Genius Marketing with Dean Jackson and Jason Fladlien - I Love Marketing #311

What is genius marketing? Jason Fladlin joins Joe and Dean for a conversation about simple ways to get more leads, secrets for becoming a more effective marketer and more. Jason is co founder of Rapid Crush, a digital sales and marketing services firm with over a century of combined marketing and business management expertise. If you would like access to the full presentation, the show notes and the special resources for this episode, please visit ilovemarketing.com 311 that's ilovemarketing.com 31 1.

I'm Dean Jackson, he's Joe Polish and this is the I love marketing podc.

Well, hello, this is Joe Polish.

Wow, threw me for a loop there.

Go ahead.

Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson.

And you gonna say that first or do I need to start over again?

Let's just do it just like this.

It's live. Okay. Yeah. Here we are.

Threw you off sitting in the same room.

And who are you, sir?

I am Jason Flatland. I believe so on this podcast today.

Well, first off, I'm super excited for this episode because Jason is here with us. Jason, I honest to God believe to be one of the most brilliant marketers and just an all around great guy that I've ever met. And I've met, me and Dean have met everyone who's significant. If they have not met us and we're not friends with them, I don't really know if they hold dead to us. I'm totally kidding. There's a million people that are out there that we have not met that are amazing. But Jason is awesome. I want to give a little bit of background on you now. People that listen to the I Love Marketing podcast obviously know me and Dean, but they don't know you. And I want you to introduce yourself and also want to give some context around the episode that we're doing right now because we're doing it in a spare bedroom in one of my many locations that I call home, I guess.

Right.

And we're doing the Genius Network annual event starting tomorrow. It actually officially starts tonight. So there's a welcoming for all the new people that are part. But I'm not going to be running that. That'll be run by other amazing people that are on my team. So that's going to be over the weekend. And so we have a lot of things that we've been discussing. We had a really good discussion.

It's all very exciting.

Yeah. So Jason, who are you? What do you do?

I am Jason Fladlin and I do webinars. So a lot of people say I'M the best in the world at it, and I don't like to argue with popular opinion like that.

No, and you shouldn't. And really, I think you are. We just recently did genius webinars, where people can, even if they want to, learn how to. We have this all on video now, and it's all documented. So what we can do, we'll put on the show notes how to find out stuff about genius webinars, talk a little bit about how you got into this business, and about marketing. We'll just all have fun here. We'll just talk about marketing and stuff.

So this is actually really cool because Dean and I, for the first time last night, really had to sit down and have a conversation. I was telling Dean how the first money ever made online was through Evan Pagan, who, like, Dean and him, go way back in the day. And so it's just so funny how all of these circles eventually kind of overlap and connect together. And so I started making Money Online in 2007 selling affiliate stuff and ghostwriting articles for other marketers. And eventually I was, you know, I wanted to sell my own stuff and get rich. And so I figured out that the webinar was the emerging technology to do that. And I like to sell, and I like to be in front of people that like to buy. And so I just kind of made that my mission. And then from that, we just. We found the best opportunities that we could create value for people and sell to them at the end, something even more valuable. And I just went deep in it. I started. I joined Genius Network a couple years back. I think it was three years ago at this point. And then I joined 100K because I'm a firm believer in buying your way right into the top. You know, it's like you could spend time or you can spend money. And so because of that, I just.

Going double diamond next year.

Double diamond, right. I'll be the first guy. I'll spend as much money as I can until I run out of it if I have to. I will take out loads.

You'll meet Xenu at the next level.

Yeah, I don't need both of my kidneys. You have two kidneys, right? Yeah. Anyway, so I got to know Joe over the years, and then Joe's introduced me to so many wonderful people. And I'm just kind of in that mode of just like what this podcast is about. Like, let's spread the gospel of good marketing to replace not so good marketing and make the world a better place in the process.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's good. And, Jason, you have a really unique knack of explaining things that are complex to many people in very simple ways. You're very strategic. You're not theoretical. You talk about what works. You test stuff. You're just like me and Dean. I mean, we've talked in the very beginning. We tell our stories. People that are brand new to. I love marketing. If you just happen to stumble on this, people, like, what episodes should we listen to? And we always go back and say, listen to the ones we originally started doing. When do we start this thing? 2009?

2010, Christmas of 2010. So all of 2011 was, like, basically the first.

I think it might have been before.

That, but I think it was 2000, Christmas of 2010, when we had that conversation and started it out. But you're right. Like, the first. Those first 10 episodes of the podcast are really like our full backstories. And got up to the point where we are right now.

Yeah. And one of the things we did, too, to remind people that may have heard this before, they've listened to every episode. And we do have a few of those people, several people that have listened to every episode we've ever done twice, which is like, that's a lot. I mean, we're talking 600 plus hours of their time to consume that. And one of the things that we talked about in the very beginning of I love marketing was let's just share stuff without teasing people. I mean, it's going to be conversational. It's not going to be totally scripted. We're going to goof around a lot. You know, some people may not like that.

They'll be like, you guys need to.

Get right to the point. You need to have the very best quality recording. We're like, look, I did my first podcast in 2005 with Alex Mendozian, of all things. So, I mean, I think I'm one of the few people in the world that has even done a podcast. Right. When they first started this platform called podcasting, no one even knew what the hell it was back then. And we said, let's just share the very best information. Stuff that's better than what most people charge for for free. And let's not try to sell anybody anything. Let's just do that for a while until people start complaining that we're not selling. If you look back at the very first reviews, people are like, I don't get what you guys are doing. What's going on here? You teach us how to Sell stuff.

But then you're not trying to February, they were demanding that we sell them something.

Right. We still do a piss poor job of selling stuff. On the podcast. On the podcast. But you mentioned Eben Pagan and one of the things that Dean Jackson's literally credited for inventing the Squeeze page. What else is it called? I mean, there's all these different names, what all different names do that you've heard squeeze pages call.

Well, I mean, the general idea I was explaining to Jason is that Jonathan Meisel named it the Squeeze page. But this idea, the way I discovered it, was experimenting and taking away every other option but leaving your name and your email address. Every time I took away options, response went up. I was explaining to Jason last night that the very first one that I did was using the compelling copy, like the table of contents of Cosmo magazine, like just compelling articles. And instead of saying click here like most websites do to go to this thing, I would say free inside and then the next one and it would be more inside and free inside. And then you would get to the opt in part and it would say free instant access and have their name and their email. So it was no, you want. You either want this stuff. It's like looking through the window at it and all you have to do is open the door and come inside and there it all is. And that was the highest, like converting option that I have. I started using that exclusively.

Yeah, and so you created it. But see, that's. That is a psychological analysis of what is going to lead someone to do something and how do you make it as friction free as humanly possible and how to use technology to do it. Because before that there was no social media like there is today. There was no Facebook, there was no Twitter. There was none of that stuff that existed. I remember even seeing a picture yesterday. It looked like one of these old Norman Rockwell type of paintings with kids holding hands, kind of spinning in a circle. And it says, you know, when I was young, my social network was called outside. You, like go outside and play with people, right? But you ended up teaching Evan Pagan how to use the same model for what ended up him building the largest online dating advice business with double your dating and for men and catch him and keep him for women. And then Jason, you talked about that, and it's funny because Eben is actually at my home in Paradise Valley right now, staying there with Annie and their daughter. So as we speak here, everyone's congregating. I love it because I mean, what we're going to Start tomorrow is the highest level marketing event that has ever taken place in the history of the world. I mean, we're running this thing tomorrow. Jason is one of the very first speakers that's going to speak at this thing tomorrow. Let me ask you, Jason, like, so you have studied everything from Milton Erickson to psychology to all the greatest copywriters to. You're an expert in conversion, you've mastered webinars, you're an expert on selling on Amazon. I mean, there's so many different, I mean, thousands of different places that you've pulled information from. I mean, you blew away Robert Cialdini because when he came to a 100k meeting, I remember him commenting that I've never seen a better application of influence ever in his 30 plus years of teaching. Influence. You're talking the world's highest level, the most cited social psychologist alive. You could do a presentation there and you blow away Robert Cialdini. He's like, oh my God. And so you're sitting. I remember you sitting there with Bobette and Robert and kind of showing them how to market their stuff, which is great. How would you even define marketing? What's marketing to you? What is it? Why do you like it so much? Because here we are and I love marketing.

So marketing is one of the most honest ways that you can see what somebody will do. Anybody will say, I'll do this, or I stand for this, or I believe in this, or you know, if you know, this is who I am and this is the kind of character I am. But then ask them to spend their money to prove it. And it's funny on what they say and what they do, how different those two things are. So psychology is my most fascinating subject that I like to study. But psychology can be very deceptive in terms of the conclusions that it can reach. But by our psychology is very clear and simple. Did they buy or did they not buy? And that's where it all is rooted for. Because it's my fundamental belief is that in order to improve somebody's life, a behavioral change has to occur. If I learn something but don't apply it, I don't believe I've actually learned anything. And I think one of the best ways to create behavioral transformation is to get them to invest both time and money to make that transformation occur. And so think about the perspective of that, though. If I believe that about marketing and these are all definitions that each of us have that form our own model of reality. But if that's what guides me, you can understand how I'M compelled then to go out there and market because of my definition that I've created around that. So that's a really good question, Joe. I feel like it's one of the almost only honest things you can do because we can argue about whether somebody's gonna do or do something, but put a buy button in front of them and then you'll find out, do they really want to get better at this? Are they really willing to make a decision to show put their money where their mouth is.

Anybody can wear the Make America great again hat what they do in the VOT booth.

That's absolutely right.

Interesting, interesting. So, that being said, why do you think people consider marketers and salesperson? I don't say everyone. I mean, obviously we all have a real respect for marketing. And one of the things that I've said many times is that we can teach people techniques. Like the I Love Marketing podcast is all of the knowledge, products, information, products, courses, trainings, seminars. Everything that we do are filled with strategies, methodologies, processes, techniques that people could utilize in their business, their personal life in order to affect a result. So we have a high respect for it. What I often think about a lot is that the number one obstacle that we have with helping someone with marketing is this getting them to place any value on it, having them to have a mindset that this is important, this works, you're not taking advantage of somebody. There's a lot of preconceived notions, though, that salespeople and marketers are somehow thieves. And certainly because you can point to people that will use marketing in medieval ways. What are your thoughts about the perspectives that a lot of the world has about marketing and about marketers that are misconceptions that are.

I don't think they are misconceptions. First of all, you know, I think the reality is most marketing is done very poorly. Most marketing is disingenuous. Most marketing is purely manipulative from a negative perspective, where they want to get something from you that's unequal to what they give in return in their favor. Right. So I think it's absolutely appropriate. Appropriate for people to give marketing the rep that it certainly earned. But at the same time, it's also the thing that makes businesses work or don't work. And so therefore, just because most people do it badly doesn't mean it's a bad thing. The real beauty about marketing is it's the only way that you're going to get a message out there. And so you might as well be deliberate about it. Now, if you can influence it and you have the ability to choose to do it with more intention, more purpose, and in a more value add environment, then it becomes a good thing. But, you know, it's in the hand of the person doing the marketing. And ultimately there's three options. You either can do the crappy marketing that most people do, you can not do marketing and then lose, or you can do effective marketing, win more than the guys doing the crappy marketing, and actually create everything that you want to get out of your business too at the same time. So, yeah, I don't know. I just ducked the whole thing. It's like labels are labels. You can call it good, you could, we call it bad. But do you want to achieve a certain objective? Okay, what's needed to achieve that objective? Well, we got to reach people. Well, not only do we got to reach people, we got to compel them to give us a piece of their attention span and then have them follow and listen to us. You call that marketing? You can call it whatever the hell you want to call that, but that needs to be done. And so let's do it in the most effective and ethical and compelling way possible. That's just how I look at it.

Awesome.

What do you have to say about this, Mr. Jackson?

Well, I've thought about it a lot.

Thriller. Thriller.

It's so funny.

Yeah, go ahead.

I've thought about it a lot. I mean, that's a good explanation of it because there's so many just calling it labels. It's really, at the end of the day, it's about taking somebody from a position where they don't know about you, they don't know about your product, they don't know about the transformational benefit that they're going to get from taking part in it and moving them all the way to where they know about you. They like what you're doing and they get the transformation. All those steps in between. No matter if you can do it in one step and get them there, or whether it takes multiple steps over a period of time, that's the objective. So that's where I look at things like the Squeeze page as the simplest way. I'm a big, big fan of the 80% approach or looking at the just focusing on the objective and getting to the point if starting to think about this, where if you look back historically at the things that I've done or introduced or been part of, they're generally the most simple way to get a result. The objective, if I really think about it, this Was the thought that came from that created the squeeze page is my objective. If I could just pick one objective when somebody comes to my website, is that I want them to leave their name and their email address. That's the only objective I have. What's the fastest way, the way that's going to get me the most of that objective? And it was making it the only option for them to do on the page that got more people. Now when I look at it, then incrementally, the next thing I want to convince them, or not that I'm convincing them, but providing, educating and motivating them so that they convince themselves that this is the next step is the right thing for them. And if I can do that in the shortest possible way, I found that's where things like the nine word email come in. You opted in because you wanted this guide to Halton Hills real estate prices 90 days ago and you didn't engage with us then. So now if I send you an email and say, hey, are you still looking for a house in Georgetown for you, that's the fastest way to get to the objective. I'm not trying to convince you to buy a house in Georgetown. I'm just saying, are you still interested in buying a house in Georgetown? And the magic of those words, the implication of course is still, I know that you were. And I'm only ever speaking to the person who is. I only ever speak to the five star prospects, the ones that I want. I'm never taking into account. People always try and middle their message in case somebody. If you're thinking about buying a house in Georgetown or if you're accommodating the people that aren't, I don't care about the people that aren't. I'm only speaking to the people that are. And I'm sending an email like they're the only person getting that email.

Right.

And it's fascinating, you know.

So let me, let me play a little bit of devil's advocate here, just for shits and giggles, I guess that's the technical term, by the way. So we have had numerous episodes where we talk about different techniques. Like you take your magic nine word email, clearly it has made people millions of dollars. You take the squeeze page. You created that process. Hundreds of millions of websites have used it. Still do, right? Consumer awareness guides, different ways of packaging and positioning, pre recorded messages. All stuff I've put, I mean, it's generated billions of dollars for people that are out there using it. There is no way that anyone could argue against Results because we have droves of documentation, video, audio, written testimonial over a 20 plus year period of people that have made a ton of money. Now there's still the people out there that will hear this and it's. I don't know if it's Emerson or whatever the quote is. You ask for a new idea when you haven't use the first one that I gave you. I love that one. We've got all of these people that can hear this and they could go and execute upon it or they could use it or they can send a magic nine word email and they would probably make either a lot of money or a little bit of money, but it certainly would most likely in most cases, if someone's not selling crap to people and what they're selling, people actually want and they're able to weave together nine words of which we've done entire episodes just on that they could go and do well with it. But they don't. And they don't quite understand it in the way that all of us do because we have immersed ourselves, we have literally laid down tracks of context and understanding that have got us to see this world in a certain way. And so for people that for whatever reason they like think, well, no, I don't want to just, I want to give people an opportunity to go to a website and not it's bullying them if I just ask them for their email or it's like I want to show them all of the other stuff to build rapport with them before we ask them for an email.

That's a great question. So I look at it exactly the opposite, that I just look at the landing page as a way to get them. What compelled them to get there in the first place? People aren't stumbling on websites just out of the blue. You had to do something to compel them to go to your website. So I look at it that if I'm doing something, if I'm offering somebody a book@emailmastery.com they go and I've got a picture of the book. I've got. This is what you can get. And then when they go to email Mastery, the only thing they see is a picture of the book and the offer to leave your name and your email address. So I look at it as confirming that you're in the right place. It's almost like. And I think the reason that they get such high opt in rates is because you're not adding any new information. You're saying you're in the right place. Like, it's like if we're walking down the street and we're walking in a city and there's a, it's a hot day and there's a sign that says, you know, free ice cream this way and there's free popsicles and there's a picture of the popsicle and an arrow and go to room 32 and you go in and you walk down the hall and around the corner and then you come to a door.

Can you sing it like a rap like you yesterday with like two short walking down the street and it had to stop. And anyone that knows the lyrics, you should not know that Dean was singing that yesterday. Okay, go ahead.

I know those lyrics.

I know it's terrible.

So you walk in, you go down and you round the corner and you come to door 32 and it says free popsicles right there. And all you have to do is open the door to get the popsicles.

Right?

If you went, you, you saw the sign, you wanted the popsicles, you walked down the hallway, you got to door 32, you'd have to question your sanity if you didn't. Now upon arriving at door 32 and seeing the sign that confirms this is the place for the free popsicles, I.

Want a popsicle real bad.

Right, Exactly. You wouldn't open up the door and say, hi, I'm here for the free popsicles. It's the same thinking that you offered somebody the free book, they came to the website, there it is, the same exact thing that compelled them to get there. They'd have to question their sanity if they now turned around and left.

Right, right.

It's so. It's ridiculous. Right? So. But I think that people now, I think people talk themselves out of people leaving their name and email by if you got to door 32, having somebody greet them at the door and now start future pacing. What's going to happen when you taste this popsicle? We're going to put you on our auto ship program for these and every month you'll be able to get this free popsicle. You know, there's going to be a special offer and all these things where they don't need to know that now because it's getting in the way. It's filtering the action that we really want. We want to capitalize on and carry the momentum of their desire that compelled them to walk all the way to door 32 and not distract them from that or break that trance that they're in that they want the popsicles. It's just to confirm that you're in the right place. And here's what to do. Leave your name and email. Now that they've done that, now it's about using conversational conversion language to find out if they're a five star prospect.

So here's the thing. So in the simplicity of all of that, which really takes away, I mean, talk about just an elf strategy. Easy, lucrative and fun. That is pretty elf. Now behind that, though, is all of the crap that clutters up people's brains that they actually think they need to do that they don't need to do. Right. You know, it's, it's like, what's that line? There's the only thing worse than singing the wrong note is singing it louder.

Yeah.

You know, there's like all of these ways that people think this is how you. This is how you do it. And they're fed so much misinformation that, that a lot of times when things like this are presented to them, they think it just needs to be way more difficult than that. So great. Marketing is pretty elegant. It's pretty simplistic almost always. Yeah, yeah. So what would. Is there anything you want to add to this, Jason? Because I.

Yes, I do, actually.

I could. Actually, unlike people listening to this, I could see you and, you know, we're obviously all in agreement.

His body language would indicate he has something to say.

So. So this is exciting to me. I'm glad you brought this up, Dean, because what if that popsicle was really just the worst tasting popsicle in the world? Right. What if it was like it tasted worse than the worst thing you've ever eaten in your life? Then what's your motivation to market it? It's probably not very high, is it?

Right.

And so I think a lot of the ability to stop marketing or not want to confront the reality of these effective techniques is a lack of confidence in your ability as a service provider, as a product provider to deliver that. Because God forbid, if one person finds out you got a bad popsicle, that's not a big deal. But if you're really successful at marketing and 10,000 people overnight find out your popsicles suck, you've just accelerated the pace of which you put yourself out of business.

I don't want people to know my popsicles suck till after they pop.

Yeah, right. It's like, oh, but that's only a.

Percentage of them will take me up on my money back guarantee.

But here's the beautiful thing. Most healthy, rational human beings, they honestly believe less about what they can do in terms of delivering products than what they actually can do because they've been taught through society and other things to be modest, to not brag about yourself and, you know, not take chances and risk and be bold and all this crap that is completely the opposite of what you have to do to run a business. And so the reality is, like anybody who's scared to do marketing, the first thing you have to do is not look outside. You have to. To look inside. You have to put yourself in a state of mind that says, is my popsicle truly a thing? It doesn't have to be the best thing in the world, but is it the best thing for that person at that time, for the amount of effort and price involved? And if it is anywhere close to being better than them doing nothing or spending it on a competitor, then you have an obligation to put it in front of them. And the thing is, if it isn't, then, yeah, you shouldn't be doing marketing. Let's do. Let's do a product enhancement first. But I would challenge anybody listening to this. Here's what I know. If you're actually out there right now trying to learn and trying to improve yourself, you're probably ahead of 95% of your competitors in most industries because their approach is, let's do the bare minimum possible and hope for the best result. So I would say that you're probably farther along. Your popsicle is probably better than you think it is. Your audience likes it more than you think they will, but there's still a part of you who's scared to be aggressively putting it out there, because God forbid, what if it isn't as good as you think it is? And so I think a lot of alignment of stronger marketing is going to have to come because you have to be aligned with what you're putting out there as your product. And the beautiful thing about being a business owner, if I'm like a salesperson on somebody else's staff, I'm limited to what they allow me to sell. But as a business owner, if I don't like what I sell today, I can create something tomorrow that's better, and then I could create something the day after that that's even better, and I can validate very quickly if it's good or not. In fact, some of my favorite marketing is, hey, we're trying this new thing. I don't know if it's going to work. You know, I have a good idea it's going to work. But here's the deal. I'll let you get in at far below what I should charge for this thing simply to see as long as you're willing to be my guinea pig, I'm going to hook you up with a deal and then you can tell me if it's worth it at the end. And nine times out of 10, what you're going to find is it's far more worth it than you even anticipated. And now you know psychologically that you should roll it out there and be put it out there. My final thing on this is this is what I've always said to myself to motivate myself. If I allow these customers to go to somebody else and get a popsicle, I have no control over that experience, good, bad or ugly. Right? But if I am the one serving them the popsicle now, I have an outcome on what their experience is going to be like. And I feel like I don't want to put customers in the hands of other people who are going to be more irresponsible than me and not care as much as me when I can do something about it and influence it. And whether that's a mind trick I play on myself or something that gets me in the state to produce, I don't know. But I would say, listen, if you're not doing anybody a favor right now by allowing them to use your competitors products when who the hell knows what experience they're getting, right?

Well, you know, I like how you marketers just try to take the high road here by justifying marketing.

Oh, I don't have to justify it, right? My bank account justifies the marketing whether somebody likes it or not. That is another story.

Let me talk about the road to financial success. A lot of people, there's all kinds of theories I've listened. I mean, look, I've been to more seminars than anyone I know. I've been to more therapy than most people.

Are those two related?

Super related. I am constantly trying to get better, looking for an edge, deal with my own demons, deal with my own forms of self sabotage, learn how to be more effective, blah, blah, blah. I mean, there's a lot of motivators that cause me to want to do better. When I was a dead broke carpet cleaner, I needed to eat. I mean, for me it was just like this. Life sucks. I don't like this. How do I do something that will make my life not suck? As much as I've learned how to make money and I've taught other people how to make money. I love money. There's a lot of things that you can do with Money, that lack of having, it causes all kinds of problems. Money solves a lot of problems that lack of money creates. When you started creating financial success, you became a millionaire, I believe before 30. 30, yeah. It's the same here in a few years. Prior to that, I was completely broke, living off credit cards, never even fathoming that I would ever hit some sort of level of success. And some, there's a lot to be said. Some people will deny it, but they're full of shit. There's a thing called luck. I mean, born in the country I was born in, a lot of situations have just simply been lucky. People say, oh, there's no such thing as luck. It's when opportunity meets preparation. It's like, well, maybe, but if I was born in another country, I mean, who knows if I would have been able to do anything. So there certainly is the luck factor now. There's the mindset, there's the knowledge, there's the education, there's having certain health. I mean, there's a lot of pieces of the puzzle that go into it there. I often think, though, do some people just not have the juice and others do? Is it circumstantial? I mean, what the hell is it? Because here we are sharing from a marketing standpoint, success knowledge, success techniques that anyone in business could apply. Let's take Dean's magic nine word email. There have been people that have sent us letters that said, your magic nine word email method. We listened to the podcast. It saved my business. I was freaking broke. I did it. It worked.

Thank you, guys.

In this case, I have to say Dean, because Dean created that method. It's one of his techniques. Still. There will be hundreds of thousands of people that will listen to this episode, and a tiny fraction of them will actually do it. Even though we are saying there's another episode all about this, there's several. If you go to ilovemarketing.com and type in magic 9 word email or 9 word, all these things will pop up with examples. They can opt into any of Dean's sites, they can opt into my sites, they can see these things in action, and they still won't do it. The reason I'm kind of beating on this horse, even if it's dead or not, is the hope that someone listening to this will be like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I not doing this? There's something that will work. What is it that stops people from your perspective? Because we're all in the same boat. Constantly wanting to help people in areas with something that they say they want, they say they need. We know it'll change their business, but the vast majority of people will not do it.

Well, I spend more time probably on that question than almost any other question related to business activities. Because, and here's what I do, I say, where do I exhibit that behavior? Because I guarantee all of us in this room are the exact same way in the sense of there's some piece of information that I know I need that I'm not utilizing or acting on right now or taking advantage of. And this is a very important question I ask myself because it gives me empathy with my customer at the other end. It's easy to get upset at them and say, dude, I'm doing everything I can to help you. Why aren't you taking advantage of this? I'm working my ass off here. And, you know, I mean, we're motivated for your success because the more successful you are, the more successful we are. It's easy for me to sell If I got 5,000 testimonials, as opposed to five testimonials. So, I mean, it's not just a Mother Teresa halo effect of wanting you to do good for Netflix positive in the world, right? The better you do, the more money I make. Let's be straight with each other here. And so that's a lot of our motivation. So we have to have empathy for people who aren't taking advantage of the resources that we work hard to put out there when it's easy to get upset at them. So I always say, what am I not doing right now with information that I need to better implement or utilize in my life? And then I go through a thought experiment of saying, okay, what would I need to know in order to take advantage of this information? And that's really the fundamental basis of how I look at this challenge here is. And that was what I was saying earlier, is a lot of people have a lack of self confidence in their ability to adequately deliver a solution. And so all the advice in the world isn't going to fix that if we don't address that. And that's one big part of it right there. The other part is that, you know, I say it's not survival of the fit, it's the survival of the familiar. Because anytime you do something different than what you've habituated, there is pain and there is stress and there is scariness to it, and many people would rather die than change of behavior. And I mean, look at all the people who still smoke. Something like 18% of people in the United States still smoke cigarettes. And I used to smoke cigarettes. I mean, I'm so good at it. I quit like six times, right? And it's like, I would rather die at a point in my life 10 years early then quit smoking. And there's no arguing that that thing is killing me. Right? But why? Because of the fear of not having something to replace it or the fear of the agony. And so new marketing is a completely different experience. And the scariness of having to confront that I'm going to be out of my element while I pull this off. That's weird. And, you know, part of it is what happens if I fail, but a bigger part of it is what happens if I succeed. Because if you have more customers, you now have more responsibility. If you have more customers, you now have more of an obligation, you now have more commitment. And that is very scary. And many people would rather be poor and not have those responsibilities than be rich and have those responsibilities. So it's always at the end of the day, alignment of behavior, of what you want and what you're thinking in your head. So I would say, listen, first of all, we're not trying to save the world here. If, like one person does a nine word email after this podcast, I would consider that a winner because that's one more person that we've effectively helped in the rest of them. Hopefully one day they'll catch on too, right? We're not going to get the masses, we never will. But the thing is, if we can get one, can we get two, can we get five, can we get 10? And I've just kind of created a childish approach to my business where it's like, let's just do this thing because it's fun to introduce chaos, it's fun to grab the popcorn and let's screw this thing up. How bad is it gonna be when we totally fuck this thing up and see what happens? And it's almost gleeful to have something. And Joe and I can relate to this. We did an experiment a couple weeks ago where we put the podcast in the top 10. And it scared some people, right? And I understand why, because it's so abnormal to do something ridiculous like that. But, you know, I said to Joe, I said, listen, we can get on a plane and it could crash and we could die, but that's not gonna prevent me from coming to, to the annual event. Worst case scenario, best case scenario, worst case scenario. Almost nothing really happens. Most of the problems we experience are imaginary, they're not actual. And so If I'm trying to help somebody, like, listening right now, I want them to get. I'm going to go in their head. I'm not going to get focused on technique so much, because the technique is easy. Squeeze page. Dean was just insane enough to be the first guy to have the audacity to not.

What if people leave?

Yeah, I know.

Well, what if they leave?

What if they write you a negative email saying, what if they don't read.

My About Me page?

I mean, the hardest thing Dean ever had to do was say, all you other guys doing whatever you're doing are wrong, and I'm gonna do something different than everybody else. And then once he proved it. Now, every one of us rely on that squeeze page today, and we don't remember a time even where that was abnormal. Now, we've habituated the squeeze page. Now, you're an idiot if you don't do it, but Dean was the first idiot to do it. Right. And so it's okay to be the first idiot to do something stupid. And if it doesn't work, nobody remembers it.

Well, it's a Peter Diamandis line, which is, you know, the day before breakthrough. It's just a crazy idea.

Yeah.

And even if you're a crazy bastard like Peter.

Absolutely. Especially if you're a crazy bastard like Peter. Yeah.

Which, speaking of, I got to interview him at the annual event, which. Which, by the way, I'll just see. But during this podcast, I'm just gonna drip, like, promotions because that's gonna be an episode of 10X Talk that I'm doing with Dan Sullivan. And, like, not tomorrow, but the next day, I'm actually interviewing Dan and Peter live at the. It would be the first time we've ever done a live podcast of 10x talk in front of a room, that sort of thing. But again, it goes back to these sort of breakthroughs.

There's something I want to. Dean was telling me this on the way over, and I'd love for him to share it because I think Dean has a really good hack to bypass all this resistance. I mean, our focus is so much on the how right can you share with the people what you were sharing with me, Dean? Because it was so profound that, like, I've gotten my money's worth for Genius, and I haven't even started the conference yet. Just from the ride over with Dean.

Yeah, well, he was telling me the same thing with the Right over from.

You, because he was.

But we'll talk.

We held hands.

Yeah, we were bonding.

See, all I do is do what I do. I just bring people together and introduce them. Yeah, that's my whole shtick.

No, the whole, you know, which is kind of funny because Here we are 39 minutes into this conversation, and this is what we were going to talk about. Like, the whole purpose of us doing this podcast was to have a conversation about the framing for the, for the annual event.

And we just wanted to weed out people that wouldn't listen now that all.

The new people are gone. Yeah, now we can. Now we can talk about it. It's so funny. One of the things, I don't know whether we've talked about it here, Joe on I love marketing, but one of the things that we made a distinction of maybe a couple of years ago now is this idea of focusing on the who, on the what and the who, as opposed to the how and the doctor. And I woke up this morning because I'm on East coast time still. So I woke up really early, but I was just laying in bed. And a distinction came to me that, well, let me set the context for this first so that. Because if I haven't, I want to have the whole complete thought if people, if this is the first time I'm talking about it on I love marketing. That what. The reason that people come to an event like Genius Network in the annual event is to be exposed to new ideas and to make new connections. Ideas come in the form of what you can do. You're presented with a new thought. Well, what you could do is you could take everything else off your homepage and just put a squeeze page so that people leave their name and email. That's a what now. The initial, the next thought that most people have, there's a fork in the road and you can go down this path of, well, how do I do that? Which requires that you now have to invest time in figuring out how to do something. Then you have to invest even more time doing what you just learned how to do, usually poorly, because it's the first time you're doing it. And then you get to done what the highest level entrepreneurs think is not how do I do this? They think, who can do this? Because if you just spend your time thinking about who can set this up and do this for me, you're done. There's zero friction. No more time units required to get you from the what to the done. Right now, the distinction that I had this morning was that how and do are linear activities. They have to be done in real time and they pay for them with time, which is the ultimate constraint. It's like what Dan Sullivan talks about. It's being part of the time and effort economy where you're using your time and effort to create a result. The distinction that I had this morning is that what and who are exponentials because they are fueled with imagination and money, which are in infinite supply.

Interesting.

They're multipliers, imagination and money. When you've attached to a who can. Because once you find a who, you can find many who's. That's how something scales. People think this idea of scaling, when you look at even analog business like Starbucks in its grand scale, when you look at thousands of people, tens of thousands of people are probably employed by Starbucks. Maybe 100,000, I don't even know. But a lot that when you look at it, they think that there's all these people. But there's probably six levels of job description in the Starbucks. From barista to assistant manager to general manager to regional manager to VP to cc. There's probably six layers to get to there. And what that is is really creating the scale ready algorithm that defines what those six layers do. And then it's multiplying that with money, more money to find who's who do that role.

254,000 Number of employees ready to and their revenue is 19.6 billion. Right.

Isn't that great? And it's all made up of individual units that maybe do a million dollars. Each Starbucks location probably on average does a million dollars. You look at that and it's kind of a. It was an eye opening thought for me. Maybe I was just in this haze, but I've never thought about it and made that distinc that the how and do being time and results and what and who being exponential.

Well, in order to have elegant ideas and come up with elegant solutions, you have to be able to think in a certain way or think enough to identify someone who knows how to think better than you. Right. Okay. Because for finding a whole requires for one the ability to realize you're not the smartest person. And there's people out there that know how to do stuff you don't. I mean, who's the smarter person? I mean, what I always think is kind of funny. I remember a conference several years ago, I won't mention names, but there were like world class health experts, some of the quote unquote smartest geniuses. And it was being put on by Dave Kekich, my buddy who wrote Kekich credos and he runs Maximum Life foundation and stuff. And Dave's Very, very smart guy. And so there's all these people on stage that were geniuses. And I just went up, be my typical smart ass self. This was, this was actually over a decade ago. And I said, you know, which one of you is the most intelligent on the panel? Right? And I'm just talking shit, of course, because that's what I do. I did think it's kind of funny, but one of them says, well, you know, there's different forms of intelligence. And they start talking and of course this is like a scientist, sort of brilliant guy, but no sense of humor. Right. And in the midst of all of this, what does one need to have in order to. Because what you said is pretty simplistic in the way you explain it.

My fear is that.

But it's like the big but here is that most people will hear it and they will still stay in their own comfort zone. Kind of like what you had said something earlier about survival of the familiar. Right. So getting someone out of their comfort zone, even Gary Halbert, who I originally learned about direct response marketing from, he's like the Maslow hierarchy of needs. He's like the number one needs of people is to stay within their comfort zone. And so there is an addiction to suffering. I mean, there is a certain way of like, I'm not going to go do that. You also mentioned risk. I mean, I believe there is a lot to be said about the entrepreneur is a person who is just willing to do things that could evolve. Humiliation, losing everything, a rejection. I mean, you know, there's all kinds of consequences of fucking up, but there's all kinds of consequences of success. And so I just want to have you speak to that because to me you're talking about the mindset and the methodology. And I'm really kind of saying, okay, what's the stopper? What stops this? And how can we. To whichever listener here it will get through to. How do we get them on this new path of the current path they're on is just not the one.

Well, I think that's it. That this is, especially this group, right. These are all people that have used their time and their effort and gotten to a point where through personal development and building, getting a business to a million dollars.

You mean genius network.

I'm talking about the people, because that's who we're having this conversation about. This particular conversation. Right. About the people in that room that they've all done something extraordinary. They've all built a business from zero to a million dollars or more. Yeah. And when you look at that. That the thing that is the most limiting thing at that level is almost like what Dan talks about with the skills that got you out of Egypt aren't the skills that'll get you to the promised land. And the skills that got you to a million dollars are personal development and developing your skills and developing your abilities, whether it's a salesperson or your marketing skills or your speaking skills or your product, Product knowledge, your product development. All of those things that are about you.

Yeah. Your ability to work 18 hours a day, seven days a week.

That's exactly right. Your workout, all those things are. Those are the skills that get you to a million dollars. But the multiplier now, and I'm preaching to myself as I'm hearing this, like, this is the big distinction for me, is that the multipliers, once you have this clarity that the only logical choice is to get on that side of what and who to maximize imagination and your, you know, using money to multiply things. Right. Using whose? Using other people's time and effort. And that's exactly what people are in that room for. Not to learn how to do something. Because we're not going to teach them how to do anything at this event. It's not about.

That's what we put on the head. You will not learn anything.

You're not going to learn how to do anything. But what people have got to look for is, what could I do? What's the thing that would be the idea that we're looking for. That's going to be the game changer. And who is the person that I can connect with to either do that or I think that there's this whole. This vast divide of people who are going to totally embrace the exponential world and leave the linear world behind, or that the people are going to embrace the exponential world and enroll the linear people in being the rocket fuel. That's really the truth.

Those are the two.

You got to make that decision. Yeah.

And everybody else is going to.

But I think that where it gets really deep now is Peter Diamandis talks about these interface moments and that I think there are certain things that taking an idea, imagination, and a who, somebody who can apply and figure out an algorithm to create that interface to provide the thing. We rode over here in an Uber. Right? Now, The physical ride from the Omni to your place here can only be done in a linear fashion. Right. It can only be done. There's one person using their time and their effort and their vehicle, taking us on a linear path from where we are to where we want to be. But the imagination that somebody had of. Wouldn't it be cool if I could look at my phone, push a button and summon a car to me, right to my feet in five minutes or less to take me exactly where I want to go and let me get out and not have to pay or do anything?

Right.

That little. Well, that scale ready algorithm is really done on the micro level. I was watching, I've been reading Ray Dalio's book Principles. Yeah, phenomenal. You see his video about economics about them that when you really think about it, all of these things that scale, all these things that are done at Bing's are just aggregation of multiple little micro transactions. The scale of Uber comes from the micro exchange of Jason. When I standing there summoning a Uber, getting in, then billing our credit card for $20 and that's happening millions of times a day, right? That's where the thing and what got to that point is the imagination of somebody to create that scale ready algorithm and enroll a bunch of linear thinking who's in executing that well.

And you know, it's funny is a lot like a lot of people because of how people perceive stuff will, you know, be it Travis who they, you know to try to kick out of the company who create now was he the original guy that came up with it? Who knows? I mean it might have, you know, I mean I've always love the saying there's, you know, at some point a couple guys were sitting around saying let's create Harvard. I mean all of these things, you know, come from, from somewhere. You know, I just have to tell this story because it's just popping up in my head and that's how my brain works. The first time I was exposed to Uber was I was in San Francisco and I was with Matt Mullenwig who's the founder of WordPress and, and Matt likes going to movies and so I went and saw a movie with him and then when the movie was done, he has a car waiting for him. Now of course he's not telling me what he's doing. I don't even think it occurred to him that I, because this only existed in San Francisco at the time and this car picks him up. The next day I go to a movie with him and Tim Ferriss because they're buddies and that's how I ended up meeting Matt through Tim and again. And then I go and have dinner with Matt like the next day because I was getting together with him every day and I said to him, I'm like, what? Like, do you have a driver that just follows you around? I don't get like, isn't that expensive? He goes, oh, no, it's his new app. And he explained his Uber, and it's just being tested here in San Francisco. And I was like, what the hell? And never realizing, wow, that's just a sign of things to come. And I'm sitting here thinking about if someone was to listen to this conversation five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, they'll be like, these people, like, people used to drive cars, you know, because it's going to be like this whole autonomous thing, and it's just gonna, you know, the robotics and AI and everything, and it's almost like the we're talking about that seems so amazing. Like, five, 10 years from now is.

Going to be like, wow, 150 years ago. We talking about summoning a carriage, sir. I could summon a course and carriage to me.

So the thing is, where I think people get caught up is in the technology and the newness and all the wild things, and they forget the fundamentals because, like, what, you're going back to a squeeze page. Ray Dalio's book Principles. You know, it's funny because I met Ray in person at ted, you know, a few months ago, this. This year's ted, and he does transcendental meditation. He's been doing it for years. So that was something I had to talk to them about, other than the fact that him and Tony Robbins are good buddies. And so I actually had a conversation. I was at the. I was literally in the audience when he was doing his TED Talk, which is now being broadcast everywhere as he promotes the book Principles. But he literally talks about, you can apply. These are my principles, but you can apply them in any area of life, not just business. And so when it comes to understanding marketing principles, how would you guys speak to this? And what I want us to do is be the first episode to introduce Jason to our world here, because I want to have more of these. There's so many different paths that we can go down that I think would be really, really valuable. But the principles here, let's use that as a way to kind of wrap up. Let's speak to it and then anything else you haven't completed the thought on the doing the what?

Well, this is developing. This is like hot off the press. I just had that insight this morning, right? That distinction of the how and the doing being linear and the what and the who being exponential. And that when you make that decision to firmly jump into. I'm only going to involve myself in this who in the what and the who situation. That makes a big. That's going to make a big difference. It's kind of overlaying the Robert Kiyosaki's cash flow quadrants on this. And I would think that if we're really being honest about it, most of the entrepreneurs that we know that are in our kind of world straddle the self employed and business owner line. Not truly being a business owner because we're still involved in the operation or on some level it requires our time and effort. We're being compensated very highly in most cases, right. That things that we actually do, we get paid a lot of money for the actual time that we're doing, but we're still nonetheless involved in that and then even going to that next level of investor, right? And that there's very few people who are at that level and there's clues we've been seeing all along. I mean Richard Brandt listen to the I love marketing episode with Richard Branson. And when Jannik asked him how do you manage 300 plus companies? And Richard's first thing thought for a moment and said well, you can't actually do anything. And that was like profound when you look on it now with this kind of thinking, right? That he's saying you can't actually do anything. You can set the vision imagination and you find great people who and you trust them to execute, to do the stuff, right. It's like been there all along and that's really at this investor level. So it's something that's been a big shift and I think that that's going to have profound impact on my own the way I think and the way that I'm moving forward right now. Because I really believe when you get that thought on a deep level, it changes because now I truly get it deeper than I ever have. So back to how does somebody apply this in a marketing situation? I really believe that it all comes down to one person that we think the only person that has the only context for any scale or anything done in numbers, the only person who is measuring that and that it matters to is the business owner, the individuals. Like Ray Dalio says the whole economy is made up of micro transactions, individual transactions, right. And we don't know or care how many people work at Starbucks. What we're focused on is there's my Starbucks and there's the 20 people that work at my Starbucks that you recognize, right? That's your whole Interaction with it. To think in terms of that scalable thinking. To think that whenever you're introducing something new, what most people do is they figure out and spend a disproportionate amount of their time trying to figure out ways to get people to buy their stuff without spending time thinking about how can I, with certainty and efficiency, get the result for an individual? That's really what the bottom line comes down to. It's like Craig Venter talks about the guy who decoded the human genome. One of the things that I learned at Abundance360, the first one that I went to was this idea of an N of one study that in order for. To open the door for everybody to have their DNA decoded, he had to decode one. The first one. That's what opens the gateway.

Right.

That's what opens it up for.

And I've now had it done twice, everybody.

So you've had it done twice.

Twice. Not that I even needed it twice. It was part of one of those. Damn. Did it change? Yeah, I don't even let the hell to do with it. It's so complex. But that's coming. It's coming every day. They're getting more better at using all of that data. So that being said, Jason, people that are listening to this, if you could give them one piece of advice on how to become a far more effective marketer, have more fun with it, just be a better entrepreneur, what sort of advice would you give people? And this is, you know, this is only going to be the beginning of many, many more things to come.

Yeah. So I'm a big believer in catering to the small few of the market that spend a majority of its money. And so Dean last night was telling us when Joe took us shopping at.

Lululemon about the watch company.

About the watch company. Right. And Dean, how many watches do they sell a year?

So I was saying, so these guys fly under radar, right? Like, so Richard Mille, look it up. M I L L E. And they, you know, sell watches, you know, up to.

If you see.

If you watch tennis. Rafael Nadal wears a watch that's $850,000 that this Richard Mille built. All the Formula One drivers. Bubba Watson on the golf tour wears a $750,000 watch that Richard Mille makes. And he started the company at 52 years old.

Can't even get a text on that watch either.

No, exactly. But his whole idea was he's got Bluetooth on it or anything. He wanted to build the very best watch possible. Right. He Wanted to build the the and decide what it's going to cost. What it costs.

Right.

That's his whole thing.

On average, that watch doesn't even tell time.

Yeah.

It just displays status and big neon.

Well, their watches, it shows net worth.

That's all right. Sorry, dude.

Their watches are on average 185,000. And what he found, which was surprising to even him was because he didn't know how big the market for that would be, you know, but he's virtually alone in the $185,000 watch market.

Right.

There's lots of people making $50,000 watches. Lots of choices if you want to spend 50,000. Right. But I was talking about at the Hazleton in Toronto where I stay when I'm in Toronto. There's a Richard Mille store in the storefront in the hotel and there's not a watch in the place under $100,000. Right. They average $185,000. And as a company they sold 3,600 of them last year. $550 million worth of these high end watches. And it's just, it's, it's fascinating.

How many million? 35.

About 550 million.

500?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Half a billion dollar business.

Yes.

Off of 3,600 customers.

Well, that's right.

Yeah. It's pretty good.

Yeah.

That's the kind of business I'm not.

Charging enough for the 100k group.

I know you're not. I honestly know you're not.

Yeah.

I mean that's just a stepping stone to work your way up to being confident to sell a million dollar a year group.

Well, here's the thing, okay, so both of you speak with enthusiasm towards this subject matter. And if you don't have like there's a great Kankach credo where he said it's a part of the credo that says enthusiasm covers many deficiencies and will make people want to work with you or want to associate with you. So if you don't know what the hell you're doing in a particular area, like you're not very good at quote unquote management, but you're really excited about your product or service, that goes a long way. I think people need to immerse massive enthusiasm into what they're selling, which is different than inserting massive bullshit and hype. That's not real. I've always made the distinction. Hype used ethically is massive enthusiasm for what you're selling. Hype used unethically is misleading, lying, bullshitting, exaggerating. Things aren't true. But you guys both bring a lot of excitement and enthusiasm to the table. And when you start making money and all that, that's much easier than if you're struggling, if you're broke, if you're lost, if you don't know what to do, if you're admired.

My enthusiasm has always been the same. When I was making $1 online versus now. I've always had that same amount of enthusiasm.

So you bring it. There's a way to bring it. Any advice on how to cheer yourself up when you have to? When a certain level of mental, maybe physical, emotional stamina is required for the task at hand, you know, when things are not going well, it's even more critical to be able to get yourself into that state or not even get yourself into that state. Live in a way that actually you're there most of the time.

I think when people get into that state, what I find is that it's mostly because they're at a level of magnitude that they're trying to be one or two levels ahead of where they're actually at. They're trying to sell something to hundreds of people when they haven't figured out fully how to get one person the result that they're looking for and to back to build that solid foundation. It's really the thing that if they're trying to get a bunch of people to buy something and then figure out how to make it work, that's what's frustrating. But when they figure out how to make something work with one person, how to make it bulletproof so that. And then test it so they can get the result with 10 people, then 100 people and a thousand people become the effortless scale. Yeah. That you've built it with that intention. I think people try and sell it and then figure it out.

Well, the thing about enthusiasm, unless you're a complete sociopathic, insane individual, we've all experienced enthusiasm at some point in our life. So physiologically we know how to experience it. And so then the reality, though is most people are looking for a reason to experience. And I'll give you a reason, because you're alive. That's the only reason you need. And so I believe happiness is a state that you decide to be in. And if you truly believe you don't need a reason to be happy, and a lot of people think they have to have permission to feel incited and enthusiasm about. About something. Let me give you permission. It's okay to just do it. Be happy for no reason at all. That's your reason. Because you want to, but that's it. And the beautiful thing is it's a conscious decision that. But here's the reality is most people. What would you. You know, I was actually thinking about this last night. Most people don't wake up in the middle of the night. What are you doing, Joe?

I'm looking up the definition of enthusiasm.

Okay.

Just because it's always interesting to me to see how these things are done.

So. Okay. Because I saw like a triple X on that URL or something says enthusiasm. I'm teasing you.

Absorbing or controlling possession of the mind by any interest or pursuit. Kind of like what I'm doing right now with you.

Oh, interesting. And so the beautiful thing about this though is like nobody wakes up in the middle of the night saying, oh my God, that thing went so damn well. I can't sleep because I'm feeling so great. That happens maybe once a millennia for somebody, right? If that happens to you five times in your life, that's pretty good. But most people will spend every fucking night awake stressing out about something. And the problem is it's really easy to feel negative, powerfully, like charged emotions that hurt you, but it's really hard to fill those things by automation that make you enthusiast. Enthusiastic. So I always just said to myself, if I practice enthusiasm, it'll be much more easy to habituate it. And if it's easier to habituate it, it's easier to draw upon it when I need it. And so most of you just need to come up with a list of five times I'm going to be happy tomorrow.

Yeah.

And then you do that. Enough. Here's the secret. I don't care what you sell. People prefer to do business with those that make them feel really good. And so as a benefit, no matter what I sell, if I interact with my customers in a way that, you know, I call it rainy day theory. It's a. If I'm the only ray of light in their otherwise rainy day just because I make them feel better about themselves, they will come up with excuses to give me money because they pay therapists hundreds of dollars an hour to feel bad for a whole hour and talk about all the screwed up shit in their life, right? So they'll pay me $20 for my ebook if the only thing is the email made them smile, right? So that's how I feel. And so I believe enthusiasm is the catalyst and really is the excuse to sell hard. Because hey, even if I screw something up, at least I did it with a Smile on my face. And maybe somebody else enjoyed it, too. I don't know.

Right.

But. But for me, enthusiasm is something I decided I wanted to be and I practiced it, and now it's easy to get into that state. And you can. You could tell Joe, like, hanging out with me, right? Because it's very rare that I'm not in a very good state of mind.

Unlike Dean.

Who's unlike Dean? I mean, this guy.

But it's like Dean is like an instant buzzkill. I mean, as soon as we're going to turn this podcast off, we have to deal with his temper, his sarcasm, his, you know, insensitivity. So many elements about deed that are like, you know, it's like a cheese grater.

But the worst thing is when you see it on the stage, but you don't see it behind the curtain. That's the thing that drives me nuts as you see a lot of these guys that we follow and then we know personally who they get on a stage and they put on a dog and pony show. Right. But it's all calculated. But the reality is that's not going to work very effectively because even if you are successful in business, you're not successful in life. You're not going to feel good if you have to fake this kind of stuff. And so the reality is. But Joe, he knows Dean, he knows me. We're the same behind the curtain as we are on the stage. And really, honestly, you do that, forget everything else, man. You can make $12 an hour and your life is going to be better. And I feel like that's what marketing is, delivering a message to somebody that changes how they behave. And we can do that for money. We could do that for other pursuits as well. But yeah, I mean, the principle obviously, too, is, by the way, if you're comfortable being what or not a what, but a how to. I just want to do this thing and make 80 grand a year, and I just want to be the technician. And that's where you feel you're most comfortable with.

There's.

Go for it.

Right?

Yeah.

But the thing is that that's where the opportunity, I think, lies.

But we're gonna hire all of you technicians to make us billionaires. Right.

Exactly where it is.

And it's. Anybody listening to this is probably not the person who's just happy sweeping the streets and cleaning the toilets. Right? But thank God those are a majority of the people that exist out there, because they're the people. If we can employ them and enroll them in that situation, then that's the benefit that we provide to them as well. It's funny, because we talk about Starbucks, and you could argue that Starbucks is one of the biggest drug dealers in the world. And maybe they are, right. But the reality is, if you don't like that, replace them. Create your own Starbucks and make it a more healthier, viable alternative. And again, marketing is a good way to, instead of complain about how things are, decide that you want to be the change in which you see, or you can just accept the way things are.

Right, right. Well, and the other thing, too, like, let's just wrap up here.

Is that why you don't got anything going on?

No, no, I only got an event.

There's only like 400 people that think 10 grand for it.

Yeah, exactly. You know, I gotta. You know, as soon as I turn the phone on, there's gonna be like 4 million text messages. Hey, Joe, you want to get together tonight? Or one more person asking me if I can introduce him personally to Tony Robbins.

Are they gonna get the private invite to the bubble bath?

They may. Here's the thing, like, so wherever you're at, to go back to, like, what Dean talks about, you know, if you just help one person and then maybe that turns into five, maybe that turns into ten, versus the. This cop out of, like, I've got this product that's going to change the world. I mean, when I. When we hear like that, you know, it's just like, it's an avoidance of change. One person help one person, right? And so one way to literally give yourself a platform to express enthusiasm is right now you have something that could help someone, go help them, right? And you know what? They'll probably pay you money for it. And if you do a good job and deliver it, they'll probably say nice things about you and they'll probably tell someone else about it. And so what is the one domino that's going to turn down the other ones? That's something to take from this episode, from everything that Dean talked about, Jason talked about. How do you apply this to that one domino that's going to knock down other ones? And that's how you're going to build a business. And we'll talk in a future episode that Bill Gates quote, which is, people overestimate what they can do in one year, but underestimate, estimate what they can do in 10 years. And if you really literally are committed to learning how to really get good at this, because people are like, I want to get good at marketing, what should I do? It's like, listen, I love marketing. Okay? There's a million other books which we recommend on I love marketing. There's a ton of people we interview that are guests on I love. But you can study, you can follow that. But like, I love marketing. You know, how many letters have we gotten that said, I've. I've learned more from your podcast than going to college.

Marketing is packed with what and who's. Yeah, it really is.

Yeah.

I mean, you go back all the way this. Everything we talk about is what to do, and all the people that we have on are often people who can do stuff for you. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's just so. It's amazing, right? You just got to get your. Get your mind right.

Exactly right.

And for the great American poet Mason Betha, otherwise known as Mace, says his broken estate that I'm trying to go through that.

That's funny.

God bless him.

Awesome. All right, guys. Well, Jason, it was a pleasure having you as a guest on I love Marketing. There will be many more.

Yeah.

Come on, guys.

I just. This is my first time.

Let's have the listeners decide. How much better was Jason than Dean.

I will pay money, by the way. Vote for me.

Right.

I will lobby.

So please share this with anyone that you think would. Would be well served to hear it. And if you are not currently a subscriber to our podcast, then go and subscribe so that the next episode comes immediately to you. Whatever sort of bizarre device, your ufo, your whatever, however, you listen to podcasts and we will talk to you on the next episode. So have a wonderful day and see ya.

Awesome.

Thanks for listening to this episode of I love Marketing. If you'd like to learn more about the Genius Network annual event, please visit geniusnetworkevents.com that's geniusnetworkevents dot com if you would like access to the full interview, the show notes, and the special resources for this episode, please visit ilovemarketing.com 311 that's ilovemarketing.com 311.

Sam.