in large capital letters the key words for that section. So rather than write the script, you're not putting a script on a card, you're writing the keywords. You might sell, say, you know, such and such quote or such and such story. You know, I'm going to give the quote from Gandhi and then I'm going to tell the Denny's commercial audition story and then I'm going to give these four statistics and each of those goes on a card. The card ultimately is really the scaffolding of your presentation or whatever that happens to be your meeting, your event. So you're looking at the big chunks, ultimately the modules that you're going to move through. And if you want, and you're highly visual, you can color code the cards. So say all the yellows might be bright, energetic moments and all the blues Might be more serious moments. And all the oranges might be stories that you can literally see the composition. And you'll say, wow, I have too many orange cards in a row.

Row.

Or I have too much exposition and high, high information in a row. And you can rearrange them collaboratively with your team or on your own. And you carry them in your back pocket. So don't use sticky notes. I always say, you know, sticky notes are problematic because they're sticky. They stick cards you can shuffle, move, transport, and collaborate with.

Right, exactly.

We have a lot of material on that, so you can reach us if you want, and we can give you more material on all that.

Yeah, well, actually, I want to hear your pitch at the end of this. I want you to actually do a pitch for people like you would.

Oh, golly.

Yeah. So, okay.

And that's not a bad thing because, for one, it puts you on the spot. But secondly, I think, you know, I fully endorse and recommend that people go through all of your training because it's just going to make them more effective and make them more money and, you know, help create some impact. And it's not even about learning how to communicate it. Actually. So much of what you teach people how to do is to get in touch with their purpose, get in touch with their passion, get clear on what. What the hell it is they're trying to do. Which leads me to a question. I mean, like, how can someone listening to this more easily tap into their. As much as I'm not a big fan of the word passion, because I know that could be taken out of context. How do people more easily tap into their passion or that thing that means the most to them and their purpose of why they're doing what they're doing?

Yeah. Yeah, good. Well, you know, I think you're right to be wary of the word passion, because that sort of freaks a lot of people out. Or purpose. People are panicked about finding their purpose, and I think we're sort of always moving towards it. You know, one way just to begin in the simplest of ways, is to think about what activities stop time for you. So what is an activity which, when you do, it just stops time, whether that's dancing or, you know, playing with your coin collection or cooking for people or. And if you can get into that, it grounds us in a way that makes sense us feel safe, and it helps us start to find our way. My mother had this great phrase, which was, your gifts will bring you home. And I think if we can start with what we Love, which is our gift. You know, it's our gift given to us. It's a gift that we give to the world, grounds us. I mean, I think ultimately, if we start looking at passion as this outside, you know, element or force and purpose, it's.

It's.

It's frightening. It's too much. But just say, what do you love and what do you love when you're in that activity? And let that guide you.

Yeah, you know what that term, stopped time. You gave a presentation at Genius Network at the annual event on this. Actually, you've given several presentations at Genius Network, but the most recent event, you opened it up and you talked about stop time. I'd like you to give the short version of that, what it means, because it's. You know, your presentation was so damn good and it was so powerful, and it just really makes a lot of sense. So what do you mean by that?

Yeah, well, it's. It's a. You know, we are in a crazy busy world. You know, it's a term that I know one of your pals uses. I call it Crazy Busy Nuts. Yeah, exactly. He wrote a book called Crazy Busy. I have a keynote called Crazy Busy Nuts. And ultimately, you know, people are sick. Like, my favorite word on the podcast. We'll have to go back through and count how many times I've used the word. Ultimately. Holy smokes. So the people are so busy, and so if we can take them off this conveyor belt of life where they're just packing their boxes and getting through the day and doing more things in the podcast and interviews and emails and Facebook and just give them a moment of peace. And that comes through creating an interactive experience, a communication setting. This is back to the purpose of this call, really, where they don't feel the pressure of their day. And I think that's what Starbucks has built part of its brand on. You know, you go and you have your latte and you feel like you're in this cocoon of time. And if you meet with someone and you can really listen to them and be present for them, whether that's your kid or your friend, you stop time for them. And so how do we design? How do we design that is so in growth, so engaging for art, that it takes them out of time. So, you know, Bob Dylan said, the purpose of is to stop time. And if you think of your community art and supposedness of information art, then you take people out of time.

Right, right. Love it.

So, Dean, I have more questions, so I want, you know, it's Interesting.

When you're talking about, about stop time and not only using music as an example, but I was just thinking about that the other day. You think about how impactful somebody, you know putting. Writing a song or putting that song and your song is just a metaphor for a message, getting their message out there that in three and a half minutes you think about how impactful that can be over. Over somebody's life. And I think I'm wondering now as you're saying it, it doesn't even have to be a big one hour or a full on keynote speak speech. I think about something like Joe's video that's been, you know, all over now about is selling evil. You know, it's. How long is that Joe? It's probably three and a half or four minutes.

Yeah, three minutes. I think it's three min and 40 seconds.

Three minutes and 40 seconds. But you know, if you look at that can you. You can seeing the, the whole. All of these kind of elements in play in even something like that, just thinking it all the way through that's it's fascinating because it's really. If we just take it from you know, reshaping people's mind of this being about doing public speeches in front of hundreds or thousands of people to packaging a message that is completely authentic and congruent with your through line and getting that out into the world that really opens up the whole opportunity for people completely.

I love Dean that you cited Joe and something that's as short as a three minute song or Joe is selling evil. That's exactly it. And you know, even I have a doorman here at my office and I'll come in and I'll be a little harried and he'll greet me in a way that stops time for me and that's 10 seconds. So yeah, I do, I completely do. And if we can become that for other people like a safe harbor even if we're propelling them forward in their business, their lives, it's. It's a profound connection.

Yeah. Let me, let me ask you about. Because you've heard me, you know, probably many times talk about how I think of selling is influence and I think of marketing as storytelling. And you know, selling is what you do when you're on the phone or face to face with somebody or groups of people. And marketing is what you do to get someone on the phone or face to face with you properly positioned so they're pre interested and pre qualified, pre motivated, predisposed to do business with you. And if you do your marketing right? People show up that way in the midst of all of this. The ability to tell a story has everything to do with how people buy in how they perceive you. A lot of the marketing that you will do, a lot of the messaging is designed to attract who you want to attract, repel who you want to repel. Not meaning offensively repel people, but like literally if someone's not a right fit, you don't want to attract people to come into your world, that's not going to be good, you know, that you're not the right person for them. You know, I mean, I'm not the right group for someone that wants to pay $500 to join a mastermind group. You know, it's, it's a high level sort of thing. So there's so much of the communication that has to do with telling a story. So what are the steps that someone listening to this could take to tell an effective and impactful and meaningful story and utilize that story in their marketing and their business?

Yeah, I like to think of story in a few different ways now, by the way, storytelling is because become such a huge buzzword that people have lost sight of what it means. So I love that you're bringing this up as a topic. I have a client say, can you help us tell our story? And I say, well, do you mean your company story or do you mean your team story, or do you mean your personal story or do you mean customer stories? And they haven't been clear. So that's where I'd begin with everyone listening. There are many types of stories. I think some of the most effective for winning business come down to sharing not necessarily your personal story or your company story, but a story that they will relate to as a potential customer of yours. So I think if you can have a list for a series of index cards of examples of stories that represent a client's success. So it could be someone in that particular type of industry. If you have a customer who's going to be in a tech industry, you think, who are my tech clients who had similar challenges? So it could be someone in HR who are my HR clients who have had challenges. So it could be that. It could be through the demographic, the psychographic, the age, the region. So you're thinking, what stories do I have that will most relate for my prospects? And then ultimately a story is three parts in the simplest format. Here are the three parts of any story. I call it cpr. So you think of cpr, there's character, there's a Predicament, and there's a resolution. So C for character, P for predicament, R for resolution. You have a character. So I had this client. She was facing XYZ situations. That's the dilemma. And here's how we resolved it. And that's the simplest story structure. But if the people listening, she said, that's like me. Think of it as like a testimonial, you know, on, you know, the ab buster, you know, so how do we. How do we relate to that and then see ourselves in it and say, I will work with Joe. I'm going to work with Dean, because they have helped people in my type of situation. And that's one of the best stories you can tell. So we often don't do that. We think about ourselves or our company story, but think about. About your customer example stories.

No, that's great. That's really great. Dean earlier mentioned creativity, and you kind of briefly talked about it from your perspective. What is creativity? And how do our listeners. How do entrepreneurs cultivate more of it? It's even hard for me to ask that because. Because I, you know, without sounding arrogant, I'm pretty damn creative. I mean, I constantly create new things. I come up with ideas all day long. I mean, I remember one woman coming to my seminar, and she's like, yeah, I come to your group because you give me ideas. And what was going through my head? I didn't say this to her, but I was like, going, I wish the damn ideas in my head would stop. I found it hard to comprehend that someone would say, I come to you for ideas. It's like, I thought this happened to everybody. And so. And of course, I'm not creative in many areas also. I get myself in all kinds of messes all the time. So I'm very creative and creating messes, too. But I just wanted to get your perspective on how would you define creativity and how do entrepreneurs cultivate more of it in an effective manner?

Yeah, well, the fact that you get yourself into messes, Joe, is exactly partly why you are so creative. That's the piece of it. And you would know, seriously, because part of being creative is not censoring yourself.

Yeah.

It's not censoring your ideas or your actions or your silliness. You might have a hello Kitty case for your phone, like Jo Polish. You might put stickers everywhere. That kind of playfulness that you have, Jo, that is so infectious and which we all love so much, is part of why you're creative. Because you come up with ideas, you connect elements that haven't been put together before, where that's two people through the amazing genius network, which is something that we all should be a part of.25K, the Mecca of brilliant creative minds. And that, or in a business environment, we say, let's send out this kind of a mailer or a package. It's that ability to spin ideas and not be afraid of what people will think. And so that's part of it. It's trusting the impulse and then surrounding yourself with people or a team who are willing to tease those ideas out and run with them and not shut them down. So that's for you as someone. Think of who's around your team and say, here's how we need to treat each other. When someone has an idea, rather than shutting it down, here's the question to ask. Tell me more or tell me the thinking behind that idea. I always say it could be the idea that leads to the idea. So if someone says, let's send out a FedEx package every day, you might say, well, that's, you know, not cost effective. But you could say, well, tell me the thinking behind that. Yeah, so that's. Yeah, go ahead.

No, that. That is a great question. I'm writing those. Those. Those two questions right there. If you're just sitting there talking to someone and they're trying to, you know, demonstrate or figure out or whatever, just asking them, tell me more. Tell me the thinking behind that. I mean, that reveals so much. And if you do it in a way, it's not attacking somebody, it's that. I mean, what you just said about me, that little sound bite, I mean, it was acknowledging. It was very acknowledging about some of my shenanigans. Putting little stickers in my face on people, which I get from my sticker face. And the hello Kitty wallet which Dean Jackson actually gave me, because Dean carries one too. He originally started doing that, but I personally think I look much cooler with it than he does. You know, that sort of thing. But it is. The playfulness is part of my, you know, it is part of what. What makes me be who I am. But the way you said it actually made me feel really good about.

About it.

Not like, oh, you're just being a jackass, you know, and those two questions, I would encourage all of our listeners to write those down. Tell me more and tell me the thinking behind it. They're just great questions to engage people and connect with them.

Right, right, right, right. Because they may have misphrased or they might not have had the information to put it out forward but they had some impulse behind it and that's worth paying attention to.

Yeah, totally, totally. Well, you know, we're getting towards where we're going to wrap up and we still have to have people hear your pitch. I want to hear that. What are you most excited about right now? When you look ahead at your future and the things that you have going on and where the world is going and how communication and all of this stuff that you focus on applies to just the abundance of opportunities and things that are happening right now. Where do you place your, your focus, your time and your attention on right now?

Well, I love thinking forward about the elements I'm going to create, whether that's a live event or a private client. And I mean that sincerely. This is not a pitch as much as for me, those are works of art. So I think how do I create a really cool experience for a live event or how do I create a really cool experience for my private one on one client? So those are the elements I look forward to. My husband and I are putting out a documentary film and so that's another creative piece of work. So those are the elements I look forward to in my life. And you know, this afternoon I'm going to the gym. I'm excited for that. So it's the small elements in my life and the bigger pieces. I'm working on a book called Risk Forward. This is the theme I've been sharing on this call. I know that I think to some degree decisiveness is overrated. I think goal setting can lead you astray. So all these things about the creative process and how we apply that to our business and life. So that is very exciting to me. So those are the ones I would say, awesome, awesome.

And Dean, I'm going to ask her to actually, for people that really want to go deep into this and learn more about it, I mean Victoria has a ton of stuff on her site and she has a lot of videos that are out there and she also does full blown trainings. Is there anything you wanted to ask that we did not cover before I asked her to describe?

Yeah, I think that it's going to be valuable to hear what your advice would be for people here, but what the next steps would be. Because I think we've really, I mean it's really been kind of a shift here to think about, you know, the through line and to think about the purpose of the messages. Whether it's a one on one conversation that you're having with a prospective client or an employee or a spouse or anybody that you want to convey a message to all the way up to, you know, doing a huge, a huge talk. I think understanding that the things that you're talking about, the structure, the approach to it are really valuable for that part of it. I think it's going to be very valuable for people to take advantage here to go deeper into. I'm anxious to hear where you're going to suggest that people start with this process.

Well, we have, we're going to set up, we have set up a special URL for your I Love Marketing listeners where they can download some free material. So if you go to rock rocktheroom.comILM I love marketing. You can grab from there a really cool audio I created, the quick start to how to Rock the room and also a special ebook with a lot of the themes that I've been sharing about how to bring out and express your full message with the unexpected twist that makes it your own and really make an impact. So rocktheroom.comILM you can go grab your resources there and when those resonate for you, you can take the next step. We've got trainings, we've got videos, we've got live events, we've got private coaching, online courses. So you can choose the medium that is most interesting to you.

I love it. You know what that, I mean, that makes it easy enough. And by the way, I didn't ask you to set that up, you just did it, which shows a big level of intelligence and professionalism and just simply being smart. Also, I want to let my listeners know that this is not us collaborating beforehand to put together some sort of program to pitch. There's no affiliate thing here. If you decide to, you know, do any sort of business with Victoria, you know, me and Dean aren't, you know, sharing revenue or anything. And so it's, you know, if you want to utilize it, do it. And I encourage it because I've actually, you know, have hired and paid Victoria to help me and we'll continue to do so because she's awesome. And I also want. Yeah, thank you. And I also want to mention like the late Nathaniel Brandon who was like the father of self esteem, was just a brilliant guy and he became a good friend of mine. I've had him speak at conferences, I interviewed him. He passed away recently and he had this thing called sentence stems where it's like sentence completion and if you could utilize the, this form of questioning for anything. And so as an example, if you think about the next year, you know, It's a brand new year. Now, if your communication became 5% more effective, what are five or six things that would happen to you? That what would happen to your impact? Your relationships, your income, your clients, your parenting? I mean, if you were to just something as simple as not like, I'm going to double my ability to sell on stage, or I'm going to even get over the fear, if there's a fear, or I'm going to tell a better story or connect, or I'm going to slash the amount of time that I spend in anxiety freaking out about what am I going to say to this group? Not massive change, just a 5% change. What would happen if your communication became 5% more effective? And if you spent just a couple minutes thinking about what would happen, you'd realize, wow, this is a really important sort of skill set. But I can almost guarantee you that if you go through what Victoria will teach you, I mean, watch the video@rocktheroom.comILM Watch the video and read the ebook. That alone is going to teach you a tremendous amount of stuff. And go down the path, get really good at this skill. Because I know what will happen is it will transform many aspects of your life. This is not about just getting up in front of an audience. You're going to have to do this anyway. You're going to go through the rest of your life communicating. I mean, this is not like, oh, if I decide to go see this movie, it's not like that. I mean, you're going to stop listening to this episode, this podcast as soon as we wrap up here, and you're going to spend the rest of the day communicating with yourself and your own head or communicating with other people. And if you develop this and get better at it, your life is going to improve on all kinds of different levels. There's so many valuable byproducts that will come out of this. So I really, really encourage you to delve into what Victoria does and how she does it. That's why we wanted to introduce her to all of our I love marketing listeners and go from there. So, Dean, anything else you want, Want to ask Victoria and Victoria after Dean says nothing important, then I would. I'd like to end with any famous last words. So now you're on the spot. Dean, say something smart.

Yeah, I was just razzing my berries there. I mean, I lost track. What were we talking about? Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

All right, Victoria, thank you so much.

Well, thank you so much, the two of you. I've been so looking forward to this, really, truly. As I mentioned, you know, got all my prep here, I guess. I want to share one final quote with all of you. And some people joke about this because I say, Marcel Marceau, the great French mime and what he said to me. And yes, people say, oh, the mime. Did he speak? But here's what he says. Great French, legendary mime, a real artist of all sorts. He says, the amateur is always pleased with themselves, but the professional is always worried because they know their life depends on what they do. And the fact that all of you are still listening to this, you're professional, you want to improve. The professional never stops learning. The amateur has swagger and the professional has learning and fear and interest and commitment. And so thanks to you two for hosting this and thank you to everyone for listening.

Yeah, and that is a great quote. And it reminds me of our friend, who I know you're very dear friends with, Steven Pressfield, who wrote the book the War of Art and many other great books. And it is. It's about being a pro. And if someone's ready to be a pro and step up and take it to that level, then that's what this whole episode has been about. So thank you very much and I'd like to encourage all of our listeners to share this episode with anyone in your life or business that you think could improve their communication skills. And that's pretty much almost everybody. And even people that are, you know, what's really funny is the very best that are good at what, you know, people saying, like, the best speakers and stuff, you're one of the people that, the best people in the world that this go to to get better. And so if you're, if you're awesome and you want to become more awesome, then, you know, do it. And this is the perfect time of the year to take this on as one of these, you know, skills and capabilities to develop. And I'd love to have you share your comments on ilovemarketing.com we will also put the link on ilovemarketing.com so you can get more information from Victoria. Again, the website she had put together without me even knowing she was going to do. This is rocktheroom.comILM so while it's fresh in your mind right now, go there and look at the video and download the ebook and. And give us your comments. Cool.

All right. Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Thank you. And have a wonderful day. And we'll talk to everyone on the next episode of I love marketing.

Okay, Rock on.

Sat.