The One With Ben Altadonna - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #124

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish and.

This is the I love marketing podcast.

Hey everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

Say that slowly.

Dean.

Joe Polish. Yeah. Yes.

All right, here's the deal.

We got a very special, we got a special guest today, so we're going to get right on into it. His name is Ben Altadana. Very, very sharp marketer. I've got a short little blurb about Ben. Although I've known him for, gosh, probably 15, 20 years. Ben is a solid information and service oriented marketer. Another Dan Kennedy era success story. He also has many years experience creating products, seminars and services, as well as creative on and offline ways of selling them. He's also a pretty uncommon dude. He doesn't go out of his way to meet people or network, which is true. He identified his strengths and built a multimillion dollar business around it that enables him to basically stay home and under the radar. Now that's some stuff about him, that blurb I had, but he's a doctor, he's actually a chiropractor and he's one of the top, he's one of the top marketers, trainers, coaches, consultants in the world to that industry, probably bigger than anyone that I know. And he's just very, very sharp. And he's also in Genius Network 25K. He's smart as heck. So, Ben, real pleasure to have you as a guest on I love marketing. Been looking forward to this for a while.

Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Joe. Hi, Dean. How are you guys doing?

It's all very exciting.

It's an honor. I've been listening to I love marketing for a long time. I didn't expect this opportunity. And for the listeners, I have no agenda, nothing to sell. I'm doing this for my affection to Joe and my new relationship with Dean. And as a marketer, speaking to everyone on the call, we're all in the same boat. We all try to provide value and I'm here to help in any way I can today. Awesome.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, I've known you for a long time, we go way back. And you're definitely a direct response guy that understands and gets persuasion. The power of marketing, time management, I mean, you name it, you're very effective. You're very efficient. Since this is called I love marketing, maybe the first thing to ask you is why do you love marketing? Where did this all start? Maybe give some background of how you got into doing what you gained.

I'm going to only say things I believe are relevant to this call or of value to the listeners because we all have our unique stories. But I think there's some parallels and commonalities that I think everybody on this call could relate to. Yeah, you're right. I am a chiropractor. I'm licensed, been licensed since December 90. I practiced for, gosh, eight years and I did very well. You know, right out of school I got my license, I bought a practice and I practiced near San Francisco Airport. I don't think you knew this, Joe. And most of my patients were either flight attendants, which was cool, and airline mechanics and aviators, you know, the pilots. And I also saw San Jose Sharks, a lot of hockey players and most of the airline industry patients that I had had awesome insurance. They had Connecticut General. I still remember the name of the darn company. Great reimbursement, low deductibles, low co pays and so you, you know, going out of the shoot, I had a thriving practice in Foster City, California. Really nice areas, beautiful. You know, I was just. And I was a good chiropractor, I really was. So I was pretty confident right out of the bat. And I always had that confidence gene, even though I wasn't competent. And I think that's not necessarily bad if it's harnessed and you're humble and you're willing to learn because we all make mistakes. And through the years, I'm 51 now. I think all of us are better people as a result of our experiences and more competent and we have actually stuff willing to sell people. There's a bad part about marketing is people can learn how to sell things that are of no value. And for those people, you might as well just hang up the phone right now because we don't want anything to do with you. But if you do have something to sell and a story, a personal story, which I think is important, it's not very hard to use marketing to create relationship, create build rapport in the most efficient way, which is obviously by the use of media, by the use of communication, and by having a message that vibrates and is congruent with the pre existing wants of the marketplace. But going back to my story, I practiced there for two years in Foster City. I was still single at the time and I'm from the Bay Area, so I had an itch to move. So I moved to Folsom, California, about two hours away on the way to Lake Tahoe. It's actually a prison there and Johnny Cash wrote a song about it. I don't remember the name, but it's A beautiful foothill community full of oak trees and rolling hills and a lot of outdoor sports. And I'm pretty outdoorsy kind of guy. So I opened a practice two hours away. But the problem there was there was no airport there that had the type of patients that I was used to treat. I was in an area, unbeknownst to me, that was basically the epicenter of managed care, which most people don't know it was invented by. It came out of Sacramento, California, which was just down the hill about 35 miles. So I found myself in a position where procuring patients that could afford my services were far and few between. And so I was struggling. About six months into it, I realized that I need to do something different to market my practice. Because before I didn't even have to market it. I was in the Yellow Pages. There was no Internet to say of in those days. Or maybe there was. When was Internet like, do you guys know. Even knowing, you know.

Well, I mean, it was actually, well, gosh, probably it was invented early 90s.

I know, not invented, but like actually used in a map.

It wasn't until like 96. Yeah, exactly, 96 and 97, when AOL was blanketing America with their free discs.

I still have my AOL account. I'm shame, shameful. But anyway, so I'm out there in Sacramento in the hot sun, in the summertime, single. In my. At this point, I was early 30s. I graduated from chiropractic college late. I was like 30 years old. Bottom line is, I'm out there in the hot sun, all my friends are water skiing and jet skiing and having a great time. And I'm out there doing what in the industry was called and still exists, unfortunately, spinal screening. So I'm out there creating a booth out on a cherry festival or a home show or a boat show, trying to attract customers. And obviously we all know that positioning is terrible. But I didn't know any better, and I don't think the industry knew any better. And so that's what I did to build my practice up in Sacramento. Nevertheless, to make a long story short, it was still a difficult practice. Patients were coming and leaving quickly. They just could afford, just barely afford to get out of pain and they leave. So I found myself selling that practice. But before I did, for about four months, I ended up living in my office to cut expenses. So I slept in my office, took a shower at the gym, had my clothes in public storage, had some clothes in my trunk of my car that had like 180,000 miles on it. And you know, the turning point for me was when my parents came up to visit me two hours away. They didn't know I was living in my office. I broke it to them. I also broke down, you know, in tears. I had a. Basically a nervous breakdown. And that changed my life, that moment. Because to see your parents, who love you dearly, you know, suffer, I can't even explain what it was like. So the bottom line is, at 33 and a half years old, I moved back home with my parents broke. I sold my practice for $15,000, barely recouped the cost of the X ray machine and the build out for that one room because that's a lot of leaded Sheetrock. And I took a loss and moved home with my folks back to Hayward, which is like only about 20 miles from where I was succeeding at the time and at near the airport, and opened a practice from scratch in Hayward on Jackson Street. And then I found out about Dan Kennedy and learned about marketing. And, and at that point, I knew at the moment, because I got it the moment I listened to these cassettes, I knew my life was my future. My worry was over. No more anxiety, no more focusing on the past. It totally changed my life. Even before I implemented it, I got it. And I was so excited going through this material that I started creating marketing material for my practice. Mostly TV commercials, lead generation. And I sold my practice a year later because I ended up sharing the technology and these strategies with other chiropractors. So I sold my practice a year later and helped the profession. And this was back in gosh. This was in 1998, I believe it was Joe. I think he started in marketing like two, three years ahead of me. So it was like in 98, I began transforming how chiropractors position themselves, which is a big takeaway up to this point. We'll get into more now. We just got through the boring stuff. But the bottom line is, you know, people have to be aware of how you position your product and how you represent yourself in the industry, because every industry has a reputation. Every industry has, you know, skeletons in the closet, and you have to deal with it. And so I've helped chiropractors deal with it by teaching them to be more market focused, not based on what they want people to, to buy just because they're passionate about it and never look back. I've been busy ever since. You know, we've done seminars, coaching, everything you can imagine to help chiropractors. But I've evolved in the last. Whatever the math is 14, 15 years. My business has evolved, and you've helped me a lot, Joe. I've observed you in your business, which is a big part of my success, I think, is I've always observed people that were either more ambitious or. Or more successful, provided that I respected them. And so it's very important who you hang with. So the bottom line is we went from selling information products exclusively, and back then it was in cassettes and manuals to, you know, doing seminars and other products and services, including a lot of joint. What we call joint ventures, which is an inaccurate term, but joint selling other people's stuff to my customers, which is something you have to be very careful doing, in my opinion, because it really can dilute your uniqueness and could jeopardize your relationships with your customers. Because you have to always be concerned with their perceptions, not what the facts are. Even if the facts surpass their perceptions, typically they will. So you have to be careful about that. So we've evolved now using my marketing experience to a product. Now that is more of a done for you, which is something we can talk about if you like. The bottom line, and I'll leave it, let you ask me another question. I'm sorry to run so long, but I can talk forever on this stuff. The bottom line is just because you know, a marketing strategy doesn't mean it's a good fit for your industry, for your product, or you have to be aware of how it's perceived. And as a result of being in 25k, I've learned that there's. You call it elf, I think. What's that? Easy, lucrative, and fun.

Yep.

Is that correct, Joe? That is it. But you also throw around the word and I don't know where you got it at, or maybe you invented it, but. And it's hard to describe, but I get it, which is like elegant. How do you, you know, how do you have a business or a systems or process or business model that's elegant. And to me, if you ask me what elegant would be, and I may be wrong, but this is how I define it and how I use it as a filter as to what I say yes or no to is. Does it. Is it congruent with my core values? Is it congruent with how I run my business? And is it how I want to run my business? And is it congruent with what people my customers will not only perceive positively, but actually consume or implement? Because oftentimes we have all of us listening, have clients that should be doing things because we know darn well would help their business, but they just don't want to do it. And so the key in my business I have found it might not be true in everybody's is give your customers try to make sure they're going to win and they're going to do it because they have to like the process. And not only it's not just about the results, they think it's just about the results. They need to probably more than US's. US's can endure discomfort, but most of the clients are not, they haven't trained themselves yet and that's our job to become more accurate in their thinking, more efficient in the use of their time and more their ability to manage their emotions. But you know, when we process our new members initially, you know, it takes years, it's not weeks or months. And so that's really what my business is about is helping doctors think accurately and helping them provide marketing message and a product that gives the consumers what they want first. And then if they need more than what they want initially, then even that's a whole other discussion. And there's an art to that as well.

Yeah, you know what Dean, I'll give you a chance to ask any questions and stuff because I know Ben so well that I could go on and on. So I want to get your perspectives and insights but what you just went through, really valuable several nuggets. One especially. Thanks for sharing the whole part about having the nervous breakdown at 33 years old, moving back into your parents home. I mean it's not that we ever want to wish that on anyone. It just gives people a real context of what people go through in the quest for entrepreneurship. Because when people see you being very successful running a multi million dollar company, a lot of times they don't know all the shit you had to go through in order to get there. Get into a state where you actually learned what you needed to. Not out of inspiration, but out of desperation in some cases. Secondly, love that you Talked about with JVs can dilute your impact. So I want to come back to that. And then the whole part about done for you which I want to ask you about. And then finally the being aware of how things are perceived, having an elegant business. What I wrote down is congruent with your values, how your customers and clients perceive you consume, what it is you sell, implement what you teach them. If you're in the how to business and then giving your clients and customers and patients the ability to win, that's huge. And that they got to like it. I love the thing you just said about us's. People like us that are in this business can endure discomfort and most people can't. I really made a note of that because that is so fricking true. And when I first learned marketing, I thought everyone would just do this stuff. This is before I was actually even teaching it to people. I remember I first learned this whole concept of using sales letters and the ability to can and clone yourself because back then there was no Internet. I mean I had my first website in 1996, but basically when I first learned this stuff there was no. So when I had my consumer awareness guide, my educational stuff, the free reports, the 24 hour free recorded message in my carpet cleaning company, I was afraid to even massively start advertising it in the beginning, within the first few months of me learning it because I thought, oh, other carpet cleaners are going to see this and they're going to implement it and do a better job than even I do in my own cleaning company. And then fast forward to today, we can give this stuff away for free. And many people don't even implement it. Although these are like could be multi million dollar ideas. I love marketing and some people won't even do it. So the ability to endure discomfort, that doesn't apply to everybody. The whole thing about thinking accurately, you're so right on. And there's so much wisdom just in what you said there if people picked up on that. So anyway, I just wanted to kind of restate what it is that I said because I think if people got nothing else even about this episode, just hearing and thinking about that and saying what is an business? Because yeah, easy, lucrative and fun could also be elegant, lucrative and fun because we have said that before. Another way of looking at elf. So Dean, what are your thoughts? Any questions for Ben?

Well, I think it's going to be interesting to hear the parallels because we all came from the same model. We all started out in a business that we ended up then taking and applying marketing to to grow our own businesses and then grew that into helping other people in chiropractic, in carpet cleaning, in real estate to grow their business. So it's the, there's perfect parallels there. And it's always interesting to see and hear how people approached that because a lot of times people who are listening are in businesses like that, they're applying it to their own business and they feel like, wow, this could really work for other businesses. So it'd be good to hear the evolution of how that unfolded too.

No Doubt. You mentioned free. You can give your product, Joe, to carpet cleaners for free. And some wouldn't even implement. They may feel overwhelmed or what have you. I think that you could even say that there are chiropractors and carpet cleaners and many small businesses that if they gave their product away to their consumers, their customers, their patients, I mean actually, you know, had a sign in front of their office, free chiropractic care. Most chiropractors would not be busy. So we're so hyper focused on pricing. We're so hyper focused on things that we feel are not related to who we are and how we are that we focus on those variables versus the core issue, which is are you likable, Are you believable, Are you honorable, Are you credible, are you empathetic? That experience I had living at home and it's not a made up story, it was dark time for me. It gave me the ability to relate to chiropractors at a level that for most of them is unnecessary, it's overkill. But they feel like they can, that I'm one of them. And I think it's important as we, all of us have climbed ourselves out of the trenches, to still keep one foot in the trench. Because most of our clients are there and if they can't relate to you because you, you cannot relate to them anymore, or for some marketers, their customers or clients, they're even repulsed by them. That's not a good place to be. And sometimes you need to, before you learn how to market what you have to sell, really try to eliminate, which is a Dan Sullivan thing, I believe, strategic coach, eliminate a lot of the variables that are really not going to showcasing, highlighting or revealing your unique abilities. And a lot of chiropractors and probably a lot of listeners take a look at what you're selling and how you're selling it and the experience they have from the moment they heard that you even exist on the planet, till they pay and beyond. Because at the end of the day, if they don't get you, if you don't get them and there isn't almost like an intimate relationship with your clients, I don't see it's hardly any different, different than a marriage. You have to have an intimate relationship with your customers and that takes a lot of effort and a lot of work. Way more communication and thinking than most people are willing to do. I like to look at my business as pretty much seamless. I don't think like I used to, eight years ago even. I don't Think in terms of lead generation, then lead conversion, then stick strategies and fulfillment and then relationship enhancement and ongoing communication. Communication. And then how do I deal with any cancels or people or customers or clients or patients that are inactive? They're just not implementing like they should. I try to do everything seamless now. My marketing and my product and what I do once. If they are slow implementers, it's all the same. There's no line of demarcation. You don't feel like when you're being sold. I think elegant marketing is when your customers and your prospects, they never feel like they're sold. They never feel like they're being lead generated. You have to be more elegant than that. And that doesn't happen from. It happens from observing. For me, it happened from watching other people and how they run their businesses. Guys like Joe and Dan. And now Dean's like, I'm Dean's like one of my new heroes now. I've only known about him for six months, but now I'm kind of like a raving fan of Dean Jackson. And so you need to be around people that have been through like, see, I have to relate to other marketers. Your clients have to be able to relate to you. And so everything is seamless and it's always about. It's experiential. You know, you have to provide the product and the marketing in a way that is different than putting some bait on the hook as a loss leader. Just to try to build a list and through an ascension model try to convert up to that top of that pyramid. Like we've all been taught nowadays, you have to be more giving regardless if they give you money or not. And that's how you build a lifetime value of a customer or patient. And it's so much cheaper. I'll close on this for now. It's so much cheaper to keep and profitable to keep a customer that you already have than it is to just replace them. But I think we all get that adrenaline rush getting a new client. But what are we really doing to maintain that relationship? Because we can all do more. And that's really where the profit is and where the fun is. And it's a lot cheaper than spending money on advertising.

Yeah, absolutely. Again, more great stuff. I love the whole concept of, of setting up your business so it's seamless knowing what you know now. I mean the years that you have spent learning this craft. I mean you're very, very good at a lot of things as it relates to marketing and you understand the power of Words and copy and messaging and.

All that sort of stuff.

What would you say if you were to do it over again? What are some big shifts that you would have either done or not done to move you closer to having success in your business? Or is some of this you just got to do your time?

I think it's both. It's kind of like I don't have kids, but it's kind of like trying to tell your kids as teenagers don't do that. I did that. And it's going to lead you to a path to nowhere. They have to go through it. So I think you have to put in the time. It takes years. But to answer your question, if I had to do things over again, of course you and I have gone through probably two or three generations of technology that either created opportunity or limited our abilities. But now based on what we have available today, I would use all sorts sources of media including everybody wants to save money on communication. So everybody's got kind of a hard on. Excuse me, for emails and Internet marketing. But what I've learned that pierces through all technology are the principles of marketing. And it's those principles like you teach here that will help you think accurately about where technology fits in. Because I believe technology is a little bit overrated. It's merely electrons and ways to communicate to people. I do to my doctors and they do to their patients. Not only emails, but direct mail, which is paper, ink and postage which to me is the cheapest. To me it's cheaper than the Internet when you factor in results and, and it's not perishable. So it's got a longer shelf life in terms of marketing message. But I like to telephone. I love faxes to my members. Every member gets a fax from us every morning. Every member gets an email from me five days a week. Same with my prospects that are not members yet. Same with any cancels. If we have a cancellation, I still don't, I don't just. I don't take them off my list. They will be communicated to five times a week forever. Not pitching them, just giving them value for free. So I think the short answer would be provide value in your marketing as a part of your marketing, not just talk about how great you are. It's a courtship. Create value. That way they are pre sold which is what marketing should do. It should pre qualify and pre sell as you know best Joe. And so it's all about providing value and being honorable, selling really good strategies that are effective. And I guess in closing is do as Much as you can for them, because to me, they don't want to become marketers. They want the end result, which may, whatever that looks like for them, Health, getting their marriage back, whatever it is, building their business, free time, mobility. So help be like Dan Kennedy talks about, you know, be there. I'm not sure if it's Dan, but be like a utility company. So create that relationship. Be a utility company where they almost can't live or be in business without you and make it fun and just be yourself, be transparent. I mean, you mentioned some nice compliments, but at the end of the day, if someone, if, you know, I'm also known for being pretty asocial. I've done a lot of seminars and I've done multimillion dollar events, three day boot camps. I've done some coaching for $40,000 per year for three year commitment. And I can do that stuff, but it's not pleasing to me. I don't prefer being in groups. I like being. I'm really good one on one. I'm like a black belt one on one. And I'm like a white belt in a group typically. But I can do it. I'm not fond of it. So find what your strengths are and build a model around your strengths so you are who you are and people can see that you're authentic. I think being authentic is key. I mean, Joe, me observing you, what you do is a perfect match in my opinion. Just from the outside looking in to your personality and your strengths and it goes back to that unique ability. And don't worry about the things you suck at. Build a business around what you, what you're passionate about. Provided that. Because I'm, I think passion is even a little overrated, provided that there's a demand for it in the marketplace. No, you're, you're, you're, you know, that.

Whole just what you're saying really resonates. We had Gary Vaynerchuk on one of our early episodes and you know, his big driving thing, which he kept continuing to say is you got to do what's in your DNA. You gotta be.

You are.

And that's just what you're saying is, you know, not everybody can be like somebody else. You know, you get the most success and there's lots of different ways to be successful. I mean, you talk about being asocial, but, you know, look at Dan Kennedy when we talk about him. There's probably nobody more a social than Dan. And he's been, yeah, true to his DNA for.

Absolutely. And he goes out of his way to repel clients, you know, or he goes out of his way to insult people. But he's, but he's smart, you know, and he attracts people that can tolerate him and that's the way he built his game. But the bottom line is, is even though I said that like, work on your strengths, if you're, if you're not careful, you can get come pretty reclusive and that's not healthy. And so I have, I have to force myself to leave Danville because I love my life. I haven't, you know, and so I have found by forcing myself to do what I don't want to do, which is we talk back to being discomfort uncomfortable sometimes you will find that you will, you will grow. And you know you will actually. So I don't, I don't buy my own bullshit, you know, Even though I have this story about myself, I know that a lot of it is bullshit and I don't know why I do it. We all do it, you know, with some people they call it a racket, you know. So I know I'm bullshitting myself. I know that I have the ability to do whatever I put my mind to it. I always have. And so be careful though, when you run a business or business model around just what you want to do, chances are you won't grow. You still need to grow. For example, I'll give you like a quick example. I was in 25k meeting like maybe a month ago, Joe. Right. I think it was a month or so and is my first 25k meeting for this year. And I took like a year and a half off or two years off of 25k. And there was a. There's a period of time where I really needed to some personal reasons. But now I'm back in 25k. And I was there for two days, took three pages of notes, which isn't a lot of notes, but all you need is like someone whisper in your ear one sentence and it can change your life. But I came home with three pages of notes. But what I left with also was a relationship with someone. I won't mention his name, but he was an attendee there. He's a member of 25k and he doesn't sell the same product, but he has kind of a similar. I don't know how you say it, kind of a similar dynamic in terms of how he relates to his client base. And so we got together for four hours. He happens to live near me and that relationship alone because of something I'VE never done. I've never been able to figure out how to do it, which is pre recorded webinars versus just a regular webinar to do it. I didn't have the technology to do it, so he helped me with that. And it's going to add easily millions of dollars in gross revenue in the next three years. Easily. Even if it takes me another six months to get all the technology. I just ordered a bunch of computers and some crazy stuff as a result. So the point is, just because you put yourself in a position of discomfort, usually the benefit you can get out of it may not be obvious. So when I go to 25k, there's no other chiropractic marketers there. And if there was, it wouldn't really matter. And there's a lot of people in different industries, but to be around people that think differently, it enabled me to say yes to an invitation. I'm going to be speaking at Joe's event in New York. The old days. I decline it just because it's like, you know, why would I want to do that? I don't like speaking in front of people. I know I can do it. It's not a problem. I just don't like doing it. Well, I'm doing it because I'm just. I think it's a good way to train yourself. Everybody listening has something they suck at and doesn't mean you have to become good at it. But still take that whole thing about don't only do what you want so far because there may be some things that can increase the sales of your business or your happiness or health or wisdom by exposing yourself into these areas that are typically, you know. So I guess what I'm saying is there's an art to it. There's an art. There's a point where saying no is not in your best interest and there's times when you need to. So maybe mix it up and diversify when you say yes and no. Just because I guarantee at the end of the day you'll be a better business person and probably more fulfilled as a result of it. So, you know, I still push myself. I'm still a student, you know, light school's never out for the pro. Yes, I have a great life, make lots of money, have great clients, have great reputation, but still at the end of the day, you need to be around like minded thinkers and there's not a lot of them out there. I don't have any close friends that I've known for a long time and I have Lots of friends here in the Bay Area. I don't have very many relatives that I can relate to when it comes to entrepreneurship and marketing. And so you have to go out of your way to meet these people. And what I have found, and I'm sure it's not just with Joe's group, but extremely high level at Joe's group of kinship, where if you're in Joe's 25k or you're an I love marketing fan, when you have that commonality with others, they automatically drop their egos. They're there to help you and everybody is there to serve. And so that's probably the most I got out of it. And my willingness to help others has always been high. So I've always been that type of person to do whatever I can to help others, regardless if there's any monetary gain on my end directly. Because sooner or later it all comes back.

That's an important thing too, Ben, because what we've found is the whole meetup group phenomenon that we've had with the I love marketing community, which is really what we're building. It's a community of like minded people all speaking the same vocabulary, centered around applying the eight profit activators to their business. And they're all meeting with people who have different experiences, different businesses, different approaches, different personalities. And the synergy of being in a group like that, you never know who you're going to, you know, learn that one idea that's like the rocket fuel for you.

Well, you know, I think I know Joe could relate to this and I'm sure you, Dean too, and most people. Listening is every big quantum leap I've had in my life. It's that whole thing about, you know, what is it? Luck is opportunity. And what's the other one?

Preparation.

What is it?

Opportunity.

Opportunity means preparation.

Yeah, exactly. So that's, that's the whole thing is you don't you, you can't get lucky if you just stay home all the time, you know, so the key I can. All of us listening can come up with at least three to five instances in your life that you met a specific person, that you heard something or you observed something and it totally changed. It was like rocket fuel to success. It totally changed the direction of your business or your perspective, which you determined was limiting your business. So you need to get out and meet people because that's where the opportunities are. The opportunities typically aren't with just the people you've known for a decade, friends and family, it's strangers. And there's a lot of strangers we don't want to be associated with. So to increase the probability of that exposure to be of value, the best way is where do accurate thinkers and successful people congregate and just go there?

There's a book, there's a book called the Luck Factor, and the author did a study on luck, and they found that people who consider themselves lucky tend to be more lucky because they put themselves in situations where luck can pay off. You know, they buy lottery tickets or they enter contests or they do things like that. And people who consider themselves unlucky don't do those things. And there's so many parallels what you're saying. It's like, you know, putting yourself out there and being in a place where you're more likely to bump into the person who's going to have the idea for you or be the connection that you need to add that rocket fuel. Yeah, let me.

Let me make a distinction too, because from observing Ben, I mean, you know, Ben definitely will do things that will put him out of his comfort zone because he knows how to get value for himself and for others out of the process. And at the same time, he doesn't waste time with it. Like, a lot of people will just endure suffering and they'll get nothing out of it. Meaning, like the whole no pain, no pain sort of thing is one approach. The other is like doing something that may, if you're introverted, but you put yourself out there, you're going to. If you do it intelligently and you strategically, you put critical, accurate thinking behind it. Yeah. You can get enormous results. I mean, the one line that you said, someone whispers in your ear, one sentence that will change your life. It's the ability to know where to put your ear, though, where to carry yourself to. A lot of people are just idiotic and they waste their time on stuff that not only are they no good at, that they don't enjoy doing, but they don't reap any rewards because they don't know how to. They don't know how to water, they don't know how to harvest. They don't look at it that way. I think as people listen to this, it's really picking up on that. It's knowing how to do it. And one thing before I forget, I never would have the relationship that I have with Richard Branson had I not known Ben. Because Ben actually was the one that called me up one day and I've talked about this. I don't know if you ever heard me on any of the Episodes where I talk about this Ben, where I tell the story of. Of how I met Richard Branson, is Ben called me up and invited me to a dinner that his buddy Mike Faith, a Guy who founded headsets.com was putting together and said, hey, you want to go to dinner with Richard Branson? And I'm like, what's the catch? And Ben's like, well, minimum $5,000 donation to his foundation, Virgin Unite. And I said, well, I'll give a $15,000 donation. I mean, it took me, like, 30 seconds, I think, to think of that one in my head. But, yeah, because of that, that's how I ended up developing and nurturing the relationship with Ben. So I have tremendous appreciation for that. And it's also, how many people could Ben have called up?

So that's how I operate.

That's how Ben operates. I mean, we just do it in different ways, but it's really looking. Luck comes into play, but only if you have the other parts of it there. There's a ton of people that are listening to this episode right now that are really lucky to hear some of the insights that Ben is saying. The difference is most people won't do anything with it, but the few that will, they can be lucky or they can just really say, oh, okay, this is going to cause me to make a decision or take an action or to implement something or to maybe learn something or to, you know, go do something that may be uncomfortable for many people, but I'm going to go do it because it's going to produce a result.

So, anyway, that's how I see it. Well, you know, to some degree, I think some people are just born to be successful, and some people almost born to, you know, struggle. They have this, like, black cloud. And if any of you listening just feel like Jeff Paul used to say, life is having a party and you're just never invited, then I urge you to start to get lucky. I think you need to first, you need to build your confidence. And I think I have a high level of confidence, probably more than I deserve. And most people don't even see it, because I don't really. I think I know how I occur to people, and I'm okay with it because I know my level of confidence is extremely high. And I stay in my lane. You know, I'm not trying to be Joe or Dean. I stay in my lane, and I. And I try to support other people's vision because I do live. And Joe's a master at this. As you know, that whole thing about you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. And that's just the way life works. And it's just the realities. Maybe not be the should be world, but that's just the real world. And so for you, if you don't feel like you're lucky, stop focusing on yourself and ask yourself, who do I already know that is successful, knows something I need to know and how can I help them in any way or at least minimally, don't be a pain in the ass to them because there's lots of people that come to me and they want help, but they're just so painful to be around because they have a victim mentality or they're so selfish that I just cannot, I don't feel the urge to help them. And on the other hand, I've helped strangers immensely. You know, 10, 20, 30 hours of my time for free, knowing that I'm never going to get reimbursed for it, but it was just a pleasure because I can just know I'm going to change their lives. And they were just like a hungry sponge. So I think be grateful is a big key to get lucky. Be grateful, be nice. Simple stuff. You know, your parents or your grandmother told you, be grateful, be nice, be appreciative, say thank you, help people, be generous, don't be cheap. It's just basic stuff. People make success so complicated. All you need to do is just be good person and, and that's pretty much really it. And you will attract people good, like people that have good intent to help. Others will pick up on it. And those are the kind of customers and clients you want anyway. You don't want to try to attract somebody that is deviant or is selfish or they're just going to be a, you know, time vampire and they're going to complain. They'll probably refund. And so draw your line. Know who you are and stick to who you are, but let people know who you are and then just be grateful and honorable. And another thing, if you already have a business but you feel like you've had an unlucky time in your business, I guarantee you've ignored your customers. I know we're changing subjects here, but ask yourself, what can I do for my customers for free? And maybe do simple strategy. Do give 12 things in six months of a nice gesture to your old customers without asking for money. Mail them something, shoot them an email or segment your list. If you can afford to spend some money, spend some money on your best people. Do something for these people without pitching them as an experiment for six months and watch how, quote, lucky you get. So really, success, I think is a byproduct. It's a symptom of not being so self absorbed and serving people by going, you know, I guess this is probably another good thing I learned this from my father is you got to go the extra mile, you know, give them more than you get. And it's really true. Go out of your way and be okay with getting screwed once in a while. You know, people are going to screw you and don't let, just let it go. I am so. I don't even know if I should be like this, but I have probably 10 people that collectively altogether owe me close to $2 million. And I know I'll never get the money. I'm not going to sue them. And I just let it go. So luck is all about letting go of the past. If not, you're just not focused on the moment. Also, I learned this from even the power of now through Eckhart Tolle talks about it, is don't focus on the future too much either. Focus on today, one day at a time, and live a balanced life without health, without good nutrition, without rest, I couldn't be successful. All that's important. And quality relationships. Absolutely.

Yeah.

I love it. Dean, is there anything you want to ask him related? Because I want to ask Ben about the topic of time management and maybe, maybe time management is not the right.

Word I wanted to draw out because he's mentioned a couple of times confidence and that you probably, like you said, have more confidence than you deserve was the word I think he used. But there's another. There's a book called Overachievement and it was written by a sports psychologist from Rice University in Houston. And he studied overachievers in lots of different fields. And the number one thing that he noticed and attributed to them was what he called irrational confidence. And I thought, you know, that's interesting because confidence is one of those things like who's to say how much confidence is rational, you know, and you think about it. Every great person, every person who you would point to as an overachiever is somebody who has a tremendous amount of confidence. You sense that in people. Our little buddy Joe Polish has a tremendous amount of confidence. And that's, you know, I think it has to start with that you have to believe in yourself like that.

Go ahead, Joe. No, no, no.

Yeah, I want to cut you off. I'll just say that like you said, Ben, you know, staying in your own lane, you know, I mean I'll have confidence in areas where I stay in my lane, but if I get out of it, it, you know, I very quickly could feel very, you know, like I don't know what the hell I'm doing. So yeah, I think there's, there's a lot there.

So.

So go ahead Ben.

You're saying believe in closing on this is you really have to look in the mirror and say do I, do I look happy? Do I look healthy? Do I look powerful? Do I look like I'm confident in my ability to. Do I have like a swagger? You know, I think that, you know, everybody has their own image and you don't have to be a Ken and Barbie looking person to succeed. You just need to rock your, your own vibe, you know, but fall in love with yourself. Invest in yourself. You know, spend money on personal training or, or image consulting or spend money at the spa or on vacation. I mean I've learned that if you don't. I think if someone else you interviewed it because I listen to all your I love marketing podcasts. I think was a woman you interviewed talked about how you need to. No, it was Arianna Huffington at last year's event in New York. She talks about how you need to recharge, you know, and we don't do that enough. Is just because I love marketing, everybody loves marketing. Doesn't mean you shouldn't decompress. You know, take two or three days off a week and do nothing related to marketing. Sometimes that's the easiest way to create a clear thinking mind that could actually identify opportunities and solutions. Is not be so too overly immersed in focusing on what's wrong in your business or in your life and just detach yourself emotionally and physically and mentally from anything that's on your mind and just relax. Be outdoors. Success is so much easier than failure. People only just adopt certain principles, simple principles and hang out with cool people that have the same values or at least get it. It's not difficult, you know, it really. It's kind of like, you know, when you're drunk. I mean I haven't been drunk in a while, but every once in a while, what the hell. But have you ever been drunk? You know, when I was. When you're single and you're drunk and you're in college maybe, and I apologize for any LDS listeners, but it's like you can do no wrong. You can say no wrong and it's just like, like you can be drunk. Program yourself to be drunk. Even when you're sober. You Know, it's just, it's all between your ears. So you, you can, you can just dial in that, that, that psycho radio, you know, you just dial into a certain frequency and create a new story about yourself. And, and just, of course, you have, can't just be superficial. You have to actually deliver the goods. But, you know, you got to put in the work and it takes time and don't be in a rush. Enjoy the process. Don't do it for the outcome. You know, don't do it because you want to be, make money. Do it because you want to help and you want to have a good. You want to enjoy your life every day because we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So just enjoy it. But do you have a question, Joe, about time management or comment? Yeah.

You have a process that I know you go through mentally and how you actually spend your time. But questions to ask before setting, saying yes. You have a way of thinking about the whole concept of before you obligate yourself to something. You know, questions to ask yourself before you agree to do something. Take something on that sort of stuff.

If I have. It depends on, okay, it depends on who's soliciting, who the person is that's, you know, giving me this, quote, opportunity. You know, what's their track record? We know a lot of people that their track record is not too good. Look at their reputation. Look at how they treat customers after the sale. Google them, learn about them. That's what my first filter is. Do I respect this person? If that's the case, then will they better serve my customers without. Without taking my customers? I mean, there's certain people I will not refer my business to because they might get distracted. And even if that product or service is awesome, if it's not related to their business of chiropractic, then why should they go out and learn how to invest in real estate? And I used to do that with JVs and that just stuff doesn't fly and then you end up getting lawsuits. And it's not usually between the joint venture people, not the clients. So I say no more than I say yes to opportunities. But the ones I say yes to are because it's congruent with my product. Actually, you know what, I have to be honest with you. I don't say yes to hardly anything when it comes to selling to my members. So I don't say yes to any of that. So can you give me an example? Like what kind of opportunities?

Well, no, I'm curious, Steven, like how you Spend your time. I mean, what are your methods for effectiveness and efficiency? Because you're also a guy that takes time off. You love to enjoy your life. So, I mean, you're very thoughtful about the work you take on, producing results that fit your unique abilities.

Anything that requires me, and I probably shouldn't do this, but this is the truth. It just hit me. Anything that requires me to put something on a calendar, I will usually say no to. If I have to put it on a calendar, I usually say no to it. Now, if I have to go to something a couple times a year, that's one thing. But if I have to put it on a calendar, typically if I can't handle it today on a phone call to see if I like it or not, I just don't like. I don't like commitment in terms of time. I like everything I do to be repurposed, if possible. So it's evergreen. If I put in the energy, like Dan Kennedy says, I can bank it, bank that experience. So I say no to perishable opportunities that don't have a tail on it, provided that that tail is tail. Meaning that there's more obligation provided that it doesn't serve both parties. There's no simple answer to that other than I try to create a business model that enables me to efficiently. It's got to be scalable, I guess is another way to say it. It can't be scalable. Ideally, delegate it to my staff. Because my value, my unique ability, is creating systems, processes, and serving my members. And I spend two hours a day serving my customers. I mean, I'm on the phone two hours a day with my clients on open line every day. And every couple months, I say, you know what? I can easily stop doing this. But every day that I do it, I'm going, gee, I can't stop. It's just too valuable to them. And so I do it well.

Yeah, we've talked about that too. And it in it, that's something that I personally, that doesn't fit my lane.

However, the way that you do it every day, Ben. Is that what you said?

I do it Monday through Thursday.

Monday through Thursday.

Every day.

Every Monday through Thursday.

Wow. Because I have such a great business, and my business is like almost brick and mortar, but it's not. I mean, it's such a great relationship with my customers that I'm happy to do it because, number one is its marketing, it's support, it's relationship enhancement all in one. It's so. But that's my. I built A business model around it. So it makes it work. And I don't mind it because I can be anywhere and be on my cell phone. I mean I was surfing in Lahaina, January this year and I had to get up five in the morning to make the call. I was up on the, at the beach, you know, watching the sun come up, doing my two hour calls. So, you know, I could be in my car. It doesn't tether me at all. It works for me. I'm not saying everybody should do it. I think you need to. There's a lot to consider. But it works with the way I deliver my product and what my product is.

Yeah, no, there's a big lesson in that. And I mean.

It doesn't need to be a phone call, but I think everybody should, should be, you know, we. For a while, everybody's averse to having a product or business that's personality dependent. But I think that that is the key to stability is, I mean look at people say, you know, the best way to do it is like be under the radar. They don't even know you exist and you're just cash checks. But who does that? You know, you take a performer like maybe, I don't know, the Rolling Stones or Celine Dion, you know, if they die, you have 150 people out of work, you know, and so they can't build a model that's not dependent on them. It just is what it is. So I think instead of building a model that's not personality based, I think oftentimes the best thing to do is build a model that is personality based. Then you're not a commodity and you like alike attracts like and people really know who you are. And there's no mystery in terms of what the identity, what the mission statement and what the core value is of the company. So I personally like to do that. I like to be part of the product. Yep, very cool.

So Dean, anything else you want to ask Ben before we wrap? Because what I'd like to do is basically there's a lot of people that listen to, I love marketing that I would imagine are in the chiropractic industry and with would benefit from Ben's business. So I'd like to have him, you know, basically about how to. Is there anything else you want to, you want to say or share? And if not we'll.

No, I think that's been. This has been great. Let's share how people can connect with Ben.

Well, I appreciate that. You know, first of all, if they're A chiropractor. They're on my list and I have certain funnels the way they become members. So I appreciate the offer but applied decline pitching my business. But I will tell you that if anybody has any question about what I talked about, you can just shoot me an email and I will answer it. I'm not looking for clients. I don't do one on one consulting anymore. So I'm not going to pitch you. Please just be cool about it. I cannot give you free consulting for life. But if you have one burning question, feel free to shoot me an email. I'll try to help you. If you join 25K, find out when I'm there if you think I'm of value to you. And when I'm there we'll spend two days together. So my email address is bendcdogcatol.com bendcl.com I'll spell my last name for you if you just want to get your itch scratched by googling me. Altadon is spelled A L, T aol D, O, N N A Altadonna. One word. A L, T A D, O N, N A. Just put that in Google. There's not a lot of Altadonnas out there. You'll find me. And I just want to thank you both for this opportunity. I hope it helped. Even if it helps one person solve their crisis they're going through. Then that's awesome. It was worth it.

Yeah, no, I thought it was great, Ben. Really. And thank you so much. Some fantastic wisdom here. This is one of these episodes where you certainly probably know someone in your life. And I'm talking to our listeners right now that could probably benefit from hearing this. So share this with any entrepreneur, any business owner successful or struggling that you think this could help get them on the right track. Because I think it can and will. And please give us your comments what you thought about this episode@ilovemarketing.com and yeah. Thank you, Ben. Thank you.

Thanks Dean. Thanks Joe.

Really good stuff. I have to also mention if you want to come to the New york event, check out 25kgroup.com. Ben will be speaking at this event and he will be doing an audience presentation. I think he's going to talk about why unique abilities require unique marketing. So that's the deal. Dean, take us out into the sunset.

It's all very exciting. I can't wait to see you in New York and it'll be an awesome time. Awesome.

Thanks everyone. And we'll be on the next episode of I Love Marketing.

Take care.

Bye Bye.

Thank you. Bye, guys.