The One Where We Talk ABOUT Gary Vaynerchuk - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #11

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey, everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

One and only the original. Yes, we are here. We are here to serve Dean, right?

Yeah. I don't know what came over you at the beginning of Last Call, because.

I said my name.

We had our first interview with Gary Vaynerchuk. We had our first guest. We invite him to our home. We invite him to our home, our I Love Marketing home. And then we've started 10 episodes in a row. Hey, everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish. And then what do you do the very first time we have a guest?

I say my name first because. Are we going to go back into that Batman and Robin thing again? Do we have to establish some status here? Like, again? I mean, we've already gone through this and, I mean, I think it's kind of funny, though. It was funny. But anyway, let's talk about the call.

Because we got so much good stuff to talk about from the call, from what he talked about, because you and I, here we are, we were up in Toronto together when we did that call. So we're at my house and I'm upstairs on one phone line. Joe's downstairs on another phone line. And. And then we spent a lot of time talking about it afterwards, didn't we? I mean, it's kind of a, you know, it's an interesting perspective. And Gary is a fascinating guy. I mean, there's no doubt the guy's a genius. He's been right about a lot of things. He's done some incredible things with his business and becoming very famous and.

You.

Know, it's a different kind of work style than what maybe you and I have.

Yeah, totally. Well, definitely what you have, because between you and Dan Sullivan, the founder of Strategic Coach, I mean, you two are probably the most balanced individuals that I know that take a tremendous amount of free time while simultaneously creating tons of value in the world for lots of people, making lots of money, and all the way around continually staying on the cutting edge of what works in business and what doesn't, and being teachers at the same time as running a business. There's a lot of people that have big businesses but don't really teach other people what they do and how they do it, whereas you and Dan Sullivan actually do. So you have different work styles. Whereas Gary Vaynerchuk, again, very successful guy, very well known, putting a lot of great information out there, and he's like, you know, a maniac when it comes to work self, admittedly he's on, you.

Know, well, he admitted it right on the call. Working 14 hour days and 7 days a week and doesn't need vacation and loves what he does. And that's a, you know, for a guy like that, it's, you know how, I'll use a word that he always says, it's his DNA. That's his DNA is that he's a hustler and he works just like that.

Yep. And so, you know, we've had a lot of interesting comments. One person that goes by the name of Apples who has commented on our blog, you know, has said a lot of interesting things. Some that I don't really per se think resonate with me in terms of.

You know, I'm looking at all these comments. I think what we, I want to just say something too about all these comments and I think everybody should know that we allow 99.999% of all of the comments that come to the ilovemarketing.com website. So the only ones that we delete are ones that are obviously spam or just self promotion links that aren't contributing to the conversation. That says something. So a lot of people say, well, why don't you just turn people like that off? And I think that it's good for, it's a good healthy discussion to have disparate opinions. And I think that I feel good about allowing them and I feel good about, you know, seeing the conversations that it starts up. And I don't really think he's sort of being disrespectful or anything like that. He hasn't kind of crossed that line. But what I'm going to say to, to Mr. Apples is, you know, I'm looking at this comment page for this particular episode, for episode 10, and you know, there's like 28 or 30 comments here and there's only one person on this whole page who is anonymous. And so, you know, I don't know, there's just something, you know, you look at, we got Lynn Brown here, we got Jordi with their picture. We've got me, we got you, we've got John, we've got people, people having a conversation. So I appreciate everything that Apple says, but I think I'm going to say step up and be a man. Be a person, be a person. Don't hide behind the anonymity.

Yep, exactly. And we've even discussed maybe even making the comments where people literally can only comment if they do really identify, identify themselves as a real person. For the sole reason that we don't want. I love marketing. To become the Internet in the anonymous way. Can very much with discussion boards and with posts and comments. Could have a lot of things that I think happen on YouTube posts where people are just vicious and say insane things and it can become a cesspool for cynics. And the last thing we ever want to have happen is have the discussions become very negative or people just rant because no one knows who they are. And we certainly don't. Like you had said, Dean, if anyone disagrees with us or wants to have any sort of banter back and forth, we're all for it, but we just don't want idiotic comments and things up there because it doesn't serve anyone. And if they're totally offensive or totally over the top, we'll remove them. But at the same time, it's not. Me and Dean definitely have thick skin. I mean, we can handle a lot of stuff. It's just we want this to be a really active, valuable community for people. And I always go back and forth, you look at guys like Seth Godin who doesn't even allow comments on his blog.

I look at our buddy Tim Ferriss, got a healthy comments section on his blog. It's one of the valuable things. So I think it's good and I think we're creating something great. I think we're creating a nice community here. And I think I'm all for having having comments, but I just think it would be nice. It would be nice. Not mandatory, but nice if somebody, especially somebody who's got the potential to be a contributor. I mean, it's obviously a bright person who's got some opinions and is, you know, is doing something great. You know, saying in one of the comments, you know, I've made 25 to 1 on my direct response the past month using their techniques. And I'm not even proficient at. So it's somebody who's doing stuff that would be valuable to hear what they're doing. Yeah.

And we're going to have a lot of different guests because people really responded well to this one. And there are lots of people that are listening to ilovemarketing.com right now. I just went to a conference Yesterday. There's over 1,000 people at it. And I just popped in to see two of my friends speak. One was Brian Tracy, who I've known for over a decade. I've had Brian speak at some of my events. He said I told him about what we're doing with. I love Marketing. He's like, absolutely. Whenever you want me to be a guest, be happy to talk about marketing and how it's impacted his life and his business. And then also Bill Glaser with Glaser Kennedy, Dan Kennedy's company. And I talked to Dan Kennedy, who wrote much of my sales copy the first nine years of my marketing business, Piranha Marketing, and both of them agreed to do I Love Marketing guest calls and talk about what their perspective is on marketing.

Should we tell them the big news?

Go ahead, I'll let you do.

Should we tell them the big news?

Tell them, tell them.

All right, so you guys know that we're having our first I Love Marketing Live event in Phoenix on September 21st. 22nd. And we have invited Dan Kennedy to come and speak at the conference. So if you're a Dan Kennedy fan, as both of us are, we were thinking about. Because really, literally we could have virtually anybody come and talk at the, at the workshop. And I think that this is probably the most fitting person that we could have just simply because he's somebody that both of us sort of were influenced by independently before we even met and was really the guy who, I think he's kept his finger on the pulse of exactly what's been going on in direct response. He's been a big pioneer. So I'm very excited about it. Yeah, yeah.

You know, back in the Gary hobby, I think that he's excited about it.

And he doesn't really get excited about things.

No, no. And we're going to have a phone call with him in a couple weeks and we're going to. Yeah, we're going to do an interview with. For I love marketing. And so we are going to bring some really cool perspectives and unique perspectives and we are going to talk to people about things that you are usually not going to hear them talk about in certain formats. Including like for instance, we just did Gary Vaynerchuk and Gary is a social media freaking technology crazy madman who is just interacting with thousands of people a day, hundreds, one on one. And that takes a tremendous amount of time and there's a trade off for that. And then we have our friend Tim Ferriss, who wrote a couple of major best sellers starting with the Four Hour Workweek and his latest book, the Four Hour Body, of which both me and Eu Dean have done interviews with him on those books independently. And what we're going to do because we want to bring to our listeners different perspectives. One of the biggest things that I think, and this is a true story and he will be listening to this. There's a guy named Howie who actually is a really sharp fitness dude in Arizona. And I met him through a young guy named Anthony Mink that I've been doing some work with and hanging out a bit with. Basically, I met this guy in a gym, LA Fitness. And I was working out this morning at LA Fitness, and he comes up to me, and I'm talking to a guy who's in my building, one of my tenants. His name's Tom Inkledon. He's this nutritional dude. And this guy comes up to me. I haven't seen him since the first time I met him a couple weeks ago. And he says, listen what I'm listening to. He puts the headphone up to my ear and it's you talking. He was listening to I Love Marketing podcast. And he's like. He told me. He goes, I've been listening to all the episodes. This totally has changed my whole perspective on how I look at marketing. I just never quite understood it before. And I love that word perspective. And we want to give people not just our perspectives, we want to give people different perspectives, because everyone that's listening, you are going to, you know, you're going to hear and interpret things, you know, through your own experience, through your own business and the application of it. So we want to introduce to you all kinds of very smart people. And so the complete opposite of how Gary Vaynerchuk, you know, works would be like a Tim Ferriss work week. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So guess what? Setting up a muse.

Yeah.

So the next episode after this one is going to be with Tim Ferriss. You can stay tuned for that one because that will be an upcoming I Love Marketing episode with Tim talking about marketing. And we will ask him about work and all that, and then we will see if him and Gary Vaynerchuk were to get in a fight. Who physically would go down first? We're going to try to. Maybe we can do a live Stream. Gary Vaynerchuk vs. Tim Ferriss Celebrity death match.

We'll get him in the Octagon.

Yeah, but, you know, as a sideshow.

Maybe we could do it as a sideshow in September.

Yeah. Here's what's funny. I actually think Tim is the one that introduced me to Gary.

That's probably originally.

Yeah, so they're friends also. So that's all good. All right, so, Dean, let's talk about. Let's get into it. Let's talk about it.

Okay. So, you know, I think that there were some different opinions on the message board here in the comments. And you know, one of the things was that people maybe felt that Gary kind of, I'll use Apple's words here. The funny thing is he pretty much GV slapped 80 to 99% of everything Joe and Dean are teaching. Basically he said direct response, push marketing will die very soon. But you guys did not at least play devil's advocate. And I don't believe that he was talking about direct response marketing dying. I think when he's talking about push marketing, I don't look at direct response as push marketing because we look at it as attraction marketing and relationship marketing. Everything we've been talking about is attracting people. I mean, we've been talking about finding a target audience. We've been talking about offering them a consumer awareness guide and we've been talking about using education to market with people. And that is a valid model that's not going anywhere. I mean, the vehicles that we have available to deliver those kind of messages to get in front of our target audience are increasing lot more opportunities for it. But there's still something about being able to have a uniformed government employee deliver something right to somebody's front door for 50 cents, you know? Yep, there's something about that that's very appealing, especially in such a digital world. Sometimes having something analog makes a breaks through where all the electronic noise doesn't. You know, it's a visceral experience to hold a direct mail package in your hand, to hold something physical.

Well, you know, I'm getting ready to mail out talking cards with Paula Abdul Talking about my 25k group and how valuable it's been to her. And it's going to be an actual mailing that we're mailing and people are going to open up a card and it's going to be Paul Abdul talking to him and that's going to be very much analog. That's not going to be online and that's, that's going to be an impact that nowhere near could be created online in the same way. Do I know what's going to work? No, I don't. But in the real world it's called failure. In the marketing world, it's called testing. So I'm going to test it and I very much doubt with the right list selection that it's going to fail. I believe it's going to work very well. First off, Gary is not an expert in direct mail and he's not an expert in the things that we're an expert in any more than we, we can claim we're anywhere near an expert in his particular area. So that's why we want to bring different opinions and different skill sets here because it rounds out people's knowledge and education. I think one of the greatest things to take from Gary is just really pushing people into paying attention to things that could be very beneficial and valuable. Do you have to do it? I mean, some of the things Gary says that, yeah, you're going to be left in the dark. I mean, here's the deal. I think me and you, Dean, as an example, would we would still continue to do very well if we never had a Twitter account or a Facebook account and didn't even have a website. Me and you truly know how to make money without even a website. And I have many clients that have used. Well, we made a lot of money.

Before we had websites.

Oh, yeah, of course. Technology is important, but psychology is infinitely more important. And if you don't understand the psychology, you can really go on a lot of weird paths with technology. And the biggest danger with people that are just constantly online and thinking that they should be talking and building a brand is like, well, what the hell are you selling? Because Gary Vaynerchuk has a wine business. He actually has a product that can be delivered and great service that can be delivered with a great product, just like Tony Hsieh does at Zappos, just like a lot of people. People do. And if you're a startup business owner and you really haven't even solidified what it is you actually sell, then you got to get clear on that before you just start going out and talking to everyone to build a brand. I get really leery when people talk about brand building when they don't have any substance. It's useless to build something that doesn't have any substance. And people can occasionally point to weird things that happen that just happen to take off that you can't make any sense of. But I wouldn't count on that. I would really look at real, tangible substance, real products and services, a real need in the marketplace that people want, and then tying in great communication, great delivery, great list. It doesn't matter if you do it online or offline. The point is, who's your community, who's your audience, who are your prospects, and how are you communicating to them? Because there's a comment right on the very first comment from Apple, from Steve Moghan. Is that how you pronounce his name? Maghan? Yeah, sorry, Steve, for butchering your name there, but says, hi, Mr. Apples, I didn't see GVs as in Gary Vaynerchuk's material is contradicting Joe Polish and Dean Jackson. I think GV's approach is the ultimate education based marketing in his case, and daily education about wine. I also see the Consumer Guide as a way of serving potential customers. Once again, I don't see a problem. In general, I see both approaches encouraging us to think, what real value can we give our customers or potential customers? If we can provide value, especially in terms of education, then we're positioning ourselves as experts and our customers will pay for our expertise and products. Some of the very first I love marketing podcasts. We really talked about positioning because marketing really is a positioning game. Like you had mentioned earlier, Dean, it's attraction marketing instead of pushing it on people. Back in 1992 I gave away my first free room of carpet cleaning in order to give something away for free. Now our friends like Evan Pagan talk about moving the free line. And Seth Godin wrote a book a few years after that called Permission Marketing. I mean, we were doing permission marketing and there were many people long before us, decades before us, that were doing position marketing. But that's not typically what ad agencies and brand building organizations or PR companies focus on. It's a completely different thing. That's why so much of our communication is built around that. Just like this podcast. This podcast is education based marketing. Someone commented it might even have been Apple's in a few episodes prior oh yeah, here's the setup. Here's really what these guys are doing. They're just setting it up so that they can sell a conference. And I thought that was kind of a comical comment because I will assure you all of our listeners that first off, we teach marketing. So to say that you should read a book or you should invest in this or invest in that occasionally we're going to do that because that's how we learned. Both me and Dean have spent a fortune on our education, but it's always come back to us. Many, many times. It's been the greatest investment in the world. And so taking the time and your attention to listen and learn is very crucial. And if there's other things that we can recommend that will help you, like stuff for free, like read the Gary Halbert letter that we posted or listen to this podcast, we're going to obviously do that. And if we have a conference like we're having on September 21st and 22nd in Phoenix, Arizona, we're going to say, hey, come to it. But I'll tell you, I've been doing sold out conferences for the last 15 years, long before I love marketing ever existed. So we're not doing this podcast as a setup to try to sell somebody something, as a setup to try to launch a product. None of that at all. We're going to continue to always just share what we consider really useful, valuable, cutting edge advice on marketing effectively. And hopefully you'll find some of our conversations back and forth amusing too. Not just like all technique and tactics, but, you know, for the most part, I think I'm funnier than Dean on certain days. But he would argue, you know what.

I always say to people, I always say to people about that because they always comment how we have a good rapport, a good dynamic on the podcast. And I would say, you know, because we've known each other for a very long time, and I describe it that we have the perfect balance of respect and disrespect for each other.

Yeah, no, it's a good. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, yeah. And I mean, like, people need to freaking lighten up, man. There's so many uptight people on the planet too. I really think the people you love, you should go out and at least dis them a little bit. I mean, scare them, you know, jump out from, you know, behind the closet or something. But don't be cruel.

Just.

Just a little bit of irritation.

So let's talk a little bit about how and when you believe, and I believe that Gary's approach to things is. And let's define what are, what are we calling Gary's approach? I would call Gary's approach like a high touch, one to one type of relationship that he's building. I mean, he's building, you know, real relationships with people.

Yeah, I think he, you know, he calls it social equity. And I think, I think there's a lot to be said, you know, and in other ways you can say goodwill. And I will tell you, you know, I had. You would have loved this, Dean. When I was walking through this conference, I'm not kidding you, I had at least 40 people come up to me in the span of three hours and say, I've been listening to. I love marketing. I love it. Now we're in a concentrated group of marketers that were at InfusionCon because they use Infusionsoft software. I was the second direct marketer ever in the country to ever use Infusion. So I've funneled a lot of money into the original development of this, and I still don't even know how to use the software, which is funny because my team. My staff knows how to use it, so. And we use a bunch of different sort of things, but infusion is one of the things that we use. And all these people were coming up to me and saying how much they love. I love marketing, which is super cool. So hello to all of you guys and gals. But basically he calls it social equity. I look at it as goodwill. And a lot of people, when I was talking to him, I just try to be friendly. But here's my point. When people know you, like you and trust you, even if you've never met them. A lot of people knew me, but I didn't know. And what I realize is when you're really nice and pleasant and you talk and you take the time to say hello, that's not just like another casual conversation. This is someone that you really look up to. And so if I ever go to a book author or someone that I've read their work, I admire them. They've given me an idea that's helped me and I engage them. And, you know, it could be, you know, at a distance, through email or through a phone call or in person. And they're very pleasant and they respond back. I think those people remember it. They remember it at a much different level. And so Gary is trying to do that and not trying. I mean, he does do it very effectively. Day in and day out.

Yeah. And he's there and you can see it. I mean, you follow his Twitter and you see that he's constantly in communication with people every day. He's constantly, constantly tweeting all the time, all hours. And that's one way, you know, that's his way. That's his DNA. He's the guy that. And I really loved the book. I mean, I loved the thank youk Economy because he really talks about the whole progression. And you look, you know, 100 years ago when he's talking about, you know, Bob the Butcher being the family butcher, and everybody walks down to Bob the Butcher, and he knows exactly who you are and he knows what you like, and he goes out of his way to make sure that he sets aside exactly what you like or prepares it, cuts it just the way you like it, because he knows that if he doesn't, that you're going to go down to Bill the Butcher and he's probably lost you, you know, And I think that what Gary's saying is that it's coming back around to that, like now since Twitter and Facebook, literally, it's only been in the last four, five years that we've even had the possibility of being so connected to our friends, to our neighbors, to the people that we know and influence. And you do see it happening. I mean, you see people talking about remodeling their kitchen and taking pictures of it and, you know, showing all the progress of it on their Facebook page. And if that contractor ever did anything wrong, you know, immediately that they're going to get. That's going to get aired on their Facebook page, you know, and you know that another example he uses is, you know, that, you know, when Betty buys a new pair of shoes, that she just got them from Nordstrom's, because she puts it right up there in her status, you know, and so we're definitely. There's not really any way to fight it. It's happening around you, whether you're going to skillfully engage, whether you're going to be somebody who participates on that level and takes advantage of it. And I think that the message that Gary's saying is, if not you, somebody's going to. Somebody is going to. And it might not be your style to do it, but somebody's going to do it. It's an opportunity, but I don't think it's for all businesses. I've been thinking about this a lot, and whenever I'm thinking about things like I was drawing in my journal here, I've got some. I look for polarities, so I really always look for context to see the system that's at play underneath any situation. So when I'm looking at this, I drew some polarities here. And by polarities, I mean just a straight line with one extreme on one end and the other extreme on the other. So on the. The polarity of the frequency of purchase. For instance, depending on your business, if you are in a restaurant or you're in a convenience store or you're in something, there's quite likely the opportunity that somebody is going to purchase your product daily. That's the ultimate frequency there. But if you're like somebody who was on one of the comments of our earlier episodes or in the casket business, somebody's only gonna buy one casket, you know, and you don't know when that's gonna be. And it's not really that comfortable to, you know, continue talking about it early on. You know, it's not something that you'd want to have like a daily communication with your. Your casket vendor, you know?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Well, you know, Joe, I noticed in.

Your Facebook picture that you're looking a little peacock. How would you describe peaked Piquid Meaning pale. You're looking a little dry.

Oh, you're trying to be funny here. I thought you were looking a little sick. I mean, could you.

How you feeling, Joe?

I got, you know, I'm sitting there being all serious, and you're just trying to be kind of funny.

It's not a funny story, but that's one polarity, you know? And you look at it, somebody carpet cleaning somebody may get their carpets cleaned once every six months. Some people may get it done once a year. Somebody might buy a house every seven years. Somebody might buy a new car every three years. They might send their kid to college one time. So there's lots of variables, even just in the frequency of purchase that are going to determine how you approach that.

Yeah. And what I will say also, too, is just from my own speaking, from my own kind of way of going about doing things, I don't ever want to have to set something up where I am constantly at the beck and.

Call.

Of email and electronics because I believe for me, it's extremely unhealthy to be staring at a computer screen all day long. And I think your brain functions better when you can disconnect. And there are times where I will take free days for a week or two weeks at a time. I remember, like, oh, God, how many months ago was this? Last year I went to Bali for over a week, and then prior to that, I went to Vietnam with Tim Ferriss, on vacation for nine days with Tim and several other just great people. I went to Galapagos for 10 days, and the entire month I literally did not go online except for during the week. Well, first off, in Galapagos for 10 days straight, I didn't even look at a computer screen because, you know, I didn't want to. I wanted to be completely disconnected. But in between Vietnam, what's that?

How did you feel?

Oh, I mean, unbelievable. So for the entire month I didn't work. I mean, I literally did not work. I went online in between to, like, find restaurants and things like that, but I wasn't checking email. I mean, for an entire month. And I think it's awesome. And I have a team of people that. Were there things that were missed? Were there opportunities? Yeah, of course. But so what? Dan Sullivan has this great thing like if you go out swimming in the ocean as an example, and you're out there for a while and you come out of the ocean and you're walking up on the beach and someone comes up to you and says, how was the swim? How was the surfing? Whatever you're doing. You don't say it was really great, but I missed a lot of the ocean. You're never going to get the whole ocean. That's the challenge with going into responding to everyone and trying to reach and touch everyone. Gary Vaynerchuk, it's in his DNA. I think a lot of people are not well served to be online all day long and trying to communicate with us. And I think a lot of people in a lot of businesses, like you're saying, most of my professionals, carpet and upholstery cleaners, and there's many of them that are listening to this podcast, they do not need to be online all the time, communicating with everyone, having a giant Twitter following if they like it and it fits great. I have a couple of people that the Michelsons as an example. Mickelsons, I always say their name wrong. They're fantastic with Facebook. They just do so much, much business and everything through Facebook and they do an awesome job and they love it. It totally fits in with what they do and how they do it. But other people don't. I think everyone should write this down and take everything that we said Gary Vaynerchuk said, and put it up against your own business, your own life experience and your own behavior and your own DNA of what you are good at and what you're not good at. And it's the Peter Drucker quote that is there's nothing more useless than doing really well that which need not be done at all. There's nothing more useless than doing really well that which need not be done at all. I was talking to Frank Kern a while back about Twitter and Facebook and he was saying that if you're going to pick one or the other, you're better off picking one and doing one really well than trying to do two of them half ass. And I tend to agree with that. So whatever you're going to jump into. What's that? Yeah, I agree with that too. Whatever you're going to jump into. First off, know that if you're going to pick a platform, you're going to actually use the platform and it's not going to use you. Most people don't use email, it uses them. Most people don't use Facebook, it uses them. Them. And so I would recommend you use the stuff and you utilize the stuff. Don't get, don't become a prisoner of it. And you can become a prisoner of it. And some people want to, I mean, they want to live in that world. I don't want to live in that world to that extent, you know, and.

So, you know, you look at, you know, so Gary, everything about what Gary has done, it's been daily videos, daily tweeting, constant tweeting, being engaged, getting going everywhere, every conference meeting, everybody in person, being on all the media. And it's like we said, it's not work for him. He's not having to discipline himself to do this. It's in his DNA. He has to do that, he's compelled to do that. And certain people are like that. And I think, you know, whether that's you or not, you know, I think. And it's just as the more important thing, I think what you were saying was when you have interactions with people and they're going to remember that if they know you, like you and trust you, you know, Tim Ferriss has built a very successful, very rabid following with doing a, you know, twice a week on a blog, sometimes once a week, not blogging every day or multiple posts during the day. He's gone and he'll talk about this when we, when we talk to him over chose, you know, quality over quantity in terms of doing less frequent posting but more meaty articles. I've even before we do the, we started doing the I Love Marketing podcast. I've built a very successful business on a weekly podcast for, you know, I have had one of the, one of the very first podcasts out back in 2005 when it first all started. Started the Marketing Monday podcast and built a very successful business on a once a week podcast. So, you know, I think it, you really get into doing what you're doing and focus more on adding value, you know, is that, I think that's the bigger question is can I add value to somebody? You know, where you look at, if we talk about those polarities again and talk about somebody who's doing something daily, who could consume something daily or weekly or monthly. I think you want to have more frequent communication with somebody like that. But if you're in a business where they're only going to consume your product once, like casket, then it may make total sense to have a Consumer's guide to buying caskets and have that as the only, you know, you've got one communication with people and you're going to educate them and lead them to, to making the right decision and you're not gonna, you know, have a daily, the daily casket video, you know.

Exactly, exactly. So yeah, a lot of these, I.

Got a couple of more of these polarities that help kind of distinguish these things because I really have been thinking about this, about how, how to make, when it makes sense and how to know when it makes sense. So the, the second polarity that I have is the, the timeline. And so the timeline being that the very short timeline on one end now that somebody, an impulse purchase, somebody's going to make a decision on they're going to look at your product and they're going to buy it right now, versus a decision that on the other end may take them years to decide on what they're doing, going to do, or they research things or they only, you know, do it frequently or infrequently. Might be something like, like buying a house. It's gonna, some people start that process a year or 18 months ahead of time, you know, before they actually, before they actually do anything. I imagine, you know, parents start shopping, colleges, you know, years ahead of time, you kind of target towards a certain thing. So I think when you look at your business and you start to think what is the life cycle or the buying cycle? Is it now or is it long term? Another one would be on one end, is it a local business that the people who are consuming the services or products that you offer, are they consuming them within five miles of where you are right now? Or are you serving on the opposite end of the spectrum, a global market building what Hugh McLeod would call a global micro brand, where you're located, where you are, but you've got people buying your product from all over the world. The final one I had was price. Is it a low price item that's maybe a buck or a couple of bucks or under $20, all the way up to a high price item where they might be spending a million dollars for a custom home? I think all of those things, I think if you kind of look at that, it kind of can help guide what makes the most sense and how frequently or how, you know, how you should communicate with people.

That's what I'm trying to say. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Yeah.

So Dean, what I would like to do, I'd like to actually comment on a couple. Well, what's the other polarity? I don't want to get you off track here because I'm really good. That was all that was.

Also frequency, are they going to buy, is it a daily frequency or is it a once in a lifetime thing? The next one was the life cycle or the buying cycle. Is it right now or is it, you know, two years from now? The proximity, is it local or are you serving the Global market. And the price, is it low price or high price? Where do you fit on that? You know, so if you look at something like wine, you know, Gary does the daily videos. You've got something that somebody might consume probably not daily, but weekly. Maybe it might be something that there is a very short life or short buying cycle. They decide they want something, they're going to buy it right now. They're not going to kind of, you know, they're not going to kind of weigh all their decisions on a $30 wine purchase. They might buy something impulsively like that. And you know, he's serving a multiple state market, some states he can't ship to, but all within the United States, basically. And I would say a moderately priced, moderately priced item.

There's a lot of impulse buys too. You look at things like Groupon that developed a system to bring to many, many people what many of the, obviously the clients of Groupon, the businesses that offer specials in order to acquire a customer for an unbelievable price based offer. Groupon actually created a very successful model of, you know, delivering it's local businesses.

And you get them every day. You know what the one was today? It was pretty interesting because I had to click through to take a look today in Winter Haven. Today the offer was for 75% off at mattress firm. They're mattress. Do you have mattress firms in Phoenix or is it a Florida company? You do have mattress firms.

I'm almost positive we have mattress firms here.

Yeah, yeah. So there's six locations in between Winter Haven and Lakeland and 75% off. But here's what it was, is you could buy a $200. You could buy a $200 gift card, I guess is what it was, a $200 towards a mattress for $25.

Wow.

Now that's interesting, isn't it? $50. You could buy a $200 Gift Card towards a mattress for $50. But the offer was 75% off, which it was. So you're thinking, oh, are they selling mattresses for 75% off? But they sold, you know, a portion of it lower price than it's probably, let's say the lowest price mattress might be $400. And they're giving somebody, you know, $200 of that for $50. And they're going to apply that to the $400 mattress, the lowest priced mattress. So they're going to have to pay an extra $200. So they're basically the worst case scenario is that they're going to take the, they're Going to end up selling a $400 mattress for $250. But on the other end, somebody might buy that $50 and buy a $5,000 Tempur pedic bed.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's a client grab methodology. And what's kind of interesting about Groupon and how smart it is, I think it's the fastest billion dollar business in history. What they did is they provided a vehicle to bring in a boatload of clients. They basically have done the initial marketing for a tremendous amount of people based on lifetime value of a client. They have made a fortune doing it. And they've also helped really build a lot of businesses. But here is the cool thing too, which a lot of people don't understand because we talk about the power of words and copy. Groupon actually has copywriters on staff that put together the right way to convey and communicate the offer. It's all about offers. It's all about copy. It's all about the list. And list happens to be the Groupon list. And a lot of it is impulse buys. And the follow up is very good because, I mean, I've bought one thing. No, two things, actually. I had my assistant, Eunice actually buy a yoga thing for me, which I ended up giving away. Actually. I do yoga quite a bit. Just so everyone out there, if you really need to know, that's what keeps.

You so sexy and trim.

Oh, totally. I can put my legs behind my head on Paul Abdul's here. I'm going to just name and try to make it sound like I'm actually saying something, but it's just purely my insecurities causing me to name drop. Paula Abdul has on. We were out dancing in San Francisco one night, me and Paula, and we were out with.

Who else was with us?

Gail and Eunice. And I don't dance. I'm like, I get embarrassed by dancing publicly and stuff, but I'm with Paula Abdul and I'm like, so we have to dance. And so we're out there dancing at this club.

Embarrassing enough just walking around.

I'm amazed none of this ever showed up all over YouTube and stuff, because there were cameras and pictures everywhere. It's bizarre. I don't even know how that happened, but I'm sure they're out there. I just haven't seen them. But anyway, at the end of the night, I showed Paula some yoga moves and I actually put my freaking feet behind my head, which looks absolutely ridiculous. And she took a picture of it. And I've actually shown this in presentations like the picture, because I'm like, what the hell? I might as well make myself look like an idiot. But that's what comes up on her phone when I call is that picture of me with my feet behind my head. I just thought I needed to say that. But prior to that, what the hell were we talking about so I can get back on track? I just had an ADD moment. Remember we were talking about Groupon, but yoga? No, no. Okay, yeah. See what happens? I say yoga and it just goes. You guys see what I live? Do you see what I go through? Do you see what I go through?

Imagine spending an entire week with this guy.

Bright shiny objects. Welcome to my world. Yeah, exactly. The other thing is I bought gift certificates for an online organic food place. I have not used these things yet. And this was like a couple months ago. Groupon did a great job of following up to remind me to use the stuff that I bought. And I thought, man, that's really great because so many of these things people don't use. And so that's why a lot of it, it's breakage, it's non usage of some of the things that people use. And so they still collect the money, but they actually made a point to say, remind you to spend, use your gift certificate. So I thought that was super cool. So the point is, and how this relates to everyone out there, it's still about off, it's still about targeting. Not every single technique and methodology is going to work for you. Just like the Peter Drucker quote, you want to pick the things that are going to be effective. And one thing I want to dispel, and we're going to say this and it'll probably be redundant, but me and Dean, and Dean, if you disagree with anything I'm about to say, by all means, type in. Me and Dean are big proponents and believers of spending money on advertising at work. I mean, people brag constantly in this new social media world that I don't spend any money on advertising. Advertising is dead. No one would do this, no one would do that. But you're going to spend time, money and energy and attention to generate business. And if you want to take the social media route, you don't want to do any pr. You want to go out and organically develop relationships and grow your business and all that sort of stuff. And you're never going to buy banner ads and adwords and you're never going to run an ad on TV or radio or whatever. That's nothing to brag about. If you can Spend a dollar and it will bring back $5. And you can do that. And you can do that using robotic marketing methods that we've been teaching on prior episodes. Yeah, it's crazy. And to brag about it like you're smart because you don't spend any money on advertising. Advertising is kind of idiotic in a lot of ways. There are people that I see, they'll be like, they really want to grow their business and they'll spend hours in front of a computer trying to interact with the least productive sort of clients. When you can simply do a targeted direct mail campaign or run an ad online or offline and drive a tremendous amount of business that is attracted, well positioned, educated in advance and they show up, up on your site or calling you pre interested, pre motivated, pre qualified and predisposed to give you money. Any method that you can do that's elf easy, lucrative and fun, you should do it. I'm not one of these people that's ever going to say advertising is dead or please, it doesn't make any sense. Now, it may be dead for your business or whatever, but I'm yet to see a business that that actually applies to. So learn how to.

Are we going to have to go to the yellow Pages again?

Yeah, yeah, we'll have to do the yellow page roulette again. Yeah, absolutely. So what I want to do, Dean, first off, I want to acknowledge the people that have given us comments on this on the episode 10 with Gary Vaynerchuk. That would be John. John Hawes, Marcus Stoltz, Tracy Wilkerson, Robert Bridge, Lynn Brown. We've got Kate Austin.

I was reading Lynn's comment that Lynn agrees with everything that Gary said. See, I think that there's something about, and I keep using Gary's word DNA, that there's something about this is either in your DNA that it resonates with you and you really, you want to be out there communicating with people all the time, connected to people all the time, or you don't. And, you know, there's nothing, nothing wrong with that because there's lots of rooms. I mean, if we did the, if we had the polarity, you know, if we had the polarity of being constantly in communication with people and, you know, being instantly connected, we'd have Gary on one pole, we could have Dan Kennedy on the other pole. Who doesn't have a cell phone, doesn't exactly go online, doesn't go on the Internet, uses a fax machine to communicate with them. Yep.

I'm one of the few People that have Dan's home number and he prefers fax. That's how he communicates. And, you know.

Yeah.

So, I mean, what the hell?

That'll be interesting. That'll be great, too. When we. When we have. When we have Dan.

Yes. So basically our event, if you want to actually come to our event, at the time we're doing this podcast, we don't even have a sales letter. Our own existing clients in Piranha that we've gone out to and stuff. We've got over 125 people registered right now. We will totally sell this thing out. The price point. And I will say it. Should I say the price point or. Let's leave that out of here.

Let's surprise them. I think that the best thing for people to do right now is to go to ilovemarketing.com and leave their name and their email address to get on our notification list because we'll send out everything to everybody with all of the information over the next few weeks here.

Okay? And by the way, it says, want mouth opening marketing ideas by electronic mail. And there's that very handsome fellow in black and white with his mouth open. And then it says your name and your email. Get the love. And just click the get the love button and you will be on there. And me and Dean promise you, we will never turn I love marketing into a blatant sales pitch where all we're trying to do is, is sell people something. What we want to sell you on. Now, let me say that in the right context. What we want to sell you on is the belief and understanding of direct response marketing as being the most effective way that you can grow and build your business. Our goal is to give more valuable information away here for free than what most people would charge for. And many people have told us we absolutely have done that with the episode that we've posted. I want to also, those of you on Ed Dale's list, thank you, Ed, for sending out a blast about this podcast and telling people. And thank you, Frank Kern, because our friend Frank Kern notified a lot of people on his list about it. And then Phil Brown. And then we've got Richard and who else? We got Lynn Brown again here. We got Jordi. And look at you, Dean, the very handsome fellow. We got John and Jessica. I really appreciate everyone making the comments. Please let us know. Dean, we need to wrap up here in a few minutes, so I want to let a sane individual like you actually guide people into what to do next and what we're going to talk about on the next episode and any other words of wisdom and pearls that you want to share. And I want this to be really good. Whatever you're going to say.

Perfect. Well, we got a couple of minutes, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to.

You're going to make some weird static noise back there. I just heard that. I don't know what's going on there.

I don't know what that was. We've been talking about Twitter and people saying that you can't really. They've never seen anybody make any money on Twitter or. Or turn it into anything. And so I'm going to turn people on to what's right in the middle. It's happening right now is that Kevin Smith, who's the filmmaker, you've probably seen him around over the years, he's the filmmaker that made Clerks and Chasing Amy and Jay and Silent Bob and Zach and Miri make a porno and. And all these movies that you've maybe seen. Well, on his latest movie, he made a movie called Red State. And Red State is what he's calling a horror movie, a psychological horror movie kind of thing, which is about a group of people who are very similar to the Phelps family from Westboro Baptist. If you see those. The people who, they were just in the news again today, they're gonna picket Elizabeth Taylor's funeral.

You know, they go.

They're the ones that picket all the soldiers funerals and, you know, kids funerals. And they've got all their. They're just. It's a hateful, you know, group that they're out promoting and ticketing all of these. All these things with signs that say God hates fags and all kinds of hateful things that they're out doing. And so Kevin's movie is about a group of kids that fall into a group like this. And the movie, if you have been following everything on online, is premiered at Sundance. And Kevin Smith has been doing something very interesting here. He's decided to self distribute his movie. And so typically, he did a great talk at Sundance about the state of the movie industry. And he's really using social media to completely, you know, reinvent the way that movies get distributed. And so he tells the story about how the math of the movies works. He spent $4 million, low budget, to make this movie. And he was talking about how he could sell that movie right there at Sundance for probably $6 million, maybe $7 million that night. And what a studio would do is they would put. Or a distributor would do is they'd put. Put $20 million into advertising that movie and running, you know, coming soon, trailers and newspaper ads and all the things, you know, to let people know that the movie's out there. And now all of a sudden, his. His $4 million movie needs to make $26 million just to break even before it's even been out to see anybody. So what Kevin had decided to do was bypass that whole industry, and he's got 1.8 million Twitter followers. And this guy is a Twittering fool. I mean, he tweets constantly. It's something as a lesson to kind of observe here, because here's a guy who's on tour right now. He's taking the movie all across the country at big theaters. He started at Radio City Music Hall. He's working his way across across the country. He's going to end up in Los Angeles at the Wiltern Theater. But to watch somebody who's making money with Twitter and directing, you know, turning over an entire industry, it's something wonderful to see happening. And there's a lot of lessons to be learned from it. You know, he's much more like Gary Vaynerchuk as far as his DNA goes. It's all about the conversation. It's all about being in communication with his audience. And so if you want to follow along with that and love to hear your comments on it, you can follow KevinSmithWitter.com that Kevin Smith. And there's a lesson. There's somebody who's, you know, he's already. This little tour here is gonna. Is going to, you know, gross them over. I think it was a million and a half dollars or something like that for the month of March, doing this tour with zero advertising, all on Twitter and getting out there and his podcasts. So.

Yep. Yeah, the point is you can use that, and people should watch the video because I think it's really fascinating, and I think he's a really sharp.

I'll put the video up on the blog for us. Okay.

Yeah, do it. Do it. It's really cool. And someone actually videotaped it.

Sitting in.

The audience and then posted it online at Sundance. Yeah. And let me also mention one of the things. Within a week of putting a free recorded message on my Twitter page, someone called the free recorded message and bought $3,000 worth of stuff from my company, Piranha Marketing. So if you want to see my Twitter page and how to have a free recorded message on there, just go to twitter.com JoePolish and you will see the Silly pictures of me. We just put up a new background, but there's a little post it note graphic that has a free recorded message. And if you actually look at that, you will see how we actually use Twitter to get people off of Twitter to call a free recorded message if they really want to. And if anyone wants a really cool Twitter page done, we can do that. But we are not like 99designs. We are more expensive. But we actually have a design company called Piranha Marketing Design and it's Piranha P I R A n h a marketingdesign.com and I'm not giving you that just so you can buy something, but if you want to actually see what it is we've done, go to that site, click on clients and then click on Paula Abdul and you can see her Twitter background because it will take you right to her Twitter page which has 1,894,628 followers as of right now. And on the left hand side of Paula Abdul's page where you can buy Paula's music on itunes, on Amazon, you can friend her on Facebook and you can get involved in a nonprofit thing that she does. And that's all right on the Twitter page. So there are these response mechanisms and you can see examples of how we've actually incorporated direct response, marketing and response mechanisms into the design of some of our clients. So that will give you an example. But yeah, that's it. So that alone, if you are on Twitter or any sort of social media, you can pick up ideas just from doing that. And follow Kevin Smith because yeah, very sharp dude. So Dean, any final thoughts?

If you want to see a Twitter page from a guy that rarely Tweets and has 11,000 followers, you could go to the Dean Jackson the as in the Thedean Jackson twitter.com Thedean Jackson I like the page. I'm looking at it right now. It's great.

It's pretty funny, huh?

I'm going to redo mine.

We'll do it for you gratis just because you're such a handsome fellow. Stay tuned because the next guest episode we're going to have is with Mr. Tim Ferriss and we're going to talk to him about marketing and how he does marketing, which you're rarely going to hear the type of things that we're going to have Tim reveal on the next episode of I love marketing. And so you're on itunes. Go check out our page if you actually want to see some of the videos and stuff that we post. And if you're going to make a comment, man up. And that applies to men and women, and identify yourself. And if you're going to say anything negative, then identify who you are as a real human being. And we appreciate all of you listening. And until next time, have yourselves a wonderful week. Thank you.

Thanks.