Media Master Class Part 2: How to Skyrocket Your Media Attention, Viewership and Audience with Paula Rizzo and Joe Polish - Genius Network Episode #127

I can't tell you how many experts pitched me five, six, seven, eight times before I said yes. But the ones that were consistently still there, they stick in your head and then you go back to them as a resource.

Paula Rizzo works with experts, authors and entrepreneurs on how to position themselves for media, build effective lists and engage customers. She knows how to get and keep media attention and knows what it takes to build those relationships from the ground up. Paula's list making and productivity hacks help busy entrepreneurs be more productive, more successful, and less stressed. In this episode, Paula Rizzo and Joe Polish answer audience questions after her masterclass. If you haven't heard it, be sure to listen to episode 126 first in this Q and A. You'll gain some practical uses for what Paula taught in part one based on what audience members experience in their own lives and businesses. Go to geniusnetwork.com 127 to access the show notes for this episode along with an exercise to help you take action on what Paula and Joe teach most authors.

If they could just be on Oprah, you know, I mean, everybody wants that sort of deal, right?

Right.

So are there any recommendations, tips, anything that you've learned that allows you to go straight to or as close to the very best, the top versus wasting a lot of time? Because I think a lot of people could, in the pursuit of trying to get media, could just be spinning their wheels.

Yeah, I mean, it's not that hard to get it if you do try and if you show up, because I can't tell you the amount of people who will pitch and then not be available. It happens all the time. And then guess what? I call you. You don't come, you. You're dead to me. I find someone else who showed up. Maybe he wasn't as good, but guess what? He showed up. He saved my segment. He was kind of a nice guy. It was fine. I call him the next time I don't call you because you didn't show up for me. So it's just showing up sometimes that's half the thing. And then consistently, like I said, being a good person and really caring about the producer or the show or not just about yourself and not just about getting attention for your business and all that stuff.

Okay, so I'll ask you one more about just how do you personally set up your life to focus, stay motivated, and succeed?

Well, I.

Let me guess. List.

I really do. I mean, lists. I'm singing the list song here, but it really has changed so much about how I Do things. And, you know, we all talked about having too much stuff on our list. But really being able to pare down and figure out what my productivity style is has been amazing for me. So to know that I don't really like to do stuff. Somebody was saying what they do the first two hours of their day, right? So it's. For me, I don't like to do work the first two hours of the day. And even though I've read all of those articles about why you should be more productive in the morning and why really successful people wake up at 4am and you should do that too. I don't wanna do that. And so I don't do that. Cause then I'll be bitter and angry if I do that. So I really tap into what feels good for me. And knowing that if, okay, if I start at 10am or 11am and then my day goes a little bit longer, or I know that I'm better at writing in the afternoon than I am in the morning, I'm gonna do that and really be true to myself rather than doing what they told me to do in an article.

So one of the things, when it comes to productivity or derailing yourself, I think most people, and it comes in different forms, have their kryptonite. They have, like if you take a Superman or Superwoman, there's something that totally derails them. And the ability to identify what throws you off. It could be emotional triggers, it could be addiction, it could be certain types of foods, it could be not getting enough sleep, it could be going to bed too late. What are some of the kryptonites that you have discovered that totally throw you off that you have?

Oh, well, yeah. I mean, it's going down the rabbit hole of seeing this, seeing that, seeing all these things that I could possibly be doing. But for me, it's really being structured and having, here's what I'm going to do with this day. And here's, like I said at the end of this meeting, I'm going to go structure in some time to go figure out what I'm doing for what I wanted to do for here. The other piece too is that talking about productivity style. Another issue too is that people fall into the, oh, it's going to take five minutes. I'll just do it because it'll take five minutes. And then 15, 20, 30 minutes later, you're still working on that one. And I, as a TV producer, time. I know exactly how long 30 seconds is. I know how long a minute is. Most people Don't. And so I always tell people to start timing yourself when you do certain tasks. And you can do it with a stopwatch or sometimes I use this website called Toggl.

Toggl.

Yeah. And you can put in what project you're working on and then time yourself. And it's amazing. It's so eye opening to see how long does it actually take me to do these things. When I thought it was gonna take no time at all, it took forever and vice versa. And so if you know that about yourself, then you can structure your day in a way that's easier to get more done because you really know how long it will take you to do these tasks.

Yeah. And so any apps, technology hacks, anything that have been absolute game changers. You mentioned Toggle. Anything that you think people here would be super well served to. And it could be a strategy, like, for instance, a kryptonite. For me, Absolutely. Like, and I notice this if I'm at home versus if I travel, if I have my phone, I do not have enough control or willpower to sleep with the phone next to me. Even if I turn it on airplane mode, which I would always do. There is something magnetically addictive to me about, oh, it's right there. So I have to have a phone outside of my room or across the room, and if I keep it anywhere near me, it just. It messes with my brain.

I do the same thing. I can't have my phone in my room, in my bedroom. I have it in my kitchen. Every single day it's the same thing. Because I feel the same. I just knowing it's there, I'll jump on it. But the same thing for me is with articles, I always say, oh, this is such a great article. I need to read it right now. And then you start reading the article and then you're like, wait, what was I doing? I was in the middle of something else. And then you're 10 pages in or whatever. But I really like this app called pocket. It's getpocket.com is a website and they have an app so you can just capture that article. So I don't feel bad about, oh, I'm going to miss it if I don't read it right this second. And then it captures it and then I can go in and I can check it out. When I have more time, I have all those articles that I wanted to read. So that's a good time saver for me. So I don't get it down the rabbit hole.

So let's take some Q and A from the audience and so let me grab a mic over here and I'll throw these out.

I did a one off conference five years ago called BehaviorCon about consumer psychology and how it relates to marketing and Forbes picked it up. So because it was in Forbes and there were lots of mentions of consumer psychology, I guess it's like super SEO friendly. So four or five years later I still every month or so get a call or an inquiry from a journalist or a TV producer that I'm a consumer psychology expert. Right. But my bandwidth is like a few subjects. Not like ladies undergarments or you know, like perfume. Like I know what I know and I know what I don't know.

If you need something about the lady.

Under you, just call me.

I can tell you plenty.

Or you know, like luxury goods, you know, just stuff that I don't, that's like not my lane. Right. So I say I take the responsible approach. I think I'm not your expert on that, but if I can support you with health or self help. So what's the best way to a respond to a reporter? I would think just acknowledge you don't know that, but is that the best way? And if it is, how do you stay on that person's radar for the subject that you really do know?

Yeah, that's a good question because that happens often where we'll reach out and think, oh, you're the person and then maybe they're not, but you're a resource to us. And so that's how you should, that's how you should handle it. You say I'm not the best person to handle this, but this other person is. If you have someone else to offer up, that's always great and if not, that's fine too. You can just say, hey, I'd rather talk about this, this or that. Would it be okay to pitch you at some point? Or I have some ideas on that front or would you be the appropriate person to talk to about that? Keep that person's contact and then follow up with them. And maybe it's that you're sending them things that maybe you're not going to be the perfect person to talk about, but you saw that it was interesting and you know that they cover it and so you wanted to send it along or you found an expert that you thought maybe they would be interested in talking to. So for you being the resource again, being a good person, I remember that as a journalist and I think, oh yeah, that guy Michael, he's the One who sent me this other great expert. Oh, I should ask him. He's just something that has to do with health. We should talk to him. So the thing is, everyone wants instant gratification, right? You want it done now. You want the story and the article and all the things now. It could be a slow burn, it could take a really long time. I can't tell you how many experts pitched me five, six, seven, eight times before I said yes. But the ones that were consistently still there and not, you know, annoying, but they were helpful, they said, hey, here's this other thing or look at this or whatever it is they stick in your head and then you go back to them as a resource.

Well, I mean if there's been any key to anything that I've done is just being really useful continuously to enough people. You can't please everyone. But I have. What I would do in a situation like that is I would find someone that they're looking for. And you can, today anyone can do this with a Google search. I mean it's amazing the amount of shit that you can find with a Google search and that they just won't do. And you say in here, hopefully this helps you. And by the way, here's two or three different topics that I can speak to and I would. So because see this is like getting Robert Cialdini ish with someone is you give them something which then instills reciprocity. Then you offer them something that they can do from you and, and see the very best time to get them interested. Like the best way to ask for a favor is when you've just done one for somebody. And I'm very sparingly on how I use it. I actually stack things up, you know, like people, I'll just do things for them, do things for them, do things for them and eventually they just, you know, just naturally occurs. Cause I don't even think about it that much.

Had a matter a couple of years ago. Somebody was trying to pitch me on getting involved with a show that was a pre production. They were putting it together and I don't know anything about this. I had a lot of suspicions about it and I really couldn't connect this person with the industry. But I basically get a phone call. So I don't know if it's, you know, I talk to her, but I can't really collaborate anything and lots of things are in pre production in LA now. I got word later that it might have been a show that I think is still running on Fox. Strange Inheritance So I basically tried to backtrack this thing, but I'm unable to. I don't have any contacts there, so. And I realized that the production is independent production company, et cetera. So I'm trying to weigh on one part, like, do I pursue if I get pitched by somebody who has actually come to me as an expert in my area, as opposed to somebody who I actually want to pitch, but I don't have contacts with any thoughts on that.

So the first question is, well, is.

Related to the credibility. The second one is having no contacts with a known show that's in production or about to be in production. So if you were approached by somebody and you really don't know if it's.

Legitimate or not, well, I think do your homework. Obviously you did, and you decided that that wasn't an opportunity that would work for you. But I would say at any point, if you have any opportunity to do any media, you do it. Because like I said, you're gonna get passed over the next time and you don't know where that producer is gonna end up the next time. Right? So that happens all the time. I was at fox for over 10 years. That doesn't happen a lot. What happens is producers go from place to place to place to place, and guess what they do? They take their Xbox with them and they rebook them wherever they go. Right. So that's why it's super important to be friends with those producers and editors, because they'll go somewhere else. Now, I don't know about the opportunity for yours, if it was pay for play or what the deal is for that I'm not really sure. But if you don't have contacts, you have LinkedIn, right? LinkedIn. You can go on at any point and find some people that are there, some producers. I loved LinkedIn as a producer. People would pitch me all the time there. I would move it from LinkedIn to email. And so I loved it. Other producers don't love it. It's always. It depends. You have to just try as much as you possibly can. Twitter finding who's writing about what, retweeting their stuff, liking something, kind of being on their radar. Before you start to pitch. It's always good to give before you ask for something. And then asking friends, people who have been in the media before, hey, do you have a contact that you can introduce me to? Or I have this pitch idea or what do you think of it? Those kind of things.

Thank you.

Let's do Jim, and then we'll go to Bill.

So you're an independent producer. So does that mean you could do pitches to any station that's out there?

So, yeah, I help experts who want to pitch any outlet.

So how do you get paid? How do you make money?

So experts pay me directly to do media. So several ways. One is to do media training. So if you're writing a book, you have something coming up, you have an outlet that is interested in you and wants to have you on camera, but you haven't done it before, and you're a little bit worried about what will I say, how will I say it? You hire me and I work you to make sure that you know exactly what you're gonna say, no matter what question they ask. And you'll answer their questions, but you'll also make sure that you get something in there that you want to get in there.

So if I wanted you to pitch me or something to a different station, do you do that?

So I'm not a publicist. I'm not a publicist. A publicist will take your pitches and then pitch you to all different outlets. Right. And so as a journalist, I've worked with many, many publicists. So if you're interested in working with a publicist who will do that, I can introduce you to many, many publicists that I've worked with. But what I do is really the story development. And so the idea behind what would a producer or editor really care about? Because I know, because I was the one booking thousands of people. So I know what made it in the yes pile and what made it in the no pile and how you're able to break through. Then the other thing I do is also video production and podcast production. So if people are interested in doing those kinds of things, looking at those shows and being able to say, hey, this is really compelling. You should do a show on this, this, this, and this. It's the same thing with pitching. You could take those same ideas and use them as pitches. It's the content is content. But coming up with the production part, as a producer, coming up with the stories, that's what I'm really great at.

Couple of thoughts. I'm a list guy. Oh, good. So I was like the Alex P. Keaton character who carried a briefcase to the fourth grade. But what I found over time was that you can become kind of a slave to your list, and you find yourself doing things just to cross them off the list and not necessarily the most important things. So I've kind of evolved my little strategy and put little asterisks by the Things that I'm going to do today and so forth. So I've walked through that. But when you're in a management position where you have lots of employees, again, always kind of driven by the list, I would have sort of my top 10 things I want to do tomorrow. So tomorrow shows up and I find I'm going to spend eight hours of my day doing something that I didn't know I was going to do. Because when you have 30 or more employees, somebody's going to have a crisis, somebody's having a meltdown. Either it's an employee, a customer, somebody's having a complete crisis. And so other than going in at 6 o' clock in the morning, which was sort of my solution, it's very difficult to process your list. I would do two things on my list out of 10, and I would cross off 20 things that I didn't that got added to my list during the day that I didn't know I was going to do in the morning. How do you prioritize and find a way to get the things done that are a priority and not become a slave to your list or to your email inbox or to things that it feels good to get them all done, but they may not have been the high priorities of your day?

Yeah, so the hardest part is that we write too many things on the list. And so that it starts there as having too much stuff on the list to begin with. You really have to narrow down, do I have the time and the resources to do these things? And if I don't, can I send them off to somebody else? Can I outsource this? Or maybe it doesn't really need to be on the list anymore. And that happens a lot of times, especially with entrepreneurs who want to do big things. You think, oh, this is something I really should do, I should do it. And it shows up and you feel guilty every day that you don't do it. And maybe it's one of those things that you need to move to a different list that's like a someday list or something like that. Also protecting time. This was much easier advice to give when I worked for Corporate America. Now as an entrepreneur, I feel like it's so hard to protect your time, but being able to protect little windows of your day where you can actually focus and get things done, if you can block out that time where you're able to tell your staff, like, this is my off limit time, that would be amazing. If you're able to utilize that time to get through some of the Bigger things.

It's most challenging in startups because there's a crisis a minute in a startup. I've started 14 companies from zero and taken them to different scales and different levels, took a half a dozen public. And so I've been through those cycles of you're conquering Mars today and we're going out of business tomorrow. I mean I've lived that kind of high beta, high frequency sine wave, I'll call it for most of my adult life. What I've done to sort of solve my problem is not put myself in a position where I have 30 people to manage.

Yes, well that's what I was going to say. Having people do their own.

My highest and best use is not managing the crisis of the day, it's actually doing more the strategic thinking, which is how I've sort of addressed my problem.

Right. Or is there criteria for the meeting? Right. Like you know, Gary Vaynerchuk does seven minute meetings. And so that really focuses people to really say what it is that they need in seven minutes. I mean I don't know how effective that really is, but it's a good way to focus, you know, focus people's attention to say hey we have one thing that we can talk about here. Go. And being able to really just hone in on that one issue instead of going down the rabbit hole of all these other things.

One quick more thing. Back in my sort of rocket scientist days I was working in this environment where we had 10,000 employees, very complicated multi billion dollar a year program and we had 20, I'll call it segment managers of which I was one. And we had a 20 minute meeting every day, system wide. This is a 247 operation with lots of very expensive assets roaming around in space. Every person had one minute to address their entire segment.

Yeah, I love that.

And it wasn't a problem solving meeting, it was hey, I've got this problem, who around can help us solve it? You just assign a team to solve it and come back at 3 o' clock and tell me what the answer is.

Yeah, it's a great approach.

No problem solving in the meeting, just problem identification.

Yeah.

And every person that was in that meeting had a complete view of a very complicated system every morning in 20 minutes.

You know the thing too. And again I'm always trying to get better at this because I have a co dependent need for validation that is based in all kinds of childhood related crap that was just beat into me. I think your not to do list is way more important than your to do list. And there's this quote, I've read it a bazillion times, just drilled into. And this is a little off subject because you're talking about lists for managing lots of people. It's just more of the mindset because I've hung around a lot of very, very wealthy and successful individuals and some that just don't really appear on the surface to be all that bright and some that are, but they're very wealthy. And there's others that seem to be incredibly intelligent, but they have a way of doing things that they just don't seem to make as much revenue. And the ones that seem to be the at getting shit done, their time management is by attitude, which is like, I don't need to do any of this shit, right? And like Arianna Huffington, one of the best things that she said out of like six hours of interviews with her is, you know, the best way to complete a project is to drop it. You know, it's true.

Not do it.

And so has anyone ever read the science fiction writer Robert Heinlein? You know, so he has a character, an immortal character, Lazarus Long. So one of the quotes in and this is a couple paragraphs, but let me read it to you. And it says, do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you. They are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self respect. But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you. And to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a foot pad than it is with a leech who wants just a few minutes of your time, please. This won't take long. Like your five minutes, right? Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100% of your time and squawk for more. So learn to say no and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty or. Or do your own work. And certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you. This rule may not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend or even a stranger, but let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it's Expected of you. And I think the trap that we fall into all the time is I need to do this, I should do this, I should do that. And just being able to get. And I am naturally, I want to be nice to everyone. I don't want to be disliked. I don't want to be known as an asshole. And the problem is that gets me in a lot of traps. I find myself giving attention to people that have not earned. It won't do anything for me. And the Zig Ziglar line, which I lived by for many years, is, you can have anything in life you want as long as you help enough other people get what they want. Well, there's a lot of people. You can help them get what they want, and they will not do fucking anything for you. Except that's so true. So the question is, how do you actually do that? Operate that way, but do it intelligently. Do it to where people don't abuse you. Because I personally think, be nice to the people you meet on the way up. They're the same people you meet on the way down. I think just being a good, pleasant human being is just a great operating system. But at the same time, you have got to be protective, you know? And today, like, people can say, you remember back in. Before the Internet existed, like, the average American watches 5 hours of television a day. And you're like, if you want to get more done, you know, watch less television. Well, because the Internet, like, I mean, I think the average teenager, where they've, like, looked at studies, spends 11 hours a day interacting with a screen.

Wow.

You know, I mean, like, people are like, well, this person's consuming all of my time. What's consuming your time is you're spending two hours a day on fucking Facebook.

Yeah, right, right. You know that, like, you can do all pictures.

Right, Exactly. So, you know, so the point is, a lot of people get in the habit of blaming others for taking up all their time when you got to look at your own rituals in your own life.

Well, and it also makes you feel important, Right. When people need you.

Totally.

And they want to talk to you. And, you know, so it's a little bit hard to give up that. Oh, that importance of, I'm the one they need. I'm the only one who can fix this problem.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Kevin, so I just wanted to mention that what you said about the producer was really dead on, because when I was shooting Shark Tank, ABC network aired Shark Tank, and they also aired the View. And my publicist, who was. I was paying $7,500 a month to said, oh, we're going to see if we can get you on the View to cross promote the shows, you know, from the View on abc, et cetera. And so they said, kevin's available. And they're like, okay, great, we'll get back to you. But the producer being available is not what they want to hear. Right. So we ended up changing publicist and the new publicist created a story. And the story was because I was in the as seen on TV business, they said, Kevin can come on, it's spring cleaning time. He can do five cleaning hacks that will revolve around some of the products that I had. But he'll build the stations, he'll bring in the grill because the producers, they have to go get all that, right. They got to build the props and all that. So we wrote a five minute script for literally a five minute segment. And with all of the stations already delineated and we said, we'll buy these props, build these props and execute this five minute segment. Now, from the producer's mind, they're like, wow, great, I just got five minutes done for tomorrow. Totally, whatever show, right. So they actually said, when can you be here? And so at the end, we gave video links away for free and we gave the products, all of them, away to everyone in the audience also, which was just sort of a bonus, but I didn't have to pay for the time. And it was a five minute segment and we got like 250,000 hits off that. So. Yeah, but it was, we worked with the producer to take the pressure off the producer to have to really do anything.

Yeah, make a difference.

Build 5 minutes and build all the, all the props. And I was on another eight or ten times after that because they liked how the whole thing went and you.

Knew what they, what they wanted. Right. They wanted that kind of segment and so you gave that to them, solving.

Problems for their viewers. Also, it wasn't just, I didn't say, I just want to come forward, promote.

My five for sure.

But you know, we had a grill cleaner because, hey, you're springtime, you gotta get that grill clean before you throw the steaks on there. So, you know, we had a steamed grill cleaner and oh, wow, that's pretty cool. Gave one to everybody in the audience too. So we solved problems and we solved the consumer, the viewer's problem, but we also solved the producer's problem of having to fill five minutes of content.

Smart.

There's a website book that was written just the Title alone is just one of my favorites, which is. Anyone ever read the book don't make me Think? No, don't make Me Think. So that's such a great line as it applies to everything. People are like, well, how many of you have ever done any affiliate promotions? Okay, so people show up to you with no pre written stuff, no data, no conversions, and they want you to solve their marketing problem. And the problem is it's not like, hey, let's partner together. It's like, hey, you figure out how to figure shit out that I don't know how to figure out, right? And the thing is, but when someone shows up and they've done everything for you, it's written, they've got data to support it, they've got, you know, where you don't have to think, those are the people that you will naturally probably do business with as long as there's alignment. And one of the things is if you can just show up with anyone, not just like a producer, any media person, to where they don't have to think, you have just made their life easier. Because all day long one of the biggest things that entrepreneurs have to protect is their attention. And anyone that comes to you and they're asking you disguised as a favor to you, where they want you to do the work. How many of you ever hired someone to do work for you? And that person, just by the way they operate, you end up doing more work as a result of hiring that person. Right? So it's like I hired you to help me, wait a minute. And now I'm doing work.

Right, Exactly.

So the way to interact and do relationships is don't make people think, like anticipate. I read a book called the Butler Speaks. And it's about, it's like a guy who runs the only butler school in North America, which is in Toronto. And he wrote a book called the Butler Speaks. And when they're training butlers, he talks about anticipation. And like some people have it and other people don't. They just anticipate what someone needs before they even verbalize that they need it. And like if you're around the butler, like if you've ever gone to dinner and you're in a private meeting, there are some waiters or waitresses that, or some servers that are just noisy and they like. And you're like, you're worried about. And other people, they're like invisible. They just so good on the way they do it. And that's how you want your relationships to be. You want it to be Frictionless. You want it to show up so that people are like, wow, my life is so much easier to. Because this person's in it. And if you operate that way and you do it one time, like what Kevin was saying, you do it one time, they're gonna keep using you over and over and over again. Cause you make your life easier. And so those are the people that I tend to resonate with, that I tend to hire over and over again and that sort of thing. So anyway, I'm kind of rambling. Let's do this as a wrap up. You are available for hire?

I am.

Which is good. So where should people go to get your programs and how do they work with you?

Okay, well, from a marketing standpoint, I should probably have just my name.com, but I don't have that right now.

I think the jerky boys took it like Frank Rizzo or something.

Yeah, some woman in Brazil has that website. I've been trying to get it back from her. But anyway, so I do have two websites, so bear with me. So listproducer.com is the website for my productivity stuff. List making. I mean, you can just email me. Paulaistproducer.com is probably the best way to do it. And then the course is lights, camera experiment. Lightscert Co.

Which is co. Lightscameraexpert co. Awesome.

Anything.

I should have asked you that. I did not.

I don't think so. You were pretty good. I was impressed with your interviewing skills. So thank you.

Well, thank you. Did you guys learn a lot?

Yes.

Okay. Did you have a final burning thing? Go ahead, just do a comment and then we'll wrap.

I feel funny saying it because I was gonna say I've done a lot of local network tv, but right after a guy says he was on Shark Tank in the View like a loser. Didn't even bring it up.

Well, no, after. So this high status individual. Kevin, what sort of loser comment do you think?

A lot of local network tv, right. Between the weather and the whatever. But a couple of points that you said are things that I was taking from my experience, which rang true, but also what we can take from that to other opportunities. Because a lot of people aren't going to be on network TV because it's not your audience or what you're trying.

To do and not initially. You can't start there.

Right.

Everybody has to start local news and then work your way up. I very rarely would book people who hadn't been on TV before.

Yeah, what I mean is there may be people in this group that would never want to do local TV because their audience is different or where they would present is different. But what I learned a few things from what you said. Like when I started to write my book, Tucker Mac's first thing he said to me is, why are you writing your book? So whether it's being on local TV or being in front of a certain conference or a certain group, asking yourself, why am I doing that? What is the outcome that I seek? The second question is, who's my audience and what do they really want? It's easy to forget that. But to say, what is the audience? How can I add value to the audience? Is really a critical step. And then the third thing that I learned from being on local TV is know the show and know the people who are delivering the show. Because if you can bring up something interesting that they don't know about one of the anchors or bring up something that just happened on the segment before that's funny and ties it back in, it becomes much more interesting. So in this case, if you do a podcast or you speak to a conference, knowing a conference, for example, what's important to that group, funny things that have happened earlier in the day, or interesting things or powerful stories that were told or about the person running the conference, and you can weave that in, and Joe does a really good job when he gets interviewed or interviews other people doing that, then it becomes much more interesting, compelling and powerful.

Yeah, good points. Great.

Awesome. So did you learn a few things from Paula? Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much.

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