The Business of Coaching: How To Market and Make Millions In The Coaching Business with Brooke Castillo - I Love Marketing Episode #453

Obviously, a lot of companies have outside funding or they have, they're willing to go into debt to be able to grow their company. I didn't want to do any of that. I wanted to fund my own company and I wanted to be able to grow fast.

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Tell a little bit about what you do. And then I want to go into how do you, how did you build this really successful business? Because I know you're on your way to 100 million, that's for some weird reason important to you to hit 100 million. So we'll talk about how.

I want to talk about that weird reason.

Yeah.

And we can come back to that. But I run the Life Coach School. We have two main products. We have a product that is a membership site for people who want to get coached. And then we have a product that is we certify people who want to become life coaches. So it's a very simple business. That's actually one of the secrets to, to my success is that we keep our products very simple and we use our ADD and our marketing. And that's actually something that Frank taught me. He was like, he. And he doesn't follow that advice at all, by the way. Yeah, Frank calls me now. Frank was one of my initial mentors. He calls me right now and asks me why I'm so successful. And it literally is because of everything he told me to do. Which is amazing that he doesn't follow that. But any of it's a lot easier.

To deal with other people's marketing problems than deal with your own.

Right. It's so interesting because when I signed up, it was when I signed up for his program, I remember thinking to myself, I will pay him this money, but I'm going to do every single thing he tells me to do. And I did. And it's really helped and it's been great. So the membership is for clients and then the certification is for coaches. And one of the reasons, kind of funny story, why I created the membership is a lot of people that were becoming my students were saying, oh well, the reason why you can be so successful is because you have a biz op, basically. So I was selling something that people could make money at and I didn't believe that at all. And I said, I'm going to prove that you can make money servicing and helping the world. And so that's literally why I Started my membership program and it's been unbelievably fantastic.

So, yeah, I mean, what would you recommend to the entrepreneurs out here that have books and courses and teach and do seminars and then people that don't have that, they're in brick and mortar businesses. Anything that would help them with building and growing their profits in their business.

I think one of the most important things when you're building any business is to decide ahead of time what kind of business you want to end up with. And for me, I never wanted to. I wanted to work three days a week and I wanted to have a 50% profit margin. And I didn't know how to do that in the beginning because I didn't understand direct response. And as soon as I started studying direct response marketing, and I think one of the most significant lessons that I learned was self funded aggressive acquisition.

And that's okay. The breakdown of what that means, self funded, that's good.

So obviously a lot of companies have outside funding or they have. They're willing to go into debt to be able to grow their company. And I didn't want to do any of that. I wanted to fund my own company and I wanted to be able to grow fast. And that's tricky, right? Usually it takes a lot of money to grow or you grow slowly. And so I'm like, how do you do both at the same time? How do you grow fast and not take any outside funding? And so I really started studying direct response and understanding funnels and ascension funnels. And Todd Brown is amazing. If you don't know him, you should. He has what he calls the E5 method. You know Todd, right? Yeah, he's amazing. And so he had like my first aha. Business moment when I really understood that there's three ways that he describes acquiring a customer, right? You can. And most people, when they acquire a customer, want to be able to get paid immediately on that, right? That's like level one and level two because they're basically like, I want to make a profit immediately. And I feel like if you, if you think about making a profit early in the. In the funnel, you're going to make less profit later is kind of how I visualize most businesses. And when I work with other businesses, that's what I see. And then there's kind of the second type of acquiring customer where you can break even on that customer. And then there's a third kind where if you're willing to go into kind of the red on that customer, you can grow so much faster, right? Because Dan Kennedy, whoever pays the most for a customer is going to be able to win. But how do you do that and maintain cash flow and be able to fund yourself? And so my membership site is $297 a month to join the membership. And my initial goal was to get 3,000 people in there. And I had this idea, what if. And then My backend is 18,000 for a 6 month certification program. And so I had this thought, what if I was willing to use all the membership money as just marketing money as just money to fund the marketing for the backend. And that was like a $12 million business. And it was just, I mean, the money, how it's divided up, this was just kind of a mental construct for me. Right. But as soon as I did that, as soon as I was willing and you have to have your dialed in order to do this, but as soon as I was willing to do that, my business just exploded. That year we went from 5 to 17 million. Okay, willing to do that.

So you went to 5. And how many team members do you have right now? Because this is a very interesting model.

20.

20. 20 people. And you're doing 50 million a year revenue and you're netting. Yeah. I mean you, you're doing well.

Yeah, yeah. It scares people when I make that suggestion to them because that, you know, it's so interesting to me to talk to other people about money. Usually people making less money telling me that I'm doing it wrong. It's fascinating. But when I read this work from top round, I was like, wow, I had never thought of that. It's like if you want your money up front, right. And you want to be able to be able to cash it in, then you're not going to be able to fund your own business. You're going to have to get outside funding. And I just never wanted to do that. I wanted to be 100% owner.

Being able to self liquidate. Those were the words that made sense to me. How do you create self liquidating advertising where it just pays for stuff?

Yeah. And it does really work. And I want to kind of address the question that you asked. Like once you're making $50 million with a 50% margin, that money's like going into my pocket. People are always like, well, why do, why do you need more money? Why do you want to go for 100 million? And I've been thinking a lot about this question lately. I'd be like curious what other people think about this. But I've been asking a lot of People like, do you think that we have a responsibility to be extraordinary? Is like a question that I've been living with. I've been thinking a lot about the difference between. And everyone can think, you can all think about this for yourselves. Like, our current ability versus our capacity, like, personally. And so I've been thinking a lot about, like, my current ability is great, like at this level, but what is my capacity and how do I discover what that is? And I think the only way I've been able to do it is like, to cultivate a goal that is so much bigger than my current thinking that I can start pushing into what that potential might be. And I have a sense of responsibility to do that because I don't see myself kind of as the creator of that capacity. I feel like it's kind of like a gift and an opportunity.

Right.

So that's why the 100 million, I don't need any more money. I mean, I want it and I love it and I like it and I want to be an example of what's possible with it. And I have no shame about it, never will and will never apologize for it, but I don't need it for anything else. Like, what else am I going to buy? Money goals for me kind of put a line in the sand because they're measurable and it makes me think at a different level. And I'll actually tell you, this is kind of interesting. I was just talking to Amy Porterfield about this. As I got closer to 50 million, I noticed that the way I was thinking about my business became like, because I was at 42 million, I started thinking about how to close that gap between 42 and 50 million. And I didn't even realize that I was doing it. And before that, I was just focused on the hundred million. Okay. But as soon as I started thinking about how to close that gap, my. My thinking got so much smaller because I was thinking in like $8 million increments. And, and that's an improvement solution, right? I could think about, oh, how could I take this and just make it a little bit better? But when I. And I realized I was feel like that grind a little bit, and I stepped back from that, went, wait, what's going on? Why has the freedom of the bigger thinking, like, kind of gone away from me? And it's like, because now I'm focused on the difference between 42 and 50 instead of thinking about 100. And as soon as I step back and started thinking about 100 way better ideas, so much more, less stress. So much more creativity, so much more space and time to think.

You know, it's interesting, too, because me and Dan do a podcast together, dan Sullivan, called 10X Talk. Right. There's so many different things you've done. What are the. The elegant ideas, the elegant things that you've done that you think.

Yeah. I'll tell you about a new one I've been thinking about a lot lately. And this is real. This is, I don't know, one of the most important things I think, actually. And maybe you. I'll do it with you and to kind of demonstrate it. Right. So it's like, I believe I have a. I have a model that I created for my business that I teach my. My students and that I also teach my coaches to use. And the ideas. Our thoughts create our feelings. And thoughts are just sentences in our minds. Right. Our thoughts create our feelings. Our feelings drive our actions, and our actions create our results. And so it's very important to know what you're thinking. And it's also very difficult to know what you're thinking on the regular because you have about 60,000 thoughts a day. So the question that I came up with for myself, and this is usually how I develop most of my work, is I come up with thoughts or ideas for myself and apply them to myself so I can grow, and then I teach them to my students. So what is the thought that you have about your business when you're alone and there's no one around?

What is the thought I have about?

When you think about your business, what is the main thought you're thinking about? Not the one like, be really honest. This isn't the headline one that you want all your customers to know, but this is the one you're actually thinking about.

Yeah, that's why I'm not blurting it out. What I've learned in the past is there's the seminar answer. Answer.

Right.

And then there's the real answer.

Yeah. Let's pretend like we're not in a seminar.

Yeah.

Me and you coaching on the trail, hiking a mountain. Like, what is the thought you have about your own business? What's the one that keeps reoccurring? Pay attention. If it's a question like, is the juice really worth the squeeze? If it's a question that keeps coming up, just answer it. Just answer the question that's the thought. Right. And find that one thought that's like reoccurring. This is so important for all of us to just be aware. These thoughts just. And that thought every time you Think about that business is just showing up, you're feeling bad and you don't even realize that that one sentence is robbing you of feeling good and motivated and excited and determined about it.

Yes.

So it's just like an awareness to understand that thought feels this way. We don't have to try and change it or judge it or whatever. So that's. I mean, you were asking me for mind tips. Like I've talked to crazy successful people and they have thoughts. Like one guy was like, his thought was I'm leaving money on the table and it was making him feel so, like immobilized.

Yeah.

Even though it was true. Right. So it's just being aware of that one sentence that you have about your business and then deciding instead what you'd rather think and then thinking that consciously. So what, what do you want to think when you think about that business?

And I often do, I feel grateful. I mean, like there's a couple billion people on the planet right now. Their dreams would come true if they could trade places with me or most people in this room for even an hour. So I. You know what has made one of the most differences in me? There's this frickin deck of Eckhart Tolle that from the book Silence Speaks, which seems to not make any sense. Right? Silence Speaks. And it's one of these cards and I used to pull this card out all the time and it's the top card that I have this deck in a drawer and it says, here's a spiritual practice for you. Don't take your thoughts so seriously. And because oftentimes I used to really believe the shit that my brain would think. Yeah. And oftentimes now I pause and say it's just a thought. You know, thoughts, feelings are not facts. Even though I feel awful, doesn't mean things are awful in there. My attic brain will go into really dark places and it. And I used to believe those dark places were my reality. And I now realize I'm just dipping into the pool of shit in my mind. But just give myself perspective. Or it's an indicator. Talk to somebody, don't worry alone. Which is something that my.

Well, and the way that I think about it is your brain is supposed to be a balance of positive negative thoughts and negative thoughts. There's nothing. We're not beating ourselves up for them, we're not mad about them. We're just deciding when you think about that company, your recovery business, like what is the thought you want to have when you think about it?

Man, I Just want to reduce and eliminate suffering for you.

Every time you think about that business, I have so much to offer. I have so much of an impact to make care.

And it's one of the hardest things, talking to people that have addictions and seeing some of the stuff. And it's difficult work. And at the same time, it's one of the most fulfilling things that I do. It is the most fulfilling thing that I do.

It's the most fulfilling thing that I do.

It's just to see someone just that pain and that angst, because I resonate with it. And so I want to stop or eliminate or reduce that. And it feels really good when I do.

That's amazing. So it's like if every time you thought about that business, it was like, I can have an impact here. This is the most fulfilling thing I do. You don't even realize, like, this isn't like affirmations. This is just a redirection of your brain instead of, this isn't anywhere where I need it to be. Right. It's that subtle of a shift.

Can I also say something too? Because this was not just like, as weird as this may sound, like I've done a ton of therapy and I simultaneously kept reading books and going to coaching. And I've been in Dan Sullivan's program, strategic coach, since 1997. And there were times that I would literally go to coach and I'd get into town and I'd be stressed out of my mind and I'd be staying at a hotel next to Strategic Coach and I would literally hire an escort and pay for sex and I'd be in this weird fucked up place, like, feeling so shameful and so like, what the hell's wrong with me? And then I'd go to coach and I'd do goal setting and I walk out and then I feel empowered. And it would give me some space for a period of time and then I would trip and I would fall down and I would mess up my life and I would not tell anyone because how do I say that to anyone? It's so embarrassing. It's so shameful and. But I just never gave up. And I just kept doing it because that voice inside of me, and believe me, I've been suicidal. There's times where I'm like, I just did not want to exist on this planet. And I would contemplate how I would kill myself. And there was that voice, though, that said, nope, that's not what, you know, talk to someone. And I just kept at it and Dan, as a coach, really helped me reframe so much of my negativity. Even though it was in an environment of business, I applied it my personal life. So all of us that are out truly doing the work, I mean, I think, you know, I'm a wounded healer as much as I would not really call myself a healer. It's just I. We're all kind of doing that.

But I will tell you, this is one of the things I love about getting rich, is because if I go into a room, especially like, I kind of came up with, you know, Frank Kern, just bro. Marketers talk about being offensive.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, when I walk in and I'm a life coach and, you know, nobody's paying any attention to me, and then I come in and I'm like, most improved player making millions of dollars. And they're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, well, let's talk about feelings. And it was like, okay, what about them? And I'm like. And it really gave the opportunity, I think, because I don't think that story that you're sharing. There are so many of us that have so much shame and so much pain and so many things we're trying to hide. And I will tell you, there's a huge difference between making money because you want to explore your own capacity and trying to outrun your own self. And try and. Because, listen, there is not enough money in the world, not enough success in the world to outrun your own lack of worthiness. I mean, it just doesn't actually happen. And watching other people kind of come up in this industry with me and watching them get burnt out, that is the difference. If you're trying to outrun your own pain, like, you can't run fast enough, and you will get so tired. Right. And so I. I think one of the. The secrets of. Of really the mental work is understanding that everything you think is wrong with you is normal part of being a human being.

Yeah. What I've learned is that what you think is most private is most public. The stuff that you think. You're the only one that deals with this and no one would understand. There are so many other people that. And I'll tell you, it wasn't until I started talking about it that it really started lifting. I used to describe myself as. I was always in a hurry to be somewhere. There was a dark cloud always chasing me and raining and shitting on my parade. So I'd have to. If I just kept working hard enough and driving hard enough, I could escape it for just a period of time. And then when I'd get really stressed out, I needed to numb it with workaholism or behavioral addictions or some sort of substance. And eventually I realized I need to embrace my shadow self and quit hating this side of me, because the pain of it is trying to tell me something. Pain is a messenger. That's why my first chapter in my book is Be a Pain Detective. I was a really good pain detective for other people because I understood pain, but I did not understand my own pain. And until I really started sitting with my own pain and my own angst and my own need to escape, where I realized, wow, you know, you just need to sit with it and converse with it. And I started talking to the pain and all the physical pain. Like, I used to write journals in my 20s and in my 30s and when I had my carpet cleaning business. And like 20 years later, I went back and looked at all of these journals, I started writing, and almost every day, I had no memory of this constant back pain, knee pain, shoulder pain. And I was young and exercising and doing manual labor, and I was in constant chronic pain. And it wasn't because there was something structurally wrong with me. It was my psychology. It was psychosomatic. It was literally repressed emotions that I didn't know how to sit and feel.

And I actually think this is one of the gifts of entrepreneurship is the. The setting of the goals that are so big, that bring up all of the insecurity and all of the doubt and all of the shame that we think will prevent us from being able to achieve that. And in order to achieve it, healing all of that stuff. And that. That's an, I think, another reason to have, you know, these huge goals in your life, because it does bring it up. But I do think a lot of entrepreneurs that have a lot of trauma try to outrun it, too.

Oh, totally.

It's like figuring out that balance between, are you turning an obst into a strategy and becoming the person that you're meant to be, or are you just trying to get rich enough so no one will notice how much you hate yourself?

That statement is so true. I mean, that's why my whole thing is sell people what they want and give them what they need.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, they all. You think money's. And I've learned this more by sitting with people that are. I mean, I've been in recovery rooms with three different billionaires that everyone would know in the room at the same time. And I somehow Find myself in these rooms because of doing my own recovery work. And people like, money does not often solve problems. It magnifies it. Because if you have not addressed some of your dark stuff and you are rich, you can buy almost any crazy vice that your twisted brain can come up with.

Well, and not only that, it's not just the money. It's a success, too, right? It's like meeting people that are entrepreneurs that can't put their phone down. They can't relax. It's like, we always make fun of, like, when you go out to dinner and they're like, I have to take this. It's really important. It's like, they might as well. Just saying this is. This phone call is just way more important than you, right? It's like, I'm so important and you're not. And, like, that kind of energy for me is, like, so fascinating to watch people try to be important because of their success. It just doesn't work.

So let me ask you then. So to go from where you're at now to where you want to go, and you are totally okay with what you want. You want what you want, right? And how are you going to do it? What is the Brooke Castillo business strategy? Roadmap or what do you like? How do you get there?

Okay, I'm only sharing with this room, though. Okay.

Okay.

All right. This is just between us. Turn your video cameras off. This is how I do it. I try something, and if it works, I do it again. And if it doesn't work, I don't do it again.

Okay, so wait, let me get this right. So you do something else.

Y', all, we had a deal.

If this works, you repeat it. Yeah, that's what I heard you say.

And I double down and I. 10 times it. Like, you know, literally, people are always like, I can't set a goal to make $100 million because I don't know how to make a hundred million dollars. I'm like, you know how you figure out how to make $100 million? You know when you'll know exactly how to make $100 million? When you've made $100 million, then you'll know. Because think about this in your life. Like, if I would have asked myself 10 years ago how I made $50 million, I couldn't have told myself. There's no way I could have said, oh, and this is how. Right. I know now, but there's no way I would have known then how to do it. And so a lot of us are like, well, I can't set that goal because I don't already know how. And here's the problem. When you think you know how, I watch people do this all the time. Let's say you want to make 100 million doll you my formula, okay? I'm gonna do this and this and this and this. That for sure isn't gonna work. You guys know that, right? It's like you set a plan, and that's not gonna work. And then you're gonna be like, okay, well, I can't make $100 million now because the how didn't work. But if you don't know the how, it's so much better because then you just keep trying different hows, and you're gonna try, like, 700 how's, and then you'll figure out, and then you'll go, oh, that's how I made 100 million.

Right?

So I'll tell you when we. When I get there.

Gotcha.

Right? And then I'll know. And I think that's true for everyone. Thank you. I think that's true for all of us. Like, don't be afraid to pick a goal because you don't know how to get there. That's why you pick the goal, because you figure it out as you go, right? You figure it out. And, like, I learned this from Dan. It's like, as soon as you set the goal, 500 things are gonna come up of why you can't do it or how not to do it or what's in your way. That's a beautiful thing, right? If you study his work, it's all about, you take that obstacle, you turn it into a strategy, and then all of a sudden, you have all of these strategies of how to try to get there, and then more obstacles come up. And then along the way, you have all these amazing strategic byproducts that you get to enjoy, right? And so it's like when people are like, I'm not going to set a goal and go after it because I don't know how to get there. I'm like, what are you talking about? Of course you don't know how to get there. Every person that innovated anything new didn't know how to get there before they got there. If we only did things we already knew how to do, we would just keep recreating the past, right? There would be no innovation.

That is great. Do you have, like, for a muse, a higher power? Do you have something that you tap into when you feel overwhelmed or discouraged or wanting to throw in the towel or do you not get to that place anymore?

Right.

I'm saying it facetiously.

I just, at some point, stopped being human.

I'm pretending to be a life coach. I'm pretending to be a life coach, Brooke.

Every third day, day. I'm obsessed with being a hostess. They have the best job.

Yeah.

It's just like, right this way, that's all they have to do. And right this way. And then they go home and they.

Just rest and they don't have to deal. Because I believe inside every entrepreneur is inside every entrepreneur, someone slowly going crazy.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. Or has already gone completely.

Oh, no, totally.

Yeah. Which is amazing. Yeah. No, I definitely have an higher power that I identify with, but I do really, actually interesting. Like, exercise with my own future self. And it's kind of like, you know, to think and grow rich. Counsel. I really do have that. And, like, I'm in it, like, 10 years from now.

Oh, interesting.

The best advice for myself. Think about. Okay, this is actually so interesting. Think about the advice that you would give yourself 10 years ago. If you could, like, go back 10 years, what would you say? Mostly everybody says the same thing. Relax. It's gonna be okay. And don't date that guy. It's no good. Don't date him. Right?

That's it.

That's what I would say. And so when I talk to my future self, that's all she. She's like, girl, it's all good. It's all good.

I just have to remember, like, every. For every person that you've gone to a workshop or seminar or therapist to get over, you know that the person that broke up with you is going to a workshop or therapist or whatever to get over you.

No, for sure they're not. They are not going to workshop. So you're. That I shouldn't have dated. That's a whole different show. But.

I could do a whole hour just on this one right here.

But I do actually think it's, like, so power. It's like, a crazy thing. Like, you don't have to tell anyone you're doing this, but next time you're, like, driving in your car, like, Talk to yourself 10 years from now and just, like, ask yourself questions and, like, you will actually answer yourself with the best advice. And it's not like, oh, make sure you buy Apple or make sure you run this kind of ad. It's always like. Like, just relax.

Yeah.

Yeah. You get here just fine. It's all going to be good. Stop freaking out.

Well, you know the often overused question, but it's a good question, is what would you say to your 20 year old self?

I would be like, don't change anything, just like be you. Like this I believe. Okay, this, this is like one of my philosophies in life. I think we all kind of go through life comparing our current life to the life that we think we should be having. And when you think about the life that you should be having, it's all, nobody has that life. Like we should have perfect parents and we should have like never been bullied and we shouldn't have been sexually abused or traumatized and we shouldn't have, you know, been treated by that professor in college, whatever. And then like we compare our life to that and we're so upset by the comparison of that life. And what Like, I don't even know where that comes from. Like everyone wants to have perfect parents. I don't know anyone that's had perfect parents. Right? And so it's like, what if this is exactly the life we're supposed to be having? In my 20s, I was supposed to go through all those shenanigans so I could be here and like understand it when you talk about addiction and understand it when you talk about your pain. Understand all of the things that you've gone through. Like I wouldn't change any of it. So. And I feel that way about like I'm willing to have big goals and put myself in harm's way, like emotionally because I want to explore that capability, I want to explore that capacity because it would be really easy for me now to just like sit in my big house and enjoy. But like, I mean, and I learned this from Dan too. I'm like, when I'm like 89, I'm going to be like, let's go, let's start a new company. Like let's, let's do something new. What are we going to do when we grow up? Like that's what I want to be saying at that point in my life.

So how do you have fun? So we've only got a couple minutes left, but how do you, like, what's the funnest thing for you?

Well, this is the greatest thing too, because people talk about money. Because I love to talk about money. I love to talk about how much I love money, like out loud at people because it makes people uncomfortable. Like I love, like why do you want to make so much money? I'm like, cuz I love it. They're like, whoa, whoa. Like aren't we doing this for the impact. I'm like, and the money, right? The money is good. I like it. And so it, like, freaks people out. So that's why I'd like to talk about that. So I think spending money is fun. Yeah. And I think, like, you know, people, money really can create happy experiences.

Oh, yeah. No.

I like, throw all my friends on a jet and we fly to amazing places and do amazing things with amazing people and we spare no expense. Like, it's a blast. But the most fun I have is like, it's so crazy. It's like, I think this is one of the reasons why earning money is so magical. Because if you inherit money, because I'll ask people all the time, I'll be like, do you want to earn your money or do you want to win it in the lottery? And some people be like, oh, winning it in the lottery? I'm like, what? That's only one time. If you earn it, then you just keep earning it every year.

And things that are. That are not earned are seldom valued.

And not only that, it's like someone could come take all my money away and I stop my brain, right? I'm like, I still got this. I'm gonna do that again. Right? And I. And to me, that is fun. But like, like enjoying myself. One of the most amazing things for me is hiking. My three favorite things to do. Hiking in the mountains and hanging out with my kids and my friends and reading. It doesn't cost anything.

We were in San Diego. We went hiking, Right?

I love, love, love that. And I. And if I love earning money and I love stretching my capacity and I love having money and spending it, and I'm just going to keep doing all of it way.

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