The One Where Joe, Dean And JR Discuss Human Psychology - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #114

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey, everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe.

Polish and our very special guest. Now for the part two and the third time featured by such massive popular demand, the one, the only, the mysterious.

Jr I love you so much. I really do. I'm in a dream. You know what this is? This is Make a Wish all over again. This is what this is.

Well, first off, thank you, and let's catch everyone up to speed of what the heck this is all about. If you did not hear the last episode of I Love Marketing, you must go and listen to it, because this is a follow up. You can listen to this one. It will obviously, I'm sure, operate as a good standalone, but to get the very most out of it, you should listen to that episode. And a few episodes ago, I don't know, Dean, if you remember which episode it was, you interviewed Jarrah while I was on Necker island with Richard Branson. And, you know, it was a. It was a great episode for me because it, you know, made me sound like this amazing, wonderful human being.

And you are.

Thank you. Thank you. And, you know, J.R. tells a story about we met. You know, he's a former make a Wish kid that wanted to meet, you know, J. Abraham, out of all things. And he has just studied and read more books on marketing. Everything from Warren Buffett, I mean, you know, you name it. Just one of the most well studied, well read. And plus, me and Jer have done all kinds of things to help grant wishes for kids that make a wish, to raise lots of money for some good causes and help brilliant marketers and 25k members sell more stuff and make more money. So he's like my confidant, my strategist. And me and you and Jer have spent a lot of time brainstorming and strategizing and discussing marketing. So we figured on the last episode, let's, you know, just interview him and have him on as a guest. And, well, we really interview him is more just JR Just sharing his marketing wisdom. And it was so damn good that this is part two. And yeah, and I know that because.

We left people with a cliffhanger. So jr, why don't you kind of catch people up on the concept we were talking about, and then we'll continue with that because we've got a couple of other killer examples of that particular.

Yeah, in the last episode, we left off talking about almond butter, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Sorta. I'm kidding, by the way.

Before this call, I was saying to Dean, you know, the best way I could ever describe it is what Dean had described at the end of the call was subtle psychology. It's a sort of psychology. And I would. I was going to explain to Dean, like, save it for the call because it'll be good on the call. I was just going to say. And then Dean has these awesome examples from real estate and maybe some others. The best analogy that could ever have for it is Eugene Schwartz would talk about the window, where he'd say, they should see through the window at your product in their life. I'm paraphrasing what he would say, but they say you should see through the window of the product in the individual's life or the customer's life. If they see the words, if they go, what beautiful words you've written, or they see the window, it's dirty. They shouldn't see the what. They should see the product in their life. And the things that Dean is going to. I imagine, is going to talk about here, they're like. You don't even notice that there's marketing. It just works because it's so innate to the human instinct or the human experience or something that an individual is going through or is feeling that they don't even feel that you're selling. I would tell Craig Clemons a lot of times, Craig is actually the one who introduced me to Joe. Thank you, Craig, for the best thing ever.

Hey, wait a second. This is great. Now this is another. I just can't even let that go on because if Craig introduced you to Joe, this is. Oh, I get to take credit for.

This because I already know what you're going to say.

This is fantastic. I won't even go there. It's okay.

No, no, no. Please do it. Because I know an easy way to shoot it. I know an easy way to shoot it down.

Let's just keep going.

Because it does have to do with follow up. You know, Jared's really good at follow up, as have I, so. Because for every introduction you've made, I can point about 10 of them for you.

There we go.

But no, no, no. That being said to not sound like a total.

And the only reason I said wait, wait, wait perfectly to illustrate this example of status.

Right.

It does not sound like it specifically rile you and it happens invisibly to you.

No, no, But I'm saying these words specifically for comic relief, for benefit of all of our clients, because I think one of the joys of this I love marketing podcast is the continual bantering. And if there's not a certain level of emotional friction, it won't be that engaging. For which, of course, on the last episode, I think Jarrah went through like a whole flurry of emotions that you're experiencing right now, Dean.

That's great.

The only last thing I'd say before Dean goes into exactly what I think are such a. The example he's going to give you. I originally heard it from Evan. I didn't even know it came from you, Dean. But now that it came from me, I'm just like, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. And you'll give the example. The only thing I would say when I would talk to Craig, I would say, if they can feel the sell. I remember, I think I might have emailed it to him or Facebooked it to. And I say, if they can feel the sell, no good. Because if they feel that you're selling them, it's like something's coming off wrong. And the things you're going to talk about, it doesn't feel like selling to the individual. It's like it works automatically or something. Why don't you talk to the example you were going to talk about?

So one of the things that has really been valuable to me and Eben and I have talked a lot about this is protecting the ego of the person who is responding, that you're always building them up, that they're going to feel that they're not questioning their status as you go. So when you look at, for instance, in real estate, a lot of the advertising that you see to first time home buyers, for instance, is things that are kind of trying to incite some emotion or their frustration by saying they run an ad or send a postcard that says something like, your landlord called and said thanks for paying his mortgage again this month. Where you're kind of like saying, stop paying your landlord's mortgage and buy your own home. You're trying to convince somebody in that. And everybody knows that.

Everybody.

I don't think there's anybody who would argue that buying a home is going to make them feel better than renting a home. There's higher status in owning a home than in renting a home. And by, you know, when you're. It's almost the equivalent, it's the verbal equivalent of laughing at them while they're sitting down at the piano, right? Like you're saying, hey, your landlord called, said thanks for paying his mortgage. And how does that make people feel? You know, so when you're the One inciting that. And now you're going to say, you know, you should buy a home instead. Call me. It's almost like the bully saying, give me your lunch money, you know, that kind of thing. It's like you're going to do everything that you want to not respond to that person because they incited that negative emotion and saying that they have higher status than you because they're pointing out to you that you're a dumbass for paying somebody else's mortgage rather than buying a home of your own. Now if you think about that person, why don't they buy a home? Probably because they don't have the money for a down payment. So instead of making them look like a dumbass, why not resonate with the emotion that they have? They would like to own a home, some of them, most of them. And if you can overcome the reason that they're not, then you're offering a solution to them. So we would run ads that say, here's how to buy a home in Winter Haven with zero down payment. Now if you're presenting that to somebody, the solution that's going to be pretty compelling to a first time buyer, somebody who's renting. Now what we found was that even that that's protecting their ego in a much better way than questioning their sanity by pointing out that they're stupid and making them, when they respond, admit I'm stupid when you're protecting that. And you're saying serendipitously, here's a way that I know that you want to buy a home and you're not overtly saying that you understand this emotion and you know how to kind of point it in the direction that you both want it to go, which is for them to buy a home. So you present a solution for them. Here's how to buy a home in Winter haven't with zero down payment. That's moving towards what they really want. Now what I found was that even there you're presenting a solution. But there's a little bit of some psychology that's going on there where it might be awkward or slightly embarrassing for people to call on an ad like that because in a way they're admitting that, that they don't have any money. And I got an immediate and significant bump in that ad when I added in parentheses, even if you can afford to pay cash now, those words right there extend that protective umbrella of somebody's ego to shield what their true situation is. They can call under that safe umbrella of being able to say, maybe I'VE got all cash. I'm just trying to figure out how these, you know, whether this makes the most sense for me or whether I should put down some money or whether how do these zero down payment home loans work? I can ask and inquire about that without having to admit that I don't have any money. So when you look at the polar opposites of that, when you look at the poll, on one poll, you're demeaning somebody and you're lowering their status by saying that they're stupid. And on the other hand, you're elevating their status and you're saying, how to buy a home in Winter Haven with zero down payment even if you can afford to pay cash. That is a much better experience for somebody from an ego basis, from a status basis. And there's so many examples of how that applies, how that works out, you know, but that was a really, you know, significant jump in response and that's the understanding that I had in adding that, making it safe for people to respond. That's pretty awesome. I told a Joe there, I just stopped talking.

What do you think?

What do you think is at work there?

Well, you know What? Look, since J.R. is our very special guest and is a marketing ninja, I'm going to throw that at you. Jr, go for it.

Well, I mean, doesn't that open up? I'll ask you the question. You tell me if I'm on or off. I mean, wouldn't that open up whole part of a market that was otherwise. Well, you say safe but scared to respond because they would have revealed themselves as, in that case, not having enough money. Because now you're saying even if you can afford to pay cash, and you're saying you don't know whether I can afford to pay cash or not, I'm calling, you know, so now I get this.

Yes, now it's safe because I get this anonymity. I can do it. And that's where so much of that stuff is, protecting somebody's, you know, ability to stay neutral right now too. You know, they're inquiring and gathering information. They're not committing to anything. You know, so let me ask you.

One, let me ask you.

Go ahead. All we want to do in profit activator 2 is compel them to call to raise their hand. We're not trying to convince them of anything. That's what Profit Activator 3 is about.

@ what point do you, and of course, I'm asking devil advocate questions here because you know me and we've Been selling for years here, selling and marketing and positioning and all that sort of stuff. And plus, I don't think any of us have any hang ups about wanting to get our stuff into the hands of people. Even the stuff we don't charge money for, we want people to have our stuff. At what point does pressure, urgency, scarcity, closing come into.

Play? Because all of those things are motivators, right? Motivators. Now that's where we say educate and motivate. So we got to educate people first. And often educating is, is about planting the seed, the seed that you're going to harvest later. You're educating somebody about something, creating that desire for it. You're looking at that where we've got that confirmation bias that especially if you're saying things that vibe with what they're saying and you're doing the, you're going down that path, you're kind of educating them. And now when you use all those things that you're talking about, Joe, scarcity and offers and all of that stuff are motivating. That's what motivates people to take action. You can compel somebody to raise their hand, you can educate them about something, create and amplify that desire that they have for something. But if there's no motivation for it. We talk about cookies a lot. You can bring out cookies and you can set them on the table and they're there and they're available and anybody can have them. But nothing, as Robert Cialdini would say, is as attractive as a rapidly diminishing supply of something. Something that was infinitely available, that's now becoming less and suddenly less available is far more attractive. It's more motivating because you've got to take action because you're going to fear of losing something like that. But there's so much, this is such a rich topic because there's so many things that are completely in alignment with all that psychology. You know, things that are going on behind the scenes, the way that we, the way that you look at it. And that's especially true if you have something that is a complex sale, something that is not going to be impulsively entered into, something that requires some level of education about it, that when you're looking at and meeting somebody where they are, you know what desire, that's already going on in their mind. I think about Adrian, who came to our breakthrough blueprint in January. Joe, in your office, we're talking about, you've come to all the I love marketing conferences. You've done the breakthrough blueprint online program and they sell mainframe outsourcing for Fortune 1000 companies. Now that's not something that you're going to be able to convince somebody to do through a postcard. You're not going to be able to do that. But you can compel them to gather information by offering them the 2013 report on mainframe outsource prices, things where people are gathering information. Then you can educate and motivate.

Them. Totally. Oh you wait, I got to do something as an aside here before I forget. And this was actually emailed into us, my office.

Actually. Is that the thing with from the I Love Marketing comment? Because that actually ties into what Dean's talking about. I mean if what you're about. I think I know what you're about to talk.

About. The one about branding, it.

Said. Yeah, that comment that that individual had left on the isle of.

Marketing. The guy from.

Tokyo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it was sent in to Rochelle and she sent it to me and it says hi Joe, thank you very much for your kind words. I think it's great you're using your podcast to educate people so that they don't throw good money after bad branding. One thing I've noticed about the people who tell me that they can't use Dr. Direct Response because they're trying to build a brand is that they usually aren't doing much of anything. That's why I think the problem is as much about doctor Phobia as it is about being obsessed with big bucks style branding. I love the comment you and several others have made about branding for small businesses. He's referring to comments that were made on ilovemarketing.com it's like driving a truck to the ocean to spit in the water. Small business owners just don't see that Big Biz is often making profit in spite of their lame marketing, not because of it. If you have a huge economic advantage or a systems advantage or a time advantage, that is you can no longer before having to recoup money spent on getting each customer, then you can make money even with crummy marketing. Thanks again for your reply. It really made my week. Caratoon. I think that's how you pronounce it. P.S. the other thing that made my week was Rochelle and Lindsey being so friendly, helpful and efficient. They got the I Love Marketing booked to me in Tokyo within a few days of my order. And the shipping was about half of what I usually when I order books from the US So I just wanted to throw that in there Just because I don't want to forget to say.

That. And Rochelle, she really are.

Great. Absolutely. The whole team at Piranha Marketing really goes out of their way to deliver a world class dream come true experience. And after sales service, even after we've already been paid, that's how we.

Roll. Following the eight profit activators. Imagine that.

Yeah. Okay, so sorry, I didn't want. I didn't mean to make that interruption. But you did. Just reminded me of it as you guys were talking, so. And I have it sitting right here in front of me. And even though it's right here in front of me, I am still. I'm not cured of ADD yet. Working on it. I've been doing, you know, now that we've been doing, I've been doing transcendental meditation every day for a.

While. But anyway, go.

Ahead. What's.

That? I'm just. I'm just not gonna. What do you want to talk.

About now, J.R. oh, oh, what do I talk.

About? How awesome Joe is. I want it. You know, actually, I have in front of me. I would. I would totally use the whole episode if I could to talk about how awesome Joe is, but I suspect Joe might want me to talk about.

Marketing. Joe's like, he's pushing to have you on like every episode. He loves that.

Like. Yeah, seriously, Dean, I mean, like, from your perspective, what would suck about that? No, well, see, look, look, here's the thing, though. There's a lot of people that think I'm cool and all that sort of stuff. God knows why, but there's a lot of people that do. However, how many of them could be as articulate and as helpful and as smart in giving direction, confidence, capability, and Clari to all of our. I love marketing listeners as well.

As JR in addition to that.

Yeah. And I did mention this. Although they spelled his name wrong, he is credited into the acknowledgments into the new book, the New Digital Age by Eric Schmidt from Google and Jared Cohen, as am I, because we both have been helping them with their.

Book. But yeah, Jared's kind of a big deal. He really.

Is. And you're the biggest deal ever because you're awesome. Oh, my.

God. Okay, so let's. Let's go back to killer marketing stuff for.

Our. Yeah, absolutely. Well, what I do have in front of me, and I actually sent it to both of you, and this would be actually pretty useful and we can just shuck and jive, as Carlton would say on these ideas. I. I put this together. It's 37 techniques that influence Humans. And I titled it this document. It's a checklist. It's one page, actually. And I called it A Blueprint on human psychology. 37 techniques that influence Us. And I got that name, by the way, A Blueprint on Human Psychology from you, Joe, because you'd emailed the awesome, the Amazing Rakim. And you said. I said something to him through email. And you said to Rakeem, what JR Wrote is like a blueprint on human psychology. Because I mentioned some stuff to him about marketing, and that's where I got the title for it. And maybe we could go through some of this list and it's based off of Robert Cialdini's book Influence. I found it online. The website didn't even credit who put it together. It was like in one of these journals. There was no name on it at all. But it was such a useful checklist of psychological triggers and techniques that influence us, all of us, every human ever. And it's. It's not the end all, be all. Since marketing psychology is a lifelong study, there's something to be said about the confluence of psychological factors coalescing together. If you imagine 100 tributaries or streams and they flow to a larger stream and they all join together to form a raging Amazon river, that's kind of the effect of when you condense and checklist and bring to bear as many as possible psychological influencers into a tightly focused situation where you can influence an outcome that would be to everyone's benefit. So we could maybe go through this checklist and the techniques that help you get more customers, you make more money, and you ultimately become a more ethical and astute influencer in a. You know, I'm sure we can think of a lot of examples in our own lives where these heuristics or techniques, they seem to play themselves out automatically. And because these techniques, they're in our nature, they're part of human nature. And of course, the biggest trap is that you don't think they apply to your customers. You might not think they apply to people in your life, or you might not think they apply to you, but, oh, they apply to all of us. They.

Really. You know, Dean said that also, too, in the past where it's like people actually believe that they are above being human. And here's one thing I want to say to this too, because I think it's accurate. If you guys think I'm full of crap, then tell me there's a lot of people that will use this. Well, my clients are different or My clients are sophisticated or we teach to a, we teach, we sell, we offer, blah, blah, blah to someone that is of a better cloth than you so called marketers or whatever. And to me, not only is it stupid, but it's insulting. Like anyone that is a student of human behavior and applied psychology and marketing, but it's also an insult to their own clients because in a lot of ways, in their need to think that they somehow are better than that or above that, what they're doing is diminishing the human connection that is necessary in order to engage with people. And it prevents proper engagement, useful communication. And when people start thinking, oh, that'll work on them, but not me. And they really, truly believe that, like in all circumstances, it's kind of pathetic, you know, I mean, what am I.

Communicating? No, you're absolutely right. That's why I was saying that nothing is. These motivators. This is what I would call motivators. This list here really is a lot of these are the things that are, that spur us into action, you know, and you're helpless against it. And the reason that people are so resistant to those things is because deep down below the surface, on a subconscious level, they know that they're helpless against their power. That's why they're so resistant to obligating or.

Engaging. Yeah, totally. What Jer said about the biggest trap is the thinking that this sort of stuff doesn't apply to you or your customers or anyone in your sphere of influence or whatever you said, Jer, that is a trap. And if we can. I think the moment that marketing really set in for me is when I realized that I am not my own customer. And what I respond to doesn't necessarily mean that other people will or they won't, and vice versa. I am responding to human stimuli all the time, presented in different ways, when it is specifically niched to me, when it talks to me, when it connects with me. And you know, anyone that doesn't get that is not even open to maybe even, you know, playing around with that as a possibility, even if they're skeptical or resistant to that. I mean, they just never become that good at marketing because they don't, you know, they don't embrace it. It's kind of like eating food but not being able to digest it because it just, you know, you just, you can't digest it. This is sort of like mental digestion in a lot of ways. I think this is operating as a mental enema for a lot of people because they need it, because there's so much shit that people think is true that just isn't. At the end of the day, you're just trying to connect what you have that creates value with people that want it, need it, desire it, could use it, et cetera, et cetera. That's as you were talking about in the last episode in the very beginning of talking about marketing for no other reason. That's where the money.

Is. But how easy is it for us to lie to ourselves? That's what we do. We say, no, I chose that thing. Meanwhile, someone really marketed that thing. But we can't come to terms. We all can't, on some level say, you know what? I totally. That was marketed to me, and there were very smart things that people did to connect with me, and if I can just not. I get out of the hole. I chose that thing, and just for a second say, you know what? I'm. I may be, you know, kind of out of control a little bit. And I'm. I'm doing things automatically because people are triggering me in all sorts of ways. You become more astute. You become more. You become a. You talk about student of. Become a student of your experience because you'll become much more. You'll become smarter at how you do marketing if you can just get out of your own way a lot of times and not trick yourself into thinking, again, you're smarter than all these things that, you know, we can talk about.

Here. Yeah. Yeah. Before you get into this thing, let me give you a perfect example of how, like, I live, eat, and breathe like. And analyze my own, like, emotional reactions that I can see on a conscious level. And you guys know that not too long ago, I bought a Fisker Karma. And if you read the news, of course, Fisker is basically having all kinds. They're pretty much in bankruptcy. So I'm sitting here with this $120,000 emotional decision that I purchase, with all of the logical reasons that I'm going to use it as a contest prize. And then I didn't give it away as a contest prize because my 25k members are like, we just want to refer people into your group. You don't need to give us a car, that sort of thing. So I was sitting there thinking about it. Then I was like, well, I'm worried about giving the car away as a prize because if I give it to someone that doesn't have a Fisker dealership in their area and they need to get it repaired, how are they going to get it repaired because it's such a Unique vehicle. It's one of these. What do you call it? There's a term. Exotic. Yeah. It's an exotic car. So exotic cars don't have tons of parts everywhere. You know, it's not like someone could have a Fisker Karma and go down to, you know, Checker or autozone or whatever. Auto parts places or in whatever part of the world you're listening to this at and get things for it. So I was hesitant about doing it, so I held onto it. And now I'm in this situation where I have like, well, what do I do with this car? Do I. You know, a lot of people are. I even sent a text to Henrik Fisker, who founded Fisker and left the company before they were having all kinds of trouble. And he's like, just hold onto it and see what happens. So basically, this could be a collector's item that could be worth more money than I paid for it. I have no earthly idea. But all of that came. Still, in spite of all the logical reasons that I had, the thing that flipped that switch for me is I thought that car looked awesome. And I want it here. I have it anyway. Anyone that thinks, even if you think you're above this, if there's anyone that lives, eats, and breathes human reactions all day long. I've been doing this shit for 20 years, and I am no different than anyone else when it comes to being swayed by the wind. When it comes to things that really hit what My desires and my responses. I mean, I'm still a monkey that drives a car, too. So that's the deal. And if anyone has any good ideas on what I should do with the Fisker, then you just post it@ilovemarketing.com because I want to come up with some cool contest for someone that may want that.

Thing. There you.

Go. That was an excuse for me to. What's.

That? Let J.R. tell us about some of these. His blueprint on human.

Psychology. The blueprint on human.

Psychology. Yeah. Well, what would be cool? If you see any. Maybe one of you just start, like, this one looks kind of cool. Let's talk about this one. And we can just shuck and jive about what questions people could ask themselves about that technique or how they can use it in their lives, listening to how they can implement it with the A profit activators, how they could think of the before, during, after with each of these techniques. And then ultimately at the end, how do you bring all of them together? How do you bring a confluence to bear of all of them? Coalescing together to really become an astute marketer who does marketing in a very useful, thoughtful way and really gives your customers prospects and the people you're serving an amazing life in the way that whatever it is you serve them and whatever you deliver to them. And I don't know if we're going to get through all 37, but there might be a way that you can.

Get. We can post up, we can give everybody the list, but we can talk about some of them. Let's do.

That. Exactly. So pick one. Looks.

Cool. Let's start with the top. If it costs more, it's worth.

More. Yeah. I mean, when you raise the price on items, it can increase their sale because a buyer is looking for high quality and oftentimes they associate it with the price and cost. By the way, just I'll add this and I'll let you talk. Cost doesn't have to be money. I mean, you can spend time, you can have a cost of energy, you can have a cost of. You can have a cost of relationships. If you have a reciprocation with someone, then you call in a favor. There's all sorts of costs. And if something costs more, whatever the cost happens to be, it psychologically ends up being worth more to you. And not just you, but your customers and prospects go through this as well. So, like, how could that apply to you? How could that apply in your life? How could that apply with what you were learning on.

Ilovemarketing.Com and I love the example in the book that influence that Bob gives about the jewelry, that the owner went away and left a note to, you know, she meant to reduce the price by half, and the person who saw it thought they meant to double the price. So she doubled the price of the price tags and ended up selling more of the jewelry than they had at the original price. Yeah, because it's a shortcut. That's one of those things. Right? That's what we all depend on, is these shortcuts that when evaluating something, well, if it costs more, then it's more valuable, it's worth.

More. We could even make the case here, which is a weird way of bringing this up, but there are people that. How many hundreds of people have we met in person, Dean, that have literally told us at conferences and stuff that I love marketing that you put out for free is better than anything that I've ever paid for. I mean, I've heard that from a bazillion people. And still, because of this perception of something costs money, we've talked about this too. If people don't pay, they don't pay attention. And we violate that by giving this sort of knowledge out as a, as a public service is something that we do for free. And we even see evidence of that, if we charge people for this, it would be a completely different sort of perception. And so it's a weird world in how people respond, however we choose to do what it is we're doing here, because in a lot of ways, we're doing a human experiment. We're seeing how many people will engage for something for free in the hopes that by creating so much value in advance, people will naturally just do business with us down the road, that sort of thing. But this is more of a helpful mechanism than it is.

A. You know what that ties into, though, is that if it costs more, it's worth more. Then what that ties into is that that is doing number two on this list here. When you talked about the podcast, what we're essentially doing that number two is experts know more than others. When someone believes you're an expert, they'll tend to defer to your opinions, regardless of the sensibility of those opinions. Now, what we have been doing for 113 episodes now, 113 hours, we've spent demonstrating that we are applied scientists in the science of marketing. We're demonstrating our expert status. We're establishing that expert status. People believe that. And when they do believe that, the things that they do buy from us, they buy at much higher prices because we're already established as experts. We're established that everybody again and again saying, if the stuff they're giving away is more valuable than anything I've paid for, what must it be like when we give them money? Right.

Right. I have a question. Can I ask a question to both of you? Because about experts, I just have this question popping in my mind. What makes an expert? Why is it that we look to another human being? I haven't planned anything for that. I don't know if you've even thought about this, but why is it that we look to another human.

Being?

Up. Oh, you know more than me. What is it? What is the. What are the factors of element that create expertise in the mind of another human being? What would it be.

Like? You have to go to great Wikipedia. An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly or wisely is accorded authority and status by their.

Peers. Interesting.

Interesting. So we're talking about status.

Again. It is about.

Status? No, I think you can be viewed an expert by association. Like you can be the dumbest individual on the planet, but you could work for. Pick Warren Buffett. And because of the mere fact that you work for Warren Buffett, if you're sitting around at a table and you're with a group of people and you know that this one person works for Warren Buffet, even if it's his shoeshine guy, you think on some level that, oh, maybe that expertise in investing that person may have. So there's a lot of people that are followed as having answers and expertise, when in reality they could be complete dumbasses. But your question. Go ask your question again, Jared, because I want to make.

Sure. What are the elements? What are the elements? So, Kate, there's this thing that we all agree that there's this thing called every all. Well, I can't say every human. I would imagine maybe there's some cultures where status doesn't play as big a role. But for our conversation, we look at other people and we say, that person, they know more, they're more experienced, they're an expert at this thing. There's this thing called expertise. And we associate. I have to go to them for something. What are the elements that make up.

That? Okay, I think the ability to produce results is one of the elements. So the real or perceived perception that the individual has the skill, the ability to produce the results, they're already quote, unquote successful in an area that you want to be. Like, for instance, if you go into a gym, you could have someone that went to school and has read a bazillion books and is trained in being a personal trainer and has a certification, let's say, and has a degree in nutrition and whatever. And you have someone that never had a degree in anything but just lifts weights, eats clean, has great genetics and looks physically awesome. From an appearance standpoint, that person's an expert in how to get me in shape. That's why if you're going to be a personal trainer, you should probably look the part. If you're going to teach people how to make money, you should probably have money and the ability to make money and proof that you have done that and know how to do it, that sort of stuff. But it's actually a very interesting question because early on in learning marketing, when I first started, I knew that I knew more about marketing carpet cleaning services than most people. Not only in my local area, but in the world. However, I had not been studying marketing for many years. I knew more about marketing Carpet cleaning services within three months of reading Gary Halbert than anyone else I met on the planet. But I also, as we talked about in the previous episode, I was applying those ideas and strategies. I put together a consumer awareness guide, a 24 hour free record message. I was using it, I was making offers. And so what I learned about, about expertise is you don't need to be the world's greatest expert in order to be helpful. You just need to know more than the person that you're talking to. And preferably you're not pretending you're an expert when you're not. Because as Gary Halbert says, the most expensive information in the world is bad information. And you got to be really careful what experts you listen to, because some experts will be the most destructive, time consuming. I mean, some experts have sent people into bankruptcy. Some experts in particular areas have really. But for every one of the negative consequences, if you want to go have brain surgery, I'd rather have brain surgery from a surgeon who's successfully done it a thousand times versus someone that just got out of medical school. Because as our friend Rossi says, what do you call the medical student that got the lowest grade from Harvard but still passed? You call that person doctor. That's right. So expert is. It's an interesting. Anyway, I've rambled on enough. What are your thoughts on that.

Dean? I think that we look to expert status as a shortcut to whether we can take somebody's advice. And so to be an expert requires evidence. So our brains automatically look for evidence of this person is an expert. I can take their advice. That's a shortcut. I don't have to invest all of the time to independently verify and research and come to my own conclusions. I can look to this expert and there's evidence that this person is an expert because they've got all of this body of work, They've got all these people that are talking about them, they're associating with these people. There's all of those things that just get you. It jumps a few layers where somebody doesn't have to build that opinion of you on their own. They can trust the opinion, the evidence that you're an expert. And that's something, you know, that's when we have Nick Manton on Joe. That's really what he's an expert at is giving the shortcut or the, I hate to say shortcut because it sounds like it's jacking the system or something, but it's like give people evidence that people typically, if somebody's Been on tv, if they've been in USA Today, if they've been in Success magazine or in all of these things, if they've written a best selling book. Those things we attribute with expert status. So if somebody hasn't heard of you and then all of a sudden you're able to say somebody, you may or may not have seen me in USA Today or on Good Morning America or on ABC or whatever it is you're saying, or read one of my three best selling books, all of a sudden that person's. Yeah, that makes.

Sense. Look, you're making a good point. Here's the dirty little secret about the how to industry, self help industry, book industry, whatever, is that any dumbass could write a book and plenty of them do. Many smart people and many brilliant people and some of the greatest people on the planet have written a book and some of the greatest, smartest experts in the world haven't. And the fact of the matter is, if you want people to pay attention to you, you better give them a reason to pay attention to you. And having expertise and knowledge is one way, not the only way, but one very important way to position yourself. I mean, a Consumer Guide to Carpet Cleaning made me an expert and has allowed my carpet cleaning clients to distribute something that helps people make an informed buying decision. And it positions them, it gives them status, it gives them a robotic way of delivering quote, unquote expertise on how to choose select, you know, SIFs or screen. And so I think, you know, I think the pursuit of knowledge and expertise and skill is critically important. But having it and not marketing it is almost useless because there are.

People. That's the point. That's it right there. Because the marketing is the thing that makes the difference between an expert and someone who's a highly paid expert.

Right? Yeah, me and Evan did that. I was going to say me and Eben did that great interview. Experts versus marketers. And there are so many frustrated doctors that have these degrees that hate Tony Robbins, you know, because he doesn't have a degree. You know, they don't like these market because they're like, oh, you know, they're just out there selling that shit. Okay, dumbass, you went to college for eight to 10 years, you've got all this incredible knowledge, you can really help people, but you think it's beneath you to have to advertise or to put together any sort of information out publicly that you're going to help someone with this, that or the other thing, or to guarantee your services. I mean, God forbid you might have something that could save someone's life. Don't have to go out and tell people about it. They should just come to me because I should be discovered. I mean, it's the most. Just drives me batty when I hear the entitlement attitude of some experts that do not have or take the time to learn and apply the marketing of their.

Expertise. And so much. I was looking down the list. As we look at number nine is our desire not to think. And that's really what all that comes down to is that if we could just look and know that all makes sense now I don't have to think about that. I didn't even see that one on the list when I was saying that we look for these shortcuts, but that fits right in. Of course we look for shortcuts. We don't want to have to think about it. And by the way, that's why it's so important in the after unit to build relationships with people. Because number 10 is a strong desire not to rethink. So if you're the incumbent provider of something and they had a world class experience with you and you're. And they like you, they don't have to think about whatever it is. If you cleaned their carpets or you sold their house or sold them the house they live in or got them their mortgage or their insurance policy or fixed their car or walked their dogs, whatever it is. There's something very powerful about being the incumbent.

There. Yeah, totally.

Totally. I love you See how they all fit? You know, like so many of them are, you know, they're all.

Interrelated. Yeah. So I'm trying to say. So go ahead, Jerry. What were you gonna.

Say? I was just gonna say when. When you, you know, someone will hear that and they'll go, oh, so I. So I have to, you know, market to someone after the fact. It sounds like a lot of work. No, no, no. Psychology and human nature is giving you an opportunity to make more money. That's what this is like. It's an opportunity. It's not a chore. These things are like the keys that allow you to see opportunity in situations. So it's not. It's such a. It's such a boon, like B o o N for you, if you.

Understand these things well, you know, do this, Jer. Because you put so much thought into all of the stuff that you do. So this list, I'd love to have you go through it and point certain things from your perspective and just kind of rattle off some stuff. And then me And Dean will, you know, just go through it and then we'll pipe in and have a discussion about it. After you do.

That. I actually love the way it's working. I mean, I don't. I could. I love the way it's actually going right now where Dean just mentions one and then we kind of add our thing and then we go to how they all connect. Could we do that or. No, that's fine by me.

Absolutely. And we'll put the list that's going to give people a nice reason to come. Ilovemarketing.com to download the free list that's available right.

Here. You know what's so funny? That's so funny that you mentioned, if it were up to me, here's what I would have done because I'm. Now we can't. Because you said you want to do it free, but I would have been like, okay, no, wait.

Wait. We can retract that. We can retract that. Because this is a free podcast and we can make people work for it if you want to do something. So what's your.

Idea? I would love if it were me. I have. I read this on the. I think the first time that I was talking with Dean and it was the first time I was on. I love marketing. And I read that letter that you were sending to people about the insane offer. I know, Dean, do you want to give it away free? I just. I'm compelled. I'm compulsed. I have to. I have to. My insane offer.com and what I wanted to do. Can I read this letter again? Because I don't. I don't know if I can explain in a pithy way without reading the letter what is actually atmyinsane author dot.

Com. Go for it before Dean, like, shoots it.

Down. I'm very cognizant that I don't want to do anything that Dean, you don't want done. So I just. If you say no, no, no, just explain it. I'll try and explain it in a pithy way. But the letter. This was Joe, actually. I transcribed what Joe had said on. It was so eloquent the way he stated it. The headline was, this is the most insane offer I've ever made. And it says, dear and then the salutation. There are four books that are some of the best and most useful books I've read. And personally, I've read over 1000 books in my life. I want to send you these books and have you just cover my actual cost of the books and pay only shipping and handling. I'm not going to make any money off this offer, really. I'm doing it simply to put four amazing books in your hand. Beyond that, it gives me a reason to send you four killer videos from my annual Genius Network mastermind, aka 25K group event that are worth thousands of dollars. And all you have to do is pay for four books in shipping and handling. I will give you the books and videos that are worth at least $25,000 to you. In fact, if these four books and videos are not worth at least $25,000 to YOU, I'll give you a full refund period. The investment for this insane offer, only $137. Now go watch the short video I recorded at www.myinsaneoffer.com. and then it says best. And then in blue ink, there's a signature. It says Joe Polish. And then it says, PS Seriously, this offer is really so incredible. I actually registered the website www.myinsaneoffer.com because of it. So go watch my short video there right now and snatch it up before I run out of the books. Really? And I don't even know. Do you run out of books? It's possible. They're running low. But what I was going to say was, I would love. This is what I would have done. But we might not be able.

To. I don't.

Know. I would have loved to give this as a premium or a bonus. If people go to myinsaneoffer.com and order, just get that thing because it's so amazing. And then they can email like supportopolis.com and just send the confirmation email that you actually ordered. And then it could either be Gina or Rochelle or Lindsey, and they'll send you this PDF checklist just for going and taking Joe up on this incredible offer. I don't get anything for this, by the way. I just love that offer because it's incredible. It's insane. And that's what I would have done. But I'm not you. So what do you want to do.

Here? What do you want to do.

Dean? You know, we like saying yes to people we like. That's number 19. Depends if we like. And in turn, whether the people who come because they like Junior go to watch this.

Video. I would love them to if they'll say, yeah, I would love it if you're listening to go check out the video. And also, by the way, because there's people who, lots of people actually who bought the myinstaneoffer.com offer and they'll be like, well, wait a minute, I didn't get my checklist. Email supportepolish.com youm'll get it totally. And so I don't want to exclude someone because they went there early and there were a lot of people who actually went there and got that. So. But we can continue. Let's try and get through as many as.

Possible. Well, we will know if they got it or not because they will be in the database. So we will send this out to everyone that has already been to myinsaneoffer.com and made that investment. So everyone will know. I don't make a penny off of that pitch. It was a way for me to unload some books as an excuse to give people some videos from Ray Kurzweil, Tim Ferriss, Peter Diamandis and Brendan Bouchard, of all of them speaking at my 25k group. And these people paid $10,000 to go to the annual Genius network Mastermind where that took place. And so it was just a reason for me to. If you buy their books, I'll give you the videos. So it was just an excuse for me to share these videos. And it is such a good offer. I have never before seen anything like this. There's no affiliate program program because there's no margins in that thing. I mean, I'm literally just covering my shipping and handling and my cost of the books. It'll sound like I'm lying. I'm actually losing about $10 on every sale. And I did it because I had a whole boatload of the books that I had bought. I mean, I bought 4,000 copies of Tim's book and we still had some left over, blah, blah, blah. And what I want to do though is it puts every so often we will have someone that will be like, I want to go to your 25k group. I want to go to your annual event. Although that offer is not a pitch to do that. It's literally, you get the books, you get the videos, and they pay for shipping and handling. So I think it's more than fair and it just adds even more value to an already insanely an insane.

Offer. Number 33, we have a desire to have what is restricted at number 35. Exclusive information is more valued. At number 36, drops from abundance to scarcity, increases value. In just one fell swoop, we've covered all of.

Those. Isn't that.

Amazing? It really is. Yeah. I don't even know.

What I'd say. Groups working together, bond number 24 and. And physical attraction increases liking. 20 picture me in gold shorts from Burning Man. I think on our website. Yeah, people should just go to YouTube and type in Joe Polish. Bernie, man, if you want to see a complete freak show. And let's see, what else. Social proof replaces hard proof in uncertainty. That's.

Fascinating. It really is. That's. What if everybody else is doing it?

Yeah. What do you think of public image? Public.

Image. But there's an example of why referrals are so valuable. Because if you. If somebody likes somebody else and they're going to do what they do, that's a shortcut. I know Joe and I like Joe and Joe likes this person. Done. That's all. That's how Choo Joe uses. That's done. That's good enough for.

Me. Wouldn't it be interesting if people. You're talking about social proof replaces hard proof and uncertainty. I'm always thinking of the way to protect to. Because these can be used in a very unsavory way. Wouldn't it be interesting if there were groups that you should never join or people who create uncertain situations and then place social proof in those situations? I mean, they engineer situations and that's the sort of thing you ought to be aware of that it happened. Look, this is life that happens in real life. People are engineering circumstances to get what they want. And with the less like this, you're able to become more astute and more aware of the situations to protect yourself and. And serve your customers and prospects better by using them.

Ethically. You got trouble in River City. Right here in River City. And that starts with T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool. You know what? You need a band. You need a boys band. Do you.

Guys. Are you. The hell are you talking.

About? Are you cultured enough to know what I'm referencing.

There? I did not know what you're talking about. Wow, Sounds like a Will Ferrell movie or.

Something. No, it's a very famous play. Very famous musical. What is it? I wish I knew what it was called. I think it's called the Music man or something where the guy comes into River City and instead of trying to sell them band uniforms, he creates a problem and he turns their attention to the pool hall that's causing kids to become derelict. And of course, once the town is rallied around it, they need an alternative to that, which is starting a band. And when they start a band, they need uniforms and instruments. So there you.

Go.

Interesting. I'm.

Just. Well, you know what? You.

Can. Because I know the play, but I don't know the name of.

It. Yeah, yeah, that I think is even more funny. But, you know, here's a little secret about me that many people probably don't care to know, but I'll tell you anyway. And this has no relevance on pretty much anyone's life except people that think it does. Is I am not. I'm not into plays and musicals all that much. I get more fun out of going and seeing a movie than most musicals. I mean, I've seen a few cool ones, you know, but I'm like. And if I have to go see something live, I really like things like Blue Man Group and Cirque du Soleil and stuff like that. But, you know, an interesting dinner I had in Newport a couple weeks ago at the xprize visionary meeting was Eric Hershberg, who is the CEO of Activision, the largest video game company in the world. You know, they do Call of Duty and Guitar Hero and all that stuff. I mean, they're worth bazillions and talk about an articulate guy. And he was telling me about the position he has about do video games cause violence in kids? Because their game Call of Duty is always called into question during shootings and stuff. And it was very interesting listening to his stats and all of his stuff explained statistically, especially other countries where there's far more video game playing that has less violence than in the US and all this sort of stuff. It was really sort of interesting hearing his perspective. And from everything I heard from him, I mean, he had me convinced that watching video games, even incredibly violent ones, you know, really didn't do, you know, didn't prove in many ways was an outlet and actually created less violence. It's very interesting, but the point is, the ability to influence and persuade people built on your knowledge of a particular subject area is important. And there are, you know, when it comes to putting information out into the world, the more you know about what the hell it is you're talking about, the better. Now, the reason I'm bringing this up is when I not to make a statement about video games, because that is not my expertise. What I remember when I was in my carpet cleaning business was I was sitting down with a lot of people trying to sell me advertising and everything from Valpak coupons to money mailers to yellow pages to, you name it, newspapers, because there was no Internet back then. And I was running into a lot of advertising salespeople. And I would like to think that many of these people were well intentioned in wanting to help me A struggling business owner generate more business. And frankly, I was becoming an advertising victim because they would sell me and convince me of the validity of running an ad in their media and it wouldn't work. And then when it didn't work, they would say, well, the reason it's not working is because you need reputation and people need to see your ad over and over again in order to know that you're credible and that you're established and then your ads are going to suddenly start working. And I believe that, as I found out, almost everyone that didn't understand marketing believed that Bullshit. As if Mrs. Jones was sitting there with a calendar on the wall saying, you know, I've seen this carpet cleaning ad and if they're in there three more times, then I'm going to hire them. I mean, that doesn't even cross their mind. But that's the crap that I was being told. Once I learned marketing, I no longer was an advertising victim. I actually kept many other people from becoming advertising victims from people that I don't even think were trying to do harm. I just think they didn't know any better. It goes back to the thing from Gary Halbert. The most expensive information in the world is bad information. We what happens when you have someone giving you bad information or saying, oh, you need to run an ad there? What happens is people I would run into cleaners that would be like, well, yellow Pages don't work. Because I tried. It's like, well, yellow Pages work all the time. What didn't work is your crappy ad. So you get these people that not only become advertising victims, they also end up hating the media, which could be their lifesaver if they simply knew how to get the messaging right. So in the process of not knowing how to get the message, they end up hating the media because they were sold the media by people that knew how to sell them advertising but didn't know how to construct an ad that actually worked. So you can have a fantastic expert in selling newspaper ads or yellow page ads or Internet ads or websites that doesn't know the first thing about what a website should do, say, behave, whatever, how it should interact and engage with the visitor. And it goes on and on and on and on. And the way to actually become very good at this. So you not only make the dosh as JR started talking about when we first started doing these episodes is like, go through this stuff, the checklist, the blueprint on human psychology. If it costs more, it's worth more. If you start incorporating these elements into what it is you you do and how you do it. That's where the money is. That's not only where the money is. That's where the persuasion is. That's where it shows you how to interact and utilize tools that are available to you day in, day out, many for free. That you're not even using these tools to generate business in your own life because you simply don't know how to do it. It's not that the tools aren't there. It's not that the gold mine isn't right under your feet. The gold mine for many people is staring in front of them in their computer screen. They're looking at it on their smartphone. It's right there. They just don't know how to get access to it because of the human psychology that they don't know how to interact with, that they don't know how to utilize. We are here helping direct people in how to use it. And we give you a model of before, during, and after. After, after. And the eight profit activators. And then all of this awesome stuff that we've been talking about with the fabulous Junior. What do you.

Think? What a great couple episodes. Yes. It's like a shining beacon in a sea of 112 seemingly now mediocre episodes.

What?

No, it's just building.

Up.

Yeah. Come.

On. I mean, yeah, you don't piss off Jared. Come on. I was on those episodes. Dean, he's not gonna allow you to get away with that. I mean, if it was just you. That's a whole nother story. But, you know, we're talking.

About. I've done the.

Junior.

What? I've done three episodes with J.R.

Well. Yeah, well. And me on two of.

Them.

Yeah. I thought you meant, like, you.

Know. Yeah. Joe might as well have been on the one that we were on, actually.

Because. So to anyone that has. That is new to I Love Marketing, let me kind of fill you read the Breakthrough DNA report, which is on our website. If you at this point have listened and learned so much and are actually making money from what we teach on I Love Marketing, then do yourself a favor and get the I love marketing DVDs, which we do not have any sort of hardcore sales pitch or anything. You can buy them from us. You can see that on ilovemarketing.com if you want to see us on video and all kinds of amazing speakers and that sort of stuff. We basically. If you have not read Breakthrough DNA, read it. There's I Love Marketing meetup groups that happen all over the different parts of the world. And you can check out meetup.com or you can go to I Love Marketing and see the listing of meetup groups. If you want to start your own, we have a whole downloadable PDF where you can start your own meetup group. There's tons of episodes going over all kinds of stuff, incredible people that we will speak with. Like a week from now, I'm going to interview Dean Ornish on Health, which won't be an I love marketing episode, but we might put it up there as a bonus. So Dean has all kinds of crazy stuff. He does. I have all kinds of crazy stuff that I do. If you want to do in person things. Dean does these breakthrough blueprints that are awesome, which you can find out more about. I have my genius network mastermind, but for the most part, I love marketing. It is the most awesome, phenomenal training on the planet. You can get it on itunes. You can get it at I love marketing. And if you. You're brand new to this, go back and listen to some of the past episodes. And JR Is awesome. And we've done now two episodes of jr. Listen to all of them. If this is the only one you've listened to, I think you'll get a ton out of it. And JR what's your famous last words? I mean, you've now been on three.

Episodes. Joe Polish is the most amazing and awesome person in the world. He's the most connected and contribution oriented man in the universe. And I love Dean Jackson as well.

As. Well, not quite as much, but as.

Well. But you know.

What? That's enough. That's good enough for me. J.R. no.

No. But I have to say something about Dean also. He doesn't have the title of marketing Buddha for no reason. He's incredible at marketing and he's an incredible human being. He's awesome. You're very nice to everyone. I mean, you're awesome also. And I just, I'm so happy that you both had had a mind to say, hey, J.R. you should. You should be on the episode. And Joe said, hey, why don't you do the episode? And then Dean, you helped me through the first episode. I was actually pretty scared isn't the right word, but I was certainly nervous. And you made it very fun to be on there and I really appreciate that. And you two are so awesome. Thank you so much. I love you.

Too.

Awesome. And look. Yeah, yeah. Yes. We both love you. And I love you more than Dean does, basically. You know, this all started with Jarrah wanting to basically take knowledge and expertise and go and interview people in order to grant wishes for kids so that, you know, make a wish kids could actually experience what he did when he was a make a wish kid because he had a, you know, kidney transplant plant. And basically, you're an awesome dude. So, you know, you're a great contribution to the world, and we really appreciate what you're doing. And we do so much work together. And so, so many people that are out there, you know, behind the scenes, there's always smart people that may not get the. The limelight or get talked about or go on stage and speak and stuff that have so much to do with moving forward, all of the stuff that we're doing. And Jer is certainly one of those people. He's been on most every episode behind the scenes of I love marketing and all that jazz. So this will continue and you will continue to hear more. And I'd love to have everyone give us your comments@ilovemarketing.com and I would also like it if you share this episode and the last one with tweet it, put it on Facebook, carrier pigeon. I mean, whatever ways you can get information about this house. And don't forget, if nothing else, go to. I love. I mean, no, well, yes, go to ilovemarketing.com and make a comment, but go to my insaneoffer.com and get yourself that snazzy thing. And then we will send you a PDF of this blueprint on human psychology, the 37 techniques that influence us. And we will talk to you guys on the next episode of I love marketing. So thanks for.

Listening. Good.