The One About Why People Wont Buy - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #56

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish. Welcome back. That was good. And Joe Polish, it's been exciting.

So the last episode, Dean, was, you know, you talking with Dan Sullivan, which was really cool. And then we also put up a bonus video of me interviewing Peter Diamantis and his co author Stephen from for their book Abundance. And it's been a pretty exciting things happening@ilovemarketing.com it really is.

I don't think I've really, I don't think I've talked to you really in the last couple of weeks, have I? We were together like nonstop for a week there and then when we left. What happened since then? I know you went.

Well, me and a real dear friend of mine went to Sedona and we were going to originally go to Hawaii, but instead we went to Sedona and did a six day cleanse at our friends Puma and Morgan's retreat center in Sedona, which is called Grace Grove. Visit gracegrove.com if they want to see some of the freaky stuff that I do. And I drank basically juice.

Morgan's a cool guy. That's the first time I met him at 25k and we were together. That's the first time I'd met him.

New member at Genius Network Mastermind. And by the way, let me mention this while we're recording that I've had to relocate to an office in my building because for some reason there's a tree company downstairs that happened to choose this particular hour to be doing my building. And there's noise like everywhere. So if you hear like background like buzzing or whatever, it's because there's people out there with freaking all kinds of different devices blowing leaves everywhere and chopping off branches and nonsense like that. And I'm in this really cool, you know, office area, my own actual personal office, which I hardly spend any time in. That's really kind of tingy because the, you know, the floors have like wood laminate and it's, you know, so it's probably not the most conducive recording environment, but I figured I would just mention that. All right, so going back to. Yeah, went to Sedona, did a six day cleanse. People probably don't want to hear how that works, but you know, it's basically did a liver.

Do you feel clean?

Flush. Do I feel clean?

Do you feel clean?

Of course.

Okay, good.

I always feel clean. I'm a clean eater. I exercise all the time. But yeah, this was crazy. I mean, oh, my God. I mean, you pretty much do everything you can imagine to, you know, clean out your digestive tract. So it's okay. It's pretty. It's pretty crazy. But yeah, you know, it was, it was pretty spectacular. So I'd highly recommend that place, especially for people that have health challenges, digestive problems, you know, fatigue, you know, the works. It's. And they do, they do a really good job there. And so that was at Grace Grove and then just got back from Los Angeles and San Diego again. Went up there with a dear friend of mine. We went to the Paul McCartney Lifetime Achievement Dinner and, you know, saw Paul get this award and everyone was there. You know, Tom Hanks was there and, you know, Richard Branson was there. And, you know, we sat right next to Hugh Hefner and that was interesting. And you know, the Foo Fighters did a, you know, did a remix of the song Jet, which was awesome. And Jamy Perry sang and Tony Bennett and Alicia Keys and oh boy, James Taylor. And it was pretty much a star studded lineup. It was pretty awesome. I'm sure they're gonna show it on VH1 and, you know, so that was cool. And yeah, so me and you spent four days straight, five days straight together. Yeah, no, no, I'm not talking about the time. I'm talking about just simply doing the events. We did our 25k group, which was the biggest 25k group meeting ever. We had 35 people there.

It was awesome.

Peter Diamantis, you know, Skype in and speaking to him. He's actually. Video link. What's that?

Yeah, by video link. Yeah, we're living in the future.

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was crazy. And then we have mark Goodman from futurecrimes.com he actually presented. He's part of the faculty at Singularity University, which is where I first met him, and talked about all the insane things that are happening with cybercrime and Internet hacking and threats and, you know, that scared the hell out of everybody, but at the same time gave people a lot of solutions to things that they never in a million years would probably think about. And that was super cool. And then we did our first Platinum 2.0 meeting with me, you, Tim Poulson, and I mean, the people loved it. We got so many killer comments, feedback videos. And I, you know, I would really like to say to everyone that has even been thinking about our platinum group because we did talk about it a little bit here and we made you know some pretty cool offers and explained it on a couple of the past episodes. You know, you did the interview with Tim, Tim Paulson, who I do it with, who also is my co author of my Nightingale Conant program. And just, you know, everyone that was there, I didn't hear. Not only like, this was good. I mean, everyone that I spoke to there was just like, this was the most unbelievable event. And so people were stoked. And so I actually want to put a. I want to put a special recording that I did several years ago as kind of a bonus on the ilovemarketing.com site. And I'll ask you, Dean, to put that up for me and maybe put it up along with this episode, underneath it or something, wherever you decide to put it on the other. But it's called Barriers to Success. And you know, several years ago, actually, my dear friend Dan Sullivan, he. Which also spoke at this Platinum meeting.

Yeah, we had a great. Yeah, we had a great time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we had some really, really killer presentations there. And you know, Dan actually did this thing for all these objections he's heard with why people would not sign up for Strategic Coach. And it was called Going Against Gravity because, you know, Dan's whole premise is like, well, you know, a lot of times in order to be successful, you go against gravity, you go against that.

Which seems to be pulling you back, holding you down.

And he really covers some great kind of psychological objections that people have for bettering their future. And so I've listened to all his different Going Against Gravity recordings that he's done on a variety of different topics, from taking time off to using certain types of entrepreneurial tools and habits and thinking processes to flat out people saying, well, I can't join Strategic Coach because of this, this, and this. And several years ago, I sent out a letter to 100 people that I thought would give me really good feedback that had attended one of my conferences, that I had several hundred people at it. And I actually pitched Platinum. This is before Platinum 2.0, which now applies to pretty much everyone. But this is for people that were just in the cleaning in restoration industry. And I sent a letter, FedEx with $100 bill attached saying, you know, I don't want you to just tell me what you think I want to hear. Like, this is not just a normal survey. I'm literally bribing you with a hundred dollars. Tell me your most honest, real reasons as to why you would not join a program that I feel would change your life, it would change your business. You know, why wouldn't you do it? And so we compiled all these responses and I came up with all the real and all of the psychological barriers that people had for joining Platinum. And I created an audio with like 35 reasons. And I think people would find it really useful to listen to it. And it's not a flat out pitch. I mean, it's not like a total pitch for Platinum. What it is, is, it's like, you know, people's reasons why they wouldn't do join this group and my responses to it. And a lot of my responses were influenced or came directly from a lot of conversations with Dan or out of his Going Against Gravity. But I put my own take on many of them. And of course, many of them are just original ones that came from the feedback I got by bribing people for 100 bucks. But, you know, I was listening to that recording again, I had not listened to it in, you know, a few years, and I was like, wow, this is just as relevant today as it, you know, was back then, if not more.

Right.

And so anyway, that's one thing. And I wanted to just throw that out there. I think everyone will find that kind of interesting. And.

Well, you know what, as I'm listening though, you know, what a great strategy for anybody.

Yeah.

I mean, what you just described there, like, how many times have you ever gotten $100 bill attached to something that came in a FedEx envelope? How many times does that happen to you?

Yeah, well, yeah, the only time it happens to me is when people actually use my own marketing strategy on us. You know, me and you are, you know, we're starting to get lots of mailings and stuff where people proposing things to me and, you know, because they hear us talk about it on. I love marketing, which is great because I love that. I mean, it shows implementation and execution. And, you know, some of the people we've actually started doing some stuff with and other people, you know, it's just not a right fit. But, you know, the point is. Yeah, it's theater.

I gotta give a little shout out to Kevin Deal from Hawaii today.

Why?

Because he's been mailing me letters. So he mails me just these handwritten letters asking little questions or, you know, ask who wanted to know about my. My top three books. And so maybe we could talk about that a little later. But the other day I got one. It was just a little handwritten notice as, hey, Dean, do you like pineapples? Kevin?

That's great. That's great.

It was kind of funny. So I've gotten like, you know, probably four things. So you, you know, you think about this. It's like, here's a, here's a guy who's, you know, mailed, handwritten, mailed four letters, and he shows up on my radar and I know who he is and I remember his name and we're mentioning him on the podcast, you know, so there's something about the impact of getting something in the mail like that, you know.

Totally. And I'm, I'm still a big fan of real snail mail. So many things get missed via email. People glance at emails if they.

Well, you can't send a hundred dollar bill attached to an email, right?

Even if you send that and have.

That same visceral response, no, it sure wouldn't have the same, it would not have the same impact. You're absolutely right. You get a FedEx envelope, there it is, you open it up, and there's a hundred dollars inside. Now, how many people, how many things would there be? How many people are listening right now that would have something that, that would be applicable to, you know, like you're talking about how many people did you send those, those hundred dollar bills to?

100 people.

Well, I mean, so you send it to 100 people. So you spend $10,000 plus the FedEx stuff. So you probably, you know, spend another thousand or fifteen hundred on that. And what happened with the, what did you send a, like, printed survey that they could fill right out with a return envelope that they could mail it back?

You know, I think we put an additional application. I'd actually have to pull the exact letter which, which we, we have, but you know, we send an app, as far as I can remember. What I do though, remember though, is that I didn't want this to be overly pitchy because I really legitimately wanted to hear the reasons because my, you know, my thing was not send a hundred dollar bill with a sales letter. My thing was to send a hundred dollar bill so I can get real, real honest feedback. Because I was wanting to fully understand the mindset of people that didn't say, you know, that didn't buy. And you know, one of the, one of our methods which we've talked about on past, I love marketing episodes because frankly, all of the episodes, we're always talking about psychology. We're always talking about what people to be attracted. How do you attract them? You know, I mean, we're, we're creating master, you know, fishing techniques in the world of business acquisition.

You know, I mean, that's, that's why I wanted to. That's why I wanted to break this one down, because it's so. It's so powerful.

Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that we've talked about on past episodes is it's one thing that, you know, find out why people buy from you, get testimonials. Why do they love you? What, why do they think you're so great? What are all the benefits that they derive from doing business with you? You can learn just as much, if not more from asking people who haven't bought from you, why did they not take you up on the offer? Why is it not resonating with them? What is it that is causing them to not say yes? And one of the things I talk about on the Barriers to Success recording is I talk about there's real barriers and then there's psychological barriers and real barrier. And the example I use is, you know, you're 70 years old, you have chronic arthritis, and you want to play professional basketball. And, you know, that is a real physical barrier, not a psychological one. I mean, the only way you're probably going to play professional basketball is if you own the team, if you're in that particular state. So that's not, you know, a smart career path to go down. A psychological barrier, on the other hand, would be, you know, I don't know how to make any more money, or, you know, I don't have enough time, or I can't take free days, or, you know, these are all psychological things that have more to do with skills and habits and stuff than they have to do with reality. And, you know, the thing is, a lot of, you know, for all of our listeners right now, you know, you have people out there that don't do business with you for legitimate reasons and for psychological reasons that if you knew what they were or how to address them, you would have more buy in. And, and that's the point behind kind of understanding why people buy and why they don't buy. And a lot of the reasons why people don't buy has, until you really get into it, doesn't seem to make any sense at all. But everything makes sense if you spend the time, and sometimes it's not worth spending the time. I want to make it clear that there are certain forms of paralysis by analysis where you can get so caught up in trying to figure out everything that it actually keeps you from taking any sort of action whatsoever. My point, though is if you really get into the mindset of the person that you're trying to sell you have the best advantage ever. Because one of the greatest things that I discovered in marketing is you need to understand as much as possible the mindset of your prospects and your clients and determine why they're buying, why they're not buying. And having that sort of information makes all the difference in the world. So when I sent out that mailing, I was just simply looking for the truth. I was looking for the real reasons to the best that I could get them to express it to me. And as a result of doing that, I not only got incredible feedback, and the whole point was I just spent that 10 grand because I wanted to create that CD, I wanted to create that audio, I wanted to can and clone my communication to people that I felt and still feel to this day would greatly benefit from what it is I was offering. That didn't take me up on it because I felt that, you know, by them and you spent the equivalent, you.

Were willing to spend the equivalent of one, one member for, for the, for the feedback and.

Because it's a thousand dollar a month program, right? Yep, exactly. And so that's what I did and I got that feedback. And I don't know, I mean, sitting here right now, I know it worked in terms of, did it convert people? Yeah, of course it converted people. Because an uneducated person, once I educated them and got them to really think through and I mean, once someone listens to the audio, I mean really, I would recommend. And it sounds like, oh, we're setting you up to listen to a pitch for Platinum. And this wasn't even for the Platinum 2.0 program. I mean, this recording was done several years ago. I think if you listen to it though, you'll learn a great method to actually communicate certain things to your clients. I think you'll actually learn about yourself and some of your.

I always laugh though when you say like, you know, it's so funny because sometimes people make you feel like you should apologize for pitching people. And you know, I take the approach that, listen, we're not charging you anymore to watch our very best pitch in action. We're including that for free. You're getting to see our very best efforts to pitch you on joining us and we're not charging you for that.

Yeah, yeah, you do make a good point. I mean, I tell people that go to seminars where they're occasionally, you know, they're going to go to like a seminar and you know, people are going to be pitching them at a marketing seminar and you'll have people be like, well, you know, I don't want to go to a seminar where they're going to try to tell me something. And my whole thing is like, well, you know, do you want to go to a seminar on how to be a better golfer? But you don't want to see him play golf.

Right. I mean, that's exactly my. That's exactly my point. You know, that's the. That's the whole thing. It's kind of funny.

Yeah. No.

People. People.

Well, see, what's even more funny is I totally kind of address that in the, you know, in the. The audio recording, just in different ways, but not that specific objection like that. But just in general, people have, you know, people for their reasons. Not for mine. Not for yours. You know, every person listening to us, if we're going to try to sell them anything, they're going to, you know, they're going to interpret whatever we say through their own filter. They're going to make decisions through their own lives. You know, sometimes it's a. It's a money obstacle. You know, if you simply don't have the money to buy something, that is a real, you know, physical barrier. But if you do have the money to buy something and you're not buying it, it's a psychological barrier. And the whole thing with going and apologizing for it, part of it is just simply to disarm people. I really want people to listen to the recording. Why? Because, for one, someone may actually say, yeah, this actually does make sense. Joe and Dean are offering something. Although I will say, this recording was not done for our current program. This was done for something else. And the current one is actually a better version of that something else. And so a more recent version of it, a version that at the time didn't include you in it, a version at the time which was really more designed for people in a specific niche. You know, now we have this available to everyone. So, you know, I mean, you know, I want people to listen to it from the standpoint, it might actually help them overcome some of their physical or psychological barriers. Secondly, I think it's just a great way for people to see how I actually, you know, successfully addressed people that I wanted to sell something to and they didn't buy it. And I asked them, why didn't you buy it? So I could get their feedback. And then see, the beauty of that is, who do you think I sent that audio recording to? I sent it to all the people that I sent the $100 mailing to, you know, in order to say, okay, I answered you know, I addressed the question. Right.

Yeah, exactly.

And so all of a sudden, you know, some of those people, like, oh, okay, you know, it makes sense. And, you know, people support what they help to create. And that's.

Did you.

I think Brendan Bouchard, who's, you know, a friend of mine and yours, he's in my 25k group. You know, I think Brendan's actually writing a book around that. But basically, people do support what they help to create. And if you have people that aren't buying from you, ask them, why are you not buying? Why are you buying? I'm thinking about putting together this product, this service, this seminar, this book, this website. What do you think would be cool? Get their feedback. And then once you utilize whatever feedback they give you, you then notify them that, hey, by the way, here's the question you asked me. Here's the feedback you gave me, and I have this thing set up for you now. Would you read it, look at it, buy it, whatever? And all of a sudden, people will. I mean, people support what they helped to create. And so those people that I spent the $100 bill mailed to a hundred people, plus, like you said, the FedEx and everything, it wasn't just 10 grand. It was actually over that. And not just, you know, not even including the time, but what I did was, you know, they helped me create and mold that recording. So that recording literally cost me, you know, financially over $10,000 to put it together. But it was a great, you know, a great.

Did anything surprise you about. Like, was there anything in the responses that people gave you that was, like, a real insight that you. That you got?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was probably. There were several. You know, one thing that always struck me as interesting is, like, people. How many people are like, well, I already got all your stuff, so I don't need anymore. And they really use terminology like that, like, I got all your stuff. You know, it's like if someone was to buy one of your marketing programs, Dean, that you created, say, five years ago, and several years later, you know, you send them an offer, and if you just happen to talk to them and they say something like, yeah, you know, I got your stuff from before, and I haven't used it all. And, you know, Lance Armstrong wrote this book. One of his earlier books was It's not about the Bike.

Not about the Bike. What a great book.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I. When I read that book, I really loved it. And I actually bought, like, a couple hundred copies, and I sent them out to some of my best clients and friends. I just thought it was a really good book and the point behind it. You know, there's another guy at Mervale Spa, which I've been to, you know, many times, who, his name's Wyatt, and he actually does the Equine Experience at Maryville where they actually take horses and you groom horses and you spent, you know, Ivan, we should even put up the video of me actually doing the. The equine experience thing with the horse. That would be funny, but we'll only put that up there if people actually request it. But, you know, Ivan, Ivan spent a few minutes talking with Oprah the first time she went to Maryville, because I was. Was there that day, and I told her to go do the Equine Experience because I thought that was one of the coolest things that they. They did at Merville Spa. And basically he. The guy wrote a book. I think it might even have been written before. Lance Armstrong is one called it's not about the Horse. You know, because the whole thing, it's not about a horse. The horse just happens to be the mechanism of how you experience the process they take you through there. And Lance Armstrong's thing, you know, it's not about the bike. You know, just. Just a great analogy. And, you know, the marketing stuff that we are teaching people, going to seminars, joining a coaching program, it's not about the stuff, you know, especially for like, Platinum, you know, one of the things the stuff does is it, you know, it shows you how, you know, I mean, it defines the game. I mean, in a lot of ways, the book, the course will define the game. Ongoing coaching actually teaches you how to really play the game, how to be consistent with it. And, you know, we can use sport analogies all day long. You know, there's not a professional, you know, person typically not just in sports, but in the entertainment field. You know, from plays to singing to, you know, bands to, you know, athletes that do not have, you know, one or many coaches, support structures, agents, I mean, you name it. People that are helping them continually hone their skills. You know, at least the people that are the best in the world have those sort of individuals. And it constantly surprises me how many people that are entrepreneurs don't avail themselves of the same sort of methods, although they are continuously surrounded by it. And not only do they not avail themselves of it, they don't even think of it. And so one of the. Answer your question. Did anything surprise me? Yeah, you know, you know, lots of people, like, I got all your stuff. They wouldn't say I got some of your stuff. They would literally use terminology like I already got all your stuff. It's like, well, what's all my stuff? If you had all my stuff, you'd frickin be in my office with my million dollar library. You got nothing close to all my stuff. And secondly, even if you had all my stuff, you wouldn't be able to use 100th of all my stuff. And nor should you, because you don't need a thousand tools in your toolbox. You need one or two or three that you really kick ass with and take names. And if you've already got those 1, 2 or 3, 3 best tools, but you're not fully leveraging them or you're not fully maximizing it, then it has nothing to do with the stuff. It has to do with your skills and your habits using it. And so the thing that surprised me the most was just the levels to degrees that people delude themselves into thinking that getting better in business has to do with, you know, well, I, you know, I've got all of the, I've got this, I got a free recorded message set up. So therefore I, I can't go to an event or get any coaching on something on how to better use this or other marketing strategies because I might, you know, I might learn something else and then that's going to completely throw me off and I'll be distracted and I'm not going to be able to, you know, do this. And so I need to wait till the right time is there. And it's just like, and one of the things I say on the recording is, you know, if you're, if you're waiting for the right time, before you can implement something, you're going to be waiting a very long time because the right time never shows up. And I say the, you know, the cliche, you know, the road to someday leads to the town of nowhere, which I've heard many people say, including, you know, your friend Tony Robbins and you know, that sort of stuff. So, you know, yeah, there's a lot of things I discover whenever I ask people why they do something or why they don't. If you really listen, you know, part of the thing was really listening to what your clients say. And there's two types of things that you'll hear, things that you actually will make sense to address, to do something with and to. Obviously, you know, that would apply to not just one person, but many people. And then there's other things that will come where Someone has some individual requests that would make zero sense whatsoever in terms of trying to make it happen in your business or to address it, because it's only for this one person, you know, like, you know, Joe, I really would like you to have, you know, a bubble machine at the conference or something, you know, because I really feel comfortable. There's bubbles flying around and maybe an ant farm in the corner. You know, I mean, of course I'm exaggerating, right? But, you know, we all occasionally have clients that will have, you know, requests that wouldn't make any sense. So I'm not saying you should listen and address every single thing that people tell you, but what you. You should listen for is what are they really saying, really, why are they not buying, and what are their barriers? Because at the end of the day, I really want anyone that buys anything from me to be super happy to feel like we understand them, that we're addressing to the best of our abilities, helping them. And I know we do that because every single person that's ever joined our platinum program that utilizes a smidgen of what it is we're selling not only makes all their money back. Most of them make multiples of their money back. And that's why we have people that have, like, paid, you know, to be in platinum year after year after year after year. And people are like, you know, how could you spend that much money on a program? They're, like, not spending anything pays for itself.

That's one of the things that we talked about at the. At the event. I showed people that the, you know, my concept of escape velocity that, you know, you're thinking about something like, like platinum, where it's $1,000 a month. So people quickly do the math and think, well, that's $12,000. And when we were in the room in January, you know, when you think about it, I asked the people in the room right there is how many of them thought that they had an idea that they got in the room from the exercises that we did that would make them at least $10,000 in the next three months. And there wasn't a person in the room who didn't raise their hand. And so when you look at it, that starting from scratch, if they started in January, they would have paid $1,000 in January, and then they would pay another thousand dollars in February and another thousand dollars in March. So there's $3,000 that they would have paid in the next three months there. And I think that if. If anybody in that room didn't have an idea that immediately was going to get them at least that $3,000 before the, before the end of the three months that it's like that's not the place for them, you know.

Right, right, right.

But most of the people in there, you know, if they, if they apply one thing that we talked about, if they did one thing and made the $10,000 that we were talking about there from, from the moment that you start making that thousand dollars. And a lot of these things we're talking about are things that somebody can apply right away. You know, so there could be, you know, you might only be 1000 or 2000 dol. You're in profit on that. You know, it's where it's paying for itself. That's the way I look at everything. Whether it's an investment in a marketing program, like in actual advertising or postcard mailings or a Facebook ad campaign or a Google AdWords campaign. I look at it and I always chart that escape velocity, chart that. If you look at it, if I'm going to spend $1,000 a month on something, I chart it out by the, of the year, you know, looking at that on a, you know, probably a 20 degree angle going across the year. A thousand, a thousand, a thousand, a thousand. And at the end you've spent 12,000. And where how many months in is it before your extra money is above that line and starts to go exponential? Because, you know, you've multiplied, you've made multiples of what you invested.

Yeah, I mean, we have one person that just sent me a Facebook message that I forwarded over to you that made $15,000 like a week ago from one idea he got from listening to a single episode on I Love Marketing, let alone immersing someone in two days of training and stuff. I mean, that's why in the carpet cleaning industry, by taking people through the process, I've created millionaires, you know, and it's simply because, you know, how much is an idea actually worth?

It was funny because I had somebody email me this week who said they had been a, you know, an I Love marketing fan right from the beginning. And they've been listening all along and can I get a discount on the DVDs? And I sent them back a message. I said, listen, you're asking the wrong question. I said, you know, if you've been listening, if you've been a fan right from the beginning and you haven't gotten an idea that is at least worth a thousand dollars, then the DVDs aren't going to be for you. It's not going to help you if you haven't been able to apply. So we've given them 55 hours of our very best stuff, stuff that we're using right now. Practical, tactical, usable stuff. And just like you said, somebody saying that, you know, they did one idea and made $15,000 just from something that we talked about on the podcast. So I said, you know, you're asking the wrong question. Go do something and create the money for the DVDs from the free stuff that we gave you, you know.

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. There's one of the things I address on there. Does it come with a guarantee? And the way that I address it is, you know, I won't even say it here. I'll actually, I'll just leave that as a cliffhanger. Cliffhanger. You know, people.

Tune in to the next episode.

But no, it's, it's, it's, it's true though. And see like a lot of the things that people come up with. See, one of the greatest things that I loved about doing it, though. It allowed me to actually see how much in my own mind, my own brain comes up with the same bullshit excuses that other human beings come up with as to why not getting off my ass and doing something. And there are times where I will not want to actually do something that's going to take me out of my comfort zone because I'm going to read this book first. I'm going to do this or that. People constantly say they will come to my office. And you've been there many times, Dean. And I've been to your house in both Toronto and in Florida. And we both have pretty expansive libraries. And now I know very few people that have a. Other than maybe Jay Walker, who has this gigantic freaking killer library. The owner of TedMed and founder of Priceline. I've got a pretty awesome entrepreneurial library. I've got a giant library swipe file of, you know, five drawer file cabinets filled with, you know, multi million dollar sales letters. And, you know, I've got massive, you know, thick binders filled with, you know, every single fax back and forth between me and Bill Phillips. Before, you know, email was a thing back in the, you know, late 1990s, you know, on how he built, you know, EAs through all the consulting we did for from 60 million to 200 million. I mean, I've got amazing stuff and people come over here and they'll see all of this. They'll see, you know, I've read over a Thousand books. They'll go into my conference room that has that library just filled with books, and they'll look at all the binders I got in the archive room and all the videos and they're constantly like, why do you go to any seminars? You got all this stuff? You know, my response is always like, well, for one, it's a different sort of learning environment for me. Secondly, it keeps me up, you know, it keeps me in a good state of mind. It keeps me engaged. And I've always loved the saying that school is. School's never out for the pro. And, you know, you don't quit going to school. You just create your own version of really great schools as you become an adult. And, you know, for me, I literally not only attend school by going to Strategic Coach and, you know, doing the things that I do and going to events that I do and hiring certain people, subscribing to certain things that I subscribe to, but I also create my own schools. And that's why, you know, I love marketing in a lot of ways, is kind of like a self created school that me and you use to continually talk about and remind ourselves about the types of marketing strategies.

I mean, but here's the thing too. It's that you and I, this is really just that we're letting other people in on this right now. But you and I have been doing this for years without anybody listening.

Right?

That's the whole. That was the whole idea behind doing the I Love Marketing podcast, is doing it just the way you and I would have conversations in private. You know, we'd talk all the time and talk about ideas and talk about marketing and all this stuff. You know, because we. And we do that with other people. You know, I mean, we've always got these private conversations going on, always to continue growing.

Yeah, yeah. People that have not listened to the very first episodes of I Love Marketing, which I would encourage you to do that. I mean, I think you can pop on any episode of I Love Marketing and learn something no matter where you start. And the original ones, where we actually explained how we started this was, you know, me and Dean were on a phone call and the conversation I had with Dean was like, you know, everything we just talked about, imagine how valuable that would be if other people, you know, heard this, if they actually were able to eavesdrop in on the conversation we just had. And, you know, part of our original strategy, which we've now been very successful with, because right before we started recording, you know, you told me you're like, yep, now the episodes of downloads per day on I Love Marketing, Every single Day is now hitting right around the 2,500 downloads a day mark that people are downloading. I love Marketing. So, I mean, we've got just lot. Let me. Thousands of people are listening to us right now. And, you know, this all started from, hey, you know, what we just talked about with each other was really good stuff. And what if other people heard it and, you know, part of our thing was, let's do it in a way to where you know, even if they never buy anything from us, you know, they'll still find our conversations really, you know, valuable. And, you know, I mean, you know.

I shared this whole. That was so funny because when I shared this At 25K, our conversation about it initially was how cool, you know, not to compare ourselves to Claude Hopkins and Joseph Kennedy and these guys, but to say, like, how great would it be if we had access if Claude Hopkins and Joseph Kennedy were getting together every week and talking about marketing? And here we are 100 years later, we could listen in on that. How cool would that be? You know, that's kind of the conversation that we had when we were talking about, even if we don't sell anything, what if it was just like a hundred years from now, people are listening and they're getting like, the state of the art, the latest stuff that was happening in 2011 and 2012, you know.

Well, see, that's how my ego would allow me to stay historically relevant.

Yeah, exactly. Because when we're cryogenically frozen and we come back 100 years from. From that, we'll be able to, like, pick up right where we left off.

Right, right. You know, as an aside, what you just said, cryogenically, they don't call it frozen, but they call it suspended.

Suspended.

I actually did. That was one of the most interesting marketing consultations I'd ever done, was for the company Alcor, which is in Scottsdale, that actually cryonically suspends people after they die in the hopes that they will bring them back to life later in the future when technology and science would allow someone to do that. And I'm not going to go totally into this right here. I will just suffice it to say that we had this meeting with all the people on the board and we're having dinner and I was introduced to them and it was very weird. I was sitting there thinking about everything that I know about testimonials and offers a sense of urgency and compelling copy, and all of that's important. Education based marketing. But the big, the best idea that I told him, I said, you know, guys, there is so much like public disputes and controversy related to, you know, from the religious and spiritual aspects of what happens to a human body to, you know, the scientific, you know, thinkers of the world. And I said, you know, the very best thing that I would know how to do if you want to promote this is celebrity endorsement. You know, you find someone that really credentializes this and says, this is what I'm doing when. When I die. And that, you know, that's the best marketing technique. But I just had to throw that in there because I heard you use that term that I actually did a consultation for a company that chronically suspends people. What do you think of that?

That's fantastic.

Yes.

The, you know, I want to talk a little bit more about your. The survey that you did and getting the real, you know, getting the real feedback on why people didn't buy that was the primary intention of what you were doing. And I'm gonna let people in on one of the most profound lessons that I've ever learned. And it was in a book by Steve Scott. Do you know who Steve Scott is? You remember?

Yeah, the infomercial guy from.

The infomercial guy. Okay. So there's a book that he wrote years ago called A Millionaire's Notebook. I don't even know whether it's still in print, but if you can find it on Amazon, there might be some. There might be some copies still available. And in there, he's got the entire script from a Lori Davis hair care infomercial. And he breaks it down and talks about his process of how he creates a script. And it's a. So how he basically creates a pitch. And one of the most profound lessons in there was one of the things that he does is he lists every single reason he could possibly think of why somebody would not buy what it is that he's selling. And then individually, he answers those objections. So similar to what you were just, you were just saying that you. You did this. Basically you got real feedback. He goes and makes up, you know, thinks in his mind all the possible reasons why somebody wouldn't. And then he writes his answer to it. And here's what I really learned from that, is he embeds the answer to that objection into the pitch, into the script. So it's not as overt as, well, I've got dry hair, so this won't work for me. And then answering that, you know, overtly, like doing a Q&A sort of section where you're. You're kind of posing the question. What he does is he will answer the question, answer the objection without even bringing up the objection. So he'll say to something, and I'm going from memory on this, but let's say that it is about that, you know, dry hair, my hair is too dry. Or some other people might say, well, my hair is too oily for this. And he'll answer the question he put into the script that Lori Davis hair care is completely ph balanced and will adjust to exactly the dryness or the oiliness of any hair to bring it into perfect balance. So he's essentially answered that objection without overtly bringing it up. And it's an elegant, subtle distinction in the way that it's done. But if you can really get to that and you can answer somebody's silent objection before they even get a chance to bring it up, it's a non issue. Because these are things that are going on in the back of their mind. You know, all of those reasons that you can think of why somebody wouldn't do what it is that you're offering them. All of those things are floating around in their. In their head. And if you can answer. If you can answer those without appearing like it's, you know, overtly a Q and A or. Because most of the time I think that frequently asked questions are really sort of misexecuted and poorly done because they're so clearly and obviously, you know, sort of slanted in their approach. You're out. They're asking completely set up questions, you know, so that you can answer.

Exactly.

You know what I'm saying? So I think that if you take that FAQ or whatever it is that you're trying to do and you more elegantly embed that into the pitch in a subtle way that you're answering that objection, but you're not doing it in a way that it's even posed as an objection. You're talking about it as if it's one of the coolest things about Lori Davis hair care is that it's ph balanced. So if your hair is oily or dry, it completely balances it that you're answering that without it being an objection.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

That is what you're trying to say, isn't it?

So I would say that's huge. No, that's huge.

It is huge. And that's why I really don't want to. I don't want to downplay it. Because that I have that book, that section of the book completely dog eared and gone through, you know where. And it's kind of a, you know, it's kind of a rare book. It's not something that a lot of people have, you know, and, but that one portion of it, I mean this guy Steve Scott has been responsible for some of the greatest infomercial successes ever. And that, that has been a really, really valuable tool in my toolbox here to have access to that. And you know, remember Marty Chouinard's Marketing Analyzer was essentially based on that, those questions and it create a software program that would allow you to fill in the answers and, and stuff like that. But it was essentially based on that.

Yeah, that was called Profit Market Analyzer. I think it was.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So Steve's got a Millionaires Notebook. That's the, that's the book on Amazon.

You know the interesting thing about this too, with Steven Scott as an example, he actually created a whole program around how he successfully did stuff. It was videos of him talking with a group of people about goal setting and how to be successful. As far as I know that it never really took off. I mean he had a lot of success with, with products and different things representing different infomercial. The guys made millions of dollars. And basically it was interesting just watching how certain things resonate with the public. And so if a guy like him was to take all of his methodology and put it into like a video program, you think that oh, then I can successfully sell that too. And I don't think it just ever really took off. And then he got involved with some multi level companies and I remember seeing that one of the bonuses was that actual product that he had not been able to successfully sell.

Really? Wow.

Infomercials. But it's interesting to see how people that have been very smart, very successful repurposed stuff. But it goes to show you that the American public, if you teach them how to actually do what it is you're doing versus just do what it is you're doing to sell a particular product or a service, doesn't mean that it's easy to sell how to stuff. I mean one of the hardest things in the world, a lot of people will come to our vents or something. And I always love saying that everyone always does the arithmetic, but no one does the subtraction where they just count how many people are in the room and they just assume that all these people fell there out of thin air. And we get to keep 100% of the money and the selling of how to advice for those that are in the info business. It's a really interesting sort of business because more than anything, let's say you're selling courses that are printed well, a lot of people think well what are the tools of the trade? Well you write and you print. Well, the tools of the trade are really marketing. The tools in anyone's trade that really gets skilled at is the selling and the marketing of it. Because there are some of the best books in the world that I've ever read that have never become best sellers that the authors made anything from because they're lacking one essential ingredient which is the ability to sell it and market it to other people.

That's so funny because we were talking about that at 25k when Dean we were talking about our friend who did the, did a great program, put all the effort into it, it was ready to go and he said we've got, you know, I've already done all the hard work, 95% of it is already done. All I got to do now is the marketing.

Yes, exactly. You know it's funny as you're sitting here talking to this, I look up on the bookshelf and I see this big thick, thick book in the office where I'm in the seven steps to freedom too by Ben Suarez who I interviewed Ben God over a decade ago for when my genius network interviews were the time called the Joe Polish Superstar audio tape of the month series and basically he has this book and I have it completely dog eared because there's some great stuff in here. You know Gary Halbert actually taught Ben how to, how to write copy and you know Ben built a hundred million dollar a year company with a thousand plus employees and you know just has done a lot of stuff and anyway has a, has an interesting reputation in the, in the business world and basically he has a thing in the beginning of the book like myths about what it's titled. I'm going to go to the very first. It's the 21 myths that will keep you broke and one of the myths and I've read this at seminars before, I think I even read it at an I love marketing meetup group and basically the myth is selling is easy and not that important. And he writes facts. Nothing starts in business until a sale is made. Selling is a difficult task requiring a great deal of skill, knowledge and gut. Salespeople are looked down upon by the public as annoying. The average person who works for a business is unaware that if selling did not take place in the company, he or she would not have a job and food on the table. The sales and marketing entities of the company are always the first to be attacked by politicians, bureaucrats and the media. They are unaware they are attacking a very fragile and critical life support system of the economy. The failure of this system would bring on disastrous consequences beyond the farthest stretch of the imagination for all of us. Selling is such a difficult and unpleasant task that knowledgeable people in the business world place the highest premium on this task. In most cases, 50% of the price you pay for a product goes towards the cost of selling it. Sales resistance from the buying public is so strong that it's impossible to describe. You have to experience it to fully understand it. And now those couple paragraphs are just filled with wisdom. You know, one thing that he says, you know, towards the end is in most cases, over 50% of the price you pay for a product goes towards the cost of selling it. So think about that next time you're in a store and you're looking at batteries and you're looking at all kinds of different things and you're online and you're looking at all of the different things that are being done. Most people that are not marketers don't even factor in that it actually cost money. Even free websites like ilovemarketing.com, all the episodes, we have to pay transcribers, we have to do audio editing, we have to pay a designer to set the stuff up. There's cost involved in everything, even in stuff you give away for free. And I always chuckle at the whole Facebook thing. Free and always will be. When people. We've talked about that on the episode we did on Facebook advertising with Perry Marshall. I mean people, how does Facebook make money? I mean, they sell advertising because they got to do something in order to pay for all of the investors that are hoping to become multi, multimillionaires, which they will as a result of a quote unquote free social network. So everything in your business world is going to have a particular cost. And one of the most expensive is the actual selling it to people. And I think one of the number one reasons that people do not succeed in business, there's all kinds of reasons, from management to all kinds of stuff. I simply would say the number one reason is lack of the ability to market it and sell it. You know, most people do not go out of business because they have too many customers. Not that that doesn't happen, because of course it can and it does. However, you know, I mean, the reverse what I love telling people is like, when you come into one of our programs, you know, one of the problems we want to create for you is management problems because we want you to have so many people wanting to buy your stuff that you have to actually figure out the logistics of how to better deliver on greater demand. But if you don't have the demand, it doesn't matter how good it is. And so now the point is, no reason I wanted to read that was the marketing that we're actually teaching on. I love marketing, actually in many cases makes selling easy and ideally unnecessary because what marketing is the type of marketing we teach. Direct response is selling in advance. And if you have a free recorded message, if you have a video, if you have all of that. So stuff you don't have to go through the grueling task of doing, selling in the traditional sense of, you know, face to face or on the phone or starting from scratch and not having any collateral materials in order to help position you properly before, you know, you actually ask people to give you money. And that is the beauty of this type of marketing and all the strategies. I mean, you know, even we just.

Had this happen today. Just today. You know what I talk about our. Our program for realtors called the getting listings program. Getting listings.com and the sending out postcards to people to an area. So right here in Winter Haven, we've selected a single target market. Lakefront homeowners. There's 2100 lakefront homeowners sending out. So we send out the postcards that offer them the. The February 2012 report on lakefront house prices. So everything is completely matching. It's the compelling offer that would be the very first thing that somebody wants to know. And then we send them out a, you know, educate and motivate them in profit activator 3. We send them out an initial package with a cover letter, with a book on a little booklet called how to sell your house for top dollar fast, a copy of the get top dollar newsletter, and all the info on what's been selling in lakefront properties in the last 12 months. And so we send out this package and Julie gets a call today from somebody who says, yeah, we'd like to list our house. Can you call me this week to come out and do that? Now, she's never talked with him, never had to make any kind of phone call to him. It's just doing the compelling marketing that made selling unnecessary. You know, it's so funny because one of our clients who was doing this Program had two or three of those calls in one week and ended up, you know, sending a video that showed this. These fishermen going down this river at night with a, With a flashlight or a spotlight and they're shining the light and the fish are just jumping into the boat. Have you ever seen that video?

No. No. Actually, yes, I think I have. I think I have seen that video. But you should send it to me again because I'll actually.

I'll put it up. I'll put it up on. I love marketing because it's so. It's such a. That's exactly when you're doing the marketing, right? That's exactly what it feels like is that the fish are just jumping in the boat.

Yep, exactly. And that's.

I get so. I get so psyched about it. It's like so funny. You know, I get, I get psyched about this, this kind of stuff, you know, because I know that like we always talk about, I mean, you, you articulated it, that marketing, you know, makes selling unnecessary.

Yeah. And I, you know, I first heard that line from Denny Hatch, who used to be the editor of Target Marketing magazine. He was. Wrote a great book called Million Dollar Mailings. He's written a bunch of books. He's assembled things on direct marketing quotes and whatnot. And I've interviewed him many years ago and he was doing a presentation and it was selling. Marketing makes selling easy and ideally unnecessary. There you go.

It makes selling easy and ideally unnecessary.

Yeah, yeah. Not in 100% of all cases, but in many cases. I mean, me and you, Dean, and many of the people that have other adopted our, I love marketing, you know, strategies, our plat. You know, I mean, you look at the platinum meeting we just did. I mean, we have all kinds of different business owners representing different, you know, from Jeff, who's in seafood, to, you know, all of the cleaners and restorers, to Chris Frederick, which their stretch to win business to. We, you know, we had people at yoga businesses, Pilates instructors, you know, all kinds.

Realtors.

Yeah, yeah, realtors. Information marketers. You know, we have one client who's in the drug testing business. I mean, you know, a handful of different industries and stuff. And they're people that every day are making sales from people that they physically never even have to talk to. I mean, people call up and say, when can you, you know, do the job? If it's a service business or online marketers just making sales because all of the marketing methods that we teach are being utilized and positioning them so it makes selling unnecessary because Selling, you know, the best way to sell is to people that are, you know, already converted. I mean, I want to preach to the converted in a lot of ways. You know, if someone listens to our. Let me kind of share something which I think kind of funny. And I've always tried to figure out how to come to grips with this because in a lot of ways I wish there was a magic way to get up to speed with rapport with certain people. If someone has listened to every single episode of I Love Marketing as an example up to this one today, you know, you're talking about 55 hours that they have listened to me and you. And if we don't know these people at all, but we meet them for the first time, they know tremendous amounts about us, but we know really nothing about them comparatively. And so part of it though is think of the positioning though. You know, the reason that I'm constantly amazed I deal with certain celebrities. There's been one celebrity who's world famous, been in a bunch of movies and has, you know, hit show on hbo. You know, back and forth emails with this guy, you know, world famous actor and you know, he's kind of short and kurt and kind of a pain in the ass. And I basically sent him a blow off email based on something that I was, you know, going to invite him to because he has a foundation and you know, I raised millions of dollars for foundations like Virgin Unite and Make a Wish and stuff like that that I've done in the past and you know, wanted to actually help this guy because a, you know, person who met him, who's a 25k member actually made an email introduction and you know, the guy, the guy's kind of a jerk. I mean, you know, not, not a full blown yet. But you know, I'm going to have a conversation with this guy, you know, after our phone call here today. And it got me thinking about, you know, people in the celebrity world and I've, you know, I'm certainly, I don't work in Hollywood, but I go to, you know, a lot of events where there's world famous people and I have, you know, lots of clients that are well known business icons. You know, I've done a ton of work with Paul Abdul, you know, bunch of stuff. She's in my 25k group and you know, stuff like that. So I've hung around a bunch of interesting people but nowhere near like if I was an actor or you know, famous, like athlete or something. And from the eyes of a marketer, I am Constantly amazed by the perception that people have of the artificial godlike status of certain celebrities. And what I mean by that is there are people, you know, I was talking to my friend J.R. who, you know, former Make a Wish kid earlier, before this call, and I was talking about how it is amazing to me that there's people that work, you know, mothers, people that work at hospice centers, you know, business, people that do things on a daily basis that are more noble, more interesting, more a lot of things than a lot of, you know, famous actors, celebrities, musicians, artists. And I'm not doing a slam on those industries. What I'm saying is there obviously there are many individuals in all fields that do incredibly awesome things that are amazing. And there's a ton of people that do amazing, awesome things that no one ever sees. And the main reason is because of the media. And when someone is positioned and plastered all over television or magazines or radio or, I mean, you name it, the Internet, you know, have a giant Twitter following, you know, whatever. You know, people tend to think that these people are absolutely incredible because of all of this social proof. Now the lesson behind that is there's a lot of people that don't, that frankly, in my opinion, don't deserve a damn bit of recognition, that get a shitload of it because they're quote unquote famous, that in a lot of ways a lot of them are scoundrels. And there are other people that do amazing things that aren't positioned well at all. But it really is a marketing lesson. I mean, the marketing lesson is it's about positioning, it's about setting things up so by the time someone comes to you, they're pre interested, pre motivated, pre qualified and predisposed to give you money, pay attention to you, watch your movie, you know, do. I mean, whatever it is, it is still simply a marketing thing. And going back to selling, you know, marketing makes selling easy and ideally unnecessary. And there are certain people that if they get the right sort of media or they position themselves, they don't, you know, I mean, look at, you know, look at Jersey Shore. I mean, you know, you don't need to be, you know, a highly intelligent person. Although many people that look stupid on television and have huge shows are not, you know, I mean, some of them are very smart people, although the way they're portrayed may not be, you know, in the best light because of the sound bites and the editing and everything along those lines. But the fact that of the matter is, you know, if you just sit and think about the conversation, we had with Dan Kennedy. Remember we. We interviewed Dan Kennedy. If you've not listened to the. The episode that me and Dean did with Dan Kennedy on I love marketing. Listen to it. He talks about, you know, you start off getting paid for what you do, and then you get paid for who you are. And so you spend a lot of time doing the hooing versus the wedding. And, you know, there's a. There's so much to be learned from just thinking about that, you know, because both me and you, like, for instance, going back to my original thing, and hopefully my tangent here is making sense. If someone listens to 55 hours of me and you, they actually, in their minds, consider me and you a who. Because they've listened to 55 hours of us. And then when they meet us, they have a certain level of knowledge and in many cases, respect. Respect, or, you know, in your case, disrespect. Because most people don't like you because of your personality. You know, you're. You're sort of your corrosive personality that you.

Right, exactly.

My pleasant, non judgmental, non opinionated, you know, I mean, you know what I'm saying here? You know, when they actually meet, you know, us or you or me, you know, there's a certain positioning that exists. Why? Because we put out a podcast and we talk about marketing things, and if people resonate with it, they like it. And then most people of people we meet, you know, treat us differently if they've listened to a bunch of our stuff versus if we ran into someone in a grocery store or ran into someone at a gym who doesn't know who the hell we are.

Right.

So, you know, what does that have to do with your life and your business? It has everything to do with it. And, you know, hopefully that made sense.

That's great.

What are your thoughts on that, Dean?

I think we're, you know, I think you're absolutely right. That's kind of. You want to recap some of the, The. The big takeaways from this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And by the way, where are we at for time? Because we're done. Are we over time?

Yeah.

Oh, I'm sorry. Because I'm just.

No, that's okay. I think it's. I don't.

Because I relocate in this office. I didn't know what the heck time it was.

Okay. We're not gonna. We're not gonna. It's all included. We're not gonna. We're not gonna charge anybody extra for. For the extra six minutes that we've Gone over there, one hour.

Okay.

So there's no charge to the. No charge to the listener for us going over with the awesomeness.

Okay, well, here, just to get it out of my system to recap from my end. And then you're going to put a nice cap on this. It's going to obviously, you know, be awesome. We're going to put up the barriers to success audio recording so you can actually hear the recording that I did, the test that I spent 10 grand on doing, and maybe I'll even put an intro onto that one so that people kind of get it and understand it. Secondly, if you've not watched the episode, the bonus episode we put on with Peter Diamantis and Steven, type in abundancelovemarketing.com Watch that video. It's been getting great feedback. And Peter's going to be here, you know, this week at my 25k meeting. And yeah, if you want to go get a cleanse and colonics and various things, you can go to gracegrove.com and as far as, you know, recap. I mean, the strategy of thinking, you know, to ask your clients, why did they not buy from you, determining what their barriers to success are, their barriers as to why they're not doing business with you. In addressing those barriers in different ways, you can, you know, even create your own version of an audio like, you know, you're going to hear that we post up. And other than that, Dean, you put some cool postcards up from the last episode. I think you should remind people that those are on. I love marketing.

Yeah. Going. That's the thing. If you're listening, if you are just a listener on itunes, there's so much cool stuff that we put up on the actual ilovemarketing.com website in between episodes or along with episodes that it's, you know, worth you going there just to see the stuff. In last week's episode, we talked about the. The idea of more cheese and less whiskers. And I was sharing about a birthday postcard. And so I put up the sample of the. Of the birthday postcard. And then on the inside, in the comments section of that, I outlined the whole process of the. What the landing page, what people saw when they go to the. When they go to the website. So there's some. That's a great resource for you if you do. If you have a local business like Perry says, that has a door that people open to come into, then this would be a strategy that would be very valuable for you. So I'll put up the contact information for the company that does the actual postcards, the digital variable printing and everything for you. So you can use that as a strategy. The other thing from today, I really love that idea that Joe shared with you about really, you know, putting a lot of value on collecting the reasons that people don't buy and using that to create a, you know, a message that overcomes all of those, all those things. And I still, still, I highly recommend reading A Millionaires Notebook by Steve Scott. And you can get that on Amazon. I just saw there's lots of copies there for $0.01 plus 3.99 shipping. So some of the used ones, it's therefore up there for a penny. So gobble those up and as always, go to ilove marketing.com and if you haven't downloaded your breakthrough DNA report, you can do that right there on the site. And there's also a link to where you can get the DVDs of our live event that we did in Phoenix, which would be a valuable part of your marketing library.

Yeah, I mean, for sure. And also we are going to be doing as soon as we can get him scheduled because he is busier as can be right now with his new book, Ivan Mizer, who is the founder of bni. We're going to do a follow up interview. If you've not heard our first interview with him, listen to it. It's on ilovemarketing.com and then we're going to put another bonus up with Laurel Langmire who, you know, did an episode with her for Genius Network. And we're going to put that up there as a bonus and that'll be, you know, popped up there shortly in the next week or two. And beyond that, please make comments on ilovemarketing.com and on it tunes and we appreciate everyone listening and look forward to hearing the success that you're having using our I love marketing methodology. So have a great day and we will talk to you next time.

Bye.