Judy Robinett On How To Connect With Powerful, Influential People - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #178

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and.

This is the I love marketing podcast.

Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

And we want to welcome you to another episode of I Love Marketing. And one of the great things about marketing is not just connecting with people through print or video or audio, but also doing it in person. And one of the favorite episodes that we've had that, that has to do with Dean interviewing me was the Magic Rapport formula, which was way back when. What was that episode number? 29, Dean?

I don't know, but it was, it may have been even earlier than that, but it was.

Yeah, it was really great.

And this is, I'm excited because you might shore up one of your weaknesses here today.

Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll see.

So we have, we have a new.

Friend of mine that I've had several conversations. She has a great book called how to be a power connector, the five plus 50 plus rule for turning your business network into profits. Her name is Judy Robinette. Judy, how are you?

Great.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, my good friend who I've known for many years, Garrett Gunderson, introduced us. He's an awesome guy. And I want to give the listeners a little bit of background on Judy. If you don't know who she is, she's the author of the book I just mentioned. It was released by McGraw Hill in 2014. She's the co author of a chapter in Crowdfunding for Dummies. So she really knows that field quite well. She's a business thought leader who's been profiled in the street, the Huffington Post, Forbes, the Washington Post, Bloomberg Business has a sterling example of the new breed of super connectors who use their experience in networks to accelerate growth and enhance profitability. In her more than 30 years of experience as an entrepreneur and corporate leader, Judy has served as the CEO of both public and private companies and the management positions at Fortune 500 companies. And she's been on the advisory board of Illuminate Ventures, which is an early stage venture capital firm based in Menlo Park, California. Pareg Ventures, venture capital firm based in New York, Springboard Enterprises based in Washington, D.C. and women innovate Mobile WIM Accelerators based in New York City. And Judy Robinette currently lives in Salt Lake City, Utah. Probably because it's awesome and beautiful there, right?

Absolutely. That's no Unearthed.

Yeah.

Because like you've mentioned in your book, many VC people, many investors are in New York and Silicon Valley, but you chose to be there probably because you are extraordinarily skilled at having a network which expands globally. And we're going to talk about one of my favorite subjects, which is being a power connector. And I of course refer to it as a genius network. Not just networking, but genius networking. And we do a lot of different approaches and probably very similar approaches to building a value based network. So what did I not say about you that our listeners need to know about you?

You know, probably nothing. Well, probably the best thing is that if you saw the movie Napoleon Dynamite, I graduated from that same high school in Preston Island. Hey.

I like you even more now. That's great.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, let's jump into Judy, because you have, you have a tremendous amount of wisdom and I've read not your entire book, but a very good portion of it, and it's pretty awesome. It's really valuable. You've got endorsements from a lot of friends and just some great people. You've been an entrepreneur and a corporate leader for over 30 years. So someone asked you, what do you actually do? How do you describe what your skill set is and what you do and maybe anything else about yourself?

Well, you know, at my heart, Joe and Dean, what I love to do is really to make things happen. And it took me years to figure out nothing happens without people. People have the money, they have the deals, the opportunities, partnerships. And I finally figured with my head down, working hard at my office, regardless of where I was, that I couldn't know it all and that I could make much better decisions, get to my goals. My objective is much quicker through other people. And I finally decided that I could teach it. And you know, what most people are missing is they don't know how to connect the dots, or more importantly, they don't know how to leverage. So, like you, Joe, I connect.

Yeah. And you know what's interesting is you describe this in your book, that you used to be even terrified at some cases of connecting and were shy and introverted or at least perceived yourself that way. And I kind of feel very much the same way. But you also, I mean, even say in the first chapter you were terrified of people. And it wasn't until you were 40 years old that you even maybe had this new perspective. And you also discovered everything's about connecting. And so I'd like to just have you kind of start with where did it first occur to you that the keys to the Golden Kingdom or whatever are through relationships with other people and that you actually wanted to really develop that skill that maybe didn't come natural to you, or at least you didn't think it did in the beginning.

Yeah. So in my early 30s, I went from the public sector to the private sector and I ended up working for two Fortune 300 companies, Westinghouse at the Idaho National Engineering Lab. And what I noticed was it didn't matter. A lot of people were working hard, they were very, very smart, but they didn't seem to be getting as far ahead in their career as the other people. And the one thing that I noticed is they were much more social, that these people understood the art of networking and the art of strategic networking to help them get to their goals. And I remember Joe being at these meetings, these events that the corporation had, and at night, and I would literally hide in the corners. I mean, I just, I could not bring myself. When I grew up, I didn't know anybody of power, influence, or with money. And even if I did, I wouldn't have dared to ask them for anything. And I would have wondered why they would have wanted to talk to me. Well, one of the first eye openers was Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends, Influence People. And I just started right at the beginning saying hello and smiling at people. And when I finally got out of myself and focused on these other people pretending that they could be my friend, then I found out everybody was the same way. As a matter of fact, they have done research that shows 50% of us self identify as shy. Now we appear probably you're the same as me, Jill, as extroverted, because, you know, we're good with people, but on the inside we're kind of churning our guts going, what if they don't like me? Or what if I don't? What if I can't add value? Or how do I go about talking to a stranger? Right, right.

Well, you know what's interesting also, and let me see if I can articulate this in the right way. A lot of people ask me, how did you learn how to. Now certainly I've read How to Win Friends and Influence People. I even went to a 12 week Dale Carnegie course when I was in my early 20s, just trying to figure out just how to be better at life and business and connecting. I was incredibly shy, even going back to high school and stuff. When I first started becoming interested in women. Asking a woman out was just gut wrenching. It was so incredibly anxiety provoking. Talking to people was extraordinarily difficult. And I always came from a place though, where I really wanted to add value to people. I have a belief that I don't ask anyone to do anything for me if I can't add value.

First.

You've got an endorsement from Adam Grant, who I also know who wrote the book Give and Take. And I like the distinction between givers and takers and matchers. I tend to look at how I operate, and I would certainly put myself in that category of, I mean, I just want to be generous, and you're pretty much the same way. So I think there's a tendency for people that may be like that to find it hard to even entertain that, oh, I should talk to this person about something or I should ask them for that. Do you find that to be true, or is that different for other people?

You know, it is true. And when I realized that everybody on the planet had problems, everybody. They also have solutions that you could add value. And people will say to me, well, how on earth do you add value to a billionaire? And I now have 10 of my Rolodex. You know, probably the greatest gift is just listening and caring. You know, like you, I say be real and care about people. But, you know, you can offer an information report, you can offer an introduction. There's many things that you can do. But when you realize that everybody on the planet has problems and it doesn't matter how big their bankroll is, you know, if they live in Hawaii, they have goals, they have problems, they have issues. And if you just be a little bit scrappy, you can figure out how to add value to them.

Yeah. What do you mean by scrappy?

You know, scrappy is resourceful. So, you know, the critical resources are.

Just a minute.

Let me shut this off. I thought I had everything shut off. So the critical resources are all attached to people. And what I find, the reason people don't connect the dots is they don't get creative. And I call it be scrappy. There's a French word, bricolage, that means you never have everything that you need at the right time. And so I've always tried to be creative and figure, how can I go over it, under it, through it, around it? So being a little scrappy and creative helps. Yeah.

Well, Dean, I've got a bazillion questions, as you can imagine, since I love this whole subject matter, so.

But I'm taking lots of good notes, too. It was interesting when you were saying kind of being scrappy. Sometimes it's probably just a good start to just think that thought and ask yourself that question. How can I add value? Rather than focusing on, well, what do I say? Or how do I Approach somebody even just thinking the thought of being aware and paying attention to see, well, what kind of things are they interested in? What's important to them? Joe talks about that a lot in that magic rapport formula that be interested, focus on what's important to them, because that's what they're really interested in, too.

Absolutely.

You know what's really funny about learning techniques when it comes to. I'm sure you guys have encountered this many times where someone who really isn't their primary focus is not adding value to other people. They really want something, and they kind of have a manipulative personality. And then you teach them a networking technique about how to add value. And then they just don't come across as very authentic. Because, you know, it's like, well, let me act like I'm genuinely, sincerely interested in this person. I want to add value, but just long enough to give illusion that I'm trying to bond with this person so I can ultimately just take what I can get. Do you encounter that with certain people that are trying to learn from you, Judy, that are really. Their world really focuses not around creating value, but really just about making the sale where they're not genuinely interested in you. And so they attempt to use the content and the wisdom that you describe in your book, but it doesn't kind of land in exactly the same way. They just come across as artificial. Do you experience that?

You know, I do a bit. And I try to be very conscientious. I don't let people like that into my network. And usually, I mean, we are really smart in our guts. Our intuition can usually tell us within. I think the research shows 15 seconds if someone is genuine. And, you know, it's that old saying, you know, trick me once, my mistake, trick me twice. You know, just. You really need to listen carefully to what you feel. And I've thought about this. The word communication covers a lot of sin. And in my past, I used to think, you know, maybe I didn't communicate enough, or maybe they could use a little training. And then as you get further, you realize you saw the tip of the iceberg, that they really are a bad actor. Right.

Right. Yeah, go ahead. Deep down, like you said, reflexively, we know that Jerry Spence in his. He's got a great book, how to Argue and Win Every Time. And he talks about how whenever we're encountering people, it's like we have these invisible psychic feelers that are going out and we're evaluating each other. And we can immediately detect what he calls the thin Clank of the counterfeit. We're looking for cues that are authentic, that are real, but we can detect the thin clank of the counterfeit. Those words have stuck with me. It sounds like what you're saying.

Yeah. Maya Angelou told Oprah once I read this in an article, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Ah, right.

And Oprah also says, you know, you learn to feel the feather on your cheek. If you don't get the feather, you get the brick to the head. And if you don't get the brick, the wall falls in and, you know, all of us get those bricks to the head. And I think as you get older, you get a little wiser. And hindsight, it's always perfect. And so the trick is to figure out some of those yellow flags ahead of time that allude to you've got a bad actor, someone that lacks gravitas or someone that lacks character.

Yeah, right.

And the reason I even brought that subject matter up is that I do believe to a large degree that tigers can change their stripes. Not real tigers, but I mean, like human beings, you know, it's the metaphor, but I've seen it happen a lot of times. And when you're talking about everyone has problems, I think one of the greatest relationship building trainings that I went through was literally being a drug addict, having to get treatment, sitting in 12 step groups and looking at people from all walks of life, high status, low status, rich, famous to homeless, all stages of life. And seeing people in a broken state, me being in a broken state and realizing that every human being has problems. And just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean your life is not completely messed up. And so it allowed me one, to relate in a lot of ways. Secondly, I've seen people that, due to circumstances, desperation, where they've had stages of being incredibly generous and caring, to being incredibly manipulative and selfish and ruthless. And I believe finding the way to get to a connected place, connecting is not just about you're going to make money and have a great network. I literally think it goes to a much deeper spiritual level and connecting with the core of who you are and what you represent and what you care about. And I believe people can become genuinely better human beings. And I think that comes through helping others. And you even allude to this in your book. I mean, you tell the story about, oh boy, it's towards the end of the intro where you asked the story about the Cain theory of economics where the person said there's Two ways to make money in the world. The first way is to go off by yourself and live off the land. But the easier way is to make money from commerce and trade where people live in cities. So when you kind of take. Try to do it all alone, it's a much different place. Again, the reason I brought it up is I would like to influence as much as humanly possible to the people listening to this, that connecting is one of not only the best ways to further your life and your business ambitions, but I also think it's one of the greatest ways to just really develop yourself as a human being.

Absolutely. And it's also, it is all about creating. It's creating for the good of humanity, for the world. And much of that is through economics and through business. But you're absolutely right.

Yeah. So let's ask you, because again, I'll reference your book a lot, but one of the things that you teach in there is how to think strategically about developing relationships so that you can leverage your time and your efforts effectively. So how does one think about this subject?

Well, you know, people intuitively know that your network equals your net worth, and everybody does. But what I find is that most people are in the wrong room. They're going to events that are a waste of time. They're not working the network they already have. They're focusing on quantity instead of quality, and they don't have a simple system. And so I do say think about it just like you would a business. You need to focus on your goals, your problems, your dreams. So develop a network plan. Who do you need to know and how can you meet them? There is no lack of critical resources in the world. And this is something that took me a while to figure out. There's 7 billion people on this planet. Credit Swift last night on Bloomberg said they estimate global wealth by 2019 to be $376 trillion. There's countless opportunities. Information is doubling every six months, and now we put it in the cloud. Those are all the things that we need to create. But what I find is people are not strategic. Madeleine Albright, I heard her at the World Economic Forum in New York a couple of years ago, and Charlie Rose was interviewing her, and it was about women and why haven't they achieved greater success and power? And she made an interesting comment, and she said, women make friends, they don't network. And the distinction there is not being strategic. And if you really think about what is the goal, what is the dream, what is the problem, and then what person? Because all of those Resources are attached to human beings. Where are they?

Right, right. Well, that's a very optimistic view of where the world is actually going. Do you, How would you consider yourself when it comes to your perspective on abundance versus scarcity? Because I think even as it relates to sharing your network, which again, you talk about in your book, some people kind of keep it close to them and they feel like it's a limited supply, it's a limited resource. But you also say the way that your network expands is if you actually use it. I, I mean, I cannot tell you how quick I am to say if someone that I know, that I trust, that I know, like and trust needs something. My immediate thing is show value on the spot, make a connection as quick as humanly possible without worrying about, oh, am I going to make sure I kind of protect it. So I get my percentage. But I think a lot of that comes from having a very abundant perspective on the world and where the world is going in spite of all the problems. How would you, how would you frame it?

You know, absolutely. I think we're in a perfect storm. I mean, I'm so thrilled with crowdfunding and how countries have adopted this even before the US And I think the money that's now available, our access to information, part of this is web 2.0, part of it is the democratization of capital, having access to all the information. I think it's just tremendous. And almost every day someone contacts me that are developing a platform to do high end introductions, kind of a step above LinkedIn. So I very much like you believe in abundance and I almost think it's a crime or a sin if you don't help. You can. I mean, as you know, it often takes five minutes to pick up the phone and make an introduction that can radically change somebody's life. And I often think people don't sit and think about the resources that they have available to them and how they might do a one plus one that equals a five. You know, recently I was introduced to a man named Brent Walker and he has these four redhead daughters and they're going to become famous in country and western music. And it's called the Red Haired Express. And I was talking to him about his marketing and he's going to do a crowdfunding platform. And I said, how would you like to talk to Donny Osmond? Well, I set that up in five minutes. His life's changed. You know, that, that is, you know, and you can, you can do that. And the more you do that, the more you Share your connections, the more valuable you are to everybody and you kind of become the go getter.

Love it. Love it. You know, you say five minutes, I've seen Joe Polish springs to action in five seconds. It's so, it is funny to see. I mean when you're in the presence of it, just that iPhone is immediately out, there's immediately the scrolling and a phone call is made, whatever. It's just like this Rolodex in his head that he knows exactly who and what this person needs to be connected to. And it happens instantly. No matter even if it's. Yeah, not even. I mean I've seen it happen in so many different situations. So it's, it's always, it's incredible to witness even. So having a good example of it.

No thanks. Well, thank you, Dean. It's a great line too, Judy. It takes five minutes that where you can make an introduction that can radically change a person's life. And I mean that is true. And that's why it's more than just a phone number or a video or an audio or an email. It's really just linking people together. And through that link can create a collaboration that could reach an opportunity. It could create something that could have someone that has a life threatening disease or illness. There's so many personal and professional ways that connecting becomes so powerful. So what I'd like to do is you talk about power connectors as the most potent links in any network. First off, I'd like you to define what are power connectors and how do they connect to the network.

So you know what I call power connectors is Joe, like you and I, we believe in abundance. We believe in helping others. We know the power of an introduction to a quality person or information trends and ideas. And we typically have a massive Rolodex much bigger than most people. And we do know people of wealth, influence, wisdom, money. I had a gentleman call me last year that was looking to invest a billion dollars. And we know that everyone has roadblocks and what we can do with it. And so what happens is if you look at the research that's been done on relationships, we're kind of the hub. So more people connect to us than anybody else. And so the research shows instead of you're one person away from sex with us, you're usually one person away.

Right, right. No, it's true. It is true. So how much effort did it take you? Because I'm trying to think of. This comes so naturally for me that I'm trying to be devil's advocate to a degree and think through for the people listening to this right now. How difficult was it for you to get to this stage to develop these amazing relationships that you have? You know, for me, I just am constantly connecting with great people all the time. But it's also something that I enjoy. It's a skill that I didn't start out with, but I developed. And so I just want to give some perspectives. Because you teach people how to do this.

Yes. So, you know, much like you, it's a skill that I developed over time, and it became much fun. I would take it as a challenge to see somebody getting out of a car and figure out some way to engage them in a conversation and found out that nobody was mean, nasty. And, you know, now I even interrupt strangers at the table at Barnes and Noble. I recall I was in relaxing one night, and I hear these two gentlemen behind me, and they're talking about their startup. And I love startups. And they know what they're doing. They've pivoted a couple of times on their business model. They've started making money. But then they start talking about investing with angels or VCs. And boy howdy, do they have it wrong. Well, I can't help myself. I turned around and said, excuse me, let me just give you a little bit of help here. I'm an angel investor. I spent 20 minutes with them. They took notes and thanked me profusely. And at the end, the one guy said, well, what are you doing? And I said, well, I'm writing this book. And. And he said, what's it about? And I told him, and he said, you know, I'm one of the vps@overstock.com. would it help to have your book on our website? We get 15 million hits a month now. When I called McGraw Hill, they about fell out of their chair. They're like, how do you do this? And so it was very unnatural for me. But I can tell you, years ago, when I lived in a town of 30,000 people and I worked for one of these Fortune companies, my neighbor was a senator. I ended up being put on the board of directors of our local hospital. I was asked to write a weekly column on business ethics and leadership for the newspaper. And I found out by accident how powerful it was to have senators and a governor and access to the media, politics, money. And that is where I came up with this notion of ecosystems and surrounding yourself strategically so that you could make things happen. And then when I moved to Salt Lake, I did the same thing. And then I took it global.

Wow, that's awesome. You know when you go back to, like, talking to the people that you met in the bookstore and you really made that sort of connection, I really do that sort of stuff a lot. Whenever I hear someone expressing the need or solution, I mean, I have these antennas that just go to that sort of stuff. Now, the flip side of that, which is going to lead up to my next question, which is something that your book is based on, where you create power circles and you have the five plus 50 plus hundred power circles, which I want to have you describe what that is and how someone can start using this before leading to that. How do you actually manage your time? I mean, I know that's part of the process, but I want to talk about the dark side of trying to overly connect with everyone is there's billions of people on the planet and there's people everywhere that have problems. And how do you pick and choose? How do you manage it all?

Well, I'm careful with my time. I focus on quality people, not quantity. These people that have a gazillion people on Facebook or LinkedIn, lots of luck. Those people will never have your back and have your future. And so this is part of my secret sauce with. It's known as Dunford's law of 150, that groups fall apart after it reaches 150. But on a daily level, I just do a few behaviors that will only take a few minutes. I make it a point of talking to strangers. Research shows we only talk to strangers 2 to 3% of the time. And really, that's where the gold is. I mean, I gave a speech in D.C. i'd been at the SEC in the White House. I'm in the bathroom brushing my teeth at Ronald Reagan Airport, and there's a woman standing next to me, also brushing her teeth that has the most elegant raincoat. And I just comment on the raincoat. Strike up a conversation with her, and she said, you know, we should stay in touch. And she handed me her business card. When I got home, I discovered it was Dr. Rita Clark. She's the chair of the National Corporate Directors Association, 25,000 of the world's public directors. Well, since then, she shared information, we've shared contacts. And there's a perfect example of I just make it a point. If I see something, I will often compliment people because so few people do. Or I'll ask a question, and people can opt in or opt out, it doesn't matter. But if you just do a few little things, a Day. In a very simple system, you don't have to have a CRM. You know, I've met people that are tracking 40,000 contacts, and I'll say to them, how many of those people have helped change your line? And, you know, it's minimal. And I have a couple of rules. I used to say I'd only let people in my network that had a good head, a good heart, and a good gut. And I finally boiled it down to, is this person an Oprah or a Martha Stewart? Now, they're both billionaires. They're very good at executing their vision. But if I had trust one with my back on my future, it would be Oprah, because that's kind of where my values are. So you don't want everybody out there. You want people that will help you be there for you. Like you said, know, like, you trust you. And so you're careful and you're strategic. You don't have time to solve the world's problems. And that's part of Adam Grant's book on give and take. You know, you can give, give, give, and you're depleted and you haven't got anywhere.

Right? Right. Yeah.

I have a friend named Martin Howey who, when he had stage four cancer, and he was talking at my office, he came in and just kind of shared some thoughts, and he was talking about quotes. And I've mentioned this several times on the podcast, where the zig ziglar quote of, you can have anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want. He said, well, you know, that's not always true, because you can really work really hard helping other people get what they want, and they won't do anything for you. So you have to be selective about how you go about doing that. And there's a big difference between being selective versus just being generous. I mean, you even take this podcast as an example. Me and Dean know that we have devoted literally several hundred hours to providing information to many people in the world that will never buy anything from us that we know are going to get.

Value out of it.

But they might not be a right fit for the things that we actually sell. And of course, people, we can influence book sales, we can influence building our brand and who we are and that sort of thing, and reinforce our knowledge in the areas of marketing or whatever their skills and capabilities that we bring on this podcast. But in a lot of ways, I get a real kick out of just helping people. It's how you go about it, though. I mean, you can really hurt yourself. By just trying to please everybody and trying to be accessible and available to everyone. So I think it's very smart. So let's talk about your methodology. Let's talk about power circles. Let's Talk about the 5/50/500 power circles so that people kind of understand it. Because I think it's very, very smart, the way that you've set this up and the way you describe it.

Well, thank you. And this again starts from. It's called Dunford's Law, and it shows that groups fall apart at 150. So Roman armies were even grouped together in 150 or less. So relationship science shows that if you drew a circle and put a dot in the middle and that dot, you could put five to 15 more dots around you. And this is your inner circle of your family and your very close friends. The next circle out I determined I call my vital 50. And these are strategic relationships that are going to help you in your life. And then the next one out is 100. And I keep this as people that opt in possible keepers. Charlie Munger once said, out of 100 people he meets, there's five he will keep, couldn't live without. There's 20 he never wants to see again as long as he lives. And the other 70, the other 75 are wait and see. And so you can't really manage. I mean, some people may have gifted memories, but really I can certainly get most things done with 25 to 50 people. And I bet you guys can too. And the problem, so anyway, that's where the 550, 100 came from, is just trying to come up with a system that is simple, that you realize, you know, you don't have to spend two hours a day doing this.

Well, how do you interact with them? And again, I mean, I want to set the stage and really recommend everyone pick up a copy of the book because it's kind of a blueprint on how you do this. I would like to give people an idea of how you interact with these hundred and fifty relationships.

Well, you know, your close friends and family usually see them daily or weekly. And the first thing that I ask people to do is to map this out. I mean, after you get your dots on the piece of paper, write who they are and what is the relationship. And second thing I have people do is fill in the holes. Now, what you usually find is people are really good at the friends, close friends, family. On the vital 50, it's usually people that share the same passions, whether it's at church, not for profits, or in their own business. But it is not wide, robust and deep. And by robust, I mean people will return your phone call, they'll do a favor for you, they'll get back to you the same day. By deep means, influence people of gravitas, of power that can do something for you. And wide is both geographic and across different verticals, if you would, or ecosystems. So that if you need somebody in government or politics or you need somebody legal, that you can go to those. And what most people have is when they're looking at their vital 50, they've got a lot of holes. Most of the people are just like them, which really limits the opportunities they have.

Right, right. So, Dean, what are your thoughts? Because again, I can ask Judy questions for the next week.

Yeah. One of the things I was thinking about when you were talking about this circle here, do you set up different categories, like different sets of 150, or are you talking about just one 150? Because, you know, you think, like, we have different types of relationships, you know.

Yeah. So, you know, I tell people to start with, this is 150. And some people, again, are more adept and they have much broader and deeper. They estimate most people know from 500 to 1,000 people. The program that I recommend that people use is VIP Orbit, and it's by Mike Muhney. He's the founder of Axe Software, I think sold that for 48 million and did this app, it's free for your iPhone and you literally can put people in orbits and you can label it however you want. These are my media people. These are VC funding people. Their picture pops up, you can track emails with them. It's a very simple thing to do. And you asked me how I interact with these people. So the 25 to 50 strategic people, I try to get something out to them every week and certainly not longer than every two weeks. But again, with VIP Orbit, I can just find PitchBook or the latest stats on private equity deals that I think would be valuable for this group of people and hit send. And it goes to them individually so that they know I'm thinking about them. Because I am.

Because I am. That's great.

Yeah. We have a new Genius network app also that we have, and I'll have to check out VIP Orbit because I have obviously not looked at that, which sounds really cool. So thank you for that tip. You know, let's talk about something you mentioned in the book. Find and enter the right ecosystem that will give you access to the people that you need to get to know what do you mean by that? And what is that?

Yeah, Aristotle said, you know, we're social creatures, so we flock, and we flock in business. We flock by churches, by not for profits. And if you think about business, every industry is surrounded by key service players, accounting, legal, media. And then each of these industries typically is specialized by a niche and size and geography. And I'll just use the example of an alternative asset class. You know, people call me weekly looking for funding, and most of these people end up in the wrong room. You know, they're looking for love in all the wrong places and they've not done the research. So in this ecosystem, you know, certainly as friends and family, at 60 billion, crowdfunding will move that to 300 billion. Next up is angels, who funds 90% of the high growth? There's 3,000 of those groups and corporate VCs, 870 of them. You know, number one is Intel. I sit on the board of Illuminate with Ken Elephant. They're number one in their investment and roi. But people don't understand that, you know, this is an ecosystem and there's different rooms. And so often I'll meet people and they literally are in the wrong room. And this is true with funding. VCs will tell you 95% of the people pitching to them are in the wrong room. Well, I look at ecosystems as, you know, you've got your friends and family, your passion, your interest. Third one is your career and profession. If your network is just limited to that, you have really limited your opportunities. One of my favorite quotes is, there's too much for any man to know much anymore. So the next ecosystem is government, politics, finance, then media, and then your industry, and then finally just your community. And you need to be aware of these and do some research so that you get in the right room so you can get to the right person. I mean, people know what just the right connection would do for them, but they usually don't know how to get there.

Yeah, well, so what, you know, how do you reach? Because one of the biggest questions that I get all the time is like, how do you meet someone like Arianna Huffington? How do you become friends with someone like Richard Branson? And they see all of these people and I think they. It's like, well, how do you get there? Well, you do it by creating value. You do it by having a skill set that is interesting to them. You do it by spending time developing relationships, like real relationships. It's not some sort of tactic. I can tell someone. Well, you send them this really Clever postcard. I mean it goes way beyond that sort of stuff. So you actually teach people how to get to unreachable people quickly and effectively. How do you do that?

So you know, you mentioned Arianna. The first time I met her was at a conference that we were both speaking at in California. The second way you do that is you join powerful organizations. I often tell the story about my friend Byron who moved to Salt Lake City, Utah. He is black and he's gay, so he's not the typical white LDS fellow. And he was hired by a bank to manage private wealth. And in less than two years he had outdone everybody. I said to him one day, Byron, how on earth did you move to this town and get so interspersed in these networks of high net worth people? And he just looked at me and smiled and he said, I joined the symphony. That's where the people with the money go. So one of the things I tell people is, you know, join a powerful organization. The second one is volunteer with political organizations. So I volunteered. I was actually asked to be on the governor's finance committee. And you think about where are the people with gravitas, money influencer, whatever it is you need, where are they hanging out? You know, if you're an entrepreneur, you know, the millionaires, the billionaires don't want their money sitting in the bank getting a 2.3% interest and usually negative with taxes. They're looking for deals, they want that 27% ROI annually. And where do they hang out? They hang out with angels. They hang out at pitch events. There's 1,000 incubators in the United States. So you think about who's your who, who do you need to know and how can you get to them? There's always a way to get to them. One of my favorites is I was on a panel with Mark Cuban in Washington D.C. and I thought to myself, wow, wouldn't it be great if I could get Mark to endorse my book? Well, Mark was busy and I'd worked on one of his startups with him. And then I thought, well, you know, I'll just go to Mark Burnett. Well, I don't know Mark Burnett. And I mentioned it to two or three people in my network. Well, it turns out somebody did know someone who was going to have dinner with him. So I said, what is his problem? Well, I found out his problem was that he and his wife had just spent 15 million on the movie Son of God. And they were concerned about marketing, how they were going to get this marketed. And I did some homework, figured out how that might work. I then found out from another friend in Park City that Mark was going to be at Sundance and screening his movie Son of God. And so I called and said, I'd like to meet with Mark. Would you ask, tell him I know how to do A, B and c? Only take 15 minutes. I get an email from Mark Burnett. We're scheduled for dinner at Ruth Chris Steakhouse. I go meet him. I said, mark, you know, think about doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, 20 minutes into it, he said, who are you? And he said, what could I do to help you? And he indeed endorsed my book. And then I said, you know, I'd really love to get my book to Oprah. And he said, she's a close friend. So I didn't know him at all, but I figured out, you know, I thought about, what problem can I help him with? Where is he going in life? And all of these people, like we've talked about, do have problems or they have goals or they're needing to get the right information, connection, ideas. And so here's where. Being scrappy, being creative, thinking of something and then asking, I mean, that's always a tough one for most people, is learning to ask. And I was nervous when I met him, but it was just, you know, great fun. And we still emailed.

Yep, there you go. And, you know, it's the whole Wayne Gretzky thing. You know, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So part of it is always being willing to take those shots. And sometimes you're prepared, you know, physically, psychologically. Other times you're scared. But, you know, you're either moving stiff or you're scared, moving sometimes, or you're scared stiff, or you're moving, you're moving. And that doesn't mean you're always going to feel extraordinarily comfortable. But I also remembered early on, I heard it somewhere. Read it somewhere. Do something every day that scares you. And that's not meaning, take dangerous things like doing extreme sports or putting yourself in physical danger. It's just really constantly challenging your comfort zone. I mean, even when you said, I start talking to people at lines, when you first start this, just even saying hello to someone will be difficult for some people, depending on their shyness level, because a lot of places it's not. But that's how you do it. And the more you just keep doing that, you wake up one day. It's the whole grain of sand analogy that you use in your Book eventually you're moving buckets. You also talk about getting the contact information. Get the contact information for almost anyone in 30 seconds or less. Can you talk about that? I think that'd be really valuable for.

People to hear, you know, So I often will think about, if I go to a conference and I will do some research, if there's two to three people that I think I'd really like to meet that are high level. So I will think of something that is important to. Are you still there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. I was hearing these funny little sounds. I was hearing these funny.

Yeah, that was Dean getting cut off. Because I think Dean's just not as connected as me and you. I'm here. Okay.

You know, an example is Mark Cuban. So I was asked to be on this panel. I was told he might be there. I didn't expect him to be there. Well, I walk into my panel and there's Mark Cuban. And I think, oh my gosh, here's my one chance to be connected to Mark Cuban. And I better figure out how I could, how I could, you know, say something that would make me, you know, stand out a bit. And I listened for the perfect opportunity. And at one point, he sits back like you see him on Shark Tank. And he has his hands up like a church steeple saying how much he listens. And I look down and I go, mark, what about that six million dollar motorcycle movie deal that you instantly went, I'm out. And he looked down at me and he said, well, that was a scam. Well, then I took out my business card and I wrote on the back, mark, I know one of your companies, one of your startup companies, you've invested in Salt Lake. I'm willing to help that company with distribution by introducing them to Jeremy Andrus, CEO of Skullcandy. By the time I got home, that individual had called me on the phone saying he got an email from Mark saying, who on earth is Judy Robinette? So it was kind of creating value on the go, realizing I needed to get his attention. But honestly, if you just say hello and you focus on the other person and you think that there's some chemistry, you'll end up with their contact information very quickly. And, you know, most people now don't even carry business cards. They just say, find me on LinkedIn. And then you make it a point of following up very quickly. You make sure you reference something that you enjoy talking to them about. If you've got some information you can share, share it. Or if you can make an introduction, if These people are keepers.

Yeah. That's great. That is great. Well, you also let me see what I would ask you next. You say that people should start with the three golden questions, go over that. What they are and why do they work so well?

So these questions, it took me years and years to boil it down to three. The first one is, how may I help you? Now, some people, when you say that to them, they're like a deer in headlights. Like, they're so shocked that somebody would even offer to help them. But that one is very helpful. It shows people not only that you're generous, but that you're not a narcissistic or a sociopath. The second one is, what other ideas do you have for me? I mean, after you've shared your story, what other ideas do you have for me? And brainstorm for a minute with them. And the third one is, who else do you know I should talk to? And you will literally see people tilt their head and say, you know, you should probably talk to Joe Smith. And what happens is, oftentimes people aren't as good at connecting the dots. But if you ask, then you see the little Rolodex in their head spinning, or they will come up with ideas. And I think it's so powerful, it allows you to network up and out. So you're literally curating out of their 600 to 1,000 people, just the right people for your situation. And in context. In context with the right information.

You know, there's a subtle distinction in what you said because your question is, who else do you think I should be talking to? Which is at Triggers, somebody's Rolodex. If you ask them who else, you're asking them to search for a specific person. And a lot of times people will ask, do you know anybody else I should talk to? Which is a completely different question. You know, it's like, it's. Yeah, it's really interesting how when you specifically ask it, who else? That the presupposition is that there is somebody. So there are minds automatically go searching like that.

Yeah.

Pretty. It's pretty interesting, the psychology.

Yeah. And research shows that our influence is limited to a friend of a friend of a friend. Well, out there at that third level is where those weak links are. So you know all your friends and family and your industry, career, passion, those people in your network, they all know the same people. They all have the same opportunities. It's when you get out there to the third level. Now, what's interesting is, and I would challenge you each to do this, if you Write down your 25 people and you go out and approach them and say, you know, this is what we're doing for the Genius network. We got this new app out, this new piece of software. What do you think? Who else do you think I should talk to about this? You'll be absolutely amazed. Now, most people don't mind their network. So Mike Muni, founder of Axe Software, was introduced to me by my agent, Wendy Keller, who thought maybe there was something we could do together. So Mike flew up here from Texas, and we're talking, and I go, mike, I've never heard of the ipr, but what are you doing for marketing? And how did you rank number one? And he tells me a little bit, and then he says, you know, Judy, what I would give if I could just get in Success magazine. I said, mike, when you go home, I want you to call Wendy, who you've known for years and years and years. One of her good friends is Darren Hardy, founder and owner of Success magazine. His mouth dropped. He almost fell off his chair. Now, he had access to this person.

For years and didn't know it.

He didn't know who his network already had in their networks. Who is that? Friend of a friend of a friend. And I'm telling you, there is gold in your network, and everybody's already got one. So I often ask people, you know, just get out, post it notes, do something so that you can visually look at. Who are those 25 to 50 people? Go talk to them, engage them in a conversation, tell them what you're up to, ask them for ideas. Who else should you talk to? It will change your life.

Yep, totally. It's so funny speaking to Darren Hardy. I mean, I'm helping him with his new book right now, and I had dinner with him, like, about a week and a half ago. It's a small world if you are at least in the connection world. Although it's a very big world and there's a lot of people out there. And you'd be surprised how there's this web that connects so many things. Once you get clear on who you want to be aligned with and how you go about doing it, you have this really clever thing of seeding any conversation with information about you and your interests so that people will remember you without feeling that they've been sold. Can you talk about that?

You know, I always try to be a little bit humble and vulnerable when I meet people. It's not beyond me to say, you know, I live in Utah. I'm a cross Between Utah Mormon, polygamous, West Virginia Southern Baptist who recently found out my last name, name's Klein, so I'm probably Jewish. And, you know, I had, you know, lots of luck finding somebody else who has that story. And that one happens to be very true. And so I find if you have a little bit of vulnerability, you're, you're humble and you really are real, you tell people who you are that then that resonates with them and they go, you know, I want this person to keep her from my network. I want this person in my network. And you find something that's relevant. I mean, if it's somebody that is in the, you know, funding world, I mean, I recently, I emailed Plate Mask when I found out he was going to do an IPO and suggested that it would be wise for him to talk to Jeremy Andrus, who took, you know, skull candy through their ipo. And that happened. So just, you know, think of things that could be relevant and be helpful. And this is again, the thing about being scrappy. And will these people remember you? Of course, you went out of your way to help them in that five minute phone call.

There you go.

And, you know, it's funny enough you know this, Judy, but I'm the second Infusion infusionsoft customer.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. So Clay Clade is in my genius network group, my 25k group, and I'm an investor in the company.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah, they're doing better. Yeah. We even have an interview with them on video, with the founders of infusionsoft on I love marketing, which is funny. Let me ask you about what you think about your perspective on social media for making connections and how do you use it and what are the right ways to make it effective? And how do you see some people just completely wasting their time falling in love with, with how many relationships they have, but they don't really lead them to where they want to go.

Yeah. So this is the funny story. So two years ago, my adopted son Preston said to me, you have got to start tweeting. And I looked at him and I said, 144 characters. What do I say? I'm sitting on the toilet. I mean, literally, that's what I said to him. And I started tweeting and I found out what I loved was wisdom and sharing knowledge. And. And then pretty soon I got it. I had been on LinkedIn. Now, the research shows that the most important thing for business professionals is LinkedIn. And the research was, I think 41% saw significant gains results from their LinkedIn. But I'll tell you, on Twitter, I started following a woman who was really an expert at social media marketing. Jennifer Abernathy, who is the author of three books, really liked her. And I called her one day on the phone and I said, jennifer, I'm going to be meeting with Gina Davis in Park City. She needs some help with social media. Would you like to fly out and help? Well, of course. Who would not want to meet Geena Davis? By the way, she's 6 foot 2 and she wears 4 inch hills. And so I met this woman and I've hired her now to do social media for me. And I met her on Twitter now LinkedIn. Just this week I had a gentleman who's an official at the United nations in New York, a pretty high official, who'd read my book and reached out and said, could we break bread on your next trip to New York? So I think it's pretty profound. I don't believe in wasting tons and tons of time because you will, you know, if you follow Neil Patel, quick sprout. You find that many of the older, you know, just get out there and share. Content doesn't work. You've got to build sales funnels. There's different things that you have to do. But I certainly do believe that it's important because it's a way that you can cast a very broad net and you'd find people you'd never be able to find. And you can tell from the tweets and their profile, this is probably a good person. I'm going to reach out to them.

Right, right. You know, this will be kind of an aside and off the subject of connecting and networking maybe, but since you have such an expertise in crowdfunding, I would love to. We don't have a tremendous amount of time, but I'd love to have you just share some wisdom in your thoughts of what crowdfunding is to you. How would you define it and why are you so excited about it? Because that's certainly where you spend a lot of your world as it relates to you being an advisor and an investor and a connector.

Yeah. So crowdfunding is the democratization of capital. I mean, I'm absolutely thrilled. For years and years and years, women weren't allowed inside the doors of VCs. Neither were minorities. This really levels the playing field. I think this year we'll have 2 billion in donations, campaign donations. Jeff Hayes, who's a dear friend, has run six successful campaigns for his documentaries. And I'll tell You, there's a young man in Provo, he had invented a case for an iPad that turned to into like a mini computer. He couldn't get any of the local angel groups to invest in him, and he did a campaign, raised a quarter of a million, and he hit 3 million that year in sales. Then the angels, of course, wanted to invest. And, you know, recently I was in Bogota, Columbia, helping them with their entrepreneurial ecosystem. And I'm seeing the same thing worldwide. I mean, we're in a perfect storm between Web 2.0 and globalization of not only information, but having access to capital. And that's why I'm so bullish or optimistic, because it's entrepreneurs. It's entrepreneurs that drive jobs, that drive growth. Now, the important thing and the book that I would recommend is, I think it's Rocket Hub. See, it's the handbook. It's, you know, I'll have to get it to you, but it's a simple little book and it has, you know, several hundred experiences, good, bad and ugly, of doing crowd campaigns. But they found out that, you know, the, the average time is 60 to 65 days, that the most compelling thing to do, of course, is a short video. But, you know, the gating factor is your network, because if you don't get social proof with about 20% of your friends and family donating, it's only then that strangers come. And the trick is, they're not going to Rocket Hub and Indie A Go Go's platforms. They're going to places like Twitter. So in this book, and I think it's the Rocket Hub handbook, there's a gentleman in there, and he's participated in 67 campaigns. And where does he find them? He finds them on Twitter.

That's great. That's great. Yeah. You know, it is a whole new world in what you can do. And that's why obviously, staying plugged in and knowing, I mean, you know, the ability to pick up a phone call, the way I look at it is, you know, if I don't know the answer to something, and in most areas of life, I don't know the answers. But I do have a genius network. And through that network that I develop and I nurture and I take care of it the same way that you would take care of a garden that's flourishing is I water it, I nourish it, and I tend to it. You want to do the same thing with your network because you can get all of the answers and the solutions through that, through those individuals, through those people. And that's why I think this is such a critical subject. Now, I, again, we can go for hours and hours on this, but we're getting to the time. So what I'd like to do, Judy, is ask you what should me and Dean have asked you about the importance of power connecting or anything related to this subject that we didn't that our listeners really need to hear?

You know, I think we've probably covered about everything. You know, the one thing besides joining a powerful group I would tell you is probably not attend most of the networking groups that you belong to and make sure there is. In any of these groups, there needs to be people that are smarter than you or they have critical resources they could offer you before you go that you make sure that you're not in the wrong room. And also if you do a lot of, if you do just some research. So not only, you know, genius network, there's many other groups out there that can be very valuable. I often tell entrepreneurs they need to join the association of Corporate Growth, which has mid tier deals, PE deals, if they're looking for strategic partnerships or customer acquisition to just think about other groups because your trajectory can greatly increase there. And just to your point, oftentimes people will call me and if they have a question I can't answer, I'll send an email out to 10 people in my network. I will always get an answer. It's never from the person that I.

Thought, yeah, yeah, there you go.

I mean, but just putting it out there is the way that, you know, it's like a boomerang, though. I mean, a lot of this has to do with karma too. I have learned that, you know, be nice to the people you meet on the way up, they're the same people you meet on the way down. And if you're nice to everybody, everyone, the chances of you going down are less likely because you have developed the support structure and you build it one brick at a time. And you get to the point where as you do that, sometimes it becomes incredibly leverageable. I can literally every day I talk to people that a lot of people that are close to me are like, how do you meet these people? And it's like, well, it's an operating system and if you do this, this and this, that's kind of how you do it. So you've got a really great book and I highly encourage everyone to pick up a copy of it. What's the best way for people to learn more about you and connect with you?

Judy, you know, I'm on LinkedIn Twitter is just udyrobinet. I've got a website and you can email me judyudyrobinette.com and there's no E on the end of Robinette. And I'm happy to answer questions if people have any.

Awesome, awesome. And Dean, before we go to you for any famous last words or any final questions, I just want to remind everyone if you want to hear my methodology, because I think it will absolutely complement what we've talked about here with Judy is type in Magic a Rapport into the search section of ilovemarketing.com and you can hear my magic Rapport formula. And I go through nine steps of what I do, how I connect with people, how I meet the people that I meet, how I interact with them, and how I create value. And you'll see a lot of alignment. And if you read Judy's book, How to Be a Power Connector, it will just reinforce this incredibly valuable skill. So anything from you, Dean?

Yeah, I think the common elements here, I mean, everything is completely resonant with what Judy said today. It's going to really amplify it. But what struck out for me is how treating your network, treating your networking as your most valuable asset. I mean, I wrote down early on, Judy, when you said nothing happens without people and you really think about that, that everything. So often we get so insulated in our own world just thinking about inwardly thinking, working on their software, working on their product or their business without really thinking about as a really proactive approach to treat networking and treat their network as an asset. And I think that the strategies in your book are really going to give people a roadmap. So I appreciate you taking the time to be with us. It's been wonderful.

Thank you. Absolutely delightful.

Awesome. So again, thank you so much, Judy and her Judy Robinette R O B I N E T T While it's fresh on your mind, pick up a copy of her book, read it, and please give us your comments on the section@ilovemarketing.com if you're not currently subscribing to the I Love Marketing podcast, then get your butt to itunes and subscribe to it or any other places where you can subscribe to our podcast. And we'd love to hear your comments and how you're actually utilizing the strategies we talked about today. And of course, if you know someone that could benefit from becoming a better connector, then share this episode with them. And thank you so again. Thank you, Judy.

Thank you.