Marketing Mashup: A Plethora Of Marketing Ideas (with Joe Polish, Dean Jackson and Jason Fladlien) - I Love Marketing Episode #327

Like a lot of people that are listening to us right now and listen to our podcast on a regular basis, they have, in many cases, all the ingredients that they would ever need in order to build whatever business, whatever recipe they want. It's just how they're presenting it, the timing, the packaging of it, the place, you know, the environment.

I'm Dean Jackson, he's Joe Polish, and this is the I Love Marketing podcast.

Join Joe Polish, Dean Jackson, Jason Fladlin for marketing mashup with more than an hour of actionable marketing ideas. Topics covered include the three things you need in order to sell anything and make more money, how to create a compelling offer that gets people to more easily say yes, the psychology behind premium pricing, and much, much more. If you'd like access to the complete presentation, the show notes, the links, and the special resources for this episode, please visit ilovemarketing.com327 that's ilovemarketing.com327.

Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe.

Polish with a very special guest by the name of. Introduce yourself.

Jason Fladlin.

Jason here.

Yeah, yeah, celebrity name here. Jason Fladlin.

What?

See, if you're doing a podcast, if you're doing a podcast and it's not on video and people like literally can't see, you could probably just get a recording of some famous person's name. You could insert things, sort of like how they, you know, have the lips moving on some videos.

Totally. We could do a soundboard one. We could take, like Jason said, enough words. We've got, you know, two days of him at the genius webinar event, recordings that he talked non stop. We could probably make a soundboard episode and make it say whatever we want.

That's true. And with the AI that's out there right now, literally getting to the point where you don't even, I mean, you can just overlay. It's just crazy. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, speaking of, we have Mr. Ray Kurzweil, you know, one of written many books, Singularity is Near, how to Create a Mind. His newest book called Danielle Chronicles of a Superheroine. It's a novel with two companion novels about the latest and most insanely crazy technologies in a good way that are going to help inspire young kids to become the most productive, advanced, amazing solving.

World problems, the most advanced citizens of Cloudlandia.

Sorta sort of like that. So I'm helping Ray with his new book that's coming out. It'll be released in August and he's going to be actually I'm going to be interviewing him live at the Genius Network annual event. He's currently the director of engineering for Google, and his team has built the most advanced AI system, which is going to absolutely transform the field of education and learning and how people find solutions and stuff. So we can touch a little bit on that. But I wanted to anyone that's coming to this year's Genius Network annual event, which is November 2nd, 3rd and 4th in Phoenix, Arizona, it's going to be incredible. Both of you guys are, of course, going to be there. And one of the things that we're doing, Jason Fladlin, the webinar master of the universe, actually wrote a sales letter that he just did it for me because he's awesome, talking about this year's annual event. So what I'd like to do with this podcast is start it with this premise of Gary Halbert, who we've all studied and learned from him. Gary was a dear friend of mine before he passed away over 12 years ago.

Now.

He used to say there's three things you need in order to sell something. You need a product or service. You need a sales pitch or marketing message as the second thing. And the third is you need a delivery system. And technology's change over the years, different ways. There's always people that have something they need to sell. What's their product, their service, their experience? How do we tell people about it? What do we say about it? And then how do we deliver that message to people? Before the Internet existed, you know, me, like all of us, I mean, probably you and me, Dean, were in this game a little bit earlier than Jason, but Jason's been at it for a long time. Also, we used direct mail, yellow pages, tv, radio, space ads, postcards. I mean, you know, phone selling, I mean, a variety of different ways to deliver a message. Now there's all these electronic ways. And so Jason, who's a master of webinars, is a delivery system. That's a delivery system. And I just had a film called Black Star that I did with Akira Chan, who was the producer and director, and then John Butcher, who owns a lifebook and is the chairman of Precious Moments, the figurine company. We did our first documentary for Artists for Addicts, which is about my addiction platform. And I was just, over the weekend, Jason was there. It won the, you know, the audience Choice award for, you know, short documentary, which was awesome. At the Sedona Film Festival, at the world premiere. And so that film is just another delivery system for something that's important. To me, which is changing the global conversation about how people view and treat addicts with compassion instead of judgment and finding the best forms of treatment that have efficacy. And so we're using films and we're using videos in order to educate people about what I think is, you know, one of the greatest human problems that causes death and suffering and wars and, you know, just horrible things, which is addiction, which is a response to trauma. And so that's, you know, one of the ways I'm using marketing. So I went into that whole rant because wherever you're at in your business and your life, if you have a business, you need to get more customers. If you have a cause you really want to support, there's many different marketing methods that one can use. And so what I'd like to do is have us all kind of talk about those things and give everyone sort of an update on some of the cool things that are going on. And I just wanted to. I wanted to say that. And I figured, you know, me and Jason have been talking all this week because Jason just had a brand new book that at the time that we're recording it, it's literally just got released and it's all about webinars. So whoever, whichever one of you guys wants to go first, let's kind of jump into that whole three things you need in order to sell something and apply that framework so that our listeners can kind of get it. And we'll talk about different examples in our own businesses and lives of how we use that.

Yeah, nobody reads books anymore.

Is that true, Jason? Why would you do that?

Well, first of all, nobody sits on a webinar for two hours. That's a.

That's where all the opportunity is. Wherever it says, nobody does that. That's where the opportunity is.

So it's so funny we bring this up, guys, because this isn't really planned. Like, I just got pulled into this today and by happenstance Yesterday I'm on YouTube just screwing around. And there's this thing in my feed about Gary Halbert speaking at a Ted Nicklaus, like, information seminar. And I watched it. It's an hour and 10 minutes long, and it was fabulous. And it was all about direct mail and none of it was applicable to anything I do in business today. But I was just mesmerized by it. And Gary says, and I love this dean when he says this, he says, you know, a one page letter, it's scientifically proven that a two page letter will output one page letter and a four page letter will output a two page letter and an eight page letter, a four and a 16 and eight and a 32, a 16. And he goes, I've only tested it to 64, but I don't know where the end is at. As long as you're putting in valuable copy there, then guess what? The more you tell, the more you sell. And that's so true. Now, to somebody who's not interested in the message, right, there's, there's no reason to write, even read two paragraphs. But you know, then he gives the famous example of if you could only pick your mate by letter, if you had a hundred women who are going to write you a letter trying to convince you that they were the one, you wouldn't like it if it was just, hi, my name is Bunny. I like Long walk from the Beach. I hope you pick me.

Right?

Yeah, yeah.

I like how you just said Bunny.

No, he said it was always Bunny with Halbert. Right, yeah, right.

No, I get it, you know, but that, that goes to show that I look at that, that I totally buy into that, that the more you tell, the more you sell and. But the ways that you package it, I really look at the book as a way of getting more of those words in there, you know, saying more and in a context that is shuttled through to the part of your brain that processes information more readily than the context of a sales letter, which is filtered through Broca. Right? The part of our brain that filters out advertising, messages and important stuff, you know, and so I look at it that what the thing that I've really been experimenting successfully with is stripping away what I'm calling the compelling from the convincing. And that I look at it as this kind of three step process of compelling, convincing and collaborating so that you're there, the beginning of it is just to get somebody into the conversation about it. And I've never seen anything work as well as a book to get somebody to raise their hand immediately, you know, and set the context. Because with a title of a book we can trigger this response mechanism in somebody's brain that they can gather valuable information that we maybe are not going to use right now. Compared to the idea of a webinar where. Or a workshop, you know, it goes both ways, right? Something that I'm forced to and have to consume right now or at a, you know, at a future date. There's a, there's an obstacle there. And so I've had that different. I've taken that thinking and transferred it in a lot of different ways. One of which for. For Luba, for my girlfriend, she's got a studio here or in Winter Haven called Amazing Brows and Lashes and does. We're using it as like a prototype for a Brow and Lash studio. That could be like a franchise prototype. But we've been doing Facebook ads offering people a hundred dollar gift card as opposed to running ads that offer 20% off. And the lesson in this is that 20% off, the only way to take advantage of an offer like 20% off is if you're ready to get your eyebrows done right now, that you and can be used as an incentive to induce somebody to come in and do it right now. But what you're missing out on is all of the people who want to get their eyebrows done are not ready right now, but would definitely respond and gather something that's going to be valuable to them in the future. So if we're talking about a $500 procedure, that 20% off or $100 gift card is the same net result. Right. But we get so much more response to people responding to download the hundred dollar gift card now. And we get the people who are ready and want to come in and do it now. But we also end up with the A pool. And we've generated 1500 now women out of an audience of, you know, an audience size of 30,000 only right in a radius around Winter Haven of all the women 35 to 55 who have asked for this gift card. And we get to continually send them engaging emails. So like the first thing is to try and get them to come in and get their eyebrows done now. But if they're not ready 30 days from now, we send them a message and say, hey, Jason, are you still interested in microblading for your eyebrows? And that gets a whole other wave of people saying, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would love to schedule that. And then 60 days later, at the beginning of the month, we send a message that says, hey, Jason, would you like to schedule your eyebrows this month? And then six months later, we sent out a message that said the subject was eyebrow model. And the basic thing was, hey, Jason, I'm shooting a training program for microblading and I need a few eyebrow models who I can film as a record as I'm doing this process. If you've got some time over the next couple of weeks and you'd be willing to let me film the process, I can do it for you for $199. And a whole other wave of people, 16 people who downloaded a gift card six months ago all came to the surface. So this focus on the long term conversion value of people that we would never have gotten if the offer was a 20% off expires, you know, April 30th or whatever the thing was. And I look at that directly transferable to webinars or live events, you know.

See, that's exactly, that's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, but that's a pretty good summary of a really deep, you know, there's a lot of experimenting that's been going on to get to that.

No, you're absolutely right. That's, that's actually brilliant in the way that you laid it out. So if you were to take that as a process so that people listening, I mean, I always try to make it as easy and digestible for people to kind of get and understand, you know, how to apply things so they don't just hear it, but they're like, okay, I can see how, how this applies. If you were to, I don't know, either name that process or describe it in a way to where the timing, the way you're presenting the offer, the conditional versus non conditional, you know, offer what, how, how would you go deeper with it?

So the first thing that I look at is, you know, I talk about this, you know, compelling, convincing, collaborating, right? That we're looking at each of those three levels that if you take that same thing, it's almost like, know you like you, trust you. You know that people often read that combination know you, like you, trust you as one thing instead of looking at it as the components individually, right? Know you full stop. Like you, full stop, trust you full stop. And having a strategy to reach each of those benchmarks individually, right. Instead of trying to jam it all in to one thing, to go from not knowing you, and more importantly, to go from you not knowing them to you knowing them is a big win, right. It's far more valuable that we're running if we just use the eyebrows as an example because it's a great metaphor for this that you're looking at. We've got a pool of people within 10 miles of the studio. There's a fixed pool of 35 to 55 year old women that we're dealing with there, right. And they're anonymous to us. But when we offer something that they can immediately respond to even if they're not able or don't have the intention of getting it done, right now that the gift card is a placeholder for their intention to do something later. And so for them to Ask for it indicates their interest in it, right? That they're interested. They're compelled to download this gift card because they know at some point it's on their radar that they're saving up to have their eyebrows done. And so we look at now a win for us to know who we know. 1500 women now who live within 10 miles who have indicated their interest in eyebrows because they downloaded this hundred dollar gift card that they can put in their hope chest. You know that they're looking at that thing. And I looked at books, the same thing that somebody. If you have the right title of a book and you've got something that is going to turn an invisible prospect, which all your prospects on Facebook, newspapers, postcards, all of that stuff, you don't know who you're talking to until they respond, right? You've carved out a demographic or geographic or psychographic audience that you think makes up who you're trying to attract. But there's really value in you knowing who those specific people are. So that's why having something like a book is the very best thing to do that. Now, we've used this in so many ways. We've had people who did. I had a guy on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast who does stem cell treatments and they were running full page ads in the newspaper to promote a workshop that they were doing teaching about, teach people about stem cell treatments, right, for knee pain or back paid. And they would run this full page ad, they would get 20 or 30 people to come to a workshop. Some number of those would come in for a treatment, for a consultation, and some number of those would become clients. So they would spend five or six thousand dollars on the ad and they would generate $30,000 in, in fees, right? Treatments. And then they would do it again. And when we switched to Adam, do a book about it and offer in the newspaper ad the book instead of the webinar. And he emailed me saying now Instead of having 20 or 30 people at their workshops, they have 80 plus people at their workshops. Plus they've built a list of 1200 people who are coming to future workshops or coming bypassing the workshop and coming right into the office for consultations. And so the dynamic of it is just so much more long term valuable, you know, in addition to the short term because it's not slowing down anything on the front end. People always mistake that I, because I talk so much about the long game that they mistake that I'm sacrificing the short game for the value of the Long game, but I want all of, all of it. I want to maximize the short game, which I think you do this process and get the long value of it too, you know.

Well, you know, I really like the way that you describe that. And there's, you know what's interesting, Dean and Jason, I don't know if you notice this also or if it's literally my perception, but when I was a carpet cleaner and I learned marketing because I needed to build my carpet cleaning business. So most people, unless they're brand new to this podcast, have kind of heard the whole dead broke carpet cleaner, struggling real estate me, Dean Jackson, struggling real estate agent, trying to figure out how to make their business work. And then we learned direct response marketing and learned about offers and writing copy and differentiation and guarantees and compelling offers and multi sequence selling. And not just trying to sell what we're selling, but to actually build a list of prospects and continue to communicate with them. You know, back then, Dean, it seemed, although more logistically complicated because now you can send out an email or you can do a social media post or you can do a lot of things, even just laying out ads and in spell check and all of these things. I mean we were doing this stuff when we were using word processors. I mean even before desktop computers were really like a thing, which makes us sound like ancient. But it really wasn't that long ago in the scheme of things. And it just seemed like there was more of an ability to just think through psychologically the stair stepping of prospects and the timing and with the fast pacedness and the over communication of everything today. What I notice is that distractibility and wanting things to be like instant gratification prevents a lot of younger people from taking the time. And I don't just say younger people, I mean everyone. I mean this is not a young or old sort of thing. It just happens to be more of a cultural thing where there's so much over communication today that I see very few people that literally have the patience. Meaning when I was teaching people the same stuff psychologically 20 years ago, it seemed like there was more an adoption of it than there is today. And do you guys notice that or experience that or is that just me?

I do, Joe and I have a theory that I talk about at depth on it as well. It's interesting because the dynamics of any marketplace change over time. So I was just writing, I was writing for the next book I'm working on today. This whole concept of they call it the availability heuristic. And so we typically value information that is recent, or we value our thoughts that are recent so much biasedly so that we don't draw upon as much of our past wins knowledge and wisdom. We kind of touch on that. But what's running through my brain right now. And so as a marketer, if we're not consistently in front of them, helping influence the thoughts that they're thinking and being part of that mind share, it comes very hard for anybody to do anything. And so I was explaining this as I was writing this book today, this chapter in this book, talking about how with, with consulting clients, like high ticket ones, if you want to get them, you have to put them on a nurture cycle and you have to put it in the mail. So you can send one. You could send the same article. Okay, follow me here. Right. So I could write this wonderful blog post. So this amazing email, I mean really high quality content and the impact, even though it's the exact same message, when you can't touch it, when you can't smell it, where it's not task at all, where it's not in private, it's akin to having a conversation on like a nightclub dance floor with somebody versus having a conversation quietly in your home.

Right?

Yeah. And so the idea here becomes what? The dynamic changes when nobody's in the mailbox and everybody's on Facebook. We should go to the mailbox. If everybody decided to follow our advice, which they won't, but let's pretend that they will, and everybody starts to go to the mailbox, then what do we do? We go back to Facebook. So this whole concept of people typically want the thing that they can learn and do one time and then never have to adapt again. And they treat all this stuff as if it's static. And so like, oh, I'm going to, going to clown on you a little bit here, Joe. Because Joe just said he came from that world of direct response where they practically had to break out the exacto knife and cut it in. And that's how they laid it out. Right?

I've done that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly right. And so like, I've never done that, you know, because I've never. My history doesn't go that far back. Right. But I proposed to Joe earlier this year that we should go to past Genius network members in past annual event attendees, and instead of trying to market to them through just email or, you know, through online ads, I said, let's put a letter in the mail. And I wrote the letter. But. But what was funny about this, Dean? You'll get A kick out of this is nobody knew what to do to get that letter of the mail. It was like there was no problem. We didn't know what print shop to use. We didn't know how we were going to lay it out. Because even if it's something you have done historically and you've done it well, if you haven't done it recently, it's almost like you're starting over again. And I thought that was because there was a million things we wanted to do, but we just needed to dial back in to the basics and the fundamentals. And that was the hardest part. But we figured it out and we got it done and we put it in the mail. And now it's going to be interesting to see what happens as a result of that. But even stuff that we were once very competent at, if we don't make it a priority or if we abandon it because. Because everybody else ran to it and we were adopters in other ways and innovators in other ways, then when everybody else catches up to us over there, it's really worthwhile to circle back around. That's why I'm excited about books now, Dean, because I never wrote a book in my life. Because when I get online, everybody was talking about books and bestseller books and they were doing all this book marketing and stuff. And I'm like, screw that, I don't want to do that. And now everybody's like, ah, forget books. Do webinars. It just sell, you know, products to high tickets and masterminds. And I'm like, let's go back to books again.

Yeah, right, right.

Well, you know, let me actually, let me speak to that for a moment too, because yeah, the, the thing that, that Jason just described, like, you know, I've done direct mail for years and I even have people that are within my company that have been with me for over a decade that have done some of these things. And so when it came to like this particular new letter, I mean, we still send out postcards, we still send out letters, we do a lot of handwritten stuff. I mean, my company does a lot of personalization of stuff. But in terms of this particular direct mail campaign, we were going back to some old school methodologies. Colored envelope. We looked at should we do FedEx versus a big oversized envelope, half page colored order form, goldenrod sort of paper, you know, I mean, looking at like literally old school stuff that I used to send, just hundreds of thousands of these types of letters in the mail. But we've not done a campaign like this in a while. And although I have at my fingertips all kinds of people that own, you know, print shops and letter shops and do direct mail campaigns and machines that do, you know, handwritten like indicias and all this sort of stuff, we like, didn't know it had been a while. Now, granted, I'm only looking at existing Genius Network members because one of my criteria is I don't like eating other people's dog food. Who's not willing to eat my dog food, meaning I like keeping it in the family. I mean, it's the very best way to have vendors and stuff for people that actually are into what it is that you do. I mean, you just get a whole nother level of service. And I had to, you know, pick and choose between a couple of different Genius Network members to do it. But, you know, Jason was absolutely right. I mean, I have people in my own company and they're like, oh, you know, including myself, like, I wasn't 100% sure. Which now brings back. I mean, I loved a couple of things you just said. Jason, I want to highlight these for people that are listening to this so they don't miss the significance of it because it reinforces the significance of having patience and, and having a long term view. In what Dean talked about with the gift card as a placeholder, in the example of the eyebrows is that you mentioned a nurturing cycle. And most people that don't even really get the timing related to wouldn't even comprehend a nurturing cycle. They could hear it, but they don't realize that there's seeds that you plant and the seed is not going to turn into a tree or a fruit or whatever, like the next day it needs to be harvested, it needs to be nurtured. And your whole analogy of, you know, the difference of a conversation on a dance floor versus, you know, sitting in a couch at your home or some sort of more focused environment, you know, the best message in the world is useless if you shout it at deaf ears. And also the best message in the world is useless if the person that's interested in it is so there's so much other noise around them they can't even hear it. I mean, that's another way to actually say it. And there's less noise in people's mailboxes than ever before. So go to where there's less noise and when there becomes more noise. So all of those things, like a lot of people that are listening to us right now and listen to our podcasts on a regular basis, they have in many cases all the ingredients that they would ever need in order to build whatever business, whatever recipe they want. It's just how they're presenting it. The timing, the packaging of it, the place, the environment. I mean, our friend Ben Hardy, whose book, you know, Willpower doesn't work about creating an environment. It really brings me back to a friend of mine, Dan Wheeler, who's been a host on QVC for years. And I remember when I first met him in the, in the late 90s through Joe Sugarman, you know, the inventor of blue blocker sunglasses. You know, we were doing a workshop at Joe Sugarman's home in Maui at the time that I was helping him with. And it was a really high priced event way back then. I mean, this was like, I think a $7,000 person event back then. That was a lot of money to be charging people for a two day event. Dan Wheeler was this guy that had sold at the time over $2 billion worth of products and services on QVC just as a host. And his whole job would be like, he doesn't even know what they're going to present to him five minutes from now. They have to give it to him and, and then he has to figure out how to present it, how to package it, how to sell it. Not a lot of research, very little setup time. And it's literally like selling improv. You're given a product and then you have to feature it in a certain way. And it may have the creator of the product right with you on qvc or you're just given this thing with a loose script and you have to run with it. One of the things that he said is that I have to create the perfect selling environment. So he used this analogy of how he had, there was a scooter, you know, he had like this where you, it's like a skateboard with, you know, a handle on it and you put one foot on it and then you have to wheel yourself around. And here he is, an adult trying to sell something that, you know, kids and young people are going to buy. And he has this little set where he's supposed to sell this scooter. And he's like, well, I can't demonstrate this scooter in a, you know, 10 by 10 little set area. So he had the cord, you know, back then, you know, they didn't have wireless cameras like they do today. And so he just like literally has this wired like mic. It just starts riding this freaking scooter down the halls in QVC and has the camera crew follow them. And he's like, because I need to create the perfect selling environment. And when you know what you guys are really saying in a lot of ways. And this is why I'm making, you know, hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse here. The reason I want to emphasize this is when you guys talk about this sort of stuff, Nurturing cycle, conversations on the dance floor, the gift card as a placeholder, when to send it, the different offers, I mean, you're literally creating a selling environment first in the minds of the people, but secondly, how it's.

Actually delivered to them.

You know, I mean, even Dean's whole thing about a book, you know, getting a book, you know, getting a physical book versus an electronic book, all of the other things, I mean, these are all elements that have to do with properly nurturing people at a particular given time. And, you know, you never step in the same river twice. And so me getting the same offer today is different than if I got the same offer three weeks from now, and three weeks from now it was delivered at a different time when I'm in a different place. And if people think that, oh, I'm just. See, the problem with today is you can have someone that does a great video or they get a shit ton of views on online or, you know, or a big share of an Instagram post or whatever, and then what is typical modern day like today, let's create the next one. Let's create the next one. And you just don't see people repurposing things in the way in the past, see, when it was much harder to get a letter in the mail, you had to spend money on postage. You had to really think through. People were more concerned, they were more appreciative, they were more nurturing of the messaging of the thing that they were offering. And when you're in such a fast pace, bazillion different options available to you, you actually tend to forget and neglect.

All of that stuff.

And if we could improve that like by 5% for our listeners, their business wouldn't just increase by 5%, it would probably double or triple. And so anyway, that's my whole point behind that. If you guys agree with me or want to speak to it, please. But I'm just trying to emphasize just what you guys are saying to place more value on it because it's really the secret sauce in a lot of ways of making your marketing more effective.

Well, confidence is one of the things you mentioned, how you never step in the same river twice. And that's absolutely true. But if somebody steps into a river for the first time and then they see an offer that they can take advantage of, that's not really taking. They don't have to take any risk. They don't have to commit to anything. They can gather some information. And now you know who they are three weeks from now when they step back in that river and you make an offer. If there's been some adding value, that now it's very different in that when they see an offer from you now, they know who you are. Oh, yeah, I know Joe and I know I like Joe. And that's why, you know, this whole thing of realizing that the river is going to keep moving. Right. And rather than like, wait at the base of the river for the base of the river being the moment that they're ready to take action.

Right.

Everybody's so focused on getting people into the funnel and converting them now. Right. Like we're. We're definitely a epc focused earnings per click, focused economy in indirect marketing now that it's about how much does it yield when I, you know, spend on. On Facebook, how much do I recoup in the. What's my ROI on that? And it's all 30 day based. You know, it's all before the credit card bill is due. Not thinking about the capital asset that you could be building of a group of people, a list of people who know you and are on their way to liking and trusting you, and you've got access to them to be able to make offers whenever they're. Whenever they're ready.

Yeah, yeah. Like, I know, I know Jason's gonna jump in on all this in a minute, so I just want to fit something in before he starts babbling about some nonsense. But nonetheless, you're supposed to sort of fake a laugh there, Jason, in order to keep this kind of chubby.

Well, he's in a trance.

Yeah.

He's so deeply by that comment, Joe.

So, like, what you said about putting, you know, like a pause between compelling, convincing, collaborating or know, like and trust. It's just kind of your whole thing on before, during and after. Or my thing with easy, lucrative and fun or sift, sort and screen. I mean, there's all of these different ways that we go about running a business. And more than anything, I think if people could literally slow down. I remember this one guy, and I won't mention his name. You guys know him personally. But he, you know, he tries to go out and just link himself to every famous person on the planet, but he really doesn't have the relationships with these people. It's like this sort of like, let me just name drop for the sake of name dropping. And I remember Dan Sullivan had met this guy, and he said to me, he goes, you know, he would be. If he talked half as much about half as many things that he does, he would be twice as effective. And I thought it was really funny.

Yeah.

If you really sit and think about all of the things you're trying to accomplish. If I looked at a lot of my friends and a lot of colleagues at all of their marketing as a whole, and I think Jason is actually a really good example of this. I mean, in. Jason, how old are you right now, Jason?

I'm 35 years old.

35. So you're at least 15 years older. I mean, older. Younger than me and Dean. I think you're like, 52 or something right now. How old are you?

Yeah, just turned. Yeah, just turned 52.

Yeah. And I'm 50. And so, you know, a lot happens in 15 years. And, you know, there's just a lot of. Lot of people that I know that are in there. You know, I mean, heck, I'm even doing a millennial and Gen X panel at my Genius Network event this year where I'm bringing in some of the sharpest young people that just kick ass and take names. And one of them, who's literally 17 years old, is making a killing using direct mail because no one his age, what he says actually does it. And he also has. Is very savvy on social media and how he uses a lot of sophisticated engagement tools. But the thing is, if a lot of these people spent half the time on some of the different platforms they're trying to use and went far deeper. Instead of three videos a week, they did a really killer video once a week that got five times as many views than doing three. They would just simply be infinitely more effective. And I think that applies to me. I think it applies to everybody. And so anyway, that's one of the big, you know, even though that wasn't per se, talking about books and webinars and all of that, there's. There's a lot to do with the tempo, because you know what I've always said with running contest models, you know, like, I gave my Tesla as a prize for Ben Hardy's Willpower Doesn't Work contest. And if someone's not seen that, go to willpowerdoesnwork.com we're literally giving away. And one of the things that we say in A contest that, you know, everything measured improves, and everything measured and reported improves exponentially. So whenever we can put people into a process where they can start measuring their results, they're going to get improvement because they're looking at it. And the same thing goes with marketing. If you're not tracking your marketing, how the hell do you know what's working and what isn't? And then when you have to report it, and in our particular case, doing a contest because they'll, you know, they'll actually. They could win something, they could be chosen, then they're going to be a lot more diligent about tracking and placing importance on it. And one of the things that we say all the time is if you're going to work out, you know, an hour at a time, three times a week, and you're going to put three hours a week into exercise, and you don't change your diet, you don't change the amount of sleep you're getting, you don't change the food that you're doing, you don't change the weights. I mean, what's one thing not including those that you could change that would dramatically squeeze more juice out of those three hours a week? And so I'd ask people a bunch of different. Hardly anyone gets it right. And sometimes someone will say intensity. And so the question is, if you increase intensity, you will get far more out of anything if you increase your focus. Like Cal Newport talks about with deep work. In this particular case, you know, there's a lot of people that are out there telling the road to success is you gotta hustle, you gotta work your ass off, you gotta be nonstop, you gotta be on every platform, you gotta communicate with everyone. I mean, and the truth is, in some cases, if you want to be famous and you want everyone to know who you are and you want to get a bazillion likes. That may be true, but in a lot of cases, it's simply the worst advice you could ever give someone. Part of it is like, do half the amount of shit. Do it more methodical, really think through long term and be patient with a lot of stuff. And patience cannot be confused with getting a result. I mean, there's a different thing. You know, repeating something that fails is not patience. That's just stupidity. So anyway, that's. That's sort of one of the things I want to communicate. I really think if people applied this, they could probably work a lot less harder and they could probably get a lot more effectiveness if they were just more, I guess, conscious about what they're saying who they're saying it to, when they're saying it, and thinking, you know, I mean, going out to 10,000 prospects, very shallow, is probably less effective than going out to 100 very deeply. I mean, you know, that's exactly right.

Yeah. I mean, unless you're selling knickknacks, you know, at gas stations, at the counter or checkout, most of us aren't in these businesses where we're a volume kind of company, right? So we get more by being hyper focused and then delivering substantially higher value to a select audience than trying to spread it over a variety of different audiences. And I mean, a lot of this guys is, you know, so. So I'll give you a micro and macro example of what Joe just said, because he really triggered me of the challenge I was going through yesterday. So, for example, the 8020 rule, right? You can't go to a seminar these days. You could probably go to a, a basket weaving seminar and somebody would reference the 8020 rule, right? It's no longer some big secret. Everybody's heard of it. And the challenge is if you start to give examples of the 8020 rule, everybody repeats the same examples as the lesson. So you'll hear not only that 8020 rule when you go to these seminars, but you'll hear the same exact reference points of the 8020 rule. Like 20% of motorists cause 80% of accidents. You wear 20% of your clothes 80% of the time. 20% of your carpets get 80% of the wear, right? And so I'm sitting there thinking the other day, I'm like, how could I teach this in a way that was much more specific and could really have an impact if somebody heard it right, what could I do to give that extra little leverage to gain more credibility to impress upon them and then make more of an impression by explaining the 8020 rule in a different way. So I started thinking about that. I'm like, what are some real world, very good, specific examples that nobody mentioned that they should be mentioning? Maybe are there actual things? And so I went on a research tangent. Took me three hours to find just a couple of examples that I thought were interesting. And I'll give you the most interesting one. And I'm actually, I love this because by just spending a few more hours than everybody else, I feel like I can have much more impact if I were to educate on a concept like this, right? And so Warren Buffett, if you want to talk about the 8020 rule or the rule of a vital few or whatever version of it. You want to name it as. Guess how much of his profits come from how many stocks? A lot of people don't know this. It's a very interesting example of the 8020 rule in a way where we all know the person. We all know Warren Buffett, but we probably don't know what that breakdown is. This is a living example of the 8020 rule, and I can't find it, unfortunately. I tried to look it up right now, but it's.

I was waiting for you to tell us. Now we're, like, sitting on the edge of our seat as you're salting this.

You know, it's ridiculous. I didn't even know this because I, you know, because I. It totally shaped my whole view, again, of Warren Buffett as an investor because I assume that he was just, you know, picking a whole bunch of.

Okay, here it is.

Got it right? 90% of Warren Buffett's wealth comes from just 10 investments. All right? 10 investments produce 90% of his stock or 90% of his wealth. So this is my favorite one. IPhone only has 19% of the smartphone market, but it makes 87% of the profits in that market. And now here's something that is directly applicable that a lot of people don't realize about online, which is getting me very hesitant to spend money on online advertising right now, is we have a duopoly of online advertising spending. So 77% of all digital advertising dollars are spent with just two companies, Google and Facebook.

Right.

And that's scary. By the way, guys, anytime you have.

A duopoly, monopoly will go up.

Yeah. Prices will go up artificially, and you're going to get less of a result. So you want to kind of not go where the masses go, but if you don't have any viable alternatives, what do you do? Right? So the thing that I was thinking about this is, you know, wouldn't you guys agree that instead of just using blase, boring, stuffy, 8020 concepts to explain this point, you know, doing that extra research like I just did there, that has a bigger impact, doesn't it? It makes you make. It makes it real to you. It has more of an impression, and it makes you really say, okay, I know iPhones. I have an iPhone. I never thought about the fact that iPhone has such a small segment of the market, but it's the most profitable segment. Or that Warren Buffett isn't just hitting every stock out of the park when he picks it. He's just. He knows how to pick the few stocks that make the biggest Amount of impact. And that's something you will never hear probably any other speaker say. Because I only spend another hour or two to figure out a deeper way, what I feel is a more impactful way to make the point. And as a result, I get all the leverage. They say, wow. And it's different. I feel different. I, I, I have insight I can't get anywhere else. And you put that in a nurture sequence and it becomes unstoppable. You know, it's like you, you go to me. My goal when I do business, guys, is even if you don't like me and even if you don't trust me, you'll still buy from me.

That's right.

That's the, that's what I obsess over. And why would you do that in that scenario? Because I have something you can't get anywhere else. That's what I'm trying to aim for. And that's one of the ways that we do that. We go very in depth. We go, we go to the segment of the market where they're not price resistant, they're value focused and value orientated. In most markets, that's just a, that's maybe 7, 9, 12, 11%, right? But guess what happens? Nobody focuses deliberately on that small segment. They want their message to be equally heard by each and every person. But, you know, when I go down to Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills to buy a suit, they don't even show me the price tag. They just say, oh, yeah, you know, so, so embarrassingly so, guys, I spent $11,000 at the store the other day to buy a couple, you know, suit, two shirts, two, you know, two pocket squares and a parachute, right? And the sales clerk comes out to me when it's all said and done, he goes, you're just a little over 10. And I laughed. I'm like, what better way to describe price?

Just a little over 10.

Just a little over 10 right now. Now you go, you go to Macy's or you go to Kohl's, and the clerk is just going to be like, and he's going to probably yell it, hey, it's, you know, it's $327. And you can treat an average client like that, but a luxurious client wants to be treated a different way. When they gave me the sparkling water versus the regular water, not only did they give me that choice, but they brought it out with this beautiful black satin thing that they put underneath of it. And it wasn't in, you know, your mom's cocktail glass, right? It was a very nice cup. Even the business cards were like. It reminded me of, you know, you've.

Hit on something though that at the top of the market that so much of the money is there. I'm in Toronto right now. I'm at the Hazleton Hotel. And right in the Hazleton, directly below where I'm sitting right now is, is a watch store for Richard Mille. Now Richard Mille sells some of the most expensive watches in the world. They average $185,000. There's not a single watch in the store that I'm sitting above right now that is less than $100,000. And they sold 500 or $540 million worth of watches not last year, but the year before when I first kind of discovered them and looked at it. And what they found was that at $185,000 they're alone in the market. There's lots of 50, 60, $70,000 watches and there are million dollar plus watches but there's nobody in the $185,000. That's what I saw an interview with him where he basically said we kind of had no idea. We underestimated the market for, for this portion of it. All this guy wanted to do was is a craftsman build the very best watches regardless of what it cost. That was his thing.

Right.

He started the watch company at 50 something years old and wanted it to be just a statement thing of building the very best watches without regard to the cost. Let's do it the very best and then we'll figure out what it needs to be priced. Right. And it reminded me of the whole Stella Artois thing of being reassuringly expensive. You know that there's that top of the market is. That's one of the standard things that you can always count on that the year when you get to the top, the tippy top of the market, there's more and more wealth and less and less price resistance.

You know, let me speak to that real quick too with what both of you guys are saying this requires in order to really here's where this won't make any sense to anyone. If you're like a transaction minded individual versus a transformation or a depth minded, you know, it's the difference between, you know, selling something to one person develop versus selling a relationship. If you're a relationship marketer, you know, Richard Mille watches aren't thrown together. I mean there is no massive amount of craft.

Yeah, yeah.

And basically you can't just oh, I'm just going to price my Watches or my product or my whatever at this price point, because there's a market for people out there. I mean, this, this, develop, this requires in the same way that Jason said, I spent a good deal of time doing research. The setup for these things requires a proper setup. Now that doesn't mean you have to crawl through broken glass in order to figure out how to make your business more effectively. As a matter of fact, it may just be putting your into an environment and being thoughtful and really think through the customer or client experience. And it doesn't necessarily even mean that you need to be the most expensive. It just means you just need to really think through what are people actually buying from you, what is it? How are you presenting it? I mean, I've always loved the analogy. You can have a beautiful piece of art and you can duct tape it to the wall, or you can frame it and you can put nice lighting and you can put it into a museum or a certain sort of setup and it creates a much, entirely different sort of experience. And everybody that's listening can frame what it is they do in better ways. I mean, they just can if they spend the time thinking about it. And they. And we've kind of laid it out for them. I mean, I think this is a really important episode. I mean, we've done a lot of episodes about techniques and strategies and things like this. But I think this is a really important episode. And what I'd like to do, just for timing purposes, what I'd like to wrap up with is talk about a couple of things that could be really helpful for people. First off, I think everyone should get a copy of Jason's new book. I mean, me and Jason did Genius webinars and if people want the full blown video training of that, that is available. However, if you just want to spend a few dollars and literally get a roadmap of his book, you'd be well served to do that. Secondly, Dean, I'd like you've got some breakthrough blueprints that are coming up and if anyone wants to go in depth with you, they should do that. And third, you know, I've got my addiction recovery book that's coming out for people in the field of addiction recovery, which is a miracle morning for addiction recovery that I did with Anna David and Hal Elrod that comes out at the end of June. And then I've got the Genius Network annual event. And if people wanted to like literally see how we're, you know, how we apply the things we're talking about today into the marketing and promotions of that event, they can see that. And more importantly, you know, when it comes to really high end, most people that come to my events are people that will, you know, it's. My events are typically, you know, 10, 20, 30 times more in terms of price than most seminars. But I tend to think they're probably 100 times better simply because a lot of the individuals that come to my events don't go to seminars. I mean, they literally come to Genius Network because they pay for who's not in the room just as much as they pay for who's in the room. And so there's a lot of different ways. So I'd like to, I'd like to give the people that have listened to this some places they can go beyond this to go deeper with what this whole conversation has been about. So I'll start with you, Jason.

Yeah, so just go to Amazon and One to Many is the name of the book. You'll see it, it'll be right at the top. Jason Flavlin. I recommend the paperback version. I don't even read Kindle anymore, guys. I don't know about you. I have this program where I don't even take my phone for the first five hours of the day anymore. And I found I've been way more creative. But if they want that book, go there and get the book. And most important too, don't just read the book. See how I use the book to sell very expensive back end stuff because the book is the first step in a nurturing sequence, right?

Totally. Oh, by the way, we're going to put all the links that we talked about in the show notes@ilove marketing.com so if you want to go there, we'll put the link to Jason's book. We'll put a link so you can see the actual, if you want the live or the video training and then you know, and then whatever you're going to talk about. Dean will place the links for that also in the, in the show notes and all that. So cool, Mr. Jackson. And don't speak so quickly, Dean. Makes you wonder, Jason, did he fall off the planet?

No.

There we go. Here we go. I had myself on mute for a second. Can you hear me now?

We can hear you.

Okay. I was. So I just got arrived in Toronto, starting my world tour this summer. Going all over the place, doing my breakthrough blueprint events here in Toronto. Going to London in a couple of weeks at the end of June, Amsterdam beginning of July, then coming to Sydney, Australia in August and then Back to Florida in October and December. Those are my favorite things. Three days we spend in conversation just applying the eight profit activators and all the things we talk about here on. I love marketing to your business in a small group, 10 or 12 people. It's my favorite thing ever to do. This is the. Actually I was having brunch with Dan Sullivan today and this month is the sixth year anniversary of the first breakthrough blueprint that I did, 2012. Isn't that amazing? Six years. And it's motivating and fascinating. I've never, you know, never had the same event twice. That's what's really exciting about it. I'm coming to London and there's a few of the people that come to the London event have been to every event that I've done there, minus one. And it's kind of an interesting thing because it's always a good thing to multi layers. You know, my, my depth of understanding of all the, the, you know, the intricacies and the subtleties of how the eight profit activators all work is really like leaps and bounds, you know, once I've committed myself to focusing that that's the context that I'm using for everything that I'm doing. The lessons and the things that we learn over the six years of applying it literally to hundreds of different businesses is a multiplier, you know.

Yeah, totally. And what I would say too is if anyone, you know, I mean, this, we're all, we're all converts of our own system. And you know, you don't just become like a great marketer by reading, you know, a book or going to one seminar. I mean, it's an ongoing, consistent study. I mean, you guys, for, you know, you've been at this game for many, many years and you still on almost a daily basis are reading and studying. I mean, that's how we talk about all this stuff. We're not like, oh, we've done some campaigns, we've made a bunch of money. I mean, so we're probably some of the biggest students of the craft that we talk about here. So our ability to get on the phone and talk about this stuff is really. Because on a daily basis we're working it and we're doing it. And so if you want to, you know, really get good at webinars, you know, study the guy who is the best in the world at it, which would be Jason Fladlin, and apply and do what he says and go deeper with it as you're doing it. And then Dean, I Mean, there's not a single person on the planet that cannot spend the time with you in the breakthrough blueprints. And it's not a listen to Dean talk, it's like listen to Dean guide and direct you. Then you got to think through your business and you've got to plan it. And you know, it's not the plan that's important, it's the planning. And so when you go into the planning, you not only get the plan that comes out of it, but you literally go through the thinking about it. And then if you want to connect with some of the greatest entrepreneurs on a regular basis, then look at what I do@gieniusnetwork.com because that's. And then once a year I do an annual event. It's the only event that people that are not paying 25,000 a year for Genius Network or 100,000 a year for Genius X, which of which both Dean's part of Genius Network and Jason's a Genius X member. You come and you connect. So what I've really framed a lot of Genius Network about in this year's event is going to be built around health, wealth and elf.

So great health, great wealth.

And then how do you set things up so it's in your business? You have an easy, lucrative and fun business versus a half business, which is hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. And from a personal standpoint, even easy, liberating and fun. And of course, Dean, you're very much a guy that lives, eats and breathes a friction free lifestyle, setting things up even far more effectively than I do because frankly, I think I'm more neurotic and more driven to like, you know, save addicts and do all that stuff. Whereas I think you just want to like sit around and fucking read all day long and pontificate about shit. So, you know, I think that's the real motivation with, with Dean Jackson, but nonetheless, to each their own. And you know, however you want to live your life is how you want to live your life. So hopefully through what me and Jason and Dean have talked about, you can apply. You know, I always say this, you know, treat everything in a learning situation like a 12 step group. You know, take what you like and leave the rest. You may not agree with everything we talk about, but certainly the things that resonate with you, you know, take them and apply them and do something with it. So I'd like to leave the last words and guid up to you guys and we'll continue. We're going to be doing more frequent podcasts. It's funny, Dean. Me and you started this in 2010. And we've gone through phases where we've been super consistent with things and then life happens and we'll go into different sort of directions. But we're going to be sharing some upcoming things because the world is in such incredible ways. Things are coming down the line that are technologies. But if you don't understand the psychology, which is really what, you know, we talk about on. I love marketing is the. Is principle based psychology, then even though there's going to be holograms, like at this year's annual event, we're going to. Me and Kevin Harrington are going to bring on Zig Ziglar and we're going to do a presentation with Zig Ziglar delivered via hologram. Like, he's on stage with us at this, you know, so we're going to be introducing people to AI, to hologram. All these things are going to be part of marketing, you know, augmented reality, VR. All these things are going to be part of it. But if you don't understand the psychology and most people won't.

They won't take.

They'll think that, oh, I just need to go buy a VR headset or I need to get this AI thing. And they have no clue how that. How to convert people. And what we talk about is how to actually be a master chef with this stuff. It's not about having the right pots and pans and the knives. You actually got to know how to cook and you got to know how to put it together. So that's why you want to come and listen to us talk when we do these things.

All right, so.

So you guys hit. Hit us with some funny shit and then we'll call it a. We'll call it a day.

Well, I can't wait. I'm gonna get my. Get a selfie with the Zig hologram. That's something.

Yeah, I'm curious about that one. I haven't even thought about that one through, but you know what I mean, Selfies. Can we do a photo op with.

I don't.

That's. I'm gonna find that one out. That's interesting. That would be.

Actually, let. Actually, let's talk to Kevin about that because that would be a really cool thing if you could, like, get a, you know, a hologram, like a freeze frame hologram thing and get in there with Zig. That would be cool.

I don't.

Yeah, there's gotta, you know. Well, here's what's kind of funny too. So the company that actually does this, they have like a patent on it and they've done it with Tony Robbins and they've done it with Ray Kurzweil. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna come to. Like, this is some backstage stuff that I usually don't say publicly, but I'll just say it, screw it, because it's kind of interesting. So Jason's ingenious x, which is 100k group that I do with Dean Graziosi, and we have like 25 members that pay 100 grand a year to be part of this group that's all about scaling their marketing. And so in August this year, which, you know, our Genius Network annual event is November 2nd and 3rd with a half day event on the 4th here in Phoenix, Arizona. Beautiful time of the year in Phoenix. So it'll be freezing and snowing somewhere else. So, you know, it just sucks everywhere else. But it's like amazing here. And so like, I'm planting a seed here for this, as I say this stuff. But basically, a couple of months before the event, at the 100k meeting, we're going to have Kevin Harrington and we're going to have his partner in the company, they're going to come to the 100k meeting and they're going to show everyone in 100k how this actually works and what we're going to be doing at the annual event so that it's not just people witnessing, but they're going to be able to see, oh, here's how you can actually beam yourself into across the world or another location and you can present. And we're going to like share this with all the 100k members because it's show and tell. And then when they see it live at the annual event, they'll kind of know what's happening. But for people that have never seen that before, they're going to be like, oh, my God, this is unbelievable. Yeah, those are some of the things that we set up. And frankly, I think what we do on this podcast is kind of like show and tell of the people that are really doing amazing stuff and explaining why. And you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts, but I'll tell you, there's, you know, we goof around a lot. You know, I'm super add, I understand all that, but I do believe we really, out of all of the specific marketing techniques, especially if people go and listen to the very beginning of I love marketing. Like, we tell people exactly what to do, how to do it, we show them examples. I mean, it's very. It's not only very strategic, but it's very tactical too, and it's tied into a plan. And so I think. And that's one of the feedbacks that people give me all the time. And we know we have people that have become millionaires, Dean, that have never bought anything from you or I just simply by listening and applying what we've talked about on this podcast. And that's why I love bringing Jason into this, because Jason is like just a master at what he does and how he does it. And he's just helped so many people, you know, build and grow their companies with how he teaches people. So, anyway. All right, Jason, you have anything else you want to say?

Yes, I do. I'm going to predict. Here's the thing is the next time you guys have me on here, wink, wink, Right. I want to share with you an insight I got because I had a private, smallish dinner with Jeff Bezos recently. I missed an opportunity to post them what became the most viral video the next day on Reddit. And so I want to examine and explain that situation on the next podcast that we have. So how's that for.

Oh, wow.

And nurturing. And extending the nurturing cycle.

I like that. I can't wait.

No, I love.

You know what I would like to do? I would almost, you know, I wish I was more prep because I'm just thinking this off the top of my head. This is an episode that if everyone listening, like, had to say, okay, you've heard this. Now I want you to write up insights notes. What did you get out of this? If someone wrote up a short article, you know, here's the top three takeaways of what I got from this and how to apply them. And they would write up like an article, like the biggest insights and action steps that would be taken from this episode and they share that, those insights with people and include a link to this episode. I would love to create, like a user generated, crowdsourced way of people taking the insights that they've got from this and explaining, you know, here's what I got out of this, here's how I'm going to use it, here's how I'm going to share it. And they share this episode and like, whoever, like, just writes up the best article or the best description of what this is. And I'd like to start incentivizing and creating a contest where, you know, like, I've got some of the greatest marketing books and strategies on the planet and I would physically Mail those things to people, whoever. Like, we create a winner. Do you guys have any? I mean, we can just kind of plant the seed for it now, but I would love for when me, Dean, and Jason all get together and just start talking about stuff where whoever does the best job of sharing the episode out to the world and explaining what they got out of it, how they're going to apply it. For one, it benefits us, of course, because it's, you know, introducing more people to our conversation and our podcast. And secondly, it. It is going to help you because it goes back to everything measured improves. Everything measured and reported improves exponentially. And when you actually have to think through, oh, what did I get out of this? And you have to. And you spend, you know, a few minutes writing it up, kind of like journaling about it, but you do it in a way to where you're going to share it. Then you're just going to go deeper with what we talked about. And I'd love to create, like, whoever does the best job. Every time we do it, we're going to send them like a gift bag. They don't even need to know what it is. But it will be filled with immensely valuable goodies and wisdom and usefulness. I would love to be able to do that. So do you guys have any thoughts? Because my thinking is tell everyone to just write something up, post it online and tag us and then we'll select. Or we literally start putting it on the I Love Marketing Facebook page and people share it there or we put it on, you know, any of our.

I mean, Joe, this would be what would make it work, I think. So Joe and I were having this discussion yesterday, Dean. It was really fascinating because we're in the middle of my book launch and I'm talking to him about, we want to get 1005 star reviews for this book. And the thing that we messed up on because we kind of just threw this against the wall and sprinted because we weren't even really planning it. So implementation done imperfectly beats perfect implementation that never gets done right. And I was explaining to Joe, I said, when we used to do this in the physical product side of Amazon, when a customer would buy our product, we'd follow up with them. And we said, hey, reviews are the most important thing to us as a small company. That's basically our advertising department is our customers. We like to focus on our customers and put our resources there. So make sure you leave a review of this product. Now let me show you what a good review looks like, right? And Then we would actually walk them through as in depth as possible. We say, first of all, any review is a good review as long as it comes from the heart. So link doesn't matter. The good thing you should know about Amazon is you can leave a short review today like this and then come back later and edit it and add more to it like that, which, you know, handles the objection of I can't review this until I'm qualified to review this, which turns into never, right? And it was, it is such a ridiculous step down, pare down. Such as simplified, such as, you know, this is going deep, right, guys, you might spend four hours to develop this up front, but then you never have to do it again and you get 100 times more reviews. So if we were to incentivize people to share, right, we would have to make it a target that was so clear and so big and so easy to hit that people would have no ambiguity with what to do to move forward, right? So it could very, very much simply be. It has to be 100 words or less. Here's an example of a recent episode where we did this ourselves to show you the application of it, right? Here's how you spread it. Give them one of three options to do it very specifically. And then of course, anything that you want to do to go above and beyond that will probably increase your chances of winning the prize. And then we can, we can keep it Cracker Jack mystery style prize. I think that's okay, right? But people have a very hard time of knowing what to do for new behaviors and how to adapt them. And the clearer and crystallization that we can put it in front of them so it's as real as it can possibly get. And the less creative visual visualization they have to do to adopt it, the better we will all be because of it. Because we give them very specific targets to hit. They hit them and then guess what we get? Guess what we do, guys? We step back and we observe and we say, ooh, this is what I'm now noticing based on the responses. I bet if we added this to it or put this on top of it or iterated this, you know, in a year later we would have a model that would be the. Yeah, I'll tell you what would happen. It would be stolen and knocked off as many times as every innovative other.

Exactly. Right, right, yeah, yeah.

I want that to happen to us, guys.

Well, look, in reality, I mean, we give people exactly what we're doing and how to do it, and we make it available for Free. And I think at the end of the day, and I've never yet have we done sponsorships or anything with I Love Marketing. I mean, we'll mention things here and there that we, you know, offer and sell, but for the most part, I mean, this is a total public service. There's people that are doing podcasts that don't, you know, I mean, they can. It's not that difficult to impress people with, like, stories and words and philosophical thoughts, but giving people exact strategies and ways to think about doing it that's going to actually make them money is extraordinarily valuable. And we do want people to utilize what it is we do. We also. One of the things I also want to re up is meetup groups, because I've had a lot of people saying, we have the I Love Marketing meetup group here in Arizona, but we're going to be actively encouraging people to start I Love Marketing meetup groups and the people that are still running them, many have been doing it for years to just be offering more recommendations and support on how to build it. Because we're now living in a place where when people get together in person and talk about what we talk about on these podcasts, they just go much deeper with it. So on the show notes, let's think through that communication. And what I would ask people to do now is go to ilovemarketing.com if you are not currently on the I Love Marketing list, when we'll notify you of a new episode, or we'll send out useful stuff on a regular basis just to help you. We'll get on our list, go to ilovemarketing.com, get on the list, and then let's think through the exact communication on this incentivized model. And when we do another episode, we'll have it dialed in, but we can. We can literally send everybody the offer and we can put it on the show notes of what it is and go from there. Is there anything else you guys want to say to it about that? But I'm thinking that's the best path for now.

That's a great start. That's an awesome start. Yeah. Cool. Cool.

So let's think this through. We'll put it on the show notes and then you can. And if we do have your email, then we will just notify you. Here it is, and here's what to do. And in the meantime, take the time right now and just write up while it's fresh on your mind. If you just finished this episode, write up like an article for us, post it online, tag me and Dean or Jason, although Jason's not a big Facebook guy. And we'll offer great stuff to whoever does the very best job and go from there. It's going to be Gary Halbert's birthday, four days from the time that we're recording this, just to not date it. I won't even say what that is because by the time this is up, it'd probably be too late. But I want to give a shout out in the karmic world to Gary, who was wacky as hell and crazy, and you either loved him or you hated him. But the guy was brilliant when it came to marketing. And we've done a lot of episodes where me and where we've talked about lessons we've learned from Gary Halbert. So he was A lot of people today utilize stuff that was created by Gary that they don't even realize the origin of this sort of stuff. So that's it for now. To everyone listening, thanks. This is Joe Polish with Dean Jackson and Jason fladlin. Go to ilovemarketing.com right now. If this is your first time listening to this podcast, subscribe on itunes and all of us have podcasts. You can subscribe to all of them and have a great day. Thanks for listening.

Bye, guys.

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