From Spiritually Bankrupt to Joy as a Baseline: A Conversation with Omani Carson and Joe Polish

You know what?

I'm never going to be poor. I just hated that feeling. I was like, if I could ever have $10,000 in the bank, I wouldn't feel this way. And I remember getting the $10,000 and I felt the same way. And then it was a million. It became apparent there was no number that was going to matter. And everybody thought I had this most amazing life because I had all this financial success, all this material wealth. I wasn't happy and I was looking for happiness everywhere.

How can you be a domino for someone else? The Joe Polish Show. Any problem in the world can be solved with the right genius network. If you've ever built something successful and still feel like something was off, if you've ever hit a level most people aspire to and realize it didn't give you what you thought it would, if you've ever wondered what it actually looks like to evolve without burning everything down, this conversation is for you. Imani Carson is the founder and chairman of Carson Group. A national wealth platform managing over $50 billion in assets. He's also the founder and CEO of OMYA, an invite-only community for leaders expanding their consciousness, capacity, and impact. Alongside his wife, Jeanne, he co-founded Momentus, their multi-generational family office, and Dreamweaver Foundation, which fulfills end-of-life dreams for terminally ill seniors. But what makes this conversation different is not what he built, It's what he was willing to question. Today you're going to learn what happens when someone who's already won by every traditional metric decides to redefine winning entirely. You'll hear what it really looks like to move from fear and scarcity into alignment, abundance, and service without losing your edge, your ambition, or your results. You'll learn how to separate success from identity, how to face the parts of yourself that achievement can hide, and how to build a life that works not just on paper but internally. And maybe most importantly, you'll get a glimpse of what it actually takes to evolve, not as a theory, but as a live practice while still operating in the real world of business pressure and responsibility. This isn't a conversation about adding more. It's about becoming more honest, more aligned, and ultimately more effective. Today, Omani helps leaders by expanding their capacity, clarifying their purpose, and building legacies that endure personal, financial, and spirituality. His guiding principle is simple: create the goodest good for the greatest number of people for the longest period of time. Please help me welcome my new friend, Omani Carson. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay, so, you know, I've got a few questions here because I was like, man, we had a really great long Zoom meeting and then we've had a whole series of text messages, audio messages, videos, interviews, things to read back and forth. So what didn't I say that would be useful for people to know, uh, who you, who you are, who you really are? And kind of what you're here on the planet doing right now.

Yeah, well, before I even get into that, because I wouldn't be here without my beautiful wife, Jeannie. We've been together since we were 17 years old. And someone asked me the other day how we met. And she actually, this is her word, she stalked me. She started dating my friends and then eventually got to me. And then they were also in our wedding.

So how many are we talking here?

Well, how many on 2?

2.

I thought it was 2. But anyway, yeah. So she says 1. We'll see. Yeah. And there's that saying, but I think it's so true that, you know, you want to go fast, go alone. You want to go far, go together. And that's been us. You know, we've been— we've become— we've become one. I heard the piece on the relationship. That was really fantastic what you guys were talking about. This, by the way, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you. I mean, yeah, thank you. Just the community, the energy, all of you. We co-create these kind of meetings together. And Matt, my business partner, Jake, business partner. I just want to call out T. She works with me at the Healing Ranch in Nebraska. She serves rapé. Anybody in here ever done rapé before?

Oh my God. Yeah.

Like, she's— there's— I promise you. She's the best, the best I've ever had. And I've had people serve rapé before. For those who don't know, it's an Amazonian mixture of ancient tobacco and other material, and they blow it up your nose and— oh, I know. And for some, you think you're going to die, but that's only for a moment.

And then it's like you've just consumed so much wasabi. There you go.

Yeah, that's exactly it. No, the question you said about, you know, what, what, what, what did, what was left out? I was setting some context. I was setting some context and because it's, it's relevant to where we're at today. And then when I was 17, so we're both farm kids. Jeannie's dad was a farmer. My family farmed. And during the farm crisis, my, my parents went broke and it was the one and only time I saw my dad cry and it served my soul. It's like, you know what, I'm never going to be poor. I just hated that feeling. And I remember, uh, someone just shared they were in Grand Island for a couple of weeks. I was on my way to Grand Island, which is central Nebraska, for a meeting. I was like, if I could ever have $10,000 in the bank, I wouldn't feel this way. So that to me was what financial success was. And I remember getting the $10,000 and I felt the same way. I didn't feel good. I just felt so like I had to continue to sprint. I thought, well, maybe it's $100,000. And so I still remember the days, always did my balance sheet. It was January 3rd or 4th. It was a cold day in Nebraska. I remember seeing $100,200 and some odd dollars. Even I kept track of the cents in those days. Can you believe it? And, uh, and I felt the same way. I was like, wow. And then it was a million. It was, there was no, it became apparent there was no number that was going to matter. And so what did I do? I just kept going. I kept going hard. And everybody thought I had this most amazing life because I had all this financial success, all this material wealth. And as Jesse Itzler says, I was, I was spiritually bankrupt. My parents were also atheists. They didn't believe in anything. We had no spirituality whatsoever in our family. And so Jeannie and I, we got married. We had 3 kids. And, uh, and she will tell you it was, I mean, I just worked all the time. I was up sometimes in the office at 4, 4:30 in the morning. I worked 7 days a week and I said, oh, it's, I do it for us. I do it for the family. Why do you work so hard? And then, um, 11 years ago my mom died. And so that was the one person that I knew no matter what I did, there's nothing I could do to lose her love. And Jeannie says, hey. Put me in that category, but there's something about a son and her mom. And we had this very close codependent relationship. And when she died, I felt like I lost the one person that, um, that was always going to be there no matter what. I used to fantasize about anything I could do. I could go over, my mom would love me, and in her eyes I could do no wrong. But when that happened and I wasn't happy and I was looking for happiness everywhere, but here I didn't even know how to look at it here in my heart. And so we separated. I remember I walked out of the house and we were actually separated for 3 years, but something magical happened during that time. One, uh, we were working with the same therapist out of Chicago. Um, she was an amazing lady. She used to have a, her name was Dr. Laura. She was as a, like had a talk show at the time. You know, it's like we're small town kids. You got a talk show. You, You must be an expert. You must be the best at what you do.

And not the Dr. Laura, was it?

The Dr. Laura.

Laura Shushlinger. Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

The Dr. Laura. Okay. And Jeannie still works with Dr. Laura. I think you're more friends than therapists, though, relationship. But she's fantastic. And, and I said to Dr. Laura, I said, you know what, this isn't helping me. And I went— and she goes, you know what, I know someone I think that could help you. So she refers me to this guy in Venice, California. His name is Kourosh. Kourosh is an Iranian man. And there was just something about that conversation when he said, "You know what? Why don't you come work with me for a week? And I think I can help you." And so I went out. He said, "I want you unplugging. Not on your phone, no business. You can read, you can walk, you can get massages. You're going to be working with me every day, but that's it." At the end of that week, I was like, man, I've got tools. I remember giving him a hug as I was leaving his office. I was like, Kourosh, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you. And I just knew we were going to be lifelong friends because I felt like I had found a new way of thinking about my life and a new way of finding some security and some way of finding happiness. And this sounds weird to say, but I think I found just even love. I thought I had had love before, but I guess I really didn't know what love was. And there's infinite levels of what we can experience, what we call that feeling of love. And that was that piece I was missing, that thing that money wasn't giving me, but I was so elusive, but it's out there somewhere. Um, and I found it with him. And even in that week, I found a way to look in to my inner soul, you know, open my heart and close my mind and not be so cerebral and thinking about everything and overthinking everything. And, um, and as I'm walking out of the office, I'm like, remember Columbo? You know, he'd always ask that last question. I'm walking out of the office, I'm like, Kurosh, you know, since you had me so unplugged, I was listening to these podcasts and I read a couple books about psychedelics. And do you think I'd be a candidate? And he goes, absolutely. And I'm like, where the fuck was that all week? Why am I asking you about it? I mean, I was pissed. The old Type A came out. It's like, now I'm asking you, you're telling me I should do it? And he says, listen, the medicine will call you when it's ready for you. And he didn't even do it. He refers me to a doctor underground at Topanga Canyon. And keep in mind, Jeannie and I were drinkers. We didn't consider that a drug. And I couldn't imagine doing a drug. I did a paper when I was 10 years old on LSD and said if you did one hit, it would fry your brain. You remember those commercials we had? I mean, I was terrified. And so I agreed to have this conversation with the doctor. Deep down, it's like, I'm going to talk, but I'm never going to do anything like this. And so he has— and he's so responsible. We did all of these prep sessions and he goes, you're, you're not going to believe how your life is going to change. And in retrospect, you know, I had to be jolted to joy. You know, I love the breathwork. I love meditation now, but it didn't even— it was like firing a BB gun at a Sherman tank. It just wasn't even coming close. And he sent me a funny side story to this. I have to share this. He sends me this chocolate bar. That is psilocybin, which is mushrooms. He goes, I want to just— since you've never done any of this, I want you, when you've got a quiet time, I want you to take this. I want to see how— what you think of it, how your body reacts to it. So he gives me this chocolate bar. I don't tell Jeannie. It's New Year's Eve, and our kids— our kids invite us to a New Year's Eve party. And she's getting ready, and I'm sitting out on the couch. You know where this is going, right? Yeah. I'm sitting on the couch, and I go, you know, this would be a good time to try that bar. So I get the bar and I eat the bar and just before I take the last bite, I'm like, I wonder if I'm supposed to eat the whole bar. So I sent him a message on Signal, everything encrypted, you know, 'cause he's doing this underground. I had, hey Doc, I just wanted to be sure. I just did the bar. I was supposed to eat the whole bar, right? And he goes, no. And I'm like, oh my God. I run into the bathroom, she's getting ready. I'm like, I gotta throw up. I'm sticking my hand down my throat because I'm thinking I'm gonna die if I don't get this out of my system. I tell her what happened. She puts me in the car because now she doesn't want to take her eyes off me. Drive to Walgreens. It's New Year's Eve, line a mile long. She goes straight to the front of the line. I need Epikac, you know. Ma'am, we don't sell Epikac. Well, I have somebody that needs to throw up. What do I do? I don't know, try warm baking soda. So we tried all of that, nothing would happen. I mean, my throat was sore for a week from me sticking my fist down my throat trying to get this come out. And so the doctor said, listen, it's not going to hurt you, just lay down and enjoy the day. And we did. My daughter even came over and she was laughing and she goes, you're going to be fine, I've done mushrooms before, it's no big deal. I was like, you have? So that— I did end up going in January and he said, I'm really glad you did that because that whole bar barely registered with me. I took all these grams and it barely made a dent. And I ended up on my first psychedelic therapy, I had 14 grams of mushrooms. So those of you doing— that's a lot. I had a— I had 120 milligrams of MDMA. I did 5-MeO. It was a whole process throughout the whole day. I walked out of that, I was like, oh my gosh, this was like amazing. I found my spirituality. I felt so much lighter. And it was the very beginning of this journey of really learning about different ancient and sacred medicines and rituals. And to fast forward to today, I mean, I have a healing ranch, we're doing projects all over the world. And I can see me a mile away, someone that's insanely successful. I was at Abundance 360 here. I saw Eunice there a couple weeks ago. A couple of you were there, Mike was there. And I had a, 'cause there was a, Forbes did an article.

So a few people would recognize me.

I say, hey, can you help me? I've had this monetization, I have all this money, but I have no happiness in my life. And that's what I want to dedicate my life to. I said, what would the world be like if I could help shift operating system from fear and scarcity to love and abundance? Because the other thing that happened is it frees up those resources to do real projects, to really have an impact. And so today, you'd mentioned Omnia and Momentus. We've always been— Jeannie and I, and on Jeannie's lead, we've been very giving. You know, we, we, we're, we're not living our, our kids very much. As Buffett says, we're leaving them enough they can do anything, but not so much they can do nothing. And I so believe in the gift of struggle. Barry and I were talking about that, which I've known for a long time. And we, um, we— but so we've, we started Dreamweaver, and I'm proud to say in 14 years we've served 1.6 million, uh, seniors. You talk about a segment that's— that's not forgotten, but there's not enough resources, and they really suffer in silence. And we had seen a lot of things for kids but not for the elderly, and now we're one of them, hon, I'm realizing. And, and so our, our, our vision there is to create, uh, Make-A-Wish for the elderly through Dreamweaver nationwide by the time we're gone. And the other portion, most of our wealth, is going to go towards providing these services, um, for for those that, that need it. And, and so as I sit here today and I've just glossed over, you know, a long time period, I went from— Ronda and I, back to our, our childhood, the happiest day of the year was Christmas Eve. We would lay in bed together. We wouldn't go to sleep the entire night waiting for Santa Claus to come. And we were just so excited. It was just the happiest I can remember being in my life. And for the last 11 years, I've been like a 9-year-old on Christmas Eve every day, or 95% of the days. And it's really amazing. And, uh, and I've made up for that 51 or 50 years of, of really not being able to enjoy my life at all, not feeling safe, not feeling seen, really not feeling love. I just didn't know what it was or how to process it or how to feel it. And now trying to bring that to humanity one person at a time. And I will say there's there's these amazing communities propping up all over the world today. I'd said it in my opening comments when you asked me to introduce myself. People are getting involved. People want help. We realize that it's not— it's so cliché to say money doesn't buy happiness. I remind people, maybe it doesn't buy happiness, but it makes being miserable more fun. Maybe you got a little bit, right? But not much more fun. Not much more fun. Just a little bit more fun. Jeannie's been just an amazing partner on this. We've both done a tremendous amount of work during that 3-year period. And we've been able to come back together and just have the most incredible life ever. And one of the tips I would give you— some people say, how do you make it 44 years and be as happy as you guys are? Um, is really take care of yourself first. One of the things we teach in our coaching program is be selfless— to be so— to be selfish, to be selfless. You got to really start with you. It's so hard, especially for Moms that are working, you know, they just seem to— they can deplete themselves really, really quickly. And we both advocate for our well-being first so we can truly be there for each other.

Yeah, awesome.

Wow.

Well, boy, there's, uh, I guess I have some constructed questions that I've, you know, really think are thoughtful. And, um, so when you officially killed off Ron formerly Ron Carson, to become Omani. What part of your old self were you most afraid to lose, and what part were you most relieved to bury?

By the way, the, the official name is Tate Omani. It's Lakota. And through the— our healing ranch in Nebraska, I did some work for some indigenous chiefs, and they gave that to me. And it means walking into a stiff wind. The part that I wondered when I went from the insane drive to where I'm at today, was I going to lose my, my drive? Was I going to lose my ability to really push myself? And I'd say I probably don't push myself as hard, but I push myself plenty, plenty hard. And so that was the part I was worried about losing. And, uh, and I would say it moderated in a, in a, in a beautiful way. But what I gained on the other side of that is like a whole new world. We do this protocol now. We're supposed to call it a ceremony, a ceremony because we're a church for all the legal reasons. And I've been able to just feel the most love and aliveness. And I don't do them very often. I mean, I think it's been— how many years has it been since we've done a journey? 3 years. Yeah. And it— but boy, in that first— I did, I did like 6 over a period, the first 2 or 3 years. And I was able to retain about 60% of the benefit of that. But the downloads I got on creativity, like around my personal life, around my, my relational life, my personal life, um, I gained so much. To answer your question is I didn't want to lose the drive. I retained enough of the drive to be healthy, but also gained this whole new world and I've been in this form, I call it creator mode. I don't live in this savior-victim-perpetrator triangle, the drama triangle that we're all so familiar with. I was able to move out of it through this work. And I viewed my entire life as a bag of ingredients. And I was able to dump them all out. And I do this periodically. I literally, metaphorically and literally, have this bag I carry around. And every once in a while I dump it out and I go, do I really need— I want my bag as light as possible. What goes back into the bag? But when you create creator mode, especially when you've got some life experience and go, what am I going to carry forward? And what am I going to give grace to in the past? Not carry forward. That I get to then really know, live in personal integrity with yourself, like being true to you and your needs, not what society says or what you think people are going to, how they're going to want you to show up, but how you need to show up because there's only one true you. Then you start to attract people. You really don't attract everybody. You attract a very few, but you really— it's a powerful— like when we had our dialogue, immediately I knew I liked you. We had that connection. But most of the time I have a conversation, it's like interesting, but not— I'm not really dialing with that frequency. And it also attracts opportunities as powerfully as it attracts souls into your orbit.

So, yeah, I think you kind of answered what the— this question is, but I'm going to ask you anyway just in case. So You have said that fear and scarcity were the engines that built your $35 billion empire. So what is the actual measurable win, uh, that you found in this, um, new life that doesn't show up in a P&L, uh, statement? Is it, is it, uh, living personal integrity with yourself? Is it something else?

It's, it's that, Joe, but it's just joy. Yeah. I mean, joy. It used to be I could have moments of happiness. I had a big deal that closed or an event or some moment. But now I'd say joy is just the baseline. It's a platform at which I operate. I wake up in the morning, like this morning, we have a home out in Fountain Hills, and I get up in the morning and I have just silence where I'm just with me. I'm not on my phone, I'm not doing anything, and I'm really happy to be with me. I love my alone time. I don't feel lonely. I have so much abundance in my life. But really just being able to be in that sacred space with myself, really getting to know myself.

Do you think you could have gotten there without the medicine journeys?

No.

Okay.

No.

Yeah, and so this is something that those that are able to say or willing to say, how many of you have done a medicine journey before that are in the room? Yeah, quite a bit. And now, I think it's a mixed bag. I think there's a lot of people running around encouraging things that are not— I don't think they should be doing it. And so it's funny, years ago in the early '90s, I spent an hour backstage of a rave event. I was drunk with Timothy Leary for an hour.

Wow.

Fucking weird dude. And I was really intoxicated. But it was very strange because he's the one, I think it was in the '50s, where he said set and setting, right? Which you hear a lot of people repeat. It's the mindset you're in, it's the setting that you're in. And so it's not just the medicine, it's everything. It's how you go into it, it's how you're led through it. So because anytime I have a conversation like this with someone that a lot of people look up to and admire, you could have influence on what people are gonna run out and do. And I always make jokes with Annie, a lot of my friends go to Burning Man, they get high in a camper and they call it a spiritual experience. And there's a lot of people that go and have a spiritual experience in a camper, it could be anywhere, right? So part of it's jokingly, but also is I want to be very cautious when talking about certain things like, what are you trying to do? Where are you going to get to? And I want people to be expanded by anything that I put out there that may cause them to think or do something in a certain way. So, what recommendations would you have for— we're sitting in a room of very successful entrepreneurs. Some are going through the dark night of the soul right now. And how do you approach it?

I love it that you're bringing this topic specifically up. And that is there's so many people out there that are just dropping in. Opening people wide up, and then they just go back to their life and they can't handle it. It's—

you—

there's a lot of prep work. We call it, you know, post— pre and post-integration. You know, where are you at in your life? Do you have a qualified person that is really trained, you know, to handle and hold the container for what you're about to experience? And then afterwards, you're going to find— you're going to— you're going to taste this world and you'll go, Oh my God, I don't want to be in this other world. How do I function? How do I show? I mean, I was CEO of Carson Group for a big chunk. I remember Bain Capital came in and they took a minority interest in our company. And I said, hey, I just want you to know this is the stuff I'm into. And one of the partners was like, that's really cool. I was like, we don't really care. I was like, but I also want you to know we're doing it really responsibly. It has been a boom to our business. There's all kinds of people. We did more business. We're about $60 billion in assets. We did more in the last 60 days. We did the first 30 years of our organization. And we are— that's that frequency. It's dialed in. People are coming and wanting to do business with us because of the work we're doing, because of the impact. And there's a big responsibility that comes with that where you and I say something, people are going to be interested in it. Just don't— hey, I've got someone, they do it in their part-time on weekends when they're not doing whatever. That's not what you want to have. And the true medicine isn't the medicine. The medicine allows you to taste what's possible. The true medicine is the work that you do. We have a joke at the ranch, like, the experience you have, you're gonna love, but that's like having sex. You can have sex. You impregnate the baby and then you got to care for the baby. You got to raise the baby. You got to raise the child. You have to have the birth and you got to raise the baby. That's what you're birthing. It's a lifelong commitment to continuously doing the work on yourself, with yourself, and within community. These kinds of communities— I see how connected you all are. This— I mean, when you leave, not just the ideas, But it's the connection you have with each other that makes you feel fantastic, even when someone's— especially when someone's sharing a hardship, dark night of the soul, being boldly vulnerable with each other in a container that's safe to do so. So the real, real medicine is, yeah, you have an amazing experience, but it really just lets you drop into another world. But you need to be really a conscious citizen of that world with everybody there. You're there with to support each other, to help each other grow, to be safe with one another. And you'll function just fine in the regular world because you know you've got this other world that cares and loves you and you can return to it anytime. Yeah.

You know, I want to mention too, so Brittany gave a short talk earlier, Brittany Anderson, and about execution stuff. And I mean, I think you said the key word that doesn't just apply here, but like with almost everything, which is integration. I mean, if you do not integrate what it is you learn into what it is you're doing, then certainly doing medicine journeys without the— it's like the before, during, and after. Dan Ingle, who's been a friend of mine for many years, so Dan's known as one of the top psychiatrists in the world that uses plant medicines and psychedelics for addiction, PTSD, depression, etc. And he, like when Tim Ferriss was first starting to explore this whole space, he called me up. Person that you know in ayahuasca and ibogaine. And I had done— I was the first person in the world to have before and after brain scans of doing ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT, which I did in 2015 in Mexico, in Tijuana. And Dan was there and Dr. Martin Polanco, and these are people that are very big in the medicine space. So I referred them to Tim, and then I told Tucker Max about the journey. And Tucker had never done any plant medicines before. And it got him interested in doing like medicine journeys. And now Tucker's become this big, you know, spokesperson over the last, you know, almost decade in this space. And, you know, I've had all these conversations about medicines and about integration and about what do you do before, what do you do after, how do you do it, what does it actually do for you? And I've— one of the things, I was on an airplane with Dan a few years ago, and he had done his He had just done his 250th ayahuasca journey because he's a guy that would go out into the jungles. I mean, he would live in different parts of the world, South America, for sometimes months at a time. And he said, "I finally really figured out, even though in my head I could say it," he goes, "but the medicine doesn't do the work for you. It just presents to you the work you need to do." And he's like, and that's really You know, that was his insight. And I see a lot of people that do a lot of medicine journeys and they— I mean, I know some people that are addicted to doing freaking medicine journeys.

I mean, it's an issue. Like, anything can be abused. And in this space, peak experiences are— I feel like they're abused. People are constantly chasing it. And we have, again, going back to what we do, you get very specific directives. You know, we record it for you. You want to clear those directives because otherwise the very same things are going to come up. Well, after you've done a few, if we've done— if you've done your work and we've done our work in supporting you, you don't really have any more directives. And so there's really not a need to do it. Now, microdosing and some other things that I strongly recommend, that I do to this day, can really help with your creativity, but you really don't feel it, you know. You're just, you're just in a, in a state. So I agree with that, that be careful.

Yeah, and you know, me and Jeff Hays, so I became friends with former Governor Rick Perry, who I think has been instrumental in moving forward the legal use. He doesn't want to just make it available for everyone. I think that's one of the biggest dangers is just give people a big pot of something and not have the integration in the proper way to take people through it. And he— we did this amazing filming for him for one of the Maha Films on addiction and trauma. And he said to me, he said, "I don't think I'd be as sharp physically. I think it's making me better." He goes, "It is." And he said, "I used to be a lock 'em up Republican that threw away the key." And he goes, "Now I see this as one of the greatest things for humanity." and it's just fascinating.

He, uh, so we do this gathering at the ranch every year called Heartland Gathering. Love that. If anybody wants to come, let me know. But Rick came this year, Rick Perry, because we were part— we were— we— that's one of the things we invested in is we helped fund that initiative to get actually passed in Texas. And what was cool about the gathering, this is hope for the world. You've got someone about as far right as they can get And we also at the gathering had about as far left as you can get. But the whole point here is, is when you come together, we have way more in common than we have differences. This is what's exciting about the future for humanity and people starting to really do this work is we, we're humans. You know, you take the two most diabolically opposed people to each other on the planet and put them on the opposite ends of Mars. And let them think they're there by themselves for 6 months, and then they run into themselves one day, they're gonna be the best, best friends ever because they have each other and they're humans and they really get along. Uh, and but the narrative is being controlled by a small, small percentage of the people in the world today, not the will of the people. And I really believe this rent— this, this process of discovering ourselves and the self-healing is what's going to heal the planet and allow the people to take the planet back, because I don't believe the people— we have so much abundance and we're not— and we're allowing kids to die of starvation and lack of clean water and there's a whole variety of other issues when in fact we have plenty on the planet.

Yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you, if it was up to me, I would take every world leader, especially the ones that are causing trouble and violence and have them all go through a medicine journey, I think it would totally change the world. It just, I mean, there's a lot of people that make AI videos about it, but to actually really have it happen.

That one with Trump is really good.

Oh yeah, the ones with that, yeah. Bibi, I mean, all of the world leaders, like, yeah. Akira, we've actually been emailing with, or texting with the guy that does most of the ones with all of the different, you know, the leader of North Korea, like everyone, puts them all together on their medicine journeys and Elon Musk. It's the most wild shit, but to actually have it really happen would be wild. So, how has your definition of winning shifted since you started using these plant medicines, doing this deep dive into your own consciousness?

Yeah, that's an interesting way to position it. Winning is showing up every day that you're content, you're happy, you're joyful. It has nothing to do with financial. Metrics anymore. Yeah, it's like Jeannie will say, and you can hold me accountable here, hon, she's a— we have a thing saying we're truth givers, truth receivers, like with each other. We really— and she said to me this morning, she goes, you're, you're, you're crabby this morning. And I've been going through— I've got a lot of pain in my shoulders, arthritis, and exploring treatments. And I said, I'm just in a lot of pain, hon. And, uh, but My patience. I didn't used to have any patience, and I feel, other than maybe this morning, I have, right? Yeah.

I used to have a little sign up there. I think it's in the men's restroom now since we did the remodel that says, why is patience a virtue? Why can't hurry the fuck up be a virtue? But no, I hear you. Like the driven race, like impatience is hell, which winning in business is an advantage, but it depends on what metrics you define winning by.

And if you're constantly under that, it's exhausting.

Absolutely.

It's absolutely no fun. And, you know, I've evolved to— Raj Sisoda and John Mackey, who started Whole Foods, they're part of what we're doing. Conscious capitalism. I mean, I'm a capitalist. I believe in capitalism. It's done more to lift humanity than any single thing ever. But it's not— Milton Friedman wrote a paper in the '70s. It's a sole focus of a corporation to maximize profits for its shareholders at the expense of everything. And that couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is, if you have balance where everything's being taken, the internal stakeholders, external stakeholders, you know, Pachamama, you know, planet Earth, that all of them are taken care of, profit is actually greater over a long period of time. It may, it may suffer in the short run as you try to equalize and balance these things out, but it's like a balanced approach. And so it's not willing at all costs, it's winning with everybody being nurtured and taken care of within the ecosystem.

Right, right. And being able to sense where you have pain inside. And this is funny because I'm actually— this is what's going through my mind right now. Um, so I didn't say this in the beginning, but anyone that's watched this on video, so I'm going on about 11 days of tinnitus in my brain. And I was watching this other guy that has it. He says it's tinnitus. And so I still don't know the proper pronunciation, but I got this buzzing in my head. So I've been trying to hydrate a lot and I have to pee like a racehorse right now, whatever that means. But, and I've never said in an interview, I gotta go pee. So what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna just throw out anything for you, let you talk while I run and use the restroom.

You're gonna say you gotta go pee?

I'm literally gonna, I'm going to get up and I want this on video too, 'cause I just think it's kind of funny. 'Cause more so I wanna watch it later and be like, I can't believe I actually said this shit. But it's like, uh, but the, the point is, I, uh, how much do entrepreneurs numb themselves with work and activity, uh, and they shut off the signals, uh, because I think life is continuously giving us signs and I think we numb it. I think we hide it. I think we try to escape from it. And oftentimes, you know, you, you, you build up this pressure valve And that's where impatience, or that's where anger, and that's where frustration, and then it manifests in all kinds of different health conditions. And then that leads to a spiral of broken relationships, unhappiness, and disconnection. And I think when we first talked, I mean, I could tell you're just a really tuned-in guy, but you're also out there looking to be more tuned in. I mean, you're not like, oh, I've got it all together. You're like, man, I've just, you know, you have this, childlike wonder, which I think is really cool. Thank you. And because, you know, most people— like, how many team members do you have?

Ooh, it depends on how you count that. I mean, directly that work with me now, Omentis and OMI, I think we're 21 or 22 team members.

Yeah. But your whole organization has a couple thousand, right?

Couple thousand, yeah.

So I mean, you've had to build this big sort of thing. I think one of the hardest parts that I've seen with— because, you know, I know a lot of pretty successful people by society's measures of success, and I think one of the biggest things they wrestle with is their identity. And you can have this life that just, you know, it may have a lot of wealth, a lot of status, but they're just not happy. And to be able to drop that identity, and I think that's what I admire so much in you, is you've really questioned that and you've really I mean, you changed your name. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's, that, you know, that, that's a big part of it. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to step off, I'm going to go, and I'd like you to bestow the best wisdom you possibly can in 2 minutes, and I'll be back, and then we're going to open it up for some Q&A with everyone, if that's cool.

All right, cool, cool.

Yeah, wish me well.

Yeah, enjoy. One thing, I don't know how many of you are 50 or older in the room, we, we pee all the time, don't we? Yeah, I'm 61 now, and It's like, you, because you try to hydrate more, cuz you've learned to hydrate and you can't hold it as much. No, what Joe Polish said is so true. This, um, just distraction, you know, just constantly. I remember occasionally I would get caught up on my, I, one of the time management things, Brittany, you can relate to this. We used to teach 6 most vital one. So part of our coaching program, every night where you go to bed, the 6 most important things you gotta get, by the way, If you want to get insane number of things done, I want to give this time management list of the 6 most important things you got to get done the next day in order of priority. They have to all be tied to your long-term goals, and we teach the blueprinting process. You have 30-year, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 1-year goal. All those 6 most are tied to your 1-year goal, which are tied to your 30-year goals, and it gives you the ability to act when motivation isn't present. Gives you the ability to refocus once you get interrupted. And you do this and your subconscious mind will work on the solutions. And I remember very rarely would I get all 6 items done on a day, but if I did, I was like, oh my God, what the hell do I do now? Because I don't want to have to sit there and just think about anything else. And then once we get home at night, I couldn't wait to get home and drink every single night. I mean, so I went from one numbness to another numbness and then right back up. I would work out. Go in, do my 6 most vital ones, which, by the way, I really enjoyed, but I quit doing it once I stepped down as CEO 2 years ago. And I don't get nearly as much done, but I enjoyed not being on that treadmill of just constantly grinding. Another thing I want to give you on things that have worked really, really well for me, if I said, "I wish I would have known years ago," One is, Judy and I put— how many of you feel like you sacrifice but unintentionally sacrifice? You say yes to things in the future, and then you get to that point, you're like, why am I here? Why did I say yes to this? And so my CEO now, his name's Burt Weiss, doing a great, great job at Cars Group. He said, you know what, pretend that the item— because Present self will overcommit future self. So pretend the item you're about to say yes to next year is tomorrow instead. It's like, whoa, that's really good. I'm telling you, it works, and it'll keep you out of a lot of stuff. The other thing Jeannie and I say, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a fuck no. Like, we live our life saying yes to stuff in between, and then when really cool stuff comes up, we're overcommitted and we can't go do it. So those are the two big aha's I would give you that have been ah-ha's of my life and Jeanne's around really managing your energy on time?

What didn't ask about something to be shared before we bring an end at least this chapter...

The one thing— tell me if it doesn't resonate with you, Joe Polish Polish polish Polish—the first experience when he had his encounter; there was no emotion involved! No emotions were felt by him or anyone else who saw what happened for 2 years I after her accident until made she started talking again because then they could hear everything going through a their ears but not list anything coming out from behind them so yeah. So let me just say some things of like how do people see like us now since many times our experiences will hurt other folks' feelings even though those same events sometimes actually help others 50 heal themselves too right?! And also don't forget everyone has different ways of processing pain especially children think differently than adults can understand people why someone might feel sad today maybe tomorrow somebody won't know anymore exactly which way that does everybody process trauma okay well anyway thank God nobody died yesterday man oh boy yes indeed um these two books should definitely get 100% read uh "Aha!" „When You Are Sad" By Jeannie Lynchman That book talks specifically more deeply into grief recovery strategies along side all kinds of little quick takeaways here underneath each page including links below yep absolutely great questions thanks John Pauluski Thank you very much Jerry Dyer Jr.! Yeah... Well listen guys please remember once upon a day every had child learns love unless taught otherwise yet still needs guidance tonight while to listening may make sense hopefully do next week stories change alright till later bye-bye boys 'n girls.

it. Ahas I'd given ya've ever seen awesomesome stuff happen over the course of any year hey baby girl you're gonna find yourself falling back down off balance sometime soon huh Joey Polewski!? Oh geezie louisey Louisa May Alcott said best advice anybody gives another person isn't always good And enough hmmmm mmhmmm anyways hope that helps serve you both greatly enjoy I've reading Joyful Living Stories Today® www.joyfullivingstories.com learned, don't push it.

Yes. Let people— let it— yeah, let it find the people. So if you're curious and you hear me, this is something that you really need to sit with and decide, you know, that it's for you. Because people have bad experiences. They go in and it can be one of the most terrifying experiences that they've ever done. Jeannie's first journey was— she's like, fuck this shit, I'm never doing that again. And then, and then when you did the Heart Protocol, which is very gentle, and I think we have about 1% of the people have a bad experience, uh, with that. It's very gentle. But I'd say, you know, we have our experience, and I'm here to support, love, connect with people, uh, but yeah, not, not pushing people to do it.

Yeah, it's a very interesting question. I believe I've been very thoughtful about that. I mean, Jeff Hayes, we had one of his film crew come and film me doing it, and there's a part of me that it's like, you know, I didn't want to peg myself as just a plant medicine person because I have an addiction recovery foundation and there's many different ways. I am on the search for finding— you know, the tagline is I want to change the global conversation about how people view and treat addicts with compassion instead of judgment and find the best forms of treatment that have efficacy and share it with the world. So part of it is finding out what works, why, and then tell people about it, right? As a form of educational platform. And, you know, we filmed that back literally 11 years ago. I mean, if I released that footage today, it would probably be very widely spread. And stuff, but it would also create a— and so I've been laying down the tracks and being as patient as I can because I've seen people that have had a really intense experience go and tell everyone and their brother about it and persuade them in ways like drag them into it, where I've seen a couple of people— most people have a very positive experience, but a couple have had psychotic breaks. I mean, it really screwed up their life. And so it's I've had conversations with Jordan Peterson about this because he's very much about you do this, you can have psychotic breaks and stuff. And Jordan's got his own thing. However, there's caution for sure. But when you're a promoter and we— look, every entrepreneur in here is in some way, shape, or form, you're a salesperson. You could have not built your companies if you weren't out doing your thing, right? So when you come across something that has a profound effect, you naturally want to tell other people about it. But there is a way that you got to be gentle with this. Don't push it too much and just let it integrate into you. I really think it is an integration process. And I also know that I wouldn't be having a conversation like this here today if I didn't want it to be positively influential. I don't want anything to contract me or my clients. I want to expand. So this is a whole conversation about expansion. You know, like Dan Sullivan talks about the— what is it— the pursuit of happiness in the— what is the document? The Bill Gary, help me out here. The pursuit of happiness, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, what it— Declaration of Independence. Yes, thank you. I'll tell you, when you have tinnitus, you can't think. Yeah, so it's like, it's not about the pursuit of happiness, it's the expansion of happiness, right? Because yeah, God-given right to pursue happiness. Well, we can pursue it, but a lot of people spend their whole lives pursuing happiness. And what I believe is the more you chase happiness, the more it runs away, you know. So you got to set up the conditions that expand it. And if I really pursue money, if I really pursue anything, it's elusive, it goes away. And so if you try to say, hey, I found happiness here and you're going to find it here, you don't know that, you know. So that's why I never tell someone what success is, because like, what right do I have to say what success should be for, you know, there's many people in there, success to them is raising a great family. You know, some people it's building a great business, other people it's really having a spiritual connection. Some people it's their body, it's their physicality. You know, there's, so we have, I think, a weird relationship with a bunch of people pontificating their value system and trying to lure their beliefs on other people.

That's where going into that creator mode is so critical because every ingredient you add back to move forward in the future is you're 100% in alignment with it. So only you— and the other thing I would share with the whole room, and especially the young, young, young professionals back there, is trust your instincts. The more you use it, the stronger that muscle gets, the more reliable. It's not going to be infallible, but I've learned the more I use my instincts, the more honed that they, they become. By the way, so our awakening was exactly about the same time. Really? Well, yeah, 11 years ago, 11 years ago.

You want to hear something really funny? So I had Daniel Amen do brain scans before and then after I did the ibogaine journey. And then Brian Hubbard, who's done a lot of work, him and Joe Rogan have this great interview on ibogaine, on Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard on Joe Rogan. And I'm in, spent the whole day at the White House. At the Maha report. And then I'm sitting there with Dana Kilpatrick, Brian Hubbard, Daniel Amen, and I get a text from a friend of mine who runs a multi-billion dollar company. Him and his wife and then another friend of mine at the time that— I'm still friends with her. At one stage in her life, she was one of the top dominatrix in the US and I helped her with all of this crazy trauma and shit that came from that life. And we— it was 4 of us doing ibogaine in Tijuana, Mexico. And I get a text, I kid you not, within 30 minutes of this meeting where I'm introducing Daniel Amen and Brian Hubbard, talking about ibogaine journey. And it was to the 30 minutes to the minute where I'm sitting there in the freaking White House talking about ibogaine. I was like, you can talk about coincidence, you can, synchronicity, I was like, how bizarrely weird is this? And here I am, and I had written into the Maha mission statement addiction recovery because they didn't have it written in there and I got them to write it in there because I said there's no Make America Healthy Again without addiction recovery. And so now we're co-producing the films with Jeff Hays and I think we have a real, way to influence. And we don't want to make it a political thing too. We don't want Maha to be around in administration. We want it to just be the starting point and a catalyst for, you know, because I believe the greatest work that I can hopefully start is going to see the light of day long when I'm no longer on this planet. But we can definitely lay the tracks, and I think that's what we're all trying to do.

Yeah, and the Maha movement, yeah, I agree, it needs to sustain beyond a political movement. And we gotta get rid of glyphosate. We've poisoned our food supply. It's really bad.

Well, you know what's funny too is me and Cheri, last year we had a guy who, I was here interviewing Kali Means, did two interviews with Kali, and one of the guys that was in the room, he's really pissed off. I never had someone in an interview come up to me, he's like, "What you're saying on there is wrong." I was like, and this guy was in the agricultural business, which I didn't quite know to what degree, but he sends me, 2 months later I get a 47-page letter sent to Gina completely saying, you know, what you're saying is wrong, and if what you're saying about glyphosate and about seed oils is true, I have to rethink the industry that I've been in for over, my family's been in for over 100 years, and it was a really, letters with charts about how glyphosate is safe and everything, but of course then I'm looking where are these, this research done by Monsanto and of course, but he says at the very end, if you actually wanna see how farmers grow food, come out to the biggest farming convention in Saskatchewan, which is aginmotion.ca. So there's 30,000 farmers and me and Sharif, First have a trip on Dr. Jeff Bland, who invented functional medicine. So we're on his boat with me and Sheree and Dr. Sashin Patel and his wife Deepa. And we're with Jeff Bland, and I'm having conversations for 2 days about seed oils and glyphosate and all these things that I know I'm about to go on this 4-day trip with all these, you know, organic farmers, conventional farmers, regenerative farmers, this big farming thing. Anyway, make a long story short, we get a whole deep dive from farmers that believe this is all safe. And I actually liked them all. I mean, they, they're brilliant at how they grow food and they believe they're feeding the world, which they are. And the system is so intricate that if you just removed every bit of glyphosate and everything, like there wouldn't be enough production in place to feed the world. And, you know, even Rob Syke, who was in at the very end, he's, You know, he's like, "If you're gonna make the choice to stop pesticides and stop this, 3 billion people on the planet are gonna die. Are you gonna choose who those 3 billion are gonna be?" And you know, but what's interesting, what we didn't know is on a couple of days into it, we drove out through all the farms and he's showing us fields that were treated with glyphosate, ones that were tilled, I mean, huge believer about how all this is safe. I filmed all of this. And he's showing earthworms, this is all treated with glyphosate, see these earthworms are fine. And we're almost like, I mean it's very convincing. And then at night after we have this beautiful dinner at his farm, we're driving back and I didn't realize that he's the largest seller of glyphosate in the entire country of Canada. And we go to the factory and we see these giant tanks. He goes, "We bathe in this stuff, it doesn't make us sick." But then I come back and I'm like going, huh? And then we have an interview with two people. I never released the interview yet. I've got all this footage, but I was like, I want to frame it properly because what I realize is that the farmers aren't talking to the doctors, the doctors aren't talking to the influencers, none of them are talking to each other, and there's propaganda with all of them. And I'm just this dumb guy that's interviewing people. I'm not an expert in this. I'm just trying to figure shit out. And there's a lot of things I don't even understand it at all, but it's fascinating. And then, you know, my friend David Azure who has, you know, Azure Standard, which is, you know, they deliver organic food nationwide. You know, I have a conversation with him a couple months ago and he said, the reason that you see so many joint replacements, shoulder, knees, hips, is started in the '90s when they released glyphosate because it's a nerve agent. And actually, that's what's causing all these joint replacements is because all of the glyphosate that we've been, you know, I never heard that before. And I'm like, but you're right, there's a lot of things and it's complicated. And I think the greatest thing with like Bobby Kennedy and Maha is at least they can't win every battle, but they're trying to win the war. And we have had a war on, like even you take the war on drugs as an example. Like I actually think plant medicines, I've thought about writing a book called A Drug Against War, not a war on drugs, but a drug against war because the drug against war are the medicines. I like that. They are that sort of thing. And maybe, maybe that's something we do as a collective or something. But yeah, I mean, it's complicated.

They told us, like, when we were growing up that the glyphosate was so safe you could drink it. Jeannie's dad died early. My uncle died in his 30s. My grandfather died of stomach cancer. I got lymphedema in my left leg, and I've got terrible arthritis in my shoulders and my neck. And it's all from the chemicals that we were around when they were telling us it was safe. And here's the other thing, is we are screwed right now as a country because the whole, all these farming operations are geared with equipment to only farm with glyphosate. And China controls the ingredients, you know, in order, so they could literally choke us off by refusing to sell glyphosate, which really is made by Bayer now out of Germany. It's not even illegal there.

Well, it's funny, when me and Cherie went on the trip, the guy set up a meeting with one of the heads of Monsanto. This lady who was running this whole department. And she was nice and she was smart. And I'm sitting there just trying to take it in, look at the human, then look at, do they even know? Do they believe? I don't think they believe they're doing, like, it's very convincing. And one other person worked for Monsanto for years that we met there and he said, oh, they're Monsanto. Monsatan is what he said, not Monsanto. And, you know, yeah, it's a complicated thing.

There's, but again, and back to the argument, I just want to challenge the argument because I used to buy this bullshit on the, we're gonna have to feed, we can't feed all the people. Fact is that it's very nutritionally low, the food produced through the glyphosate. If you eat whole organic foods, they are nutritionally so much more dense than the glyphosate product that we can get there, but it has to be a conscious effort. To get there and we can still feed everybody on the planet. We waste double the food it would take. We waste double the food it would take to feed the entire world every day.

Yeah, I believe, yes, for sure. There, I saw a talk where, and it was at one of Peter's events, where the, the lady said that, um, in, I think, I think the stats are to plate, uh, and I could be wrong here, so you have to whatever, use AI, determine the right number. I think in order to plate a meal in America from shipping, delivery, wastage, prep, 30— I think it's 37% of the food is wasted when it's plated. And then when it's done, another 37%. So we're eating maybe like 20% of the food that's even made. The rest gets wasted and discarded and stuff. There's plenty of resources. It's a distribution issue and it's how it's being done. So let me see, one other thing. Let me ask you this. In the midst of love and abundance, you still have to deal with the real world— lawsuits, corporate politics, and legacy systems. So how do you actually stay centered when the old version of the world tries to drag you back into a fight? And it happens occasionally, but I'm—

I stay grounded. I do my meditation. I get up. Jenny, talk about regimented I am and having my alone time. And, you know, I don't let my— I don't let the external environment dictate my feeling. I really don't. I used to. I, you know, something going on, it would weigh on me. I couldn't enjoy myself. It really is a choice. It really is a choice whether or not you're going to let— because at the end of the day, I remember I want to live in the moment. I want to love life. And I don't get overly high when great things happen, and I don't get low when they don't go my way. I try to stay in the middle. Right.

Which is really good. And I think a lot of the things here, because look, there's a lot of open loops here, especially the conversation on glyphosate and all the problems in the world. The beauty is we've got all these young people in the back, and if they're, if they're exposed to what's really going on in the world and they have empathy and they have drive and they have capabilities and we can provide them, then, you know, it's really carrying on and passing the baton on to other people because no one here is gonna finish every race. And in some races you can't, you know, you've only got so much capacity, right? And that's one of the booby traps is like, I want to fix this problem, I want to fix this problem. I mean, you're not gonna fix every problem, you know, and you can't fix the world with broken hands. I mean, you got to take care of yourself in the process. And so I think the real thing that, that I've taken away from this conversation is just the awareness of taking care of yourself. And by doing so, you've had the best, uh, that you've had in 2 months, uh, in your business, right? Yes. When you let go. Yes. Right.

You know, Wu Wei— who's familiar with Wu Wei? Google Wu Wei and go watch. There's several YouTube videos on this, but it's, it's around flow, not force. Okay. And they're really allowing things— like, it's powerful. It's, it's a, uh, it's a Tao Te Ching philosophy. It's really powerful. Awesome.

And I, and I say this, I have no idea what he's talking about, so I will— I definitely—

Wu Wei. W-U-W-E-I. Wu Wei.

I think I may have— I have to look and see. Yeah. Well, you know what, first off, uh, you're awesome. Thank you. Secondly, I'm looking forward to whatever the hell comes out of this because my sense is we're probably going to be doing a lot of interesting things together and we'll probably collaborate on, on a lot of different stuff. And how many of you found this valuable and insightful? Don't miss another episode of the Joe Polish Show. Subscribe today at thejoepolishshow.com. If you'd like access to the show notes to take action on what was discussed, please visit thejoepolishshow.com/56.

fix.