The One About Making Better Offers - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #95

I'm dean jackson. He's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey, everybody. It's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish together again.

Yep. This is one of these special episodes where we said episode at the same time. Dean. That's gonna sound weird, but really hysteria. What did he want to do this episode on? And he's like, let me think about it. And then he lets me know at the last minute.

So let me ask you a question, Joe. Let me ask you one question just to put a little context to that. So we've done 95 episodes so far. We've probably spent over those 95 episodes, because sometimes we go over our one hour. We've probably spent, would you say, fair to say, 100 hours on the phone together doing these interviews or in person together, gazing into each other's eyes?

Yes. At least.

Okay, so we've done 100 hours of this. And what you just described, would you say that on any occasion that it is anything different than that?

No, not much.

You make it sound like we've got this production schedule with this editorial, like, arc that we've carefully crafted, and we're sticking to the message at this time. Now we're just. We've gone off the rails.

No, no. See, what I'm saying is that we're gonna pick something you wanted to talk about because you got some new insights on offers and stuff that you told me.

I did.

Which means you've got all this. See, this is your. This is one of your. The. The Dean Jackson methods of trying to make yourself look smarter than me, because you've got, like, probably notes and stuff that. So I.

You know, I don't have any notes. But I'll tell you what, I could. We could go totally improv, you know, if you want to, like, you want to throw out a topic, we could talk about anything you want.

Huh?

That's how I roll.

Let me think about this. How about colors and how good marketing is really about the right selection of colors and branding as it relates to retail point of purchase displays?

I think so, too. And triangle logos versus circle logos and the impact of those.

Exactly. No, let's go with whatever the hell you want to talk about. And I'm game.

You're game?

I'm game.

Oh, game. Okay.

What do you think I said?

Oh, that's so funny. That's cute. So. Yeah.

Okay. Well, go ahead.

We haven't. I was just thinking we haven't really. Have we seen each other since the conference?

I don't.

It's been A whirlwind for both of us, really, since the conference.

Hasn't it's been a little. It's been crazy.

Have you learned anything?

Yeah, I learned not to eat like hors d' oeuvres at the Victoria's Secrets, you know, fashion show party that has, you know, any sort of raw fish in it. So I was eating like tuna tartare. And this was just like a couple weeks after the storms. And so that, you know what someone informed me after I had gotten sick while, you know, the Victoria's Secret fashion show was awesome. And so people need to watch my interview with Jeff Maddock, who actually does the Victoria's Secret commercials and stuff, which is.

It's killer marketing.

You can listen to it on itunes, but you got to watch it on ilovemarketing.com so you can actually see the video because Jeff edited this interview. We did it in his studio, you.

Know, it's pretty great.

Yeah. And he starts out with all these. So guys, of course, love it because it starts out with a bunch of Victoria's Secret models and bikinis, like the first couple minutes of it. So if you don't want to, you know, listen to the interview or watch it, you can at least watch the intro because it's actually really cool and shows the quality of his work. But I went to the fashion show, it was awesome. Me and my girlfriend. And I just got sick though, because I ate something that made me sick. And so I believe it had to do with the little hors d' oeuvres and stuff. And someone told me that after a storm, food is probably not as fresh as. Especially things like that. Which made sense. Do I know if that's the case? I have no idea. But that was super cool. And I ended up hanging out there with a couple 25k members. I ended up canceling a speech I was going to give at one of Brendan Bouchard's event, which was unfortunate because I didn't feel well. But, you know, then I then the following Monday went to LA and had dinner with Richard Branson and Pamela Anderson was there. Natalie Imbruglia, the singer, who I.

Who I know.

And we're going to be doing some stuff together related to this unfortunate condition called fistula, which women in Africa and other parts of the world have. And Natalie is like, you know, the spokesperson for that. So it was really good because we're gonna have a discussion on how we can really create some education based stuff related to helping women with Fistula and lots of stuff. I mean, you've been what you've been doing. So what have I learned? Oh, my God.

Want to hear the illustrative? As our friend Tim would say? I was thinking about your tuna tartare experience and how ultimately we were going to talk about offers. And the interesting thing is you were probably more interested in Pepto Bismol after you had the tuna tartare than you were preemptively before you had it, wouldn't you say?

Exactly. Exactly.

So much of a good offer is being there at the right time.

Totally.

While you're in pain and urgency.

Yeah. Being sick just sucks. But, you know, I. Fortunately, it could have been worse, you know, and one thing also, too, is just seeing the devastation of the storm in New York and New Jersey was just really, really interesting. And since so many of our clients are people in the restoration business, you know, it's. They're the ones that actually clean it up and fix things up and repair stuff. So it was. That was. That was a pretty interesting, interesting trip. But your whole point of timing is everything. When somebody needs something, they need it and their reception.

You probably would have paid more for it after than before.

Yes, of course.

But the fact is, you know, and this is kind of like, you know, it really does tie in together, though, because what I did want to talk about, what I suggested we talk about today, is talking about offers making better offers. And so much of that is offering something that somebody actually wants, you know? Yeah. There's like, it's such an amplifier if somebody really wants or needs something and you're there at the right time, you know?

Yeah. So part of it is, you know, want and desire is what you almost have to get out of your own head. Because when someone is so close. One of the hardest things for me in the beginning was to understand that I am not my own customer. And what I respond to and what I desire could have absolutely nothing to do with what another human being wants or desires. And how do you get out of your own egoic mind and understand how to.

That's a good word. Egoic. That's the first time that's ever been. It's like a short form. Egotistic.

Just read any Eckhart Tolle book and you can find egoic.

Egoic. I like that.

Yeah. So part of it is realizing that you are not your own customer. So what you want and what you think people need and what you desire is your perception. That may have nothing to do with someone else's perception or reality. And so, you know, being effective at constructing Offers. And constructing marketing that works is literally the ability to understand the mindset of the person that you're trying to sell and not try to, you know, base it on your wants and desires. And that's difficult, very difficult for most people. And people that don't put their ego to the side and realize that, you know, I may hate country music, but there's lots of other people that love country music or whatever it is you're gonna have a hard time selling, and you're gonna be frustrated because there's a lot of people that just think what they created. And it's the inventor's dilemma where they invent something that they think is really awesome. But enough people don't think it's awesome enough to give them money. And there's some people that will make offers and they'll go and they'll ask people, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? And everyone that they ask happens to be a friend, and they don't want to make them feel bad. And they'll say, oh, yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. And. And the real thing, if you're going to present something is not I like it, or that sounds really neat, or that's really great. The real thing is, how do I get one? Can I give you money for this?

Right, yeah.

So as we talk about this, I really would like you to give your perspective on that, because more than anything, as our friend Dan Sullivan says, test ideas on check writers.

That's absolutely right. And here's the thing is that I think there's something valuable about the way Dan says that, and something that is kind of like, I take that to be that, yes, you should test your ideas on Czech writers, but you should also work out your ideas on the largest Czech writers. You know, I think that if you can really understand what the result that what you're offering is going to get for somebody. You know, we talked in. In at length about this idea of, you know, what would you do if you only got paid if your client gets a result? And that result can be a monetary result. It can be a quantifiable amount. It can be an emotional result. It can be something that they're. They're measuring in terms of the way they're going to describe what it is they get from what it is that you do. And I think that the very best way to really understand what's the best offer that you can make is to start with what's the most comprehensive offer that you could Make. What's the. What's the thing that that's going to really solve the result for people, you know, and often that's different than what you're ultimately selling. But you're going to learn so much from that thought process I've been doing. And you know, we should talk about this because you and I are doing in January a very special event where people are going to come and get to spend three days with you and I going really deep into the before, during and after and applying the eight profit activators. And this is going to be a cool experience to go through this kind of thinking in a small group with you and I. And we're going to do that at your office, aren't we? Is that the. What we've decided?

Yep, we're doing it at my office on. When is that? We're doing that on the 10th, 11th and 12th.

The 10th, 11th and12th of January and.

Saturday of January 10, 11th and 12th at my office.

Perfect.

At the beautiful Piranha Marketing headquarters, which is World headquarters.

Piranha Marketing. World headquarters, yeah.

All kinds of famous people come in and out of all the time.

That is true, actually. I've seen them and I've. Yeah. So that being said, this is the, this is the insights that I've been having because I've done it a couple of these events since we did the conference just with small people. 10. 10 people. 10, 10 to 12 people. And this process of going through and really figuring out what's the best offer that you can provide for somebody. You know, I start this whole process and this is what you and I will do with people is starting the process of understanding who it is and that your single target market is. Because that's always where we start in profit activator number one. And then thinking about what would be a dream come true for them, coupled with asking that question, what would you do if you only got paid when you get the result? And it's so funny to see that kind of thinking process when, you know, most of the time people want to start out, they get their target market and then they want to start with, well, what's the ad that we can do? You know, how we going to compel them to call us kind of thing. How are we going to convince them to do business with us? And I've seen it happen again and again. Now that the immediate thing that people do, as soon as you ask them the question, what would you do if you were only going to get paid? If they get a result, they Start immediately thinking from the place they're already at. They start thinking about it. And as with the constraints of what they already do, if they have a $17 ebook that they sell, they start thinking about it in terms of that they start thinking about, you know, if they've got a DVD program, that's how they start thinking about it. Or whatever their. Whatever their process, the way they do it now, that's where they start. Rather than eliminating those constraints and really understanding what the result is about without those constraints, you know, that's. Even if you are ultimately going to limit yourself to doing whatever it is that you do right now, thinking outside the box, thinking like that is a different. Is a different process. Yeah. It helps you really understand what the best offer is, you know, what's actually going to get the result for people. Okay, well, I was amazed.

Say that again.

I was going to say there's a couple of things I'm always amazed by, but I'd love to hear what you.

Were going to say now. So, you know, so how does someone get out of their own comfort zone, out of their own frame of reference? I mean, of course I have my own ways of doing it. And what I've learned, though is that, you know, I'm a pretty radical.

I.

Guess, risk taker, not stupid risk taker, but I mean, I. I'm willing to do, you know, pretty crazy stuff in order to, you know, test out campaigns, things that most of my friends and colleagues would not do. You know, for instance, I just, you know, like I'm doing a big campaign to help Tim Ferriss with his new book, Four Hour Chef. And, you know, I'm creating this campaign that, you know, is going to benefit Tim greatly and the sales of his book greatly. But at the same time, it's, you know, it's something that most people simply would not do, you know, for the, you know, just, you know, giving away a Fisker as a contest prize. You know, I do all kinds of weird stuff that requires, you know, things that could fall flat if they don't work and could cost tremendous amount of money. And so I have to be very careful to suggest certain things because I know a lot of people, it's just not within their, you know, financial means or they're within their, you know, comfort zone or whatever. And at the same time, you have to, you know, it's like the Einstein thing, you know, the same level of thinking that created the problem is not the same level of thinking needed to solve it. And, you know, the skills that get, you out of Egypt are not the same skills that get you to the promised land. So, you know, the offer that got you to where you're at now is not the offer that's going to get you to the. To the promised land. The dream come true experience.

That's true. Yeah.

You know, the thinking that created your current business, your current product, your current service is not the same offer, product or service needed to have a complete breakthrough. And, you know, we're always talking about, even take our break, breakthrough blueprint and stuff and all of the things that we do in terms of breakthroughs. That line, in order to have a breakthrough, you got to break something. Therefore, creative destruction is called creative destruction for a reason. You would like to think and hope and fantasize that you can creatively advance your way through life without having to interrupt everything. And it's always going to be nice and easy and you're not going to have to destroy anything. Because, you know, destruction might be a negative word for some people, but in a lot of ways, you know, you, you need to think a lot of times that is the only path through, you know, through a wall is to break through it. You know, not jump over, not go around it, but, you know, to bust through it. And so going back to my question, after all that rambling, you know, what do you say to, you know, to that? I mean, how would you make that recommendation for someone to get out of their own head?

Well, I think that the thing that is the beginning of it is truly to get out of your head, like you're saying, and get into your prospect's head to get. To take on their desires, to truly understand what would be a dream come true for them. And if you're thinking about that, you know, if you could just take everything that, you know, because, you know, you see it so often, Joe, we see people who have this incredible knowledge. They have a roadmap, they have a recipe, like our friend Dean Graziosi would say, for to create something that's going to solve a problem or create a result for somebody. And the really most valuable thing that you could do is to really take on the mindset of your prospect, of your target audience and think about what you could do for somebody if they would let them, and to actually, in some cases, actually do that for them. You know, there's nothing you can. You're not going to learn anything in a more powerful way than actually getting in there and getting a result for somebody. You know, and if you could actually get in and do it and get the result for somebody, you're going to learn so much about the psychology of what's going on in their head. You know, as you're getting that result for them, you're going to learn about your ability to actually get the results. You're going to learn what the critical things are for getting that result. And that's going to make it so that when you get to package up and condense into whatever your ultimate product is or however what the delivery device is going to be for getting that result, it's going to make it better for, for everybody. You know, so often people start and they think at the biggest, you know, the broadest thing, like they're looking for making offers that are going to get a half a percent conversion or a 1% conversion, you know, when you start thinking like that. And what I'm talking about is what, what if you really took, you know, a personal interest in a smaller group of them and you could get a 20% conversion rate or, you know, a 50% conversion rate, because some the people really want the effort. They want the result. You know, there has, there's no, there's no question about that. And nothing's going to teach you more about the, what's required to get that result, where the blocks are to getting that result and what the value of that result is than actually getting in there and doing it for people, you know. Right.

Well, so for instance, what if someone says, well, yeah, you know, you guys are talking about, you know, these ideas and, you know, it's easy for you because your business allows you to consult with people and stuff. But, you know, I sell cars or I have, you know, a dry cleaning service or, you know, pick a category. I mean, you've heard it a million times. My business is different. You know, the number one, it really is.

Everybody's business is different. And, you know, you start to think about the, the thing that, what I'm learning as I'm spending time with lots of different types of businesses now, really applying the eight profit activators and applying these offers because there's nothing more powerful than a really good offer. And so I look at, well, let's talk about our friend Jeff Wild Things Seafood. The offer of free fish is a pretty killer offer. You know, it's pretty like there's no. It's compelling on its own. You don't really need to embellish it up. You know, I mean, you say those words and it's pretty crystal clear that there's a benefit here. You know, it's. And to start thinking that way, knowing that if he's willing to give somebody $30 of free fish, that really his cost on that is, you know, 10, 11, $12. That's a pretty good cost of acquisition, you know, for getting somebody to try something the first time. That's a pretty good offer. Especially when you understand the dynamics of the lifetime value of somebody, you know, and what they could do and a during unit that's going to focus on, you know, the strategic objectives of getting them to order again and order more and to continue ordering, nurturing a lifetime relationship with them. It makes so much sense, you know. Well, rather than trying to convince somebody, you know, it gets back to this whole thing that a compelling offer is 10 times or more more powerful than a convincing argument. Let's say that he wasn't willing to do that. You know, let's just reverse engineer this. You know, if you reverse engineer this and say, no, I'm not willing to give away free fish, then where do you go from there? What's the thinking that you would have to do? You would have to convince somebody that this is going to be a smooth process, that you're going to like the fish, that it's good. You got to convince them to go there. There's a lot of friction in that, right?

And it is about removing the friction. I mean, that's always a good point of reference. I've always loved this line. I used to use it in seminars when I used to use overhead projectors. And it said the best offer is when the perceived value is greater than the price. And if you can actually present an offer that the perceived value is huge and the price is free, I mean, how much more compelling does it get than that? And see, the thing is, my business is different going back to that. Well, I cannot tell you for 20 years now the free room of carpet cleaning offer that I have taught thousands of cleaners that has generated hundreds of millions of dollars in sales, you know, in terms of just new clients that never would have been a, you know, reach through, you know, a discounted price as an example. But like free. There are still dumb, ignorant and stubborn people out there in that industry that will like, say, well, I'm never going to give away my services for free. That's so stupid. And why would I ever do that? And they will never take the time to understand. For one, you're not just going out and giving away free services so you can go broke. You're making a very compelling, non threatening offer to people to put your money.

Where Your mouth is.

And say, I am so willing to prove to you that what I do is awesome. That, you know, you will actually, you know, you will actually probably want to hire me and do business with me to get additional cleaning done and to make it completely risk free for you. Let me test it out. And of course, I did this all myself. I mean, before I ever sold a marketing program or any, you know, ever, you know, took money from anyone teaching them that sort of strategy, I did it, improved it myself, and I took a small, you know, cleaning company and increase the revenue by five times in a matter of six months just. Just by changing the. The offer in the way I was communicating. I mean, I completely, you know, did this my. Myself. Everything that I ever taught cleaners, I did myself before I ever taught it.

Yeah.

And. But my point is, is that people, you know, will resist proof and they will resist results that other people are having because they can't get out of their own. The shit in their own head, you know, they can't get out of their own way. And like Jeff, you know, with Wild Things Seafood, you know, any person in that business, and there are literally, you take people that sell the restaurants, you take people that are distributors, you take grocery stores. I mean, you take anyone that's in the food industry, anyone, restaurants could. Could even do it. Not just the distributors that sell to restaurants. Not, you know, I mean, this is business to businesses. You know, there are thousands of people that are listening to this that could absolutely apply this concept just in that particular. I mean, there's all kinds of different ways you can spin an incredible, compelling offer. But let's just take the free seafood one as an example that they can, you know, make that sort of offer that simply won't, because they can't. Well, I. It's never been done that way. Can't do it. And that's where, you know, when I was saying earlier about taking risks, you know, part of it I learned early on. I don't even know where I. Where I read this from or who I first heard it from, but it's like something along the lines of, if you want to be successful, you know, look at what everyone else is doing and do the complete opposite. You know, don't follow conventional wisdom and that sort of stuff. And, you know, as crazy as that sounds, it's really probably some of the greatest advice that I ever took seriously when I was starting out, because up to the point of where I was not succeeding in my business, where I was just barely surviving, it was because I was looking at what everyone else was doing and trying to model everyone else, from the pricing, from the level of services to way to, you know, just everything from doing quotes and doing estimates. You know, in the cleaning industry, giving away a free estimate. Everyone gave away a free estimate. I needed to invent a different offer, so I came up with a free room of carpet cleaning and a carpet audit. And I had an educational, you know, system that I developed, but I wasn't even sophisticated enough at the time to even call it an educational system on how to uniquely package my services. You know, I didn't use that language. I was just like, what the hell?

Right? Yeah, yeah.

It's like, okay, free room of carpet cleaning. You know, I'll come into your house, I'll do.

But there's something so simple about that, too, right? There's something so simple about that offer. You don't have to explain it. I mean, it's a free room of carpet cleaning. It's free fish. If you think about our project, Cyrus, it's a free website. You know, it's a free training program. The whole thing. It's a pretty easy to. Pretty easy to explain.

Yes. And it's so obvious that people miss it. They want some. I mean, there's a lot of people that will listen to something like this and say, oh, these guys are not saying anything new. Okay. The big takeaway from this episode is not that anyone's going to say this, but I'm just, like, grading the scenarios. If someone was going to criticize this and fight it, they'll be like, oh, you know, they're saying give away stuff for free. And it's like, well, yeah, that's. You know, that's one. That's one way. That's one particular offer. But, you know, don't knock it until you try it. I mean, until you actually go out into the marketplace and really test this for yourself, having an opinion about it is irrelevant. You know, I mean, you really got to go up.

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, you know, the interesting thing is that you. I'd say this, that what I've. There's a great way to test offers that's very safe and you're going to feel good about it, is to. Before you start making this offer, your public offer, you might want to make the offer to people who have rejected whatever offer it is that you are using right now. You know, everybody's got this asset of people who have come to their website, opted in in some way and have not yet bought you've compelled them to raise their hand. You've got them in the door in profit activator number two. And you have yet to educate and motivate them to meet you. So you've got this, you know, group of people. We talk about the idea of sending the nine word email. And what was very funny, Joe, I did this for the first time. I was in London last week doing a, one of the breakthrough blueprint events at 12 people in London. And I got this idea because every time I'm doing these events, I'm learning as I see different dynamics here. I had the idea on day one. We went through the whole process of identifying who their target market is, understanding what the dream come true scenario would be. And then at the end of day one, what I had them do was craft a nine word email to revive some of their dead leads, people that they already had in their database. And so I had them do that and actually send out the message that night before they came back for day two. And every single person that sent out that message got responses back, like bigger responses than they've ever gotten to anything that they've ever mailed out. You know, and we had somebody there who, you know, we narrowed it down to what he did. He came in talking about doing, you know, all kinds of SEO stuff and social media stuff and direct response things, all, you know, kind of as a before unit for, for big companies, B2B companies. And we narrowed down what he does is he actually delivers sales leads. That's really what, you know, the, the simplest way to describe what it is that he does. So we crafted a little message for him to send out that said, are you still looking for sales leads? Ed sent that out to his prospects. We had somebody else that was in financial advising. We sent out a message to his prospects that said, are you still looking for high yield annuities? And then we had somebody who does wedding books, wedding bands, and we sent out a message, are you still looking for a live band for your wedding? Somebody did weight loss and sent out are you still looking to lose weight? Now he sent out to 300 people and had almost a 20% response rate to are you still looking to lose weight? People were emailing back and telling all of the stories about, you know, what they're trying to accomplish. And it was, it was amazing that no, every, we had so many different industries there, but every single one of them was a, was a home run. You know, they got an incredible response. Now what we did the next day was now make the very Best offer that you could imagine to these people. You know, start thinking about creating a little. Almost like a. A test pilot group, you know, where you're experimenting with delivering the result first and how easy it is to get people to take you up on that offer, you know, because part of the thing is you really have to convince yourself that it's. That it's going to work, you know? Well, people have a fear of making an offer like that and exposing it publicly without working out all the kinks, and I don't blame them. I agree. And I think that this is the best way to really refine and hone your best offer and your ability to deliver on that result.

Yeah, I was going to say something, but I can't get a word in edwise.

I know, I just ramble.

Yeah. Why are you bulldozing over on me like this when I'm trying to.

I just get so excited about it. Joe.

You know, the thing about. Take Apple Computers, which is no longer Apple Computers, it's just Apple. And you take the certain ways that people will. Certain companies will survey and they will try to determine what their clients want. And what I always think is kind of amusing about Apple is they will innovate all kinds of interesting technology and hardware and whatnot. And, you know, they don't really ask their clients in advance for their opinion. They just create something super cool and present it. And people, you know, in a rabid, you know, sort of behavioral way, just buy it up. And I wanted to discuss when it's useful to ask your customers, your clients, your prospects, people that buy from you, people that haven't what it is they want versus just presenting it and putting it out there. Because I have some opinions on that and I know you do too. And part of it has a lot to do with credibility, believability, positioning, and supply and demand as a few of the things that you want to get in your favor. When you have gravity on your side, you don't need to push things kind of roll to you.

Oh, absolutely.

Until you position yourself, until you do enough stuff in the marketplace. And this could be on a very low level, too. Have you ever seen the movie Jiro Dreams of Sushi?

No. Okay.

Well, I don't know if you pronounce it hero or jiro or whatever, but it's Jiro Dreams of Sushi. This. You got to see this movie. Tim Ferriss even flew to Japan to have, you know, sushi with his. This guy's son. This is like they made this documentary and I would Encourage everyone. I don't care what business you're in or if you think it doesn't apply to you. This is totally about someone who takes what their, their business is, their craft, their skill very, very seriously. He's like, you know, the top sushi chef in Japan and he's 85 years old. He's been making sushi for like 75 years. I mean he started when he was like 10 or something. And wow, this guy every day just put so much work and effort to it. And he dreams about. They actually came up with the title for the movie because in one part of the movie he's talking about how he dreams of sushi. I mean he loves it. This is his life. And it takes, I mean, the waiting list to get in this place. It's this tiny little place in what looks like kind of not even a high end sort of center. It's kind of a weird location. And the waiting list is very long. I mean now since that movie, God knows it could be a year waiting list and people fly in from all over the world, just have sushi with this guy and he doesn't need a compelling offer. I mean, he's built up a reputation. I mean people will do anything, no matter how rich or famous they are. You're not going to buy your way into this place, right? I'm sure some people could, but he's got. But you just got to see the movie. And you contrast someone like that who just is so good, so skilled versus some restaurant that's sitting empty because of what it is they're offering. And it's. He doesn't need to run ads or come up with great marketing. His marketing is literally his reputation. It's his years of creating this and, and now this documentary is probably the greatest marketing on the planet. But they don't even need it. They didn't need the documentary. The documentary is a byproduct of being so damn good that someone wants to write about you and do something about you. So part of this whole constructing the right offer. I want to get your perspective on that because I think where a lot of people confuse this marketing is they think marketing is a shortcut for how to get by with shitty services or shitty products.

It's not.

In a lot of ways it does. And there's evidence of that. Everyone can see a restaurant that doesn't have the greatest food in the world, but has good marketing that can still get a lot of business. Now it's getting less and less with things like Yelp and Reviews for people that do crappy stuff to survive and stay around. However they're always going to be there. There's always going to be the worst food in the world at a stadium. If there's no other options available, people are still going to buy it. So there's always that scenario. But I want to get your. Yeah, I just want to get your perspectives on some of the things I was rambling about.

Well, I think that there's a lot to be said for actually being able to deliver the best result. You know, like when you think about that, that there's something about that, that this guy is a sushi artist. He's a sushi master, right? That there, it's the very best sushi probably that you can imagine. And there's something about that I want to look at. I'm going to go off on a little tangent here. Imagine that. Very like it's almost like role reversal here today, right? So I'm going to go off on a little tangent about something about that because here's a guy who has discovered what his one thing is, what the thing that fascinates and motivates him. And for 75 years he's dreamed of sushi. And there's something I think elegant about that. I think that I see this sometimes. I see people who come to the small group events who they really do love what it is that they do, but they feel like an incredible peer pressure to expand beyond that to get out of what they do to really create a business that works without them. And I want to just make it okay for people who are artists like that, people who really like to do what it is that they do to do it, but to do it at the highest possible levels. You know, there's. That's not an unusual situation that, that sushi gu. You're saying that's in Japan? I know of at least two other places. There's one in, in New York called Momofuku which is. Has only 14 places at the counter, can only seat 14 people. But you can only reserve two weeks ahead of time. So if you wanted to come for. They only have two seatings, lunch or dinner. It's a $150 lunch or a $350 dinner I think is the pricing model. And you eat what he prepares. There's no menu type of thing. You come and you're having the experience. It's a two hour lunch or a three hour dinner. And you have to go on the website at 10am exactly two weeks ahead of when you want to go to the restaurant and it's been sold out completely for two or three years and will continue to be like that, you know, because it's the very best experience. It's a master at work. There's another one in Beverly Hills. Same, same type of thing. I think they have 15 or 16 spots. And in this one, and it's the same general idea, it's $500, and he only does dinner. And you reserve ahead of time and you eat what he prepares. You're coming to eat with a master. And so, you know, you think about that and there could be something in the way that you actually deliver the result that is inherently good marketing, you know.

Well, you know, one of the things that I want to kind of speak to about just if you're going to do something a certain way, like you talked about being an artist, like in, you know, Jiro Dreams of sushi. They don't do appetizers. I mean, and it's the most simplest sushi. It's not crazy rolls or whatever. It's. I mean, I'm telling everyone, you really need to watch this movie. You can get it on Netflix. I mean, it's just amazing reviews.

Let's put up a link. We'll put up a link to a trailer about it or something.

Okay, good, good. There's this really great life lessons about it, but there's something about the simplicity of it. And just there is something about the simplicity of the free room of carpet cleaning or free fridge. I mean, if it's complicated, you cannot confuse people into buying. You cannot have these. The only time where really confusing or overwhelming offers actually work are in like, in sort of like a seminar setting where someone's just piling on, you know, bonus after bonus after bonus, or, you know, Black Friday, where it's just like complete chaos or like an auction mentality where people are competing and there's like a frenzied state or, you know, and you'll see that in the stock market. You'll see. You'll see that in a lot of environments where there's like this mass complexity and confusion and it still seems to work, you know, but in the, you know, if you want something consistent, you know, unless you can continually manufacture a frenzy, you know, you're better off just coming up with a really damn good, simple offer that, you know, creates results in advance and, you know, get you to think outside of your normal world. If we could just give everyone what those offers would be, there'd be nothing unique about it. Part of a unique selling proposition is by its very nature, it is unique. It's not a universal selling proposition. And the challenge that people have is they all have universal offers. Car companies sell things the same way as the other car person. You go into a retail store and, you know, they ask you, how can I help you? They don't ask you, oh, is this your first visit to Nordstrom's? You know, I mean, and so, you know, if you want to be different, if you want to be in a different place, a different level, a different success, you know, it really is in your best interest to think this through and realize that, you know, if it was so damn easy for anyone to just say, oh, here's what you should do, here's what you know, then everyone would be doing it. And the things that are the most simplistic, like, you know, a free blank, you know, if you can do that and make that offer, but get the other stuff right. It's not just about free fish. I mean, if anyone that was in the food business said free whatever, but then they didn't have a presentation in place, they didn't have copy to support it. They didn't have plan for lifetime value of a client, they didn't have a drip system, you know, there's others. The offer is the bait. You know, you got it. But if the fish is going to bite on the hook, you have to be prepared to reel them in with the right line, with the right hook, with the right tempo, with the right pressure, with the right everything to not lose the fish. And so the same thing goes with whatever offer you're constructing. It needs to definitely be compelling and it needs to take people to where they want to go and preferably in a way that they're blown away from, because not only will you attract them as a client, a customer, but they will tell other people about it. And then there comes the leverage of the orchestrating referrals.

And that, you know, just like I was sharing, going with the people that you already have, you've already generated the leads, you've already spent the money, you've already spent whatever it is. If you've been doing, you know, a Google AdWords campaign or print ads or postcards or Facebook ads, and you've done generated leads of people who haven't bought. This is the lowest risk way of starting testing an offer is find the people who are just responsive, which just sending out a simple email that asks them, are you still looking for the result? I mean, that's really what it is. That we're. What we're talking about here. And making a very, very controlled offer to that group of people just to test out your three things. You test out your best offer, you know. Well, yeah, from that.

Yeah, we had that example at our conference where that. I can't remember that guy's name, but he actually, you know, mailed out a mailing the evening of our conference and did $100,000 plus plus in sales to people who had not bought from him. And then Jimmy Harding at our conference, he's in my 25k group, he actually created a version of the 9 word email and sent it out to people that had not joined a program that he wanted to sell. And he sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of stuff from just a simple email to people that are already on his list that had not bought. And when we do our event, like the January one, we're gonna actually, you know, the reason to come to an event like that is we won't just talk about what the offers are. We're gonna have people construct the offers there in the room and we're gonna have.

Right. And that's the. That's the.

Yeah, that's the best.

You're absolutely right.

Yeah. And we will show, you know, here's what was said, here's what was done, you know, and in that sort of environment, we can really immerse, you know, people into three days of completely, you know, reinventing their before, during, and after units of their business. And that's.

Yes. We could be like Jiro Giro. Jiro. Jiro Joe and Jiro Dean dream of. We dream of marketing.

There's like a lot of good movies out right now, but I, you know, one that I think people should also go see if they think their life is challenging or their marketing is challenging. Go see the life of PI. PI. Yeah. Just. Just watch that movie. It'll. It'll give you some perspective. You will. You will be happy that you're not on a boat with a tiger. Yeah. And so it's. That's. That's an interesting movie. So I think.

Okay.

Should go. Go watch that movie also.

Okay. And.

Yes. What else? You know, there's something else I was doing that I, for the life of me can't remember. Something I recently did that had.

Huh.

Dean, have you been tracking my life? What have I done recently that I've not mentioned?

Let me see. Let me go back to my logs here. No, it wasn't that.

I went some. I can't. I mean.

Anyway.

All right, so let's go back to. I want you to describe when you gave the 10 minute talk in New York. You had this great presentation and that line that you said earlier, I want you to say it again and then I want you to break down, you know, compelling versus convincing.

Okay. Yeah. That a compelling offer is ten times more powerful than a convincing argument. And, you know, I think that the real thing about this is that you see that something that somebody's compelled to do has its own gravity, its own, its own magnetic element to it. People are drawn to it and it's, you know, really by understanding what it is, what is the magnetic element of what it is that you're doing? You know, what is the, what is the biggest benefit of that? You know, how would you describe the result? And that's really going to be a big clue as to what you can do to make your, your offer more compelling, you know, and compelling. The biggest hint about compelling is that it's always driven by self interest. You know, people are very, very interested in things that are an advantage for them. Where things are in their favor, you know, where there's no risk on their part, where they're going to get the benefit to give up anything up front, you know, or get the, get something first. Those kind of things are very, you know, it's, it's really pretty powerful when you can get right in, you know, tap right into that.

Okay, so let's see.

A lot of things. Yeah, I'm just trying to think of some examples of things, you know, where, you know, as soon as you, when you're trying to convince somebody, it's that you're trying to convince them to win them over to your side because you know that the offer is in your favor. You know, that's where you have to convince somebody. This is a new thought that I'm.

Just, well, I want to point out like argument. So, you know, because you said a convincing argument. And so what is happening with a frustrated business owner and where people are not buying enough is they literally have gotten themselves into position where they're constantly having to sell people. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just how it's being done into what it is. Because everything you're doing is selling people. But you want to sell where gravity is in your favor. You want to go with the, not against the grain. And so a convincing argument is really like a real argument in real life in a lot of people. You take the auto industry, I mean, they have screwed themselves in so many ways because it's developed this reputation of mistrust and negotiation and high pressure. And frankly, in my experience of having bought many vehicles, because I've given away a lot of vehicles, so I'm in the position of buying cars on a regular basis. The industry thinks that selling is yelling, and if you just yell, a higher price. And in a lot of ways it's like arguing with prospects, it's arguing with customers. And that's not the route. You know, that's just a tough way to run a business. And when it comes to compelling, you know, Dan Kennedy would always make that analogy of if you're driving by an auto accident, there's a, you know, traffic is slowing down and you're, you know, saying to the idiot in front of you, you know, in your mind, you know, hurry up, you know, what the hell's going on? It's an auto accident. But then as soon as you get into view, you slow down and you stick your head out the window and you're looking at it and gawking at it like everyone else, because you cannot not pay attention. And he's like, compelling is, you know, where you're not able to not pay attention. And if you can create an offer like that, that's powerful. Where to see it all the time is just in gossip. I mean, you know, why people read People magazine and Us magazine and TMZ and National Enquirer, looking at celebrities with every sort of who's having an affair, who's in rehab, all of the different things, all of that is compelling and people pay attention to it. And so in the same ways, there's a lot of lessons in that on how to construct a communication that really pulls people in magnetically.

I just, just for curiosity, I looked up argument, you know, and so the definition, basically an argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something by giving reasons or evidence for accepting a particular conclusion. And when you think about that, you know, when you're making an argument, you're trying to give evidence to, for somebody to accept a particular conclusion, that giving you money is going to get them the result that they want, right? That giving you money is going to get them clean carpets or giving me money for a money making website is going to get them business, right? They're going to get clients to work with that. So I, you know, in order to get them to give me the money, I have to convince them first that that's going to actually happen, right? And if I just, if I know that they would like more clients and I say to somebody Would you like some clients? Here, let me get you some clients that's pretty compelling because that's something that they really want, you know, and I'm not. I'm not trying to convince them that I'm going to be able to get them the clients. And it's a whole different thing when I say, let me go ahead and get you the clients and then you can pay me, you know, there's no convincing involved. They're certainly paying attention because they really want those clients or they really want that carpet cleaned, you know, or they really want the fish. And as soon as you remove any barriers to getting it, it's pretty compelling.

Yeah. You know, like the thing that Halbert would say, you know, if people want what you're selling, the only thing that stands in their way is fear. And remove the fear and they will buy. And so, you know what, we do need to wrap up. And so what I would suggest with.

Everything that, you know, Boy, time flies, doesn't it?

Yes, it does. Yeah. Here's my recommendation. I'd like to hear yours. My recommendation for everyone is to, while this conversation is fresh on your mind, write down on a piece of paper or type up on your computer or your smartphone or whatever sort of recording device, if you have to record it into a memo. Think about it this way. What is it that people really want that relates to what it is that you do to make money? Whatever your product or service is, it doesn't matter if it's physical. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a consultant, a designer, you know, whatever. What is your product or service? What do people want? Not what do they need, but what do they want? You know, people need to eat healthier, need to have protected sex, need to, you know, exercise. But people, you know, don't. They only do what they want to do. You know, it's not about find a need and fill it. It's find a want and provide it. So first off, what do people want? Secondly, can you deliver that want in advance to produce results in advance before they even pay you? And if you think you can't come up with a way that you actually could, don't censor yourself. Just write down whatever crazy idea you can come up with, because as we've said before Dan Sullivan thing, you have to think a lot of silly thoughts in order to get to the great things thoughts sometimes. And so think up stuff. And then, as if your life depended on it, if you had to come up with 10 versions of your Offer, just write them down. Write down 10 crazy, insane, irresistible, compelling, powerful offers. And if you don't, your life ends. I mean, put yourself in that sort of mindset if you had to, to. Because people are like, oh, you know, because, you know, part of it is you want to put positive pressure on yourself to think in ways that you've never thought before.

That was what. Yeah, it's funny that you say that because that's the exact exercise that we did was thinking it was a little bit different, but we, I thought when I was getting them to think about the dream come true and to think about their results and I wanted them to get to the point where what result would you stake your life on Being able to get for somebody? Because it makes you feel like, you know, if you, if you'd be willing to stake your life on it, certainly you'd be willing to stake getting paid on it. Right? I mean, what is the result? If you're, if there's less than a 50% chance that you're going to be able to get the result for somebody, then you probably don't want to make an offer that you're only going to get paid if they get the result.

Yeah, exactly. And part of it is just simply even adding guarantees, making things non threatening. Part of the guarantee is just you're making it non threatening. A lot of times I would have people just say add to the fact that if they're not totally, totally ecstatic of what you're selling, you'll give them all their money back. And all of a sudden that completely changes the way that people respond because people don't want to.

And even that is sort of limiting if you're willing to do that. We had in London one gentleman does training for corporations and stuff, but he guarantees, his whole premise is that he guarantees a 3 to 1 ROI. He guarantees a return on investment. If you don't get at least three to one, I give you back your money. And we had this whole long discussion about the difference between I'll get you the three to one or I'll give you your money back is very different than let me give you the result, the three and you give me one. Because if you can generate, because typically he'll have people that generate a 10, 20 times ROI on what it is. And imagine what that would be for him if he was getting paid one third of the result that he's able to generate.

Yes, yes, exactly.

Crazy. So sometimes those thoughts allow you to charge and make way more than you could possibly make convincing them to give you the money up front, you know?

Yep. So, Dean, you're going to put a really compelling offer up for our event that's taking place January 10th, 11th and 12th up on Ilove marketing dot com.

Absolutely. And the compelling offer, the compelling element of this is that I'm not sure how many spaces we actually have left for it.

No, no. Yeah.

But that's the thing. Yeah, there it is. Is that it's like, come see. Come spend time with Jiro Joe at Girodin, who dream of marketing in a small environment. Yeah.

And learn how to free yourself from the tyranny of normal, lame, pathetic marketing that most people will use and, you know, be a complete and total badass.

Love.

Do it in a small group of people for three days. So, yeah, it'll be good. And watch our interview. My interview, actually, with Jeff Madoff, the guy that does all the Victoria's Secret commercials.

And that's up right now @I love marketing.com.

Yeah. And until next time, I'm done. So anything else? Ne.

That's it. That. See, that was a great episode.

Everyone does their homework and we'll talk to them next time.

Okay, cool.