The One Where John Dumas Interviews Dean And Joe - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #147

Entrepreneur on fire. 505 failures. Aha. Moments. I've made it Moments and a lightning round seven days a week. Join John Lee Dumas and Today's Entrepreneur on Fire. Want to manage your incoming calls without hiring that secretary? Go to evoice.com and get $5 off every month for life when you enter promo code FIRE. That's evoice.com promo code FIRE. Besides fear and lack of confidence, design projects are what I see hold entrepreneurs back most. Luckily, 99designs can help. Visit 99designs.com fire and get a $99 power pack of services for free. Okay, Fire nation, let's get started. I am simply thrilled to introduce my guests today, Joe Polish and Dean Jackson of I Love Market. Dean. Joe, are you prepared to ignite?

Ready?

Ready to rock and roll? Probably more so than even Dean.

I doubt that we're gonna pit that against each other the entire time. Dean fell in love with marketing as a young boy when he realized that selling stuff on commission was way easier than renting himself out by the hour for a regular job. Dean has continued to focus on a lifestyle centered approach to business, using marketing as the ultimate lever to a life of freedom and fun. Joe he fell in love with marketing when he realized as a four year on the counter of his father's locksmith shop that if he smiled nicely, people would give him tips. He has evolved into a name dropping, self aggrandizing, super generous dude whom we all love. Dean and Joe have been having killer conversations about marketing for over 15 years. They talk about new marketing ideas, lead generation, lead conversion, getting referrals, email marketing, even productivity. Every week is a new adventure and it's always a blast. And I've just given our listeners a little overview guys. So take a minute, tell us about you personally because we want to get to know both of you. Then give us an overview of your business and Dean, take it away.

Okay, perfect. Well, I started out as a real estate agent just over 25 years ago and started using my real estate business as a laboratory to experiment with all of the direct marketing principles that I was learning and then kind of evolved that from there to packaging and creating turnkey tools for realtors all across the country to use to grow their businesses. And then about maybe three or so years ago now, Joe and I started doing the I Love Marketing podcast and sharing all the things that we've learned. Me as a real estate agent helper and Joe as a carpet cleaning helper and now sharing all that stuff with business owners all over the world. Now it's been really a fun journey.

And Joe?

Well, you know, I mean, I just kind of hang out with Dean. So I started out as, like Dean said, as a deadboat carpet cleaner. I learned marketing because I needed to eat, I needed to survive. I fell in love with direct response once I learned what you can do with changing a message. Like the difference between a $1 bill and $100 bill is the message on the paper. I just really learned the value of words and an offer and how you can persuade people robotically. This was all before the Internet even existed. I transformed this small carpet cleaning company, started teaching these strategies to other carpet cleaners, ended up literally changing that entire industry. Over 7,000 companies in that industry became members of my company, Piranha Marketing, and then started doing coaching programs in the late 90s. And then throughout the 2000s, ended up doing a Nightingale Conant program back in 2004, which to this day is still their number one selling marketing program. Started doing high level mastermind groups and now I have a thing called Genius Network, which is the highest level mastermind group in the world for direct response marketers with over 145 members that pay 25 grand a year and even got a billionaire in the group. So we've got pretty expansive stuff where it all started with just learning how to sell and market carpet cleaning and how much it's transformed into so many other areas. Because me and Dean love marketing, because marketing is everything. And that applies to not only your for profit business, but nonprofits and even your personal life. I mean, if you want to get dates or meet better friends, it truly is marketing because marketing is positioned and packaging and offers. And so there's ways to do it ethically, there's ways to do it unethically, and of course we always preach do things. If you want to be in the relationship business versus the transaction business, you better not only use effective marketing, but you also better keep your word and work with integrity and deliver enormous value. Because that's what it's all about.

Well, Fire Nation, if you haven't figured it out already, you're in for a treat. Today both Joe and Dean are at the top of their industry. And it's not that often that I bring on other podcasters because hey, Entrepreneur on Fire is a seven day a week podcast. I give you all you can handle. But let me tell you, I love marketing is a home run of a podcast. It's one of those podcasts that I listened to before I started podcasting and really got me fired. Up to jump into this world. So here's, you know, a couple guys that I've always admired, always looked up to. It's an honor to have you both on the show. And, Joe, I know that you have a great success quote for us because we always start with a success quote to get that motivational ball rolling. So take, take it away.

Well, there's so many I could say, but I'm just going to think of the very weird movie of Vanilla sky, which had this one line that said, every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around. The reason I like that is because no one's listening to Entrepreneur on Fire because of where they've been. They're listening to it because of where they want to go. I think it's the same reason they listen to. I love marketing. If you define yourself by your past, guess what? The only usefulness of the past is raw material to create the future. And as long as you can draw from the lessons and use that to build a bigger future, then that's great. But to dwell in it, to get mired, to have it limit you is really unfortunate. And frankly, most people do. And so wherever you're at in your life, good, bad, failures or not, we've all had them, some worse than others. Every passing moment is a chance to make another decision, apply another strategy and transform your life.

Joe, that is pure gold. And that's exactly what Entrepreneur on Fire is all about. It's about giving our listeners that raw material that they can then use to shape their futures, their lives, their dreams, goals, and aspirations. So, Dean, we're going to turn to you now because Entrepreneur on Fire, we put the spotlight on our guest. And today we have two guests. But we're going to talk to you first, Dean, about a failure, about a time in your life when you just face a major obstacle or challenge and, you know, maybe you fell flat in your face, you know, maybe you dug deep and you overcame it. But share with Nation that real story. Take us down to that ground level. Take us there with you. Dean. Share with us that story and the lessons you learned.

When I started out as a real estate agent, the way that I would get business, the way that most real estate agents and a lot of other salespeople are taught, is to do cold calls. And I used to do it, and I did it very well. But where I always had a problem with was getting burned out on it and getting the motivation to continue to do it.

It mile and dial, baby.

Absolutely. And I used to have to play all of those games with myself. I would get to a point where, you know, you'd think about, you know, every yes is getting or every no is getting you closer to a yes. And just even I remember having to really discipline myself to make the calls at the time. You know, it was like really pushing something uphill. And the. The bright light at the end of that story is really when I discovered direct Response. And I remember so vividly the first moment that I had a success with direct Response. And it became. It was the moment that I knew that I would never have to make another cold call again. And it was because of sending out a direct response post card with a business reply card offering renters a book on how to buy their first home and sending that out and getting those first day business reply cards back. It was about three or four days after the postcards had gone out. I was pulling into the office and our receptionist, Joanne was waving over her head this little stack of cards. And I walk in and she hands me these cards. And there were a 11 of these business reply cards that first day. And I just remember walking back to my office and instead of having to make those cold calls, I really had to dredge through that every day to make 100 cold calls. And I hated it. But it was one of those things that I had to really discipline myself to do. But instead of making those cold calls, I ended up calling these 11 people who had responded for the book. And everyone that I called and contacted with, I connected with six of them that night. And they were all friendly and cooperative and they knew why I was calling. And, you know, these were people that you would have to go an entire hundred calls to weed through to get maybe two of those type of people in a night. And just remember that I still get that my physiology, I still get that giddy feeling knowing that that was the last day that I would ever have to make a cold call. And it was really something that it came at just the right time because I was really reaching the end of my rope in terms of my ability to discipline myself to continue doing that.

So, Dean, if you could just boil it down for Fire Nation. What's one lesson, one takeaway that our listeners, entrepreneurs, wantpreneurs, small business owners, what could they walk away with?

Well, the thing is, that's really the big lesson there, is that the leverage that you can get with direct response where you're. That's the first time that I was able to do something that was working while I was not working. I sent out those 1500 postcards. And those postcards were essentially doing the job of all of the cold calls that I would have to make to generate those leads. And so that that leverage was able to get me off the hamster wheel. It got me. Because cold calling or doing things that require your time in a linear kind of fashion, or like a hamster wheel, it works while you're doing it, but the moment you step off, the hamster wheel stops. And so it was the first experience of taking the time to create that postcard and to learn the direct response skills and to send out that the postcard without getting. Without getting paid immediately and then having it act like a flywheel that I was able to continue to send out those postcards. You know, so you. That was kind of the introduction to working once and reaping many times, you.

Know, power of the leverage and scaling your knowledge and your just time, your energy, your effort into a system that works. And Fire Nation, if you know anything about Joe Polish, you know that this guy goes big or he goes home. I mean, Joe, you've hit some home runs in your life. I mean, let's be honest, you've hit some grand slams in your life. But guess what, you've also had some strikeouts as well, and that's what you want to focus on now. Tell us the story of one of those strikeouts. Really take us down to that ground level. Share that with Fire Nation and the lessons you learned.

Well, you know, I've got so many of them, it would be like we could make a card deck. But, you know, let me start with even what kind of the failure of just trying to start out a business in the very beginning and thinking that there was some relationship between being good and getting paid. Here I was young. I realized early on I didn't want to work for anyone. I had long hair in a ponytail. I didn't like being told what to do. I was very distractible. So I didn't make for following other people's orders. Not that I couldn't hold jobs and stuff. I just hated them. I really wanted to work for myself because I wanted to live in the results economy versus the time and effort economy, which is what an entrepreneur does. Definition of an entrepreneur came from 1804, from John Baptiste. Say that said, an entrepreneur is someone that takes resources from a lower level of productivity to a higher level. So I thought getting into a carpet cleaning business and learning how to do that really well, there would be plenty of business. I learned the technical skills of that business. But then I realized I Didn't know how to get people to buy it from me. I didn't know how to get people to hire me. I basically, for two years, was dead broke living off credit cards. I would literally work 12, 14, sometimes 16 hours a day doing hard manual labor. And I would pay money to do that because I was bringing in less money than what it was costing me to survive. And that is one of the dumbest ways to go broke. I mean, if you're going to go broke, you should sit on a couch watching TV or something or playing video games. You shouldn't go broke doing hard manual labor for 12, 14 hours a day. I mean, that's one of the most idiotic ways to go broke. But I did that for almost two years. I was getting more and more in debt. And so I was failing at this business. Although I did good work, although I cared about my clients, although I was certified and trained and knew the technical skills of the business, but I didn't know marketing. And so I learned marketing out of desperation. So, I mean, one of the biggest failures ended up being one of the greatest opportunities because given the choice of starving or eating, most people don't want to starve. And so it made me very resourceful and I had to deal with that level of adversity. That was a big business failure right from the very beginning. Starting a business, so enthusiastic, thinking I was going to make it work, and just simply not knowing what the hell I was doing and literally spending two years of total misery, but driven to try to figure it out. So that's a business one. I mean, I could talk about being a drug addict when I was 18 years old and all that sort of stuff, but there's been many things in my life, and luckily I've been around great people. I've always been a great reader. I've always learned how to transform things and done a lot of therapy, too. But beyond that, that's. That's one of them.

So, Joe, you bring up such a great point about how your back was against the wall. It was either succeed or fail, and maybe not eat. And I was recently on Pat Flynn's Smart Passive Income podcast, and he asked me, he said, john, you know, like, of these 500 plus interviews you've done with entrepreneurs, what's one theme that you're consistently seeing come up? And what just came to my mind, because it was an unprompted question, I didn't have any time to think or prepare for it was the baby effect. And I said, you know what? It seems so often, like an abnormally high amount of time. When people, entrepreneurs on my show, what was their inflection point? Something about a baby always comes up about how they just got married, they just started a family, and now they had to support this little baby that, you know, was counting on them. And I termed it the baby effect because it was at that point, like when Dean was talking about dialing. Having to dial a hundred calls a day at some point, you know, that's tough when you know you're the only person that you're trying to provide for. But you know, all of a sudden when there's a little baby in the room, you know, those 100 phone calls, I mean, you'll do anything to succeed as human beings. When that innate sense of survival takes over, we will do whatever it takes. Having your back against the wall, having a brand new family that you absolutely have to provide for, it's not always a bad thing. What are your thoughts on that, Joe? Is that back against the wall, that adrenaline, that innate sense of survival, is that sometimes good for entrepreneurs?

Yeah, absolutely. What you hope it is, though, is positive pressure versus negative pressure. But the reality is they both work. I have a friend, Vern Harnish, who started young entrepreneurs organization Love Vern now called yeah, eo and I did an interview with him years ago and we were talking about there's this belief that entrepreneurs will work well or that people in general work well under pressure. And he's like, that's not really true. It's not that people work hard under pressure. It's just with deadlines, it's just under pressure, they just work. And so a lot of times people are. They confuse activity with accomplishment. But when you have to produce a result, well, guess what? Your brain kicks into a much different level of intensity, a much different level of discernment, a much different level of producing a result. Because in the world of entrepreneurship, you get paid for results. It doesn't matter if you're nice, it doesn't matter if you're caring, it doesn't matter if you're a good human being. None of that matters. What matters is producing results. My friend Ken Glickman says you don't get the proverbial cigar in life until you get it right. And never before. You can spend a lot of time and a lot of effort doing a lot of things that produce no results, or you can produce a million dollar result in five minutes with the right decision, the right strategy, that sort of thing. But yeah, adversity. What's the necessity is the mother of invention. I mean, it's really true. And I think all of us have experienced that.

Love that Joe and Dean, this question's for you. But Joe, it's coming your way. So you're going to have a little more prep time than Dean was.

Well, I'm a little quicker than him if you want to start.

Dean, what is your proudest entrepreneurial moment?

Oh, the moment I met Joe Polish has to be the proudest moment.

Insert violin.

That's so funny. No, I think there's something about though, all the people that you get to meet. I think the thing that really has been proud is getting to be on the Tony Robbins Money Masters series, one of the interviews that he did in that series, and really kind of getting to know Tony and getting to spend some time playing golf with him. That has been a very wide reaching sort of thing. And that's everybody who I meet who has watched that or listened to it. Makes me feel good to meet people in that way.

Love that Dean. Well, you just hit a hole in one one with my audience who loves Tony Robbins. So great entrepreneurial moment. And Joe, what's your proudest entrepreneurial moment?

Man, you know, that is a really tough one because there's external things that I could point to that were Bill Phillips giving me a new car for helping him with his Make a Wish campaign. That made him the largest individual contributor in the history of the world for Make a Wish foundation, being Richard Branson's largest fundraiser and doing all that, getting an award for that and being in Life magazine. I mean, that's kind of cool stuff. The thing I mean, I have so many things that are like, I guess awards or proud moments or public acknowledgment. I think from a standpoint of what had the most impact on me is Dan Sullivan, who is the founder of Strategic Coach. Dan has coached more successful entrepreneurs than any other human being alive. And he founded a company called Strategic Coach. He's truly the most brilliant entrepreneurial thinker that I've ever met. And me and Dean are very close friends with him. And it was. I've been in his program Strategic Coach for going on 19 years now. And Dan's also in my 25k group. And it was when I was sitting with him, I think it was in Cape Cod, because I'll spend about 30 days a year with Dan. And he said, you know, besides his wife Babs, who runs the company with him, and they've got just a great company. He said, you know, you're my best Friend, Friend. And then he went on to just acknowledge all of these qualities and skills that I never saw in myself, that he sees in me. And it was just an incredibly edifying moment and how much impact that I have had on him coming from a guy who's had more impact on me. So there's this whole thing about don't meet your heroes because you'll be upset, which I will tell you, John, and you can probably vouch for this, too. I'm sure all of us could. Is that. That's actually a really true statement. You'll meet people all the. You read their books, and then you meet the real person and you realize, like, wow, this person's not who they are when they write. But Dan Sullivan absolutely walks the walk and talks the talk better than anyone I've ever met. And to have someone I admire also be a person that I spend so much time with who just. We have such a great relationship. We do a podcast called 10X Talk Together, and that was an incredibly.

Just.

Incredibly valuable thing for me to understand and realize, and it was hard to kind of take that in, but, you know, it was cool.

No, that's a great comment about meeting your mentors. And it can happen on the flip side, too. I mean, to be honest with you, I just got back from New Media Expo and I had more than one person walk up to me and say, huh, John, you know, I thought you'd be a little bit taller.

Yeah, we hear that stuff all the time. But you know what I mean, it's really cool. Cool to try when people, like, really. I really strive to be approachable and never forget your audience. There's that cliche, be nice to the people you meet on the way up. They'll be the same people you meet on the way down. In the road to success, I have early on in my entrepreneurial career, I started when I was 22 years old running a business. I'm now 46 years old. Basically, you run into the same people and you do not want to go through, you know, it is a boomerang. And you better put good vibes out. You better. You don't screw people. You don't get in bed with known, you know, idiots or criminals or people that, you know, just don't have ethics. I mean that it will come back to you over and over again. And just going through life just being generous, just being useful, just being grateful always pays dividends. So I always appreciate those people. And, you know, when you run into people that actually, when you put yourself in A position like you're doing, like we're all doing, sharing our thoughts and ideas and interviews and stuff with literally hundreds of thousands of people. You get known and so you want to. I hope at the end of it all that I just encourage a tremendous amount of people and I love to hear it when people say that about me, and I'm sure we all do. And from the little bit that we know you, John, I mean, I've heard nothing but glowing things about you.

Thank you.

That know you personally. And I think what you're doing here with what we're all doing with podcasts is a great service. I mean, we're putting wisdom out to the world and, you know, and do we want money for it? Yeah, of course. But people don't have to buy anything from us in order to. In order to get tremendous value. And by the value creation, that's where the revenue comes from.

Well, Joe, thank you for your kind words and both to you and Dean. I mean, entrepreneur on Fire wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for great entrepreneurs who have this great success and who are so inspiring on so many levels that are willing to come on and share their journey. So on behalf of Fire Nation, you know, I'm going to take this moment here to thank you. And before we hit the home stretch, let's also thank our partners. There are several things that hold us back from becoming an entrepreneur. After doing over 450 interviews with today's most inspiring and successful entrepreneurs, I can tell you that by far the number one thing holding people back is fear. Fear is followed by several other factors. Lack of confidence, not knowing where to start. But in my personal experience, something that I see holding people back every single day from launching their podcast or website or business is design. Don't get me wrong, design is very important for your business. Your design is oftentimes people's first impression of your business. It shouldn't be something that holds you back from launching that podcast or website. It's something that you can get started on today at 99designs. You'll have several professional designs to choose from within just a few days of requesting your design. Visit 99designs.com fire to start your design project today and get a $99 power pack of services free. Do you find yourself having to handle a lot of customer service calls? How about fielding requests over the phone for interviews or speaking engagements? One off calls may not take a long time, but when there's a constant stream of with them, it could eat into precious time that you could be spending on creating something for your business. If this is the case for you, then it sounds like you could use Evoice. Evoice is great for small business owners and entrepreneurs who want a phone system that can help them field calls efficiently and make them look professional all at the same time. You can even use their call routing tools to set up a dial by name directory, making it easy for your caller and your team to know who should be connected to who. If you're ready to step up your game in 2014 and become more efficient with your business processes, then go to evoice.com enter fire at checkout for $5 off every month forever. That's evoice.com promo code. Fire and Dean, what I really want to do now is talk to you about something that you have going on today that just really has you fired up. Take a couple minutes and share with Fire Nation what really has your engine going right now.

What's really exciting right now is we've been focusing on helping entrepreneurs get their message out there with this concept of the 90 minute book. Joe and I, we always talk about Dan Sullivan being a big influence on us and his whole thing about the 80% approach of getting so many people spend so much time letting their message build up inside of them and working on this epic of getting it until it's just right to get it out there and really being able to realize that you can create a shorter message and get it out into the world. That the big gain comes from not having your message packaged or not having something getting out there and having something done. Same thing with putting out a podcast. I mean, as soon as you start just like what you've done, if you start putting out a podcast and get something out into the world, it immediately brings you along and brings you out, gets your message out there and puts you in conversation. And then the community just grows and grows. And that's something that is if Joe and I had not done the first I love Marketing podcast, even after all those years of conversation, it wouldn't have wouldn't have this global community. So it's really just about helping people, encouraging people to get their message out there.

Dean, I love your message because it's so true that putting your message out there, that being willing to serve with true value and being a podcast host. For me, guys, when I first launched Entrepreneur on fire, I had zero online experience. I was an officer in the U.S. army for eight years. I spent 13 months in Iraq. I mean, I was not building my Twitter following during Those days, wartime environments. I mean, I was literally starting from zero. I had no broadcasting experience, but I wanted to start. And I was willing to build my authority and credibility slowly by providing value day after day after day. And that's what I've now been doing for over 500. And you guys are now the ninth interview. 509th interview that I've done in the past 18 months. And it's been an absolute blast of a journey getting to engage with Joe Polish, Dean Jackson, Seth Godin, Tim Ferriss, Gary Vaynerchuk, just the people that are leading this entrepreneurial surge that we're now experiencing. Joe, let me kind of shift the spotlight to you and ask you the same question. Dean just shared something that has him fired up, which obviously you're fired up in as well, because you guys do so much great stuff together. But what's something else that just really has your flame lit today?

Well, I'm completely stoked always about my Genius Network. I think of Genius Network not just as a company that I have. I think of it as just a methodology, a behavior, ritual, a way that I go about and connect with industry, Transformers. I have a belief that anything that I want or that anyone wants in life can come through their Genius Network. Any problem, any challenge, any opportunity, if it's an opportunity. Who are the best people in your network? The wisdom that's in your network, the skills, the capabilities that are in your network. And if you don't have them in your. Your network, who are these people? Where are they, and how do you connect with them? What's the value that you need to do? With Genius Network, I've got, on my recent podcast I did with dan Sullivan at 10x talk, he made this comment, he said, I wanted to be the first to go on the record that when you start your $100,000 person group, Joe, your 100K group, I'm going to be the first one to join, even before Dean Graziosi. Because Dean's one of, like, he's an infomercial dude, but he's been in the group since the very beginning. Everyone has a network. But do you have a lot of geniuses on there? Because there's, believe me, people can have thousands of followers or fans or Twitter followers. I mean, tens of thousands of millions. And a lot of these people could have no relevance to their life or success. And they could Twitter away a lot of time with people that just have nothing they want to be heard. But. But what is the impact? And there's a big difference between being well known and well paid. And so I'm super excited about Genius Network because through it, I get to help people like Peter Diamandis, who's just transformed what he's already doing and is already a transformational figure. But since he joined my 25k group and just the stuff he's done, even with the people in the group, is amazing. I mean, right? Yesterday I was on the phone for an hour with Arianna Huffington. I'm helping her her with her new book, Thrive. And it's going to create a movement and it's going to be incredible. And she's speaking for the second time at my annual event along with just some of the smartest people on the planet. And that all comes through Genius Network. So, I mean, there'd be something really wrong with me if I didn't pinch myself and just see how well that has brought people together. And I don't want Genius Network to be known for Joe Polish. I want it to be known for the people that are in the group because believe me, there are people in my own group that are far more successful than me. I just happen to be. To be the one. And when I say success, how you define success, I'm talking money. I've got a billionaire in my group. I mean, he makes way more money than me. I'm just able to facilitate groups and bring these people together and that creates value. And I've created my own school that pays me to attend and pays all of my members and clients to attend. And so I think it's awesome and I'm stoked about it.

Fire Nation, if you don't have some goosebumps right now, I think you need to check your pulse. I mean, it's 75 here in San Diego and I'm literally shivering listening to Joe Polish and Dean Jackson here. And just the excitement that is burning within me now, I mean, I just want to go jump in this Pacific ocean I'm seeing right out here, even though that's only about 51 degrees. So that is. That would cool me off pretty quick. But guys, listen, you have come on and you have shared some amazing insights with Fire Nation. And for that I am so truly honored. And Dean, let's end by you giving Fire Nation one parting piece of guidance, the best way that we can find you. And then we'll say goodbye.

Perfect. I think the theme here would be to get your message out there, to start packaging up, looking for leverage, and don't be jump on in. The water's great. Everybody getting your message out there and building your community is really going to be a fantastic journey. It's a life changing journey because the people that you, you meet, it all builds on top of each other. Just like what Joe was saying. So anybody wants to follow me? Joe and I do our podcast every week@ilove marketing.com and that's a great way to connect with us.

Well, Dean, thank you for being a leader of that tribe, for carrying that torch for those like me who happily have picked it up and are following and learning along the way. And Joe, how about yourself? Give Fire Nation one parting piece of guidance. Share the best way that we can find and then we'll say goodbye.

Well, I would say all money earned ethically is a byproduct of value creation, which is something I first learned from Dan Sullivan and I already practiced that. But he put great words to it. Life gives to the giver and takes from the taker. So I think there's a tremendous amount of value that if you are more generous and produce more than you consume and you go in the world and operate that way, it will give back to you many, many times. I'm not saying that to be like some flowery sort of sunshine and unicorn sort of speech. I mean, it really, I think, just happens like Dean said. Yeah, we have a great report that doesn't even sell anything called breakthrough DNA that they can download for free off of ilovemarketing.com, which is where our website is for our podcast, which they can also get on itunes. Of course, if people read it, I think they will have an understanding of there's three areas of your business. There's the before unit, the during unit and the after unit. And if you treat your business as having three separate units, do you need more customers? Do you have enough but you're not getting enough repeat business? Do you need to orchestrate referrals? We have eight profit activators that will apply today with whatever technology is out there and will apply 100 years from now because they're principle based. And so if people want to understand our DNA and what we've used to not only transform our own businesses, but what hundreds of thousands of people that we've helped have done, it's in that free report and on our podcast. So thank you, John, really appreciate taking.

Yeah, thank you so much.

And I must say we're going to going to have an episode with you that's going to be an hour long on I love marketing. So people are going to want to tune into that and hear that episode because it's going to be awesome because we're about to do it after, you know, we're done here. We're going to turn it up to 11.

This one goes to 11.

We're going to take we're going to take this 10 and turn it up to 11 and Joe Dean Fire Nation is well aware they can find the links to everything of value that we've been talking about today@eofire.com they can click on the Podcast tab because this podcast is hanging out in the archives or just enter I Love Marketing in the search bar and their Show Notes page will pop right up. Joe Dean, thank you for being so generous with your time, your expertise and experience. Fire Nation salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks so much Fire Nation. If you're interested in creating your own podcast, then I'd love to invite you to join your me as I share some of the most successful techniques and tactics I use here at Entrepreneur on Fire during our live Podcasters paradise webinar. In addition to sharing my best practices, I'll also give you a sneak peek behind the scenes so you can see exactly what the paradise community has to offer. Claim your spot at our live Podcast workshop today@podcastersparadise.com thank you so much for joining us today on Entrepreneur on Fire. Head on over to eofire.com for full recaps of every show, our amazing blog articles and resources, and just plain fun. Your entrepreneurial journey awaits, so prepare to ignite.