The One About Getting Results - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #82

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey, everybody, it's D. Dean Jackson and.

Joe Polish and a couple of guests that we have with us here. We're in New York City.

New York City.

And I've got a cold.

I know.

Why do I have a cold? Because I've been hanging around Dean Jackson. I'm run down because it's Dean's fault. And yeah, part of this episode is personal responsibility, and I think Dean needs to take responsibility for his inappropriate actions towards making me sick. Okay, we've got you guys, so introduce yourselves.

Kevin Thompson.

Say what you do. No, we'll get to that in a moment.

Okay. I teach business owners and aspiring business owners how to make adjustments to their business or get their business started correctly so that ultimately it serves them and provides for the lifestyle they want to live.

Yeah. Awesome. Morgan, what do you do?

Rejuvenation and Performance center, an institution institute in Sedona, Arizona. And we help business owners and entrepreneurs to step into rejuvenation and to use that to power their peak performance levels.

Yeah, well, then these guys are a couple cool cats and you'll hear them talk and plug their businesses later because they do cool stuff that you'll probably, as a listener of I love marketing, want to look into. And yeah, we're here, York, because it's been a fun filled, festive event.

So I'll brag about your head because, I mean, yeah, better than you did the self aggrandizing. I'll aggrandize you myself.

Edify me, please.

I'll edify you. So that event, I mean, was really a very, very powerful thing. I mean, you had.

We were in what event?

You got to explain what it is.

Oh, that's true. It's not like we haven't mentioned it to. To Everybody. But your 25k annual event with Peter Diamandis, the Abundance Conference, it was just Fantastic. We had 130 or 140 people there. All 25k members are people who had paid $10,000 to be there. And just the level of people in that room was phenomenal. I mean, when we talked, we did our episode where we talked about ideas and connections being, you know, the two big wow factors that you can have to really make an exponential difference in your business. That was what this event was, full of ideas and connections. Now, having the speakers, we had Steve Forbes, we had Peter Diamandis, you had Arianna Huffington, Ray Kurzweil. I mean, this whole. It was like, you know, These guys normally would come to events with a thousand or two thousand people, you know, big, like conference, big, you know, big civic center type of events. Right. Here they are in this small group of really high performing entrepreneurs. And it was very amazing though that, that one of the formats that we used was 10 minute talks where the people who were participants, 25k members, other people, Eben Pagan, Tim Ferriss, Brendon Burchard, all these people coming to share like incredible ideas and the context of it being like ted's idea of the TED conference of ideas worth spreading, that these were ideas worth using. And the whole context was that everybody was sharing in 10 minutes an idea that was worth $250,000. So that literally every minute was worth $25,000 of hearing somebody talk. And honestly, I got the most out of those 10 minute talks, even more than the marquee speakers, because they really were like practical, usable things that were just like big distinctions, you know.

And the fun thing was that it was, it was like everybody was. You had the top level entrepreneurs and each guy wanted to make sure they were doing their absolute best. So it was like a competition, right, Right.

One upping.

No, it was Joe let me back.

Clean up at the very end. But he told everybody, you know how, you know the saying, we'll begin what will leave very best.

No, Yeah, I said, I go, I thought that was the classic. I was like, is there one day I say to him, you leave the best for last. And I'm like, well, that is not going to happen. And that was right before Deeds Deeds talk. But he then got up and gave a really freaking stellar talk, which is the subject of what we're going to talk about on marketing today. Yeah, you know what, let me say that before one of my other ones that I said, which I, you know, have to think was pretty witty of me to say this. Ariana Huffington had just gotten there, which is. She was in the, you know, sitting on the front, one of the front tables and Ray Kurzweil is in the back. And he had just spoken and I think it was Abby was talking, One of the 25k members was up at the mic and she was talking about how, you know, the new hologram technology where you can beam Ray Kurzweil down on stage. And I said, yeah, you know how Ray's eyes predicting the future and everything? I mean, 20 years ago, if you would have wanted to see a hologram of Ray Kurzweil, you would have had to eat acid in order to do that. And Arianna Huffington's there and Ray Kurzweil's there. And I just looked back and Ray Kurzweil was cracking up over that statement, which I thought was, I thought that was great. And we have Neil DeGrasse Tyson that actually showed up, one of Peter's friends and spoke in the morning on the second day and just, yeah, Morgan gave a talk during lunch. And I mean it was just in Austin in Morgan Hatt. One of your websites is Grace Grove, which is, you know, your retreat center in Sedona, which is now the Performance Institute. What's the full name of it?

With the Rejuvenation Institution.

Performance Institute. Yeah. And so if anyone wants to check that out, they can go to gracegrove.com or whatever. And Kevin Thompson, what's your website? Automatic Income Coach, automaticincomecoach.com and we'll get into their philosophies on just their expertise and what they do and how they do it. One of the subjects of your 10 minute talk though, and I want to mention this to the listening to this episode, is that all the ideas were intended to be worth $250,000. So it's like a quarter million dollar idea. And so you wanted to give people a way to think about how they get paid for what it is they do in order to maybe shift the way they market, package, sell, present position, their products and services. And you've been doing this very successfully in a certain way and you've kind of figured out some stuff and I'd like you to frame this episode and talk about what's important about that.

Yeah, well, it's, you know, I started out with the, an overriding question, a provocation of, and it's a question that I started asking maybe five years ago, before I was ever able to, to really do it. Because it's kind of a, I call it a clarifying question. But when you first hear it, it's sort of a terrifying question. So the question is what do if you only got paid if your client gets a result? Now when you first ask that question, you know, the first thought that goes in your mind is, well, I can't do that or I can't, you know, you start thinking it's kind of a scary thing. But when you really take it seriously, when you really think that through, and I encourage people just to even think that thought changes the way that you look at your business. Because what I found and every business that I've ever done consulting with and asked that question, it's a clarifying Question that gets right to the heart of what is it that you actually do that gets the result? So often when people are trying to sell high priced things, they try and pad it and bulk it up. I see it all the time with coaching programs or mastermind groups or info products. They try and pad up all this stuff to add bulk to it. But if they're literally, if their life depended on it or if they had to get a result before they got paid, it would probably be, they would not sell it by the pound, they'd throw away all that fluff and get right to the one thing that actually gets the result. And so when you start thinking that way, you have to be sort of crystal clear on what it is that you do that actually gets the result. And it's very easy to if it's something if you're in a business where your business is training people how to get better results in their business because it's purely an economic play. You know, it's kind of a thing where you can monetarily measure the result that they're getting. Just like if somebody's teaching you, like Kevin somebody's teaching you how to create automated income, that the result that somebody would expect is that after being one of your clients that they're going to know how to get automated income. That's right, yeah. Now if you look at what Morgan does, it's not so much a monetarily tangible thing, but there is a result that somebody is expecting when they exchange money for anything. It's either a psychic result, it's a measurable energy result, it's a fitness, it could be a certain weight loss result, it's all whatever it is, there's some result that somebody is paying for. And to know what that actually is for your business, what is the critical core of what you do to actually get that result? So that thought, that question will really kind of point the direction. Even if you only ask it privately and silently. You don't have to declare it, you don't have to make a statement of it. You can ask yourself in your mind right now without even, you know, letting anybody else know that you're thinking the thought. It helps to just kind of start that way. And then that was kind of the context to set it all up. And then so it took me maybe two years of thinking that thought and really observing what we do with our, with our money making websites business for the real estate agents.

Well, let me say too that because you know what immediately is going to happen to most people in Situations where you're posed with a new way of doing something that you're not conditioned to, that you've probably never done, is you're going to see all these obstacles. That's what happens when you paint a possibility or say, hey, you should do something this way. People are like, well, but, but, but what if, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so certainly there's people that are in certain types of businesses where their immediate thought right now is, this just wouldn't work for me. Yeah, you're doing money making websites. Yeah, that's not going to work. And so part of what we want to accomplish with this episode is to have you not to use the cliche too much, think outside the box. This really is thinking outside. This is adding some creative destruction to how you go about doing things. Before you go deeper with this, are there applications or situations right off the bat that you just, across the board, this could never work for?

I've been really trying to think about that. Like, I think, like, you know, you see it with Kevin's business, certainly it would apply with Morgan's business. What do you think when you say that? Like we talked about, you know, you heard me talk about it yesterday. What was going through your mind when I was saying it yesterday?

I got excited about it, really. It was like, it takes all the pressure off me because I don't feel like I have the marketing skills that you guys have. So if people were to come to me and I didn't get paid unless I delivered what they wanted, I got excited about it. Because that's one thing we do. We say, here's the three results. What are the top three things that you want to get out of this, out of the program that you do with this? And if they don't get those three results, of course we guarantee it, get your money back. So why not do it right up front, Right.

And see, that's the thought, right? When you think that thought, one of the things that, that allows you to do, if you take the economic question out of what you do right now, forget what you charge for something, forget what it is that people are paying currently for what you do, and focus on what is the result that you can deliver for somebody, what is it that they really want? And I say, what would you do if you only got paid when your client gets a result? But the next level of that, the next question of that is, what could you do for your client if they would let you do it? What's the best result that you can get them? Sometimes people Limit the result that they can get because they're working within this limit framework of how much they can charge for something or what their current rate is. When. If you really looked at it, if you really looked at going all the way without any sort of limitation, without putting a price on it, without putting an expectation or a limitation of what somebody would currently pay for it, just with what, you know, the resources that you have, the knowledge that you have, what could you do for somebody that would get all the way. The result that they really want? You know, and that. And so that leads you to, like, an expanded way of thinking about what it is that you do, because often so much is sort of undervalued, you know, because it's just focused on what's the market rate for whatever it is that I do or that sounds high, but if you think about the. The result of it, you know, and it's. So when you start thinking about what could you do for somebody, it's applying your very best knowledge to one situation, you know, and often there's. So there's somebody who would happily pay way more than what you're charging right now to get the full extent of the results that you could get for somebody. So it's kind of, you know, it's encouraging. It kind of sets the. When I say, what would you do to get the core result? Often you have to do far less than what you're actually selling, because so much of it is padding or bundling it up to make it seem like it's more. And the, you know, when you think about what could you do, taking out the economic factor of it, you really think, like, how could I do my very best work for somebody? You know, what am I really capable of if they would let me do that for them?

That's what I'm trying to say. I'm glad you're just doing most of talking here, because every time I talk, I feel like I'm a freaking cold night.

Yeah.

I'm wondering if people can hear me coughing in the back. By the way, we didn't even describe where the hell we are. We're in New York. We're Times Square, 24 stories up. Times Square and looking over the river. Yeah. And in a hotel suite where we did the event and.

Which is an upgrade, though when we were doing them in Atlanta, we're not sitting on the bed.

Yeah.

We were all cuddled up on the bed and. Yeah, we had John Benson and Craig Valentine and Ryan Dice.

Yeah, they were sitting on the bed. Dean was Like, I think on a big Paula Beanie Babies or something. All right, so, Kevin, why don't you lean forward and, like, say something useful here?

Something useful.

What did you. What are your thoughts on all this?

Well, so when Dean, when you were talking about this at Joe's 25K, you know, I immediately started thinking like, okay, if that's the way it was, and I only got paid if I delivered results, my first question is like, okay, you know, I've kind of got two classes of people that I serve. The existing business owner and the aspiring business owner. And I was like, what is the result that each of these groups want? And for the existing business owner, with the strategies that I teach and start showing them how to use systemization, use technology to automate some of the stuff that they do in their business every day so that they can start stepping back from doing so much and maybe stuff that they don't like doing so they can start spending more time of doing the stuff they do, like doing or maybe even out of their business, maybe with family, personal stuff, maybe some hobbies or something they want to do. They just want to free up some time, maybe. So what that person wants to see, it might be money, but in reality, what they want to see is they want to see the first steps in that system happening. They want to see that they can have that system in place and that they're seeing those results even before the money end of it. And if they can see those results fast, then it gives them the confidence to know, okay, you know, this is working like Kevin told me it would, and that the money is shortly around the corner, too. Because if they can get. The thing is, if they can get that system in place, I can show them the money. And it's so easy to do with an existing business owner, but it's getting that system in place first. And then with the aspiring business owner, the person who has never had a business before, their number one question is, what am I going to sell? Because. And that's what every business. I mean, heck, when I started my carpet cleaning business all the way back in 1996, before I even met Joe, at least I knew. When I started that carpet cleaning business, I knew what I was going to be selling. And of course, you know, us in this space here in this room, we all know that what we sell is definitely not the most important component of our business. So that is not the most important question. The most important question as far as what I teach my clients, is, who are you going to serve and what do you have a value to offer them? When I point that out to the aspiring business owner and start showing them this way, what you have to do, your number one thing, let's assume that you're already making a great income doing what you do and you're enjoying it. Well, what does that look like? What does that look like? Forget the products and services of what you're going to be selling, but who do you want to be a hero to? How do you want to provide value to them? And now, I mean, once we can come up with an answer to that question, and it's something that you're passionate about, that is so much more valuable than how am I going to make money doing whatever this thing is that I'm setting out to do? Because everybody just. I mean, heck, when I started the carpet cleaning business, I got into it thinking. I mean, that was my whole motivation. I just want to make money doing this thing, which I knew was going to be carpet cleaning, right?

Yes.

And even when I was making the money, and thank God I met Joe, my first year in business was absolutely miserable. I was out there working my tail off. And Joe, you talk about this all the time. It's easier to go broke sitting on the couch than it is out there working your tail off. But that's what I was doing. I was going broke every day. I went out to work. Fortunately, I met Joe, and he showed me how to turn that around. But once I was making the money, what I didn't realize was what was going to be required of me to make that money. And when I got there, I'm like, you know what? This isn't what I want for myself. And so if we can start looking at this a little bit differently and from the aspiring entrepreneur side of, like, okay, what do I really want to be doing? How do I really want to be serving people? And I can get them to actually get passionate about something when in turn, they get committed. And if they can bring that passion and commitment to the table and all the rest is just how to, I can give them the how to, but I can't give them the passion, and I can't give them the commitment.

So, yeah, no, that.

That.

That's a. That's a really good point. And I think with creating value first, like, one of the things that I started doing with the free room of carpet cleaning was it's not quite the way that you have it set up, but there is no, I don't think, perfect way to do this. It's just what works Right. How do you deliver the result?

No, that's a good, I mean essentially you are delivering the result there.

Right, right. No, I mean what I meant is.

Like you're getting, you're offering somebody the free room of carpet cleaning with no strings attached, with no expectation, but you have to deliver in that one room of cleaning what they would expect if they did the rest of the house. Or you do, you know, you do that one room and see that's the thing, that's where you know, the next level, like the clarifying thoughts that I've had or observations after doing this now is that you actually have to deliver less result than you have to promise to get somebody to give you money first. You know so. And you know, so I want to.

Say that like you're explain what you mean by that.

I want to explain that, that when.

You look at it.

If I. Our offer with money making websites now is the simplest thing ever. If you're a real estate agent and you're in a market where we don't currently have somebody right now, we work with one person in each marketplace, then we will, and you meet a couple of qualifications, that you live in a market, more than 10,000 people, that you've been in real estate for at least one or two years, that you personally work with people with clients, that you're friendly and cooperative and that you're likable. You know, those are the things that we look for in somebody that we work with. And if you meet those criteria, then our offer is that we'll give you a website. We'll set up your website for you, I'll buy your domain name, I'll host your website, have it completely built. We will give you your autoresponder account. I've done all of the marketing, I'm going to take you through a 12 week coaching program on how to actually use your money making website and I'm going to show you how to get a result within that 90 day period. At the end of 90 days, you've either done your first transaction or you're imminently doing your first transaction. And when you do your first transaction, you'll pay us $1,500. And then you pay $99 a month for your website, but you don't pay us anything. We don't even take their credit card up front with nothing. So we do all that and we give them their first hundred dollars of Google Adwords. So it's a compelling offer, but if you really break it down, what I'm delivering is I have to deliver one transaction, I have to show them how to get one transaction. And I know that if I show them how to get one transaction that they're going to know how to get 10, 20, 30 transactions from that because the mechanics are all the same. But it's such a compelling offer that all I have to do is get them one transaction. Now that doesn't sound as sexy if you're putting that in a marketing message where you're going to give me the. I'm going to give you the message where I'm going to give you the marketing message. If I'm saying to you, hey, buy one of our money making websites, it's $1,500, $99 a month and I'm going to show you how to get one transaction.

Right.

That doesn't sound very sexy for somebody to give me money up front, does it?

No.

And the truth is they're going to get more. But if I'm talking about it in the marketing, you've got to promise more. You got to paint a bigger picture for them that you may be talking about. And showing our clients who, you know, get 10, 15, 30 times ROI on the money that they spend. You talk about those things and you kind of build up the expectation. But if I'm actually delivering the result, the bar is set much lower. But it still sounds really compelling.

Absolutely.

Doesn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

And so that's where you have to promise way, you have to deliver way less than you have to promise. You know, I thought about you with 25k. Think about that. You want to talk about it?

Let's do it.

The whole thing. Like you look at it, I'd rather.

You just talk about it and I sit here and listen. What I also failed to mention is not only did we do a two day event which was very long because we had it more jam packed with everything. So it was literally I was working from 7 in the morning till, you know, 10 at night both nights. And then yesterday we, you know, we ended at six and I immediately hop in a cab with Peter Diamandis to do an X Prize for childhood obesity discussion at Arianna Huffington's house. And so she's cool as heck. So I had six emails back and forth today with Arianna Huffington and she even tweeted a photo from the 25k meeting, which was awesome. And today I had to give a keynote presentation. I shouldn't say had to. I mean, I chose to give a keynote presentation. The main keynote was our friend Robert Cialdini. Who we're going to have. You know, people have seen the video with Robert and basically in the evening I was speaking and so I literally just got done giving a presentation and yeah, I'm. So the whole reason why I'd rather just sit back and let you know about stuff is I'm a little tired.

So here's the thing, right? So your sort of implicit promise of 25K is that you're going to get at least $250,000 of value in the first year or you're not invited back. So that's, that's a compelling. I don't say compelling. It's. What is it? It's a.

What's certainly an implied result.

It's an implied result. You're saying.

But I don't guarantee it.

You don't guarantee it, but you're saying that when you put it on that that you got to get 250,000 or I'm not going to invite you back. You're kind of the expectation is set that 25k is worth 10 times what you, what you pay to be a part of it.

Right. And if anyone comes to it, they clearly see that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but you think about like the, so you look at the, the offer of it, like what would be the, what would be the amount of money that if you said to somebody, if you're in a business, you're an entrepreneur, you're a owner of a business that is a marketing driven business and you make a million dollars a year and you're cool and you like to learn and you meet these requirements. We want you to come on out to Phoenix with us and fly on out there and I'm going to give you a check for $50,000. And then what I'd like you to do then is after the first meeting, give me $25,000 and you're a part of 25K. That's kind of, it'd be an interesting, a different type of, of offer.

Right.

And there would be zero resistance to an offer like that with there. You could even say I'm gonna give you. I could even give my $30,000, $30,000 and you give me 25,000. People would still do that, right? I mean people would come to 25k if it was free.

Right?

So which is implicitly really it's that they're getting a $25,000 return for their $25,000 investment. That's kind of it lower, you know, the. If that, if you were able to do that and I'm not saying that you can. I'm asking the question, if I only got paid, if 25k members get a result, what would I do? Right, because you're, what you're doing, you're creating the environment, you're creating the discussions, you're creating the opportunity for people to match up with other people and to do, to do deals that are ultimately going to be worth $250,000 to them. Or you're providing the opportunity to be in the meetings and you're bringing up the topics and you're bringing in the guests where they're gonna get ideas that they can apply that are going to be worth $250,000. You're doing all of that. But what would you do if you only got paid? If they got the result, what would you do to ensure that they get the result? And that's all, I mean, that's the thought. And it doesn't mean that you have to do it that way. But thinking that way, even if stick with the model where you're going to get paid up front, is going to improve what you actually do, what you actually deliver. Because you're taking that mindset of what if I only got paid?

Yeah, I think part of where I've gone with the 10 minute talks is a result of thinking about that. Because we did these 10 minute talks where every talk was focused on a best practice worth $250,000. So my focus on that was that how do you set it up so in the span of a 10 minute presentation, if you look at the whole talk and what was shared and the content of what was shared and the usability of the elegant idea that was shared, every minute would be worth $25,000. So how do you make one minute worth 25 grand? And the reason I started going down that path was because I'd like to. You know, there's people that were in that room that told me that one talk was worth my quarter million dollars. No, no, no one said that about yours. Actually, I think a good portion of the room actually felt that about you. You have one quote in there which I can't remember exactly how you said it. Do you remember that one?

I'll say it again.

Yeah, yeah, that was really profound. And again, I'm saying this in front of other people into the whole. You know, I love marketing community, how much it fucking pains me, but it was really profound. But what I'm doing with this is attempting to not go into the same place that I know many people that are hearing this saying oh, this can't work for me. There's even that side of my brain that says, well, there are certain things you do for free and there's certain things you do for a fee. Because the case could be made that we could immediately say, all right, I love marketing. The only way we're going to get paid for. I love marketing, is I can't ramble. I can't make any stupid jokes anymore. I can go straight to the content. Then, of course, that would take away the real joy of listening to. I love marketing. For people that never implement anything. They get to be entertained. Maybe they're listening to this for entertainment and not results. I don't know. But the thing about it is that quantifying stuff. And part of the reason for charging a fee for 25k is because if I. You're absolutely right. If I made this free, Christ, we'd have a parade of people that would. Oh, man, I can't wait to get into it. Because it's the highest level group in the world, and the marquee value of the people in it is huge.

And I'm not saying.

Okay, let me finish up. So there's that part to it. But there's a thing going, well, you know, you got to charge up front because there has to be a qualification. And that's typically how my mind right now is wired. Think. Because I know there are things you do for free and things you do for a fee. But I'm still processing this whole thing because there is a way to crack this and to do it in the right way. And you'll never get to that if you can't even allow yourself to have the conversation. And if you put up all these boundaries and walls, just like a lot of people listening are going through this, I'm still in my own area of complexity. Because you said it took you two years.

Yeah.

To kind of think it through. A lot of this stuff just. You got to let it percolate. You can't. You can't. Boom. What's the instant model?

Right.

I mean. Yeah, that's not it.

And like I said, the first step is to silently and quietly ask yourself the question, what would I do? You don't have to say it out loud. Just think the thought.

Yeah.

And I mean, that kind of changes the way you look at it anyway. It doesn't. You don't have to admit to anybody that you're thinking that thought, but you start observing what you do do differently. You start to see where the actual. Where the results lie. You know, when you think about, you observe the people who do get $250,000 worth of result from being part of 25k, you see how that happens? Was that an idea that they got or was that a connection that they got? Because those are really the two primary things that are going to be the driver of results.

Well, you know, one thing that I've been thinking about with this is that there's been three people that are 25K members that have told me that if I ever start 100, they'll join my $100,000 group once. If I ever start a hundred K group, they're already in 25K. And you know, part of me is like thinking, well, but if you. Does that applied to the status level.

That'S this part of it. But don't you think, I believe that if you quantifiably could deliver $250,000 of results to somebody, that they would pay $100,000.

I agree also. Exactly.

And so thinking, here's a thought. How could I.

You're right, because it might be just a golden, like, obvious model that's right in front. Because we have numerous people in 25k that not only make a quarter million, but we, you know, like Dan Sullivan. I mean, he's been in the group for what, how long has he been in? Two, three years? Not, not three years, but maybe a little over two years. And he's, you know, said, you know, yesterday, I mean, I've easily. Yeah, first 10 minutes of the first meeting, he got the idea that's now been responsible for three and a half to $4 million in business, you know, Dean Graziosi, tens of millions of dollars as a result of it. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's that sort of, you know, and even.

On a lower level, you know, so you mentioned Dan and you mentioned Dean Graziosi. So those guys, they already had stuff like majorly on the ball already, right?

A lot of success in business already.

Yeah, already there.

Yeah.

So.

But then, like, you just gave the example of these real estate guys. Just that first transaction, you know, that's.

All we got to get.

And when I came into your group, when I came into the 25K group, you know, it happened because you and I were having a phone conversation. I had already sold my carpet cleaning business at that point, and you were just talking to me and you said, you need to be in the 25k group.

Yeah.

And of course, at that time in my life, that was the biggest investment I've ever made in my Life. And with 25K, it was just like, send you a check.

It's not for learning, not for investment, because obviously you have houses and garages.

Yeah, the biggest one time investment to be a part of something that it was just send you a check, not make monthly payments, but because you and I had a history. And because basically you were like, kev, you know what, we go back, you know, dang, well, I'm going to deliver. And when you said that, I was like, you know, he's right. He's always delivered, you know, and we had a history of that. And so I sent you the check. And at that point in my life, that was a big. That was the biggest check I ever wrote. And at that very first meeting, after the first day of the two day meeting, we were out at dinner one night, I remember it clearly, we went to this sushi restaurant. I was talking with Dan and I was telling him about this whole thing. And Dan was like, at the end of that conversation, I was explaining it to him and how I wrote that check to you. And I was like, you know, I was like, man, I really want to get that money back. And the sooner the better. Dan was like, you know what, let's make it happen. And he found out a little bit about me and what I was doing. He's like, you know what, I can help you get your message out there a little bit. And within less than four weeks, I have my $25,000 back. And so for me, that was a big deal because now I got to go through the rest of the year not having to worry about am I going to get my investment back. That weight was totally lifted off my shoulders, and now I could just concentrate on just enjoying being there, learning new things. Honestly, at that point in my life, if you would have told me that I could take that 25,000 and turn it into 250,000, even though we went back, I might have had a hard time believing you at that point in my life. Of course, now I don't heck that one. You made one introduction for me last year, and that one introduction alone was worth $187,000 within two months. And now that's a regular occurrence. But for somebody who doesn't know this, I mean, this whole thing of just asking yourself that question, that's the problem. And I think the worst mistakes that somebody could make listening to this would be to just immediately shut it down. It's like, that's impossible. I could never do that. You got to open up your mind to the possibility that, hey, maybe this is possible, and let me just at least start thinking about it, because it does totally change your mindset.

And that is the key. Thank you. By the way, what he just said is the key. Because, like, part of my thing with the whole comment of if you don't make $250,000 within the first year, it's sort of a trick that I play on people because what I want them do is I want them focusing on listening for 250,000 ideas. Because the mind cannot ignore a question.

Every meeting, you've got the forms, elegant idea, $250,000 ideas. You have them write them down. Every meeting, yeah.

So now what you're doing is you're throwing this right back at me by posing your question of how the hell do you get paid if you can only produce results? So for the people listening, they're thinking, well, first off, I don't sell a $25,000 coaching, but welcome to reality. Hardly anyone does. That's why it's the highest level group. The point is, though, it's out of that group that these sort of ideas come. I mean, it's really when you're brainstorming with incredibly sharp, bright and the best people that I think do this with, which are marketers, people that actually make their living because they have to sell something. They're incentivized to figure out how to package, how to present, how to communicate it. This is a whole other model that I think very few people, for one, understand, use. And we're trying to open it up to the I love marketing community because I think there's gold in them there hills.

Gold in them there hills.

It's just people don't know how to mine for it. So this is a different way to get access to all of the money that exists. Because there is money. There's money.

If you're in the business and you're in the business of getting results, you know how to do it. I mean, you know, sometimes the biggest obstacle, you know, you see people, you know, the need there. People have a need and a desire for whatever business you're in, whatever result it is that you. That you get. You know, the big thing is picking a result that. That people actually want. Need desire.

Right. And I'm lifting up my fingers for those of you that are only listening, because of course, we. This is nothing videotape. And I'm wanting to interject here. You know, the whole. We've talked about, you know, a lot on. I Love marketing about guaranteeing what it is you do. And it's funny because the ultimate amateur is someone that will argue about, I can't guarantee something because I'm just going to ask for their money back. And I've always loved the line from my friend Dave Keckich, which is real simple. Competency starts with guaranteeing your work. I mean, if you're competent in what you do, why wouldn't you guarantee it? And I also know there are certain things that you guarantee. You have to be careful how you. Many things can have unconditional guarantees. And of course, you could argue that every single thing should be guaranteed. There are certain boundaries you put up from like low life customers. And when I say low life customers, there are people that simply will just try to hack the system no matter what. So there are certain contextual things that I think need to be done before you just. If you have a restaurant, you don't just open it up to anyone that walks down the street and say, free food for everyone. Pay for it if you like it. I mean, I mean, that's a real quick way to go broke, maybe. So I'm not going to rule everything out. But we have people that argue about, well, I can't guarantee my work.

Even with carpet cleaners.

I tell them 100% guarantee work. Oh, I can't do that. It's like, well, for one, unless the quality of your work sucks or you're going out and marketing a free room of carpet cleaning, I know it is the best offer in the world for carpet cleaners. You don't get paid unless you produce results. However, I also know that that's an offer that doesn't work well unless you target it at homeowners. Because if you just target it at people that are renting, they don't have a vested interest in the home and therefore you don't produce the same result. I also know that if you just do a free room of carpet cleaning and you don't do a process that I invented called a carpet audit, where you actually discover the conditions of the carpet, how frequently they clean. Does anyone smoke? What type of vacuuming system do they use, what generation of carpet?

All these questions, educated and motivated, right?

Exactly. You know, then you're not going to get the same result. I mean, so a lot of cleaners in the carpet cleaning industry, but this applies to every industry, will argue, well, I can't do that. Well, you can do it if you do it the way we describe it. Now this blows the whole guarantee argument out of the water. Because guaranteeing your work is. If that's difficult for someone. This is like trying to swallow. This is like trying to swallow. I own a clothing store. How is this going to work for me? I have a movie theater. Half the movies suck. If someone comes in, they only pay. But the point is, like, what Kevin is saying, the fact that. I think we're all saying it. The fact that once you shove this sort of opposition, question, possibility in front of your brain, it has to figure out what to do with it. And our point is it's worth figuring it out. Even on if this episode, by the time we're done, if you still think there's no way in hell this will work, I would really hope. Just hang on to it. Just think about it. Just think about it and kind of go with us on this because put.

It in the comments and we'll see how we can figure out how you could.

Right?

Yeah.

There's going to be some people that instantly are going to be like, oh, my God. I mean, we were at our recent. We had an I love marketing meeting. And we will not go into details of what business this person is in. He kind of got it in his mind about, you know, literally, you know, made a hundred sales by giving something away for free. You know what I'm talking. But the point is. So there's. There's all kinds of ways that just one idea can shift the way you think about everything. And I think one way to look about. Then I'll shut the hell up and let you give that brilliant comment you had talked about before. We run out of time. I don't think we're out of time here. But anyway, one of the things that this will do is if you're still not grasping it as a possibility, just imagine if a law was passed a week from today and you no longer could sell what it is you're selling except getting paid after you produce the result. If you just put yourself under that sort of pressure, mindset, your brain will just come up with stuff it will simply not come up with if you don't give it. That.

That's a provocation. That's what that's called. Give yourself a provocation.

There you go.

Yeah. So when. So that my. The first observation that I had about that was that you actually have to deliver less result than you'd have to promise in the marketing because it's sexier. You know, you build things up. But the next observation that I had in doing it myself is that it's actually less expensive to go ahead and deliver the result for somebody than it is to convince them to give you the money first to get them the result. And that, you know, for me, part of the thing with our. Our websites was, and for any business, really, there's everybody's used to having a cost of acquisition, of acquiring a customer of, you know, they attribute or they build that into the cost of what it is that they do. And there's, you know, the cost of generating a lead and then sending out information to them or following up with them, or having somebody on your sales team go through a sales presentation with them. And there's the time involved in them doing all of their due diligence and getting all their questions answered ahead of time before they give you the money to actually get them the result. And I just found in observing it that it was actually way less expensive to just go ahead and deliver the result for them. Like, when I really broke it down, I started with asking that question, what would I do? That led me to think about, you know, that are really. If I only. All I have to do is get them one transaction, and that's only. That's going to cost me maybe $250 to do that. So I'd rather, you know, and I was happy to pay more than that to acquire a new customer, you know, to acquire a new client, because the lifetime value is so high. I would have gladly paid, you know, $700 for a client. So I just realized, why not take that money and invest it in my own, you know, couple it with my own confidence in knowing what I do. And I'd rather spend $250 on you, Morgan, to help you get the result that you want. And knowing that when you get that result, that I'm going to get the $1500, then I'm going to get $99 forever. Because you're never gonna let this go.

Well, from a customer standpoint, what a high level of integrity. That's, you know, and that's what is lacking oftentimes for me trying to find someone to help me with my marketing is, you know, you pay, you pay, you pay. And where are the results you're guaranteeing up front? I mean, it's fabulous.

Yeah.

And it's so, you know, that kind of thinking, if you know what it actually costs for you to deliver a result for somebody, it makes so much sense to really take an honest look at that. Take an honest look at what does it cost you to acquire a customer now? Or what would you gladly pay for that? And what does it cost you to actually deliver the result? Put them side by side and kind of look at it. And I guarantee you it's less money to actually get the result often than it is to acquire somebody. And just the. I can now get 30 people at a time. We do classes of 30 each month. And I can get 30 people with a P.S. in an email to, you know, to engage. Because it's a compelling offer. It's compelling. There's no, I mean, the number one thing that people look for is they're looking for the catch. Yeah, but you're so transparent and open about it that there is, there literally is no catch. It's not. I mean, I'm writing, I'm actually spending money to get you that result. And they appreciate that. And especially in the real estate industry, it's so funny because that nobody had ever thought to do this with the real estate agents because that's exactly how they work. I mean, you think about it, if they come, they work with somebody, they list your house, they're taking on all the cost of doing the marketing, of doing all the photographs, spending the time, investing the time to market your house, show the house, find a buyer, and then when they find a buyer, then they get paid thousands and thousands of dollars. Now, there's no way that the real estate industry could support the level of commissions, the price that somebody pays to sell their house. If you had to convince people to write the check up front, can you imagine you're selling a half a million dollar house and I'm going to need a check for $30,000, please. It would be very difficult.

You know, that would be a hard sale.

It is, absolutely. But it's easy to take the next step because the next observation that I had, and it just fits in perfectly with that, is that people are far less attached to future money than they are to present money. They're far less attached to money that's coming in the future than they are to money that they have in their pocket right now. That money's already spent. That money is accounted for.

And when I first taught you that concept. No, no kidding. Right before we started recording this episode, Dean said that I was like, wow, that's actually. That sounds actually pretty good. Say that again in a second.

People are far less attached to future money than they are to present money. Yeah, the present money is already spent. It's difficult to get them to spend the money that they already have. But to spend some percentage of future money that's coming that you're. Especially if it's attached to what you're doing for them. Their winners are magnanimous. They're much more willing to share that, you know.

Yeah.

Well, let me say this too, because I think this is a subject that we're going to continue to bring up, explore. We're going to have our listeners probably play around with different variations of this. I certainly know this will stretch people's brains, and we hope that, you know, the beauty of this sort of question, though, is it actually, I think, forces value creation.

Absolutely, it does. That's the ultimate value creation.

Because, you know, if you're selling crap, if you're not delivering a dream solution, if you're, you know, if you don't care about your clients or customers or whatever, you know, and a lot of business owners don't, you know, they're just reckless. You know, you'll immediately probably not only poo poo an idea like this. Even if you attempted to try a variation, you probably screw it up because it has to. You know, I talked about a little bit today about pricing. I didn't go into this area, but people that pay a higher price, like, you know, someone that pays $25,000 to come to my group, has a much different expectation than going to a seminar for $500. You know, people, you know, when you go to, you know, Four Seasons Hotel, you have a much different expectation than going to the Holiday Inn, and you're gonna pay a different price. And so with this sort of thing, I mean, in order to get paid, you literally, you know, you have to put your money where your mouth is. And, you know, I mean, it just really, I think, is a mechanism of improvement, you know. Now, before we wrap this episode, I want to give these two guys an opportunity to just talk for a couple minutes about their businesses and stuff, because, you know, we're talking. I think it's cool to see how all of these marketing strategies can be applied to any sort of.

Absolutely.

Type.

Let me wrap this up.

I got one more. The thing you talked about. I want you to make that statement.

Yeah. So what it all really came down to is that the biggest observation that I've had is that a compelling offer is 10 times more valuable than a convincing argument. And that thought alone, there's such a difference between somebody being compelled to do something and somebody being convinced to do something. It's almost like you're, you know, getting into the jet stream, or it's like this, you know, you're getting sucked into this jet stream. It's already heading in that Right direction and the moment powerful force in marketing is somebody who's compelled to do something in their own self interest. I mean, you can't stand in their way. We talk about this idea of your clients, your prospects being like mice and how we talk about. Mice are pre programmed with two prime directives to get cheese. Avoid cats. A mouse is compelled to seek cheese and if it sniffs cheese, it's compelled to go towards you. You don't have to convince a mouse to try some cheese.

Right.

It just has to know that there's some cheese in the vicinity and it's automatically compelled to go to that cheese. Now you might have to convince a mouse to try some broccoli or something. I mean, you know, whatever. It's like they're compelled to get the cheese and your clients are compelled to seek out the things that they really want, no matter what it is. Whether it's money, whether it's more time away from their business or a more automated way to generate their money, or whether it's more energy or more, you know, whatever. The return on the energy that somebody could have by really getting into rejuvenation. So those are the big thoughts or big observations that I've had in doing that.

Yeah. So I'd like all of our listeners to percolate on this. Think about it, comment@ilovemarketing.com and explore this. Because it could very well completely change the way you do business and get paid. If you crack the code on this, you also will create a model that hardly anyone could ever compete with. Because once you can successfully not only deliver the result, because many people can deliver the results, this is not just job one. That's the thing, right? Yeah. This is not about delivering a result. Some people may hear this and say, well now I actually got to improve what I do, which is not a bad thing. This is more about how it's communicated. This is more about really the thing we quote all the time. Robert Colyou entering a conversation that exists in the prospect's mind. This is literally about being able to be a more effective marketer. You guys, any final thoughts you have on this? And just a couple things about your business because what you do and how you do it sort of thing.

Well, I mean for me this couldn't have been more perfect timing. And I really want to thank you Dean, for your 10 minute talk at the 25K group this week because I mean, as soon as you posed the question, I was immediately open to it because I was. I mean, because I know I could Produce results. And so I was immediately open to it. And so, you know, the 10 minute talk got me really thinking about it now. You know, getting to spend this time with you guys and really expand on this whole thing. I mean, my mind is like, I mean, I could come up with some really good stuff here, right? And this can. I mean, it's not like I'm not doing well already, but this, this can change everything for my own business. And you know, so for anybody listening to this, I mean, like I said, you know, just. Just be open to this. Just be open to. Just, just kind of be open to the question. And, And I mean, I'm not gonna do a big pitch on my business, but I'm just, I. I am. Maybe we'll sometime later do a follow up or something because I'm like, you know, I'm way excited to see what happens because I'm good at. Take this thing and run with it.

No, yeah, we should. We'll do a separate.

He wants to percolate on his offer. And then when he comes up with it, then we'll do another.

I'll come back and tell you guys later what happened. That's like, that's like pilfering our. I love marketing.

He's no fool.

Yeah, that's. Yeah. And you know, Kevin's. Kevin's a great example of a, you know, former Alaskan fisherman that nearly died and left a horrendous job in the pursuit of the quote, unquote, American dream, where that of course, became the American nightmare for him. And through. We met when he was this dead broke carpet cleaner living off credit cards. And even when he first bought. And that was in 1997. Yeah. I mean, that's how many years you've been a client, which is great. Which I think says a lot about me. The funny thing is that with Kevin's story, he's such a rags to riches story, which is great. So he learned marketing. He built up this very successful carpet cleaning business, created a client council. He's the one where I had this strategy, you know, do client appreciation dinners. And he actually, through the process of doing this with his clients, came up with a better way to name it and package it, called the client counsel. And then we started introducing that to our clients in the cleaning niche. And then we had them really go deep with it. Now we have people that have, I mean, you took it to one level. Now we have clients run into client council that have turned into this whole process. It's unbelievable what you can do with an Idea, that's the power. Like our things, ideas versus execution. This is an idea. And so Kevin took that and then he started teaching other people. His carpet cleaning company became by referral only he only like would do service people that were referred. He became a very high end business. He ended up selling it because he fell in love with marketing, kind of like me. And so now he teaches people how to stay at home. Moms, people that you know, startups, existing entrepreneurs, how to use really effective direct response online marketing. And now he's built himself a million dollar plus business and it's awesome. So anyway, thank you Kevin. We'll do a follow up with you. Morgan, I not too long ago went to your retreat center and had a lovely with my new girlfriend at the time who's now I guess still relatively new. But now we're all bonded because we spent a week doing a liver and gallbladder flush. And like I mentioned at the 25k meeting that like speeds up the bonding you could do with someone. Literally one week is like the equivalent of two years of hanging out with someone. You know, going to the bathroom in front of your partner after doing a liver and gallbladder flush is like kindergarten. I mean, because you really go through. However, Morgan, there was a person at their, you know, center, this beautiful place in Sedona next to a lake. And it's awesome. And so I want, I don't want to paint a picture of weirdness. This is actually a health and rejuvenation center that allows you to eliminate many, many health problems, not only physically, but mentally. And there was an individual that was there that told us that that place literally saved his life, that he thought he, he was in such poor condition and health that he thought he would be dead had he not gone there. So they are changing people's lives. And so you're not in a business like me, Dean and Kevin where you're teaching people making money stuff. You're actually. Although I would argue that if you're in poor health, it's probably the ability to make money when you're lethargic is hard. So what do you do there and how does it work and how do you utilize these marketing things? What's.

Well, you know what really excites me about what Dean's talking about here is I spend so much time on the phone talking about to folks and it's like oftentimes they'll spend money on their business or whatever, but they don't spend it on themselves. So if I'm that confident that What I'm going to do for them, that if they don't get the results, their stay is free. If I have that kind of confidence and all it takes for them is to have that same kind of confidence in themselves. I mean, that's really inspiring. So if I'm on the phone and I'm talking to somebody, I said, look, you come, you don't get those results, you don't pay for it, or you don't pay for it until you get the results.

Yeah, right.

I love that. It says a lot about who I am as a human being and the integrity that I'm going to put into what they do.

It's positioning. When you think about that. You know, when somebody comes, do you, I mean, think about it. You go to a hotel and they don't. They bill your credit card in advance or they bill it after you leave?

Yeah, I think it depends. I don't know.

It's interesting. I mean, the way that you think about your cost of having somebody there is much less than what they pay to be there. It's kind of an interesting thing when you frame it like that. That come for the week and we're not going to bill your credit card until you tell me that you got what you're expecting.

Exactly.

That's different than me. Take your credit card, take all the money, and then if you don't want it, I'm going to give you back your money.

Yeah.

The only question, the only question I have about it is I wonder, you know, I like people to be in, I want them committed as well.

I got it.

So that's, that's, that's the only show up.

I mean, they've got me. They're coming.

Yeah.

It's just that it's an interesting mindset. It's a different thing. Like I, you know, the example I used on the thing was, you know, about a coaching program. If, you know, if I said to somebody, you know, here's how our coaching program works. We, you know, you're gonna give me $1,000 on the first of the month, and on the second of the month I'm gonna deposit $2,000 into your, into your bank account. That would be a pretty easy sell. I mean, it'd be, you know, it's a pretty, it's a sure thing kind of thing. And you wouldn't have to deliver any, you know, I said to people, we don't have any meetings, we don't have any conference calls. There's no workplace, there's no newsletter, nothing like that just the exchange, you give me a thousand, I'm going to give you two.

Right.

How many would be in. But then, you know, it's a completely different thing. If I said, Listen, on the first of the month, I'm going to deposit $2,000 into your account, and on the second of the month, I want you to write me a check for $1,000. That's. It's a complete. There would be zero resistance on something like that. Well, I like, Even though it's a slight, you know, it's just a slight change and the exchange is still the same.

I'm thinking like in Joe's case, too, if he's off, you know, if somebody's making, maybe you should be getting a percentage of that. If they're making it, they're making. Maybe there's, maybe there's actually a revenue model here.

Recognize the process of actually delivering the result. There's way more in it. And I think that.

No, absolutely, because there are clients in this that if I took a percentage of their business, I, I mean, they'd be paying me, you know, some couple would probably be paying a million a year.

Yeah. Imagine if that, if 25k was an incubator, like you take that thing where you screen people to accept them into 25k and you're, you know, I'm just thinking like that kind of, that thought can't come unless you think the thought, what would I do if I only got paid on results?

Right.

And then following that with, what could I do if I was getting paid for results?

No, you're absolutely right.

I consistently have clients who tell me it was worth much more. In fact, I'll call like Lanny Morton, for example, came and said, this is a $50,000 program. I do stuff all over. $50,000. Okay, Lanny, well, just pay me half of that.

Right.

Let's see if that's the case.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. No, this gives me a lot of food for thought. And if someone wants to go to your center or check it out online, what's the best website?

RPI, institute.com or gracegrove.com.

Okay.

Awesome. And it's a great place. So, Kevin and Morgan, thank you guys for being guests. And I thought it was kind of cool because the way this worked out is I just got off stage of my keynote presentation and like, hey, you want to come up to the suite and let's do an episode episode. And we were all hanging out. Now we're all going to go to dinner. And so this was just sitting down with a bunch of marketing people talking about some pretty life changing sort of ideas. So to all of our listeners, post on ilovemarketing.com even though Dee never reads them and the Facebook and here's the thing too, I want to he does read them. I'm kidding. We have this, this Facebook plugin that has been kind of giving us trouble. And so by the time you hear this, there might be a new one on there and all of the past Facebook comments might be gone because Facebook owns them. And if you switch out a plugin, I think it makes the other ones disappear. But we're trying to figure out the best way for you to comment. If you do need to send GIFs though, send them to me.

The gift dispatching set up and since.

I love marketing is free. I'd like you to think about what has this actually been worth to you and you've made money then? I mean the only decent thing to any person with integrity is to simply send a check. You can find the best address at the bottom of joepolish.com which my office address is listed there. But in all seriousness, if you have actually find I Love Marketing to be awesome and you do want to make a contribution, make a checkout to the Make a Wish foundation and send a check and we'll forward it directly to make a wish because we do help them. And you know, we're sharing these ideas because we want you, the entrepreneur, the innovator, the one that's providing jobs in the world and making stuff happen and create value to have a much better life and to make money. And so that's why we're here and that's why we do this. So thank you for listening and we will talk to you next time. Indeed, you have the last word.

See everybody.