Supercharge Your Business and Health with Harry Massey - I Love Marketing Episode #300

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish and this is the I love marketing podcast.

In this episode you'll discover how to supercharge your business and health with GeniusX and Genius Network member Harry Massey. Harry is the co founder of NES Health and co creator of the world's.

First practical system for reading your body.

Field and then offering solutions to optimize it, giving you the ability to have more energy, vitality and optimal health.

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Visit ilovemarketing.com.

That'S ilovemarketing.com 300 hello, this.

Is Joe Polish and I'm here with my friend Harry Massey. How are you?

I'm great, Joe, how are you?

I'm doing awesome. So we're here, the doors are open, there's birds chirping. We're at the Sanctuary Resort in a really cool room here. And we both just got done with our buddy Michael Fishman's Consumer Health Summit and there was a bunch of health experts and doctors and New York Times bestselling authors. And you certainly in the category of a person that is very big in the health field. So why don't you give your version of who the heck is Hairy Massey? What's your company? What do you do? And let's talk about some good business solutions and methodologies and create some really inspiring stuff for all the listeners today.

Perfect. Well, basically my name's Harry Massey and I started a company called Nest self 14 years ago, Nest, NES, NES Health, basically because I had chronic fatigue syndrome and was completely bedridden for about eight years. And out of that I was always trying to go and visit doctors, but I would basically have to persuade my parents to drive me to different practitioners. But that was always quite an effort to try and persuade them to do that. So I had this bit of a crazy idea at the time which was to create a home wellness. And what I mean by that is basically something that you could just put your hand on. It would tell you exactly what was going on with your body and then would give you the information and educate you on how to get better. But I didn't have a clue how to do that at the time. And I basically got introduced to some scientists and basically put together a number of ideas and technology and ended up creating this system which looking back seems completely impossible because I didn't have any money and I didn't have any. Well, I didn't have any energy either. And long story short, we ended up being able to make this system which ended up pioneering a new field that we call biogetic medicine, which is basically looking at the study of energy in living systems where we're able to both detect and correct the energy in living systems. Yeah. And here we are today, 14 years later, with a few thousand practitioners who treat hundreds of thousands of clients per year and help lots of people get their health back.

Wow, that's fascinating. So a couple of things I want to touch on with what you talked about there. For one, you were completely. Your body was physically, I don't know, shot is the right word, but you were pretty incapacitated physically. You were bedridden for a period of time.

Yeah, when I was 21, I was just graduated from university and I actually went off MO and caught some virus at the time and basically from that ended up really ill with loads of glandular problems. And I was also a bit of a hedonistic type party animal at the time. So I took too many drugs and all that type of stuff and that mixed in with this viral thing. And also she also came out as being gay to my parents and sort of like a whole emotional drunk, viral type type mix which was enough to trigger off this illness which basically lasted for years. But because I was so. I was very, very strong minded and because I had such strong willpower I thought I could just cure it through like doing more exercise. So I went out to the, went out to the French Alps which I come from Europe and just thought I could climb and mountaineer my way out of sickness.

Right.

But yeah, unfortunately that did the absolute opposite and I ended up in this position where I ended up actually just totally stuck in a tent for about a week because I didn't have the energy to get out of the tent. All I had was some water and dried bananas and just ate dried bananas and water for an entire week. For an entire week. I was slightly exaggerating. I think I went out and had a pee and stuff like that. Just go out and just get back in the tent because I was so exhausted. Then after about a week I managed to drive myself back to England. Literally just pulling the car over about every 45 minutes for a rest and I'd get back on the motorway and I can't remember, it took me about two, three days to get to get back to England and that was really the beginning of a multi year process of being bedridden.

Now did you, I mean like, I'll digress here a little bit because it's just A sort of, I mean, I've heard some of your story but you're filling in a lot of details that I've never known before. So when you're driving like for two or three days, I mean, are you asking for help or are you just trying to.

I was 21 and I was quite headstrong and yeah, I just wasn't that type of person to ask, to ask for help. I was going to get back. I mean, yeah, probably I should have rang up my parents and said, can you fly out and drive the car back? But yeah, that wasn't in my brain state for.

Wow, interesting. Yeah, the way people do it. Well, you know, with all the work I'm doing on addiction, you know, I hear stuff like this. I'm thinking, okay, there was some sort of trauma with this individual repressed emotions which, you know, coupled with doing drugs, partying, escapism, you know, being gay, hiding that having some shame or whatever is associated with it coming out, you know, trying to. So you know, as you know, there's so much of an emotional element to people's behavior, to people's physical state, mental state, spiritual state, sickness, illness, there's so much of that body pain, whatever. Okay, so you are a byproduct of a person that had a lot of fucked up stuff happening in your life, either self induced or as a response to things that happened to you and you figured out how to fix it and you managed to figure out how to turn this into a business that now helps other people. So of course for people listening, I think so many business owners that I know, especially the ones that are successful, a lot of wounded healers, there's a lot of people that had to solve a giant problem for themselves.

In some cases, unless you've been to the very bottom, you don't have the motivational drive to, to work out the solution. And obviously I was. Well, I mean I was. So I was completely stuck at home, back under my parents, which obviously I managed because I went to public. Public schools probably means a different thing in America that basically means boarding school. I went to boarding school from the age of seven. So I was basically away from my parents from the age of seven. And then yeah, to end up back under your parents roof those seven or eight years, obviously I had a massive drive to get back out and to cure. Well, basically to cure myself. And the only way I could work out how to do that as I just thought if you could make a system and help other people then hopefully that would help me in the process. And that's basically exactly what happened.

That's the same thing I'm doing with artists for addicts and Genius recovery and all the stuff as it relates to the stuff I'm doing in the field of addiction recovery. Best way to, I think help yourself is to help others. As long as it's not a front. Because what happens a lot of times is, you know, we have discussions during the last couple days. There's a lot of people dispensing health advice that aren't very healthy. There's a lot of people that dispense a lot of advice that they themselves don't follow. So when you are a convert of a system that actually works and you not only can offer that.

Yeah, it sort of has to happen in parallel. I mean, I think sometimes it, you know, one, one can actually come, come ahead of the other because. Absolutely, you know, I had the idea of creating a home wellness system, but I was still, I was still really sick and I ended up, ended up being healed along the way. I ended up. So I met this scientist who started giving me the information that we needed to get myself better. And then see, we turn that into a system and it was over about like a two year, a two year period that we, that we ended up completing that system. But you know, I was still getting myself better. So yeah, I don't, I don't think that's necessarily that, that bad if people are preaching good stuff as long as they're, as long as they're on that journey of going towards that journey. But, but sure, yeah, if they're doing everything wrong and preaching something else, that's probably not too good.

Oh, well, not like. Oh, to cover that. I mean, let's talk about that too. Because along the way as you're, I mean there are, you know, to use a sports analogy, you're going to play hurt a lot of the times. You know, you're not going to be perfect and then you have to be perfect before you can go out and start dispensing advice. I mean, I'm a huge admirer of 12 step programs and I believe that relapse in addiction is just part of a lot of recovery. I mean, there is no perfect thing. That's why they have the saying, you know, progress, not perfection. So by no means am I suggesting that people are not allowed to go out and try to help and create things and stuff if they're in a flawed state. Because I'm in a perpetual flawed state. I mean, there's a million things that I Do better. What I do believe, though, is that if you're going to be on the journey and you're going to say, do this, do this, do this, either be very vulnerable and very open about, you're still working on it. Don't present yourself as one thing, because I actually think that prevents you from. Because I can only look at it from my frame of reference. But I believe you're as sick as your secrets. And one of the reasons I go out and talk about some of the things so openly that I talk about is I don't ever want my ego to actually think I have arrived or I am this so special that I am now because, you know, to use my buddy Dean Jackson's, you know, you're being successful. When I don't think you've arrived at success. Success is you're doing certain things. And if I started smoking crack tomorrow, any notion that I have of being successful would be. Would be evaporated in like, two seconds the moment I, you know, start doing drugs, as an example. So it's. Yeah. For people listening, I agree. I think wherever you're at, if you feel hurt, if you feel broken, if you feel flawed, but there's a vision, there's a desire, there's something in you that says, you know, because you saw it before it happened. Every vision, every business, every great thing that's ever been accomplished in the world, every destructive thing, someone envisioned that in advance and then lived out making it happen, you know, on purpose or accidentally, you know, and it's actually a combination of both. So you were with all of these struggles, though, but that became your gift later here in your life, because had you not gone through all that pain and all that shit, there's no way in hell you would have built a business. You've built the documentaries and films that you've done, the books that have been created out of the work that you've done. I even asked you before we started recording, because I want to talk about some of this stuff. I said, harry, what are three things that you're really good at? And you said, innovation. You described as creating new stuff using unknown science with practical solutions and concepts, kind of like blue sky innovation. The other thing you said is you're really good with people. And the other thing was films. You do films. And within that, there's the business and then there's the marketing and getting it out to the world. And the people listening to this podcast would be very interested in all of those things.

I know it'd be quite interesting to Talk about, you know, 100K. There was this great debate between innovation and marketing. And I mean, I was thinking about that after as well. I was thinking they're in a way really the same thing.

I think they are.

Yeah. Good. Yeah, that's what I thought. Because like marketing, you're basically completely tuning into all of your customers. And it's the same within innovation. If you're inventing something new, I mean, you're basically doing it to be something that's absolutely amazing for your customers. And that, that's really the same thing as good marketing.

If you ask 100 people what marketing is and you could ask just people that have no training, have never read a marketing book in their life, or you ask 100 people that are considered world class marketers. People think of marketing sometimes as like an industry, like the marketing industry. And maybe there's an advertising industry because that's more specific. Advertising is a part of marketing. But really I think it's so expansive that to call it an industry is kind of like the exercise industry. Maybe you call it the fitness industry because exercise could be doing intense housework throughout the day or someone else's concept of exercise could be doing yoga or hiking a mountain, or going to a gym or doing a spin class. There's a million different things that you could call exercise, just like there are a million different things you can call marketing. If you ask someone what is marketing? You're going to get 100 different definitions now from our world, the entrepreneurial world, the ones that use marketing. Whereas a lot of consumers may think marketing is used on them, although everybody uses marketing. Because I think of marketing as the quickest path to the sale. I think of marketing as storytelling. I think of marketing as selling in advance so that by the time you actually have to present something, you've already done a lot of things that would position. I always go back to the Peter Drucker quote though. Peter Drucker said the primary purpose of business is to create and keep customers. Marketing and innovation produce results, all other business functions or cost. And I've really thought about that definition for hours. You know, it's like, okay, so primary purpose of business is to create and keep customers. You create them by enrolling them. Having something so good people can't help talk about it.

Or maybe a better primary thing is, I mean, well, it's true, is to really give value out to the world.

Yeah, well, I mean, of course. So like, you know, I think the only way you're going to keep customers unless you, well, possibly because if you sell an addictive product like drugs or alcohol and someone is relying on it because they're hooked.

Snapchat.

Yeah. Digital opiates. I just registered the URL digitalopiates.com after I heard Tim talk about it yesterday. But there's a lot of digital opiates out there. The thing is, you can hook people and keep people coming back in destructive ways. You can sell a product that isn't very good for people. However, marketing is just a thing. The character of the person is what determines what you do with it. I always say, you send an asshole to an empowerment seminar, you're going to have an empowered asshole. You send a really, you know, good person, but they may have fears or insecurities or challenges, but they genuinely want to do good in the world, and you put them into a place where you're just going to build up more of or help release the things that prevent them from being who they could become, then all the better. I mean, a lot of ways I think, how do I know who the hell is listening to this podcast? Could be a really good person who just needs to know some business strategy or some life strategy or some fitness strategy, and they hear some concept, they apply it in their own way. And someone could be some evil, scheming, narcissistic, psychopathic crazy person, but I doubt they would be attracted to my podcast because we talk so much about the ethical use of marketing and creating value and doing good stuff in the world. The best thing is take who you already are and increase your consciousness, business with it. But, yeah, I think you create customers by good marketing and you keep them by just doing good stuff, giving them value. Because I don't continue to do business with people that don't create value for me. I mean, they may get me once, but in order for me to keep giving my business and my money to an organization. And by the way, if people listening to this, if you hear background noise, they're. We literally have the doors open. So just disregard that for the fact that I don't care enough about putting us in a recording studio right now because I'm a bad person. You could really take creating and keeping customers, and there's huge lessons in that. He says marketing and innovation produce results. All other business functions are cost. Now, there are some sides where I think you look at your business like, you know, we got to make money here because if. If you don't bring any gas to the, you know, to the campfire or whatever, you know, there ain't no flames so in order to bring revenue, businesses.

Have different stages sometimes. I mean, you know, like in the first few years you just, I mean you, I mean you do have to do what you have to do to bring the money in and yeah, maybe later on you can fall a bit more flexibility. And I mean as an example of that, like when I, like when I was initially getting going, I mean I pre sold like I pre sold this device that we hadn't actually made to a whole lot of practitioners in Australia. I think it took us three or four months to deliver it and it was a few thousand dollars a short and well, to describe it, it's like this white box. I bought all these buttons from Marks and Spencer's, which is a clothes store in England. And then we would glue in these buttons and you would basically put your hands and then you put the hand on the buttons. And then there was this first version of software that was really, really buggy and crashed and didn't work. So then we delivered it and obviously we had loads of complaints because it didn't work properly. But over a few months that, that all that all got resolved. But if we hadn't done that, we wouldn't have had a, you know, we wouldn't have had any money because I was 27. 27, you know, base. Basically, basically no money to go and hire any staff. So we sort of had to do, you know, we basically had to pre sell it to get some money so I could hire one, one secretary, make the stuff ourselves. And then what we now call pharmaceuticals, which for the benefit the recording is basically just think of them as remedies or supplements. And then we are manufacturing all these ourselves and using matrix printers to label everything. And I was boiling up all the herbs and water and stuff on the stove and bottling it. And it was a total, I don't know what you want to call it, but total gorilla business tactics, I guess.

Yeah, well, I mean in anyone that thinks that any company that exists today didn't have that stage is delirious, you know, because that's how almost everything is created. I mean, I always think it's kind of funny that God knows how many years ago this was or centuries or whatever. You know, two guys were sitting around saying, let's create Harvard. You know, I mean, Harvard didn't just like, you know, show up and everything was, you know, Harvard. I mean, could you imagine the very first Harvard class, you know, trying to bundle it all together that like trying to figure out how to make anything work. The first one that Ever manufactured and bottled beer.

But, you know, it's sort of an interesting thing. So, I mean, you, I mean, I mean, like with your business, you never had investors at the beginning and you know, I never had investors Right. Either. And you know, I think you, you can do stuff with money and probably like multiply a lot of mistakes or you can, you can just do stuff of your own, you know, with your own brain power and labor and avoid all of that. And I, yeah, I wish there was a bit more of that because so many startups and founders, like, they think they have to go and get the, get the money to start it up and then 8 out of 10 of them fail because they get all this, you know, money poured in and then the VCs pull out when they fail and then it's game over. But if they never had, I always think, like, if they never had any money in this in the first place, probably more of them would be around, I think, because they would have learned lessons in a different way.

I think it's worth highlighting that because I think it's a big point. And if there's anything that I would like to say that I very much agree with that statement and going that route is what you just said. My buddy Dave Keckage, one of his credos, says rely more on wit and talent and less on money. Especially when you're starting out. Because when you're, when you have to figure out how to produce a result or make a sale to someone. And I think the number one job of the entrepreneur is go out and get a check. And now there's a lot behind that. When I say get it, get a.

Product and work out how to sell the product. I mean, that's the two things. And if you can't do either of those, then why, yeah, then you don't need any, you don't need any money because you can't scale, like, you can't scale anything until you've worked those two things out. And you don't need money to work those two things out. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, so, so, yeah, like going out and getting a, getting a chance. The neighbor, by the way. So I'm going to keep pointing that out to people, the background noise, just so it really emphasizes that, you know, you have to listen for birds here. Yeah. So the thing with going and getting a check, when I say that, the caveat of course, being that's not robbing people, that's not just going out and getting a check. Like when I was a dead broke carpet cleaner, Even then I was so conscientious that everyone was happy that they would want to refer me. My whole thing is like, if I have someone give me money and I don't create value for those people and I did my part. Granted, if you own a gym and you have a world class gym and someone signs up for your gym and they don't go work out, but you provided the place for them, I mean, it's not your fault they're not exercising. I mean, you have done your job by selling them a membership to come and use your gym. Now if they choose not to do that, I mean, I don't think they can get mad at the gym. Now if the gym wants to. If someone, if they sign someone up on a monthly membership and the person breaks their leg and can't work out and the gym's like, oh, you signed a contract and you can't get out of this. I think the gym is an asshole. I mean, they should, you know, there are certain things that you, you can, can do. But the thing is, if, if I sell something to somebody and I deliver a product or service and it doesn't deliver for them, if I, in the way, if they interact with it in the right way, then you know, I don't want their money. I mean, it's, you know, I, I don't want any, I don't want anyone.

These days it's pretty easy to, to figure that out because I mean, you can, you can put something out there, you can get such immediate feedback through, through social media, I mean, or any, or even just phoning up customers. I mean, you, you only really have to tune into what your customers are saying to improve it and you're on your way. Exactly, exactly.

So the point is for the young entrepreneurs or for the startups or for the people that have been doing this a long time, but they're thinking, oh, I, you know, I'm going to have a successor, but I got to go out and raise a lot of money. You got to, you got to realize when you start getting other people's cash, you don't really own your company. Someone else owns your company and if, and they want their money back, you know, I mean, even we had a, you know, guy that gave a talk that was, you know, one of the top VC firms in Silicon Valley. And you know, they are giving people money because they want these people to sell their companies because that's how they get their money back, is when someone sells, when they have an exit. So if you are really into, if.

You want to build a lifestyle business. Don't, you know, don't, don't go and get money.

Exactly, exactly. And again though, you know, there are people that have become enormously rich that have scaled and built gigantic companies that never could have happened had they not went and got investment money. But I believe the failure rate for.

The ones that went that royal.

Yeah, and so I agree with you. I mean I think if you can learn how to make money yourself and be self sufficient and then you can really evaluate and look, should I bring in money?

That's why I think like in the early stages figure. Yeah, just try and figure out those two things like the product and how to, and how to sell it and then surely later on if it's right, you might want to bring in money to scale it.

Right, right. So let's go into some of the things then. So you know, here you were, you were having lots of health challenges, you ended up turning this into a business. And how would you, let's describe what your business really does and how it, what's the value that it delivers for people. Since you're into blue sky innovation, you know, blue ocean, you know, however you want to describe it. I would love to have you describe what that even means for people that you know, either don't quite know or understand the concept of doing something brand new that no one's ever done before. But you had mentioned that you fuse, you know, unknown or kind of wild science with practical solutions and concepts. So that's your.

Yeah, sure. Well, yeah, I'll give it some context within the, I guess within the medical world. Like if you look over the last hundred and one hundred twenty odd years, we originally had these sort of ideas of, I think it's like the ether and homeopathy. Then we basically got a very strong chemical lobby came in which ended up turning into the pharmaceutical industry where everything in medicine for that last hundred plus years has been all about biochemistry which has turned into drugs and then that's even applied across to the integrative and functional medicine world in terms of supplements and things like that. Whereas no one has ever really looked at the physics of biology. In other words, in like if you go to your classical university you have the physics department, the chemistry department and the biology department. Yet for some unknown reason those three departments never ever talk, you know, the chemist as Karen doing chemists, that biologists just look under their microscope and the physicists do all this far out physics stuff. Yes. Actually the real truth, if you're looking at the human body Is this. Well, it's basically a completely. It's an intersection of all three of both the physics, biochemistry and the biology. What we've done as a company is basically try and look at the physics of biology and say, well, you know, are there a whole load of things that are unexplained that biochemistry can't do very well, which might be better explained in physics? And by doing that, we basically ended up coming up with this concept that we call human body field, which isn't necessarily completely originated by us because it's existed for thousands of years in Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine. However, it hasn't been particularly scientifically looked at. And then even in medicine we have something like an MRI machine, which stands for magnetic resonance imaging, which is actually using physics principles. And you have like EKGs that go on your heart or ECGs that go on your brain. All of these are picking up fields, yet medicine just looks at them in a very isolated way. They're not saying, well, actually the body is producing this overall field, perhaps it can give us more information about what's going on. But also the exact polar opposite. Well, maybe actually, if you, maybe actually if we interact with those fields, it might have an effect on the biochemistry, on your physiology in turn. So basically we looked at that concept and worked out a way where we could both detect and correct the overall energy field of your body. That's blue sky thinking, because you've got a very conventional paradigm as biochemistry. And trying to get the biochemists and even in functional medicine, supplement companies, drug companies, trying to get people who are so locked into biochemistry to think about physics. It can be a bit tricky for sure.

Okay, so how many people actually think what you're doing is bullshit?

How many people in the world?

Well, no, I mean, I guess you're.

Not going to send me.

But what I mean is like people that are in these other industries, to.

Be more specific, I. Well, I've been doing it for like four, for 14 years. And so when we first started, it was actually incredibly hard. Like we, you know, we invite a load of people and we'd have like all these doctors, like just ask us a gazillion questions and be really skeptical. So it's a really unknown idea. And then I'd say about five or six years in, I was just like, shit, you know, how on earth do we get across this concept, the body field, which is why we got into filmmaking. So we thought if we can explain these ideas through a film. We basically went and interviewed some of the top biophysicists and some of the scientists, along with five people had completely incurable diseases. So there's one with cerebral palsy, fibromyalgia, some of some brain tumors, some of the kidney cancer. And then we basically film them being healed using these methodologies, then interviewed these scientists to help explain, if you like this new science of healing, of how that can be possible. That film came out eight or nine years ago now.

What film was that?

Sorry, that was called the Living Matrix, which is on itunes or the Living Matrix. And yeah, that, that ended up being the best selling health documentary for about two or three years. And it's still, still going pretty well now. And I don't, I don't know if it's necessarily since then, but that's, that's definitely had a, had a pretty good influence. And now, now in the last two years. Yeah, I mean if you talk to people in the supplement world or integrated functional medicine community. Well, we were just here the last, the last two days and you know, these are all like. Yeah, these are all doctors, general doctors and experts, generally experts in nutrition, diet, supplements. They're not, they're not experts in, in our field. Yeah. I mean you probably saw like that was like everyone's wanting scans and it's like super interested and that, that's completely different to 10 years ago. So yeah, I'd say, yeah, it definitely started off as quite skeptical and now, now say. Yeah, I mean now society is definitely pretty different.

Right. And getting much more informed and misinformed at the same time. I mean, I think there's a lot of that. I mean, I think with the access we have to knowledge through certainly, you know, the Internet and technology and just the sheer amount of things that are being discovered and being learned, there's incredible amounts of information and there's incredible amounts of misinformation. Now we had a lot of the world's leading doctors. I mean even the guy who invented functional medicine is credit with it was speaking here and a lot of my buddies.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you noticed I wanted to talk to him about that, but he was talking about, he was talking about physics and ideas like the, like the holograms and he was like mentioning like Max Planck and. Yes. I mean. Yeah, I mean I could tell like his, his brain goes into all the physics stuff.

Yeah, yeah, well. And of course I was bringing up addiction, which is a whole nother realm which I think is part of all of this, but it's not quite getting integrated. So My question to you is. So there's a. There was like many quotes of food is medicine as an example. How do you think about a term like that? Food is medicine? Because what would you call medicine?

Well, I mean, medicine is multiple things, right? You know, food, food. Food is an aspect of it. But I don't like may. Yeah, I mean, I mean, from my point, from my point of view, or from, from a physics point of view, everything in everything in reality is really energy or as an energy exchange. And you know what, that might sound a little, a little bit peculiar, but I can go back. Well, if I go back to Einstein, the most basic part of reality is E equals MC squared, which basically stands for energy equals mass times the speed of light. So I mean, what Einstein is saying in that is basically matter is equivalent to energy. So fundamentally, absolutely everything is energy. Then if you look at your body and how it's interacting with the environment, everything you're doing, if you're breathing oxygen in or out, that's an exchange of energy. If you're eating, you're taking energy from the food and it's going into your body and shitting and pissing out. That's not so polite. And we're getting energy from light during the day, and then at night we're being recharged with Earth's magnetic fields. When you're exercising, you're exchanging energy. So all of these things in the bioenergetic sort of point of view are all exchanges of energy. And diet, food as medicine is one component, but it's absolutely not the only one. And to the addiction side, the mind stuff of how you're interacting with all of these, with everyone around you and what they're thinking, what you're thinking is a huge exchange of energy as well. So all of these different components of energy affect you. And I think it's slightly unfortunate that I say things are changing is we're so, so focused on just food. And it is, it is an important component. I mean, I eat super healthily myself, but it's only, I don't know, I'd say it's only a fifth or sixth of the equation. And there are all these other elements, like if you eat the perfect diet. And we were actually just talking about a friend who's in an apartment block and he, like, they moved. His diet was always the same. He moved to Los Angeles for three years and now he's got, you know, really sick and he's in one of these huge apartment buildings and like surrounded by wi fi, etcetera. And I can't guarantee it, but I'd be fairly sure if he moved outside, you know, outside of that environment to somewhere really nurturing perhaps, you know, around trees and water, you know, wherever it is. Probably, probably reflourish. Right. But there was no change in the diet, so, yeah, it's. Yeah, food is essential, but it's just not the only component.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So because I, you know, you know me, I mean, this is. I can always geek out on all of this stuff, but I'm going to do my best to keep a lot of this in the, in the business realm too, of how you actually, you have your business that does what it does and then there's how you built it, how you've grown it, how you market it, how you communicate, how you interact with. With people. And I. So I want to get into some of that. What I, what I will say to the listeners is that at the. Of this, I'll just ask you some recommendations on. For people that want to dwell into this. Tell them what to watch, what to read. So let's talk about films. I mean, you use films as a communication and educational tool, as a marketing tool. How do you think about films? How do you do them, who should do them, who should not do them? That sort of stuff. I'm even in one of your latest films, which is called Supercharged, and you actually have me doing yoga and not have me. I mean, these are things that I do and you just happen to film me meditating and doing, I think, capture me doing float pods and a lot of crazy stuff. Did we get me doing chirotherapy and chirotherapy.

You did the float forward? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, because I do a lot of stuff. I can't remember all the different things we capture right at this moment. You think I would.

I mean, I mean, for me, like, films are just this great. They're a great vehicle for two. For two things. One, you know, one, one for telling a story and then the, the other for explain, you know, just trying to explain an idea. So obviously. Well, that original film, the Living Matrix, was trying to explain this idea that the body has a body. Body field in. In supercharged. It's like just exactly as what we just explained. It's like people are totally obsessed with food. They don't realize about these other sources of energy. So I was like, well, how do we get that idea across? Well, if we make a film about that, then people will have a broader perspective on how do we go about it. One, through stories so we're demonstrating how Joe does that in his life and then two, we weave it with experts who actually explain all the geeky stuff and hopefully weave those together in a good enough way that people have a really enjoyable experience and, and spread it. I mean that's. I guess that's the why, like how, how you go about it. I mean I've made free films. I've had some. I've had some interesting experiences. So yeah, maybe I'll describe all three. Really. Yeah, the way, the way to go about it. The first one. The first one is probably the most. Well actually the last. The last one that we haven't seen how successful or VX it will be. Hugely successful. But the, but the, yeah, the first one. First one we basically teamed up with this. I teamed up with someone called Greg Becker who basically had. He had his own production company. So like he was a fantastic editor and camera guy and you know, just a great, A great partner to be with. And yeah, we just, we just did that. 50. 50. We didn't have to put so, so much money in. I think it costs. I think we put in about 50. Yeah, it was 50 grand each and then that was it. And it. And it. Luckily it worked. It worked out of the gate. We actually didn't do much marketing because it was a good film that just spread. So lucky us. The second one was a bit of a. Bit of a moonshot and that was the film where we filmed like Richard Branson, Jean Fonda, Jure, like Darwin, Jack Canfield, Greg Brayden, Barbara Oxal, the whole, whole bunch of sort of, you know, massive names and it was, and it was a high. It was actually a higher quality production. But Greg unfortunately got. Got divorced that, that year so we, we couldn't make it together so. Because he wasn't in the place to, to make it. So like I hired, you know, the, like I just hired a production company and all this stuff and I just. It just cost me a shit ton of money. Like a real ton of money. And it was the same period like we were moving to America. Our business partner died. I had some Dutch people running our company and sort of a whole collection of things that sort of. Yeah, the money went out the window, should we say, and that was the wrong way to do it. And then this time, you know, having. And then actually the end result of that is we ended up taking over the production and sorting it all out and going back to basics and doing ourselves anyway. So basically waste a ton of money on production companies and took it over anyway, so the, I mean, the lot, the last one, obviously we didn't do that. We just. We did it all. Well, all you really need is a really good camera person and really good editor and be damn sure you know what the hell you're setting out to make. I mean, ultimately it's holding. You've got to have that concept and that vision down of what you're trying to make. You don't have to have all the details down because that sort of all gets worked out in the edit. But you end up printing out tons of transcripts. It's helpful to have someone just go through the transcripts for you, just to delete all the rubbish and ums and everything that isn't very useful. And yeah, someone can then just condense that, give you all the good stuff. And it doesn't take too long to piece it together. But I mean, it's, you know, it is hard work. I won't, I won't deny it is hard work.

Well, no, I mean, it's kind of funny because I'm sitting here listening to you explain this. It's like when people have gone through it, you know, there's like, there's probably someone that's, that's listening to this right now. How the hell am I going to piece together a documentary film it go through. I mean, there's so many moving parts. But again, hey, isn't that what entrepreneurs do?

You know? But I'd say, yeah, the two essential things would just like spend your time find. Yeah, the camera. The camera guy would be pretty easy to find that they're everywhere but. But definitely, you know, work work.

They're on street corners waiting for someone.

But you can, you can work. Yeah, just, I mean, just, just work with them once just to make, you know, make sure they're recording audio really properly and all the image looks really good and all that sort of stuff. And they can show you a show reel to make, you know, to make sure that adds up. But there's more camera. There's more good camera people than good editors. And it's really, it's really in the editing room and you know that that editor. You've just got to have a really good close relationship because they've got to translate your vision and your script into something that's really viewable. And obviously for sure, the only way of doing that is ton of, well, view a whole load of stuff that they've edited and if you like what they're doing, get on with them and all that sort of stuff. Then, yeah, hopefully that'll work out.

You know, it's interesting, which is rare, but people that are not only the ones that film, but also edit and do it effectively. I mean, there are a few people that just have that skill that have built these small, lean personality brands and they're usually not making documentaries, but they're making like shorter videos like the YouTube stars and stuff like that. But the thing is, when does one do short videos to try to convey or communicate something versus putting into a film? I mean, when do you start going down that road? Because a lot of people are just, you know, I'm working on our first documentary right now and this is a whole new thing for me. Although I've had, you know, I'm running, you know, the highest level marketing group in the world by many accounts, you know, it's, it's still like a new venture for me to do film.

I mean, I say, well, I mean, I mean, I really wouldn't go out and make a film unless you really, really want to make a film. I mean, I think there's a, as a route to growing your business quickly. It's probably not, it's not really the route because it does take a lot of time and energy. Whereas compared to making an amazing little 30 second video that goes viral on Facebook, go and do that, you're way better off making the short things that are going to work on, work on Facebook. That will basically bring it, bring it back to your business.

Right, right.

But I mean, for us, we're trying to educate a mass market on broader concepts that aren't well known. And to do that you need a long, you need a longer format. So that's why we're doing it. But I think if I had a more conventional business where I was not trying to change a paradigm, I wouldn't make films.

We'll go through your three films that you've done if anyone wants to go and watch them.

Sure. So the first was the Living Matrix where we basically look at this new science of healing and the concept of the body field. The second one was called Choice Point. Align your purpose. That was with all these megastars like Richard Branson, etc. And we were basically, that's like an overall philosophy of how you can find and align your purpose and how all of those, how those billionaires went through all their own personal crises and choice points, but ended up being able to have massive impact in the world. And then the third one is called Supercharged, which is basically looking at these five fundamental different ways that you can increase your energy outside of just diet.

And food, just since we brought it up and people then can dwell into it, what are the ways that people can increase energy other than diet and food? Just to kind of touch on that.

Sure. So, I mean, one. Well, one of the massive things in your biology is actually, it's actually 99% of the molecules in your body are actually hydrogen, oxygen, or, sorry, it's just water. And water has this. Water has this incredible ability to be able to convert energy from the sun and from light and you can see it everywhere around you in the form of plants and photosynthesis. But we, we don't commonly think, oh, I actually get energy, you know, myself from the sun. You can totally feel it. You know, if you go on holiday to a hot country or you live here in Arizona anyway.

Right.

So, you know, you have much higher energy than if you, if you went up to Iceland, you get, get all cold. That's literally because your body is constantly converting the radiant heat energy and energy from the sun, like in, well, basically into energy in your mind mitochondria. So yeah, sun is. The sun's probably the biggest movement is maybe, maybe a fairly obvious one. But like if you're moving around a lot, you're exchanging oxygen all the time. And this is another incredible fact. Like we think most of our energy again comes from food, but actually most of your, most of your energy also actually comes from oxygen. And the easiest way to increase the amount of oxygen exchange is through movement. And that doesn't mean you have to go out and knack yourself all the time, because that actually doesn't work.

Do what to yourself?

Knack yourself?

You know, like knack yourself?

Yeah, if you go and do like really intense exercise and not recover in between, that would tire you out. But I'm just talking about literal movement. So just walking around a lot in the day or doing yoga classes and all that type of things. The more you move, the more flexible your body is, the more blood gets around, the more oxygen exchange you have. So you just naturally have more energy. And I think that there is a big difference. We can think. I have to exercise really hard. Actually, exercising really hard is not the way to increase a lot of energy because it will tire you out. It's actually just, it's more gentle than that. It's just moving along.

Okay, that's good.

So that's another way, I mean really high quality water simply. Simply because most of your body is water and that's how you're able to convert Energy from the sun. So if your cells aren't full of high quality water, you won't have a lot of energy. Yeah, I mean there's all sorts of ways. I mean there's like using. It's maybe a harder concept, so probably want to look it up later. But the water can also have a memory. So you can use things like to imprint information into the water and drink those to trigger a healing response. But I'd say look that up later because that would be a half hour.

Yeah, no, you're right. And I'll have you give out where people can go look up that.

But yeah, I guess those are the main ways.

Okay, cool. So another thing, like being good with people. So since I'm a big relationship guy and I believe that you've been in genius Network for a bit and I think everyone should have a genius network, meaning not that they necessarily need to join my group. It's just having.

I don't think everyone should join your group.

Well, I mean every smart person with ambition should join my group. That does good things in the world. That would eliminate some people. Thank you.

Though.

What I think of as a genius Network is surround yourself with really smart people that have skills and capabilities, abilities that you're aligned with that can lead you to where you want to go and position yourself to meet them, which means doing things that many people are not willing to do.

And so I think. Yeah, great example of that. I've never had this conversation with you, but you know how you reach Richard Branson, I mean, a little bit similar, but you know, I've also reached Richard Branson maybe for a slightly similar methodology in a totally different way. But yeah, so like, so like, yeah, so I'll give a few examples. So. Yeah, yeah, so, so, so with Richard to, to get him on, to get him on camera. His, his nephew, his nephew actually applied to our company for, for a job. And anyway, so we, so we, so, so we gave him a job and he like worked the company for, I don't know, a year or two. And obviously he, he introduced us to Richard. But it didn't, it didn't necessarily come. Come to anything. I think it took about three. Took about three meetings till, yeah, till Richard agreed to be in the film. But, you know, he kept sort of coming back of like, you know, why all this or that? And I think ultimately, ultimately Richard did it because, I mean, the film was called Choice, why align your purpose? And it was all, it was basically all about, you know, help. It's all about educating and Helping people to go out and do good things in the world, which obviously Richard is about. I think the reason we were able to get all those billionaires is because they all want to help other people and they all want to see the world be a better place. And that film was about helping people to learn how to do that. So when there's a match between what, what they want to do and what. And what you're trying to do, then, yeah, they're far more likely to say yes versus, you know, if you just, I want to make a film and have these billionaires in it, that's just never, never, never going to happen. Because, you know, like, it really does have to be a match to what. To what they want to see in the world. So I think, yeah, so. And it's the same with it, with any film or like with the Living Matrix or any of them. Because, you know, I mean, ultimately, yeah, if you want stars in your film, the film's got to help the stars in some way. Otherwise why the hell should they give their time to do it?

Well, okay, so let's just take that as an example. People misconstrue going and asking for what you want, with the caveat being as you're asking for something, there's got to be a good reason for someone to do it, especially a busy person, especially an in demand person, especially someone that is not easily accessible. And in many cases, they have barriers of people and all kinds of things preventing access because they're in demand. When you're a who and the people want to get to you because of what you do and who you are, you better have a value proposition.

You better have that, and it will all. But also really. And it also really helps to be, I guess, to be persistent and to sort of recognize timing. I mean, it took us about two, two years to get all the stars lined up for that. And I did have a whole bunch of nose, whole bunch of nose. But, you know, it's just really bizarre. Like. Well, with Jean Paul de Jure, and I didn't have any connection with him, but I wanted. I wanted him in the film. And then, you know, I think I wrote to him and obviously I didn't get any answer from anyone or anything, but I just waited six months and then, you know, someone I met had some vague connection and then went like that. And that happened to work out or like, actually happened with Desmond Toot as well. Like, we wanted him in the film. Couldn't get hold of him. Couldn't get hold of Him. And then what happened is we read in the paper that he was. Was going to give the last. His last ever public appearance in Britain. So we rang up the place where he was giving the public appearance and said, you know, is your event being filmed as it's a historic moment? And they were like, no. We're like, well, we'll volunteer to film it and give you the footage. So that's how we got to film him. But it's just timing. Like, you know, we have a bunch of no's, but in my head, a no, it just means no today. It doesn't mean. It doesn't mean no in six months or a year. And if you just hold that in your head, it's amazing what can happen. And then you just have to wait for that sort of door to open. I mean, I'm not a particularly, you know, me a bit. I'm not a particularly pushy person that was sort of going like, you know, I'm not one of these salesy, you know, hound people who make all these connections happen. It's sort of more. You sort of just like wait for that right, for that right window, but when it's there, you freaking have to go through it.

No, no, you're right, you're right. And part of it is you can do stuff without being the pushy, pressure, creepy sort of person, because a lot of people become that, you know, they're so like, I got to have my thing. And if you can, if you show up with something useful, you don't have to rely so much on being loud or being pushy. And in many cases, that will drive not only if you don't approach it in the right way, it will not only drive people away, it becomes the reverse of being magnetic, it actually becomes repelling. And there are some people that will come at me and they don't have rapport with me. And I'm a very friendly, chummy, silly, bantering kind of human being with people that I have rapport with. But if someone's like, hey, Joe, like, they're, you know, like, people will post things on Facebook that I don't even know. Hey, buddy, how you like, well, what the fuck is that? I mean, I don't even know who you are. And, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna, like, respond back like you're a jerk. I'm just saying in my mind, I'm thinking like, you know, well, if you.

Want, if you want to build a relationship with people, I mean, where you have to go, where the people Are like CHS or Genius or wherever it.

Is, but people all the time, they're like, you know what I need to do in order to meet Richard Branson? It's like, well, freaking go on one of the trips. Go pay to do it. That's how. I mean, I explain on episode 29, like, if someone just types into the Internet, Joe Polish Magic rapport formula, or even if I think they just type in Magic rapport formula, I think articles and interviews and podcasts all about how I go about meeting people and connecting with people. It comes up.

It was a definite mental shift for me because I built our company in Britain and sure, these masterminds, they just don't exist there. So I never did any of it until I moved to the States. And even then, I didn't do it the first two or three years. And I can't. For whatever. I don't know, for whatever reason, I got an email from.

From.

From you or from Genius back two and a half years ago. I don't think I'm on your list, to be honest. I don't.

I don't even know how the hell.

Well, no. Well, no, it must have been. No, Well, I think. No, I think someone had tried to contact you five years ago. For choice points, I wanted Peter Diamandis, so that. I think that that's how. But, you know, and then I got this email. I was about. It was about the ant, the recording of the annual event. So I just bought that package. But. And then I was like, well, why the hell don't I just join? And then, you know, well, obviously, I'm so glad I did. And that's opened up my eyes because now, like, I think previously I went, you know, it might take me two, three years to get hold of a whole bunch of people. And I mean, it happened, but it was a very long process, as I say, just simply by writing a relatively small check for a business, you can get to know all these people right where they're at. And, yeah, just. Well, it just happens a lot more easily.

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I am amazed that people want to meet certain people, but then they have resistance to going to.

Where those people are at.

People like, oh, you know, how do I meet this? You know, how do I meet a Jeff Bezos? Or how do I meet one of these? It's like, well, first off, you can become a shareholder of the company and you can go to one of the shareholder meetings. You know, there's all kinds of things that a person can do. You can Find out what foundations or causes or interests. I mean, it's not that hard to meet celebrities. You can literally do a Google search and find out what gyms they work out at and what yoga studios they work out at. But to not be a creepy stalker.

Though, you know, you have.

You can find people, but, like, finding them in the right environment is what's important. And if you want to talk about business stuff with people, go to where there's a business thing if it has to. You know, I mean, so.

Yeah, because they're. When everyone's in that environment, they're all. Because they're all coming there to speak to people who are there. They're all completely open. You know, their. Their shackles aren't up, so.

Exactly, exactly. You know, people like, oh, I really want to meet Tony Robbins. Well, he's speaking at my event this year.

I mean, you may not just join his platinum Club. Right, Exactly. Just go to his events.

Exactly, Exactly. So although Tony is probably the most guarded person on the fricking. And I don't think I. I don't think I know another. And Tony's great. I mean, he. What I think is funny with Tony with all his bodyguards is like, the guy's huge, you know, I mean, like.

You wouldn't mess with him.

I wouldn't want him. Yeah. I mean, I remember last time I had dinner with Tony, we were at. It was after an event that I was at and he was at, and he had. He was the last speaker. And we go out to dinner with me and Tony in a place in downtown Phoenix, and it's like the place is packed because there was this big stadium, and he's got his three bodyguards on each side of the restaurant. And we're at the corner of a bar. We're eating there, like, the three of us, because we wanted to kind of be. And it's just comedy because I've hung around Desmond Tutu. I got to be Desmond Tutu in 2008 during a big conference one of my genius network members was putting on, and he was a speaker and all this stuff. But I've never seen a person more protected than maybe Sandra Day o'. Connor. Because I interviewed Sandra Day o', Connor, and they had Homeland Security and all kinds of people come to my office with the dogs and everything, because they have to do that sort of stuff. But other than political individuals, presidents, ex presidents and things like that, I mean, Tony's probably the most guarded person that.

Does he gets threats or.

No, no, it's not like threats what it does though, is it actually makes people want to get to him more because like, when you, when your position is untouchable, everyone's like, what the hell? I mean, I personally think Tony was using bodyguards, but he didn't have people jumping at him. And now all of a sudden everyone.

Just wants to get, get close to Tony.

I think it's, I think it's, it's quite, it's quite interesting, strategic.

Maybe we should both get bodyguards.

No, no, I'm. I really think we should start walking around with bodyguards.

I want to get a week just to experience it.

I want to get like. I want to get like bodyguards. Men and women bodyguards that dress up as like superheroes. Yeah, that could be interesting too, but it would be more like superhero costumes. I think that'd be funny. So, okay, so what are your recommendations for being good with people? Like, I mean, we've already talked about some things, but for someone that wants to go out and develop this skill and you're a pretty introverted guy, I would imagine, right? I mean, you're very soft spoken. I'm always having to put a mic in, you know, because you like Harry, speak up, you know, but so you, I mean, you don't come across that way. I can't imagine you being like the guy that's going to go out and like work a room. Right? I mean, that's just not your style. So there's a lot of people out there that are like, well, you know, I just can't talk like that. But, you know, I mean, here you.

Are, you've developed, I mean, well, I guess back to Richard Branson. He's really shy and introverted as well.

Right.

When you meet him. And totally it does, but it doesn't matter. But he's still extremely charismatic and charming. So. Yeah, yeah, I don't. That's the thing. I don't. You don't have to be like really pushy and go out. I mean, all you really have to do is be. Well, you just have to be responsive to other people and you know what I mean? It's pretty simple. You just, just be friendly and you just give what you can. If people are talking about something and you can help, then you help. It's not rocket science.

Yeah, I think you just hit the nail on the head with it. It's just simply be useful and generous in giving, I mean, in the right way, not with a hidden sort of agenda. I mean, everyone has something they would like. But when you try to like, fake sincerity or we try to act like, oh, you know, I'm really caring, but you really, I mean, you really genuinely should think about how can I create value for this person and just do it in a way. And if you really do, then this whole, you know, concept called reciprocity is just going to kick in. And I think life is a boomerang. If you put bad shit out there, it's going to come back and smack it.

I mean, I think it's also okay if it take, if it takes some time. I mean, yeah, you know, you don't, you don't have to like, you know, suddenly build loads of relationships super fast. Right? Yeah. If you, yeah. Take a bit of time, it'll work out for the longer term.

Yeah. So, okay, so you've had this company now for 14 years in Britain and Europe. You've been in the states for five years. You have close to 30 people that work for you. What advice would you give yourself, which would also be what would you be suggesting to people listening to this if you were to go back to year one and all of the things you've learned, what you've learned to do, what you've learned not to do, because there's just as much. So what were the key, I think.

In the early years, because I came out from being extremely ill, hadn't had any work experience, you know, hadn't really worked for any companies because I missed all of that out in my 20s. And so I, I just didn't have a clue about, like, heart, you know, hiring people and hiring good people. I didn't know anything about business either. But yeah, I think if I went back to then I'd say like the, the number one job of probably for any, any entrepreneur or CEO is hiring a great. Is hiring a great team. If I'd known that back then, I think I would have saved myself a lot of headaches for sure.

How does one know what a great.

Team is when you don't know what a great team? That's a good question. I would say there's a really good book that Eric Schmidt has just written. He's the CEO of Google.

Yeah, I helped him on one of his books.

I'm trying to remember what the name. I think it's called How Google Works. So there's a great chapter there on people and culture and how they recruit. Now, it's probably an extreme. It's probably more extreme than most of us are willing to go, but yeah, that would be a place. There's another book by Zappos on. Yeah, there's a culture book on the.

Delivery and happiness one.

Yeah, that's probably got some good stuff. And how else would you know? I mean, I see a lot of psychometric type testing. So we just make sure everyone goes through a whole set of tests. And if they don't have it depends what you're trying to hire. If you're trying to hire data people or accounting people, they've got to be good with numbers. If you're hiring marketers and they score low on words when you don't want them, put people through all these people profiling tests. For sure. Like, I won't interview anyone unless they pass all of that.

Okay, then, so a lot of profiles.

Yeah.

Like Myers Briggs or do you do Colby or what? Which ones do you like the most?

Trying to remember the name of it. Yeah. Well, we do use Colby as well. I use one that comes out of Holland that won't be particularly applicable. So what's the other one we use? Yeah, I think we use Indeed on Indeed. I think it's Indeed dot com. And that basically has a whole load of profiling. Okay.

Okay, cool. And so what mistakes did you make that had you known, you would have avoided them, that you could explain? What sort of precautions or things could you.

I say it depends on. I think it's something that's common to both of us. In our business history, we've given away our personal. Giving away your personal power sometimes, which comes down to this. Right. People like, yeah, if you. Well, if you. Sometimes things can happen in your life or if you get overwhelmed or people might come up and say, well, I can do this. I'll take this. Burden them away and do all that and just be very, very wary of that. Because unless it fits that sort of right team, unless you've really purposefully gone out and found that's fine. If you want to hire someone to be a chief operating officer and you've gone through the selection process and the right person, then that's fine. But if someone just comes along and says, well, I'll run this wheel, do that. That likely may be a bad mistake because you end up surrendering your power. And then six months later, a year later, you might realize you've got a lot of trouble. Yeah.

I mean, before recording, we're sharing our war stories of embezzlement. And it kind of sucks that a lot of times you just have to go through that hell in order to even know what that means. Some people, you can tell them, oh, don't delegate the checkbook. Hire the Right people. But until they have a wrong person that really either nearly bankrupts them or does bankrupt them or steals money from them or does something that damages their reputation, it's like people aren't looking for.

Just make sure it comes from your power and your deliberate thought when you bring someone in. Not because. Not because someone's come to you when you're in overwhelm and you give away your power. I think that's really the thing. It comes from your power. It's fine.

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.

It takes a bit to learn.

That's great. So the thing, if someone's listening to this and they're either. I mean, I'd almost like to get the broader spectrum sort of perspective on this, and they're either things aren't working and things cannot be working, meaning they don't have cash flow, their idea is no one's buying it, or they don't know how to market it, or they're successful financially in business, but they're burnt out, or they're overwhelmed, or they just simply don't know what they're doing. I always think of, and I've quoted this a million times, I haven't talked about it when I was giving a talk here at the Consumer Health Summit. And the Anthony Greenback quote, which I always, you know, since I'm having to do this from memory, I'm not sure exactly how it. How it goes, but it says to get through an impossible situation, you don't need the reflexes of a Grand Prix driver, the muscles of a Hercules, the mind of an Einstein. You simply need to know what to do. So in order to get through difficult situations, you need to know what to do. So when someone's out there and they're kind of lost and they don't quite know what to do, or they're having health challenges, like they're just dealing with adversity, and they're listening to this because they're hoping that it's going to help them with figuring out what the hell to do, like solving something. What do you do? Like, how do you approach difficulties?

There's two ways that come to mind. Certainly initially, what I used to do, and I still do a lot of. It's just, I read just a huge amount. Like, if you read a lot of books, listen to a lot of podcasts, and the more and more you learn, the more you'll piece that together. And obviously there's a vast amount of problems from helpful business or that. But I mean, it really depends what the problem is. But if you know what the problem is, then you can go and get the appropriate books. And if you get books from the most successful or top experts, probably, they're probably. It's really good advice that's in them. I mean, don't just read any book. So it might be trash, but if a lot of people are giving it great reviews on Amazon, it's probably a good source of information. If you're not into reading, which I'd say is probably a mistake, I think everyone should be into learning.

I agree.

But let's say you're not. I guess the other approach would be to just. To go. Well, I guess it comes down to the same thing. Like, go to places where there are really knowledgeable people in that area and just simply talk to them and ask them. Because 99% of the time, well, pretty much all the time, someone else has been through all of that stuff and they're going to have an answer for you.

Yeah, I guess the other thing we tell people is that if you don't want to do either of those things, you can just be a loser. You can just choose to fail. And by the way, I'm very empathetic and compassionate about stuff, and I want to give people a lot of slack, but almost to, like, when I sit and look at how much money I've spent, how much time, how many books I've read, and that people like, well, how do I do this? And they won't even read a book. It's. It's almost like, honestly, what do you want me to tell you? Like, you know, cross your. Cross your fingers and.

Well, yeah, that's what I think. You can't actually just ask people for answers. Like, yeah, if you're not prepared to learn as well. Like, yeah, well, you could tell someone an answer, but it's such a tiny piece of information and there's this huge, vast amount of context around everything, which you only get from learning.

Right, right. And learning is painfully slow in some cases. But you got in, like, what's that cliche? It's like, I don't. Not every leader is a reader, but I know very few leaders that aren't readers.

Actually, I was. I think maybe I'd say something slightly different because I think I. I know for me, like, when I got everything going and the times that things have worked out and the times things have gone badly, sometimes it's been like just. Just a question of faith. And like, if. If you have. If you have faith in that vision and you hold on to it, generally the answers, you know, the answers will appear and you'll get there. But it, like, you know, when you get huge amounts of doubt and all the rest of it and you're like, well, especially if you lose your faith, then, yeah, then that can take you down a slippery slope. So, yeah, I would say try and maintain your faith in what you're doing.

Right. Well, yeah, no, and that's a good point. I mean, just the sheer connection and belief and alignment with something you're willing to. You'll bring a level of stamina and commitment to it that if you don't have that, you just won't. And, I mean, you can have the best strategies, you can read the best books, you can be with the best people. But if you are not thirsty, if you're not. If you're not ambitious, I mean, it's.

Maybe a bit spiritual, but, like, the universe only conspires to. To help those who are completely committed and. Yeah, yeah. And obviously, like, failure. Like, sometimes failure could have been a week or a month before success.

Totally. Totally. And, you know, Ariel Garten, who is the creat of Muse, the Muse headband, and I did an interview with her that we have not put out yet. And she ended up building a pretty successful company so far with that product and with her brain research. And we spent a couple hours together. I first met her at ted, and she said that it's really hard to kill a good idea if you have something that's really great, even if you fail, even if you have a lot of things, if it keeps coming back, if people keep talking. She got, you know, she goes. A lot of times people, you know, if you just simply kind of look at how the marketplace is responding or looking to how this thing shows up. And that's why, you know, right now, in my, you know, because in a lot of ways, I'm in a startup phase. I think everyone kind of is, you know, with my addiction platform, with my recovery platform, with changing the global conference conversation about how people, you know, view addicts with compassion instead of judgment and going around and trying to find the best forms of treatment for people that struggle with addictions, that have efficacy, and then sharing those with the world. And then there's, you know, Joe Volunteer, which is like our Uber for volunteers to match people that want to volunteer with organizations that need them. Being run by a guy named Chip Franks, who's awesome, outside of Austin, Texas. That's Joe volunteer.com and artists4addicts.com and as we're speaking, we're getting ready to launch geniusrecovery.com and what's interesting about those, see, those are passion projects for me. Those are things that aren't even my core business. And a lot of them I'm funding out of pocket in order to start those things. And they take an already busy guy and keep me incredibly busy. And it's really hard to hire someone that has the vision because these are brand new approaches that no one's ever done before.

So it's not.

I can't.

You can't really have that vision.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so I'm looking at it going, you know, like some days I'll be like, can I do this? Can I pull this off? I mean, how, you know, I can't manufacture more time. And like, I don't know anyone that has this vision for recovery and addiction in quite the way that I do. And every person that is close to it from an operational standpoint or from a, you know, getting it out there standpoint, you know, I'm aligning myself with, you know, as best I know how. But the thing is, where the barometer for me is, is people keep freaking, they keep contacting me and they're like, how can I get involved? How can I help? And right now with Artists for addicts, we're like, buy an art piece. That's the best way, you know, that's the best way you can help us is invest in one of the art pieces, you know, on, on the website. But it's, it's, it's one of these things where I know these are brilliant ideas and concepts because just too many people like it. So the question is, how do I lay down the tracks? But see, that's a big question for everyone is laying down these tracks and just putting it together. Because any strategy, any business success is a series of to do's done in a certain way that produces certain result. All of this is a recipe. I mean, even with your health methodologies, even with your business, I mean, there are certain things you did that produced a successful result. There's things that you've tried in a test that didn't. So it's a matter of capturing success recipes, learning these success recipes from other people and applying the ones that you can to your own business and in your own life. So before we get into resources and things to leave the listener with, to go deeper with everything or anything that we've talked about or you think they should do, which I'd like you to recommend, is there anything that I should have Asked you that? I did not.

Probably not.

Or say it in another way. Is there anything else you'd like to share that I didn't bring up? That you just want to take the last remaining moments that we have and tell people?

Yeah, I think I'll probably just start again with that faith thing. Just have persistence and just keep going. And yeah, I guess also, I'd say. Also I'd say persistence combined. Combined with the idea. So, you know, I mean, it's going to confuse everyone to say this right at the end, but how then let's do it. If you're really persistent at the wrong idea, that's probably not, you know, that actually you could just be hitting your head again against a brick wall. So I just want to give some context to persistent.

Oh, can I say this too? Before you do, one of my favorite lines is the best way to get out of a hole is to quit digging it. So persistence in the wrong direction is not an attribute or quality. It's just stupid. I mean, if things are not working, get the hell out. Stop. The best way to complete a project is to drop it.

I think you sort of said if you're getting lots of feedback that people love it, then it's probably a good idea. You can work out fairly easily if things are good because if your customers are liking it or saying, well, it's really good, but can you do this? Can you do that? Well, that's a great sign. You know where to go and you can prove it and you'll iterate and get there. But if you're getting no traction and everything's just completely screwed up, then quit. Think of a new idea.

Exactly. Exactly. Awesome. Okay, so recommended resources. Where should people look and go?

So our health company where you could basically get a scan of your body field is on neshealth.com and yeah, if you want to watch any of those movies, it was thelivingmatrixmovie.com choicepointmovie.com and Supercharged was supercharged movie dot com. Great.

All right, Harry, thank you so much. Always a pleasure talking with you. Wherever you've heard this, I'm sure you know someone that would probably benefit greatly from hearing our discussion. Just go ahead and use these wonderful tools of informing the world and letting everyone pretend you're in a multi level company, but you're really not. And you have to like build a downline by people listening to this interview and actually adopting some sort of better life as a result of this and then share it because in a lot of ways I think this will help a lot. So been a pleasure and thank you everyone and have a wonderful day.

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